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Re: Official Speed Concept Owners Thread [Carl] [ In reply to ]
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Are there any specific requirements as far as brake levers go? Can I use any type of TT brake lever? Such as the dura ace TT-79, sram TT990, TRP?

Are some better designed to work with the SC brake system in mind? Is there a cable length that I should look to purchase for running the brake cables?
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Re: Official Speed Concept Owners Thread [simosl3] [ In reply to ]
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My best guess is your post may be damaged from overclamping, at which point no amount of tightening or a new wedge will prevent slipping. Remove your post and lay the leading edge along a flat surface...if you can see a thin arc of daylight in the region where you've been clamping and slipping then your post needs to be replaced.

Then, if you have the seatpost wedge (in your picture) with a 7.2Nm torque spec printed on it, don't go right to the max...most people get adequate clamp-up starting at around 4Nm or so.

Carl Matson
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Re: Official Speed Concept Owners Thread [Tigertater] [ In reply to ]
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We didn't design it with all possible brake levers in mind, but I'm not aware of any that don't work. That said, some gen1 SC bars might not work with SRAM levers because their internal mounting wedge assembly is a little longer than Shimano's.

No special needs for brake cable length. However, rear shifters may benefit from longer (ie tandem length) cables on larger size frames.

Carl Matson
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Re: Official Speed Concept Owners Thread [Carl] [ In reply to ]
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Carl, question about current SC 7.5

Why is it UCI legal now. What is the thinking behind smaller fork, base bar, and no speedfin?

I am truly scratching my head why a superbike that was all about these features would remove them for all but the most expensive option. And the 9 is only P1 now....

Low inventories? New bike coming ???

Thanks

http://www.TriScottsdale.org
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Re: Official Speed Concept Owners Thread [Carl] [ In reply to ]
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Hi Carl and thank you for reply! I have 11nm printed on it. Do you think I should switch to a new clamp 7.2nm version? Do you have the code?
Thank you!
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Re: Official Speed Concept Owners Thread [Sbernardi] [ In reply to ]
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I don't envy the product managers...trying to match up the products and markets not just domestically but worldwide. If there's a tougher job in the business I don't know what it is.

Carl Matson
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Re: Official Speed Concept Owners Thread [simosl3] [ In reply to ]
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OK, that's a little different story...the 7.2Nm version was developed to address slippage issues that some customers had with the original 11Nm version. Since that's what you're dealing with, there's a good chance your post isn't damaged and that the replacement wedge will solve things. Part # w311236.

My advice regarding where to start on torque values with the replacement wedge still stands.

Carl Matson
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Re: Official Speed Concept Owners Thread [Carl] [ In reply to ]
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Carl wrote:
OK, that's a little different story...the 7.2Nm version was developed to address slippage issues that some customers had with the original 11Nm version. Since that's what you're dealing with, there's a good chance your post isn't damaged and that the replacement wedge will solve things. Part # w311236.

My advice regarding where to start on torque values with the replacement wedge still stands.

Thank you Carl you are the best!!
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Re: Official Speed Concept Owners Thread [ In reply to ]
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Hi Everyone - I have a gen 2 SC with 11 speed di2.

Does anyone have a wahoo kickr 2 or Tacx Neo/flux? Wondering if there are any issues fitting on those smart trainers?

Thanks,

Joe
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Re: Official Speed Concept Owners Thread [tri@thlete] [ In reply to ]
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Neo appears to be OK if it's the newer version:

http://forum.slowtwitch.com/forum/?post=6151298#p6151298


http://forum.slowtwitch.com/forum/?post=5801223#p5801223


http://forum.slowtwitch.com/forum/?post=6054114#p6054114


I'm not able to find anything on the kickr 2 with respect to SC compatibility...the original kickr seems to be OK:


http://forum.slowtwitch.com/forum/?post=6082111#p6082111


no word on flux that i can find...it wasn't scheduled to hit stores until Oct (EU) and Nov (everywhere else) so there may not be many out in the wild yet.







Carl Matson
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Re: Official Speed Concept Owners Thread [Carl] [ In reply to ]
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I had the original kickr together with the gen 2 SC. No issues.

I since upgraded the kickr to version 2 and also changed bikes. While I haven't actually tested the combination of gen 2 SC and kickr version 2, I can't see changes for kickr version 2 that per my understanding would make it incompatible with the SC.
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Re: Official Speed Concept Owners Thread [jakesdk] [ In reply to ]
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Thanks Carl and Jake! I think it barely fits.


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Re: Official Speed Concept Owners Thread [tri@thlete] [ In reply to ]
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Apologies for not knowing how to post a new topic within the same thread, also apologies in advance for the question as I am sure it has been asked, I just can't find what I am looking for.

