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The beginning of a new era of bipartisanship?
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Ok, probably not. However, the meeting hosted earlier today by Trump that also allowed reporters in was impressive in that, if nothing else, there seemed to be a genuine effort by both sides, as well as Trump, to find bipartisan agreement to avoid a government shutdown.

Trying not to be too cynical, no doubt the fact that the media were present in the room would have helped and kept people on their best behaviour, but it does seem there are members of both parties looking for a win here.

The fact that 86% of Americans support a solution to the DACA issue is clearly helpful in this process, and it seems that Trump wants to post a 'win' on this issue. It even looks like he will be willing to make significant compromises from his initial position on the border wall (i.e. not demand $18bn in funding for it).

We shall see, but I believe that:

a) a deal will be reached avoiding a government shutdown, finding a permanent solution for Dreamers, ending chain migration, instituting some measures for border security (but not huge funding for a physical wall), ending the immigration lottery system, introducing a merit-based system.

b) Trump deserves some credit for this, if it happens.

Why is Trump doing this now (i.e. willing to give ground on the wall)?

I think for two reasons:

1. Mid-term elections. The Republicans know a government shutdown would potentially hurt the party's image, which would give the Democrats ammunition ahead of the mid-terms. A failure to solve the DACA issue now could also hurt their overall popularity.

2. I think Trump is tired. Tired of fighting, tired of low poll numbers, tired of being the bad guy to two thirds of the country. He likes winning, and he sees the DACA issue as an easy win. He will get something for border security and will hope for more in the future, but the wall was one of Bannon's big issues and we know what happened with Bannon.

So let's see what happens. Consistent bipartisanship is clearly not something we'll see in an election year, but as I said, I have to give Trump credit for his efforts today.

Yours,
Trump Ball Washer
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Re: The beginning of a new era of bipartisanship? [Kay Serrar] [ In reply to ]
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So are they salty and schweddy?

Kay Serrar wrote:

Ok, probably not. However, the meeting hosted earlier today by Trump that also allowed reporters in was impressive in that, if nothing else, there seemed to be a genuine effort by both sides, as well as Trump, to find bipartisan agreement to avoid a government shutdown.

Trying not to be too cynical, no doubt the fact that the media were present in the room would have helped and kept people on their best behaviour, but it does seem there are members of both parties looking for a win here.

The fact that 86% of Americans support a solution to the DACA issue is clearly helpful in this process, and it seems that Trump wants to post a 'win' on this issue. It even looks like he will be willing to make significant compromises from his initial position on the border wall (i.e. not demand $18bn in funding for it).

We shall see, but I believe that:

a) a deal will be reached avoiding a government shutdown, finding a permanent solution for Dreamers, ending chain migration, instituting some measures for border security (but not huge funding for a physical wall), ending the immigration lottery system, introducing a merit-based system.

b) Trump deserves some credit for this, if it happens.

Why is Trump doing this now (i.e. willing to give ground on the wall)?

I think for two reasons:

1. Mid-term elections. The Republicans know a government shutdown would potentially hurt the party's image, which would give the Democrats ammunition ahead of the mid-terms. A failure to solve the DACA issue now could also hurt their overall popularity.

2. I think Trump is tired. Tired of fighting, tired of low poll numbers, tired of being the bad guy to two thirds of the country. He likes winning, and he sees the DACA issue as an easy win. He will get something for border security and will hope for more in the future, but the wall was one of Bannon's big issues and we know what happened with Bannon.

So let's see what happens. Consistent bipartisanship is clearly not something we'll see in an election year, but as I said, I have to give Trump credit for his efforts today.

Yours,
Trump Ball Washer
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Re: The beginning of a new era of bipartisanship? [MidwestRoadie] [ In reply to ]
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MidwestRoadie wrote:
So are they salty and schweddy?

You betcha!
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Re: The beginning of a new era of bipartisanship? [Kay Serrar] [ In reply to ]
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The fact that 86% of Americans support a solution to the DACA issue is clearly helpful in this process,

Actually, the number appears to have dropped to 77%, and the number of DACA supporters who really care about the issue is in the low 20's, and most of them would find the compromises that have been floated to be unacceptable. The opponents remain fiercely opposed. Good luck!
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Re: The beginning of a new era of bipartisanship? [oldandslow] [ In reply to ]
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oldandslow wrote:
Quote:

The fact that 86% of Americans support a solution to the DACA issue is clearly helpful in this process,


Actually, the number appears to have dropped to 77%, and the number of DACA supporters who really care about the issue is in the low 20's, and most of them would find the compromises that have been floated to be unacceptable. The opponents remain fiercely opposed. Good luck!
So they're obstructionists then, right? They're the ones who should be getting heat for a potential government shutdown, like the Tea Party when they wouldn't compromise on spending cuts.

I find it interesting that when Democrats are in power and the minority party is holding the debt ceiling vote as leverage that they're obstructionists, but when Reps are in power and the minority party is holding the debt ceiling vote as leverage...it's actually the majority party being blamed. I always get a chuckle over these nuances in how most of this is reported on.
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Re: The beginning of a new era of bipartisanship? [Brownie28] [ In reply to ]
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There are partisans, on both sides. If you wish to call folks something else, go ahead.
Last edited by: oldandslow: Jan 9, 18 12:47
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Re: The beginning of a new era of bipartisanship? [Kay Serrar] [ In reply to ]
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There are a few other motivations that should be considered:

a) Absent going nuclear, the GOP is out of opportunities to get things done in the Senate without some outside participation; and
b) It keeps the GOP on their toes, sending a message that he will partner with the otherside if they (the GOP) don't get in line on other fronts.

