Lance, The Cannibal, Indurain, Moser, Berzin, Heras, Rominger all in the same category of dopers one notch under Julie Miller in terms of hierarchy of cheating. We'll at least Lance got pressured to come clean and confessed to a degree as has Merckx. Miller and Indurain are in denial of their cheating so they get a higher layer of disdain

Not in my book. But it is a poor analogy since Boston is flat ineligible for a WR. Times on elevation aided courses are simply not recognized in the record books. A Boston record can only be a course record and nothing more.

I think you're right.

If someone who drafts could cut the course and still get away with it, would s/he? If someone who cuts courses could fine a cheap and easy way to dope, would s/he?

I don't think there would be much hesitation in switching methods if the costs, risks and opportunities line up.

This is a question that has been debated and written about many times. The rules of a sport are not only as written in the rule book, but are part of a social construct of what is acceptable. For example, an intentional foul in basketball to stop the clock near the end of the game is entirely accepted as reasonable. Most would see an intentional delay of game in American football to move the ball back 5 yards (maybe to get a better kicking angle for a field goal attempt) as acceptable too, although others may not. In water polo you used to be able to commit a similar foul to basketball to stop the clock and give away a penalty shot (by having too many players in the water), but then the rule was changed where the opposing team keeps the ball even after the penalty shot if they miss. So in that case the culture dictated it was an unacceptable intentional rule breach. In triathlon, the culture of the sport (from the perspective of the rule enforcers) is that drafting is undesirable, but all drafting can't be eliminated and if they tried to do that it could ruin the sport (if, for example, you got an immediate DQ for even the slightest drafting). Is risking a drafting penalty worse than an intentional foul in basketball? A team is 'punished' by fouling a basketball player, just as a drafter would be punished if caught drafting. In both cases the infraction is deemed acceptable (by the offender) for the overall goal of winning. One could argue that drafting is less socially acceptable than an intentional basketball foul, but that is a matter of opinion...


ETA: A final point about those who may want to compare the above situations to course cutting. There is a difference. Some rule breaches result in a small, variable penalty (for example a red card in soccer for intentionally fouling a player who would likely have scored a goal), rather than an instant DQ/loss of game. Course cutting is such an egregious breach of the rules that it results in an immediate DQ and maybe a ban from future events. Same with doping. So no, it's not pure black and white.

Haven't seen this person around here or on another tri related board lately, but they were notorious for this. Maybe it was to make themselves feel better? Maybe since they are coaching now (still seem to advertise faster race times than actual race times), it's to make themselves "look better?"

Either way, just own up to your times. Even if you have a bad race here and there, the results are still yours. Instead of bragging in a blog about how you finished 15 minutes in a half marathon faster than you actually did, tell me a story of how you could have improved your performance.

I'll put the soap box away now.

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Team RWB Rochester / Team First Knight

I think you highlighted right there why these two things can't be comparable. In basketball the intent is to be caught, while in tri the intent is to not be caught. I use to get upset with intentional fouling, but finally realized that in most cases the team is only hurting itself.

Fair point, but there are still many examples of intentional fouling in sports where the team hopes not to be caught (intentionally collapsing a scrum or maul in rugby to avoid giving away a try). Most of these still only result in a modest penalty rather than a total loss of the match/DQ, so parallels can still be drawn with drafting in triathlons.

Personally, I do have a problem with intentional drafting (per the drafting rules). I have much less of a problem with receiving a legal aerodynamic advantage by riding behind/through a pack of riders in a crowded race.

None of this matters truly, as they all share the same Circle of Hell

In my mind this is how they're laid down

First Circle: People Who Fudge Their Training Logs
Second Circle: Bike Thieves
Third Circle: Bandits, People Who Fake Bibs, and Those Who Take TWO Finishers Medals
Fourth Circle: Dopers, Course Cutters, and Other Assorted Cheats
Fifth Circle: Gamblers, Sportswriters, and People Who Make up Charity Scams
Sixth Circle: Sports Agents
Seventh Circle: Team Owners
Eighth Circle: League Commissioners
Ninth Circle: Al Davis ... Alone for now, but saving spaces for Jerry Jones, OJ, Joe Buck and Roger Goodell

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"What's your claim?" - Ben Gravy
"Your best work is the work you're excited about" - Rick Rubin