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Re: Brett Sutton Article [TravisT] [ In reply to ]
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TravisT wrote:
ZingUK wrote:
BDoughtie wrote:
I don't want to search who you are. I would assume you'd have enough respect for our discussion that when you make it "personal" you atleast stand behind that. I've not said anything negative about sutton, teamTBB or you or anyone. I've stated my thoughts, brought up facts that sutton and teamTBB willingly talk about. So again,I was hoping for a civil discussion, and ill just let your posts speak for the manner in which you gone to, to make/prove a point. And that's all good, I've stuck to the facts in this situation and would hope you could atleast respect that. But if you need to call me a coward, call me a coward. I am happy with the fact that this thread has opened alot of eyes and its evident by who is and isn't posting anymore. So in that manner, I think we've been able to shed more light into teamTBB and sutton and how they are handling his interactions with juniors in the sport.


I'm also posting my views and just trying to understand where other people's views come from. Belive I do respect your viewpoint and I agree with you 90%

The reason Jordan et al have gone quiet is they have professional reputation to protect. I would bet you $100 they haven't particularly changed thier views 180 degrees otherwise they would come on and say as much.....silence does not provie anything one way or the other, that's why silence is so powerful


In this case though silence does nothing to protect their reputations, it only lowers them even further that they will continue to lend their tact support even in light of the information that has come out on this thread.

Another one refusing to reply to the questions. Thank you TravisT for also being very predicable. I have no idea what thier silence means, perhaps just there are more circumspect than you are, who knows?
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Re: Brett Sutton Article [ZingUK] [ In reply to ]
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Why don't you go back and read my response to your questions above then rewrite that post. You are in such a frenzy to attack people on here you don't even take the time to fully read their responses.

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Last edited by: BDoughtie: Jan 15, 13 12:30
Re: Brett Sutton Article [TravisT] [ In reply to ]
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TravisT wrote:
Why don't you go back and read my response to your questions above then rewrite that post. You are in such a frenzy to attack people on here you don't even take the time to fully read their responses.

I honestly don't really understand what you mean? In the original post I put up with the questions I mentioned you by name as one of the people I'd like to hear your response and you didn't answer the questions so that's why I responded the way I did simply stating the truth not attacking. If there is confusion in my understanding of your response I apologies, I did re-read it and came to the same conclusion.
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Re: Brett Sutton Article [BDoughtie] [ In reply to ]
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BDoughtie wrote:
I don't want to take your money and I've already heard 1st hand about their thinking. So you would be wrong in your thinking.

They are silent mainly because of their reputation. With the info that has been provided, it doesn't make much sense in trying to justify why they talk up or went with sutton. With better understanding they probaly see that it's just not a valid point to try and defend why they worked with him (while admitting that they thought sutton was not interacting with juniors anymore and thus could justify working with him among other reasons).

Like I said I'm glad this info is out there because from the comments I've received, it's been very enlightening.

Likewise if Sutton really is working with kids then I'm also happy its out there, of course it should stop. If he happens to be in a room with kids supervised (and I don't mean on a regular basis, eg giving a talk about sports performance of something) then again I can live with that, I simply don't see the threat especially after 20+ of that threat never materialising (yes I'm waiting for someone to say "that we know of")

I have also received private messages so perhaps people are just telling us what they think we want to hear, who knows?
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Re: Brett Sutton Article [ZingUK] [ In reply to ]
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Post #318. Still not sure why you are hell bent on insulting and attacking people who care about what should be an important issue.

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Re: Brett Sutton Article [ZingUK] [ In reply to ]
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I deleted my last post and will rewrite it here. I don't any to take your money and based on 1st hand interactions, ill say your wrong. Ill just leave it at that and wait to see if others chime in. They may or they may not, and I understand why they won't.

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Re: Brett Sutton Article [ZingUK] [ In reply to ]
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ZingUK wrote:
ajthomas wrote:
ZingUK wrote:
so if anyone had access to mnors and expressed his sexuality towards them and created an adultation culture 100 more powerful than Sutton's it would be Elvis.


