Yes, but don't forget to take into account the type of course he's running (winding dirt roads full of pot holes, mostly bad conditions, sometimes terrible) and at altitude. It works out to a lower effort than race pace but not that lower.

Anyway, I just wanted to dispell the idea that Kipchoge does any LSD of some form. He does not.

Yeah thats true. And I want to make same point as you. Modern Marathoners are far from LSD. They do jog slowly, but only to supplement their hard 25 mile longruns and stuff like that.

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10k - 30:48 / half - 1:06:40

I would think that race pace for a marathoner would be in the upper end of the so called sweet spot. Half a min slower per km (which is about 15%) would be more of a upper zone 2/lower zone 3 work out, wouldn't it?

but this would also a lot like triathlon races would happen on the bike those days... they are for many not real time trials anymore. ( espacially in kona for elites and in gerneral for agers due to large packs in races )
I think maybe paolo sousa is on the money when he said in one of the real coaching podcast that cycling seems to work very well with a polarized approach and running more with a threshold approach.

the thing is when i read this thread , there is so much misconception , people misinterpret various styles and confuse lsd with lydiard etc
i guess overall polarized training has come closer to your sweetspot training in the last few years.

and of course i guess fleck is also very right far too many look for something special and forget the basics of endurance sport .

You're absolutely correct. I believe the clinical definition of the term is such that your endocrine system has near zero response to any stimulus such that you cannot even rouse yourself from bed in the morning. I should place more demonstrative qualifiers when using that term, I usually try to.

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36 kona qualifiers 2006-'23 - 3 Kona Podiums - 4 OA IM AG wins - 5 IM AG wins - 18 70.3 AG wins
I ka nana no a 'ike -- by observing, one learns | Kulia i ka nu'u -- strive for excellence
Garmin Glycogen Use App | Garmin Fat Use App

This is a very succinct point. In rowing the start is so important and requires maximum power output so maximal power over a few seconds is as important as the sustainable power over several minutes. Nordic skiing requires bursts of maximum effort up short hills. Technique is all important in rowing and Nordic skiing but cycling requires almost no technique. Rowing and Noric skiing use the whole body, cycling only the legs in one simple movement.

Too often people assume all endurance sports are the same. My own view, and I would be interested in Dr Coggans comment, is that endurance cycling is a special case because the weight is unsupported and technique, strength and maximal power output are of far less importance than sustainable power over longer durations.

What works for runners may not work for cyclists. Certainly runners need more recovery and can't train for as many hours as cyclists due to the strains on tendons, ligaments joints and muscles from the weight of the runner having to be absorbed with every stride.

Not to mention the mistaken beliefs that 95% of 20 min power, or 60 min power = FTP.

Been following this with interest - I spent a few years running more slowly (8 min miles) versus now where I run a lot of zone 2 but that zone 2 ends up sub 6-30 Miles

I ran my long runs at this pace last year

I am 47 and ran 3-06 in my last IM whilst feeling pretty shit

More than one way to skin the cat i guess

I cannot fathom running so slow ! Not saying it does not work , clearly it does for some