Login required to started new threads

Login required to post replies

Prev Next
Re: Brett Sutton Article [Rappstar] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
I am generally good about considering the world being shades of grey and I don't need to like or hate all aspects of a given person, and should be able to step back and accept a person's positive attributes while not supporting his negative ones.

On the coaching front though, I have difficulty separating Sutton's technical capabilities specific to triathlon from his moral/role model responsibilities as a coach in stewarding athletes, specific young impressionable ones over which he has great influence, who may not be able to exercise full adult judgement themselves. For a coach, both go hand in hard. Obviously many are able to make that separation, but perhaps for me, since my largest coaching role is with young impressionable athletes, I just can't get past it. Yesterday, I was on skis with 9 teenage girls of the exact age bracket that Sutton preyed on. Just the thought of him being on the field with us at the same time was really hard to deal with.

He may have moved on and reformed as a person, but like a doctor or a teacher, or a psychologist with a professional designation, if you use your position to transgress the confidence of those whose care you are been entrusted with, then you are removed from the profession. In my view, coaches need to be held to the same standard. No second chances.
Quote Reply
Re: Brett Sutton Article [Rappstar] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
"Just like it's impossible to say that Lance did not commit atrocious acts of intimidation, fraud, malice, etc. . ." (Rappstar)

Do you believe LA's teammates were afraid of being incinerated by him (Tygart)?

Lance is super human, but not that super human?

Some of this Lance rhetoric is an exaggeration. Overall, if Jordan can forgive Mr. Sutton, he can soften his position on Lance. Maybe not today, but some day!


Last edited by: TriBeer: Jan 11, 13 14:17
Quote Reply
Re: Brett Sutton Article [TriBeer] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
TriBeer wrote:
"Just like it's impossible to say that Lance did not commit atrocious acts of intimidation, fraud, malice, etc. . ." (Rappstar)

Do you believe LA's teammates were afraid of being incinerated by him (Tygart)?

Lance is super human, but really?

Some of this rhetoric is an exaggeration.


Please don't try to hijack what is a fairly serious thread topic with more of your inane LA comments. We all know you support him. I fall on that side as well. Take it somewhere else though.

__________________________________________________
Follow my blog - Follow me on Twitter - Facebook Page
Powered by Accelerate3

Quote Reply
Re: Brett Sutton Article [TravisT] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
So you think the fact that he committed statutory rape means that he shouldn't be allowed to offer comments on the athletic development of children? I fail to see how those two things are related.

"I think that it's crazy that we have our young kids doing core exercises and running in 'stability' shoes."

"Your opinion doesn't matter because you raped a child."

Is that, in summary, what you are saying? That doesn't make any sense to me.

And you think less of me because I choose to forgive him for the crime which he committed? That makes more sense to me, because I understand that it's important that we share a basic understanding of morality and consequence. But I'm not saying what Sutton did is okay; I'm just saying I don't believe it defines him as a person.

"Non est ad astra mollis e terris via." - Seneca | rappstar.com | FB - Rappstar Racing | IG - @jordanrapp
Quote Reply
Re: Brett Sutton Article [Rappstar] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Rappstar wrote:
So you think the fact that he committed statutory rape means that he shouldn't be allowed to offer comments on the athletic development of children? I fail to see how those two things are related.

"I think that it's crazy that we have our young kids doing core exercises and running in 'stability' shoes."

"Your opinion doesn't matter because you raped a child."

Is that, in summary, what you are saying? That doesn't make any sense to me.

And you think less of me because I choose to forgive him for the crime which he committed? That makes more sense to me, because I understand that it's important that we share a basic understanding of morality and consequence. But I'm not saying what Sutton did is okay; I'm just saying I don't believe it defines him as a person.

Read what Dev wrote. As usual he well thought out. Sutton lost his ability to ever have any place in the coaching world, especially related to kids, despite what you may think he brings to the table. You are free to disagree of course and support him as you continue to do. I think it's sad and reflects poorly on you. Simply my opinion though and one you've stated you're not worried about so there really isn't any value to debating it with you.

