http://www.trisports.com/...e-sram-red-etap.html

Delivering insane speed with a boost of compliance and control, the Kestrel 5000 SL SRAM Red eTap Triathlon Bike will ignite your performance. The 5000 SL starts with 800K high modulus carbon fiber and is strategically molded to possess geometry-specific tube shapes, a fortified bottom bracket, tapered top tube and aerodynamically contoured stays, seat and down tubes. The end result is an incredibly aerodynamic triathlon bike that offers unmatched torsional rigidity, efficient power transfer, confident handling and superb ride quality. A2 wind tunnel designed, an integrated fairing shrouds the front brake for a cleaner leading edge while the rear chainstay brake fairing sheds turbulent air under the bottom bracket shell.

Piloting the superbike reaches a new level with the full treatment of SRAM Red eTap and Oval Concepts controls. As elegant as it is simple to use, the 11-speed SRAM Red eTap drivetrain is completely wireless and delivers precise, reliable, effortless shifting. To enhance comfort during long events, an integrated seatpost clamp and saddle rail clamp work in unison to provide 40mm of position adjustment fore and aft. The Oval Concepts 980 carbon clincher wheels are stiff, lightweight and aerodynamic, making them the perfect accompaniment for your time machine. From the lava fields in Kona to the backcountry training rides in your hometown, the laser-focused Kestrel 5000 SL SRAM Red eTap Triathlon Bike delivers powerful results.

Does anyone else think this bike looks like an open mold?

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Make Inside Out Sports your next online tri shop! http://www.insideoutsports.com/

It is. There's at least 4 bikes now with the same mold, 2 others in this thread alone.

PS The Planet X version with Etap is $2k cheaper.

http://www.planetx.co.uk/...ap-edition-selcof-56

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--Chris

Interesting that they claim A2 tunnel designed unless they are just talking about the fairing on the front brake.

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Make Inside Out Sports your next online tri shop! http://www.insideoutsports.com/

Or maybe whoever designed the open mold tested it there and all 4 of them can claim that.

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--Chris

Is it possible that Kestrel designed/developed this frame, and then the Asian factories ripped them off? I'm not asking you specifically Bryan, but someone in-the-know might have some insight.

Planet X has had their version on their website for a few months now, so it seems that if anything it was Kestrel that did the ripping off.

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--Chris

Unlikely.

I haven't seen this frame on aliexpress, so it's not available (yet) for the average joe to pick up. The possibilities are;

1. Kestrel did not design the bike. A carbon frame producer is making the frame and licensing it out to anyone who is willing to pay. In this case, Kestrel is using misleading A2 wind tunnel claims to imply that they developed the bike.

-or-

2. Kestrel did design the bike. The A2 claims are accurate. However, they negotiated with the frame producer to share costs of production with the understanding that the manufacturer would have the right to license the frame to other companies.


...The aero/development claims are nothing new. When Planet X first released the Exocet 2, they made some bold claims about the frame being 'their' design, but the frame had already been on aliexpress and available to the general public to buy for some time. Now with the exocet 3, Kestrel is making the claim.

The guys at Flo cycling once described the process of #2 when first getting into business. IIRC, they opted to not share the costs and maintain all rights to their wheel designs and distribution.

Wonder why they are not selling a frameset?

It's practically identical to the Exo3, or is. Similar to the FM086/87 but definitely is not the same, the down tube gives it away.

Where Planet X's "XL" is the 57, Kestrel is actually putting out the 60cm - as a tall athlete I appreciate that, it's good to see another large bike on the market. If you ride a 54 the world is your oyster, but at my height it can be slim picking.

I'm out on this bike for 2017, LBS talked me down, plus I don't want a bike I want a frame. Hopefully some reviews will come through later in the year.

Thoughts on GB riding this to a 5th fastest split of the day at Alcatraz? Seemed to have performed well.

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Regards,
J. Smith

You are correct. A lot of factories will give you the option to share your technology/save on mold cost, OR pay more but keep your technology private. We have always opted for the paying more option.

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Chris Thornham
Co-Founder And Previous Owner Of FLO Cycling

Open Mold framesets look much better without any lettering on them. Be it Kestrel or Planet X.

So if Kestrel designed this bike, (or PX), would it still be appropriate to call it "open mold"?

Depends on who actually designed this? Do we or will we ever know.

Some people will know and can't confirm or deny out of respect for competitors.

I was reading this thread again and realized that the Kestrel Talon is actually the best selling bike from a certain large retailer. So, Kestrel is doing ok probably. They make what is essentially the cheapest carbon tri bike and sell them like hotcakes.

Hey Sweeney. I saw that you got your kestrel from Boca. How do you line your 4000?. I'm new to the sport and was talking to the owner of Boca and he suggested the new 5000sl but I was also considering the shiv expert. You comments would be greatly appreciated

Yes, it would.

Open mold isn't defined by who created with, but rather how it is made available to other companies to use it. ...I guess you could say that Kestrel designed this open mold frame (if that is the case).

I got my 4000 after having tested the Shiv. I thought the geometry on the Shiv was to up-right for me. The 4000 was just right, letting me get into a nice long and low position. Last year I got a Felt IA. The 4000 is now my travel bike because it's so easy to break down and set up. And I've kept using it for American Zoffingen because it's pounds lighter.

None of us know anything about the 5000 yet, but you can't go wrong dealing with Raul and his people at Boca Hawaii!

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''Sweeney - you can both crush your AG *and* cruise in dead last!! 😂 '' Murphy's Law

Those two bikes have nearly identical stack/reach measurements.

No they don't

Kestrel;
55536418
Shiv;
M5404056360814int7580L565425

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''Sweeney - you can both crush your AG *and* cruise in dead last!! 😂 '' Murphy's Law

Can you translate that pls?

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Books @ Amazon
"If only he had used his genius for niceness, instead of Evil." M. Smart

Kestrel 4000, size 55, stack 536, reach 418

Shiv

size M, stack 540, reach 405
size L, 565, 425

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''Sweeney - you can both crush your AG *and* cruise in dead last!! 😂 '' Murphy's Law

Aren't we talking about Kestrels new bike, the 5000? Stack of 543 and Reach of 405 in M(55). The geometry chart is available in the link the OP shared, or at http://www.kestrelbicycles.com/...-shimano-ultegra-di2

I was answering a question about my K4000, when someone else wrote ''aren't those two bikes virtually the same''

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''Sweeney - you can both crush your AG *and* cruise in dead last!! 😂 '' Murphy's Law

Ah, I see. My mistake.