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Re: Govt Shutdown? [big kahuna] [ In reply to ]
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big kahuna wrote:
dave_w wrote:
I think the house will have just as much trouble herding the cats as the senate, so a tough road for pubs all around.


There's a lesson in all this for presidents down the road (and I'm no fan of how powerful the office of the president has become, especially since the New Deal era): Live by the pen and phone, die by the pen and phone.

DACA was completely a creation via the pen and phone and it was executed via an Executive Order, something the Fifth Circuit found unconstitutional (the matter is still to be considered by SCOTUS). The current president is trying to kill it via the pen and phone.

DACA, like the DREAM Act, which has been introduced several times but has yet to pass in Congress (so it isn't even actual LAW), is clearly an area reserved solely for the Congress as the lawmaking body in our federal system. Trying to claim that inaction by the Congress when it came to the DREAM Act justified taking an extra-judicial action on the part of the President -- in the form of DACA -- has never flown with the judiciary, which basically always comes back and says "If Congress had wanted a law regulating XYZ it would have created a law regulating XYZ." This is not withstanding some obscure federal district court judge in San Francisco, of course.

These EOs on the part of president also strengthen the hand of the administrative state and its administrative law judges (ALJs), and that clearly has to be halted before things get completely out of hand as unelected bureaucrats continue to gather unto themselves the power to make laws via agency "regulations" and "rules," none of which Congress has ever voted on when it comes to such de facto (and de jure) "laws."

If this sort of administrative morass doesn't worry people, there's something seriously wrong with our understanding of how things are supposed to work in this country.


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Re: Govt Shutdown? [big kahuna] [ In reply to ]
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The best way to diminish the strength of the executive office would be for the legislative branch to .... legislate. It would be best for the electorate to focus on that failure first and foremost. DACA isn't a particular tragic example of anything except decades-long dysfunction in this country by an electorate which truly doesn't want Congress to work in any way, and then complains when legislation eventually occurs by other means. We are basically at a historic nadir of actual legislation. With that as a background, DACA served a role of making the anonymous specific, and calling attention to different sets of immigrants, shining a light on amorphous and anonymous anti-immigration sentiment, whose goal is simply to block policy. This dance with DACA is sadly the only way to force legislative action (and probably won't happen anyway). In a parallel world without EO's, there would be even less incentive for Congress to pass laws. While I agree that EO's should be used less, the answer isn't to complain about them, but address the root cause which is an electorate that despises legislative compromise.
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Re: Govt Shutdown? [oldandslow] [ In reply to ]
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oldandslow wrote:
The best way to diminish the strength of the executive office would be for the legislative branch to .... legislate.

EO's should be used less, the answer isn't to complain about them, but address the root cause which is an electorate that despises legislative compromise.


The by-product of the Tom Delay grassroots push (20+ years ago) for Rs to control state legislatures so they could gerrymander districts to increase and inoculate their officeholders combined with opening of all the dark money and efforts to 'primary' anyone who would compromise on anything.

It is not a good path. Lack of compromise has led to EOs to govern. A really bad method used/abused by Obama and likely will be by Fat Ass Trump.

Lack of compromise has devolved into "I'm against anything the other party favors, even if I was supportive of it in the past" which seems to be the position of both parties for the last decade.

Hopefully the pending SC case regarding gerrymandering will result in minimizing it and districts will once again become competitive which might, just might, lead to office holders willing to compromise and find common ground.
Last edited by: Harbinger: Jan 23, 18 6:38
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Re: Govt Shutdown? [Harbinger] [ In reply to ]
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Cause gerrymandering didn't exist until Tom Delay was around...
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Re: Govt Shutdown? [blueraider_mike] [ In reply to ]
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blueraider_mike wrote:
Cause gerrymandering didn't exist until Tom Delay was around...

Sure it did, and campaign contributions existed too. But much like the dark money effect on contributions, Delay had on gerrymandering.
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Re: Govt Shutdown? [dave_w] [ In reply to ]
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dave_w wrote:
I think the house will have just as much trouble herding the cats as the senate, so a tough road for pubs all around.

Agreed. This piece lays out that while the Pubs are claiming victory, it will likely be a short-lived one. Assuming the Senate finds consensus, it will be up to the House and Trump to ratify (or not) that deal. Trump will have to rally the House GOP to do that, and that will risk upsetting his base (and Kelly and Miller in the WH).

He seems conflicted. He seems to want to save the DACAs from deportation ("It should be a bill of love"), but I'm not sure he has the conviction to risk upsetting his base. Problem is, either way it could hurt the GOP in the mid-terms, especially if there is another impasse on 8 Feb that lasts longer and for which the public places more blame on the GOP.
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