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Re: Brett Sutton Article [ZingUK] [ In reply to ]
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ZingUK wrote:
BDoughtie wrote:

I'm not even saying he's acting in any predatory like tendencies. But he's convicted of harming an minor and for you to justify it seemingly because the world is full of children and we can't ban him from all contact is troubling. When he is in an situation where others are willingly putting him in contact with minors/scholarly juniors, that is something that can be stopped.


I don't know why it's troubling, it is just a fact that unless you lock him up in cell he will come into contact with minors, that's not justifying anything he did and I've been vocal in here saying I fully agree that he shouldn't be coaching minors in any capacity but for me I have no issue with him coaching adults. I was also pointing no matter what job he does (short of him being locked in a cell as mentioned above) then there will inevitably be occassions he will come into contact with minors. I'm sorry but much as you would like it that is simply unavoidable in every day life irrespective of job. So you tell me what job you think he should do and how that job would prevent any interactions you deem unsuitable?

It troubles me some of the absolutist (and I'm not necessarily saying you) draconian views on this thread, many of these people would do well living in Saudi Arabi as that's also a pretty screwed up culture with absolutist tendancies

It's not inherently physical proximity to children that's a problem--it's having a position of power over children that's a big problem. An adult with power over a child can coerce the child into doing something that otherwise would take brute force. A couple of examples of powerful positions:
  • A school teacher has power over children, because he can adversely affect their grades.
  • A police officer has power over children, because he can threaten them with arrest.
  • A head coach has power over children, because he can threaten their place on a team.
Someone who has incidental proximity to children in a public place has no inherent power over them, and very little opportunity to harm them. A few examples:
  • A cashier will interact with children, but has no power over them, and the interaction is in a public place.
  • An architect might interact with clients' children (who accompany their parents to a meeting), but has no power over them. Plus their parents are present.
See the difference? One set of situations puts the children in a position of vulnerability; their well-being relies on trusting the adult. The second set does not increase their vulnerability; they're either in a public place, or they are accompanied by their parents.
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Re: Brett Sutton Article [ZingUK] [ In reply to ]
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It's clear to me that teamTBB is cool with sutton interacting or being involved in juniors as long as he is not directly coaching them. I just question an organization that gives him access in any manner. That's all. By continuing to coach adults it affords him the opportunity to actively engage with juniors in some type of advisor/management position. That's their company line with this. I was just surprised they allow him in any format to engage juniors.

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@brooksdoughtie
USAT-L2,Y&J; USAC-L2
http://www.aomultisport.com
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Re: Brett Sutton Article [BDoughtie] [ In reply to ]
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BDoughtie wrote:
So you have no issue with him taking 10 trips to brazil with the intent of working/producing a junior triathlon program? Again, I'm in no way saying what he can or can't do as a coach. But if you can't see that I think having him in situations that people are knowingly having him come in contact with juniors in a triathlon setting and excusing it because he is not "directly" coaching them is questionable, then I don't know what to tell you.

Again, I'm calling out his work and his continued questionable work with juniors that even teamTBB is ok'ing because he has no "direct" coaching. I don't think it's a good idea for him to work or be involved in any capacity with juniors. If that's totalitarian mindset, maybe that needs to be reexamined.

But I'm shocked people are saying its cool he is still involved with junior development within the sport because he isn't directly coaching youth.

Eta: I'm arguing the intent of allowing access to sutton in any junior capacity is wrong and I'd hope he'd not be allowed to interact with them in any capacity that relates to triathlon. He clearly is or has been still working with juniors in some capacity, I'm completly against that.

I think we have crossed wires Brookes, yes I have a problem with him going to Brazil if it is specifically or incidently to coach a junior triathlon programme as hands on coach. I have stated and will state again I do not think he should be coaching or working with minors in anyway.

If he is advising other coaches who then coach the kids without directly working with the kids I have no issue with that, I honeslty don't see how that can harm the kids if he's not there with them, irrespective of his past his ideas on coaching are still pertinent, whether you agree or disagree with his methods is an entirely seperate point.
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Re: Brett Sutton Article [avagoyamug] [ In reply to ]
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avagoyamug wrote:

TravisT wrote:


Just to add to the already disturbing things this guy writes, he is a triathlon "coach" and has a daughter.


Indeed I am and I do Sherlock. And I would leave my daughter with Brett Sutton in a heart beat. He made a mistake and I know he would never do harm to her or any other girl again. I have 100% confidence in that.


I would not however want her under the influence or regular presence of someone like yourself.

This is what Brett Sutton did to a 14 year old girl. It wasn't a mistake. It was premeditated. It was deliberate. It was intentional. And it happened on several occasions. You would trust your daughter with this person?! You seem to have some warped way of assessing the safety of your daughter.


"The first offence occurred when the swimmer was staying at Sutton's house, and the coach joined her in bed. 'She states that she was very scared and didn't know how to handle the situation and she knew it was wrong,' the prosecution said.


Another offence happened when Sutton was massaging the girl. 'As he was rubbing her leg he moved his hand further towards her groin and he put one of his fingers in her vagina,' the court was told.


The other counts included one where Sutton picked the girl up from school, took her to an underground car park and forced her to give him oral sex in the back of the van. 'She tried to lift her head but his hand was at the back of her head,' the court was told. 'She recalls him saying things like 'You're good at this'. She states that she felt like it was something she was supposed to be doing because he made her feel like it's the right thing to do.'

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Re: Brett Sutton Article [TravisT] [ In reply to ]
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TravisT wrote:
avagoyamug wrote:

TravisT wrote:


Just to add to the already disturbing things this guy writes, he is a triathlon "coach" and has a daughter.


Indeed I am and I do Sherlock. And I would leave my daughter with Brett Sutton in a heart beat. He made a mistake and I know he would never do harm to her or any other girl again. I have 100% confidence in that.


I would not however want her under the influence or regular presence of someone like yourself.


