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Re: You tire choice: explain this [TriByran] [ In reply to ]
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This may be more likely with an SS as it's thinner, but ANY well worn tyre with little cuts in will do the same.


So don't race worn tyres.

'It never gets easier, you just get crazier.'
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Re: You tire choice: explain this [jens] [ In reply to ]
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jens wrote:
BikeTechReview wrote:


You also have the original work I published at A&M regarding tire aerodynamics...
I think there is opportunity for someone to make a well-shaped, narrow, low rolling resistance tire.


Good to hear from Kraig. The problem with these older tests, is they deal with the old, narrow rims. I think we all agree that narrow tires are going to work on narrow rims. What works on the newer, wider rims is a different question.

Jens!

I agree, there are some things folks could say are problematic with the data sets I've produced/published on this topic dating back to 2003. The a&m data has more "problems" than the 2010 san diego based data.

Yes, the 2010 lswt.com report is dated when it comes to tires/wheels - this is part of the reason why I have some discussion in the reports about things to look for when choosing aerodynamic tires.

Furthermore, I've tested plenty of the "fat" wheels with various tires (tubular and clincher)...all else equal, it's been my experience that narrow is aero.

=================
Kraig Willett
http://www.biketechreview.com - check out our reduced report pricing
=================
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Re: You tire choice: explain this [BikeTechReview] [ In reply to ]
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BikeTechReview wrote:
Furthermore, I've tested plenty of the "fat" wheels with various tires (tubular and clincher)...all else equal, it's been my experience that narrow is aero.

It's intriguing to hear you say this. Coming back to the sport after a hiatus, it does strike me that this wider-is-better trend has a faddish aspect. I'm hoping to do some roller tests on :

* My trusty Vittoria Crono (20c)
* Specialized turbo cottons (23c)
* Corsa Speed opens
* GP TTs

Next month I'm also aiming for a wind tunnel test of the Jet 9 Plus/Disc (with 23c Cottons or maybe GP TTs) vs. old 808/bump disc with 20c Crono tubulars.

If I had to bet, the old configuration (20c cronos) will lose by a watt or two on CRR, but win by about 5 on aerodynamics, at 0 to 5 yaw.

My latest book: "Out of the Melting Pot, Into the Fire" is on sale on Amazon and at other online and local booksellers
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Re: You tire choice: explain this [Slowman] [ In reply to ]
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- I respectfully disagree with tour statement that the Michelin Power Competition is a "better" tire than the Conti 4000 Sll. In areas of key difference, the Michelin is better in rolling resistance at tire pressures of 100 + ( about 1 watt per tire at 100 psi) but not as good at 80 or less ( 1 watt per tire worse at 60 psi). Certainly most people would not choose to ride at 60 psi, but if you are filling a flat with CO2 during a race that could certainly happen.
The bigger issue is puncture resistance. While both tires tested the same on tread, the Michelin is much thinner and weaker on sidewall durability and puncture resistance. So, for this metric, the Conti is clearly better.
Overall? I would rather ride a tire with great crr and above average durability than a tire with marginally better crr and below average durability.
It is really cool that we have such great choices đŸ˜€
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Re: You tire choice: explain this [Tom A.] [ In reply to ]
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Great timing getting your flat :)

So, did you use the 'cord' that came with the kit, or did you use your own version. I'm definitely getting one of these kit - I'm a little surprised/embarrassed I haven't thought of this method myself!

_______________________________________________
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Re: You tire choice: explain this [Bonesbrigade] [ In reply to ]
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Bonesbrigade wrote:
Great timing getting your flat :)

So, did you use the 'cord' that came with the kit, or did you use your own version.

I know, right? Of course, my riding partners were giving me shit for having gotten flats in 2 consecutive rides with them...although, they were quite impressed at the speed of the repair!

I used the rubber coated cord that came in the kit. I hadn't gotten any butcher's cord yet. I plan on trying that this week on the road tire I punctured last week and plugged with the T-shirt swatch. I'll push the current plug through first and then try with the butcher's cord. I'll take pics and see how it goes. At least I know I have the kit rubber cord as a backup.

To be honest, I'm not sure if in those we conditions the cotton cord would have worked as well as the rubber coated cord. The water was definitely keeping the sealant "liquid".

Bonesbrigade wrote:
I'm definitely getting one of these kit - I'm a little surprised/embarrassed I haven't thought of this method myself!

Same here...as I think I said above, I'm shocked it's not mentioned more in articles about tubeless setups. They pretty much all say that if you get a puncture the liquid can't seal, then you can just swap in a tube...which is typically much easier said than done :-/

I have a wheelbuilder friend who's a big proponent of road tubeless tires...I'm going to tell him about this and I also have an idea for a small repair kit he could supply with every wheelset he sets up that way which would be a nice little piece of advertising as well for him ;-)

http://bikeblather.blogspot.com/
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Re: You tire choice: explain this [Slowman] [ In reply to ]
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Slowman wrote:
"Is it fair to say that Flo is ahead of the game in their testing?"

i don't know. but i'd say that wheel makers who don't give tire advice, with data to support it, are missing a pretty inexpensive opportunity to do some real good for their customers.

while the internet has turned a bunch of average people into self-proclaimed experts, when it really comes down to it people don't want freedom and choice about things they know, in their hearts, they know nothing about. they want to be told what to do.

