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Re: Helmet cam video ironman florida pelotons [Flanagan] [ In reply to ]
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If you guys want to see what real road racing looks like, this is the end of a 1/2/3 road race. It was neutralized due to a bad crash. This is the re-start, about 70 miles into the race. Little harder to stay with the group than at IMFL!!!

http://vimeo.com/4007029
who won that? Seemed like the guys with the Harley logos had half the field but they kept chasing their own team mates down and dragging others up to the break. The camera man was pretty strong, he closed up some painful gaps.

I read that for next year there is a rule change in USAC banning helmet cams along with music players and two way radios in lower categories. Shame, as I find these videos kind of fun to watch.
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Re: Helmet cam video ironman florida pelotons [gholmes] [ In reply to ]
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Wow, that is some plain crappy, confused and stinky riding right there.

Also, just as a factual point of reference. The center line stripes are ~10 feet long and have 30 feet between the end of one like and the start of the next. So with the 7 meter rule there should be the distance of two stripes between each bike.
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Re: Helmet cam video ironman florida pelotons [gholmes] [ In reply to ]
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That is great. The guy is green is coasting.

________________________________
Lisa Walser-Anderson, ATC,CSCS
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Re: Helmet cam video ironman florida pelotons [gholmes] [ In reply to ]
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2 words:

GREAT FLORIDIAN
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Re: Helmet cam video ironman florida pelotons [gholmes] [ In reply to ]
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All these responses and not one person mentioned that someone's seat was too high or too low. ;-)



"your horse is too high" - tigerchik
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Re: Helmet cam video ironman florida pelotons [Scot] [ In reply to ]
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wow I could ride an IM too! I'll sell the aero helmet, zipp's, P2. In fact I'll sell all the fancy aero crap I've bought over the years on eBay, just ride my comfy road bike and sit in for 4.5 hours.

FWIW, there were a lot of compression socks riding in that pack...hmmm.... any correlation between drafting and wearing compression socks? Is it marker of something, or does all that extra blood flowing to your brain make you do funny things?

Brian
“Eat and Drink, spin the legs and you’re going to effin push (today).” A Howe
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Re: Helmet cam video ironman florida pelotons [gholmes] [ In reply to ]
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Awesome video. Saturday was my first IM and I have to say I had expected there to be some drafting. I did my best to drop back whenever passed and I saw the Motomarshalls many times throughout the race. The pelotons were kind of disconcerting, but I think the vast majority of folks tried to follow the rules. When I was on 20, I looked back many times and had a nice big gap between me and the riders following me.

One thing that did annoy me though was all of the people who rode in the middle of the road. Why are folks afraid to ride in the bike lane? I had to yell "on your left" to many people when passing them to get them to move over so I could pass without crossing the double yellow.

I can't wait to see more of these videos. I hope I am in some of them.

Let me know if you see me. I was #1564.
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Re: Helmet cam video ironman florida pelotons [ride2eat] [ In reply to ]
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2 words:

GREAT FLORIDIAN
Here are two more words: "Sold Out" as in IMF for next year is already full. The rat race will be won next year by a rat, once again.
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Re: Helmet cam video ironman florida pelotons [jroden] [ In reply to ]
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If you guys want to see what real road racing looks like, this is the end of a 1/2/3 road race. It was neutralized due to a bad crash. This is the re-start, about 70 miles into the race. Little harder to stay with the group than at IMFL!!!

http://vimeo.com/4007029
who won that? Seemed like the guys with the Harley logos had half the field but they kept chasing their own team mates down and dragging others up to the break. The camera man was pretty strong, he closed up some painful gaps.

I read that for next year there is a rule change in USAC banning helmet cams along with music players and two way radios in lower categories. Shame, as I find these videos kind of fun to watch.
Harley went 1,3,5,6. They have been the top ranked amateur 1/2 squad in the nation the last two years.
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Re: Helmet cam video ironman florida pelotons [jroden] [ In reply to ]
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In Reply To:
If you guys want to see what real road racing looks like, this is the end of a 1/2/3 road race. It was neutralized due to a bad crash. This is the re-start, about 70 miles into the race. Little harder to stay with the group than at IMFL!!!

http://vimeo.com/4007029
who won that? Seemed like the guys with the Harley logos had half the field but they kept chasing their own team mates down and dragging others up to the break. The camera man was pretty strong, he closed up some painful gaps.

I read that for next year there is a rule change in USAC banning helmet cams along with music players and two way radios in lower categories. Shame, as I find these videos kind of fun to watch.
The guy who took the flier at the video start stays away until about 1000 meters. Since Harley had numbers, the group made them chase the DC Velo guy down.
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Re: Helmet cam video ironman florida pelotons [ElGordo] [ In reply to ]
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In Reply To:
2 words:

GREAT FLORIDIAN
Here are two more words: "Sold Out" as in IMF for next year is already full. The rat race will be won next year by a rat, once again.

