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Lionel Sanders enters a race on zwift....
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Love that he attends these things and to see what he can do over an hour!

https://twitter.com/TilburyDavis/status/844665285533675524
Last edited by: randomtriguy: Mar 22, 17 15:16
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Re: Lionel Sanders enters a race on zwift.... [randomtriguy] [ In reply to ]
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He rode past me while I was warming up last night. He was pushing a steady 5.2-5.4w/kg and quickly disappeared beyond me. Had a few people trying to draft him. Must have been after the race since I got on my bike at 3:30ish! Very cool to see him out there.
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Re: Lionel Sanders enters a race on zwift.... [JBcycl1st] [ In reply to ]
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he's on Zwift a fair bit it seems.... maybe 3-4x/week?
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Re: Lionel Sanders enters a race on zwift.... [randomtriguy] [ In reply to ]
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God damn, he burns 1500 calories in an hour at power output, the guys a beast.
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Re: Lionel Sanders enters a race on zwift.... [JBcycl1st] [ In reply to ]
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JBcycl1st wrote:
He rode past me while I was warming up last night. He was pushing a steady 5.2-5.4w/kg and quickly disappeared beyond me.

That seems to be not at all uncommon on Zwift. I've only tried a handful of races. But in every one so far, there's been a guy who does 6-7 W/kg for the first few minutes, and just disappears off the front. Then there's a small group of guys around 5 W/kg for the first 10 minutes or so. - and who can maintain 4-5 W/kg for the entire duration. Then there's carnage spread all over the place after that.

On my last "race" I averaged around 380W for 5-6 minutes (Power2Max) , while drafting, before getting spit out the back of a group of 7-8.
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Re: Lionel Sanders enters a race on zwift.... [trail] [ In reply to ]
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Sounds like every race I've done on zwift. Always turns into a time trial at about the half way mark. But hey, it's for training right?
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Re: Lionel Sanders enters a race on zwift.... [trail] [ In reply to ]
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trail wrote:
JBcycl1st wrote:
He rode past me while I was warming up last night. He was pushing a steady 5.2-5.4w/kg and quickly disappeared beyond me.


That seems to be not at all uncommon on Zwift. I've only tried a handful of races. But in every one so far, there's been a guy who does 6-7 W/kg for the first few minutes, and just disappears off the front. Then there's a small group of guys around 5 W/kg for the first 10 minutes or so. - and who can maintain 4-5 W/kg for the entire duration. Then there's carnage spread all over the place after that.

On my last "race" I averaged around 380W for 5-6 minutes (Power2Max) , while drafting, before getting spit out the back of a group of 7-8.

There is a load of people with dumb trainers configured with wrong curves... There are also those running TurboMuin with its "powermeter", that brag about their max 2-5 sec power measured by that :)
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Re: Lionel Sanders enters a race on zwift.... [michalp] [ In reply to ]
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Sometimes while riding on Saturdays I'll get bored and watch someone close that is catching me really fast.

Sometimes they'll be riding 5 W/Kg at 185bpm while others are at 105bpm. interesting enough, lately it's more of the former rather than the later.
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Re: Lionel Sanders enters a race on zwift.... [michalp] [ In reply to ]
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Are there known issues with the Turbo Muin powermeter? This guy at my office got one and all of the sudden he goes from a back of the pack cat B racer in zwift (~3.1 watts/kilo FTP) to an A rider at >4 w/k. He swears his old dumb trainer was wrong but I have my suspicions...especially seeing some of the real world rides he puts in. I'm a legitimate 3.7 w/k guy measured on a powertap who now has to hear his lectures and tips for "improving" like he has and it drive me nuts!
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Re: Lionel Sanders enters a race on zwift.... [gd28] [ In reply to ]
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gd28 wrote:
Are there known issues with the Turbo Muin powermeter? This guy at my office got one and all of the sudden he goes from a back of the pack cat B racer in zwift (~3.1 watts/kilo FTP) to an A rider at >4 w/k. He swears his old dumb trainer was wrong but I have my suspicions...especially seeing some of the real world rides he puts in. I'm a legitimate 3.7 w/k guy measured on a powertap who now has to hear his lectures and tips for "improving" like he has and it drive me nuts!

Just go for a ride with him and drop him

_________________________________
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Re: Lionel Sanders enters a race on zwift.... [gd28] [ In reply to ]
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gd28 wrote:
Are there known issues with the Turbo Muin powermeter? This guy at my office got one and all of the sudden he goes from a back of the pack cat B racer in zwift (~3.1 watts/kilo FTP) to an A rider at >4 w/k. He swears his old dumb trainer was wrong but I have my suspicions...especially seeing some of the real world rides he puts in. I'm a legitimate 3.7 w/k guy measured on a powertap who now has to hear his lectures and tips for "improving" like he has and it drive me nuts!


For sure it's not a power meter :) it's a power estimator. Secondly it's fluid based and this fluid is subjected to density changes depending on temperature. Is there any known issue? There is few, just read the comments - https://www.dcrainmaker.com/...-trainer-output.html
At the same time I know it's very good turbo and that power estimation is sufficient for beginners. Many of my friends use it together with some real power meter.
Last edited by: michalp: Mar 28, 17 9:50
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Re: Lionel Sanders enters a race on zwift.... [trail] [ In reply to ]
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trail wrote:
JBcycl1st wrote:
He rode past me while I was warming up last night. He was pushing a steady 5.2-5.4w/kg and quickly disappeared beyond me.


That seems to be not at all uncommon on Zwift. I've only tried a handful of races. But in every one so far, there's been a guy who does 6-7 W/kg for the first few minutes, and just disappears off the front. Then there's a small group of guys around 5 W/kg for the first 10 minutes or so. - and who can maintain 4-5 W/kg for the entire duration. Then there's carnage spread all over the place after that.

