Login required to started new threads

Login required to post replies

Prev Next
Re: Women's 10000m [playero] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
you sound like someone who just flipped on the tv yesterday and learned for the first time that women now compete in the 10K. there's also now a women's marathon and pole vault in case you weren't aware of that.
Quote Reply
Re: Women's 10000m [onceatriathlet3] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
onceatriathlet3 wrote:
Molly Huddle broke the AR in 30:13, which means she lost by nearly a minute to Ayana's time. She annihilated the world record in a solo effort in probably the most tactical over time race there is. All the while she was looking around up in the stands, not even focused on the race in what appeared to be a fairly comfortable effort for her. The only way she could've made it more obvious is if she would've done 5x1mi repeat immediately after the race.

It is without a doubt in my mind that she was doping. The real question is how many else? About 8 women began lapping other competitors at 3500m!


Huddle set a personal best by nearly 40 seconds in a race that she has run for years and set down many markers to establish her PR. Ayana set a personal best by 50 seconds in her 2nd ever race. Which seems more likely? I'm going with the person in only her 2nd attempt at dropping big time.

The race was blisteringly fast and awesome to behold. I had to watch it a second time to hear the more informed euro commentators comment on it. Everything came together for a fast time - the best athletes, great weather, and the unusual situation of a fast early pace (starting in lap 2) in a championship meet. It really was incredible to watch.

Is Ayana doped? Cheryuoit? Dibaba? Huddle? I don't know. Probably. But all you've got to go on is a fast time and Dibaba's coach recently getting caught red-handed (which is enough for me in her case and has me quite disappointed in the recently set 3:50 1500m WR). At least this performance is run in the open and they have to defeat WADA tests. The Chinese ran their doped times behind the curtain, with no testing (obviously), and with no western eyes to validate. In fact, back in 1993 the entire race was so fast and full of athletes no one had heard of that the hypothesis was they only ran 24 laps. Here at least, it is all out in the open and they've got current and future tests to deal with as well as beating the bio passport, which at a minimum prevents the insane, over-the-top blood doping of old like 60 hematocrits. If the women 10k runners are doping they are at least better at it then the Coach Ma's Army.

What about Clasicomano Luigi winning the TT?
What about Katinka Hosszu?
What about Sun Yang?
What about Yulia Efimova
What about Dafne Schippers, Shelly Ann Fraser-Pryce, and, by the looks of them, most every female sprinter?

There's a lot to be appalled about in these Olympics. Until WADA and IOC go at it with conviction, just sit back and enjoy the spectacle.
Last edited by: kny: Aug 13, 16 6:24
Quote Reply
Re: Women's 10000m [playero] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
playero wrote:
dogmile wrote:
playero wrote:
I don't see it so far fetched as everyone is painting to be....


That is because you don't know what you are talking about.

..


Did i run track in college? No, but a big fan of track for a long time! Who's to say that the previous person with the 20+ yrs was doped out?! Seriously, same thing could be said about all usa swimmers yet nobody really going there! Not many people can run like a eastern african and that's a fact! Jeez i bet you're one of those guys who see someone else benching more than you and immediately think they're juiced up! Smdh

well, i respect your desire to give the benefit of the doubt. it appeals to the better angels of our nature.

but i think you'll find that the reason people are raising their eyebrows is because the previous women's 10 000m record was a bit of an elephant in the room. it was a massive improvement on the previous record (which was itself a very solid time), and set by a runner who has subsequently admitted to having doped while running as part of a stable that produced several positives and had its coach banned. before last night, nobody had come within 20 seconds of it. . . since it was set in 1993.

in fact, whole large swathes of the women's record books are a bit of joke, from flo-jo's 100m right on through. the 10 000m record was pretty egregious and hadn't been approached in years. so to not just approach but shatter it, apparently in relative comfort, during the olympics (which traditionally is a tactical rather than a fast race) . . . it's made a lot of people say hmmm.