I've been thinking about this for a while now. A while as in a few years. I'd say at this point in time a consumer is better of selecting the tyre that best suits their needs and then trying to find the wheel that best optimises the performance of that tyre. But then hardly any wheel makers provide the data needed to reach an informed decision.
I'm not sure it's an inexpensive option for wheel makers to obtain this data though. To make even a half decent job of it that is going to mean testing s lot of tyres. Something like ~7 options minimum for the fastest possible combined crr/CdA, more than that for mid level performers with greater puncture protection like the Conti gp4000s. If they have Tubular wheels in their line up then that's another set of testing again. Each time a new wheel was released the same testing would need to be undertaken again.

On top of this I think it would only make sense for those wheel makers who don't also sell tyres under their name. Specialised can get away with it to a point because they have a fast tyre in the Turbo Cotton but even then I'd wager the roval would be faster with other tyres.
In fact the main reason I can see for wheel makers providing some data is as a marketing tool making it harder for other wheel makers to do their own comparison tests.

For instance if Zipp had released just a small amount of data showing how the Conti TT or SS tested on their NSW range then would Specialised still have chosen Zipp wheels as a comparison to the Roval!!! Specialised would have to have tested the Roval/TC combo against the 808/supersonic combo for instance.
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Re: You tire choice: explain this [Tom A.] [ In reply to ]
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Tom A. wrote:
Bonesbrigade wrote:
Great timing getting your flat :)


So, did you use the 'cord' that came with the kit, or did you use your own version.


I know, right? Of course, my riding partners were giving me shit for having gotten flats in 2 consecutive rides with them...although, they were quite impressed at the speed of the repair!

I used the rubber coated cord that came in the kit. I hadn't gotten any butcher's cord yet. I plan on trying that this week on the road tire I punctured last week and plugged with the T-shirt swatch. I'll push the current plug through first and then try with the butcher's cord. I'll take pics and see how it goes. At least I know I have the kit rubber cord as a backup.

To be honest, I'm not sure if in those we conditions the cotton cord would have worked as well as the rubber coated cord. The water was definitely keeping the sealant "liquid".

Bonesbrigade wrote:
I'm definitely getting one of these kit - I'm a little surprised/embarrassed I haven't thought of this method myself!


Same here...as I think I said above, I'm shocked it's not mentioned more in articles about tubeless setups. They pretty much all say that if you get a puncture the liquid can't seal, then you can just swap in a tube...which is typically much easier said than done :-/

I have a wheelbuilder friend who's a big proponent of road tubeless tires...I'm going to tell him about this and I also have an idea for a small repair kit he could supply with every wheelset he sets up that way which would be a nice little piece of advertising as well for him ;-)


I noticed these a while back and meant to post a link when I saw the Genuine Innovations kit go up the other day. Similar to the rubberized cords, these kits seem to have come from motorcycle or vehicle tires originally. The rubber plugging portion seems like it would easily fill a good size puncture, but the pointed brass ends look kind of scary. The bullet shaped versions might be a good option, but may be difficult to insert in smaller punctures:

http://www.wheelbuilder.com/dynaplug-micro-pro.html

http://www.dynaplug.com/
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Re: You tire choice: explain this [SummitAK] [ In reply to ]
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SummitAK wrote:

I noticed these a while back and meant to post a link when I saw the Genuine Innovations kit go up the other day. Similar to the rubberized cords, these kits seem to have come from motorcycle or vehicle tires originally. The rubber plugging portion seems like it would easily fill a good size puncture, but the pointed brass ends look kind of scary. The bullet shaped versions might be a good option, but may be difficult to insert in smaller punctures:

http://www.wheelbuilder.com/dynaplug-micro-pro.html

http://www.dynaplug.com/

Yeah, I've seen those just recently as well...but ~$60 vs. ~$7 is quite a price difference! Seems like overkill, especially if the cotton cord approach with the GI tool works out (which I'm happy to report it has so far. I need to put some miles on it to be sure :-)

Plus, it too seems to be marketed more towards MTB usage...

http://bikeblather.blogspot.com/
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Re: You tire choice: explain this [Tom A.] [ In reply to ]
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Tom A. wrote:
SummitAK wrote:


I noticed these a while back and meant to post a link when I saw the Genuine Innovations kit go up the other day. Similar to the rubberized cords, these kits seem to have come from motorcycle or vehicle tires originally. The rubber plugging portion seems like it would easily fill a good size puncture, but the pointed brass ends look kind of scary. The bullet shaped versions might be a good option, but may be difficult to insert in smaller punctures:

http://www.wheelbuilder.com/dynaplug-micro-pro.html

http://www.dynaplug.com/


Yeah, I've seen those just recently as well...but ~$60 vs. ~$7 is quite a price difference! Seems like overkill, especially if the cotton cord approach with the GI tool works out (which I'm happy to report it has so far. I need to put some miles on it to be sure :-)

Plus, it too seems to be marketed more towards MTB usage...