Did it occur to you that the reason you will receive deathly silence is because your question is preposterous?


Nope, not in the slightest. I'm asking people about thier priciples across the board. Why is it preposterous, is Elvis' rape of Precillas somehow different from Suttons? Isn't that me asking about the same thing?

You didn't ask about anyone's principles across the board. You asked what they think of Elvis.

If you want to know what my principles are across the board they would be this: A person who committed a great crime should be given the opporunity to show remorse for what they did and the opportunity to reform their fatal flaws. But every individual is different. I will allow Sutton the courtesy of not judging him the way I judge the Elvis - a man who died alone in a hotel room form a drug overdose. I do not know if Elvis had regret for what he did and if he worked towards reforming his flaws. I suspect not. So in the end, I judge him a tragic failure. Some people who know him well believe that Sutton has true regret, though I don't think he is working to reform his flaws nor do I think that many of his supporters even understand what those basic flaws are. I am quite certain you do not.

Does that suffienceintly explain why your question is preposterous?
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Re: Brett Sutton Article [BDoughtie] [ In reply to ]
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BDoughtie wrote:
I deleted my last post and will rewrite it here. I don't any to take your money and based on 1st hand interactions, ill say your wrong. Ill just leave it at that and wait to see if others chime in. They may or they may not, and I understand why they won't.

Agreed, not fair to pull other in so I will also delete the $100 bet post
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Re: Brett Sutton Article [ajthomas] [ In reply to ]
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ajthomas wrote:
[
You didn't ask about anyone's principles across the board. You asked what they think of Elvis.

If you want to know what my principles are across the board they would be this: A person who committed a great crime should be given the opporunity to show remorse for what they did and the opportunity to reform their fatal flaws. But every individual is different. I will allow Sutton the courtesy of not judging him the way I judge the Elvis - a man who died alone in a hotel room form a drug overdose. I do not know if Elvis had regret for what he did and if he worked towards reforming his flaws. I suspect not. So in the end, I judge him a tragic failure. Some people who know him well believe that Sutton has true regret, though I don't think he is working to reform his flaws nor do I think that many of his supporters even understand what those basic flaws are. I am quite certain you do not.

Does that suffienceintly explain why your question is preposterous?

A good answer and at least you are balanced s in a sense that is what I am trying to get at. Are people balanced in their views, I think not and I think the attacks and comments made by some people are unfair. I asked the question about someone who is a well known all American heor (as I said before) to see who would have the same outrage against him to at least get people to think about what they are saying. No I still don't think it's preposterous in a discussion like this to ask people why they say what they say and if their thinking is consistent. The fact that no one has directly answered the questions (at least you semi answered them) tells it's own story, they are uncomfortable speaking about someone some of them have possibly listend to and enjoyed for many years without a hint of guilt or screaming that he was a paedophile. That's why I think the questions are pertinent
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Re: Brett Sutton Article [ZingUK] [ In reply to ]
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ZingUK wrote:
ajthomas wrote:
[
You didn't ask about anyone's principles across the board. You asked what they think of Elvis.

If you want to know what my principles are across the board they would be this: A person who committed a great crime should be given the opporunity to show remorse for what they did and the opportunity to reform their fatal flaws. But every individual is different. I will allow Sutton the courtesy of not judging him the way I judge the Elvis - a man who died alone in a hotel room form a drug overdose. I do not know if Elvis had regret for what he did and if he worked towards reforming his flaws. I suspect not. So in the end, I judge him a tragic failure. Some people who know him well believe that Sutton has true regret, though I don't think he is working to reform his flaws nor do I think that many of his supporters even understand what those basic flaws are. I am quite certain you do not.

Does that suffienceintly explain why your question is preposterous?