__________________________________________________
Follow my blog - Follow me on Twitter - Facebook Page
Powered by Accelerate3

Quote Reply
Re: Brett Sutton Article [TravisT] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
I think this is a fair philosophy, but you seem to not share the same line of thinking when it comes to an athlete having a place in the athletic world after years of organized cheating.

Do you feel there is a significant distinction there, or do we as humans just tend to more easily forgive the people that we find inspiring or amazing?

TravisT wrote:
Sutton lost his ability to ever have any place in the coaching world



Kat Hunter reports on the San Dimas Stage Race from inside the GC winning team
Aeroweenie.com -Compendium of Aero Data and Knowledge
Freelance sports & outdoors writer Kathryn Hunter
Quote Reply
Re: Brett Sutton Article [Rappstar] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
We agree that a heinous action does not make a person entirely evil. In fact, I'd argue that the vast majority of criminals also have a lot of good qualities.

That said, "reform" doesn't mean doing good things in parts of life unrelated to the crime. It means reforming the characteristics that led to the crime. Sutton is still the manipulative, authoritarian coach searching for personal glory that he was at 27; they're the same qualities that led him to his crime, and the same qualities that make him say "FU" to the rest of the world.

Reform would be him recognizing that he abused his position as a coach so much that he should switch careers and start over. Reform would be dropping the manipulation and self-aggrandizement. Reform would be volunteering at USAT coaching certification programs and talking honestly about why he committed his crime, and the danger signals that other coaches should be aware of.

I see nothing of the wisdom you think he brings to triathlon. I see a lot of knowledge about training and racing. But wisdom is the ability to synthesize that knowledge into bigger life principles that transcend triathlon and sport. Sutton, through his actions and words, continually demonstrates that he is incapable of guiding himself--let alone his athletes--to be better human beings.

If he is in fact a father and mentor who cares a lot about people, why would it "totally destroy" him to do that in a medium outside of coaching? Lance can do good work through Livestrong, but shouldn't be involved in cycling/triathlon. Pete Rose can do lots of good for the world, as long as it's outside baseball. Why let Sutton off the hook? Why let him continue in the sport that he so violated? Why not insist that he move on?

Jordan, I appreciate that you don't want to stand in judgment of people's intentions, or speculate on the good or bad about people. But this is a man who acknowledged committing a terrible crime, so we're talking about facts, not speculation. It is, in fact, our job to stand in judgment of our peers/colleagues/friends who commit certain actions. To say, "Sure, but he's a good father and knows a lot about triathlon," is to abdicate the responsibility to punish those who we otherwise like. To ban him from triathlon and coaching is not the same as saying he is an entirely evil person.
Quote Reply
Re: Brett Sutton Article [TravisT] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
I read what Dev wrote, and I agree it's well thought out. I agree with some. Disagree with other parts. But I don't think any less of Dev as a person because of what we disagree on.

That's what I find confusing about your stance. I don't have a problem disagreeing with you. That is what I am not worried about. And while I certainly respect your write to think less of me, it does make me sad.

In other words, I don't care that you and I have different opinions. But I do care that my opinion makes you think less of me as a person. Now, I'm not going to change my opinion simply to make you like me, but I think it's unfortunate that we can't agree to disagree and also maintain a respect for each other.

I think the Lance "debate" (which is less of debate than people shouting at each other) really has highlighted this here on this forum, but it's most pervasive in modern politics. And it troubles me. As someone who supports Lance, I thought you might have taken a less "with me or against me" attitude. I don't think less of you because you choose to have a different opinion of Lance than I do. FWIW, which maybe isn't very much...

"Non est ad astra mollis e terris via." - Seneca | rappstar.com | FB - Rappstar Racing | IG - @jordanrapp
Quote Reply
Re: Brett Sutton Article [jackmott] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
jackmott wrote:
I think this is a fair philosophy, but you seem to not share the same line of thinking when it comes to an athlete having a place in the athletic world after years of organized cheating.

Do you feel there is a significant distinction there, or do we as humans just tend to more easily forgive the people that we find inspiring or amazing?

