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Typical AGer FTPs?
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So I just measured my FTP - I scored 206 (or 2.65W/kg).

I'm a M55-59 AGer.

Is 206 good or bad?!

(By the way, I measured it with the 20 min test on TrainerRoad with my smart trainer)
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Re: Typical AGer FTPs? [smallard] [ In reply to ]
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smallard wrote:

So I just measured my FTP - I scored 206 (or 2.65W/kg).

I'm a M55-59 AGer.

Is 206 good or bad?!

(By the way, I measured it with the 20 min test on TrainerRoad with my smart trainer)

M55-59 with an FTP of 230 (3.19 W/kg) based on the TR 20 minute test.
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Re: Typical AGer FTPs? [smallard] [ In reply to ]
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I’m 50-54 at 280.

I’m also heavy at 180 lbs., so I am 3.4 W/kg.
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Re: Typical AGer FTPs? [smallard] [ In reply to ]
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Re: Typical AGer FTPs? [nickwhite] [ In reply to ]
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Good data Nick, thanks. So I guess I'm a cat 5 bike racer!

Wonder how I would stack up against other M55-59s in an IronMan?
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Re: Typical AGer FTPs? [smallard] [ In reply to ]
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smallard wrote:
Good data Nick, thanks. So I guess I'm a cat 5 bike racer!

Wonder how I would stack up against other M55-59s in an IronMan?

Well, besides virtually.....there's one way to find out.
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Re: Typical AGer FTPs? [smallard] [ In reply to ]
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I'm in your AG. I last did the TR 20 min FTP test back in May and was around 275watts. That's with a racing weight of 72kg, so 3.8w/kg

I'm much lower now as been off the bike for 8 weeks...
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Re: Typical AGer FTPs? [HandHeartCrown] [ In reply to ]
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Quote:
M55-59 with an FTP of 230 (3.19 W/kg) based on the TR 20 minute test.


we're twinlets!

M55-59 with current FTP of 230w (by multiple 5 and 20 minute tests throughout the year) and ~3.2 W/kg



My peak last year was ~240w during racing season last year but I usually lose 20 watts due to winter inactivity

(For reference, my current national USAT ranking is 222/1822 in this AG. I'm usually top 10% on the bike though.
And raced IMLP with 11:52:xx and a 5:48:xx bike in 2016)

The nice thing about having a somewhat low FTP is that there is a lot of low hanging fruit with consistent training.
Tougher when older, though, as I'm sure you know.


Good luck in training!
Last edited by: dtoce: Dec 27, 17 11:44
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Re: Typical AGer FTPs? [smallard] [ In reply to ]
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Front of pack age group males have FTPs from the mid high 200s to the low 300s. Call it 270-320 would cover 95% of athletes we call "awesome" on the bike.

Front of pack females are 175 - 225 or so.

Very large or small athletes are going to be a bit higher or lower, respectively.

At those power ranges, riders of average size and excellent position and equipment choices will be close to fastest or at least top 5 bike splits in the vast majority of local races. They will have one of the top age group splits at regional races, and in the high end of the range, they could have one of the top bike splits in their age group at events like Olympic distance and sprint nationals.

On the lower end, most males can get to 175 watts and most females to 125, unless they are very small, very old, or did very, very poorly in the genetic lottery. Combinations of those things will obviously work against you as well.

As you get older, of course, these numbers go down. Roughly to the extent that VO2 max declines with age.

So is 206 good or bad? Well, it depends on an awful lot, but I'd call it ok. If that is the highest you can achieve with extensive proper training, you did not win the genetic lottery.
Last edited by: FindinFreestyle: Dec 27, 17 12:06
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Re: Typical AGer FTPs? [FindinFreestyle] [ In reply to ]
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FindinFreestyle wrote:
Front of pack age group males have FTPs from the mid high 200s to the low 300s. Call it 270-320 would cover 95% of athletes we call "awesome" on the bike.

Front of pack females are 175 - 225 or so.

Very large or small athletes are going to be a bit higher or lower, respectively.

At those power ranges, riders of average size and excellent position and equipment choices will be close to fastest or at least top 5 bike splits in the vast majority of local races. They will have one of the top age group splits at regional races, and in the high end of the range, they could have one of the top bike splits in their age group at events like Olympic distance and sprint nationals.

As you get older, of course, these numbers go down. Roughly to the extent that VO2 max declines with age.

