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Why Government Costs Us So Much
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Government at all levels in the US suffers from a number of dysfunctions, including the relatively high cost to deliver services, much of which is paid for by taxpayers.Here's one major reason for why this is so: public employee unions.

Even labor-friendly Paris uses fewer workers than New York City, and for a fraction of the cost. American public unions pervert the process.

"Take a look at the cost schedule for American government services, and you are likely to walk away boggled. Who are all these people working for the government? Why are they getting paid so much? And why does it seem to take so many of them to get anything done?

Look, for example, at the recent construction of the Second Avenue subway line in New York City, recently highlighted by the New York Times as “the most expensive mile of subway track on earth.” The employees singled out in that article do not work for the city, but they might as well; it is a collection of consultants, contractors and union laborers who work largely on government infrastructure projects.

In the interests of full disclosure, I should note that my father used to be the head of the trade association for the contractors who do this sort of work in New York City; my views were formed by this perspective. The current head of that association is interviewed in the Times article.

I have a slightly different perspective on why everything costs so much, which is that in New York, there is a collision of all the things that conspire to drive up costs. Other places may have eminent domain trouble, or politically influential labor unions, or somewhat challenging geography, or laws that let community groups delay work, or multiple layers of government and government review that pile up costs, or high costs of living that drive wages through the roof, or dysfunctional government bidding processes. … New York has all of these things in something close to their terminal form. It’s actually sort of a miracle that anything ever gets built there, or that it costs less than “all the money in the world, plus 50 cents.”

But as the Times notes, both the cost of labor and the amount of labor that’s used contribute a great deal to those bloated bottom lines. Why does Paris, with its feisty unions, manage to use fewer workers than New York City, and get jobs done for a fraction of the cost?

Because New York unions are politically connected, and for various reasons, the American government is particularly vulnerable to capture by these sorts of interests, especially as regional partisanship hardens."





"Politics is just show business for ugly people."
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Re: Why Government Costs Us So Much [big kahuna] [ In reply to ]
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I agree this is a huge problem. However, I've read (if I can locate the article I'll link to it) that it's not just the unions. The contract companies that hire the union labor also have sweetheart deals. In addition, NYC is a Democrat bastion and the Dems think of infrastructure projects as primarily jobs programs. Their objective is to throw as much money as possible at these projects as an alternative method of redistribution. They take from the primarily rich tax base and give to the "working class" -- what's not to love?
Last edited by: SH: Jan 19, 18 9:31
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Re: Why Government Costs Us So Much [SH] [ In reply to ]
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SH wrote:
I agree this is a huge problem. However, I've read (if I can locate the article I'll link to it) that it's not just the unions. The contract companies that hire the union labor also have sweetheart deals. In addition, NYC is a Democrat bastion and the Dems think of infrastructure projects as primarily jobs programs. Their objective is to throw as much money as possible at these projects as an alternative method of redistribution. They take from the primarily rich tax base and give to the working class -- what's not to love?

Well, that's a good way of looking at it. :-)

"Politics is just show business for ugly people."
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Re: Why Government Costs Us So Much [SH] [ In reply to ]
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SH wrote:
I agree this is a huge problem. However, I've read (if I can locate the article I'll link to it) that it's not just the unions. The contract companies that hire the union labor also have sweetheart deals. In addition, NYC is a Democrat bastion and the Dems think of infrastructure projects as primarily jobs programs. Their objective is to throw as much money as possible at these projects as an alternative method of redistribution. They take from the primarily rich tax base and give to the Rich folks that will do their bidding -- what's not to love?

Fixed that for you.
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Re: Why Government Costs Us So Much [velocomp] [ In reply to ]
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velocomp wrote:
SH wrote:
I agree this is a huge problem. However, I've read (if I can locate the article I'll link to it) that it's not just the unions. The contract companies that hire the union labor also have sweetheart deals. In addition, NYC is a Democrat bastion and the Dems think of infrastructure projects as primarily jobs programs. Their objective is to throw as much money as possible at these projects as an alternative method of redistribution. They take from the primarily rich tax base and give to the Rich folks that will do their bidding -- what's not to love?


Fixed that for you.

Hey, I said that's part of it too. But I don't think that's the narrative the Democrats put out.
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Re: Why Government Costs Us So Much [SH] [ In reply to ]
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Out of curiosity, is there any reason to believe that there is more ineptitude, corruption and disfunction in government than in the private sector?

Anecdotally, I feel that dysfunction has more to do with the “types of people” that are drawn to certain activities than whether the agency is public or private.

One might think that small private companies would be less dysfunctional than governments or large corporations.
But anecdotallly this doesn’t seem true either.
Many small companies seem to be run by a narcissistic son-in-laws at the expense of clients and other family members.