TravisT wrote:
Sutton lost his ability to ever have any place in the coaching world

I really don't want to devolve this thread into another LA one. See my comment to Tribeer above.

That said I simply don't care about what LA and did nothing is going to get me to. I fully appreciate people and their position who feel LA nor Sutton have a place in sport. They argue from a consistent place. If you somehow feel that LA's actions are worse then child molestation, and that is what it was despite some of the idiots who want to shade it grey on here, thenI have some serious issues with where you draw the line on right and wrong. Sure LA doped, he broke rules, probably caused some pain and suffering in the lives of others but for me that doesn't reach the level of what Sutton did. I have no issue with you disagreeing with my lack of care regarding LA but comparing the actions of both is a sliding scale and Sutton falls far lower down. If you live in a world of black and white morality, and I don't think you at least do, then it would be impossible to reconcile how I see it but most people aren't like that.

__________________________________________________
Follow my blog - Follow me on Twitter - Facebook Page
Powered by Accelerate3

Quote Reply
Re: Brett Sutton Article [TravisT] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
A lot of the non american world doesn't care much about what Brett did either. Just different levels of 'shock and awe' there across cultures.


TravisT wrote:
jackmott wrote:
I think this is a fair philosophy, but you seem to not share the same line of thinking when it comes to an athlete having a place in the athletic world after years of organized cheating.

Do you feel there is a significant distinction there, or do we as humans just tend to more easily forgive the people that we find inspiring or amazing?

TravisT wrote:
Sutton lost his ability to ever have any place in the coaching world

I really don't want to devolve this thread into another LA one. See my comment to Tribeer above.

That said I simply don't care about what LA and did nothing is going to get me to. I fully appreciate people and their position who feel LA nor Sutton have a place in sport. They argue from a consistent place. If you somehow feel that LA's actions are worse then child molestation, and that is what it was despite some of the idiots who want to shade it grey on here, thenI have some serious issues with where you draw the line on right and wrong. Sure LA doped, he broke rules, probably caused some pain and suffering in the lives of others but for me that doesn't reach the level of what Sutton did. I have no issue with you disagreeing with my lack of care regarding LA but comparing the actions of both is a sliding scale and Sutton falls far lower down. If you live in a world of black and white morality, and I don't think you at least do, then it would be impossible to reconcile how I see it but most people aren't like that.



Kat Hunter reports on the San Dimas Stage Race from inside the GC winning team
Aeroweenie.com -Compendium of Aero Data and Knowledge
Freelance sports & outdoors writer Kathryn Hunter
Quote Reply
Re: Brett Sutton Article [AlwaysCurious] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Thanks. That was a great reply. Some stuff - a lot of stuff - I agree with. Other stuff, I just can't. I will give Nicola Spirig as a brief example. Brett wrote about her after the Olympics that they talked about what she should do now. Brett said that she and Reto Hug (her partner) should start a family; that she'd achieved everything there was to achieve in sport, and that what was important now was to pass on the gifts she had as an athlete and as a person. I read that post and saw it as genuine. Maybe you didn't read it. Maybe you did but drew a different conclusion. In any case, I disagree that there are no examples of him guiding his athletes to be better people.

He did the same with Chrissie. She struggled because she saw triathlon as "meaningless." Brett told that through triathlon, she could gain a platform that she could then use for meaningful change, which is what I think she wants to do now. Again, that doesn't seem to me to be the advice of someone who is incapable of guiding his athletes to better people.

I don't disagree that it would be appropriate to ban him from coaching minors. As far as I know, he doesn't coach minors. I don't think that he should be banned from coaching entirely - partly because I don't see how that's really enforceable - but I appreciate your reasons for why he should. And, in general, I don't disagree with any of what you wrote about needing to enforce the laws and morals of society. But I do disagree that there is no evidence of real wisdom.

"Non est ad astra mollis e terris via." - Seneca | rappstar.com | FB - Rappstar Racing | IG - @jordanrapp
Quote Reply
Re: Brett Sutton Article [Rappstar] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Rappstar wrote:
I read what Dev wrote, and I agree it's well thought out. I agree with some. Disagree with other parts. But I don't think any less of Dev as a person because of what we disagree on.