Avoiding a government shutdown is important to their midterm prospects, but a DACA deal is more about not doing more harm to those prospects than it is to helping them.
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Re: The beginning of a new era of bipartisanship? [Kay Serrar] [ In reply to ]
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GA rep John Lewis thinks so...
WASHINGTON —
President Donald Trump created Georgia’s first national historic park on Monday evening, signing into law a bill upping federal protections for the Martin Luther King Jr. National Historic Site near downtown Atlanta.
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The bill signing came with little fanfare or advance notice. Alveda King, a vocal Trump ally, was present for the quick ceremony, which came a week ahead of Martin Luther King Jr. Day.
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“I am so proud that we were able to work in a bipartisan, bicameral manner to establish Georgia’s first National Historical Park in Dr. King’s name and legacy before what would be his 89th birthday and the 50th anniversary of his tragic assassination,” Lewis said.
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https://www.myajc.com/news/state--regional-govt--politics/trump-sign-bill-upgrading-atlanta-mlk-site/78bAJzfZYkhrwXeUvcWkOJ/
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Re: The beginning of a new era of bipartisanship? [oldandslow] [ In reply to ]
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oldandslow wrote:
There are partisans, on both sides. If you wish to call folks something else, go ahead.

Oh sure, no doubt. Just wanted to make sure that people recognize this for what it is. Because four or five years ago this exact same scenario played out with fringe Republican being labeled obstructionists who were holding the country hostage and totally unwilling to compromise. Meanwhile you don't hear too many people blaming Democrats right now for doing the same with DACA.
Last edited by: Brownie28: Jan 9, 18 14:12
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Re: The beginning of a new era of bipartisanship? [Kay Serrar] [ In reply to ]
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We shall see, but I believe that:

a) a deal will be reached avoiding a government shutdown, finding a permanent solution for Dreamers, ending chain migration, instituting some measures for border security (but not huge funding for a physical wall), ending the immigration lottery system, introducing a merit-based system.

How is that "belief" thing working for you right now?


http://www.cnn.com/2018/01/11/politics/daca-deal-obstacles-flake-white-house/index.html
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Re: The beginning of a new era of bipartisanship? [oldandslow] [ In reply to ]
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oldandslow wrote:
Quote:
We shall see, but I believe that:

a) a deal will be reached avoiding a government shutdown, finding a permanent solution for Dreamers, ending chain migration, instituting some measures for border security (but not huge funding for a physical wall), ending the immigration lottery system, introducing a merit-based system.

How is that "belief" thing working for you right now?


http://www.cnn.com/2018/01/11/politics/daca-deal-obstacles-flake-white-house/index.html

Well it seems that when Trump said on Tuesday that he would sign any bill that the bipartisan group put before him, it's possible he lied. But then he said so many contradictory things at that meeting that it's hard to know what his position is on these issues.

I still think a deal is reached. There is bipartisan support for a DACA fix. There is bipartisan support for more border security (no-one at this point is looking for a complete bricks and mortar wall, save some conservative radio pundits), and there is bipartisan support to address chain migration and end the lottery program. And no-one wants to be blamed for a government shutdown.

The Dems have the advantage I think. They know there quarters of the country supports a DACA fix, and the Pubs have majorities in both houses. Reading Trump is hard though. Steven Miller is the hard liner on immigration and could yet scupper a deal, but on balance I still think Congress forces Trump's hand by coming up with a bipartisan deal he can't not sign.

His base may get upset at the lack of a bricks and mortar wall, but many of them never took that literally anyway. It was just a metaphor for immigration reform. we'll see...
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Re: The beginning of a new era of bipartisanship? [Kay Serrar] [ In reply to ]
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It’s lookinf like Trump steps up to minimum presidential standards whenever he’s labeled as unfit, unstable or stupid. We just need to schedule this about once a week, maybe take turns.
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Re: The beginning of a new era of bipartisanship? [Kay Serrar] [ In reply to ]
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I still think a deal is reached. There is bipartisan support for a DACA fix. There is bipartisan support for more border security (no-one at this point is looking for a complete bricks and mortar wall, save some conservative radio pundits), and there is bipartisan support to address chain migration and end the lottery program. And no-one wants to be blamed for a government shutdown.
....
We'll see...


Yes, we will. You have made the same point before, while ignoring the reality that barely 1/4 of voters really care deeply about the issue, and those that do are more extreme ends of the political spectrum, which have become numerically much larger. This leads to the major issue of...

Self-Preservation. Keeping your party in the majority is a very distant second compared to the imperative of personally getting re-elected. While there are a handful of "purple" districts, over 90% of districts are reliably one color. Especially for the GOP, the only challenge to job security is avoiding getting primaried (that, and sex with a minor). Immigration/abortion/guns are wedge issues that are career-enders for those who would dare to compromise. I remain skeptical of your logic until you can address this reality. All action on this issue is in the Senate. The House (with its gerrymandering and the Hastert Rule) is nearly impossible to move, given the basic Darwinian imperative of self-preservation and the historic partisanship of voters. For a depressing article on this partisanship (by county). read this article:

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/purple-america-has-all-but-disappeared/


(Never mind the "shithole" comment).


Last edited by: oldandslow: Jan 11, 18 23:47
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