A good answer and at least you are balanced s in a sense that is what I am trying to get at. Are people balanced in their views, I think not and I think the attacks and comments made by some people are unfair. I asked the question about someone who is a well known all American heor (as I said before) to see who would have the same outrage against him to at least get people to think about what they are saying. No I still don't think it's preposterous in a discussion like this to ask people why they say what they say and if their thinking is consistent. The fact that no one has directly answered the questions (at least you semi answered them) tells it's own story, they are uncomfortable speaking about someone some of them have possibly listend to and enjoyed for many years without a hint of guilt or screaming that he was a paedophile. That's why I think the questions are pertinent

If you want yourself to be taken seriously why don't you not make statements that are blantant lies as both Brooks and I, the only people of the ones you decided to "call out" who so far have responded, both stated that we would react the exact same way to Elvis as we have to Sutton. I don't need to go line by line on your questions to say that his behavior was just as disgusting.

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Re: Brett Sutton Article [ZingUK] [ In reply to ]
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I think when you commit crimes against a junior you forfeit the right to then interact with them purposely and with intent for the rest of your career. So yes I think it's wrong that we have people and sutton himself that knowingly and with intent give him access to juniors. You feel differently, but I would think a coach forfeits his right to interact with juniors in any coaching/Tri/team environment. I wouldn't want him in a room full of 30 kids, I think he loses that right by his past actions.

That's my whole beef, that's it.

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Re: Brett Sutton Article [TravisT] [ In reply to ]
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TravisT wrote:
[

If you want yourself to be taken seriously why don't you not make statements that are blantant lies as both Brooks and I, the only people of the ones you decided to "call out" who so far have responded, both stated that we would react the exact same way to Elvis as we have to Sutton. I don't need to go line by line on your questions to say that his behavior was just as disgusting.

Apologies, I missed you post 318 so yed thanking for at least semi responding. Ask any phychologist the reason I put in the questions line by line and asked for responses line by line, It's because if forces you through a certain process. Both you and Brooks are too young to have much vested interest in Elvis so easier for you to reply than someone who has enjoyed his music and movies for many years as almost all of the older generation will have.

So now I can go sleep at least knowing you and Brooks think Elvis was paedophile and should have been licked up for what he did and kept well away from minors for the rest of his life. Good that you are consistent and I'm not being sarcastic here I promise
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Re: Brett Sutton Article [BDoughtie] [ In reply to ]
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BDoughtie wrote:
I think when you commit crimes against a junior you forfeit the right to then interact with them purposely and with intent for the rest of your career. So yes I think it's wrong that we have people and sutton himself that knowingly and with intent give him access to juniors. You feel differently, but I would think a coach forfeits his right to interact with juniors in any coaching/Tri/team environment. I wouldn't want him in a room full of 30 kids, I think he loses that right by his past actions.

That's my whole beef, that's it.

You view is absolutely fine and I accept that, I never actually said otherwise. Again like Travis you are consistent across the board and I take no issue with it, that is all I was asking all of you.

My view doesn't differ very much at all from yours and I hope I would also be consistent. If someone commits and offence then I give them the opportunity for redemption and they recommit then off to jail for life or whatever punishment suits the offence, no second chance.
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Re: Brett Sutton Article [ZingUK] [ In reply to ]
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ZingUK wrote:
BDoughtie wrote:
I think when you commit crimes against a junior you forfeit the right to then interact with them purposely and with intent for the rest of your career. So yes I think it's wrong that we have people and sutton himself that knowingly and with intent give him access to juniors. You feel differently, but I would think a coach forfeits his right to interact with juniors in any coaching/Tri/team environment. I wouldn't want him in a room full of 30 kids, I think he loses that right by his past actions.

That's my whole beef, that's it.


You view is absolutely fine and I accept that, I never actually said otherwise. Again like Travis you are consistent across the board and I take no issue with it, that is all I was asking all of you.

My view doesn't differ very much at all from yours and I hope I would also be consistent. If someone commits and offence then I give them the opportunity for redemption and they recommit then off to jail for life or whatever punishment suits the offence, no second chance.

If your view doesn't differ from our why the attacks? I don't think either of us ever said Sutton could not be rehabilitated, forgiven as much as anyone can be for actions such as his and move on with his life. Just not in a coaching capacity. Definitely not of minors in absolutely any setting and preferably not at all.

