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Re: Specialized Win(d) Tunnel Trip - Jun 11, 2014. Ask me & Mark Cote anything. [tessartype] [ In reply to ]
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tessartype wrote:
Fleck wrote:
(custom tailored in sleeves to fit me)

For those who have no muscles! :)

I hear you brother. Us ectomorphs need to stick together!

Anxious to find a test comparing the CS Apex Speedsuit to one of the "established" options. Definitely tighter in the sleeve area, so I think that's an option if you don't want it custom-tailored.

This! Why was CS left out? Please test it next time in

"Base training is bull shit" - desertdude
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Re: Specialized Win(d) Tunnel Trip - Jun 11, 2014. Ask me & Mark Cote anything. [dongustav] [ In reply to ]
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Quote:
Mat is the octane better than the Stealth top?


My best guess is yes, the stealth is not as fast as the octane. I've only seen one test with the stealth compared to the octane and it was slower.

I think the two different garments serve different needs. The stealth is a better option for folks that want to replace the bike jersey they wear on the bike, or not want to wear one-piece skinsuit. The stealth is also a more modest option for those that might feel uncomfortable in a one-piece.

Mat Steinmetz

51-SPEEDSHOP.com - instagram - @matsteinmetz - facebook
Last edited by: Mat Steinmetz: Jun 12, 14 5:03
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Re: Specialized Win(d) Tunnel Trip - Jun 11, 2014. Ask me & Mark Cote anything. [thirstygreek] [ In reply to ]
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If a Pro goes to the tunnel, should he/she really buy a suit from each possible manufacturer so they (the manufacturers) and all consumers get the data for free?



Helloooooo, anyone out there?




thirstygreek wrote:
tessartype wrote:
Fleck wrote:
(custom tailored in sleeves to fit me)

For those who have no muscles! :)

I hear you brother. Us ectomorphs need to stick together!

Anxious to find a test comparing the CS Apex Speedsuit to one of the "established" options. Definitely tighter in the sleeve area, so I think that's an option if you don't want it custom-tailored.

This! Why was CS left out? Please test it next time in
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Re: Specialized Win(d) Tunnel Trip - Jun 11, 2014. Ask me & Mark Cote anything. [Rappstar] [ In reply to ]
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Rappstar wrote:
Looks virtually identical to mclaren. Is a new helmet. Name is just s-works TT.

any idea when it might be made available to the general public?
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Re: Specialized Win(d) Tunnel Trip - Jun 11, 2014. Ask me & Mark Cote anything. [Rappstar] [ In reply to ]
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Jordan, curious if you happen to know what helmet size(s) were tested on the Evade?

My shop and I noticed when comparing the M vs L a substantial difference in the exterior size of the Evade (much bigger difference than expected). Some athletes like Jesse chose the Evade, but wondered how/if fit really impacts that? The Large looks huge/bulbous on me, wereas on some guys it fits better and looks really sleek. Evade has 3x sizes, whereas most aero tailed helmets often have just 1 or 2 sizes

I don't have a choice but to go with the Large if I do Evade, but other tailed aero helmets "look" faster on me fit-wise. Perhaps this is a Mark question, I'd guess he has tested people over various size helmets
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Re: Specialized Win(d) Tunnel Trip - Jun 11, 2014. Ask me & Mark Cote anything. [Herbert] [ In reply to ]
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Hey it's worth a shot! Don't try and you'll never know! It makes the post biased if you limit the items tested. I don't think anyone would expect EVERY long sleeve top/suit to be tested but CS's suit has been worn by top ranked pros it deserves some attention.

"Base training is bull shit" - desertdude
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Re: Specialized Win(d) Tunnel Trip - Jun 11, 2014. Ask me & Mark Cote anything. [Rappstar] [ In reply to ]
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Thanks for the great write up. I can start by saying I am biased as I do work with Andre at Kiwami at times. This pretty much validates what we feel about our suits, and I think you offer some exceptional advice when you state that it is not just a bike race. When I consider the 3 sports I think the Kiwami suits shine, as the swimming speed is exceptional as evidenced by the fact that many pros have purchased the suits for swim skins at Kona and it has been a standard on the ITU circuit. Your tests show the bike speed is only bettered by a suit that can be tough to fit and has shown signs of difficulty with getting in and out of. I think when one considers ALL 3 sports, the Amphibian Prima and the new Spider are in a league of their own.
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Re: Specialized Win(d) Tunnel Trip - Jun 11, 2014. Ask me & Mark Cote anything. [Rappstar] [ In reply to ]
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Good info on the DeSoto arm coolers. I got a new pair this spring and love them. Thanks for verifying!