-mike

____________________________________
https://lshtm.academia.edu/MikeCallaghan

http://howtobeswiss.blogspot.ch/
Quote Reply
Re: Women's 10000m [kny] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
kny wrote:
onceatriathlet3 wrote:
Molly Huddle broke the AR in 30:13, which means she lost by nearly a minute to Ayana's time. She annihilated the world record in a solo effort in probably the most tactical over time race there is. All the while she was looking around up in the stands, not even focused on the race in what appeared to be a fairly comfortable effort for her. The only way she could've made it more obvious is if she would've done 5x1mi repeat immediately after the race.

It is without a doubt in my mind that she was doping. The real question is how many else? About 8 women began lapping other competitors at 3500m!


Huddle set a personal best by nearly 40 seconds in a race that she has run for years and set down many markers to establish her PR. Ayana set a personal best by 50 seconds in her 2nd ever race. Which seems more likely? I'm going with the person in only her 2nd attempt at dropping big time.

The race was blisteringly fast and awesome to behold. I had to watch it a second time to hear the more informed euro commentators comment on it. Everything came together for a fast time - the best athletes, great weather, and the unusual situation of a fast early pace (starting in lap 2) in a championship meet. It really was incredible to watch.

Is Ayana doped? Cheryuoit? Dibaba? Huddle? I don't know. Probably. But all you've got to go on is a fast time and Dibaba's coach recently getting caught red-handed (which is enough for me in her case and has me quite disappointed in the recently set 3:50 1500m WR). At least this performance is run in the open and they have to defeat WADA tests. The Chinese ran their doped times behind the curtain, with no testing (obviously), and with no western eyes to validate. In fact, back in 1993 the entire race was so fast and full of athletes no one had heard of that the hypothesis was they only ran 24 laps. Here at least, it is all out in the open and they've got current and future tests to deal with as well as beating the bio passport, which at a minimum prevents the insane, over-the-top blood doping of old like 60 hematocrits. If the women 10k runners are doping they are at least better at it then the Coach Ma's Army.

What about Clasicomano Luigi winning the TT?
What about Katinka Hosszu?
What about Sun Yang?
What about Yulia Efimova
What about Dafne Schippers, Shelly Ann Fraser-Pryce, and, by the looks of them, most every female sprinter?

There's a lot to be appalled about in these Olympics. Until WADA and IOC go at it with conviction, just sit back and enjoy the spectacle.

@kny you're post is on point also very unbias... i was unaware of the running coach getting caught & this bein her 2nd race in her running caeer. Thanks for the info

Speed kills unless you have speed skills!!!
Quote Reply
Re: Women's 10000m [playero] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Mike, you're right, sure it is eyebrow raising and dont feel quite right with many but me, I'll give it at least the benefit of the doubt until otherwise. Thinking some athletes are clean appears to be a bad thing here lol

Speed kills unless you have speed skills!!!
Quote Reply
Re: Women's 10000m [TriTamp] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
TriTamp wrote:
dogmile wrote:
Um yeah. Smashes the most doped distance record in TF by 14 seconds. Not even breathing hard at finish. Kenya looks clean by comparison.


..


she admitted to doping in her interview

http://www.msn.com/...r-BBvySTF?li=BBnb7Kz


Jesus is on the WADA list of banned substances? Who knew?
Quote Reply
Re: Women's 10000m [kny] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
I actually think the pace was probably perfect to pull Huddle and all the rest to huge PRs, but I think it was far too slow to string out the best in Ayana. The best way to optimize performance in a race of this distance is to evenly split -- which itself it typically a positive split pace followed by giving everything in the last lap. When Bekele ran 26:17, he went 13:09/13:09. Geb went 13:12/13:12, or thereabouts, and crushed himself coming home with a 58 second final lap.

Ayana goes and lays down a massive negative split, and the whole time she's just cranking up the pace. She went out in 14:45 and came home in 14:31ish. 14:31!!! That back half split, by itself, is incredible. That's 9 seconds faster than the current Olympic record in the 5k. It's 11 seconds faster than the all time American record in the 5k, held by Huddle.

