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Xert Or TP?
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I tried to search and didn’t see anything

I need your help. I downloaded Xert and can’t figure it out.

It looks like the stats are all similar to TP. Anything new that I don’t get on TP? How do you use it? I see lots of metrics (and some old ones with new names) but not sure how to use.

I could see value in seeing different metrics on my Garmin but i have 810. Looks like the X20 are supported and not the X10 tho

It looks like Xert can control workouts (on my neo? On iPhone? On Mac?) but I can’t seem to figure out how to do that

Anyone switch from TP to Xert? Why?
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Re: Xert Or TP? [mvenneta] [ In reply to ]
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The Xert guys seem to have nailed down the algorithm but boy the web site simply sucks! I mean it just sucks! Awful. First question - are you a triathlete or a cyclist? If you are a triathlete hands down TP. Cyclist - when they sort the website out Xert - until then I could be persuaded either way.

Next question - coach or athlete? I could be persuaded either way for either option but Xert gives more in the way of how to train if you trust the outputs. So if you are an athlete with no idea what you are doing at least Xert gives you a path to follow. Coach might find it useful or might not depending how good they are at coaching!

He who understands the WHY, will understand the HOW.
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Re: Xert Or TP? [earthling] [ In reply to ]
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Cyclist athlete.

I’m not even sure how to link the workouts from the iOS app to my Neo. Can’t figure it out
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Re: Xert Or TP? [mvenneta] [ In reply to ]
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What is it that you hope to learn?

IOW, how might you change your training based on the analyses provided?
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Re: Xert Or TP? [mvenneta] [ In reply to ]
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WKO should also be in the mix. I can't really speak to WKO for multi-sport analysis - I felt like TP was really the best because I think there's not necessarily a good composite approach and the extra detail of WKO is likely to be more confusing rather than more helpful for multi-sport. But having switched now to training as a pure cyclist, I find WKO to be really great, not surprising since - at its core - it is (and always has been) a tool for cyclists training with a powermeter.

If I was to recommend someone a tool to do in-depth analysis - that is actually illustrative in terms of not only what you have done but also what you should do, WKO would be my pick.

"Non est ad astra mollis e terris via." - Seneca | rappstar.com | FB - Rappstar Racing | IG - @jordanrapp
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Re: Xert Or TP? [Andrew Coggan] [ In reply to ]
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Andrew Coggan wrote:
What is it that you hope to learn?

IOW, how might you change your training based on the analyses provided?

I am looking to become a stronger rider (measured at 5 and 20min intervals for simplicity). I do most of my training indoors. Pretty constrained to 7ish hours / week of riding so I can’t just ramp up distance or time like most

I know my relative strengths and weaknesses. Want to get on some sort of plan to see if I can raise fitness faster than just zwift racing 3x Days / week and the remaining time at 200w.

I’d give wko a shot but I spend 99% of my “screen” time on iPhone, can’t switch to something that requires me using laptop.
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Re: Xert Or TP? [mvenneta] [ In reply to ]
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mvenneta wrote:
Cyclist athlete.

I’m not even sure how to link the workouts from the iOS app to my Neo. Can’t figure it out

Xert iOS workout player currently will only support Wahoo as it is using their BT protocol for controlling the trainer. If you have a newer Garmin Edge there is a Xert workout player CIQ app.
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Re: Xert Or TP? [SummitAK] [ In reply to ]
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So if I have 810 and Neo, no ability to use Xert?

How about using Mac?
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Re: Xert Or TP? [mvenneta] [ In reply to ]
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mvenneta wrote:
So if I have 810 and Neo, no ability to use Xert?

How about using Mac?

No way to use 810 to run Xert with Neo.

There is no Xert computer app for Mac or Win. Either would run Xert remote player from web in sync with workout player from a supported platform. Right now I think that is Garmin CIQ, Android and iOS (Wahoo trainer control only).

You can export any workout as an ERG or TCX file and run it using another app. I do this to run them thru PerfPRO. Downside is you can't use the SMART workouts.
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Re: Xert Or TP? [Rappstar] [ In reply to ]
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Rappstar wrote:
WKO should also be in the mix. I can't really speak to WKO for multi-sport analysis - I felt like TP was really the best because I think there's not necessarily a good composite approach and the extra detail of WKO is likely to be more confusing rather than more helpful for multi-sport. But having switched now to training as a pure cyclist, I find WKO to be really great, not surprising since - at its core - it is (and always has been) a tool for cyclists training with a powermeter.

If I was to recommend someone a tool to do in-depth analysis - that is actually illustrative in terms of not only what you have done but also what you should do, WKO would be my pick.

Xert and WKO aren't really comparable. WKO is a great analysis tool for coaches and advanced athletes. Reporting lets you slice-and-dice data in a variety of ways.

