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Re: LeMond Power Pilot [BambooKing] [ In reply to ]
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I pre-ordered my Revolution and PowerPilot the very first day I could and just got the shipment notification for my PowerPilot today. I should have it by Thursday and will report back.
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Re: LeMond Power Pilot [gigamike] [ In reply to ]
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got mine today, just did my first ride with it, device is great, DL'ed my data onto my mac and tried to upload to trainingpeaks...'error: file not understood'
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Re: LeMond Power Pilot [ollie3856] [ In reply to ]
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I got mine today too but sadly, the cadence sensor won't work and so the whole unit won't work (they're going to fix that in a future firmware rev). Heartbroken after waiting that long though. That said, the guys at LeMond Fitness were super awesome and are overnighting me a new cadence sensor.
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Re: LeMond Power Pilot [gigamike] [ In reply to ]
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it's weird, I can download the CSV and open it in excel and it shows time/speed/dist/power/HR/cad/calories every second, but trainingpeaks doesnt seem to like the file :(
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Re: LeMond Power Pilot [ollie3856] [ In reply to ]
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Ollie, do you have WKO+? Have you tried importing the .csv into WKO+ and then uploading to trainingpeaks?
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Re: LeMond Power Pilot [gigamike] [ In reply to ]
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I'm on a mac, I dont believe there is a mac version of WKO+
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Re: LeMond Power Pilot [ollie3856] [ In reply to ]
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Oh, that's right- forgot you said that. If you want, e-mail the .csv to me (michael.buckingham@53x11.org) and I'll see if I can convert it with WKO+. Since my PowerPilot isn't working, I can't generate a .csv on my own to test it out.
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Re: LeMond Power Pilot [gigamike] [ In reply to ]
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cool, sent, thanks!
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Re: LeMond Power Pilot [ollie3856] [ In reply to ]
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I did some debugging using some Windows development tools and WKO+ does not like the format (not a problem with the file type). I stripped out the very top row but it still chokes (though less seriously). This is going to be a big problem for me as soon as my PP is up and running. My guess is that the column headers have to be very specific. I'll tray and find out what they're supposed to be and let you know tomorrow.
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Re: LeMond Power Pilot [gigamike] [ In reply to ]
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crap, thanks a bunch for the help, let me know if you get it figured out. Also, have you tried another cadence sensor (will it work with say a garmin sensor?)
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Re: LeMond Power Pilot [ollie3856] [ In reply to ]
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Also, FWIW the manual is terrible, they tell you things like 'the power pilot ships with 2 preloaded training programs' and then dont tell you how to access them or what they are, and that you can 'upload training programs onto a USB then onto the power pilot' leaving out the small detail of what format they need to be in/where you need to build them first...sweet!
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Re: LeMond Power Pilot [ollie3856] [ In reply to ]
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Yeah, unfortunately, it won't work with the Garmin ANT+ cadence/speed sensor (GSC-10) because the PowerPilot is looking for a cadence signal only and doesn't know how to process the extra noise (per the LeMond Fitness Director of Engineering).
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Re: LeMond Power Pilot [gigamike] [ In reply to ]
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gigamike wrote:
I got mine today too but sadly, the cadence sensor won't work and so the whole unit won't work (they're going to fix that in a future firmware rev). Heartbroken after waiting that long though. That said, the guys at LeMond Fitness were super awesome and are overnighting me a new cadence sensor.

So you are forced to mount the cadence sensor on your bike even if you don't want cadence or else no power reading?
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Re: LeMond Power Pilot [sdmike] [ In reply to ]
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the manual states that it will record no data unless it detects both sensors
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Re: LeMond Power Pilot [ollie3856] [ In reply to ]
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ollie3856 wrote:
the manual states that it will record no data unless it detects both sensors