I am looking for a solution to a creaky bottom bracket on a 2014 Speed Concept 7.5. I bought the bike used with Ultegra. I needed to use a GXP Quarq and I bought the appropriate Trek kit. The Trek dealer installed it but it has had a steady creak since install. I have less than 500 miles on this bike, race rides only. It goes away for a few rides when I take it apart and grease it, but it comes back quickly. One of the bearings already feels like it is failing as it has a real grainy texture when rolling.

I don't have a lot of confidence in the Trek dealer. Besides this, they installed a different mono extension. When they did, they routed the cables on the outside of the frame. I know that a lot of shops don't deal with a lot of these bikes, but still, it did not inspire confidence.

Some basic questions...what is the actual BB standard for this bike, is it BB90?

Is there any threaded adapter option?

Any other general advise?

Thank you.
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Re: Official Speed Concept Owners Thread [flocrest] [ In reply to ]
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Hi flocrest-

Working backwards through your post:

-no threaded adapters I'm aware of
-BB90
-hard to diagnose from afar, but two things changed at the same time...the bearings and the crank...so ideally you'd isolate each as a potential source of the noise and go from there. Any GXP-based crank would be compatible with the bearings you've got in there, so a friend or a shop that had another such crank (doesn't need to be a Quarq) which was known to not make noise could be swapped in directly. If the noise is still there, the BB (bearings, or installation thereof) would be the next test. That involves either reinstalling the bearings you've got or installing a different set of BB90 GXP bearings, not simply removing your cranks and greasing the spindle. If reinstalled bearings with "old" (Quarq) crank still make noise, try new bearings. If those plus Quarq still make noise, the source may be somewhere else...and the possibilities are numerous. I've heard of pedals, chainring bolts, quick release skewers, etc all ending up as the root cause for creaks while pedaling.

Good luck!

Carl Matson
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Re: Official Speed Concept Owners Thread [Carl] [ In reply to ]
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Carl,

I thought I replied to this but apparently it did not post. While I can't rule out things like chainring bolts and the crank, it would seem unlikely as the noise vanishes for a while when I service (put some grease around) the bottom bracket bearings.

I have been in touch with some companies that sell parts for this and Wheels Manufacturing noted that apparently there is a V2 version of the Trek BB90/GXP adapter that is 37.1 mm instead of the normal 37. It sounds like there are a few frames that require the kit. This sounds a lot like my bike as the bearings really just go in an out without any effort whatsoever.

I suppose you can't possibly tell if my bike is a candidate for this without seeing it, but how would one know if this is a viable option? Can Loctite be used with the regular bearings (I just hate to even consider doing this on this expensive of a frame). One vendor suggested, if I wanted the option of a higher quality bearing, to use teflon tape to install and then just cut off the excess. This did not sound like the best advise to me either. Anyway, bottom line is I want a quality bearing that I don't have to worry about, so any further options would be appreciated.

Thank you.
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Re: Official Speed Concept Owners Thread [flocrest] [ In reply to ]
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It's possible your frame would benefit from the V2 bearing...but the oversized cups was an issue from the early gen1 SC era (and rare even then on SCs compared to other BB90 frames of vintage). This is the first gen2 frame I've ever heard of which might be exhibiting the same symptoms.

I'd go the loctite route first...that was the interim fix while the V2 bearing was coming online, and for some customers it ended up being all they needed. It's also reversible (don't use the red!). The risk to the V2 bearing is that trying to install on a frame that doesn't really need it will almost certainly damage the frame.

Finally, I know it's not ideal from a training and racing standpoint, but in the event the loctite doesn't do the trick I'd suggest working with your Trek dealer to submit a warranty claim...which may result in the frame needing to come back to Trek for inspection.

Carl Matson
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Re: Official Speed Concept Owners Thread [Carl] [ In reply to ]
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I suppose I need to find a dealer with some experience with this. Unfortunately, I am not able to consider a warranty as I bought the bike used. I was looking online and saw a youtube video on the BB90 replacement. I had to giggle when I saw the guy get out the bearing removal and installation tool. Mine will be out as the crankset is removed.

I will find a good kit and try the loctite I guess. I appreciate your quick and complete responses, although I would try to talk you into a threaded BB design in the next generation.
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Re: Official Speed Concept Owners Thread [Carl] [ In reply to ]
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Bought the new 7.5 SC (light gray). Planning to buy the Draft Box II, but want the color to match. Is it possible to get the draft box custom painted by Trek?
Last edited by: TRIspud: Dec 1, 16 9:28
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Re: Official Speed Concept Owners Thread [TRIspud] [ In reply to ]
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Hi TRIspud-

It's something we've done for some of our Race Shop sponsored athletes, but generally speaking, no....at least not direct from Trek. A custom paint shop might be willing to take a shot at color-matching to the frame.