Perhaps more effort ought to be made in teaching (or modeling) ethical behavior than in arguing about faux socialist vs faux free market organizations.
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Re: Why Government Costs Us So Much [Velocibuddha] [ In reply to ]
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Velocibuddha wrote:
Out of curiosity, is there any reason to believe that there is more ineptitude, corruption and disfunction in government than in the private sector? Anecdotally, I feel that dysfunction has more to do with the “types of people” that are drawn to certain activities than whether the agency is public or private.
One might think that small private companies would be less dysfunctional than governments or large corporations. But anecdotallly this doesn’t seem true either.
Many small companies seem to be run by a narcissistic son-in-laws at the expense of clients and other family members. Perhaps more effort ought to be made in teaching (or modeling) ethical behavior than in arguing about faux socialist vs faux free market organizations.

At the risk of oversimplifying I'm going to say that question is not a matter of morality or dysfunction. It's a matter of the appropriateness of the tool for the job given. Making sure you're using a hammer to drive a nail and screwdriver to twist a screw instead of vice versa is more important from a production efficiency level than if you've been taught more ethics.

P.S. Narcissistic son-in-laws that run companies at the expense of clients go out of business.
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Re: Why Government Costs Us So Much [SH] [ In reply to ]
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P.S. Narcissistic son-in-laws that run companies at the expense of clients go out of business.[/quote]
And governments run by Narcissistic and incompetent folk just grow and grow and grow. It always makes me laugh when people in the LR and outside think the govt if more efficient and run better than private business.
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Re: Why Government Costs Us So Much [blueraider_mike] [ In reply to ]
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blueraider_mike wrote:


P.S. Narcissistic son-in-laws that run companies at the expense of clients go out of business.


And governments run by Narcissistic and incompetent folk just grow and grow and grow. It always makes me laugh when people in the LR and outside think the govt if more efficient and run better than private business.[/quote]
Here's what I know, having been in the government for 20-plus years (military, where I managed plenty of civil servants and had budgets of several million annually, plus supplemental appropriations) and in the private sector ever since I retired (and I tell my wife, who's both a Guard officer and a federal civil servant, and who agrees with me): Most government folks couldn't take the heat that comes from having to actually manage and work within civilian private sector companies.

Civilian companies have to turn a profit, for one (even supposed "non-profits"). The pressure to make sure the P&L statement lands more on the 'P' side than the 'L' is always high. Managing employees and their performance? Ten times more difficult than you see in the federal government, civil service-wise. It's more difficult to fire civil servants, of course, but that's also part of what causes government dysfunction, in my opinion. Add in that civilian companies deal with a vast array of issues -- service delivery needs, employee strikes, general labor unrest, shareholder demands, etc. -- and there's no contest.

"Politics is just show business for ugly people."
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Re: Why Government Costs Us So Much [blueraider_mike] [ In reply to ]
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blueraider_mike wrote:


P.S. Narcissistic son-in-laws that run companies at the expense of clients go out of business.

And governments run by Narcissistic and incompetent folk just grow and grow and grow. It always makes me laugh when people in the LR and outside think the govt if more efficient and run better than private business.


I think part of the problem is that people hear you say that and they think you're saying that people in the private sector are just better people than in the public sector. Of course, that's not the point at all.
Last edited by: SH: Jan 20, 18 6:39
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Re: Why Government Costs Us So Much [SH] [ In reply to ]
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SH wrote:
blueraider_mike wrote:


P.S. Narcissistic son-in-laws that run companies at the expense of clients go out of business.

And governments run by Narcissistic and incompetent folk just grow and grow and grow. It always makes me laugh when people in the LR and outside think the govt if more efficient and run better than private business.


I think part of the problem is that people hear you say that and they think you're saying that people in the private sector are just better people than in the public sector. Of course, that's not the point at all.

They're in no way, shape or form "better," that's for sure. I've managed hordes of employees as a private sector manager, general manager, director and such. In some ways, those folks were, and are, actually worse and the range of problems I deal with in handling them aren't too prevalent in the federal civil service, from what I can see.

But there's the issue of accountability for all of the factors I mentioned previously. We're much quicker to hold wayward employees accountable for issues -- mainly because we don't want the headaches and we have to guard our bottom line and "grow the company" (I love that term ;-) -- and I think that's what makes the difference. We get an employee lipping off to a customer, there's instant heat in the form of investigations, discipline, etc.

Stories are legion, however, about how unresponsive government employees at various levels can be, and nothing's done to them as far as we know.

"Politics is just show business for ugly people."
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