So many want to ignore your comment about weight. The more you weigh, yep, the harder on the legs. I think this has helped me by staying at race weight all the time.


I think that is one of the main problems, most people gain weight as they age but then blame age on problems.

One thought might also be that if you gain weight, you make it harder on your body, and because it's hard you run less often. By running less often, you might increase the chance of getting injured.

Maybe the OP can start running more (i.e.. 6 days a week) but don't run as far. Then, really watch the diet to get his weight down (assuming that is an issue). That might help to reduce the fatigue on a daily basis.

So so true

Consistency, Frequency, duration

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Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

Boom Nutrition code 19F4Y3 $5 off 24 pack box | Bionic Runner | PowerCranks | Velotron | Spruzzamist

Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep

46 year old here. I thought it was time to give up running at 38 when my knees were done and I wasn't very active but then I lost 30% of my weight and voila! No more pain other than minor overuse injuries, etc. There was a time when I said that "I would never do a marathon". In the last five years I've done one marathon, two full IM's, 1 Death Ride, one 50k ultra run and one 100 mile ultra run and I feel like I'm still getting stronger. Three comments stood out:

1. Weight
2. Maybe not enough weekly mileage - particularly the weekly long run of 10+
3. Hokas - for me it's Clifton on road and Stinson on trail

To the 77 year old. You inspire me. I cheered the runners last weekend at the Napa to Sonoma half-marathon and it was lucky enough to see the 80 year old woman finish!

Mid 60's here, triathlete for 34 years, runner for almost 40 now and counting. Contrary to what a few post here as to it being inevitable, the studies just do not support that and many show that aging runners have far fewer knee issues. I actually participated in a study one year while I was racing at Kona. They did range of motion MRIs on some of us older 50 athletes. The study showed we actually were better on average than non-runners. I also have had 2 arthro knee surgeries and I stayed awake to hear what the doc said, as I was concerned after running for a number of years at that point. (surgeries were NOT caused by running, but weight lifting and mountain bike crash). As he saw things he mentioned no signs of arthritis, no unusual wear, etc. Yes, only an n=1, but I truly believe that staying at it is a key, and many studies as I said, do support that attitude. I have generally done much of my running on trails as well, and feel that is huge.
Another suggestion I might have is to monitor your training and be very conscious of the zones you are in. I have to say that I have experienced similar symptoms at times, and in looking at my training, it was generally when I was training too hard too frequently, and not having true recovery, with majority of runs bunched too close in pace/effort. Do the easy recovery runs, and I suggest using a HR monitor, so you actually ARE running as easy as you need to be. It's a hit to your ego, but you will run with more pleasure, duration and speed (when racing). It certainly sounds like your issues are overuse injuries, which result without the proper recovery.

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Gary Geiger
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I have been swimming ~100K per month now for 18 months. For the first 6 months, I was seeing fitness improvements in the water, but I believe I was laying the foundation for many small technical improvements. Little things like the orientation or pitch of your forearms, or toes all add up to a lot. It's like Sky with marginal gains. If you don't believe it, think about how much difference even small zoomer fins can make. Lots of things took me 100's of K to improve gradually and break out of 30 years of old stuff. I have been working on all 4 strokes, my kick, my dolphin kick etc and generally I am only going 5-10 seconds faster per 100/200m depending on the day. Part of my "slowness" in the pool is because my turns are so slow due to a minor leg spasm that happens on every turn, but it takes a few dolphin kicks to just go away. In any case, I recently did an 8K swim that is from one beach, across a lake, and back to the first beach. It is exactly 4K each way and my first 4K was 62 minutes (so sub 60 min IM pace) and returning was 72 minutes but it looks like I swam ~300m more on the way back as I was huggin the shoreline in case something happened given that I was solo, low on fuel and wanted a bail out option in case. I would say my real return leg was around 68 minutes, so sub 64 min IM leg on the return, so overall I would say some improvement over a few years ago, but having said that, this amount of swimming would be a waste of time for half or IM training given the marginal gains on the swim. Having said that, when I get OK to consistently bike and run again, I will likely still swim 60-80K per month and I bet in an Olympic tri, balancing more time into the swim, it would be quite beneficial, and i doubt I would be any slower overall as a lot of the swim fitness translates to the bike quite well. In a half IM or IM, you really need to bike and run more. Swim heavy program would not cut it.

Or on a track depending on the surface. I have a track near me. This track surface is nice and cushy. For long runs I don't like run 10 miles on it but I will run to it, do a couple miles on it, run a few miles away from it, come back to and do a couple more miles on it. It at least reduces the pounding a bit

Running is indeed the fastest way to lose weight if you want to compare that to any other sport like cycling. Cycling you have to ride 3 to 4 miles to equal 1 mile of running. However, cycling can get you thin but most people don't have 1.5 hours in a day to do at least a 25 mile ride. And most people eat way too much for what their bodies really need. I would possibly recommend running only 1x a week and do it on a treadmill. Then I would swim as my second option as that is probably the best all around calorie burner. If you cycle it will be tougher to maintain thiness because cycling really only works your lower body and not much upper.

At age 41 I was 157 lbs (5'11"). Now I am about 174...I have a hard time believing that an extra 17 lbs would create that many problems with running. I had no upper body strength when I weighed 157, so it's not like I am carrying around an extra 17 lbs of fat.


Whatever the extra weight is composed of is probably not as important as the fact that you are carrying 17 extra pounds. That's a lot of extra weight on your muscles and joints.


