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Re: Helmet cam video ironman florida pelotons [desert dude] [ In reply to ]
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"IS it really a service to re-document what is already known? "


Read the IMF race reports.

Read about the awesome race ALL people had there.

Awesome PRs left and right.

Read and hear how ALL these awesome people rode clear and didn't draft.

Then come back.

Do think that jives with the reality on the videos?

___________________________________________
Ego numquam pronuncio mendacium,
sed sum homo salvaticus
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Re: Helmet cam video ironman florida pelotons [snoots] [ In reply to ]
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That is priceless. How much money and time was spent on aerodynamics Bike, Wheels helmets, etc. only in to sit up in a pack and draft. Maybe every TT bike should come with a rule book.
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Re: Helmet cam video ironman florida pelotons [konaexpress] [ In reply to ]
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Nice graphic video gholmes. I like you am an IM vet of 23 IMs. People that are slamming you on this thread are doing it for a reason. Anyone who plays by the rules would not slam you for recording blatant cheaters. Some have said this is why they will never do IMFlorida. It doesn't have to be that way. I have done IMFlorida 3 times and have chosen not to get involved in the cheating. The last time I did the race was in 2007. I was on the bike going hard and steady but noticed no one had passed me for a while (I am not that strong of a rider so was wondering what was going on). I sat up in my bars, turned around and I kid you not there was a pack of 30-40 riders right on my ass. I just kept up on my bars, let the pack go (I wasn't going to do the work for them) and continued to ride myself. Don't let other people's cheating ruin your ride, ride with integrity.

Been there. Heading up 79 into a head wind. Looked back and there was 20 or so people hanging onto me.

NCCP certified Comp coach
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Re: Helmet cam video ironman florida pelotons [desert dude] [ In reply to ]
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but we already knew that, for at least 5+ years.

Knowing is nice, proof is golden.
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Re: Helmet cam video ironman florida pelotons [Greggor] [ In reply to ]
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I think it is a matter of blame the course, you want fast times go to Florida! You want differentiation of field and perhaps legit Kona qualifiers go to perhaps Lake Placid?

The course is very much to blame but don't let the riders of the hook. There's plenty to keep people separated at Lake Placid but as soon as you turn on to the out and back and there are no marshals you'll find plenty of drafters (cheaters).
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Re: Helmet cam video ironman florida pelotons [Ryoz] [ In reply to ]
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Great. Video Tape all you want. Just don't enter the race. Video from the back of a moto so you can deliver penalties. Don't enter a race that you know has prominent drafting and then bitch about it.
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Re: Helmet cam video ironman florida pelotons [desert dude] [ In reply to ]
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It looks like we agree. We don't patronize races with drafting. It looks like we're in the minority. All the more reason to be a draft marshal and stick it to the majority.

2015 American Zofingen Du is May 17.
R.I.P. Chris Gleason
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Re: Helmet cam video ironman florida pelotons [hgrong] [ In reply to ]
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Actually, Section 5.1 h (2) and (3) allow for interpretation, based on safety, course blockage, aid stations, turns, etc. or when a section of the bike course is overly narrow, has obstacles, construction, detours, 'or a similar reason'...

But you knew that... ;)
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Re: Helmet cam video ironman florida pelotons [Tricky Dick] [ In reply to ]
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Great. Video Tape all you want. Just don't enter the race. Video from the back of a moto so you can deliver penalties. Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah,...

The lady doth protest too much, methinks. (Hamlet Act 3, scene 2)
Last edited by: oldandslow: Nov 9, 09 16:41
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Re: Helmet cam video ironman florida pelotons [gholmes] [ In reply to ]
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They are all riding so slow. Who would want to draft off of them?
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Re: Helmet cam video ironman florida pelotons [Scot] [ In reply to ]
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Hey,

Thanks for the video! I was not planning to do IMFL. Now I know I will not ever consider it. I think the criticism being handed out is BS. If you want a problem to continue, just ignore it!

I suspect that many (no, not all) of the people who do not like your videos are the ones who might show up in them! If anything is going to be done about the drafting, it helps to show just how bad the problem is.

BTW, I've only done one IM, at Lousiville. I will be doing IM Louisville next year. No way I will ever consider IMFL or Cheatwater FL 1/2 championships.
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Re: Helmet cam video ironman florida pelotons [tetsuoni] [ In reply to ]
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It seems to me the issue is just getting worse. I do all of the TBF races, which is a rolling hill course. Have done the series for years. But this year I really noticed a change.
The drafting, from the sprint to Olympic distance had more drafting than I have ever seen. And what was worse, is the top guys were the ones drafting the worst. The RD's
are going nuts trying to figure out how to deal with it since so many folks bitched. Issue is they cannot put motorcycles on the road since it is open.

I got my butt kicked this year by one of these guys, so I know first hand how people who "cheat" can win. :o(

I have no solution, other than see these top folks draft in a little local race showed their true colors.