Yea I'm sure IMFL will always be sold out, but I'm going to do another IM in 2011 and it will be GF again. I wouldn't do IMFL if it were free. Completing the IM distance is a personal journey for me and the IM brand does nothing for me per se. I do want to complete a planned IM course with other competitors, but not in that chaos I just witnessed on video. I want to know I did it all....I just think deep down those that do choose to draft can't really feel as if they didn't cheat themselves when they finish.
Last edited by: ride2eat: Nov 9, 09 18:59
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Re: Helmet cam video ironman florida pelotons [gholmes] [ In reply to ]
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you are the man

derekgarcia.com
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Re: Helmet cam video ironman florida pelotons [gholmes] [ In reply to ]
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Priceless with a capital P. Never did an ironman in fact I am a duathlete but given some of the still photos I have seen of IM events (despite the disclaimers given that photo angle makes it appear that there is no drafting), I always had a jaundiced view of what went on in the bike segment. Good good job with the camera!

Doing Du's since 1987.
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Re: Helmet cam video ironman florida pelotons [gholmes] [ In reply to ]
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wow, I've never been on a group ride this easy!

Congrats, you are an Ironman.

�The greater danger for most of us is not that our aim is too high and we miss it, but that it is too low and we reach it.� -Michelangelo

MoodBoost Drink : Mood Support + Energy.
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Re: Helmet cam video ironman florida pelotons [desert dude] [ In reply to ]
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service? What service? He bitched and whined (no offense) about the drafting, he admits to doing the race every year, which in effect is giving the nod to the status quo and reinforcing the business model for that race.

You want service? Instead of facilitating the problem, become a draft marshal. Write an email to the RD, USAT, WTC complaining about what is going on @ the race. Send in the footage showing how unsafe it is. That would be service. Bitching about and posting video over how butt sore you are about the drafting isn't a service.
As they say in Louisiana, that boo-sheeet. Don't come on hard on this guy D squared. He merely is documenting what is implicitly condoned in IM racing. If IM management wants to crack down on drafting then they would hire a commensurate number of draft marshals to enforce rules. Becoming or volunteering to be a draft marshal is one thing but having IM bringing on the number of draft marshals required to really enforce the rules is the issue at hand. It is a race management issue since IM controls the race.

Doing Du's since 1987.
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Re: Helmet cam video ironman florida pelotons [Flanagan] [ In reply to ]
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Is that club from Maryland?
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Re: Helmet cam video ironman florida pelotons [tetsuoni] [ In reply to ]
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Desertdude and Tetsuoni. I don't think simply "voting with your feet" solves the problem. I think what Gholmes did actually goes further to solving the problem than "voting with your feet" cause if you choose to not go there are 10 others lined up to go (and potentially draft).

I think athletes who are clean have the right to show up at a race and expect a fair day. While at the moment this is somewhat utopian thinking, the more guys that show up at so called "draft fest races" and choose to ride clean like Konaexpress by dropping back when greeted with a peleton or Eric Roy (you guys saw his bike split in Florida...riding 4:36 out of the age group wave, you ain't drafting no one riding the front of the field with nose in the wind....), the better these races will get.

I don't know how many athletes I have let go by me on the out and back section at Ironman Lake Placid. I know things will even out once the race goes uphill. The topography takes care of the momentary congestion.

Where topography does not take care of "momentary congestion" we the athletes have to lobby the RD's hard to give us:
  • reasonable wave starts with proper wave spacings for strength of field and topography....so a flat race will require smaller waves with wider spacing
  • better enforcement with the standard motorcycle setup, but with more density. What you really need is the quiet Chinese electric scooters that are totally silent and can go at 50+ kph. The noisy motorbikes are useless.
  • more innovative enforcement....any of you guys drive on the highways in England where they have the video cam speedtraps....well we just need more cameras floating around the course like Gholmes
  • stiffer penalties, like first infraction show up at the penalty tent and sign in "plus run an extra 1 mile loop at T2". Second infraction "sign in"+ 3 mile loop at T2. If you had to run 3 extra miles of "laps of shame", especially in an Ironman, it would be "game over"

Saying "voting with your feet" is a bogus statement. If you care about the sport, you can't just expect these big races will sort themselves out on their own without guys like you actually doing something about it. Fine if you want to marshal that is a starting point, but still not good enough. We need to change the structure of how drafting is dealt with in the USAT rule book (stronger penalties) and how waves are set up and spaced.
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Re: Helmet cam video ironman florida pelotons [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
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Dev,

Is any of that actually real world and applicable by WTC? Or are we just basically talking the good talk, but nothing really will ever come of it?

I realize it'll mostly change when people simply stop showing up to race, but without that happening you think any of your solutions could ever be implemented? Or are we just dreaming out loud?

1st point: Would wave starts create more "course" time, and therofore have the race to be run later/earlier, and thus create more costs (road closures, police/med. people)?
2nd pt: I'm guessing the quiet scooters would cost more: Meaning higher costs for race, higher costs for racers?
3rd pt: More cameras=Need more money for the race organization= Higher race fees for racers?
4th pt: Actually a great penalty. It more than likely will slow the drafting down, just because people dont wnat the penalty. People dont mind the penalty now, because it's almost still postive net gain. A penalty of that magnittude would atleast slow/ or be a severe enough penalty to actually penalize people who draft.