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Re: Brett Sutton Article [TravisT] [ In reply to ]
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TravisT wrote:
[
If your view doesn't differ from our why the attacks? I don't think either of us ever said Sutton could not be rehabilitated, forgiven as much as anyone can be for actions such as his and move on with his life. Just not in a coaching capacity. Definitely not of minors in absolutely any setting and preferably not at all.


I'm not attacking Travis, just asked some questions of people who have been very voiciferous and some who have attacked Jordan and Brandon for their views I think unfairly. If you feel attacked that's up to you but apart from missing your earlier post which you fairly pointed and I apologised for I don't think I'm attacking anyone.

The bottom line for you and Brooks and I is we are at least consistent:

You (as in you and Brooks plural) Believe Elvis was a paedophile, I think Elvis was a paedophile
You think he should have been punished for it, I think he should have been punished for it
You think he should have been allowed to record in a studio and make movies afterwards (assuming no kids there of course, I think the same
You think he should never have been allowed to play live to an audience in Vegas or anywhere else because there were minors present, I think he should have been and I think it left a very good positve legacy but only so long as he wasn't allowed near the minor on an unchaparoned basis

Substitue Elvis for Sutton and change the place of work and at least the three of us are consistent

So my view does differ a little at least from some of you I asked the questions of and quite a lot from others who have stated they don't believe he should be coaching anyone anywhere
Last edited by: ZingUK: Jan 15, 13 13:39
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Re: Brett Sutton Article [ZingUK] [ In reply to ]
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ZingUK wrote:
TravisT wrote:
[
If your view doesn't differ from our why the attacks? I don't think either of us ever said Sutton could not be rehabilitated, forgiven as much as anyone can be for actions such as his and move on with his life. Just not in a coaching capacity. Definitely not of minors in absolutely any setting and preferably not at all.


I'm not attacking Travis, just asked some questions of people who have been very voiciferous and some who have attacked Jordan and Brandon for their views I think unfairly. If you feel attacked that's up to you but apart from missing your earlier post which you fairly pointed and I apologised for I don't think I'm attacking anyone.

The bottom line for you and Brooks and I is we are at least consistent:

You (as in you and Brooks plural) Believe Elvis was a paedophile, I think Elvis was a paedophile
You think he should have been punished for it, I think he should have been punished for it
You think he should have been allowed to record in a studio and make movies afterwards (assuming no kids there of course, I think the same
You think he should never have been allowed to play live to an audience in Vegas or anywhere else because there were minors present, I think he should have been and I think it left a very good positve legacy but only so long as he wasn't allowed near the minor on an unchaparoned basis

Substitue Elvis for Sutton and change the place of work and at least the three of us are consistent

So my view does differ a little at least from some of you I asked the questions of and quite a lot from others who have stated they don't believe he should be coaching anyone anywhere

Fair enough. The process felt a bit antagonistic but I'll take the responisiblity for reading it that way. It seems a main reason for your posts on the topic seems to be defense of Jordan and Brandon and not a defense of Sutton. I can understand your point but they should be held to a much higher standard then anyone else as recognized ambassadors of the sport. One of them supporting Sutton carries far more weight then anything I or you say against him. As this thread progressed and it became more and more apparent that Sutton is still involved in coaching minors in complete defiance of the standards anyone even accused of what he did should hold themselves to. Jordan and Brandon simply disappeared leaving their previous posts in support of Sutton and a deafening silence in response to the growing information that can only be construed as either support or a lack of care. It's sad that people in the sport can be far more up in arms over the involvement in triathlon of someone who cheated rather then someone who raped a young girl. Strange where people can draw the lines for for priorities and forgiveness.