Wanted to bump this back up. Just saw this on instagram, dynaplug now has a version that plugs the hole and re-pressurizes the tire at the same time. This combined with the corsa speeds makes what might be not only the fastest tire, but also the fastest flat repair.
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Re: You tire choice: explain this [Sean H] [ In reply to ]
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Sean H wrote:

Wanted to bump this back up. Just saw this on instagram, dynaplug now has a version that plugs the hole and re-pressurizes the tire at the same time. This combined with the corsa speeds makes what might be not only the fastest tire, but also the fastest flat repair.

I don't know what you mean by re-pressurize at the same time. I didn't see that in either link you posted. And wouldn't make much sense given that there's already a compact, reliable, and fast way to reinflate with CO2. Are you confusing the fact that the cylindrical toolkit case *looks* like a CO2 cartridge with it actually being CO2?

That said, I got the Dynaplug kit a few months ago for my road tubeless, and it seems to work well on my Schwalbe Pro One tubeless, though only a sample size of two flats. Both flats were sealed by sealant, but I plugged for a more permanent fix. It seems pretty legit.

I haven't tried it on Corsa Speed yet (no flats), but I'd be a *little* worried. The plug seems to get purchase in the casing/tread, and I worry about how thin the CS casing is, e.g. whether the plug has enough material to bond with. I may never try it on my CS tires, though, since as a pure TTer I don't carry any flat kits while racing (my race is done if I flat), and I'd fix it with a proper internal patch after the race just to be really sure. There is some risk of the metal tip of the plug ripping the rim tape, etc, and I just don't want those metal tips in my race tires.

So far I think they're a great training ride tool, though.
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Re: You tire choice: explain this [trail] [ In reply to ]
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trail wrote:
Sean H wrote:

Wanted to bump this back up. Just saw this on instagram, dynaplug now has a version that plugs the hole and re-pressurizes the tire at the same time. This combined with the corsa speeds makes what might be not only the fastest tire, but also the fastest flat repair.

I don't know what you mean by re-pressurize at the same time. I didn't see that in either link you posted. And wouldn't make much sense given that there's already a compact, reliable, and fast way to reinflate with CO2. Are you confusing the fact that the cylindrical toolkit case *looks* like a CO2 cartridge with it actually being CO2?

That said, I got the Dynaplug kit a few months ago for my road tubeless, and it seems to work well on my Schwalbe Pro One tubeless, though only a sample size of two flats. Both flats were sealed by sealant, but I plugged for a more permanent fix. It seems pretty legit.

I haven't tried it on Corsa Speed yet (no flats), but I'd be a *little* worried. The plug seems to get purchase in the casing/tread, and I worry about how thin the CS casing is, e.g. whether the plug has enough material to bond with. I may never try it on my CS tires, though, since as a pure TTer I don't carry any flat kits while racing (my race is done if I flat), and I'd fix it with a proper internal patch after the race just to be really sure. There is some risk of the metal tip of the plug ripping the rim tape, etc, and I just don't want those metal tips in my race tires.

So far I think they're a great training ride tool, though.

Sorry, links were in what I quoted and I forgot to add mine.

https://instagram.com/p/BQW753xALg3/
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Re: You tire choice: explain this [trail] [ In reply to ]
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trail wrote:
Sean H wrote:

Wanted to bump this back up. Just saw this on instagram, dynaplug now has a version that plugs the hole and re-pressurizes the tire at the same time. This combined with the corsa speeds makes what might be not only the fastest tire, but also the fastest flat repair.

I don't know what you mean by re-pressurize at the same time. I didn't see that in either link you posted. And wouldn't make much sense given that there's already a compact, reliable, and fast way to reinflate with CO2. Are you confusing the fact that the cylindrical toolkit case *looks* like a CO2 cartridge with it actually being CO2?

That said, I got the Dynaplug kit a few months ago for my road tubeless, and it seems to work well on my Schwalbe Pro One tubeless, though only a sample size of two flats. Both flats were sealed by sealant, but I plugged for a more permanent fix. It seems pretty legit.

I haven't tried it on Corsa Speed yet (no flats), but I'd be a *little* worried. The plug seems to get purchase in the casing/tread, and I worry about how thin the CS casing is, e.g. whether the plug has enough material to bond with. I may never try it on my CS tires, though, since as a pure TTer I don't carry any flat kits while racing (my race is done if I flat), and I'd fix it with a proper internal patch after the race just to be really sure. There is some risk of the metal tip of the plug ripping the rim tape, etc, and I just don't want those metal tips in my race tires.

So far I think they're a great training ride tool, though.

The Dynaplug sounds like a bit of overkill then when compared to the ~$6 Genuine Innovations kit mentioned earlier...especially since I've found that cotton butcher's cord works pretty well in combination with sealant (as an alternative to the unvulcanized rubber coated cords supplied with the GI kit).

http://bikeblather.blogspot.com/
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