That's what I find confusing about your stance. I don't have a problem disagreeing with you. That is what I am not worried about. And while I certainly respect your write to think less of me, it does make me sad.

In other words, I don't care that you and I have different opinions. But I do care that my opinion makes you think less of me as a person. Now, I'm not going to change my opinion simply to make you like me, but I think it's unfortunate that we can't agree to disagree and also maintain a respect for each other.

I think the Lance "debate" (which is less of debate than people shouting at each other) really has highlighted this here on this forum, but it's most pervasive in modern politics. And it troubles me. As someone who supports Lance, I thought you might have taken a less "with me or against me" attitude. I don't think less of you because you choose to have a different opinion of Lance than I do. FWIW, which maybe isn't very much...

I should have worded that differently. I don't think less of you as person it just affects how I view you as a spokesman and someone I listen to and look up to in the sport of triathlon. Your opinions and actions carry far more weight then mine do in the sport and you are going to get held to a much higher standard. There are a lot of people who feel that despite Sutton's apparent contrition for his actions, which I feel are much like LA's contrition will be in that he's just saying what he needs to, he has no place in coaching. Your support of him lends credence to his place in the sport though and touting his opinions on something related to kids lends even more support to an area of the sport he should absolutely never under any circumstance have a place or even deserve an opinion in.

__________________________________________________
Follow my blog - Follow me on Twitter - Facebook Page
Powered by Accelerate3

Quote Reply
Re: Brett Sutton Article [jackmott] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
jackmott wrote:
A lot of the non american world doesn't care much about what Brett did either. Just different levels of 'shock and awe' there across cultures.


TravisT wrote:
jackmott wrote:
I think this is a fair philosophy, but you seem to not share the same line of thinking when it comes to an athlete having a place in the athletic world after years of organized cheating.

Do you feel there is a significant distinction there, or do we as humans just tend to more easily forgive the people that we find inspiring or amazing?

TravisT wrote:
Sutton lost his ability to ever have any place in the coaching world


I really don't want to devolve this thread into another LA one. See my comment to Tribeer above.

That said I simply don't care about what LA and did nothing is going to get me to. I fully appreciate people and their position who feel LA nor Sutton have a place in sport. They argue from a consistent place. If you somehow feel that LA's actions are worse then child molestation, and that is what it was despite some of the idiots who want to shade it grey on here, thenI have some serious issues with where you draw the line on right and wrong. Sure LA doped, he broke rules, probably caused some pain and suffering in the lives of others but for me that doesn't reach the level of what Sutton did. I have no issue with you disagreeing with my lack of care regarding LA but comparing the actions of both is a sliding scale and Sutton falls far lower down. If you live in a world of black and white morality, and I don't think you at least do, then it would be impossible to reconcile how I see it but most people aren't like that.

Dubai is a great place to race isn't it :-)

__________________________________________________
Follow my blog - Follow me on Twitter - Facebook Page
Powered by Accelerate3

Quote Reply
Re: Brett Sutton Article [TravisT] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Man I wonder what their take on this would be!

But yes it has been disturbing to me how little non americans care about that.


TravisT wrote:
jackmott wrote:
A lot of the non american world doesn't care much about what Brett did either. Just different levels of 'shock and awe' there across cultures.


TravisT wrote:
jackmott wrote:
I think this is a fair philosophy, but you seem to not share the same line of thinking when it comes to an athlete having a place in the athletic world after years of organized cheating.

Do you feel there is a significant distinction there, or do we as humans just tend to more easily forgive the people that we find inspiring or amazing?

TravisT wrote:
Sutton lost his ability to ever have any place in the coaching world


I really don't want to devolve this thread into another LA one. See my comment to Tribeer above.

