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Interesting Read on Why Pole Bikes Decided to Forego Carbon Fiber
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Pole is a young company that makes some pretty radical mountain bikes. They were supposed to bring carbon fiber models to market next year but have decided to forego that entirely. Their reasons are... interesting. Some of their notions might rub some people the wrong way. I still think it's an interesting read.


https://www.polebicycles.com/...g-for-carbon-frames/

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We have been producing high end mountain bikes for four years now. Within the mountain bike industry there is tremendous pressure that every bike manufactures must have their carbon fiber models instead of aluminum because the bikes would be lighter and the market seems to think that only way to be in high end is by producing carbon frames. First, carbon fiber products are not easily recyclable. there are methods but they are not very efficient. Secondly carbon frames are very labor intensive products that are made in places where human rights are not watched over. Mountain bikes are not the biggest polluters in the world of carbon fiber (airplanes are) but the carbon fiber industry itself is not good for the planet (well maybe in airplanes to save fuel). Mountain biking is the best thing I know but it should not be used to exploit and ruin our environment. We are moms and dads here at Pole Bicycles and we all agree that we would like to be able to look into our children’s eyes when they grow up and tell them that we made choices that turned people’s heads to a cleaner future for the living beings on this planet.


Edit: their bikes fold up too :)



Last edited by: GreenPlease: Sep 19, 17 13:34
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Re: Interesting Read on Why Pole Bikes Decided to Forego Carbon Fiber [GreenPlease] [ In reply to ]
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But the aluminum industry is not particular environmentally friendly either.

And are aluminum frames really generally recycled? I don't know about that...

And, given the typical lifespan of a carbon frame and the total volume of materials required, I don't know that the environmental balance there is as clear cut as it is made to seem.

Also, you can source more environmental friendly and responsible composite materials if you choose. Zipp sources both carbon and epoxies from US sources and, based on the work I know Josh Poertner did while he was there, environmental "reputation" was a big part of how Zipp chose (and chooses) its suppliers.

Trek also might be an interesting one to ask, because they are (I think) the biggest domestic carbon frame manufacturer. Parlee and some of the other niche builders would also be worth asking as well.

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Re: Interesting Read on Why Pole Bikes Decided to Forego Carbon Fiber [Rappstar] [ In reply to ]
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In others words, they mean well, but not entirely sure they thought it through, or did research to see if facts support their position.
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Re: Interesting Read on Why Pole Bikes Decided to Forego Carbon Fiber [Rappstar] [ In reply to ]
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It's energy intensive for virgin aluminum but for recycled aluminum the energy intensity is very low. IIRC, carbon fiber is ~250MJ/Kg whereas aluminum is 157MJ/Kg for primary production and only 15MJ/Kg for recycled aluminum. Now when you factor in the "lifecycle" of a part where CF basically has an infinite fatigue life and aluminum has a limited fatigue life... things obviously favor CF. However, will a CF frame ever actually "make it" that long before it's broken by some other means or otherwise relegated to a storage shed?

Edit: basically what I'm saying is that you can't just assume a consumer product will last "forever" because the material it's made out of has an unlimited fatigue life.
Last edited by: GreenPlease: Sep 19, 17 14:30
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Re: Interesting Read on Why Pole Bikes Decided to Forego Carbon Fiber [GreenPlease] [ In reply to ]
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GreenPlease wrote:
It's energy intensive for virgin aluminum but for recycled aluminum the energy intensity is very low. IIRC, carbon fiber is ~250MJ/Kg whereas aluminum is 157MJ/Kg for primary production and only 15MJ/Kg for recycled aluminum. Now when you factor in the "lifecycle" of a part where CF basically has an infinite fatigue life and aluminum has a limited fatigue life... things obviously favor CF. However, will a CF frame ever actually "make it" that long before it's broken by some other means or otherwise relegated to a storage shed?

Edit: basically what I'm saying is that you can't just assume a consumer product will last "forever" because the material it's made out of has an unlimited fatigue life.

Boy did I learn this lesson. I thought my Zipp disc wheel would last forever. Well, I heard it crack in a race. Then had a bike shop tell me the disc is no good, and they wear out. Looks fine from the outside,...

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Re: Interesting Read on Why Pole Bikes Decided to Forego Carbon Fiber [h2ofun] [ In reply to ]
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Right, I think we can all agree that when a carbon fiber rim cracks, that's the end of its life. Same for aluminum. I'd imagine the vast majority of cracked rims result from hitting something pretty friggin hard (pothole etc) so it's not a fatigue issue. I'd imagine this happens to carbon fiber rims about as often as aluminum rims within equal sample sizes. So when the rim fails the carbon fiber likely already has a higher environmental cost than aluminum and after recycling both materials the environmental cost is even more in favor of aluminum.

With frames the story is a bit different because you can repair a carbon fiber frame. Aluminum? Not so much...
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