Raiders and the Rooney Rule

Jan 3, 18 19:46

Post #1 of 19 (2341 views)

Lots of bandwidth wasted today criticizing the Raiders "making a mockery of the Rooney Rule," which requires that NFL franchises interview a minority candidate when filling coaching vacancies. The gist of the criticism is that they have no intention of hiring anyone but Jon Gruden, and so their parading in a minority just to satisfy the Rule is nothing but a sham.

Well, duh.

They knew they wanted Gruden back before Del Rio was handed his walking papers. What's the proper way to handle that situation, if not doing pretty much exactly what they're doing now?

It's not so much making a mockery of the Rule as it is exposing the Rule for what it is.

The devil made me do it the first time, second time I done it on my own - W

Last edited by: sphere: Jan 3, 18 19:46

Re: Raiders and the Rooney Rule [sphere] [ In reply to ]

Jan 3, 18 19:54

Post #2 of 19 (2330 views)

The rule is racist.

Civilize the mind, but make savage the body.

- Chinese proverb

Re: Raiders and the Rooney Rule [sphere] [ In reply to ]

Jan 3, 18 22:02

Post #3 of 19 (2256 views)

One of the teams fired their coach and replaced him with a white dude within 24 hours about a month ago.

Any chance they interviewed a black guy in that span?

Not buying it

How does Danny Hart sit down with balls that big?

Re: Raiders and the Rooney Rule [sphere] [ In reply to ]

Jan 4, 18 0:02

Post #4 of 19 (2240 views)

It's not so much making a mockery of the Rule as it is exposing the Rule for what it is.

Yep. Racist, stupid, unenforceable, impractical, etc etc etc.

"People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realize how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world."

Re: Raiders and the Rooney Rule [BLeP] [ In reply to ]

Jan 4, 18 2:52

Post #5 of 19 (2227 views)

BLeP wrote:

One of the teams fired their coach and replaced him with a white dude within 24 hours about a month ago.

Any chance they interviewed a black guy in that span?

Not buying it

To be fair, a manager that doesn't interview potential candidates before a known termination isn't doing their job very well. Rarely does a coach get fired a month before the end of the season and be blindsided by it.

ETA: agree racist and stupid, Yada yada yada

Last edited by: TimeIsUp: Jan 4, 18 2:54

Re: Raiders and the Rooney Rule [BLeP] [ In reply to ]

Jan 4, 18 6:01

Post #6 of 19 (2148 views)

It's somewhat similar to how federal agencies, among others, are required to post a job opening even though they know who they're going to promote--because they know what they're looking for and who is perfectly positioned to meet their needs. It's the logical and efficient way to do business.

If they were interviewing multiple candidates and didn't have a target in mind, sure, it would make sense in theory, but again, if they were trying to choose between candidate A, B, and C, then what's the point of humiliating Coach D by parading him through with no intention of considering him?

If Jon Gruden were black, they'd hire him without conducting interviews just the same, because they want Jon Gruden back as their head coach.

The devil made me do it the first time, second time I done it on my own - W

Re: Raiders and the Rooney Rule [sphere] [ In reply to ]

Jan 4, 18 6:17

Post #7 of 19 (2137 views)

I agree with you.

But the rule is the rule. I just don't get how some teams can ignore it and nothing happens while other teams follow the rule and are accused of humiliating a coach because the league told them that they have to.

How does Danny Hart sit down with balls that big?

Re: Raiders and the Rooney Rule [BLeP] [ In reply to ]

Jan 4, 18 6:24

Post #8 of 19 (2129 views)

It's the ultimate Catch-22.

So now imagine the backlash if the NFL did what it should do and eliminated it.

The devil made me do it the first time, second time I done it on my own - W

Re: Raiders and the Rooney Rule [sphere] [ In reply to ]

Jan 4, 18 6:29

Post #9 of 19 (2122 views)

sphere wrote:

It's the ultimate Catch-22.

So now imagine the backlash if the NFL did what it should do and eliminated it.

More kneeling?