It's a double edged sword, because running for me is the most effective at keeping the weight off, so when I can't run I gain weight which makes running more difficult.


Yes, that is the problem. However, Gordo once said something that really stuck with me. He said people use exercise to justify poor eating habits. You should be able to maintain your body weight without exercise, that is the test if you are eating too much. If you don't exercise and gain weight, you are eating too much.


In my experience (age 55) it gets much harder to lose weight as you get older. Part of that is because a reduction in muscle but also because eating habits have become so entrenched that it is harder to change. I found that it was more difficult to change my eating than it was to increase my exercise.

Hey try this experiment. First warm up on a treadmill really slow like 5 mph. Then put 15 lbs of weights in a backpack and run at the same slow 5 mph. You will see how hard that 5 mph is now with the extra weight. See if you can get down to the previous weight (or close). You should be able to shave down some upper body muscle. You don't need much upper body muscle to swim fast....look at the Brownlees or Frodo. I really think the problem is too much weight (for you). Give it 10 months to pare down the weight via less food, move bike + swim and then try to crank up the running again. I bet you'll be fairly good to go.

I hear the excuse all the time. I just had a conversation today with a gal saying her sister could not lose weight since she sat at a desk all day. I said no way.
70% of weight lose is how much you eat. A lot of folks exercise and then eat more thinking they have justified it. Bottom line, just weigh yourself every night
and keep a food dairy. I have not been able to eat my cookies or ice cream for two weeks to try and stay at race weight. Been out to dinner like 4 nights in a row. I then have had to cut my lunch food in half. When I see all the posts on how to get fasters in the swim, bike or run, the first thing that should be asked is the person over weight. If they are, then really they are not that serious about getting better.

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Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

Boom Nutrition code 19F4Y3 $5 off 24 pack box | Bionic Runner | PowerCranks | Velotron | Spruzzamist

Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep

It's more than 70%.

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--Chris

66 and 55 years of running. Scoliosis has been with me throughout my life and addressed with core maintenance and strengthening. It has forced me to be more conscious of gait and to pay attention to maintaining core strength. There are no associated issues of back pain or immobility. In tri pics my posture is good coming out of the water and into transition while running barefoot. With shoes I am twisted and giving in to the curvature. I was really frustrated in my late 50's with injury and rapid loss of speed so I overhauled my gait to best duplicate what I had seen in pictures, get rid of the shoes. Wish I had known this stuff in my teens and had never stopped running like a 5 year old.

http://naturalrunningcenter.com/...les-natural-running/

Minimal shoes allowed me to transition form. I found the vibram 5 fingers invaluable in the process. The majority of my 30+ miles a week are in them. Up until last year I was using Newtons for a quarter of the distance. They supported the same gait mechanic and gave me feedback on midfoot landing. I found I was over controlling ground contact to land on the lugs and causing some hip discomfort. In the past few months I have started using merrill trail gloves for the mileage occupied by the Newtons. They have same sole as the vibrams without toes and easier to get in and out of for tri's.

Also 80/20 training format has kept me free of anything but minor injury and has allowed me to increase my base weekly mileage. I was sort of following the format prior to learning about it, but have been more attentive to the process with good success. I can slot in hammer time with good active recovery.

tfitzgerald.org/8020training/

Good luck to you

At your age, how many mpw do you build up to when preparing for an IM? Also, how many times per week?

What I tell people is put a 15 lb backpack on and try running with that. I think it doesn't take much extra weight to make a difference.

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They constantly try to escape from the darkness outside and within
Dreaming of systems so perfect that no one will need to be good T.S. Eliot

Currently only running 3-4 times/week. I think my max weekly miles has been 40 running, but that was a few years ago at my peak. The last few years has been less and I'm just building for an late season IM. I run using minutes instead of miles and have had great info from my various coaches. I tend to prefer the least amount of training possible so I'm fresh on race day.

Personally I would say 100%, but ....

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Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

Boom Nutrition code 19F4Y3 $5 off 24 pack box | Bionic Runner | PowerCranks | Velotron | Spruzzamist

Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep

I will vote for 80% plus 10% from food quality and 10% from food timing. But overall we are on the same page.

yep

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Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

Boom Nutrition code 19F4Y3 $5 off 24 pack box | Bionic Runner | PowerCranks | Velotron | Spruzzamist

Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep

You state, "I know personally when I run daily, if I do 10 miles a day, my wrists and shoulders ache, but if I run only every other day they seem fine."

I'm 57. I my feet, knees, and hips are telling me to stop running, but my wrists and shoulders seem to be doing fine. I guess I will keep running until my wrists and shoulders start complaining. :-)

Orthotics? (new orthotics if you already have them?)
Glucosamine? (that alone helped me a ton!)
Weight? I gained a bunch of weight over the past few years and that's had the most impact (pun intended) on my knee and leg health.

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TriDork

"Happiness is a myth. All you can hope for is to get laid once in a while, drunk once in a while and to eat chocolate every day"

If your main problem is mild to moderate arthritis, please keep running as it's the best exercise to keep your knees functioning. Low drop shoes will let you run for a long time (if you don't have too many calf/achilles issues. Make sue to build slowly and warm up properly before every run to avoid those issues).

If you like the trails I suggest hiking as an alternative to long runs on the weekend! Of course that won't help you with running races but a good 10-15 km very hilly hike will take you a few hours, still get you to enjoy the outside and is good exercise! The downhill might be hard on your knees if that's an issue but hiking poles and/or braces could help! I