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Re: Blind Pro Triathlete filing suit against USAT [triguy98] [ In reply to ]
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triguy98 wrote:
I am hearing impaired. It presents a different set of challenges than visual impairment. However, there is a similarity here. No, my hearing isn't great, but without my hearing aid, my balance is off a little. If the athlete can pereive light, being thrust into the dark with blackout lenses would be an incredible challenge.

Those "arrive prepared" statements are absurd. You think they should have to train with blackout lenses? I am not sure how much that would help a ton, as they are not likely to wear them for the other 98% of their life.

With sentiments like the above posted, apparently this sport DOES need a lawsuit. People are simply ignorant of the reality faced by others.

x2.......

"Triathlon- where runners go to die and where rich people go to get excercise" - Coach Frank
DistancePreps
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Re: Blind Pro Triathlete filing suit against USAT [triguy98] [ In reply to ]
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Listen I am color blind as they come. Sometimes I can't see the buoys at all, at best they are more difficult to see. Then there was a trail run where the RD spray painted the trail with orange paint I couldn't see it and thus couldn't even follow the course.... I chalk it up to ignorance on the RD part, and yes it sucks, but I don't make a huge fuss about it. Aaron is making a huge stink, it is bad for the sport, and a bad reflection on Kswiss and the rest of his sponsors.
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Re: Blind Pro Triathlete filing suit against USAT [ssphone] [ In reply to ]
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ssphone wrote:
Listen I am color blind as they come. Sometimes I can't see the buoys at all, at best they are more difficult to see. Then there was a trail run where the RD spray painted the trail with orange paint I couldn't see it and thus couldn't even follow the course.... I chalk it up to ignorance on the RD part, and yes it sucks, but I don't make a huge fuss about it. Aaron is making a huge stink, it is bad for the sport, and a bad reflection on Kswiss and the rest of his sponsors.

I don't think he's making a huge stink and I surely don't think any less of him. He's not doing it so he can keep winning, hes already proven he can smoke not only the other people under classification but probably 99.99 percent of the people on this forum too. Its a safety concern for him and the other competitors and have no problem with him taking up action so he or others don't get injured.
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Re: Blind Pro Triathlete filing suit against USAT [richhunter] [ In reply to ]
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I've thought about this from all points of view, of course I'm not in the .001% of people in the sport that are affected. First of all, i think any sanctioning body has to look at what the international standards are. For instance, if you are qualifying folks for special olympics, what are their guidelines? IT would only make sense on the national level to link up with international standards, otherwise you just cause confusion and any qualifying standards won't make sense. I understand that a partially sighted person would not want to go full blindness, as that is a disadvantage. It seems like there is no contention about that, it is after all why there is a problem here. On the other hand, the fully blind do have that full disadvantage built in, and cannot do anything about that, unlike the partially sighted folks who can change their status.

I'm not fully up on the international standards here, but it sounds like you have to really be blind. If that is the case, then I fully understand why partially blind folks have to make the adaptation to level the playing field as far as sight goes to compete as fair as possible, under the guidlines. Sure the partially sighted person is angry, but so is the completely blind person who would have to compete in an unfair playing field. You cannot make both those people happy, so the best you can do is to try and be as fair as possible. It seems like that is what they are doing.

And I do not buy the argument that partially sighted folks somehow are now at some disadantage because they now have to race dark, that is simply not true. I'm positive that if I were to train completely blacked out for a month or two, I would adapt and be very competitive, most likely kick some serious blind ass. Would I be as good as I am now, of course not. Just like the partially sighted folks would not be as good as they would be with 20% sight, but that is not the point. If we are going to compete against "completely " blind athletes, and that is the international/national standard, then level that playing field and see who is the best athlete, not the person who barley sneaks into the category with possibly inferior skills.

I guess I'm with the group that says man up, go dark, and see if you are still so great in the category. Don't make lame excuses that don't hold water, as even a blind person can see right through them..