Re: Raiders and the Rooney Rule [sphere] [ In reply to ]

Jan 4, 18 6:34

Post #10 of 19 (2118 views)

The Detroit Lions did the same thing when they hired Steve Mariucci. He possibly walked in the door as the best coach in Lion’s history (on paper) for his previous accomplishments. He was a “no-brainer” to hire.

I like the intent of the rule and think that it had its place (I know others will disagree and that’s fine) but perhaps the league has moved well beyond it.

Re: Raiders and the Rooney Rule [DieselPete] [ In reply to ]

Jan 4, 18 7:19

Post #11 of 19 (2086 views)

No Brainer hires sometime's don't work out. That doesn't mean it was wrong to hire them, or to look exclusively in their direction.

I'm trying to figure out how a franchise that wants a particular individual can "respect" the Rooney Rule and hire that individual--which, of course, they should be permitted to do without consequence. How big of a pageant is required for them to appear sufficiently interested in hiring someone they're not going to hire? Does that minority candidate need to be genuinely surprised or disappointed that he wasn't chosen when the announcement is made?

The devil made me do it the first time, second time I done it on my own - W

Last edited by: sphere: Jan 4, 18 7:23

Re: Raiders and the Rooney Rule [sphere] [ In reply to ]

Jan 4, 18 8:12

Post #12 of 19 (2058 views)

sphere wrote:

No Brainer hires sometime's don't work out. That doesn't mean it was wrong to hire them, or to look exclusively in their direction.

I'm trying to figure out how a franchise that wants a particular individual can "respect" the Rooney Rule and hire that individual--which, of course, they should be permitted to do without consequence. How big of a pageant is required for them to appear sufficiently interested in hiring someone they're not going to hire? Does that minority candidate need to be genuinely surprised or disappointed that he wasn't chosen when the announcement is made?

That's a good question, especially for this situation. Mark Davis has had a man crush on Gruden for years. He was pretty much ready to do anything to hire him. The kind of get down on your knees and do anything that has been in the news lately.

I'm beginning to think that we are much more fucked than I thought.

Re: Raiders and the Rooney Rule [sphere] [ In reply to ]

Jan 4, 18 11:35

Post #13 of 19 (1993 views)

Did anyone else read the article? Amazing that the writer could pen all that down, read it back and think that it made sense. He goes on and on about how Davis didn't see race or gender, he hired the person he wanted because he wanted them and they "were a true raider". Just so happens the examples he uses are POC or women.

So the Raiders hire Gruden because they want him and he is a true raider, but now it is not ok to ignore race and gender, because he is a white guy.

Wow, just wow.

Re: Raiders and the Rooney Rule [sphere] [ In reply to ]

Jan 4, 18 13:57

Post #14 of 19 (1954 views)

I think the Rooney rule began well after the first black head coaches had been hired, but when many highly qualified black coaches weren't even getting considered or were getting fired while still showing pretty good performance. I think most owners truly believe their motives are entirely race neutral now, and therefore these lack of interviews are not really a violation of the spirit of the law.

Also, sometimes finding a head coach is a very deliberative process, and sometimes organizations "fall in love" with candidates from the get go. If you are deliberative, then it's very conspicuous to not even consider a black coach. If you have fallen in love then you might as well avoid the mockery at least.

Basically, the Rooney rule may have lived beyond its practical usefulness, but definitely has not lived beyond its symbolic and political usefulness.

Re: Raiders and the Rooney Rule [SH] [ In reply to ]

Jan 4, 18 20:21

Post #15 of 19 (1896 views)

I read an interview with someone who helped create the rule. He basically said in a situation to take the interview kmowing Gruden is hired because it is a stress free practice session and there is no downside if you screw up.

Re: Raiders and the Rooney Rule [SH] [ In reply to ]

Jan 19, 18 13:52

Post #16 of 19 (1670 views)

So the NFL cleared Oakland of charges that they violated the Rooney Rule.

Absurd on it's face.

Quote:

In a statement released Friday, the Fritz Pollard Alliance said it "strongly disagreed" with the NFL's decision.

"We believe the facts overwhelmingly point in the other direction," the alliance said in a statement obtained by NFL Network's Steve Wyche. "In his enthusiasm to hire Jon Gruden, Raiders' owner Mark Davis failed to fulfill his obligation under the rule and should step forward and acknowledge he violated the rule.