That said I simply don't care about what LA and did nothing is going to get me to. I fully appreciate people and their position who feel LA nor Sutton have a place in sport. They argue from a consistent place. If you somehow feel that LA's actions are worse then child molestation, and that is what it was despite some of the idiots who want to shade it grey on here, thenI have some serious issues with where you draw the line on right and wrong. Sure LA doped, he broke rules, probably caused some pain and suffering in the lives of others but for me that doesn't reach the level of what Sutton did. I have no issue with you disagreeing with my lack of care regarding LA but comparing the actions of both is a sliding scale and Sutton falls far lower down. If you live in a world of black and white morality, and I don't think you at least do, then it would be impossible to reconcile how I see it but most people aren't like that.

Dubai is a great place to race isn't it :-)



Kat Hunter reports on the San Dimas Stage Race from inside the GC winning team
Aeroweenie.com -Compendium of Aero Data and Knowledge
Freelance sports & outdoors writer Kathryn Hunter
Quote Reply
Re: Brett Sutton Article [TravisT] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
TravisT wrote:
Rappstar wrote:
I read what Dev wrote, and I agree it's well thought out. I agree with some. Disagree with other parts. But I don't think any less of Dev as a person because of what we disagree on.

That's what I find confusing about your stance. I don't have a problem disagreeing with you. That is what I am not worried about. And while I certainly respect your write to think less of me, it does make me sad.

In other words, I don't care that you and I have different opinions. But I do care that my opinion makes you think less of me as a person. Now, I'm not going to change my opinion simply to make you like me, but I think it's unfortunate that we can't agree to disagree and also maintain a respect for each other.

I think the Lance "debate" (which is less of debate than people shouting at each other) really has highlighted this here on this forum, but it's most pervasive in modern politics. And it troubles me. As someone who supports Lance, I thought you might have taken a less "with me or against me" attitude. I don't think less of you because you choose to have a different opinion of Lance than I do. FWIW, which maybe isn't very much...

I should have worded that differently. I don't think less of you as person it just affects how I view you as a spokesman and someone I listen to and look up to in the sport of triathlon. Your opinions and actions carry far more weight then mine do in the sport and you are going to get held to a much higher standard. There are a lot of people who feel that despite Sutton's apparent contrition for his actions, which I feel are much like LA's contrition will be in that he's just saying what he needs to, he has no place in coaching. Your support of him lends credence to his place in the sport though and touting his opinions on something related to kids lends even more support to an area of the sport he should absolutely never under any circumstance have a place or even deserve an opinion in.

That's fair. Thanks.

"Non est ad astra mollis e terris via." - Seneca | rappstar.com | FB - Rappstar Racing | IG - @jordanrapp
Quote Reply
Re: Brett Sutton Article [-BrandonMarshTX] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
I don't have an argument to make or moral commentary but I do have a few questions about the Sutton/Team TBB approach...


One aspect about Sutton that I don't understand is why he is so openly confrontational in one aspect but seems to care a lot about his athletes and wanting to improve the sport in general. When it comes to his methods and rationale for training an athlete in a given way, he frequently comments that the rest of the world thinks he's an idiot. Aside from the moral questions (which Sutton has never tried to defend as far as I have read), what experts think Sutton is an idiot or that his methods are unsound? Even Sutton agrees that his approach is not for everyone (though he chalks that up to the athlete's psyche rather than the limitations of the Sutton method).

In regards to his approach to improving the sport (or at least making it more economically viable for pro triathletes), he appears equally confrontational. Does he feel that to improve the appeal of triathlon, a wrecking ball of a personality is needed to smash through the old ideas (e.g. that triathlon is just too boring for mass appeal)? I tend to see the merits of such an argument but the approach is rather curious. I don't really follow the guy much so I don't understand what Team TBB's long-term approach to improving the sport is. Is it the concept of coach/sponsor package to turn non-star pros into stars?
Quote Reply
Re: Brett Sutton Article [Rappstar] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
My jaw finally dropped..

Yes, as a matter of fact his opinion on coaching children does not count. He raped a child so, no, I don't want to hear his opinion. He lost that right when he touched that little girl. Hate to break it to you but he's not the only great coach in the world, as you personally know.

