Login required to started new threads

Login required to post replies

Prev Next
Re: February Fish Thread [daved] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Ya, no such thing as an indoor pool around here, you really have to look hard for one, usually gym pools, ick!

I have had a nice progression since beginning a couple months ago, getting up to 7k a week average or so now. But this last workout reminded me why I have to take it slow, was completely shot the next day and felt sick. So took a day off and just ran yesterday easy and will try an easy swim today.. I just dont know what it is, but if I go into the tank at all it has an immediate effect on my health, not like in the old days when I would just suffer and then be good a couple hours later..
Quote Reply
Re: February Fish Thread [monty] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Ahh the old days...
I remember them as well.
Im at 79 days of running now and even tho mostly its been slow miles in the trails.. im smoked. I have ridden 200miles this year so far. That aint much.
But ohhh to swim outside.. OHHHH ... im so jealous

effin east coast...
I keep telling my wife to open a california office (specifically palo alto ha) but, not gonna happen.

come to bermuda!
daved
Quote Reply
Re: February Fish Thread [monty] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
monty wrote:
Ya, no such thing as an indoor pool around here, you really have to look hard for one, usually gym pools, ick!

I have had a nice progression since beginning a couple months ago, getting up to 7k a week average or so now. But this last workout reminded me why I have to take it slow, was completely shot the next day and felt sick. So took a day off and just ran yesterday easy and will try an easy swim today.. I just dont know what it is, but if I go into the tank at all it has an immediate effect on my health, not like in the old days when I would just suffer and then be good a couple hours later..

I think in the good old days when you went deep in the tank, you just relaxed and maybe had a nap, and then went out with Jurgen Zack for a 200 k bike ride at 40 kph hammering for town sign sprints. Now instead of being pummelled by Jurgen, you get pummelled by all the bugs that your kids bring home!!!!

OK Tigerchik where is the March thread. All of these guys keep talking about going to Bermuda and swimming outside. This is the closest I am getting to Bermuda:



This is my "home pool" around 5 min drive from home and it used to be 2 min drive from home. Once I have some bigger funding for my startup, I need to move "corporate HQ" back next door.....for now, I am 10 min drive away. Lane swim available 6 am to 4 pm and 7 pm to 9 pm, 4 lanes.

OK bring on the March thread so we can see some feats of strength!!!
Quote Reply
Re: February Fish Thread [gary p] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Have you done a lot of CSS work garyp? I did a test several weekends ago. After a normal warmup and some build intervals, I swam 400y in 5:05. Then, after a 45s rest, a 100y recovery swim in 1:17 followed by a 1m45s rest, I swam the 200 in 2:29. Plugging in the numbers got me to a 19.5s interval rate to put on the tempo trainer. So today, I went to the pool and proceeded to swim 10x200s with a 20s rest interval (basically one iteration of the tempo trainer). However, after four 200s, I was knackered and unable to sustain that pace on the fifth 200. A little bit disappointed in this first attempt. Do you regularly try to complete the CSS sets, 200s, 400s or longer distances? Weekly? I know that is what some swimsmooth recommends.

Your setting should be 18.75s. Is that what you would program in to swim these sets? I will probably go out next week and attempt to increase the time to maybe 20 flat to see how that works.
Quote Reply
Re: February Fish Thread [scooter23] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
scooter23 wrote:
Have you done a lot of CSS work garyp? I did a test several weekends ago. After a normal warmup and some build intervals, I swam 400y in 5:05. Then, after a 45s rest, a 100y recovery swim in 1:17 followed by a 1m45s rest, I swam the 200 in 2:29. Plugging in the numbers got me to a 19.5s interval rate to put on the tempo trainer. So today, I went to the pool and proceeded to swim 10x200s with a 20s rest interval (basically one iteration of the tempo trainer). However, after four 200s, I was knackered and unable to sustain that pace on the fifth 200. A little bit disappointed in this first attempt. Do you regularly try to complete the CSS sets, 200s, 400s or longer distances? Weekly? I know that is what some swimsmooth recommends.

Your setting should be 18.75s. Is that what you would program in to swim these sets? I will probably go out next week and attempt to increase the time to maybe 20 flat to see how that works.

This is a general observation about swimmers vs pretty well every other endurance sport. It is interesting how swimmers agonize about making splits and send off times. I am pretty sure that all of this is meaningless physiologically.

The only reason swimmers arer bound by send off times, is simply because in an organized workout this is the only way to do it. If not the group workout falls apart. It has little to do with physiological optimization. Cross country runners get plenty fit just running kind of randomly on a variety of terrain. 200m, 400m, 800m, 1600m runners (corresponding to 50m, 100m, 200m, 400m swimming) generally don't have anything called a send off time for their intervals. They may jog a recovery amount or just stand around till the heart rate drops and then they go when they feel ready vs being stuck going on the prescribed sent off. As fitness improves, rest intervals drop and active times come down too. Basically the same as swimming. But since track guys are not confined to a pool with lanes and clocks and other athletes filling every inch of real estate (also runners can control the watch on their wrist, real swimmers don't have a watch on the wrist and are bound by the pace clock), they have more flexibility.