I feel bad for your daughter that you would feel comfortable leaving her with some who is a convicted child molester and who's victim said the kind of things about him that she did. Well on your way to father of the year award there. Not really surprising given your general attitude towards right and wrong when you're the kind of guy who feels no qualms abusing a race official and cutting a penalty in a race when you can get away with it and boasting after. I'm am as anti-religious and gun as they come but some things are simply right or wrong. Your concept of which is obviously skewed.


You are a very vindictive bitter and small minded and sad individual. Pretty messed up and for sure would not want my daughter to be exposed regularly to the way your mind works.

Glad you enjoyed my blog though! Bet that money shot of the 4.37 bike split burned. I can see how your moral compass is twisted all around when you are able to twist what happened and what I wrote into what you posted here.

You have zero credibility and would be best crawling back into your little hole.
Last edited by: avagoyamug: Jan 13, 13 13:24
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Re: Brett Sutton Article [aerobike] [ In reply to ]
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aerobike wrote:
avagoyamug wrote:

TravisT wrote:


Just to add to the already disturbing things this guy writes, he is a triathlon "coach" and has a daughter.


Indeed I am and I do Sherlock. And I would leave my daughter with Brett Sutton in a heart beat. He made a mistake and I know he would never do harm to her or any other girl again. I have 100% confidence in that.


I would not however want her under the influence or regular presence of someone like yourself.

This is what Brett Sutton did to a 14 year old girl. It wasn't a mistake. It was premeditated. It was deliberate. It was intentional. And it happened on several occasions. You would trust your daughter with this person?! You seem to have some warped way of assessing the safety of your daughter.


"The first offence occurred when the swimmer was staying at Sutton's house, and the coach joined her in bed. 'She states that she was very scared and didn't know how to handle the situation and she knew it was wrong,' the prosecution said.


Another offence happened when Sutton was massaging the girl. 'As he was rubbing her leg he moved his hand further towards her groin and he put one of his fingers in her vagina,' the court was told.


The other counts included one where Sutton picked the girl up from school, took her to an underground car park and forced her to give him oral sex in the back of the van. 'She tried to lift her head but his hand was at the back of her head,' the court was told. 'She recalls him saying things like 'You're good at this'. She states that she felt like it was something she was supposed to be doing because he made her feel like it's the right thing to do.'

You do realize this was one incident 30 some years ago? There are many life long paedophiles who should be kept away from kids at all costs.

It's face palmingly obvious that Sutton is not one of them.

The Slow-Twit lynch mob still won't miss a chance to gather together on their horses flame in hand, ready to string up whoever has been designated the witch of the day.

Pathetic.
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Re: Brett Sutton Article [BDoughtie] [ In reply to ]
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BDoughtie wrote:
No offense but seeing how you have done nothing to identify yourself in the forum, whether you think he is a risk or not a risk, does it really mean much?

Now if you want to identify yourself and how you are relevant to this particular issue, then your view would atleast hold some validity. Until then not so much.

ETA: and my view means very little, but if we can have an discussion on the topic then if you are willing to say he isn't a risk without identifying how you can verify that, then it's really an non point.


Does anything all the chest thumpers say on this forum mean very much? Identified or not?

Just because I have a different point of view to the lynch mob you expect me to identify and justify myself? Why don't you ask these who would burn him at the stake for something he did 30 years ago to justify their stance? Sutton is obviously not a life long paedophile. They leave a trail in their wake. It was a one off. The group think here wont accept that, but it's the bare cold truth.
Last edited by: avagoyamug: Jan 13, 13 13:25
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Re: Brett Sutton Article [TravisT] [ In reply to ]
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TravisT wrote:
avagoyamug wrote:

TravisT wrote:


Just to add to the already disturbing things this guy writes, he is a triathlon "coach" and has a daughter.


Indeed I am and I do Sherlock. And I would leave my daughter with Brett Sutton in a heart beat. He made a mistake and I know he would never do harm to her or any other girl again. I have 100% confidence in that.


I would not however want her under the influence or regular presence of someone like yourself.


I feel bad for your daughter that you would feel comfortable leaving her with some who is a convicted child molester and who's victim said the kind of things about him that she did. Well on your way to father of the year award there. Not really surprising given your general attitude towards right and wrong when you're the kind of guy who feels no qualms abusing a race official and cutting a penalty in a race when you can get away with it and boasting after. I'm am as anti-religious and gun as they come but some things are simply right or wrong. Your concept of which is obviously skewed.


You seem to be very quick to defend Michael Weiss and other dopers though? You are the one with the twisted morality you sad little vindictive red neck wannabe bully. Keep searching me online, and try and find some more dirt on me. Seems like you have a history of passing your time that way. Knock yourself out.
Last edited by: avagoyamug: Jan 13, 13 13:30
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Re: Brett Sutton Article [BDoughtie] [ In reply to ]
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After reading all the apoligies for him I'm just sickened. Parents lined up to have their kids coached by Cecil Russell just shows how morals go out the window when advancement is on the line. The grey area with Russell is his top swimmers are his own kids.

___________________________________________
http://en.wikipedia.org/...eoesophageal_fistula
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cerebral_palsy
2020 National Masters Champion - M40-44 - 400m IM
Canadian Record Holder 35-39M & 40-44M - 200 m Butterfly (LCM)
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Re: Brett Sutton Article [avagoyamug] [ In reply to ]
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Can we all step away from making all of this personal and the name calling and refrain from the personal bashing and instead just engage in an intellectual discussion about the topic at hand?