And what is up with the title blind pro triathlete?? Does this guy have a pro card?? I mean I know a lot of folks that get paid by their parents, local companies, sponsors, or whoever, but that does not make them pro. Just lucky AG'ers who are sponsored. Besides respecting the blind category, this athlete also needs to respect the real pros of the sport.
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Re: Blind Pro Triathlete filing suit against USAT [monty] [ In reply to ]
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monty wrote:
I've thought about this from all points of view, of course I'm not in the .001% of people in the sport that are affected. First of all, i think any sanctioning body has to look at what the international standards are. For instance, if you are qualifying folks for special olympics, what are their guidelines? IT would only make sense on the national level to link up with international standards, otherwise you just cause confusion and any qualifying standards won't make sense. I understand that a partially sighted person would not want to go full blindness, as that is a disadvantage. It seems like there is no contention about that, it is after all why there is a problem here. On the other hand, the fully blind do have that full disadvantage built in, and cannot do anything about that, unlike the partially sighted folks who can change their status.

I'm not fully up on the international standards here, but it sounds like you have to really be blind. If that is the case, then I fully understand why partially blind folks have to make the adaptation to level the playing field as far as sight goes to compete as fair as possible, under the guidlines. Sure the partially sighted person is angry, but so is the completely blind person who would have to compete in an unfair playing field. You cannot make both those people happy, so the best you can do is to try and be as fair as possible. It seems like that is what they are doing.

And I do not buy the argument that partially sighted folks somehow are now at some disadantage because they now have to race dark, that is simply not true. I'm positive that if I were to train completely blacked out for a month or two, I would adapt and be very competitive, most likely kick some serious blind ass. Would I be as good as I am now, of course not. Just like the partially sighted folks would not be as good as they would be with 20% sight, but that is not the point. If we are going to compete against "completely " blind athletes, and that is the international/national standard, then level that playing field and see who is the best athlete, not the person who barley sneaks into the category with possibly inferior skills.

I guess I'm with the group that says man up, go dark, and see if you are still so great in the category. Don't make lame excuses that don't hold water, as even a blind person can see right through them..

And what is up with the title blind pro triathlete?? Does this guy have a pro card?? I mean I know a lot of folks that get paid by their parents, local companies, sponsors, or whoever, but that does not make them pro. Just lucky AG'ers who are sponsored. Besides respecting the blind category, this athlete also needs to respect the real pros of the sport.

Wow Monty, don't know what to say here. Ignoring the fact its not the special olympics its the paraolympics, you don't think taking one of your senses away would hamper you for more than a month or two? That is pretty ignorant if you ask me. Aaron isn't just "sneaking" into the category, but I guess you would know that if you looked up anything on him nor had time to look up the rules, which takes all of a couple min google search. Nor does he have "inferior skills" but if you want to be rude keep going...

http://www.triathlon.org/...riathlon/categories/ here you go since you're obviously being lazy tonight. The changes have been instituted by ITU which say if you are in the tri6 category you must have blackout glasses http://www.triathlon.org/...paratriathlon_rules/ . Therefore USAT was just following the new rule based on ITU, but that doesn't mean its the correct ruling.

Either way your post came off as incredibly rude to anyone is racing with a disability not to mention to Aaron who is one heck of an athlete.
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Re: Blind Pro Triathlete filing suit against USAT [draketriathlon] [ In reply to ]
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Any time you file a lawsuit you are making a stink. And he might be faster than 99.99% of triathletes but it is not an apples-to-apples comparison. We can't really quantify what his loss of sight equals in terms of time but you can bet he gets quite the advantage on the bike and run, and even possibly on the swim. I guess you would have to do an indoor triathlon to have a better idea of his capabilities before you claim he is faster than 99.99%.
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Re: Blind Pro Triathlete filing suit against USAT [ssphone] [ In reply to ]
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ssphone wrote:
Any time you file a lawsuit you are making a stink. And he might be faster than 99.99% of triathletes but it is not an apples-to-apples comparison. We can't really quantify what his loss of sight equals in terms of time but you can bet he gets quite the advantage on the bike and run, and even possibly on the swim. I guess you would have to do an indoor triathlon to have a better idea of his capabilities before you claim he is faster than 99.99%.