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Re: Brett Sutton Article [TravisT] [ In reply to ]
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I initially posted because I, like a lot of other professionals as well as some age groupers, have had a direct relationship with Brett in terms of coaching. That being my two year term on TeamTBB in 2010 and 2011. At that time it was "the most winning team in triathlon", and TBB was a retail/distributorship in SE Asia. The team didn't have at that time social programs. Based on Brooks posts, some of them may have been there in the past in the past in Brazil. But, in 2010/2011 there were no youth or other social programs discussed. We were in Thailand and Swiss, and there were not social programs being actively pursued or developed. The team was built on sponsors and age group coaching. It was a team of adult professionals. And, by and large, the professionals who were on the team present and past, spoke well of Brett. We knew his history, he made sure of it. As adults we chose to be members of the team. Being a member of the team didn't, in my opinion, mean that I was condoning what Brett did in the past. And, like Jonnyo, based on our collected information it was an isolated incident. If I wasn't clear in the first post, I do not think that what Brett did in the past was acceptable in any way.

There is a fair bit of irony in this thread, there always is. A lot of the comments I expected after I posted. There was a poster who has posted in just a few threads over the past week or so who saw fit to tear me apart as well as ask Alex Bok for some outlandish challenges. The same poster who on another thread said that LA really didn't do anything that bad to anyone else and should be allowed to race as soon as possible. And, posted a veiled threat to call sponsors of ours. And, I suspect I'll get another scathing review here. So, that is why I disappeared. Not because of TravisT, Zing, Pick6, NAB, Always, or any number of other posters.

I admit that the question of doping in triathlon is a gray area. I mused about a no-tolerance policy in my interview. I mused that because WTC can be nimble in their rules/dealings with pros. A good example is the under investigation clause in our pro membership contract. But, I don't know if that is the answer. I really don't, and I know that there is irony in my stance on Brett coaching adults and my stance on doping.

I posted that our decision to leave the team had more to do with my results, or lack of results or improvement, over 2 years. It also had more to do with the management of the team than with Brett, which I also posted. While I appreciated Alex's words of support for myself, Jordan, Jonnyo...some of his answers and posts raised more questions that they provided answers. The best way to avoid a bad situation, posting on this thread as an example, is to simply not put yourself in that situation. Having any sort of dealings with minors of any type is not a good idea and one that I think TeamTBB should stay far away from. Brooks raised some very good points and questions regarding the social programs and youth coaching. Questions that I think should be answered. And he posted about the 'learning' or 'teaching' aspect of that possible situation as well, a very good point. I don't think that Brett posing for a picture with young kids is a good idea at all. Someone asked who the hell is driving the bus over there, it's a question that I thought as well.

The current iteration of TeamTBB is not the same as it was when we raced on the team. I have tried to keep my comments related to my experiences with Brett as a coach as well as his ideas about the sport of triathlon. And, really a lot of those ideas, if presented properly and listened to, could have positive impacts for pros and age groupers alike. If I wasn't clear enough in my initial post that what Brett did in the past is terrible, then I should be clear for the 2nd time in this post that I don't condone it in any way, shape, or form.


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Re: Brett Sutton Article [-BrandonMarshTX] [ In reply to ]
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Brandon, thanks for a really quality post. Like I said over DM I apologize for any inference I made that questioned you professionalism in responding on this thread. Working with Sutton as a coach is not something I feel I could do but I can't condemn on any level someone who did when, for all apperances, he had nothing to do with any programs that involved minors. It seems that has changed to some extent and a relationship with him and the ramifications is something everybody will now have to weigh for themselves.

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Re: Brett Sutton Article [-BrandonMarshTX] [ In reply to ]
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-BrandonMarshTX wrote:
I initially posted because I, like a lot of other professionals as well as some age groupers, have had a direct relationship with Brett in terms of coaching. That being my two year term on TeamTBB in 2010 and 2011. At that time it was "the most winning team in triathlon", and TBB was a retail/distributorship in SE Asia. The team didn't have at that time social programs. Based on Brooks posts, some of them may have been there in the past in the past in Brazil. But, in 2010/2011 there were no youth or other social programs discussed. We were in Thailand and Swiss, and there were not social programs being actively pursued or developed. The team was built on sponsors and age group coaching. It was a team of adult professionals. And, by and large, the professionals who were on the team present and past, spoke well of Brett. We knew his history, he made sure of it. As adults we chose to be members of the team. Being a member of the team didn't, in my opinion, mean that I was condoning what Brett did in the past. And, like Jonnyo, based on our collected information it was an isolated incident. If I wasn't clear in the first post, I do not think that what Brett did in the past was acceptable in any way.