If we can summarize this thread (or the discussion that spawned after the OP):

  • Sutton banned from coaching any age group in Oz for his crime in the past
  • By all accounts he has not repeated his crime.
  • He has chosen to coach in countries that don't care to reciprocate (or can't reciprocate) the Aussie coaching ban
  • Almost everyone who posted agrees that he should not coach minors
  • Some also say (just like Triathlon Australia) that he should not coach any age group, having transgressed a fundamental responsibility of a coach
  • Other feel that everyone deserves a second chance in life, and to reform, and once reform they should be able to return in a limited capacity to their profession (in this case coaching), provided that he is not put in a position where he was when he committed the crime on the first round (coach minors).
  • Lots of high caliber athletes ranging from Chrissie Wellington down to entry level pros have entrusted their athletic development to him at some point in their career knowing the background and either believing in second chances, or putting their career growth ahead of that and being willing to look beyond that based on the man they have engaged with "today"
  • Team TBB has entrusted the head coach position in their organization to him noting the past and believing in second chances. According to TBB, he does not directly coach any minors in their athlete development program. Many on ST feel that his position at the helm of the organization still provides him with a position of authority over these minors and are against it.
  • Finally as Mr. Bok mentioned, Sutton is gradually moving away from hands on coaching, sadly due to health not being optimal (I think we can all agree that we wish all humans good health...at least I hope so).

Did I miss anything in the last ~ 100 posts?
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Re: Brett Sutton Article [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
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Yes, based on the picture of Sutton surrounded by underage children, he clearly is in close proximity to children in an official TBB capacity.

Styrrell
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Re: Brett Sutton Article [styrrell] [ In reply to ]
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styrrell wrote:
Yes, based on the picture of Sutton surrounded by underage children, he clearly is in close proximity to children in an official TBB capacity.
i have a picture i took with then president clinton. i guess that means i am/was involved in an official capacity with the presidency?
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Re: Brett Sutton Article [avagoyamug] [ In reply to ]
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Just because I have a different point of view to the lynch mob you expect me to identify and justify myself?

_______________

When you make a point that you know for certain Sutton isnt a risk, you lose all credibility when you then dont really identify yourself. So that was why I was asking, it would help if we could understand why you make that point. Now if you simply want to make a counter point, sure it doesn't really matter, but when you make an assertive statement like you did, well it would help if it had a face behind the answer so to speak. I guess what I'm asking is, who are you to make that type of statement? Considering you didnt really go into detail on how you came about that statement, thus I was suggesting, it would help. But if you dont want to, no worries, just makes it a very hollow statement/point.

ETA: I dont really care if you identify yourself or not, but if you make a point that you know for certain of his risk, it certainly helps to let others know why you feel so certain of that statement. Thus, why I thought it would be more helpful if you identified how you can be so certain that Sutton isnt a risk. It atleast gives some background to your message. I think you stated you were a coach in another post, so I'm assuming you have worked with him in some recent capacity.

------------------
@brooksdoughtie
USAT-L2,Y&J; USAC-L2
http://www.aomultisport.com
Last edited by: BDoughtie: Jan 13, 13 13:54
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Re: Brett Sutton Article [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
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devashish_paul wrote:
Can we all step away from making all of this personal and the name calling and refrain from the personal bashing and instead just engage in an intellectual discussion about the topic at hand?


If we can summarize this thread (or the discussion that spawned after the OP):

  • Sutton banned from coaching any age group in Oz for his crime in the past
  • By all accounts he has not repeated his crime.
  • He has chosen to coach in countries that don't care to reciprocate (or can't reciprocate) the Aussie coaching ban
  • Almost everyone who posted agrees that he should not coach minors
  • Some also say (just like Triathlon Australia) that he should not coach any age group, having transgressed a fundamental responsibility of a coach
  • Other feel that everyone deserves a second chance in life, and to reform, and once reform they should be able to return in a limited capacity to their profession (in this case coaching), provided that he is not put in a position where he was when he committed the crime on the first round (coach minors).
  • Lots of high caliber athletes ranging from Chrissie Wellington down to entry level pros have entrusted their athletic development to him at some point in their career knowing the background and either believing in second chances, or putting their career growth ahead of that and being willing to look beyond that based on the man they have engaged with "today"
  • Team TBB has entrusted the head coach position in their organization to him noting the past and believing in second chances. According to TBB, he does not directly coach any minors in their athlete development program. Many on ST feel that his position at the helm of the organization still provides him with a position of authority over these minors and are against it.
  • Finally as Mr. Bok mentioned, Sutton is gradually moving away from hands on coaching, sadly due to health not being optimal (I think we can all agree that we wish all humans good health...at least I hope so).

Did I miss anything in the last ~ 100 posts?


And the fact that keeping Sutton from coaching children is to prevent the suggestion of impropriety those who know the man and a lot about his history know there is no actual risk to the child.
Last edited by: avagoyamug: Jan 13, 13 14:21
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Re: Brett Sutton Article [BDoughtie] [ In reply to ]
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BDoughtie wrote:
Just because I have a different point of view to the lynch mob you expect me to identify and justify myself?

_______________

When you make a point that you know for certain Sutton isnt a risk, you lose all credibility when you then dont really identify yourself. So that was why I was asking, it would help if we could understand why you make that point. Now if you simply want to make a counter point, sure it doesn't really matter, but when you make an assertive statement like you did, well it would help if it had a face behind the answer so to speak. I guess what I'm asking is, who are you to make that type of statement? Considering you didnt really go into detail on how you came about that statement, thus I was suggesting, it would help. But if you dont want to, no worries, just makes it a very hollow statement/point.

ETA: I dont really care if you identify yourself or not, but if you make a point that you know for certain of his risk, it certainly helps to let others know why you feel so certain of that statement. Thus, why I thought it would be more helpful if you identified how you can be so certain that Sutton isnt a risk. It atleast gives some background to your message. I think you stated you were a coach in another post, so I'm assuming you have worked with him in some recent capacity.

Who are the faceless judges who want to wring him up and are grandiose about how shocked and disgusted they are?

I am just using a touch of common sense to state that Sutton is no longer a risk. Read about him for a while use some rational, non-emotional thought processes and I find it hard that anyone could come up with any other opinion.
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Re: Brett Sutton Article [avagoyamug] [ In reply to ]
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Wow.