"The NFL broke ground when it created the Rooney Rule, but it made the wrong call in refusing to penalize Mark Davis in this instance."

The Fritz Pollard Alliance added that it has requested a meeting with the NFL to ensure "a process like this never happens again."
Raiders general manager Reggie McKenzie interviewed two minority candidates -- Oakland tight ends coach Bobby Johnson and USC offensive coordinator Tee Martin -- before the team officially hired Gruden on Jan. 6. Prior to Gruden's hiring, the Fritz Pollard Alliance initially believed the Raiders were in compliance with the Rooney Rule.

However, during Gruden's introductory news conference, Raiders owner Mark Davis said he met with Gruden in Philadelphia on Christmas Eve, and felt "pretty confident that he was all-in" after their meeting.

"...That's the term that we were using in our discussions and everything, are you all-in? And I never wavered from all-in. And this time he didn't waver, either," Davis said.

The devil made me do it the first time, second time I done it on my own - W

Re: Raiders and the Rooney Rule [sphere] [ In reply to ]

Jan 19, 18 14:03

Post #17 of 19 (1654 views)

sphere wrote:

So the NFL cleared Oakland of charges that they violated the Rooney Rule.

Absurd on it's face.

Quote:

In a statement released Friday, the Fritz Pollard Alliance said it "strongly disagreed" with the NFL's decision.

"We believe the facts overwhelmingly point in the other direction," the alliance said in a statement obtained by NFL Network's Steve Wyche. "In his enthusiasm to hire Jon Gruden, Raiders' owner Mark Davis failed to fulfill his obligation under the rule and should step forward and acknowledge he violated the rule.

"The NFL broke ground when it created the Rooney Rule, but it made the wrong call in refusing to penalize Mark Davis in this instance."

The Fritz Pollard Alliance added that it has requested a meeting with the NFL to ensure "a process like this never happens again."
Raiders general manager Reggie McKenzie interviewed two minority candidates -- Oakland tight ends coach Bobby Johnson and USC offensive coordinator Tee Martin -- before the team officially hired Gruden on Jan. 6. Prior to Gruden's hiring, the Fritz Pollard Alliance initially believed the Raiders were in compliance with the Rooney Rule.

However, during Gruden's introductory news conference, Raiders owner Mark Davis said he met with Gruden in Philadelphia on Christmas Eve, and felt "pretty confident that he was all-in" after their meeting.

"...That's the term that we were using in our discussions and everything, are you all-in? And I never wavered from all-in. And this time he didn't waver, either," Davis said.

This is definitely a 'yes, but' kind of deal. The idea is to get more access to minorities in the coaching ranks. The African American GM also interviewed the African American Tight Ends coach, on a team that had the first hispanic coach and has had at least 3 (that's off the top of my head with Shell, Jackson, Flores) minority football coaches.

Having been the obligatory interview when someone else already has the job sewed up, I can tell you, it is worse than not getting an interview. The rule is a joke and the Raiders have been the prototype team for hiring. Hammering them would have been dumber than the story about how they followed the rule.

I'm beginning to think that we are much more fucked than I thought.

Re: Raiders and the Rooney Rule [j p o] [ In reply to ]

Jan 19, 18 14:09

Post #18 of 19 (1643 views)

For sure. Don't lead me on if you're definitely not taking me to bed.

Fritz Pollard Alliance is accusing them, basically, of violating the spirit of the rule, rather than the rule itself, with which they actually complied. "See! They knew they wanted Gruden BEFORE(!!!) interviewing the minority coach. You've made a mockery of the Rule!"

It's kind of amazing that people are actually committed to enforcing something so inherently ridiculous and unenforceable.

The devil made me do it the first time, second time I done it on my own - W

Re: Raiders and the Rooney Rule [windywave] [ In reply to ]

Jan 19, 18 15:36

Post #19 of 19 (1607 views)

windywave wrote:

I read an interview with someone who helped create the rule. He basically said in a situation to take the interview knowing Gruden is hired because it is a stress free practice session and there is no downside if you screw up.

Mike Holmgren said something similar today when asked. There's also the fact that they can hire you for a different job or come back to you down the road.

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