I understand the bike, but please explain to me how having to get sighting directions on a swim is making you faster and how is him being tethered to someone on the run making him faster? I would say the extra time it takes him to get sighting instructions on the swim and the fact that he has to be teathered to someone almost makes up the difference for the added speed on a bike. Although they don't race in aero so i'm not really sure its even that big of a deal compared to what he could do on an aero tribike. That said he is still going around 2:05 is most olys so yes he is faster than 99.99 percent of triathletes even with the advantage on the bike.
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Re: Blind Pro Triathlete filing suit against USAT [AlwaysCurious] [ In reply to ]
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Here is the listing for the rules for swimming according to IPC and the specific level of visual impairment that requires the wearing of black out goggles.
Quote:
3. Sport Classes Profiles for Athletes with Visual Impairment

3.1. Sport Class 11

3.1.1 An Athlete shall compete in Sport Class 11 if the Athlete
is unable to recognize the orientation of a 100M Single
Tumbling E target (height: 145mm) at a distance of
250mm.
3.1.2 Within this class, the vision ability may range from no
light perception to a Single Tumbling E visual acuity
poorer or equal to than LogMAR = 2.60.
3.1.3 All Athletes (with the exception of those with prosthesis
in both eyes) shall be required to wear opaque goggles
for each individual and relay event for the full duration of
the event. Athletes whose facial structure will not
support goggles shall be required to cover the eyes with
an opaque covering.

check out my blog http://theswimmingtriathlete.com
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Re: Blind Pro Triathlete filing suit against USAT [draketriathlon] [ In reply to ]
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He is faster on the run because he is fresher off the bike. He might be soft-pedaling for all we know - but at the very least he spent less time on his bike. So if he would have bike a 1:05 40K and bike a 55 then that is 10 minutes less of biking. Less biking equals more energy for running. Go out and ride a tandem sometime, or find one riding and try to hang onto them - it is a big difference regardless of aero position. I have never watched him swim, but it is possible that he is given space by other athletes and isn't climbed over etc, in addition he can draft swimming right off someones chest on their bow wave. There is no sighting involved either - all he has to do is follow the guide, and with a string attached he is going to be following the guide. Regardless of how it all works in actuality, the point I was making is that it is not a simple apples to apples comparison.
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Re: Blind Pro Triathlete filing suit against USAT [draketriathlon] [ In reply to ]
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Wow Monty, don't know what to say here. Ignoring the fact its not the special olympics its the paraolympics, you don't think taking one of your senses away would hamper you for more than a month or two?

That is not what i said. I said that if you took my sense of sight away, and I trained that way for a couple months, I could race that way pretty well. Not as good as I would sighted, but the same as the guy that is completely blind. Someone said that this partially sighted person would be at some big disadvantage if he went dark, as he would lose his balance. Well, welcome to the completely blind guys world. My point is that if you train without that sense, you would adapt to it, and things like balance and such would be minimized. I have tried it many times before, in the pool and running, and in just a short period I can go pretty good. That is why I know I could do it if I went completely dark for a few months of training..

And don't nit pick me on which olympics it is, this paticular topic is relevant to all of the different categories in both those olympics. Are we talking about semantics here, or a paticular policy? And you are right, I do not know where you fried stands in this category, but apparently he is not happy with his status, so I assume he is not completely blind. Listen, I'm not saying he is not a great guy, or a great athlete, I don't know him. I take it from your posts you do, and you think he is both, great. But I think looking at the entire blind community/field, he is the one being short sighted here, and asking for special consideration for himself. I did not say he had inferior skills, but I made the point that a person with inferior skills would be better if they had partial sight vs being compleely in the dark. You cannot argue that he would lose some of his skills by going completely dark, without acknowledging the opposite. You seem to have a hard time admitting that he has an advantage over completely blind folks because of his partial sight, do you not belive that?

And lastly, give me a break, do not call me rude or insensitive. Since you have just told me that it is an international standard and USAT is just following it, it is you who are being insensitive to the totally blind. I put myself in that persons place, and thought, what would I think is fair to me and others like me. That is who I'm sensitive to, the totally blind athlete, so do not try and paint me as some blind person bigot..
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Re: Blind Pro Triathlete filing suit against USAT [Raul] [ In reply to ]
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Raul wrote:
jackmott wrote:
sounds like the blind athlete is just like most of the sighted athletes

ARRIVED UNPREPARED!


