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Trainingpeaks: Threshold pace = NGP for 30 min threshold test?
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When i upload my workout, Trainingpeaks does not calculate my normalized pace. What am I doing wrong? Do I need to change some settings?

I have a premium subscription, workout recorded with a Garmin 735XT och synced with Trainingpeaks from Garmin Connect.
Last edited by: slaentbjorn: Mar 26, 17 2:33
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Re: Trainingpeaks not calculating normalized pace [slaentbjorn] [ In reply to ]
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slaentbjorn wrote:
When i upload my workout, Trainingpeaks does not calculate my normalized pace. What am I doing wrong? Do I need to change some settings?

I have a premium subscription, workout recorded with a Garmin 735XT och synced with Trainingpeaks from Garmin Connect.

Your TSS is being displayed as hrTSS, computed by heart rate, which means you probably have no threshold pace entered in the settings.
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Re: Trainingpeaks not calculating normalized pace [DJFaithful] [ In reply to ]
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Thanks DJ Faithful! Never realized that threshold pace was part of the calculation on normalized pace. Thought it only had to do with elevation.

Thing is that the workout was my first LTP-test so I didn't have a threshold pace before. Used Friels method of running 30 min as hard as possible.

I entered my avg pace for the 30 min test (4:25/km). TP calculates NGP = 4:06/km.

Should I change my threshold pace to 4:06/km?
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Re: Trainingpeaks not calculating normalized pace [slaentbjorn] [ In reply to ]
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slaentbjorn wrote:
Thanks DJ Faithful! Never realized that threshold pace was part of the calculation on normalized pace. Thought it only had to do with elevation.

Thing is that the workout was my first LTP-test so I didn't have a threshold pace before. Used Friels method of running 30 min as hard as possible.

I entered my avg pace for the 30 min test (4:25/km). TP calculates NGP = 4:06/km.

Should I change my threshold pace to 4:06/km?

I still don't fully understand the issue. I recommend contacting Training Peaks support,
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Re: Trainingpeaks not calculating normalized pace [slaentbjorn] [ In reply to ]
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slaentbjorn wrote:
Thanks DJ Faithful! Never realized that threshold pace was part of the calculation on normalized pace. Thought it only had to do with elevation.

Thing is that the workout was my first LTP-test so I didn't have a threshold pace before. Used Friels method of running 30 min as hard as possible.

I entered my avg pace for the 30 min test (4:25/km). TP calculates NGP = 4:06/km.

Should I change my threshold pace to 4:06/km?

DJFaithful has got it all backwards here; your TSS value is being calculated from your heart rate (hrTSS) because you don't have an NGP calculated for that workout, or because you don't have a threshold pace set, not vice versa.

As you say, TrainingPeaks should calculate an NGP for your workout regardless of whether you have your threshold set or not, which would suggest that something is up with the data from that workout. Can you post up the chart of your data, is the elevation or pace all over the place? If it's too erratic (read: noisy data/spikes) in either pace or altitude then the NGP calculation won't work.

If your all out 30 min test interval was reasonably flat and evenly paced then for all intents and purposes your average pace will be the same as NGP and the same as your threshold (according to Friel's method).
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Re: Trainingpeaks not calculating normalized pace [awenborn] [ In reply to ]
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I have logged my workouts in TP since january. TP is not calculating NGP for any of my runs.

But if I enter a threshold pace and click "recalculate" TP will show a NGP. It seems like TP requires a value for threshold pace to calculate NGP, which to me makes no sense.

My test course was not flat (hard to find even a km of flat ground around my house). That's why I was looking for the NGP, the avg pace for my 30 min test run seemed a little slow. I will try to repeat the test soon on the track and get a better threshold value.
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Re: Trainingpeaks not calculating normalized pace [awenborn] [ In reply to ]
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awenborn wrote:
slaentbjorn wrote:
Thanks DJ Faithful! Never realized that threshold pace was part of the calculation on normalized pace. Thought it only had to do with elevation.

Thing is that the workout was my first LTP-test so I didn't have a threshold pace before. Used Friels method of running 30 min as hard as possible.

I entered my avg pace for the 30 min test (4:25/km). TP calculates NGP = 4:06/km.

Should I change my threshold pace to 4:06/km?


DJFaithful has got it all backwards here; your TSS value is being calculated from your heart rate (hrTSS) because you don't have an NGP calculated for that workout, or because you don't have a threshold pace set, not vice versa.

As you say, TrainingPeaks should calculate an NGP for your workout regardless of whether you have your threshold set or not, which would suggest that something is up with the data from that workout. Can you post up the chart of your data, is the elevation or pace all over the place? If it's too erratic (read: noisy data/spikes) in either pace or altitude then the NGP calculation won't work.

If your all out 30 min test interval was reasonably flat and evenly paced then for all intents and purposes your average pace will be the same as NGP and the same as your threshold (according to Friel's method).


Actually, I think I got it all frontwards. You just paraphrased exactly what I said, namely, that TSS is being computed by heart rate, (hrTSS,) because there is no threshold pace entered in the settings. I think you were confused by the "which mean," confused by the logical direction of that phrase.
Last edited by: DJFaithful: Mar 27, 17 20:06
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Re: Trainingpeaks not calculating normalized pace [slaentbjorn] [ In reply to ]
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slaentbjorn wrote:
Thanks DJ Faithful! Never realized that threshold pace was part of the calculation on normalized pace. Thought it only had to do with elevation.

Thing is that the workout was my first LTP-test so I didn't have a threshold pace before. Used Friels method of running 30 min as hard as possible.

I entered my avg pace for the 30 min test (4:25/km). TP calculates NGP = 4:06/km.

Should I change my threshold pace to 4:06/km?


You can make the activity "public" and post a link here. It'll be much easier to see what's going on.
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Re: Trainingpeaks not calculating normalized pace [DJFaithful] [ In reply to ]
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Link to workout: http://tpks.ws/qr8gX

I removed my threshold pace from settings and recalculated the workout to show you what I was looking at when I first posted. The value for normalized pace disappeared when I recalculated.
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Re: Trainingpeaks not calculating normalized pace [slaentbjorn] [ In reply to ]
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slaentbjorn wrote:
Link to workout: http://tpks.ws/qr8gX

I removed my threshold pace from settings and recalculated the workout to show you what I was looking at when I first posted. The value for normalized pace disappeared when I recalculated.


Although one doesn't need a threshold pace to calculate NGP, NGP's main purpose is in calculating rTSS, is it not? So without a threshold pace set, perhaps the program doesn't see the need to calculate NGP. I can take a look at some of my runs and see if I see the same behavior.

I'll have to take a look at in the morning when I can concentrate. I just started reading The Science of Running, and it's putting me to sleep. Great book, but it's sleep-inducing at 4 am.
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Re: Trainingpeaks not calculating normalized pace [DJFaithful] [ In reply to ]
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Ok, I just checked, and I can confirm the same behavior with a recent activity. This could still be a bug though. You might consider reporting it to TP support.
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