___________________________________________
http://en.wikipedia.org/...eoesophageal_fistula
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cerebral_palsy
2020 National Masters Champion - M40-44 - 400m IM
Canadian Record Holder 35-39M & 40-44M - 200 m Butterfly (LCM)
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Re: Brett Sutton Article [avagoyamug] [ In reply to ]
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I sat down and read about him for 2 hours last night. I think he's done amazing things and has alot to offer coaches. He'd be a great resource with dealing with the dangers of coaching juniors. While reading about him on his team website, it shocked me that he's still allowed to work with juniors in the capacity he does now. I would have thought/assumed that he and the people around him would simply say "I cant be around this environment" and not have any episodes that put him in contact with juniors within the sport. But as you say, he seems to be a low/no risk (ETA: but how do we really know) and because he doenst directly coach juniors, he's given what teamTBB thinks is the appropriate degree of contact with juniors. I just think that's complete BS. But you and others think it's the appropriate sanctions that it's enough as long as he doesnt "directly" coach juniors. So he can be in a room full of 30 junior athletes with another coach, and he can do PR shoots for his team with juniors, but as long as that 1-1 isnt there, it's apparently ok? That to me is unfortunate for everyone involved.

ETA: I understand your point of view. I think in this type of instance and setting, when an junior athlete is harmed, I dont think there really is ever a 2nd chance. That's only in terms of working/developing junior athletes, but for you and some, that designation seemingly has to be defined. For me, there is no definition, if an junior athlete is part of the program, I would atleast think that said coach simply cant be part of that program. You disagree, and fair enough. I'm curious what junior program teamTBB started in the US. I looked on the website, and couldnt really find much info on it.

------------------
@brooksdoughtie
USAT-L2,Y&J; USAC-L2
http://www.aomultisport.com
Last edited by: BDoughtie: Jan 13, 13 14:25
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Re: Brett Sutton Article [MeltingPot] [ In reply to ]
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Thats an incredibly bad analogy. The Sutton pic was from TBB talking about Brett Suttons involvement. A better analogy would be if you said MeltingPot has never met President Clinton, then had the pic of you and him shaking hands on your FB age.

Styrrell
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Re: Brett Sutton Article [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
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I wish I would have posted this earlier as I think it may have done a little bit clarify my own feelings and help educate others. At this point I think it will only reach an ever dwindling list of viewers who are entrenched in their positions but it may help just a little.

We have spent much of this thread talking about/criticizing Sutton and the people who support him but have not spent a lot of time talking about the victim other than the "she's fine" thing.

I work exclusively with children and teens in my profession. I see these victims on a regular basis and I see the psychological impact that these crimes produce. They are not benign instances that victims move away from over time. They have a lifelong impact on their self image, their intimate relationships and their ongoing sexual development.

I agree with most of what Bok said regarding his wife's experience. Victims do need to come to terms with the anger and shame and other strong emotions that are associated with their victimization. That is the process of healing. It is the only way to heal but that does not make it go away. Even after processing the emotional aspects (which usually takes years if not decades) they are left with the memories of the abuse. They are forever (yes, forever) left with the images of the abuse and on a likely daily basis face some environmental cue that could trigger these memories (a song, a smell, a spoken phrase). They pay a LIFELONG price for another's "indiscretion".

Often times women don't even begin to come to terms with what has happened to them until decades later (30, 40 yrs later). Often times they just try to forget about it and "go on with their lives". But after their children have left the home and their life has slowed down (maybe retired) it is often harder to keep the thoughts away and they start having significant problems. Anxiety, depression, nightmares, symptoms of PTSD, etc. And their quality of life diminishing greatly. Often times this can be triggered by the death of the abuser or other emotional triggers. They often seek help but sometimes do not. My own mother was a victim of abuse at the hands of her Stepfather (at around the age of Sutton"s victim). He messed with her sister as well. So he had "only" two victims. And she had a great life. Two wonderful kids (if I may say so myself), many friends and a good husband. She worked hard, often with two jobs and was very active in civic groups. But once we left and her life slowed, she started having severe panic attacks (often hiding in a closet at her work). It was at this time that she disclosed she was a victim and that these thoughts/memories were becoming more prominent. I have seen the same with other women during my Adult training.

Child victims often have much more complex and lifelong problems than adult victims of rape (not downplaying that at all). They often feel responsible for the act ("I shouldn't have done xyz") and therefore carry significantly more guilt and shame. 25% of American women (yes, that high) have been molested in some way as children. And 90% of child victims are abused by people they know, trust and even love so this betrayal often has a lifelong impact on their ability to form intimate relationships and this can often lead to significant self loathing and self abuse (etoh, drugs, sabotaging relationship for fear if intimacy). And a victim of a prominent personality in the community further complicates their feelings and ability to overcome because they have deal with things like- "That Sutton is such a great guy". "Who wouldn't you like to be coached by Sutton". "Man, I would love to work the that guy, he's the best". Try swallowing that pill on a routine basis. And I'm sure that happens ALL the time to this woman who is married to "top Australian triathlete" who hangs out with nothing but triathletes who undoubtedly do not know that she was Sutton's victim. Wonder is she tries to avoid these situations?

Child victims are at significantly increased risk of developing a depressive disorder, an anxiety disorder, an eating disorder and a substance abuse disorder (often occurring in conjunction). Not to mention the expected Post Traumatic Stress Disorder. And this is an increased LIFETIME risk. Not for a couple of years but FOREVER! There is no way to predict what effect this event will have on this woman 10, 20 yrs from NOW. Hopefully nothing as I would like to hope that she has gotten the help she has needed.

Is a child molester who has a single victim a different breed than a serial offender. "I" would say yes. But no matter who many victims a child molester leaves in his wake to the victim of the abuse there is always only one victim. "Me".