Real eff'n funny Jack. You truly are a class act.


x4000.

Jack, you do contribute quite a bit w/respect to wheels, aerodynamics, power results, aero whatever. You're a knowledgeable guy, with great experience and willingness to research things you don't know, and post what you've found. I think that's fantastic, and I've learned quite a bit from what you've shared. But....

Whether in jest / sarcastic, I find your post offensive, and lacking in your usual attention and acuity to the issues. Good thing it's slowtwitch where being offensive, sarcasm or not, is tolerated. It's discourse, and that's one way of doing it.



------------------

- I do all my own stunts
Last edited by: Rick in the D: Jun 21, 11 21:27
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Re: Blind Pro Triathlete filing suit against USAT [monty] [ In reply to ]
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I think you're still underestimating how much losing one of your senses would affect you functioning at a high level in tris, even if you have done it for a "short period". But thats impossible to debate unless that has happened to either of us but it hasn't. However Aarons condition is such that he has gradually lost his eye sight over time. You're missing the point that was made about going from legally blind but not completely blind to just blind in the aspect of balance. When you have lived your whole life blind your balance is already figured out because you have years of training with that exact condition. If you go from legally blind to completely blind by putting on glasses your balance is going to be changed no matter what its not how you normally function. The fully blind person is already used to this condition so it doesn't take any extra effort to balance compared to someone just thrown into it. Which goes into what you said about him having an advantage, which I can honestly say I have no idea. But taking away the little vision some blind athletes have and making them go completely blacked out surely gives an advantage to the fully blind athletes who have been that way for a considerable amount of time. Futhermore, from the article I don't believe Aaron is at all arguing the fairness of the rule, but on the grounds that it is dangerous for him and other blind athletes to completely lose their vision. Also from the article it is not just Aaron but a number of other legally blind athletes that have protested the change in rule. Nice try on calling me insensitive to the completely blind, but no I just happen to agree with Aaron that the rule isn't well thought out. Even though it MAY give fully blind athletes a better chance of being competitive it, I believe it is dangerous to require them to wear blackout glasses. Considering he's the one who has to wear them I'll take his word on it. That said I don't think it really matters if he wears black out glasses or not from a competitive standpoint he kills that category everytime he races.
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Re: Blind Pro Triathlete filing suit against USAT [richhunter] [ In reply to ]
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I've had a second thought on this.

In the Clydesdale division you do not make the competitors wear weights until they are all equal in weight to the heaviest competitor.

There is a cutoff and everyone above the cutoff is allowed in the division.

By the same logic,is it enough to say that everyone below a certain visibility is in the sight impaired wave regardless of how impaired they are?

My original post was not for sure one way or the other, my questions were really just questions,I'm pretty open to debate...I know it's weird to find that on the Internet huh?
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Re: Blind Pro Triathlete filing suit against USAT [ssphone] [ In reply to ]
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have you ever done escape from alcatraz? The guy kicked ass there--he was 43rd, behind the last male pro by 2 minutes. And I'm not sure I can think of a more difficult race for a blind athlete to do. The bike is hilly negating any advantage of the tandem. The run is strewn with uneven ground, sand stairs and a low tunnel you have to run through. In short it's tough for someone who can see. Frankly I think your insinuations of an advantage through disability are bullshit.
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Re: Blind Pro Triathlete filing suit against USAT [jpb] [ In reply to ]
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He is not completely blind first off. His vision is awful and I believe he has something like 10-15% vision. Vision is like sunblock going from 0 spf 4 is huge, but going to spf 100 is not as big of jump as you think. I think that is part of what he is complaining about this - going completely blind into triathlons is a lot different than 10-15% vision.

And Listen you are an STer right, weight doesn't matter, it is all about power and aerodynamics right?? If that is the case then weight does matter in the grand scheme of things - even on a hilly course. Do the pro's still use aero wheels? aero helmets? Then obviously aero trumps weight there. And lastly unless you do the math a combined (Starky 400 watts, plus Aaron 200 watts) equals 600 watts. I am not sure what the CDA is but I can assure they are going to go faster than if they were on separate bike with separate drive-trains and 30 meters apart. Now what if Aaron pushed 250 instead and that is 650. If I was Aaron trying to perform my best I wouldn't push the bike that hard. It just isn't worth it. If I was Aaron's coach and I was trying to get him from point A-B the fastest then I would utilize the aid as much as possible - simple as that. If you don't think there is advantage to that then great.

