LOL. I think some folks are also forgetting why you need to rotate the hips in the first place as well.

---

Swimming Workout of the Day:

Favourite Swim Sets:

2020 National Masters Champion - M50-54 - 50m Butterfly

My reason for asking is that it seems according to this article from usa swimming that hip roll has a lot to do with your arm movement??

http://www.usaswimming.org/USASWeb/ViewMiscArticle.aspx?TabId=59&Alias=Rainbow&Lang=en&mid=437&ItemId=1810

And towards the end of this one:

http://www.usaswimming.org/USASWeb/ViewMiscArticle.aspx?TabId=59&Alias=Rainbow&Lang=en&mid=437&ItemId=1690

i should add, OF COURSE all these guys are kicking.......

They are all interralated. As your shoulder moves foreward your hips open up. think of a diagonal line from right shoulder to left hip and vice versa. Your kick assists in all of the above movements. As you kick down hard with your right leg your left hip opens up and your right shoulder moves forward.

In the end it does not matter what starts what you need to do it all!

DougStern

DougStern

What a wise man......

And, with those wise words, that makes a good time for me to shut my mouth....

Duuuuude. You do realize that we really have nothing to with this ;-)

FWIW... i dont kick... i have a counter balance "tick" kick and that's it... ask anyone that's seen me swim... my_ legs_ dont_ move_

I have no business being in this discussion. :)



46 min IM swim with no kicking... I like to save it for when I am racing the 200/400 free. :)

---

36 kona qualifiers 2006-'23 - 3 Kona Podiums - 4 OA IM AG wins - 5 IM AG wins - 18 70.3 AG wins
I ka nana no a 'ike -- by observing, one learns | Kulia i ka nu'u -- strive for excellence
Garmin Glycogen Use App | Garmin Fat Use App

Bump to bring another classic thread from the past into the present rotation...

---

"Anyone can be who they want to be IF they have the HUNGER and the DRIVE."

You can probably get away with not kicking in a wetsuit swim, but I'd imagine most weak swimmers regret missing leg day when it's not wetsuit legal..

You just replied to a post from 11 years ago!

By the way, in this thread Doug talked about a pinched nerve in his neck but now we know the real story. RIP Doug!

ha. and my input 11 years on would be the _exact_ same.

---

36 kona qualifiers 2006-'23 - 3 Kona Podiums - 4 OA IM AG wins - 5 IM AG wins - 18 70.3 AG wins
I ka nana no a 'ike -- by observing, one learns | Kulia i ka nu'u -- strive for excellence
Garmin Glycogen Use App | Garmin Fat Use App

I hope you don't mind me chiming in.
I've been coaching and teaching for 17 years now and I've become more and more strident in my use of the kick with all my swimmers and triathletes.
We can argue about propulsion but if we don't learn how to kick the rest of our stroke is compromised. The ability to maintain a consistent kick especially when breathing makes a large difference to overall speed and efficiency. It takes a little of work. Especially for men and more so for men who have run a lot.

My guess is that running makes your ankles stiff. The tricky part is improving flexibility. Stretching helps but kicking 25-30%,of your workout helps more.
Talking about stiffness, I don't think that increasing mobility affects ankle stiffness on contact with the ground but I only have anecdotes.

Good runners tend to have poor flexibility not in pointing the toes, but in lifting them.
Lean runners can have a poor body position, I was one of them, but the answer to that lies in the rest of the stroke, not the kick.
Kicking is not required to keep the body from waggling, proper use of the arms and body is.
About the only good use of legs in long distance swimming at mid level triathlons is in helping to initiate the roll.

lol how did I do that??

Uh, this definitely happens to real swimmers in all four strokes.

 

""All the points you mention are important once you can get your legs working. Otherwise it is like the tail wagging the dog. Unless you get your legs working nothing else will. ""

This is completely incorrect. We see so many successful swimmers who simply pull with pull-buoys. I didn't learn to swim by starting with the kick, - and know of NO ONE who did. We learned to swim with stroking our arms, flailing and first, then learning about good stroke mechanics and proper head and body position, - the kick flows from the stroke, afterwards, not the other way around. This is evident in EVERY great crawl swimmer, - the main propulsive force, and the CORE of the Australian Crawl DOES NOT eminate from the kick. This obvious when observing world class swimmers like Thorpe, Hackett, Popov etc....[/quote]

Actually, Popov for one had an incredibly fast kick.
And my daughter was taught to swim in local lessons first kicking against the wall, before using arms. The kick teaches body position and that comes before arms.