Should Sutton be "forgiven"? That is up to the victim and how she chooses to process and work through her feelings (and hopefully she is/has getting help). But his actions shouldn't be forgotten.

Should he be chased from all professions and be a beggar on the street. No. Does he deserve to have a happy life, kids a successful career. Some would say yes. Some no. I think he does but with same sort of frequent reminders of his actions that his victim likely has.

Should Sutton face a lifetime of having to frequently respond to his past crime. Absolutely. And should those who support him (Brandon, Jordan, et al.) be required to justify why they support him and possibly get ridiculed and get "angry that this keeps coming up". Absolutely. They know his history and therefore "took on" the criticism. Should people who employ him be forced to come on ST and other venues to make defenses for his employment. And should those that employ him be policed to ensure that he does not have contact with minors. Absolutely.

These things do not "hurt" Sutton. Are they annoying to people who support him and maybe to him. Probably. But that is also the price that he has to pay for his past crime. Many criminals face a lifetime of "annoying things". Parole, not being able to vote, not purchasing firearms, etc. I think it is very justified and necessary that this continues to resurface. It is an equitable punishment for molesting a child who now has to deal with the fallout for the rest of HER life. And HE should face a lifetime of scrutiny just as she has to face of lifetime of memories. Again, this does not "hurt" Sutton. Annoying, frustrating sure but he's obviously "doing fine" so to speak. Should his "quality of life" be a little bit less than others. Absolutely. Similar to his victims "quality of life" likely being a little less due to memories, need for therapy, difficulty with relationships, etc.

And based solely on information gained from this post (accounts of the actual molestation, disregard for sanctions, etc). I have my doubts that he is actually repentant. I would be more convinced if he started a non-profit to help teen victims of abuse or was instrumental in developing a sport wide youth monitoring/reporting system in his native Australia or other country that would demonstrate that he has an understanding of how much damage he has done and was actively engaged in preventing it from happening to others. I have not heard of such but would be much more convinced that he has that understanding if this were so.

Should he be able to coach. Sure. Should he (and those that support him) continue to receive criticism for a crime (or their support) that permanently changed someone's life. Absolutely. Sounds like a MORE than fair trade off. Others may say differently.
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Re: Brett Sutton Article [BDoughtie] [ In reply to ]
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What part of "he doesn't work with chidren anymore" do you not understand?

Alex came here to explain how it works, and you guys are still bringing up your belief (based on one photo, really?) that he works with children still.

Apparently, he is working with up-and-coming coaches, so that they can benefit from his vast knowledge of coaching in Triathlon, so that ultimately many kids benefit from it down the line. In the process (while travelling to Brazil or some other place to work with those coaches), he did a photo with the kids.

Also, most people who have met him, talked to him, interacted with him, all seem to be willing to give him a second chance. It is of course much easier to take the super hard stance that some of you do when you don't know anything about the person (and/or also in many cases not knowing the finer details of what happened 25 years ago, and what has happened since).

Anyway, keep flaming away.
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Re: Brett Sutton Article [TravisT] [ In reply to ]
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I have kept quiet on this forum for the past 3 years, as it wasn’t for me.

Today I will come clean with you all about some things that need to be cleared once and for all.

I have been involved in the sport of triathlon for 16 years. Ten years while I was a banking executive where I simply trained 12-15 hours a week besides an 80-hour working week to keep my life a little in balance. I had no coach, I did not read a magazines, I happily did not know about slowtwitch and I was just an average triathlete happy to complete a race, work and love his wife, family and friends.

Over a span of 17 years, I did well in banking and reached the title of Managing Director in the largest bank in South East Asia earning a little fortune each year, but I was not happy. The higher the ranks in banking I reached, the more I started to see of the system it is and the less I liked what I was part of. The credit card and unsecured lending business we implemented and operated across Asia at exorbitant interest rates, providing loans to gamblers, taxi drivers, young people who got into deep trouble with their lives because of banks pushing these products into the lives of people who should not receive them. The long and short, we were robbing people and pushing them to the edge, and I wont’ go into what I’ve seen in the banking world the past few years as everyone one of you have been able to see for yourself how the greed as reached levels we can not comprehend and it will continue until we finally stop accepting fines to financial institution, but do what should be done: criminal prosecution of those that get caught!

So I left banking in 2006 and started a bike store The Bike Boutique in Singapore. We introduced a bike-to-work concept (bikelodging) and the store started to do very well. We opened stores in other countries and cities and we were on track to actually franchise the concept oversees. In order to create a much wider brand reach, I wanted to sponsor a team and picked triathlon as the right sport for it. But more important than the TBB bike stores, the environmental drive was my strong desire to give back to those in need through sports. A few people actively introduced me to a man called Brett Sutton. I did not know the man, I did not recognize one athlete he had ever trained except for Greg and Laura Bennett who I once met at the Phuket Laguna Triathlon, I did not know his past.

We spoke for a few times on the phone and initially I could not even get past his Australian accent, but Brett had a vision about life, a desire to help people, a bit of dislike of corporate people like me who were all out filling their own pockets at the expense of others.

I liked what I heard, as I had gotten to a point in my life that I wanted to make sure my life had a more meaningful purpose, was filled with more love and compassion instead of material possessions. I wanted to live a life that could enable me to contribute beyond myself.

Two months before a meeting we were trying to set up, I started to do some research on the coach and person Brett Sutton online. I was shocked when I first read all the articles on the internet and trust me I read more than any one of you have ever read on him.

I spoke to many male and female athletes from the past and present who had been in contact with Brett throughout their career. I spoke to coaches involved, studied the actual court case and proceedings. I discussed the topic many times with my wife who is victim of sexual, emotional and physical abuse herself.