And don't call me out on bullshit when you haven't even thought this through completely. You really think that a single person can bike faster than a tandem? You are nuts. Maybe one of the aero guys can figure it out for us.
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Re: Blind Pro Triathlete filing suit against USAT [draketriathlon] [ In reply to ]
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I believe it is dangerous to require them to wear blackout glasses. //

I guess we will have to disagree about adaptations to training dark. Since I'm fully sighted, I should have a 10 time harder time than your friend adapting to full darkness, but I know it would not be that bad. I have swam in the pool eyes closed for over a 1000 yards at a time, hardly slowing down, and once did about a mile in OW with no paddler on my own, just using wind and swell to keep me on line. I was only about 50 yards off my finish line when I opened up my eyes, and didn't slow down my stroke one bit. If I had a paddler next to me, I would swim just about as fast as I do now, wouldn't lose a stroke..

Cycling is just a different sport than triathlon cycling, and requires no adaption. I have ridden on many tandems, doing so with my eyes closed has no affect. Getting a world class partner is 99% of that game. In my AG I would just put Thurlow Rogers on the front, close my eyes, and ride a 45 minute 40k, really..

Running was the hardest for me, when I run in the forest sometimes, I will close my eyes and try and run for several minutes when the trail is straight, and it is more difficult. For me this would be the only adptation. You have to soft step on the trails, on the road it would be a ton easier. But with a good guide, I know I could figure it out pretty well, and probably run80% to 85% of my sighted run. Certainly I would not lose enough time to even come close to how much I gained on a tandem bike ride..

Which brings me to your point above, what is this danger you speak of? I suppose it is inherent in all blind folks that running blind is more difficult, but once again, anyone with any amount of sight will have a huge advantage there over the completely dark folks. Since I only consider running the challenge of going dark, being able to see shapes would be a big advantage. Other than that, the guide you pick is the most important thing, someone that is a quick study of the enviorment, and can communicate it quickly and timley to you..I think you overblow the danger card here, in fact having someone escort you the entire way probably makes you safer than a lot of the sighted folks going it alone out there..

And lastly, I fully understand what Aaron is trying to do, but he needs to chang things from the top down, not from his center out. IF he has the support of "ALL" the blind athletes, and they are in agreement that the rules need to be changed, he should approach it from that angle. My guess is that he does not have that support, and there is a definate split in the community between the fully dark folks, and the partially sighted ones. Change the way the international community approaches the divisions, and my guess is that USAT would flip in an instant. They have no grudge against him, i see it as just doing what is right for most and working within the given international guidlines.. And as you said, if he is as good as you say, he should just get with the program and kick some ass on the road, and let his legs do the talking instead of his lawyer..
Last edited by: monty: Jun 21, 11 22:53
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Re: Blind Pro Triathlete filing suit against USAT [jpb] [ In reply to ]
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A cursory look would show when the same guy has records both individually and on tandem, on the same course but different days, and the tandem time wins that it just might be possible that as a tandem you will go faster....

http://www.usacycling.org/forms/records.pdf

And I can tell you this, I would have welcomed some help at the race I did where I couldn't see the course markings. Or any race where some swim course director doesn't realize they are choosing buoy colors that disappear into the background. I can assure you had I been able to swim with someone on a swim course with red buoys, ridden a tandem, and then have a guide show me the path that I couldn't see because it was spray painted in orange, that I would have a much higher placing than I had. I don't have to be blind to see that.

No doubt Aaron is a talented athlete but it is not a simple apples-to-apples, and I am sure Aaron would have some complaints if I competed with a guide just as I am sure people complain about Aaron who are actually 100% blind. Lines have to be drawn somewhere, and even in the PC divisions they have different lines for different levels of disability. I would love to hear what someone thinks about this who is actually 100% blind.
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Re: Blind Pro Triathlete filing suit against USAT [ssphone] [ In reply to ]
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You're missing the entire point about the course I'm referring to. And using silly logic to do so. Wheel weight is an entirely different question (essentially because it's <1% of total system mass) from adding another body (~80% of system mass), so it's a stupid comparison.