Ask a runner or cyclist or XC skier or even a speed skater what the send of time is, and they probably will not know what you are talking about. But its the same heart, lungs, body, so as multi sporters, it is interesting to see the dynamic. When I watch XC skiers train, again intervals are totally different...often nothing to do with specific times to the seconds, but built around terrain and rough durations!
Quote Reply
Re: February Fish Thread [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
You're right about the send off times Dev. However, as a runner, we will simply jog a 200 or 400 in between our 800-1600 repeats. The recovery intervals may be slower the more repeats we do, but we still have an endpoint at where we take off and do the hard work again. Since this was my first critical swim set after the test and I'm only an n=1, I wanted some other data points or maybe just someone to say either keep working at it or...

I'm swimming on my own with no pace clock available or even a clock with a second hand.
Quote Reply
Re: February Fish Thread [scooter23] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
scooter23 wrote:
Have you done a lot of CSS work garyp? I did a test several weekends ago. After a normal warmup and some build intervals, I swam 400y in 5:05. Then, after a 45s rest, a 100y recovery swim in 1:17 followed by a 1m45s rest, I swam the 200 in 2:29. Plugging in the numbers got me to a 19.5s interval rate to put on the tempo trainer. So today, I went to the pool and proceeded to swim 10x200s with a 20s rest interval (basically one iteration of the tempo trainer). However, after four 200s, I was knackered and unable to sustain that pace on the fifth 200. A little bit disappointed in this first attempt. Do you regularly try to complete the CSS sets, 200s, 400s or longer distances? Weekly? I know that is what some swimsmooth recommends.

Your setting should be 18.75s. Is that what you would program in to swim these sets? I will probably go out next week and attempt to increase the time to maybe 20 flat to see how that works.


I've personally only used the CSS test as a fitness benchmark, never a foundation for a training plan. Until recently, most of my training was focused on races 500 yards and shorter, so most of my training was at a pace considerably faster than my tested CSS. This winter I've been very focused on mile pace training so, not surprisingly, my most recent CSS test results aligned tightly with the "goal pace" I've been training at.

Honestly, I think 10x200 on 20 seconds rest at CSS is a pretty aggressive set. I don't do 200's at my CSS/mile-goal-pace, and doubt I could do 10 consecutive on 20 seconds rest. I started the season doing 20-25 x 100, then went to 16-20 x 125, and more recently 12-16 x 150; all on ~20 seconds rest. Maybe if I backed off the target pace 1-2 seconds per hundred, I might make 10x200. Which brings up the point that the CSS test isn't exact, and that even at sustained mile pace (which CSS is supposed to estimate), 1 second/100 can still be a pretty big difference in demand.

I raced a 1650 yesterday for the second time in a month, and again came in ~ 1 second/100 slower than my goal pace/CSS Test pace. First time I just swam by perceived effort, consistently posted mostly low-mid 38's for 50 splits, and, with the always-faster opening 100 and a strong finishing 100, ended up with a 1:15.99./100 average. Yesterday, I could see my splits on the scoreboard every 50 so I was trying to hold 37.50's. I fell off somewhere around 700, and really died around the 1000 mark. I ended up finishing with a bunch of 50's in the mid-39's, and averaging 1:16.32/100 for the whole race. For me, the CSS test seems more like an indicator of 800/1000 race pace than 1500/1650/mile.

"They're made of latex, not nitroglycerin"
Quote Reply
Re: February Fish Thread [scooter23] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
scooter23 wrote:
You're right about the send off times Dev. However, as a runner, we will simply jog a 200 or 400 in between our 800-1600 repeats. The recovery intervals may be slower the more repeats we do, but we still have an endpoint at where we take off and do the hard work again. Since this was my first critical swim set after the test and I'm only an n=1, I wanted some other data points or maybe just someone to say either keep working at it or...

I'm swimming on my own with no pace clock available or even a clock with a second hand.

Yeah, that's kind of the point...as runners, we jog to the start of the next interval, but our rest interval is generally highly variable even though the distance is the same, you will see runners basically dogging it until they are rested enough to hit the next one hard. For a runner, it seems it is more important to hit the times during the interval. For a swimmer the cumulative interval+time comes into play. I am not sure physiologically which one is better. I think given the weight bearing nature of running, taking variable rest till your heart race drops is the right way, since there is injury risk when form falls apart. For swimming there is no injury risk. Having said that, doing intervals when you can't control your form probably leads to ingraining bad form when tired if the send off time is too short.

I do think that on the aggregate taking sufficient rest in the way to go. In most sports other than swimming, this is what happens. I understand why things are structured the way they are for group swimming. But I don't think it has anything to do with how this affects physiology more optimally.

When in the pool, sometimes I will go for strict send off times. Most of the time, I just swim and sometimes I am limited at lane swim depending on who is in lane. I've been in masters groups too, where one lane's send off times are too fast for me, and the next lane down, I am getting way too much rest!
Quote Reply

Prev Next