Xert on the other hand is more of an end-to-end analysis and training platform. It analyzes data to determine the relationship your fitness (think FTP, 2 minute power, max power) has with your historical training, takes this information and recommends workouts/training targets based on your target event, runs workouts for you on your trainer auto adjusting targets/durations based on your specific fitness, shows you how your workouts/activities are tracking towards your goals and then helps you see how you are performing in real-time, monitoring your improvements and performance as they occur on our 8 Garmin ConnectIQ apps.

With our open API, 3rd party apps can query our data and metrics to provide advanced analysis and post-hoc reporting. GoldenCheetah, which is more comparable to WKO, have already initiated an integration with Xert.

Armando Mastracci, Founder of Xert, an advanced data analytics and training platform. Blog, Podcasts
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Re: Xert Or TP? [xert] [ In reply to ]
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xert wrote:
With our open API, 3rd party apps can query our data and metrics to provide advanced analysis and post-hoc reporting. GoldenCheetah, which is more comparable to WKO, have already initiated an integration with Xert.

This is a very important consideration IMO. TP removed access to their API some time ago citing security concerns IIRC. Now a year later they are a walled garden, happily collecting your data from different sources but offering no way of getting at it via APIs (except to their $$$ products).

I asked very recently if they had any intention of opening up their API again and they do not.

Beware vendor lock-in.
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Re: Xert Or TP? [liversedge] [ In reply to ]
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I'd add that almost all the other major online endurance sports sites offer APIs covering all user data, in the last 12 months we've integrated GoldenCheetah with:

- SportTracks.mobi
- Sixcycle
- Today's Plan
- Strava
- Cycling Analytics
- Xert

.. and support a total of 16 different cloud services.

Being open and playing well with others is table stakes these days, all the old proprietary and secret protocols have largely died (or vendors have gone bust refusing to adapt) to be replaced with open and transparent ones.

Mark
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Re: Xert Or TP? [earthling] [ In reply to ]
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earthling wrote:
The Xert guys seem to have nailed down the algorithm but boy the web site simply sucks! I mean it just sucks! Awful. First question - are you a triathlete or a cyclist? If you are a triathlete hands down TP. Cyclist - when they sort the website out Xert - until then I could be persuaded either way.


I believe you may be underestimating the complexity of the calculations that are being made the moment the login page is generated. The majority of the data on your login screen is calculated to the second, on-the-fly. This is rather different than other platforms out there.

Armando Mastracci, Founder of Xert, an advanced data analytics and training platform. Blog, Podcasts
Last edited by: xert: Mar 9, 18 7:58
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Re: Xert Or TP? [mvenneta] [ In reply to ]
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My TP Premium account just expired recently and I'm thinking of going back to Xert.

My only concern is that I'll be going back to mountain biking in a few months and I don't have a power meter on that bike. I'll still be riding on the road a few times a week but I would think it would throw off their training recommendations.
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Re: Xert Or TP? [xert] [ In reply to ]
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Armando - can I do what you described with iPhone / Neo (inside) or 810 (outside)?

I love the concept, but I cant seem to make it work with the hardware I have.
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Re: Xert Or TP? [mvenneta] [ In reply to ]
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TP is basic, and wont ever compare to Xert in its current or future form but WKO and Golden Cheetah does.

Comes down to what you would prefer to use, for many GC isnt as user friendly but its nice. Xert has done some great stuff, if your a cyclist and willing to take to the time to learn how to use properly thats best bet but some like certain features of some which is where people get drawed to specific software. For planning I have always loved TP online but its shit for getting into the details. Each have a list of drawbacks I would try them all then decide since you can try all for 14-30 days free.
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Re: Xert Or TP? [mvenneta] [ In reply to ]
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mvenneta wrote:
Armando - can I do what you described with iPhone / Neo (inside) or 810 (outside)?

I love the concept, but I cant seem to make it work with the hardware I have.

Xert has a very broad feature set. We have many that use it solely for tracking their fitness, analyzing rides and planning their calendar. This can be done from pretty much anything that has a browser, including the iPhone. (We have many users that use our web mobile app).

To do Xert's smart workouts with trainer control, you will need to run one of our players. Unfortunately, as you point out, the Neo in trainer control mode isn't supported on our iOS app. To run the workouts in trainer control mode with the Neo, you need either an Android device or a ConnectIQ compatible Garmin. Android devices are pretty cheap these days and using a ANT+ stick with an USB OTG adapter, you'll have support for the Neo. Of course, you can always perform the workouts without trainer control. In fact, the dynamic intervals help you achieve the goals of the workout even if you to hit targets precisely. Many though are opting to use a Garmin ConnectIQ bike computer. The benefit of using these is that you can perform our workouts on the Garmin but also get the benefit of all the other 7 apps we have that you can use with a trainer/power meter when you're out riding (not sure if you ride with a power meter during the season or not). These apps provide a lot of unique feedback about how you are performing in real-time and many of our users love riding with them. Some have even won races riding with them.