There is a fair bit of irony in this thread, there always is. A lot of the comments I expected after I posted. There was a poster who has posted in just a few threads over the past week or so who saw fit to tear me apart as well as ask Alex Bok for some outlandish challenges. The same poster who on another thread said that LA really didn't do anything that bad to anyone else and should be allowed to race as soon as possible. And, posted a veiled threat to call sponsors of ours. And, I suspect I'll get another scathing review here. So, that is why I disappeared. Not because of TravisT, Zing, Pick6, NAB, Always, or any number of other posters.

I admit that the question of doping in triathlon is a gray area. I mused about a no-tolerance policy in my interview. I mused that because WTC can be nimble in their rules/dealings with pros. A good example is the under investigation clause in our pro membership contract. But, I don't know if that is the answer. I really don't, and I know that there is irony in my stance on Brett coaching adults and my stance on doping.

I posted that our decision to leave the team had more to do with my results, or lack of results or improvement, over 2 years. It also had more to do with the management of the team than with Brett, which I also posted. While I appreciated Alex's words of support for myself, Jordan, Jonnyo...some of his answers and posts raised more questions that they provided answers. The best way to avoid a bad situation, posting on this thread as an example, is to simply not put yourself in that situation. Having any sort of dealings with minors of any type is not a good idea and one that I think TeamTBB should stay far away from. Brooks raised some very good points and questions regarding the social programs and youth coaching. Questions that I think should be answered. And he posted about the 'learning' or 'teaching' aspect of that possible situation as well, a very good point. I don't think that Brett posing for a picture with young kids is a good idea at all. Someone asked who the hell is driving the bus over there, it's a question that I thought as well.

The current iteration of TeamTBB is not the same as it was when we raced on the team. I have tried to keep my comments related to my experiences with Brett as a coach as well as his ideas about the sport of triathlon. And, really a lot of those ideas, if presented properly and listened to, could have positive impacts for pros and age groupers alike. If I wasn't clear enough in my initial post that what Brett did in the past is terrible, then I should be clear for the 2nd time in this post that I don't condone it in any way, shape, or form.

Please note I dont think I took you to task for your stance at all. I don't like what Sutton did, and there's a lot to be concerned about if some of these youth programs now exist, but after our private discussions I'm 100% understanding of the choices you made. It's like Michael Jackson; I dont buy his music, but Ive played the MJ slot machine at the casino and I hear his songs on the radio i dont automatically turn them off. Doesnt mean Im a pedophile or that I like pedophiles.
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Re: Brett Sutton Article [ZingUK] [ In reply to ]
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I do not find your thinking remotely balanced so the fact that you find my posts as such is a cause for concern. you think all criminals are created equally? so the college student who streaks the quad and unwittingly exposes himself to a minor is in the same boat as Sutton? I think not. the reason you are so comfortable mking the idiotic leap from Elvis to Stton is bcause you allow the law to dictate your morality. You see no difference between a young guy in love than and a habitual power abuser. all you see one shade: peadophile. Now I know nothing about Elvis, for all iknow he too was apower abuser. but either way your sentiment on the matter has no grounding.

So let me tell you what the balanced comparison is: there is not one. Sutton can only be judged in how he has worked twards moving away from being an abuser of power. That is it. Opinions on Obama, Armstrong, Elvis etc have no relevence.
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Re: Brett Sutton Article [-BrandonMarshTX] [ In reply to ]
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Brandon, thanks for the thoughtful comments. I want to clarify my own thoughts, especially as they've evolved as we've learned more, and as I've read other perspectives.

I have no reason to doubt any of the pros who used to work with Sutton when they say they weren't aware of him working with children. I'm not interested in a hunt of "who knew what, when". If any pros did in fact know and let it slide because they trusted that Sutton is reformed...well, shame on them. But I want to move forward instead of trying to figure out who knew what.