Of course a tandem goes faster at moriarty, no one in their right mind would dispute that. Alcatraz is different because it's hilly and the descents are technical so you don't get the energy back. And you entirely glossed over the point about the run--the footing is a big deal in that race. If you haven't done it it's probably unlike any other race you've seen as far as the run course.
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Re: Blind Pro Triathlete filing suit against USAT [jpb] [ In reply to ]
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I will say this again and that is no doubt he is a talented athlete, but the crux of my original post is that Aaron is making mountains out of mole hills. He is wasting - IMO - the money of USAT, and I believe I help fund USAT every year. I am not a litigious person and I hate lawyers. Are you in favor of his lawsuit?

But getting back to Alcatraz for a second. What is your point? My point was that is it is *possible* that his times are faster than if he had 75% vision or even 100% vision. When you drag you weight up a hill you get that back when you go downhills - you are aware of that? He has probably 1500 watts climbing those hills, are they going to climb slower than others? Sure they and the rig weigh more but there is one drive-train, and they are putting out way more power than the average single person is. And who cares if it is technical? Are you referring to it being a tandem and tough to navigate? Well I have seen tandems corner faster than triathletes. Sure Alcatraz is hard, and sure it might not suit him that well but what is your point? You are trying to find a course that it is not faster to have a guide???? All courses suit some athletes more than others, we all have to choose our races and we do have the choice.

And you bring up the run, well lets talk about the run for a second. Take the footing for instance, maybe because he has to be more careful he is able to keep a lower heart rate and thus do a better job of natural pacing.... You think that is BS, I have seen it happen numerous times. You take a speedy guy and you throw him in his first IM and he blows up because he was able to redline his body. You take a guy that has a natural governor that doesn't allow him to redline, thus he can't burn himself up, and his first IM is a success. Happens all the time.

We could debate this subject until the end of time but if you can't see a guide being a help then you are not thinking out of the box. Sure it goes both ways, and sure it is not as cut and dry as I make it but you can't just think of it as an apples-to-apples comparison either and that was my other real point.
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Re: Blind Pro Triathlete filing suit against USAT [ssphone] [ In reply to ]
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ssphone wrote:
I will say this again and that is no doubt he is a talented athlete, but the crux of my original post is that Aaron is making mountains out of mole hills. He is wasting - IMO - the money of USAT, and I believe I help fund USAT every year. I am not a litigious person and I hate lawyers. Are you in favor of his lawsuit?
I'm agnostic on the lawsuit. I don't know what he's trying to achieve, so I can't say if it's a) a worthwhile goal and b) if a lawsuit is a reasonable way to achieve it. I just think it's mean-spirited of you to get on here and belittle the guy's accomplishments. He's a badass on the course, whatever you think of his actions off it, and it's stupid to try and take that away.


But getting back to Alcatraz for a second. What is your point? My point was that is it is *possible* that his times are faster than if he had 75% vision or even 100% vision. When you drag you weight up a hill you get that back when you go downhills
uh. You didn't read what I wrote.

- you are aware of that? He has probably 1500 watts climbing those hills, are they going to climb slower than others? Sure they and the rig weigh more but there is one drive-train, and they are putting out way more power than the average single person is. And who cares if it is technical? Are you referring to it being a tandem and tough to navigate?
See above. Read my post again.

Well I have seen tandems corner faster than triathletes. Sure Alcatraz is hard, and sure it might not suit him that well but what is your point? You are trying to find a course that it is not faster to have a guide???? All courses suit some athletes more than others, we all have to choose our races and we do have the choice.