----------------------------------------------------------
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Interviews with Chris McCormack, Helle Frederikson, Angela Naeth, and many more.
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Re: Specialized Win(d) Tunnel Trip - Jun 11, 2014. Ask me & Mark Cote anything. [nickag] [ In reply to ]
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nickag wrote:
bufit323 wrote:
Rappstar wrote:
Worked out to about 6w at 45kph.


What's that at 180k? Between 1 and 2 minutes?


General rule quoted on ST is 50g drag @ 30mph = 5 watts @ 30mph = .5 seconds per km

Ballpark 1min 50sec in an IM.

Nope...~5W at typical race speeds.


i.e. in the low to mid 20s mph-wise

http://bikeblather.blogspot.com/
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Re: Specialized Win(d) Tunnel Trip - Jun 11, 2014. Ask me & Mark Cote anything. [Rappstar] [ In reply to ]
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How were the sleeves on the PI Octane tailored? By PI themselves or aftermarket? Thanks for the insight on your trip to the tunnel.

Support cancer research with the world's longest annual charity bike ride.
Texas 4000 for Cancer
Austin, TX to Anchorage, Alaska
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Re: Specialized Win(d) Tunnel Trip - Jun 11, 2014. Ask me & Mark Cote anything. [Mat Steinmetz] [ In reply to ]
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Mat Steinmetz wrote:
Quote:
Mat is the octane better than the Stealth top?


My best guess is yes, the stealth is not as fast as the octane. I've only seen one test with the stealth compared to the octane and it was slower.

I think the two different garments serve different needs. The stealth is a better option for folks that want to replace the bike jersey they wear on the bike, or not want to wear one-piece skinsuit. The stealth is also a more modest option for those that might feel uncomfortable in a one-piece.

I think, as usual, is that it depends. The Castelli Stealth was no worse on me and no better than the PI Octane. https://vimeo.com/94653721

For me, basically everything was the same.
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Re: Specialized Win(d) Tunnel Trip - Jun 11, 2014. Ask me & Mark Cote anything. [bullshark] [ In reply to ]
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bullshark wrote:
Rappstar wrote:
Looks virtually identical to mclaren. Is a new helmet. Name is just s-works TT.


any idea when it might be made available to the general public?

I doubt we will get answer to this question. I would guess that it would be available this fall or next spring, just based on when new products are generally released (at interbike or another even like that). There is a chance it could be released if it debuts during the TDF and be released concurrently. But I think that is less likely, since pro tour teams will probably just keep using the Mclaren, why would they start using one that is "inferior"?
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Re: Specialized Win(d) Tunnel Trip - Jun 11, 2014. Ask me & Mark Cote anything. [santino314] [ In reply to ]
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santino314 wrote:
How were the sleeves on the PI Octane tailored? By PI themselves or aftermarket? Thanks for the insight on your trip to the tunnel.

Andre @ Kiwami USA had his seamstress do it for me. I gave him rough dimensions, and she made the changes. Probably went a bit tight. They are a real bitch to get on (the sleeves). And based on what Cote said, they don't need to be that tight to be aero.

"Non est ad astra mollis e terris via." - Seneca | rappstar.com | FB - Rappstar Racing | IG - @jordanrapp
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Re: Specialized Win(d) Tunnel Trip - Jun 11, 2014. Ask me & Mark Cote anything. [USPro Tri] [ In reply to ]
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USPro Tri wrote:
Jordan, curious if you happen to know what helmet size(s) were tested on the Evade?