I'm not trying to argue, just seeing what are actual possible real world solutions. If we want to implement some of these policies, it seems racers have to accept the higher race fees more than likely.

------------------
@brooksdoughtie
USAT-L2,Y&J; USAC-L2
http://www.aomultisport.com
Last edited by: bad929: Nov 9, 09 20:09
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Re: Helmet cam video ironman florida pelotons [gholmes] [ In reply to ]
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gholmes- great job man. Yes, we can all do something to avoid drafting. This means you have to try and get out of the saddle and find some open road or fall back and wait to pass legally. All this crap about congestion is just that, crap. Someone has to make a move to better the situation. It's not "What can this race do for me?" It's "what can I do for this race?"
I too have a lot to say on the race course. When these people are getting the benifit of a draft and it is congested, they take total advantage of the situation and ride it out as long as they can. This is weak. triathlonn is a young sport. Time (and unfortunatly money) will fix this problem.
How do you drafters sleep at night? How do you hold your head up?

"injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere" MLK
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Re: Helmet cam video ironman florida pelotons [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
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Amen, Dev! Very nice post and exceptional ideas. I agree, as I'd love to do IMFL again in a fair battle. It's the most reasonably priced race to do in the US, as it's off-season down there, and sunshine for us northerners is a treasure. We should not have to run from a race simply because we let the drafters win. I did the LD World's in Denmark 1 year where they did have the penalty lap concept, and it was great! The lap of shame. Another great idea with the electric bikes. Lord knows that the IM races bring in enough cash to buy a few of these to police the event....we just need to put pressure on to get it done. Get the petition started, Dev. I'm ready to sign on.
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Re: Helmet cam video ironman florida pelotons [MTF5] [ In reply to ]
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How do you drafters sleep at night? How do you hold your head up?


The same way people who cheat on their taxes or cheat wal street, the Nascar crew chief who changes a wedge adjustment, the football player that holds on every play. They just do it.

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@brooksdoughtie
USAT-L2,Y&J; USAC-L2
http://www.aomultisport.com
Last edited by: bad929: Nov 9, 09 20:15
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Re: Helmet cam video ironman florida pelotons [gholmes] [ In reply to ]
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I'm not some rookie here.. I've done 29 ironman races, done hawaii 7 times this was my 10th florida and I'm 54 years old so if thats douchy so beit I old enough I couldn't give a F....K anyway
I just got fed up with the drafting at florida these past 10 years I finally decided to whats the quote "if there aren't pics it didn't happen" well heres video and more than 20 seconds.



Dude, you are my new hero for a number of reasons. First and foremost, that many races and that many years of IM racing is damn impressive. I can only hope and dream to come close to those number some day.

Second, seems like you love doing these races. I only hope to continue to have that drive after years of racing.

Third, that video is AWESOME! Cool idea. Good on ya for having some fun with this. I don't understand the hating you are getting from a few posters, but, that is to be expected, I guess.

Anyway, too cool! Well done!

If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went. - Will Rogers

Emery's Third Coast Triathlon | Tri Wisconsin Triathlon Team | Push Endurance | GLWR
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Re: Helmet cam video ironman florida pelotons [ggeiger] [ In reply to ]
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I dont think your getting the business side of it. WTC isnt going to just do this to be "fair" and because they have enough money. That's exactly why they wont do it. Plus, as a business they arent going to simple waste profit on a product that is already selling out. If we want this to change, we have to ask WTC to raise the price of the race so that this type of stuff can be implemented. WTC is not going to foot the bill, the racers will be footing the bill. Thats just business. I hate that it is that way, but that's how it will be.

Until people just stop doing this race, will WTC take notice and attempt to change or figure out how to get racers back to the race. The next alternative is to tell WTC you will pay them $1k to race your race with officials on super quiet motobikes, camera speed sensors, etc.

------------------
@brooksdoughtie
USAT-L2,Y&J; USAC-L2
http://www.aomultisport.com
Last edited by: bad929: Nov 9, 09 20:26
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Re: Helmet cam video ironman florida pelotons [gholmes] [ In reply to ]
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Aren't you approaching an aid station in this video? People slow down randomly at aid stations and cause utter chaos. This seems like the reason people are sitting up, weaving and "apparent" blatantly drafting.

Can you get aerial footage next year? :-)

What was the still camera for?



******************************************************
Well I believe in God, and the only thing that scares me is Keyser Soze
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Re: Helmet cam video ironman florida pelotons [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
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I have relatives in FL.

FL would make a great vacation for everyone, I'd get to see family, the family could come
and have fun. I'd get a race in. It would be win (me), win (my family), win (relatives).

I did SilverMan this weekend. Sherpa thinks that Vegas sucks when you're there for a Race.
Kids stayed at home. Didn't see my relatives.

But hey, IMFL sells out, so guess my feet don't matter. But I still voted with them.

-Jot
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