Yep, that's true and ridiculous. If the head unit can't detect one or more of the sensors, the unit locks up with a PAIR screen and is useless. I spoke with the head of development at LeMond though and they are going to fix that in the next firmware release. The head unit is paired with all sensors at the factory so manual pairing should never be necessary. Mine however was never paired with the cadence sensor and I spent HOURS trying to get off the PAIR screen before calling support. Their support team is excellent though, I just had some bad luck.
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Re: LeMond Power Pilot [gigamike] [ In reply to ]
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But you can not pair it with a third party CPU like Garmin 500 right? and does anybody have any clue how to download a file to Training Peaks WKO+ or website? Does not seem to understand
file and Lemond folks do not seem to understand problem when I called
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Re: LeMond Power Pilot [alvaro] [ In reply to ]
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would it be possible to install a cheap speedometer on the flywheel and estimate power from speed?

Sure... you could get quite a good estimate if you calibrate it and adjust for air density.

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Re: LeMond Power Pilot [ollie3856] [ In reply to ]
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Hi Ollie (and the rest of you,)

I'm going to try and respond to as many of the questions and comments as I can in this post, and I will follow up as I can throughout the day. I'm actually on vacation right now, and I just sent the family off to do their thing while I sit on the computer... they won't let me get away with that all day :0)

- downloading issues -

Training Peaks ( http://home.trainingpeaks.com/ ) will feature support for the Power Pilot in the next rev. of their Device Agent program. It is due out this week (they are telling me today or tomorrow.) Look for an announcement on their site, and I will post something up on this thread when it's available if someone doesn't beat me to it.

- Mac compatibility -

The Mac version of Device Agent combined with Golden Cheetah should provide all the functionalities desired by most people. Again, look for the next Rev. of Device Agent, coming very soon.

- combined speed/cadence sensor compatibility

Unfortunately, supporting this type of sensor with the Power Pilot is a significantly non-trivial effort.
The ANT+ combined speed/cadence sensors do not send out separate speed and cadence signals as provided by stand alone speed and cadence sensors, they send out a distinct speed/cadence stream, with both types of data combined. In order to use these sensors with the Power Pilot, we need to add capacity to detect and pair with an entirely different type of sensor, separate out the data needed, ignore the data not needed, maintain the dedicated "speed" stream (which we're using for the drive-wheel sensor,) Etc. Including this functionality is a much more difficult task than it appears at first glance, and there was simply no way we could include it in this version of the product.

- WTF? The unit won't work without a cadence sensor?

Having cadence data allows us to use it as a variable in wattage calculations, and do interesting things with those calculations. We aren't currently using this data this way, but requiring a cadence stream for the unit to function allows us to utilize this type of functionality in future firmware revs without the necessity of explaining the need for a cadence sensor that wasn't used earlier, and may have been lost, broken, disappeared, whatever. We may well go the other way, and remove the requirement for the sensor in the next rev of the firmware, but we felt it was better to do it this way to begin with, rather than face the prospect of future firmware revs requiring the use of hardware that people hadn't been using previously.

- The unit "locks up" if there is no cadence device present.

You will need to pair to both a cadence sensor and a Drive wheel sensor to exit the "pairing" screen/mode on the Power Pilot. It looks/feels like the unit is locking, but it just won't let you leave pair mode until you pair. This prevents you from *not* pairing, exiting the pair mode, and trying to operate a unit that is un-paired and thus will not function. As mentioned on the thread, all units are paired (or *supposed* to be paired) at the factory, and you should not need to worry about this unless you are trying to pair to, for eg, a pre-existing cadence sensor (which, again, must not be a combined speed/cadence sensor.)


Any other questions/comments?


Yup. I work for LeMond Fitness.

.