So it's scary, a 15 second negative split, and -- it's entirely subjective to say, of course -- but she did not seem at all exhausted. It wasn't like she was falling down at the line. She probably doesn't even know how to pace a race of this duration, given that it was only her second go at the distance. I say she can certainly break 29 minutes.

This is all incredibly preposterous and disappointing. You can't help but think, once again, that the doctors and athletes on the dark side could be more than a decade ahead of the testing (including the bio passports). Countries with no anti-doping infrastructure and/or incredibly sophisticated institutional programs -- Russia, China, Ethiopia, Kenya -- and countries with a cutthroat athletic mentality and massive financial and medical resources -- the United States, Great Britain -- are clearly the furthest ahead in this game. Just because the latter nations haven't been enveloped in the same type of scandal doesn't make them any less guilty. Unfortunately, we will have to wait another 15 years to get to the bottom of all this. In the meantime, no, Kyle, I'm not enjoying the spectacle. I think it's a stain on the sport and should be an international shame. Just like everything else about this Olympics, and Sochi, and Beijing before it.
Quote Reply
Re: Women's 10000m [Vitesse] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Vitesse wrote:
Given that the Chinese admitted to doping their way to a 29:30....

That's a given? Really? Where can I find that?

(Not that they didn't dope, but I'd like to see where they admitted it)
Quote Reply
Re: Women's 10000m [JoeO] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Is your Google fu a bit weak today?

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/...dmits-being-part-of/
Quote Reply
Re: Women's 10000m [playero] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Facts in THIS case, NOT the USA swimmers, which has NOTHING to do with this...

1. Ethiopian runner beat the confirmed previous dopers World Record by 14 seconds. Widely acknowledged as the most dirty record on the books. Chinese runner who set world record has since admitted to doping prior to setting the record. China had state-sponsored athletes and doping program in the 1990s. FACT.

2. Ayana was had not been subject to out of competition doping tests AT ALL. FACT.

3. Ayana ran 14:30 back half and was looking up in stands along the way, and a 68 second last lap. Never even looked like she was trying / hurting. In fact, not even breathing hard at the finish. FACT.

4. Dibaba sisters, Tirunesh who got 3rd, was at the training camp in Spain where her coach was busted with 60 vials of EPO and HGH. She ran a PB and was still 25 seconds back on Ayana. FACT
Quote Reply
Re: Women's 10000m [J_R] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
J_R wrote:
TriTamp wrote:
dogmile wrote:
Um yeah. Smashes the most doped distance record in TF by 14 seconds. Not even breathing hard at finish. Kenya looks clean by comparison.


..


she admitted to doping in her interview

http://www.msn.com/...r-BBvySTF?li=BBnb7Kz



Jesus is on the WADA list of banned substances? Who knew?

Jesus is perfectly legal, below a certain threshold. Kinda like caffeine.
Too much of either is bad. ;-)


float , hammer , and jog

Quote Reply
Re: Women's 10000m [TriTamp] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
TriTamp wrote:
dogmile wrote:
Um yeah. Smashes the most doped distance record in TF by 14 seconds. Not even breathing hard at finish. Kenya looks clean by comparison.


..


she admitted to doping in her interview

http://www.msn.com/...r-BBvySTF?li=BBnb7Kz


Well, it's been said that religion was an opiate. But this is the first time it's linked to O2 vector doping.

AndyF
bike geek
Quote Reply
Re: Women's 10000m [sto] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
sto wrote:
Facts in THIS case, NOT the USA swimmers, which has NOTHING to do with this...

1. Ethiopian runner beat the confirmed previous dopers World Record by 14 seconds. Widely acknowledged as the most dirty record on the books. Chinese runner who set world record has since admitted to doping prior to setting the record. China had state-sponsored athletes and doping program in the 1990s. FACT.

2. Ayana was had not been subject to out of competition doping tests AT ALL. FACT.

3. Ayana ran 14:30 back half and was looking up in stands along the way, and a 68 second last lap. Never even looked like she was trying / hurting. In fact, not even breathing hard at the finish. FACT.