So is 206 good or bad? Well, it depends on an awful lot, but I'd call it ok. If that is the highest you can achieve with extensive proper training, you did not win the genetic lottery.


You've hit on the 3 most important additional information needed when discussing FTP-age, sex, weight.
Last edited by: dtoce: Dec 27, 17 12:13
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Re: Typical AGer FTPs? [smallard] [ In reply to ]
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Based on your question, I venture to guess that was your first power test and you are new to trainerroad and/or training with power. Forgive me if I am wrong, but if those assumptions are correct, you are poised for a big bump in FTP. First, there is a sharp learning curve to those tests. Your second, third, and fourth test will likely see an increase simply due to having more experience in performing the actual test. Second, if you are new to training with power you are likely to see a lot of increase in the near term from doing well structured training.

Is 2.65 W/kg good or bad? Hard to say, but I am guessing that the front of the pack in your AG at an IM is likely going to be at about 4 w/kg give or take. If you are indeed new to power training and you stick with a trainerroad plan, I would not be surprised to see you decently over 3 w/kg before springtime.
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Re: Typical AGer FTPs? [smallard] [ In reply to ]
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FTP? useless measure.

@floathammerholdon | @partners_in_tri
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Re: Typical AGer FTPs? [smallard] [ In reply to ]
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Regarding the genetics that folks are talking about, the following is from 23andme.com. I do not have this marker myself, and my FTP is slightly lower than the OP.

This report is based on a genetic marker in the ACTN3 gene. This marker controls whether muscle cells produce a protein(called alpha-actinin-3) that's found in fast-twitch muscle fibers. While some people don't produce this protein at all, almost all of the elite power athletes who have been studied have a genetic variant that allows them to produce the protein. This suggests that the protein may be beneficial at least at the highest levels of power-based athletic competition.

Most of the elite power athletes who have been studied have a genetic variant that allows them to produce the alpha-actinin-3 protein in their muscles. Does that mean that people who don't produce this protein are more likely to be endurance athletes? Studies in mice suggest that the answer may be yes: young mice who don't make any of this protein are able to run farther without getting tired. But studies in humans have not consistently shown an endurance advantage for people who don't produce the alpha-actinin-3 protein.

Differences in the genetic marker used in this report may only explain about 2-3% of the difference in muscle performance between different people. In elite athletes who work intensely to reach the upper limits of their potential, that 2-3% may mean the difference between qualifying for the Olympics and missing the cut. But for the rest of us, the choices we make about how to train will far outweigh the contribution of our genetic result at this marker.
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Re: Typical AGer FTPs? [smallard] [ In reply to ]
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smallard wrote:
Good data Nick, thanks. So I guess I'm a cat 5 bike racer!

1. Thank you.

2. As I wrote when I introduced the chart way back in 2002 or 2003, the only way to really know how good of a racer you are is go and race.

ETA 3. Note that the power profile charts have been made obsolete by the power-duration profiling and objective (i.e., statistically-based) autophenotyping that I developed for WKO4.
Last edited by: Andrew Coggan: Dec 27, 17 13:04
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Re: Typical AGer FTPs? [smallard] [ In reply to ]
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4.4 w/kg as a lower level pro here. Glad to see I stack up to some cat 2 talent though!

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
New Training/Racing Log - http://www.earthdaykid.com/blog --- Old Training/Racing Log - http://colinlaughery.blogspot.com
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Re: Typical AGer FTPs? [smallard] [ In reply to ]
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52 and just getting back to racing after 10 years away (never stopped working out), hoping to do an IM this summer, currently at about 3.5 w/kg hoping to get to 3.9 by race season, FWIW I used to be front of the pack IM AG at around 4 W/KG
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Re: Typical AGer FTPs? [pokey] [ In reply to ]
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OP here with another thought: I'm really interested in how my bike performance might shape up in IMAZ 2018 (which will be my first IM).

So I used BestBikeSplit to predict my time. Entered the course profile, my data (FTP, weight), some info on my bike (weight, aerodynamics etc) then made some assumptions about the weather (e.g that course is usually quite windy).

Then I guess there's a rule of thumb that you race the IM bike leg at about 70% of your FTP (so in my case, about 144W).

Press the button and BBS kicks out an estimated finish time of about 6 hours. Add in ~15 mins to cover rest stops etc then compare my result with the IMAZ 2017 results.