I decided to meet the man with some 15 people of all walks of life to see if we could define in a 1-page document a common vision of what we wanted to achieve, our mission, our values, what we wanted to offer, to who and what would be our ultimate commitment. At the same time, this also allowed me to get to know in-depth the person so many people on this forum rather see burried than alive.

During these meetings, I heard athletes like Bella Bayliss, Reinaldo Colucci, Rebecca Preston and Stephen Bayliss talk about this man Brett Sutton. Not many on this forum will understand what their coach has meant for them in their lives. Just like you can ask any of your favorite female triathlon athletes to come on this forum and explain what this broken man has meant to them, not just as an athlete, but as a human being, it would not help some of the eternal cynics here to even listen and open their hearts for just a second. Brett himself has asked all of his athletes to never write anything on this or any other forum, as he felt they should not defend him because he feels he is guilty as charged.

So back to December 2006, I took another 3 days of non-stop to talk with Brett Sutton one-on-one, I asked him any question that I wanted to ask, he explained in every detail to me about his upbringing, his life, his problems, his achievements, his regrets, his pain and the circumstances under which he made the biggest mistake in his life ever. I wanted to know, not the high level stuff, but EVERY detail, so I could form my opinion about this man, his sins, his true desire to help others, his passion for his little girls, 3 kids and his wife and just THE FACTS. After a few more days I invited Brett Sutton to my house, so my wife, a victim herself, a pshychologist and a person that turned the pain of her experiences into a super powerful way of healing herself and running a successful practice (www.healingtransformations.com) where she now helps other victims to overcome their pain and horror.

To my surprise, my wife who is extremely intuitive about people, told me after one hour “Alex, you should work with Brett as he is a very special man and he is serious about helping other people, with one and one intend only: to do good for people and to help him make up for the mistake he has made in his life. He is NOT a repeat offender, he is NOT a predator, he is NOT a child molester. He is a smart man, with some serious problems in his youth, he run into trouble into his mid twenties and made a fatal mistake under the pressure and like man do at times, he followed his dick and not his mind. Alex, I know he is not what some people on the internet are trying to portrait him as, you have my blessing and support to work with him”.

Would I ever want to hurt my wife, who I love dearly and has been exposed to 6 years of abuse and had turned her life around in a miraculous manner herself?

She has never done a triathlon, knew nothing about the people Brett has coached to become world champions, and she did not care about that at all, she simply looked at his heart and the chance he could make the same mistake again.

I decided by mid December 2006 I was going to work with Brett Sutton in teamTBB and asked him also to advise me on business and social program matters, as Brett had set up more social sports programs than most people in triathlon will ever do. Brett understand the sport of triathlon better than any and on a very profound level that goes way further than some private equity funds guys who just try to make a quick buck out of this lifestyle sport.

It’s a lot easier for me today to come clean about all this, as now 6 years later I have closed my business thanks to a morally bankrupt company called WTC for not honoring a signed 5 year agreement for my business to operate all Ironman Stores in Asia Pacific based on a profit split arrangement. So there is no more business called TBB.

All that is left is teamTBB as a social program and non-profit organization with a mission to improve the lives of youth around the world by providing hope and opportunity through sports. TBB really means The Best we can Be and we say NO to Drugs, we say NO to Violence, we say NO to obesity and will expand teamTBB to take this message into more and more communities around the world. We use triathlon as a vehicle to spread the message, but our program is a lot less about triathlon than many people are aware of. The fact our team produces about 1 in 4 ironman champions around the world has made the public think at times, all we care about is winning more race.

So let me be very clear with any one on this forum, and for me that means first and foremost I care about any one that is victim him or herself of sexual abuse. I really can’t be bothered about the handful of guys (you know who you are) that love to beat up just any one on a forum under a hidden name, and often cry in their hearts as the only place they can be a hero is here on an anonymous basis.

I’m NOT defending Brett Sutton, nor any person that committed a similar or worse act, I strongly as possible disapprove of it!

I hold the highest respect for the dignity of women, not to even say the dignity of a child.

In my previous answer I addressed from my heart my response to victims across the world.

I want to believe that deep down inside, everyone who has attacked Brett in this forum wants the absolute truth and justice and I respect that.

So therefore, please allow me to respond now to those attacking Brett and ask ourselves if deep down inside what we want is the truth or to just continue to attack a human being who, when transgressed, did not defend himself by attacking but humbly admitted his enormous wrong and accepted the consequences it would bring.

AGAIN, I don't excuse Brett in any way, but I often ask myself if in that position would I have taken the high road he did or would I had tried to somehow justify or find reasons for my transgression, KNOWING that I would be thrown in a basket that does not really tells all the truth.

I pray that everyone in this forum who attacked Brett deep down inside seek within themselves if their aim is to expose a predator in their mind or is there any other motive.

Without diminishing the seriousness of his offence or trying to defend Brett in any way shape or form, for the sake of truth, honesty and transparency allow me now to address some words being used in this forum.

When we call a person a predator, a rapist and a child molester, we need to ask ourselves if those words are truly representative of the person we are giving those terms to.

In the case of Brett Sutton, a 27-year old coach who abused his position of authority as a coach with a 14-year old swimmer is wrong and will never be justified! But to call Brett a predator, child molester now after 27 years of showing he is anything but that, after 27 years of coaching some of the most public female athletes of our sport’s history, athletes that love Brett and athletes that don't like Brett. Female Athletes that have giving him their whole trust and have placed their careers in his hands and whom today say all kinds of things when talking about Brett, some good, some bad, BUT NONE have ever called him a child molester, a predator or rapist. In the contrary EVERY SINGLE one of these female athletes have said the contrary. Every single one of these female athletes knew about his past at the get go, not in retrospect.

Thus, we can say that Brett Sutton committed a horrible mistake, but that he one day as a 27 year old young man premeditated to go on an rape someone, no one will ever say this, not his endorsers or his attackers if we all seek truth.