Here's what we know about Sutton's work with children since his 1999 conviction, and his coaching ban by the Triathlon Australia.
  1. In 2002 in Switzerland, he was coaching at least one 16-year old girl (who Sutton's own father had brought over from Australia). This was described in the Observer Guardian. Link here. http://observer.guardian.co.uk/...ry/0,,678189,00.html
  2. In 2005, he attempted to hold a camp with a dozen young triathletes in Britain, but was barred by officials from doing so. Link here: http://www.mako.org.au/brett_sutton1.html
  3. As a part of TBB, he has been working with underprivileged kids in Brazil, as described in his own words here. http://www.teamtbb.com./...task=view&id=271
  4. The team TBB website heavily promotes him as the head coach of the Philippines and Mexico youth development teams. The TBB website itself describes the ages of the youth athletes as 16 and 17, and pictures him with them.
  5. Team TBB's owner, Alex Bok, has not answered questions about Sutton's specific involvement with children, and what that involvement will be moving forward. Instead, Mr. Bok has written prolifically about how much he trusts Sutton, and how much he believes Sutton has reformed.

It is clear that Sutton continues to work with children, and has flouted both the letter and the intent of Australia's coaching ban. He has skirted serving his sentence by operating in countries that will not prohibit him (Thailand, Philippines, Switzerland, Mexico). For a number of reasons, the triathlon world has let this slide for a dozen years. But 2013 is a different world than those times.

Here's what I ask as we move forward into a new era of respectability and accountability in sports:
  1. That professional athletes stop their coaching relationships with Brett Sutton. Mary Beth Ellis, Caroline Steffen, Sam Warriner, and others: take a stand and renounce the practice of a convicted child molester continuing to work with children.
  2. That the media no longer recognize Brett Sutton as a legitimate coach. Slowtwitch, Inside Tri, and others: respect the intent of Australia's ban, and report on the fact that Sutton flouts it and continues to work with children. Stop reporting on his coaching, and stop reporting on the athletes that are known to be coached by him.
  3. That sponsors stop supporting Brett Sutton's team. Cervelo, 2xU, Cobb Cycling, and others: take a stand and stop enabling this man.

Is this unreasonable? If so, please tell me why.
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Re: Brett Sutton Article [-BrandonMarshTX] [ In reply to ]
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Thanks for the post Brandon.

It does seem like Sutton has had coaching relationships with juniors ranging back to your time with the team and before as outlined in one of the posts above mine, but I am willing to give you the benefit of the doubt that to the best of your knowledge you were unaware of this (as Jordan seemed to be). Jonnyo took a different tone getting antagonistic with posters asking them "What are you going to do about it" and while you got defensive, that is understandable, and you never got aggressive.

Hoping we might hear from Jordan at some point as well, we vowed not to post again until Alex had a chance to speak, but that was 3 days ago. And it seems to me Alex's post raised as many questions as it answered.



Portside Athletics Blog
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Re: Brett Sutton Article [AlwaysCurious] [ In reply to ]
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AlwaysCurious wrote:
Brandon, thanks for the thoughtful comments. I want to clarify my own thoughts, especially as they've evolved as we've learned more, and as I've read other perspectives.

I have no reason to doubt any of the pros who used to work with Sutton when they say they weren't aware of him working with children. I'm not interested in a hunt of "who knew what, when". If any pros did in fact know and let it slide because they trusted that Sutton is reformed...well, shame on them. But I want to move forward instead of trying to figure out who knew what.

Here's what we know about Sutton's work with children since his 1999 conviction, and his coaching ban by the Triathlon Australia.