My shop and I noticed when comparing the M vs L a substantial difference in the exterior size of the Evade (much bigger difference than expected). Some athletes like Jesse chose the Evade, but wondered how/if fit really impacts that? The Large looks huge/bulbous on me, wereas on some guys it fits better and looks really sleek. Evade has 3x sizes, whereas most aero tailed helmets often have just 1 or 2 sizes

I don't have a choice but to go with the Large if I do Evade, but other tailed aero helmets "look" faster on me fit-wise. Perhaps this is a Mark question, I'd guess he has tested people over various size helmets

I only have ever tested the medium. Mark will have to elaborate on what they may have seen with different sizes on different athletes.

"Non est ad astra mollis e terris via." - Seneca | rappstar.com | FB - Rappstar Racing | IG - @jordanrapp
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Re: Specialized Win(d) Tunnel Trip - Jun 11, 2014. Ask me & Mark Cote anything. [bullshark] [ In reply to ]
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bullshark wrote:
Rappstar wrote:
Looks virtually identical to mclaren. Is a new helmet. Name is just s-works TT.

any idea when it might be made available to the general public?

I think it's a 2015 model year product, so probably sometime early spring of next year? But there are a lot of regulatory hurdles with helmets, so that's really just a best guess. Even the folks at SBC won't be able to say for sure.

"Non est ad astra mollis e terris via." - Seneca | rappstar.com | FB - Rappstar Racing | IG - @jordanrapp
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Re: Specialized Win(d) Tunnel Trip - Jun 11, 2014. Ask me & Mark Cote anything. [DamonHenry] [ In reply to ]
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DamonHenry wrote:
Did anything surprise you or Mark?

We both thought the 3/4 sleeve top would be faster. Definitely not slower.

Also thought the two piece would be slower than it was.

I thought for sure the Fusion suit would be faster than a sleeveless suit. Maybe not as fast as the "textured" fabric of the Pearl suit, but I did not expect 6w.

"Non est ad astra mollis e terris via." - Seneca | rappstar.com | FB - Rappstar Racing | IG - @jordanrapp
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Re: Specialized Win(d) Tunnel Trip - Jun 11, 2014. Ask me & Mark Cote anything. [craigj532] [ In reply to ]
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craigj532 wrote:
Easy question - what size PI Octane did you wear?

Medium

"Non est ad astra mollis e terris via." - Seneca | rappstar.com | FB - Rappstar Racing | IG - @jordanrapp
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Re: Specialized Win(d) Tunnel Trip - Jun 11, 2014. Ask me & Mark Cote anything. [Thomas Gerlach] [ In reply to ]
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Thomas Gerlach wrote:
Rappstar wrote:
Nothing in pockets during race. So no testing with items in pocket.

For some athletes, no tail helmets are much faster at high yaw. Starky for example. Why he wore the Giro air attack in Kona. Not the case for me.

Is there something specific that makes it work on Starky, or is just impossible to tell without going into the tunnel to test?

You'd have to ask him. I think it depends a LOT on back shape. If the tail doesn't "tuck" into your back, it's more likely that the helmet will stall at higher yaws.

"Non est ad astra mollis e terris via." - Seneca | rappstar.com | FB - Rappstar Racing | IG - @jordanrapp
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Re: Specialized Win(d) Tunnel Trip - Jun 11, 2014. Ask me & Mark Cote anything. [scottinmd] [ In reply to ]
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any tunnel data on the evade? There are several twitchers in here who don't think it's aero.............

"I would definitely smell her seat after a century ride"
Rappstar wrote:
That might be the post of the year right there.
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Re: Specialized Win(d) Tunnel Trip - Jun 11, 2014. Ask me & Mark Cote anything. [rrheisler] [ In reply to ]
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rrheisler wrote:
Jordan--

We are of a similar build, and we've talked extensively before about different sizing/positioning on board our respective Shivs. I too am wearing the Octane this year and finding it significantly faster than any other apparel option.

Couple of questions:

1.) What, between the CE and the CPSC versions of the S-Works TT, do you think makes the CE more comfortable for you?
2.) How'd you wind up getting the logoing done on the Octane? I ask as I've landed a couple for myself and a.) want to keep wearing the suit and b.) don't want to f it up in the process.
3.) Any thoughts behind the sunglasses being faster than the visor?

Gracias, good sir.

1) the ear flaps on the CE version go lower. Maybe some other changes with fit/shape. But the only one I know for sure is that the earflaps drop lower on the CE.