4. Dibaba sisters, Tirunesh who got 3rd, was at the training camp in Spain where her coach was busted with 60 vials of EPO and HGH. She ran a PB and was still 25 seconds back on Ayana. FACT
when you assert something as fact you really should quote a source.

Saying she hasn't been tested out of competition at all is hard to believe for someone going to the Games. So yeah, source please.

I ride:
Cervelo - P-Series/R3
GT - Sensor Carbon Expert

Supporters - Flo Cycling, Mount Bikes
Quote Reply
Re: Women's 10000m [BayDad] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Since she won, she will get tested. If she has been doping will it show up or does it depend on timing ect?
Quote Reply
Re: Women's 10000m [sto] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Reminds me of when Paula Radcliff ran 2:15:25 in London in 2003. Think she was clean? I don't remember her record being questioned at the time though.
Quote Reply
Re: Women's 10000m [J_R] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
I have a feeling her meaning was either lost in translation or it was "sarcasm, folks" as one Mr Trump would say.
Quote Reply
Re: Women's 10000m [KathyG] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
KathyG wrote:
Since she won, she will get tested. If she has been doping will it show up or does it depend on timing ect?

In-competition tests are not drug tests, they're IQ tests. The only possible way to catch cheats is vigorous, random, out-of-competition testing. And, apparently, Ethiopia, Kenya, and Jamaica (amongst others) don't do any of that.
Quote Reply
Re: Women's 10000m [KathyG] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
KathyG wrote:
Since she won, she will get tested. If she has been doping will it show up or does it depend on timing ect?

definitely depends on timing - different drugs have different half-lives and detectable thresholds.

-mike

____________________________________
https://lshtm.academia.edu/MikeCallaghan

http://howtobeswiss.blogspot.ch/
Quote Reply
Re: Women's 10000m [cartsman] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Not entirely sure I can discuss it while staying the right side of the forum rules ;-)


The sad part about this is that we've had something taken away from us. No more in the moment, can we be 100% in awe and amazed by extraordinary athletic achievements.

The women's 10,000m final was one of the moments, but it does not feel like it used to.

My thoughts here - http://stevefleck.blogspot.ca/...ll-awe-amaze-us.html

A long time ago we did look on in awe and amazement. Something has changed.


Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog
Last edited by: Fleck: Aug 16, 16 16:01
Quote Reply
Re: Women's 10000m [sto] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
What's her motivation to dope?

Winning.



Quote Reply
Re: Women's 10000m [psan] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
psan wrote:
Reminds me of when Paula Radcliff ran 2:15:25 in London in 2003. Think she was clean? I don't remember her record being questioned at the time though.

Lance's book "Every Second Counts" was also a hot seller in 2003. More people understand the depths of doping in sport in 2016 than 2003. Plenty of people questioned Radcliff's results, probably not enough of them for you to hear about it though.

..
Quote Reply
Re: Women's 10000m [psan] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
psan wrote:
Reminds me of when Paula Radcliff ran 2:15:25 in London in 2003. Think she was clean? I don't remember her record being questioned at the time though.

There is always questioning of every world record in athletics. In Radcliffe's case there are reasons to be optimistic that if it's still possible to break a record cleanly then she's as likely to be clean as anybody. She had a long career with steady improvement and consistent times, so it wasn't a one-off freak result. She raced for a long time for a country that takes doping controls seriously and has no known record of covering up test results. And she has always been one of the most vocal anti-dopers out there, not just saying the right thing when questioned about it like Lance, but campaigning against the inclusion of athletes that have failed doping tests, including waving placards in the stands on several occasions.

Could still be dirty of course, the sad thing about the cheats is that they cause us to question everybody, but Radcliffe's case is very different from an athlete suddenly emerging from a country that is known to have very weak doping controls, and shattering a world record that itself was widely considered to be dirty.
Quote Reply
Re: Women's 10000m [craigj532] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
craigj532 wrote:
In-competition tests are not drug tests, they're IQ tests.

They're also drug tests.
Quote Reply
Re: Women's 10000m [trail] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Gut instinct is normally a good indicator of whether something is dodgy or not. That 10,000 just didn't seem right.
Quote Reply

Prev Next