Seems I would be at about the 30th percentile.

Accurate? Who knows. I'll tell you 11 months time :-)
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Re: Typical AGer FTPs? [FindinFreestyle] [ In reply to ]
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FindinFreestyle wrote:
Front of pack females are 175 - 225 or so.

i think you're under selling the FOP ladies.
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Re: Typical AGer FTPs? [smallard] [ In reply to ]
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smallard wrote:
OP here with another thought: I'm really interested in how my bike performance might shape up in IMAZ 2018 (which will be my first IM).

So I used BestBikeSplit to predict my time. Entered the course profile, my data (FTP, weight), some info on my bike (weight, aerodynamics etc) then made some assumptions about the weather (e.g that course is usually quite windy).

Then I guess there's a rule of thumb that you race the IM bike leg at about 70% of your FTP (so in my case, about 144W).

Press the button and BBS kicks out an estimated finish time of about 6 hours. Add in ~15 mins to cover rest stops etc then compare my result with the IMAZ 2017 results.

Seems I would be at about the 30th percentile.

Accurate? Who knows. I'll tell you 11 months time :-)

I wish you best in your journey in training and on race day at IMAZ. It is a course where you can do well if you can keep yourself in aero position and crank out the miles. BBS doesn't account for 15 minutes of rest stop craziness! You will crack sub 6 hours if you are even reasonably trained.

I use 75% of FTP for IM racing.

Again, I wish you luck.
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Re: Typical AGer FTPs? [colinlaughery] [ In reply to ]
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colinlaughery wrote:
4.4 w/kg as a lower level pro here. Glad to see I stack up to some cat 2 talent though!

You likely don’t stack up too well to your average cat.2 road racer having just a similar w/kg. As I’m sure you’re aware the power profile of a triathlete is likely much different and not conducive to road racing - not to mention race experience and tactics!

_______________________________________________
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Re: Typical AGer FTPs? [dtoce] [ In reply to ]
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Thanks dtoce.

And I have 11 months of training between now and the race :-)
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Re: Typical AGer FTPs? [smallard] [ In reply to ]
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My FTP in the lead up to key races is 320. Normal training...I test between 300-320watts using the 20-minute protocol with the 25 minute warm-up leading to the test itself. I'm 75kg, 180cm. Kona bike split 5:12 on 210watts NP.

So what I take away from this is that either I was a huge slacker on the bike (I felt controlled and working, but certainly not all out) or that a FTP number derived from a 20 minute test is not going to tell you everything you need to know about riding a 180km bike split. I suspect the truth is somewhere in between.

Over the past 2 months, however, I have incorporated Zwift into my training. This has made a huge difference on my training as I mostly do workouts where my output targets are based off my FTP. Even though I ride with a power meter on the road, there are all kinds of variables on even the best training routes that mean I really don't look at the numbers while riding and thus don't train most effectively. Based on this, I've decided that for the most part, riding outside is riding, enjoy the road! When training, get inside, get focused, and hit the numbers/zones that have been proven to have the most impact on improving the bike split and the run that's coming.
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Re: Typical AGer FTPs? [Bonesbrigade] [ In reply to ]
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Bonesbrigade wrote:
colinlaughery wrote:
4.4 w/kg as a lower level pro here. Glad to see I stack up to some cat 2 talent though!


You likely don’t stack up too well to your average cat.2 road racer having just a similar w/kg. As I’m sure you’re aware the power profile of a triathlete is likely much different and not conducive to road racing - not to mention race experience and tactics!

Indeed.

Might be able to roll off the front of some cat 5 and 4 races, but by the 3s he's probably not going to be riding anyone off his wheel at 4.4. Unless he develops some serious commensurate short-duration power and/or a sprint, he'd likely be hard pressed to get to a 2 based on that ftp alone.

Bike racing is a bit more complex than an ftp number.
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Re: Typical AGer FTPs? [jkhayc] [ In reply to ]
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jkhayc wrote:
FindinFreestyle wrote:
Front of pack females are 175 - 225 or so.


i think you're under selling the FOP ladies.

I've coached a lot of them and seen a lot of power files in the last 15 years. Maybe you are underestimating how fast someone can go at 5'6", 135lbs and 200 watts?
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Re: Typical AGer FTPs? [FindinFreestyle] [ In reply to ]
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I trust that you know what you know.
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