Carl Matson
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Re: Official Speed Concept Owners Thread [Carl] [ In reply to ]
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Thanks Carl. I'll check out the custom paint option.
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Re: Official Speed Concept Owners Thread [flocrest] [ In reply to ]
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I wanted to follow up with my bearing issue in case someone else was having the same issue (using GXP in a BB90 frame).

There are two parts to this,

1. Took the bike to an experienced dealer. He said the frame was nowhere near close to needing the V2 (slightly bigger) bearing. The bearing in question was loose, but it had failed and that could have been part of the fit problem. It was rusty and nasty with around 500 miles. The other bearing was fine. He said that the new Trek kit had some safeguards against the creaking, he said they started making them with a coating on the outside of the bearing to deal with some possible issues. Really, the bottom line with this is it was not installed correctly when I had the GXP kit put in. In fairness to the original dealer, it is possible that the install was messed up by me, as I did change the chainrings at some point and could have messed it up myself.

2. This is a bit more interesting and I wanted to see if Carl had any thoughts. While trying to find a fix for this, one of the bearing companies sent me correspondence comparing radial vs. angular bearings. I found it interesting and I thought others could benefit from me posting it.

The problem with using radial bearings in a GXP bottom bracket, particularly on a BB90 frame, is that SRAM expects one bearing (drive side) to be “free floating.” Normally, this means the bearing has free spindle on either side of it. This may work with fixed cups, but in a BB90 application, this would allow the bearing to back out of the socket or for the entire crankset to even shift toward one side or the other—hence the necessity of a wave washer to take up that excess spindle space and exert enough force to retain the bearing. This wave washer is necessarily going to put some side loading on the bearing. So, if you are with me, a radial bearing paired with a wave washer that gets compressed, means the radial bearing will be side-loaded, which is bad for the bearing. In other words, it’s a stupid factory design from SRAM. Angular contact bearings can correct this.

Since they are designed for side-loading, angular contact bearing work very well with the wave washer. Regardless of socket fit, I think an angular contact bearing setup is going to quieter because the crankset will be imparting inward force against the outer surfaces of the bearings. This should increase the friction fit inside the sockets. Additionally, I previously recommended the Teflon tape. If you want the bearings to fit tighter, this is a good method. It’s also somewhat “adjustable” due to the fact you can control the number of wraps around the bearing.

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Re: Official Speed Concept Owners Thread [flocrest] [ In reply to ]
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Glad to hear the V2 bearing wasn't necessary. Suspect what the dealer meant by a "coating" on current bearings is actually an integrated plastic seal, which also functions as a spacer much like the old orange seals (and silver cap on older SRAM BBs).

Lest anyone get the wrong idea about your "fixed cup systems" reference, the distance between BB90 bearing cups is also fixed...there's just a different set of seals and /or spacers involved to take up the slack depending on what BB your crank requires. This is not unique to BB90 either. Which brings us to the wave washer...

In a quick search through the forum plus some googling it seems the wave washer should be treated as an "optional" item...or, more accurately, as an "if needed" item. Whether as-designed or due to tolerance stackups between frame, bearing, and crank manufacturers, you'll have situations where the wave washer is not only unnecessary, but actually could contribute to the very problem you note re: axial loading on a radial contact bearing. Several SC owners (and, notably, some other brand owners as well) have found that their GXP-based crank & BB combo has no axial play after everything is torqued to spec...without the wave washer installed. Most often, this is discovered after an installation including the wave washer where the cranks seem unreasonably draggy.

The above certainly jives with my experience installing GXP-based cranks into my various BB90 bikes over the last few years...I don't think I've needed a wave washer in any of them.

Side note: GXP crank install torque is substantial. I've sometimes referred to "getting my gorilla on" when installing them, so it's possible people (particularly if they don't use a torque wrench) could put a wave washer in there and only get things tight enough to where the cranks seem to spin freely without lateral play but in reality they've got a loose crank that is going to gradually walk around and make noise, damage the bearings, etc.


Good tip on the teflon tape. For a bunch of other really good BB install tips - for all standards - all in one place check this out: http://www.vcrcbike.com/...bfiles/bbinstall.pdf . While it was compiled by an aftermarket bearing supplier and includes some info specific to their products, I found there was a lot of best practices info and other neat tips in there...like the tubular glue version of your teflon tape trick :-)

Cheers!

Carl Matson
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Re: Official Speed Concept Owners Thread [Carl] [ In reply to ]
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Silly question but are generation 1 and 2 stems innerchangable?
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Re: Official Speed Concept Owners Thread [pokey] [ In reply to ]
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I'm afraid not.

Carl Matson
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Re: Official Speed Concept Owners Thread [Carl] [ In reply to ]
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Thanks Carlnfor that detailed response on the wave washer. Using a gxp crank in my SC, I found the wave washer definitely added a lot of drag and even without it, there is no play.
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