Tech writer/support on this here site. FIST school instructor and certified bike fitter. Formerly at Diamondback Bikes, LeMond Fitness, FSA, TiCycles, etc.
Coaching and bike fit - http://source-e.net/ Cyclocross blog - https://crosssports.net/ BJJ instruction - https://ballardbjj.com/
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Re: LeMond Power Pilot [drgwood] [ In reply to ]
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drgwood wrote:
But you can not pair it with a third party CPU like Garmin 500 right? and does anybody have any clue how to download a file to Training Peaks WKO+ or website? Does not seem to understand
file and Lemond folks do not seem to understand problem when I called

Right, you can't pair it with another ANT+ head unit like the Garmin Edge 500. Supposedly, TrainingPeaks is supposed to accept the .csv file the PowerPilot produces but I have not been able to get that to work (WKO+ doesn't work either though it tells you the file headers are incorrect). I've opened a support case with TrainingPeaks and will report back what I find.
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Re: LeMond Power Pilot [gigamike] [ In reply to ]
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I just got word from Training Peaks that Device Agent will support PowerPilot files for download and will hopefully be released today.
That should solve that problem at least.
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Re: LeMond Power Pilot [fredly] [ In reply to ]
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any idea why a third party CPU like the Garmin 500 can not pair with the Power Pilot? i was under the impression from the direction manual
that the Power Pilot sends out an ANT+ signal for third party CPUs to read?
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Re: LeMond Power Pilot [drgwood] [ In reply to ]
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"But you can not pair it with a third party CPU like Garmin 500 right?"


You can link the Power Pilot to many Garmin devices that support the "fitness device" capability. Ray did a nice write-up on this utility here -


http://www.dcrainmaker.com/2010/09/brief-tour-of-ant-enabled-fitnessgym.html


"does anybody have any clue how to download a file to Training Peaks WKO+ or website?"


Please see above post for answer.


"Lemond folks do not seem to understand problem when I called "


My apologies for that, my guess is there was some misunderstanding. Can you please PM me & let me know who you talked to so that I can follow up & make sure they are up to date?




.


Yup. I work for LeMond Fitness.


.

Tech writer/support on this here site. FIST school instructor and certified bike fitter. Formerly at Diamondback Bikes, LeMond Fitness, FSA, TiCycles, etc.
Coaching and bike fit - http://source-e.net/ Cyclocross blog - https://crosssports.net/ BJJ instruction - https://ballardbjj.com/
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Re: LeMond Power Pilot [fredly] [ In reply to ]
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thanks for the replies fredly...huge help having someone posting here in response to questions, and much appreciated

*update* new version of device agent with power pilot support is available and my first workout just uploaded fine

one other question. How do we go about creating workouts and uploading them to the power pilot (the manual tells you how to upload, but not how to create workouts)?

thanks again
Last edited by: ollie3856: Mar 31, 11 10:18
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Re: LeMond Power Pilot [ollie3856] [ In reply to ]
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Hi Ollie,

You're welcome (and thanks!)

Creating workouts is - honestly - something that I, personally, have barely started playing with. We're working with the folks at Peaks Coaching group to flesh out the implementation of the uploadable workout feature, and we - and they - will be offering training program content designed for the Pilot in the near future.

We will be posting "how-to's" and updated manual content on our blog to support this feature and others, stay tuned to our Facebook page - http://www.facebook.com/lemondfitness for details. We will post there as new info becomes available.

The Power Pilot is capable of being much more than *just* a power meter, and we're working to support and develop these capabilities, but we don't have support materials for everything it does - and can do in the future - available yet.

To be brutally frank, the product as released does much more than the "just a power meter" product we originally planned for, and there was no way we could produce supporting documentation for these advanced features and still get the product to market in the timeline we had promised. We made the decision to release the product with documentation for the basic featureset, and follow up with advanced feature documentation online.


.
Yup. I work for LeMond Fitness.

.

Tech writer/support on this here site. FIST school instructor and certified bike fitter. Formerly at Diamondback Bikes, LeMond Fitness, FSA, TiCycles, etc.
Coaching and bike fit - http://source-e.net/ Cyclocross blog - https://crosssports.net/ BJJ instruction - https://ballardbjj.com/
Last edited by: fredly: Mar 31, 11 11:10
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Re: LeMond Power Pilot [fredly] [ In reply to ]
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gotcha, thanks for this...so there is currently no way, or no guidelines on how to say, create a workout in trainingpeaks (or elsewhere) and upload them to the power pilot right? (Feel free to PM me if easier)
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