On my last "race" I averaged around 380W for 5-6 minutes (Power2Max) , while drafting, before getting spit out the back of a group of 7-8.

I've never entered a race on zwift before, but I've been curious about it. Firstly, my FTP is in the neighborhood of 3.4 Watts/KG or so (I suspect I need to retest, but it's not like the retest will land me at 6.3 or anything), which as I understand things puts me in the lower B Category. How does the class thing work? Does it require that you have done an FTP test on zwift (I have) and have entered in your weight (also, I have) and it determines whether you are in the right category? Or can you pretty much enter any race meaning you will get a few of the uber-bikers poaching the B, C, and D races?

Dan Mayberry
Amateur a lot of things, professional a few things.
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Re: Lionel Sanders enters a race on zwift.... [gd28] [ In reply to ]
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gd28 wrote:
Are there known issues with the Turbo Muin powermeter? This guy at my office got one and all of the sudden he goes from a back of the pack cat B racer in zwift (~3.1 watts/kilo FTP) to an A rider at >4 w/k. He swears his old dumb trainer was wrong but I have my suspicions...especially seeing some of the real world rides he puts in. I'm a legitimate 3.7 w/k guy measured on a powertap who now has to hear his lectures and tips for "improving" like he has and it drive me nuts!

This is quickly solved with an outdoor ride with him.

2x Deca-Ironman World Cup (10 Ironmans in 10 days), 2x Quintuple Ironman World Cup (5 Ironmans in 5 days), Ultraman, Ultra Marathoner, and I once did an Ironman.
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Re: Lionel Sanders enters a race on zwift.... [drm437] [ In reply to ]
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You enter yourself into whichever category you would fall into. Then during the race they take 95% of your highest 20 min average power and call that your FTP. If this number is too high for the category you entered yourself in then you will be disqualified and forced to move up.
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Re: Lionel Sanders enters a race on zwift.... [chuy] [ In reply to ]
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Trust me I'd love to get that chance, we just haven't been able to make it work and now he's sidelined for a couple of months due to an injury.
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Re: Lionel Sanders enters a race on zwift.... [gd28] [ In reply to ]
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gd28 wrote:
You enter yourself into whichever category you would fall into. Then during the race they take 95% of your highest 20 min average power and call that your FTP. If this number is too high for the category you entered yourself in then you will be disqualified and forced to move up.

That sounds pretty fair.

Cheers.

Dan Mayberry
Amateur a lot of things, professional a few things.
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Re: Lionel Sanders enters a race on zwift.... [gd28] [ In reply to ]
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gd28 wrote:
Trust me I'd love to get that chance, we just haven't been able to make it work and now he's sidelined for a couple of months due to an injury.

He probably hurt himself trying to put out that kind of wattage on a real ride.
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Re: Lionel Sanders enters a race on zwift.... [TriathlonJoe] [ In reply to ]
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Sounds like every race I've done on zwift. Always turns into a time trial at about the half way mark. But hey, it's for training right?

So do I understand correctly that you are complaining about people racing in a race?
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Re: Lionel Sanders enters a race on zwift.... [trineuropa] [ In reply to ]
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trineuropa wrote:

So do I understand correctly that you are complaining about people racing in a race?

Answering since I introduced the issue of "high performers" in Zwift races.

No, it's not complaining about people racing. It's a race. It's scepticism about the validity of some % of "high performers." I typically perform worse in a Zwift "Tri Fitness ride" (not even a race!) than in a Pro-1-2 criterium in real life. And people who can do 6-8 W/kg for upwards of 10 minutes are very rare in the real world. It could be largely legit. Zwift, is, after all, a global platform, while most of the racing I do is state and local. So there's a very large talent pool. It just seems that the talent pool is suspiciously top heavy. How many people can go up Box Hill at 6 W/kg? Not that many, right? And, so far, I haven't recognized any names. If I see an "L. Sanders" doing that, that's cool. Or an "A. Valverde". But I have some skepticism that some people are intentionally gaming their bodyweight, gender, or trainer params to go faster. Or unintentionally doing the same.

I'm not complaining really. I lose all the time in the real world too! I just kind of write Zwift off as "fun racing," not "real racing." Unless you enter the Zwift Academy stuff where you have to validate your power #s (at least that's my understanding).
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Re: Lionel Sanders enters a race on zwift.... [trail] [ In reply to ]
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I am not sure what races you are doing in Zwift but the EVR ones appear to be pretty legit, and the single west coast one I did was much more civilized than the East coast EVR races I normally do (i.e. the first few minutes aren't all out). I am towards the front of the Cat B races (3.9 W/kg), but obviously I don't race as intelligently as some others as I generally get beat by people putting out both lower total watts and lower W/kg. Although on the flatter courses the big guys come into the equation. Anyway, these lower cat races are an excellent workout/ride/race and almost everyone has either a smart trainer or power meter (can't actually remember the last time I saw a zPower dude in the results...maybe they're not permitted in these EVR races?). The cat A are another beast because there is obviously no upper limit, although if you go above 5 W/kg you have to provide real world results to back it up, which I think is very fair.

BTW, I will increase my weight to stay legit in cat B races (i.e. so I don't get DQ'd for going 4+ W/kg) as I have no desire to do cat A, especially since there are normally very few guys on the start line for these (at least for EVR which has separate starting points for each cat) compared to B and C. Maybe if you want more of a race and less of a TT that is an approach worth considering.
Last edited by: Magwister: Mar 28, 17 21:09
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