Some thing in life are so simple...YOU DONT TOUCH KIDS!!! Why can you not see that this should have life lasting ramifications. Triathlon is essentially a meaningless pursuit. His presence in the sport is not required for the sport to grow or life to continue.

When people are convicted of insider trading they are banned from the stock exchange. Why should this be any different and why can't you see that?
Quote Reply
Re: Brett Sutton Article [butch] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
This is what Jordan wrote about the Sutton article. I'm not attacking you Jordan. You put it out there in public. I just don't see how you can write that as a parent.

"I feel privileged to have gotten to know Brett Sutton as a friend (over email) this past year. But I had no idea until today he was a father. Great read on parenting, kids, REAL development, and the insanity of what we are doing to our children athletically/physically. A great read."

__________________________________________________
Follow my blog - Follow me on Twitter - Facebook Page
Powered by Accelerate3

Quote Reply
Re: Brett Sutton Article [Rappstar] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Rappstar wrote:
Thanks. That was a great reply. Some stuff - a lot of stuff - I agree with. Other stuff, I just can't. I will give Nicola Spirig as a brief example. Brett wrote about her after the Olympics that they talked about what she should do now. Brett said that she and Reto Hug (her partner) should start a family; that she'd achieved everything there was to achieve in sport, and that what was important now was to pass on the gifts she had as an athlete and as a person. I read that post and saw it as genuine. Maybe you didn't read it. Maybe you did but drew a different conclusion. In any case, I disagree that there are no examples of him guiding his athletes to be better people.

He did the same with Chrissie. She struggled because she saw triathlon as "meaningless." Brett told that through triathlon, she could gain a platform that she could then use for meaningful change, which is what I think she wants to do now. Again, that doesn't seem to me to be the advice of someone who is incapable of guiding his athletes to better people.

I don't disagree that it would be appropriate to ban him from coaching minors. As far as I know, he doesn't coach minors. I don't think that he should be banned from coaching entirely - partly because I don't see how that's really enforceable - but I appreciate your reasons for why he should. And, in general, I don't disagree with any of what you wrote about needing to enforce the laws and morals of society. But I do disagree that there is no evidence of real wisdom.

Those are two good examples of him advising athletes in ways that transcend sport. I'll accept that there may be more. And it does show that he can have a positive influence on people he's mentoring.

It doesn't, however, change my desire to see him stop coaching, and to see pro triathletes stop working with him.

I agree that we can use more wisdom in triathlon. But hundreds of coaches are upset that kids are doing core strengthening programs and wearing stability shoes. Let's highlight messages of wisdom from people who haven't violated basic tenets of the sport.

Anyway, thanks for the discussion.
Quote Reply
Re: Brett Sutton Article [TriBeer] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
TriBeer wrote:
"Just like it's impossible to say that Lance did not commit atrocious acts of intimidation, fraud, malice, etc. . ." (Rappstar)

Do you believe LA's teammates were afraid of being incinerated by him (Tygart)?

Lance is super human, but really?

Some of this Lance rhetoric is an exaggeration. Overall, if Jordan can forgive Mr. Sutton, he can soften is position of Lance. Maybe not today, but some day!

Difference: Lance hasn't even apologized (yet) further he hasnt done anything to show he cares to make things better. What Sutton did was horrible, but by all accounts that one relationship was his only inappropriate one. he was punished (such as it was) and has cleaned up his act. Lance has very likely doped his entire career, and even when presented with multiple chances to clean up his act, failed to do so. recidivist behavior is the real indicator of whether or not a person has changed.
Quote Reply
Re: Brett Sutton Article [pick6] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Going to say the same thing to you Ben I did to Tribeer. Can you seriously not find enough LA action elsewhere that you have to hijack every thread that might be remotely related?

__________________________________________________
Follow my blog - Follow me on Twitter - Facebook Page
Powered by Accelerate3

Quote Reply
Re: Brett Sutton Article [Rappstar] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
I don't disagree that it would be appropriate to ban him from coaching minors. As far as I know, he doesn't coach minors. I don't think that he should be banned from coaching entirely

Here's an analogy for you. I try to read what you write on here, and I follow both your tweets and your blog as I have found you to be an intelligent and interesting person whose views I enjoy reading. I know that you are pretty openly dismissive of our country's political system and financial institutions.