Dave

Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

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Last edited by: h2ofun: Nov 9, 09 16:46
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Re: Helmet cam video ironman florida pelotons [stal] [ In reply to ]
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what cameras did you use? I've wanted to get a handlebar cam to catch vehicular assaults for a long time.

Here is a link to an amazing camera that a local Cat 2 has installed in his helmet. He records 3-4 hour road races on there in HD, so it must have a ton of storage capacity. http://vimeo.com/user527841/videos

I'm pretty sure that Bryan would be willing to divulge the hardware/software setup he is using to record this stuff.
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Re: Helmet cam video ironman florida pelotons [bshanberg] [ In reply to ]
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The video is awesome. Give my bike club 10 sets of these cameras and some two way radios. Me and 9 of my buds will spread out along the course, blend in with the riders, and fix the drafting issues.

This. I'd love to see some enforcement done this way. Hell, I'd love to officiate a race this way. You wouldn't even need 10 people. Two or 3 leaving T1 10 minutes or so apart could see a whole lot of the field. Add a couple of MC's and you'd have some serious enforcement. Those on bikes would just have to hold a moderate pace, so they let plenty of people come by them. If some questionable riders come by, pick it up and hang with them long enough to evaluate, call it in, and then flash the card.

I can just see the athlete's meeting: "Drafting is a violation and will result in blah, blah, blah. If you draft, be aware the person you're drafting off of or the person you just blew by may be a race official."
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Re: Helmet cam video ironman florida pelotons [Flanagan] [ In reply to ]
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If you guys want to see what real road racing looks like, this is the end of a 1/2/3 road race. It was neutralized due to a bad crash. This is the re-start, about 70 miles into the race. Little harder to stay with the group than at IMFL!!!

http://vimeo.com/4007029
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Re: Helmet cam video ironman florida pelotons [Flanagan] [ In reply to ]
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great videos!!
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Re: Helmet cam video ironman florida pelotons [Flanagan] [ In reply to ]
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those are awesome, how do I get in touch with that guy?


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Re: Helmet cam video ironman florida pelotons [gholmes] [ In reply to ]
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I just got fed up with the drafting at florida these past 10 years I finally decided to whats the quote "if there aren't pics it didn't happen" well heres video and more than 20 seconds.
maybe a more appropriate response would be to keep your money to yourself and not support the race. It sure looks like a 'race' problem more than a 'behavior' problem.

There were certainly some blatant drafters at the front, but after that... I think I would have a difficult time moving through that field, and I spend a lot more time working my way through a pack of riders than the average triathlete...
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Re: Helmet cam video ironman florida pelotons [gholmes] [ In reply to ]
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Man, you deserve the ST'er of the year award! Thanks so much for this, as I have vowed to not go back there as a result of this. That said, more are becoming that way, with now AZ, Canada and even LP having this rampant cheating. I think you may have found a solution here....more cameras! Maybe ST can field "marshals" with these cameras to embarrass WTC to actually do more than lip service to the problem.
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Re: Helmet cam video ironman florida pelotons [tetsuoni] [ In reply to ]
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how long before he is banned from IM for this "service"?

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Re: Helmet cam video ironman florida pelotons [hgrong] [ In reply to ]
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dude they only way you couldn't find proof before now is b/c your utilities cut off your service...about 6 years ago.

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Re: Helmet cam video ironman florida pelotons [stal] [ In reply to ]
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those are awesome, how do I get in touch with that guy?

Here is his blog: http://breakawaycyclingmedia.blogspot.com/

Maybe try commenting on one of the videos on that blog. Alternatively, post to the MABRA list serve, in search of him or information about helmet cam setups. http://groups.google.com/group/mabra-uscf
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Re: Helmet cam video ironman florida pelotons [gholmes] [ In reply to ]
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Great vids...maybe WTC use your technique to capture drafting violations on all their events...would certainly be more effective than a ref on the back of a motorcycle with a clipboard...

that is, if they and we want to get real serious about this...b2
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Re: Helmet cam video ironman florida pelotons [snoots] [ In reply to ]
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Seriously, I only spotted 3 things that I would consider drafting 'violations' if I were mashalling; the rest are all people who were potentially just as frustrated by the congestion as the next guy.

When I did IMFL in 2007, there were instances where I either came up an a pack (I rode 5:34) or was overtaken. I sat up in each case, with one hand on the bar and the other on my hip, or taking a drink or eating or something; I did not INTEND to draft, therefore did not tuck in behind in aero, I pulled the parachute... but I wasn't going to slam on the brakes, either, due to the congestion on the course. I saw MC marshalls, shook my head, one even gave me a little finger salute...

It does come down to what many are saying - too many people on too little road at the same time, but the marshalls have to consider INTENT to properly enforce a clean race, IMO...

I agree. Apparently, there are more drama queens in triathlon than I thought possible.
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Re: Helmet cam video ironman florida pelotons [gholmes] [ In reply to ]
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great video of what looks like a poorly organized group ride!?!? Since drafting is obviously not stopping at this race, I like the idea of stripping the Kona slots until something changes
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