It’s hard for me to understand, or anyone who has ever taken the time to know the man, to ever look at him in the light that his attackers look at him. Its sad that in a world where we have all fallen short of what is expected of us, in a world that everyone, without exception, has done things in their youth that we regret with all our hearts, in a world where convicted murders are set free because the system says that they have changed, in a world where we would like to think that every human being is owed another chance, we cant forgive, or even look deep at all the facts, and give a broken man a second chance.

What we need to be asking ourselves is what has happened in the 27 years since Brett chose not to defend himself (going against the advice of many around him at that time), chose to suffer the consequences of his actions for life. What we find is a simple broken men with a great gift to create great athletes but more important to care of about them as human beings. A coach who has invested in the lives of hundreds of athletes, great ones and mediocre ones at the same time, and for WHAT? Riches, well, I am here to vouch that Brett Sutton lives in a humble apartment and drives a car that the majority of us would not be caught dead in and not enough money for his wife to pay two months of bills should he pass. A man who does what he does simply because he loves our sport and loves people. This is not a predator, this is not a child molester this a broken human being who made a horrible mistake, and who has lived 27 years after this mistake in the pain of hearing these horrible titles given to him.

I have learned the internet is both a great tool and also a devastating weapon that can be used on people who can not defend themselves. This forum is at times a very good example of the dangers of that weapon, as articles of the past are freely passed as if it happened yesterday, while in fact it was 27 years ago. You can say “hey it happened!” and I respond “Yes it did, and it’s said it happened!” But people, if people no matter what they did are not given a second chance, if we can’t open the door to our heart to any one that made a mistake, then those people should ask themselves if they never made a mistake and if they would not want to be forgiven for their sins likewise.

God knows that we will all be judged by our actions and how we impact the live of another human being for the good or the bad. If what Brett did he had done again, just one more time, I would not ever be associated with him, but as hard as it was for me to learn what he had done, it has been a journey to know this man and every day be impacted by the quality of human being he is.

I ask everyone here today to ask themselves if their life is so pure, clean and beyond reproach that we have the right to attack the character of another simple, broken human being who made a horrible mistake, and not justify it, nor defended himself but admitted the wrong, took the penalty, suffered and suffers the consequences and for 27 years has shown us everything and anything but that he is a child molester or predator. Where does forgiveness begin, where does redemption begin, we who attack and accuse others with such malignancy must know that one day we will be in that same mirror.

Before I finish, I like to ask the same people who had the guts to explore a bit deeper than most such as Brandon March, Jordan Rapp or Johnny O, who now get beaten up or attacked too because they so called “support Brett Sutton”.

These 3 guys all explored much more who this guy Brett Sutton REALLY IS, what he stands for, what he does in life, what he does for other people and then they objectively try to put a bit of perspective into the conversation. What do they get back? They receive total disrespect, rage, anger and all sorts of rocks thrown to their heads.

Like me they are NOT approving of Brett Sutton’s past, they just tried to look beyond the perceived problem and got into contact with this man themselves and simply experienced he is a guy who passionately helps people who like him to help. The have seen this broken man happened to understand one trick really well, and that is to help people become the best they can be and in the process he created more champions than any other coach in this sport.

I personally have never met Jordan and we never emailed or spoke. I read his posting and think he is a very smart and gifted human being. So does he write about Brett Sutton because he is not smart enough to see the problem of the past? Does Jordan talk with a little bit of more understanding about Brett because he needs Brett or his coaching skills? Does Jordan just think a bit deeper and further about life? Has Jordan experienced something not many people have in this life, which is a near death experience, that when he survived enabled him to look life from a slight different perspective?

I don’t have the answer, but just like me Jordan will for sure NOT APPROVE what Brett Sutton did in the past. But Jordon did OPEN THE DOOR TO HIS HEART for a man he had heard about from various sources he respects, who all had direct personal interaction with Brett Sutton and who all explained him that Brett had positively impacted their lives in one way or the other.

With one email, I can invite and possibly convince about 20 of the world’s best female triathletes come out in public on this forum to explain who Brett Sutton really is, what this broken man has meant for them in this life and these would be the very same female athletes that are adored by so many triathlon fans around the world including the majority of this forum users.

But what’s the point to hurt athletes or females to people who just love throwing rocks, who never took the time like people such as Johnny O, Brandon Marsh, Jordan Rapp or myself to learn more about this broken man, who in fact are so cold hearted that it scares me at times to even come and watch some of the forum messages I read here.

I have come clean today with forum users who are a victim, I simply honor you and hope you too can turn your fear into power, and pain into passion. I hope you understand I do not disrespect what happened to you nor to my own wife, I have learned first hand the pain these experiences can cause. I work with Brett Sutton, because I know he is NOT a repeat offender. I work with him not for commercial reasons, but to impact live of people in need. I hope you too can overcome the pain and grief of your past experiences and if ever we meet let me know if I can help.

For the eternal cynics and rock-throwers beyond comprehension on this forum, don’t worry about your response, this is the last time I have ever wrote a post or visited this forum, as there are so much better ways to spend my time in a meaningful manner. I just pray for you to never face what Brett Sutton experiences every few days, as if only you knew, you would not wish that to your worse enemy.

To the victim of Brett Sutton and her family, I hope you accept what I wrote today about Brett and the rational for working with him, as I believe YOUR pain has driven Brett to become a better human being than most will give him credit for, he truly is sorry for what has happened to you as a result of his actions, but in the process he has impacted so many peoples lives with his passion, life experiences and wise insights. I wish you happiness and peace in your life.

Yours in Sports

Alex
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Re: Brett Sutton Article [Diabolo] [ In reply to ]
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I guess I'd have to ask, when did that go into affect. Was that 1st of Jan 2013, was that summer of 2012? Was it from the start of Sutton and Bok's relationship?

I'm actually not bringing up from an photo. I'm bringing it up from Sutton's on view point of his interactions with the Brazil junior team.