But really it just "felt" better - but only very slightly. Mostly just gut - "fast answer, which helmet is more comfy?" "This one." And that was the CE one.

2) Andre @ Kiwami USA. *THE* ABSOLUTE BEST transfer printer there is. He does a better job even than OE companies on transfer printing. If you need transfer printing, on any fabric, Andre is without question the best guy to do it. He can even do multiple colors. He's really a magician. And the logos NEVER peel.

3) The Smith Pivlock V2Max actually seems like it was tailor made for the shell shape of that McLaren helmet. It's practically like a visor, only smaller. So I think SOME of it may just be luck with those glasses and that helmet.

"Non est ad astra mollis e terris via." - Seneca | rappstar.com | FB - Rappstar Racing | IG - @jordanrapp
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Re: Specialized Win(d) Tunnel Trip - Jun 11, 2014. Ask me & Mark Cote anything. [shivermetimbers] [ In reply to ]
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shivermetimbers wrote:
any tunnel data on the evade? There are several twitchers in here who don't think it's aero.............

And they would be wrong. I published my findings on that helmet last september. 5w slower than the McLaren, which is pretty amazing.

"Non est ad astra mollis e terris via." - Seneca | rappstar.com | FB - Rappstar Racing | IG - @jordanrapp
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Re: Specialized Win(d) Tunnel Trip - Jun 11, 2014. Ask me & Mark Cote anything. [Rappstar] [ In reply to ]
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Rappstar wrote:
shivermetimbers wrote:
any tunnel data on the evade? There are several twitchers in here who don't think it's aero.............


And they would be wrong. I published my findings on that helmet last september. 5w slower than the McLaren, which is pretty amazing.


Nick_Barkley wrote:
shivermetimbers wrote:
/Evade


hardly cheap or fast. pretty much ultimate fail.

"I would definitely smell her seat after a century ride"
Rappstar wrote:
That might be the post of the year right there.
Last edited by: shivermetimbers: Jun 12, 14 9:02
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Re: Specialized Win(d) Tunnel Trip - Jun 11, 2014. Ask me & Mark Cote anything. [thirstygreek] [ In reply to ]
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thirstygreek wrote:
Hey it's worth a shot! Don't try and you'll never know! It makes the post biased if you limit the items tested. I don't think anyone would expect EVERY long sleeve top/suit to be tested but CS's suit has been worn by top ranked pros it deserves some attention.

I actually tried early in the year to get a CS suit. But the custom aspect of it makes it a bit trickier because it takes time to create a template that looks good. And I just didn't have the time to commit to it and CS understandably didn't want to devote a bunch of resources designing a suit for me that I might never have used. I may still try to get one for Kona. Not sure. It's definitely an interesting suit, and I would have liked to have had one to test.

The other suit/top I would have wanted to test was the Castelli SR Tri Skinsuit and T1 Stealth top. I also tried to get these from Castelli USA, but they weren't selling these to "normal" folks in the spring.

"Non est ad astra mollis e terris via." - Seneca | rappstar.com | FB - Rappstar Racing | IG - @jordanrapp
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Re: Specialized Win(d) Tunnel Trip - Jun 11, 2014. Ask me & Mark Cote anything. [Rappstar] [ In reply to ]
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Question - when pulling up the sleeves on a tight-sleeved suit like the octane, do you punch yourself in the mouth nearly every time like I do? I split my lip open once a week getting into my castelli aero race jerseys. But seriously, would you race with the octane suit and try to pull it on in T1 considering how difficult it might be over wet arms?
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Re: Specialized Win(d) Tunnel Trip - Jun 11, 2014. Ask me & Mark Cote anything. [shivermetimbers] [ In reply to ]
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shivermetimbers wrote:
Rappstar wrote:
shivermetimbers wrote:
any tunnel data on the evade? There are several twitchers in here who don't think it's aero.............


And they would be wrong. I published my findings on that helmet last september. 5w slower than the McLaren, which is pretty amazing.


Nick_Barkley wrote:
shivermetimbers wrote:
/Evade


hardly cheap or fast. pretty much ultimate fail.

1. Stop PMing stupid comments, troll.
2. The McLaren is 5w faster than the Evade.
3. The Giro A2 often tests faster than the McLaren.
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