So people that commit political crimes, or commit some sort of financial fraud (whether at the institutional or individual level), should those people be allowed to return to their professions? Politicians, like policemen, teachers, coaches and few other professions have a tremendous amount of influence over people's lives. And financial institutions, as we all learned 5 years ago, as so interwoven into our country's poli/econ infrastructure that we can't do without them and are nearly at their mercy.

Would you trust a fraudalent banker or his institution with your parent's retirement? Should a politician convicted of using his/her position of authority for personal financial gain be allowed to hold another similar position?

And the hypotheticals above ignore the whole issue that in Sutton's situation it was a sexual crime against a minor, not a financial or political crime against an adult.

You break the trust of your profession, in my opinion you lose your ability to hold that same profession in the future.



Portside Athletics Blog
Quote Reply
Re: Brett Sutton Article [Rappstar] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Ehh I don't blame you if you are getting tired of defending yourself but here you go:

Sutton was in such desperate need to feel powerful that he manipulated a little girl into having sex with him. To the extent that forgiveness matters, it should only be given if he understands that power and control are nothing compared to love and compassion.

I don’t know him, but I have read a couple of his blogs, and honestly I see a pathetic man who has structured his entire life as a hierarchy where he sits firmly entrenched on top. So I view him the same way I view other child predators: Someone who is scheming for their next victim.

I just don't get it Jordan.
Quote Reply
Re: Brett Sutton Article [Mad Jee] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
The short answer is that I think it depends. I think all of these hypotheticals require the same sort of black-and-white thinking that I don't think like.

I will preempt this next statement with saying that I don't believe this crime is at all comparable to what Sutton did. It's NOT statutory rape...

That said, President Obama's campaign was fined $375,000 for failing to disclose donors. It is among the highest fines ever levied by the FEC.

http://articles.washingtonpost.com/...federal-campaign-fec

Now, does this mean that I think Obama should be impeached? I do not.

Now, if you are asking me if Sutton should be barred from coaching minors? Yes I do. And - as far as I know - he does not coach any minors. His article on kids' sports was based on his own children. Do I think that he should have been barred from having children? Even though I mean that as a rhetorical question, I'll actually answer it and say I don't.

So, as is so often the case, the answer to your question is, "it depends." Considering that the job of coach is often especially ethereal - it's much harder to enforce a ban on coaching than it is to enforce a ban on someone serving in a government office - how do you really ban someone from coaching. Banning someone from contact with minors? That's much easier, though again, are we to say that means someone cannot have children? But, more directly, what does it mean to be a coach? That's much less clear cut, and that's PART OF why I don't support a ban on coaching. I don't want to have to apply the "I know it when I see it" definition of law to coaching.

I don't see that somehow justice is better served by Sutton being a "laborer," as realAlbertan suggested. I appreciate that other folks do.

"Non est ad astra mollis e terris via." - Seneca | rappstar.com | FB - Rappstar Racing | IG - @jordanrapp
Quote Reply
Re: Brett Sutton Article [Rappstar] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
That Obama fine analogy is BS, for a variety of reasons. Addressing the aspect of it being the largest ever, well his campaign also raised the most money ever, and other campaigns have received similar fines when you consider the actual size of the respective campaigns and the amounts raised. I figured we could dismiss that right away and then either move it to the LR for further discussion or just drop it altogether, I am fine with either.

With regards to this line you keep repeating about it being hard to ban someone from coaching, so just because it's hard means we shouldn't do it? To swing back to a political analogy, that's like saying "Ah, there is no easy answer to stop this gun violence, so let's just do nothing".

I could be wrong, but isn't Sutton banned from coaching in Australia? I am almost certain there is a ban on him coaching somewhere, so some federation has figured it out. Going back to my original analogy, let's say an LA cop is dismissed from the force for police brutality, would you then be OK with him joining the NYPD? Even though he violated the most basic trust of his position of authority?



Portside Athletics Blog
Quote Reply

Prev Next