"Brett, I been up there, lots of doctorates, lots of big levels, lots of big talk, but if I add up all the people together, their results, well they don't equal the result that is down here in the pool. Brett, I'm a sportsman - I may not be a great coach yet - but if I want to be one, I am at the right room, the results are here walking up and down the pool with his athletes, not up in the room making big noise."
So, this was the meeting that changed my life.
He asked, would I come to Brazil for one time, do a lecture and help his team. He had contact with Rob Pickard (former national coaching director for Triathlon Australia), and Rob had come and advised he talk to me. So, I said, one time. He said he had no money, but big BBQ, best in the world. He said he would find a sponsor for the air ticket, and I come just once.
Well that "once" turned into 10 or 11 times, who's counting? and cost me plenty of money and good athletes over time, but it paid me back so much more. It changed me.
Cali, you see, would take off from training sometimes, saying he will be back later. Then I would see him loading rice and pasta in his car, and taking money off some people, and I thought, ok what was this, I needed to ask him what was going on.
So I did, and he said, "Oh nothing much, but I am the president of this little charity I run", so I helped him load the rice and pasta and he took me to this little school type building and to 30 or so smiling little kids running around having a great time, and out to the kitchen, where some ladies like you see in the movies with headbands and a big wooden spoon, cooking away, and admonishing the wild kids running, no, frolicking around the building. And there was Cali talking, kicking a ball with the boys, bringing old 2nd-hand dolls to the girls, and headbands and earrings.

http://www.teamtbb.com./...task=view&id=271


You are probaly right in that he's working more with coaches to develop the talent/teamwork to create an fantastic team that can develop juniors (they have done with the development of the PATCO champion who beat our American for the PATCO olympic spot). So maybe that article is really old and maybe it's fairly new, I dont know (it doesnt have a published date). But what it does show is that at some point within the framework of the teamTBB, Sutton was able to interact with children. Again he wasnt "coaching" but if you want to say that that type of contact is allowable, then just say it. Again, this is all from their own info. I've never said he shouldnt get a 2nd chance. I've simply said that his interaction with children directly to me is where I dont think he should be allowed. This is all info from their own site. So I'm in no way trying to say he's doing something that hasnt been mentioned, so please refrain from saying, I'm making some info up about him working with kids.

------------------
@brooksdoughtie
USAT-L2,Y&J; USAC-L2
http://www.aomultisport.com
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Re: Brett Sutton Article [Bok] [ In reply to ]
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"I ask everyone here today to ask themselves if their life is so pure, clean and beyond reproach that we have the right to attack the character of another simple, broken human being who made a horrible mistake, and not justify it, nor defended himself but admitted the wrong, took the penalty, suffered and suffers the consequences and for 27 years has shown us everything and anything but that he is a child molester or predator"

You see, here's the simple problem, Jordan openly admitted that Brett didn't "take the penalty". He violated both the letter and the spirit of his penalty and was forcably removed from races during his ban.

This isn't the case of a man who made a mistake and has been repentant for it, his "mistake" shouldn't be described in the singular, it was a pattern of predatory behavior.



Portside Athletics Blog
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Re: Brett Sutton Article [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
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good summery maybe you should add.

-By all accounts he has not repeated his crime, in the last 30 years.

-Some also say (just like Triathlon Australia) that he should not coach any age group, having transgressed a fundamental responsibility of a coach. On the other hand, one triathlon federation has hired him a few years ago ( not for minor aged people).





devashish_paul wrote:
Can we all step away from making all of this personal and the name calling and refrain from the personal bashing and instead just engage in an intellectual discussion about the topic at hand?


If we can summarize this thread (or the discussion that spawned after the OP):

  • Sutton banned from coaching any age group in Oz for his crime in the past
  • By all accounts he has not repeated his crime.
  • He has chosen to coach in countries that don't care to reciprocate (or can't reciprocate) the Aussie coaching ban
  • Almost everyone who posted agrees that he should not coach minors
  • Some also say (just like Triathlon Australia) that he should not coach any age group, having transgressed a fundamental responsibility of a coach
  • Other feel that everyone deserves a second chance in life, and to reform, and once reform they should be able to return in a limited capacity to their profession (in this case coaching), provided that he is not put in a position where he was when he committed the crime on the first round (coach minors).
  • Lots of high caliber athletes ranging from Chrissie Wellington down to entry level pros have entrusted their athletic development to him at some point in their career knowing the background and either believing in second chances, or putting their career growth ahead of that and being willing to look beyond that based on the man they have engaged with "today"
  • Team TBB has entrusted the head coach position in their organization to him noting the past and believing in second chances. According to TBB, he does not directly coach any minors in their athlete development program. Many on ST feel that his position at the helm of the organization still provides him with a position of authority over these minors and are against it.
  • Finally as Mr. Bok mentioned, Sutton is gradually moving away from hands on coaching, sadly due to health not being optimal (I think we can all agree that we wish all humans good health...at least I hope so).

Did I miss anything in the last ~ 100 posts?
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Re: Brett Sutton Article [Bok] [ In reply to ]
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Alex,

I want to thank you for coming here and providing a very sincere and open response to the discussion on this thread. I can see from the quality of your response, why you would have made a small fortune in the financial sector, and also why you have moved on to trying to do good and positively impact people around the world with your life. Sorry to hear that whatever arrangement you had with WTC with your chain of stores did not work out. I remember when you came on here years ago before you planned to open the Hong Kong location talking about hiring talent to make that happen.

While some may throw stones, as you said the internet and this forum can be a powerful thing.. I think that your presence here provides more education about your initiatives to improve the world, and staying around to help people understand would not only be worthwhile, but would also help create positive momentum and visibility into your mandate and goals. It is also good for people to understand that in all of this you were financially in a position where, the need to do "good", was never influenced by economic goals....you had already made your fortune in another market and were using this sport as a tool to have a positive impact on the world.

Dev
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