And you bring up the run, well lets talk about the run for a second. Take the footing for instance, maybe because he has to be more careful he is able to keep a lower heart rate and thus do a better job of natural pacing.... You think that is BS, I have seen it happen numerous times. You take a speedy guy and you throw him in his first IM and he blows up because he was able to redline his body. You take a guy that has a natural governor that doesn't allow him to redline, thus he can't burn himself up, and his first IM is a success. Happens all the time.
You can reach for reasons that the guy has an advantage, but the point is that he goes crazy fast without being able to see. It's true that if I (a sighted person) had a guide I'd go a little faster than I do now, but HE CAN'T SEE. It seems like you're trying to make the point that he's faster than he would be if he were sighted. This is testable. Let's go get some blackout glasses and get us a couple of guides and find out what happens. I don't think I'd do as well.

We could debate this subject until the end of time but if you can't see a guide being a help then you are not thinking out of the box. Sure it goes both ways, and sure it is not as cut and dry as I make it but you can't just think of it as an apples-to-apples comparison either and that was my other real point.
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Re: Blind Pro Triathlete filing suit against USAT [richhunter] [ In reply to ]
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Isn't Matt there to guide him?

edit: after taking 30 minutes to read the entire thread, I can see his point
Last edited by: mtbr: Jun 22, 11 3:17
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Re: Blind Pro Triathlete filing suit against USAT [jpaulson518] [ In reply to ]
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jpaulson518 wrote:
Is it fair to let someone who has an impairment but not total blindness compete against someone who is completely blind?

Yes, because in both cases there is a lifetime of learning there. People in total blindness are instantly given a distinct advantage when you further handicap a visually impaired person. A visually impaired person accustom to receiving 'light cues' can no longer use the tools they have spent their entire lifetime utilizing.
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Re: Blind Pro Triathlete filing suit against USAT [monty] [ In reply to ]
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monty wrote:
I'm positive that if I were to train completely blacked out for a month or two, I would adapt and be very competitive, most likely kick some serious blind ass. Would I be as good as I am now, of course not.

I have read some seriously stupid remarks on ST, but this one is so far off the stupid chart it doesn't even register.

It's really simple. Let the doctors decide if you meet the "blind" criteria and race under that. The level of blindness does not matter as long as you meet the criteria, period.

For all you saying run with glass, put some black out glasses on for 15 minutes. Try do do the most mundane things. Then imagine what it would be like to be like that for the rest of your life.

"When the power of love overcomes the love of power the world will know peace." Jimi Hendrix
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Re: Blind Pro Triathlete filing suit against USAT [monty] [ In reply to ]
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monty wrote:
I'm positive that if I were to train completely blacked out for a month or two, I would adapt and be very competitive, most likely kick some serious blind ass. Would I be as good as I am now, of course not. Just like the partially sighted folks would not be as good as they would be with 20% sight, but that is not the point. If we are going to compete against "completely " blind athletes, and that is the international/national standard, then level that playing field and see who is the best athlete, not the person who barley sneaks into the category with possibly inferior skills.

Put up or shut up.

Prove it.

You have no conception of what you are talking about. At 10 - 15% vision, pretty much he is just making out thinks like light, shadows, the horizon, etc. Depth recognition, something you take for granted is pretty much nil. This is not a question of you squinting or putting on sunglasses at night to try and simulate it, this is more about how the brain processes sight signals as a whole related to balance and equilibrium. Requiring a person who has partial vision to such a tiny percent and requiring them to wear blackout glasses can pretty much put them in a condition called vestibular balance disorder.

Then again, maybe you single single leg amputees have an unfair advantage over double leg amputees so should require the other leg to be removed to compete. That is a much closer example to what is happening to Aaron.

So PROVE it. Lets see you do it. I think you will find sight plays a huge in balance and equilibrium, and forcing somebody who really can't see, but really can make out object and generally either can't see more than 10 feet or 10% range of vision.
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Re: Blind Pro Triathlete filing suit against USAT [jpaulson518] [ In reply to ]
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Clydesdales? What's that? Aside from a bad analogy...sorry man...true 'clydesdales' race with their age group and don't bring their
weight in the equation...Those who are strong built realize they do a sport that is probably not best suited for their physiques, and
tough it out with the lightweights. And some of these guys really kick ass. Those who are just fat and want a special division, well
that's just total bullshit. They can lose weight...people with poor vision can't do anything about it. Overweight folks can.
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