  1. In 2002 in Switzerland, he was coaching at least one 16-year old girl (who Sutton's own father had brought over from Australia). This was described in the Observer Guardian. Link here. http://observer.guardian.co.uk/...ry/0,,678189,00.html
  2. In 2005, he attempted to hold a camp with a dozen young triathletes in Britain, but was barred by officials from doing so. Link here: http://www.mako.org.au/brett_sutton1.html
  3. As a part of TBB, he has been working with underprivileged kids in Brazil, as described in his own words here. http://www.teamtbb.com./...task=view&id=271
  4. The team TBB website heavily promotes him as the head coach of the Philippines and Mexico youth development teams. The TBB website itself describes the ages of the youth athletes as 16 and 17, and pictures him with them.
  5. Team TBB's owner, Alex Bok, has not answered questions about Sutton's specific involvement with children, and what that involvement will be moving forward. Instead, Mr. Bok has written prolifically about how much he trusts Sutton, and how much he believes Sutton has reformed.

It is clear that Sutton continues to work with children, and has flouted both the letter and the intent of Australia's coaching ban. He has skirted serving his sentence by operating in countries that will not prohibit him (Thailand, Philippines, Switzerland, Mexico). For a number of reasons, the triathlon world has let this slide for a dozen years. But 2013 is a different world than those times.

Here's what I ask as we move forward into a new era of respectability and accountability in sports:

  1. That professional athletes stop their coaching relationships with Brett Sutton. Mary Beth Ellis, Caroline Steffen, Sam Warriner, and others: take a stand and renounce the practice of a convicted child molester continuing to work with children.
  2. That the media no longer recognize Brett Sutton as a legitimate coach. Slowtwitch, Inside Tri, and others: respect the intent of Australia's ban, and report on the fact that Sutton flouts it and continues to work with children. Stop reporting on his coaching, and stop reporting on the athletes that are known to be coached by him.
  3. That sponsors stop supporting Brett Sutton's team. Cervelo, 2xU, Cobb Cycling, and others: take a stand and stop enabling this man.

Is this unreasonable? If so, please tell me why.

If Slowtwitch can seek to use its market clout and editorial space to make the call to keep an admitted doper out of the sport I'd hope they could do the same in regards to a convicted sex offender who continues to use the sport of triathlon as an avenue to justify his continued involvment in the coaching of young athletes he should be nowhere near.

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Re: Brett Sutton Article [TravisT] [ In reply to ]
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TravisT wrote:
[
Fair enough. The process felt a bit antagonistic but I'll take the responisiblity for reading it that way. It seems a main reason for your posts on the topic seems to be defense of Jordan and Brandon and not a defense of Sutton. I can understand your point but they should be held to a much higher standard then anyone else as recognized ambassadors of the sport. One of them supporting Sutton carries far more weight then anything I or you say against him. As this thread progressed and it became more and more apparent that Sutton is still involved in coaching minors in complete defiance of the standards anyone even accused of what he did should hold themselves to. Jordan and Brandon simply disappeared leaving their previous posts in support of Sutton and a deafening silence in response to the growing information that can only be construed as either support or a lack of care. It's sad that people in the sport can be far more up in arms over the involvement in triathlon of someone who cheated rather then someone who raped a young girl. Strange where people can draw the lines for for priorities and forgiveness.

You hit the nail on the head Travis when you say my post or process was a bit antagonistic, sometimes that is what it takes to move a discussion forward. As part of that outcome I note that Brandon posted again and got much mores civil replies including you one which I applaude you for. You are correct also when you say that Brandon and Jordan as pro their opinion carries more weight that either of out opinions but that doesn't mean their opinions need to be the same as ours nor that we have the right to attack them for it as some have done, they deserve the same right and respect to having a diffierent opinion as the rest of us.

Sutton did go to court, he did get sentenced and he did his punishment many years ago. Why should a court get involved again he hasn't committed any other crimes that we know of, sorry but being in a group picture where there happens to be a 16 year old is not a crime. If the he had never gone to court I (and I highly suspect Jordan etc) would be screaming at the top of our voices along with everyone else for sure.

We have mentioned silence in a couple of posts now, it is interesting who hasn't replied to my antagonism and who has, also I note Brooks went a bit quiet but benefit of the doubt he is probably working. Hats off to you and the others who did though because, at least for me there has been some sort of positive outcome from it at least towards our pros who we would all like to see continue giving input to the forum not be chased away from it because they happen to have a slightly differing view from others.
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