Armando Mastracci, Founder of Xert, an advanced data analytics and training platform. Blog, Podcasts
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Re: Xert Or TP? [jaretj] [ In reply to ]
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jaretj wrote:
My TP Premium account just expired recently and I'm thinking of going back to Xert.

My only concern is that I'll be going back to mountain biking in a few months and I don't have a power meter on that bike. I'll still be riding on the road a few times a week but I would think it would throw off their training recommendations.

There have had some good posts on using Xert for MTB on our FB group. Top MTB coaches will often provide feedback and comments there. We've added an FAQ on how to maintain your data current with activities without a power meter. We've also added an FAQ on how to choose your athlete type for non road racing, such as for MTB or running.

Have a look at those and let us know if these can work for you.

Armando Mastracci, Founder of Xert, an advanced data analytics and training platform. Blog, Podcasts
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Re: Xert Or TP? [xert] [ In reply to ]
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xert wrote:
jaretj wrote:
My TP Premium account just expired recently and I'm thinking of going back to Xert.

My only concern is that I'll be going back to mountain biking in a few months and I don't have a power meter on that bike. I'll still be riding on the road a few times a week but I would think it would throw off their training recommendations.

There have had some good posts on using Xert for MTB on our FB group. Top MTB coaches will often provide feedback and comments there. We've added an FAQ on how to maintain your data current with activities without a power meter. We've also added an FAQ on how to choose your athlete type for non road racing, such as for MTB or running.

Have a look at those and let us know if these can work for you.

Thanks so much for your help. I'll look it up.

jaretj
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Re: Xert Or TP? [mvenneta] [ In reply to ]
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Another option to consider is todays plan, lots of nice features for a dedicated cyclist. Now granted i primarily use training peaks ( occasionally wko) but i enjoy some of the cycling specific features of todays plan.
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Re: Xert Or TP? [xert] [ In reply to ]
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xert wrote:
earthling wrote:
The Xert guys seem to have nailed down the algorithm but boy the web site simply sucks! I mean it just sucks! Awful. First question - are you a triathlete or a cyclist? If you are a triathlete hands down TP. Cyclist - when they sort the website out Xert - until then I could be persuaded either way.


I believe you may be underestimating the complexity of the calculations that are being made the moment the login page is generated. The majority of the data on your login screen is calculated to the second, on-the-fly. This is rather different than other platforms out there.

I am not underestimating anything. Your website is dire.

Instead of the 'I believe you may be underestimating.......' approach, you would come across far better if you went for something like -

"Thanks for the post, any chance of some feedback so we know where to improve our dire website? Thanks"

He who understands the WHY, will understand the HOW.
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Re: Xert Or TP? [earthling] [ In reply to ]
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earthling wrote:
xert wrote:
earthling wrote:
The Xert guys seem to have nailed down the algorithm but boy the web site simply sucks! I mean it just sucks! Awful. First question - are you a triathlete or a cyclist? If you are a triathlete hands down TP. Cyclist - when they sort the website out Xert - until then I could be persuaded either way.


I believe you may be underestimating the complexity of the calculations that are being made the moment the login page is generated. The majority of the data on your login screen is calculated to the second, on-the-fly. This is rather different than other platforms out there.


I am not underestimating anything. Your website is dire.

Instead of the 'I believe you may be underestimating.......' approach, you would come across far better if you went for something like -

"Thanks for the post, any chance of some feedback so we know where to improve our dire website? Thanks"

Totally share your view. I've tried XERT for a couple of months. Not too impressed. Yes, the MPA algorithms seems to work but so does the CP model in Golden Cheetah for free. XERT is just more black box which has its advantages and disadvantages.

But the website is really not that great. Navigation through your activities is really cumbersome. Actually, apart from fitness signature analysis I don't really see any analysis options. Summary for periods and so. Or perhaps this is implemented in the meantime. I've used in on several computers with different browsers and it was always sort of slow. Custimization of the UI is not possible. Simply put, apart from looking at these breakthrough efforts and the change of my fitness signature I did not have any use for XERT. I got the same information out of Golden Cheetah for free + a lot of advanced (and basic) analysis features.

And the documentation sucks big time. Big time. A lot of useful information is buried on their facebook homepage.

The remote player is really cool though. Good job.

And yes, "they" are a little sensitive with regards to criticism. I've noticed that as well.
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Re: Xert Or TP? [xert] [ In reply to ]
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Does Xert have an app for Garmin IQ that will show MPA live while riding outdoors?

BoulderCyclingCoach.com
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Re: Xert Or TP? [rockdude] [ In reply to ]
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It sure does. The xert Garmin iq apps are the main reason I am using xert
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Re: Xert Or TP? [rockdude] [ In reply to ]
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