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What's the protocol for cyclists making left turns on 2 lane roundabouts? (Ontario)
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I have a 2 lane roundabout along my daily commute which I have to navigate twice. Both times are left hand turns, as I take different routes to and from work. Mornings aren't so bad, since most traffic is "with me", but in the evening I find I'm often crossing paths with traffic as I navigate the roundabout.

Picture for return leg of the trip is below. The roundabout is 2 lanes in all directions. Speed limit is either 40 or 50km/h (24 or 31m/h for our American friends) as one direction has a school zone. Each entry/exit has a bike lane but the roundabout itself does not. The bike lanes "disappear" onto the sidewalk - where the design intent appears to be to try to force cyclists onto the sidewalk to become pedestrians, but where I live we're allowed to take the lane. The roundabout is also "pedestrian priority" if that makes any difference, and is also slightly uphill towards north.




Basically, I have 3 options.

1 - Enter the roundabout on the right hand lane - this involves taking the roundabout on the right hand side at all times, but involves crossing a lane mid-roundabout. Note that the markings indicate that the right lane is for going right or straight. Other than the part where you cross traffic, this "feels" the safest option to navigate.
2 - Enter the roundabout using the left hand lane. Markings indicate that this lane is for left or straight. I've done this a few times and it involves mingling/lining up with traffic and less safe than the right hand option, even though it is what is marked on the road. This feels less safe since I'm also 2 lanes away from oncoming traffic going south, and as visible as I try to be, I'm still less visible than a car.
3 - Take the sidewalk. I don't want to do this since I am allowed to use the roundabout as a vehicle and I'm set on using the roundabout as a cyclist.

Usually I take option 1 (Right hand lane), as it feels the safest option without becoming a pedestrian. Most times the roundabout is either clear of traffic (especially in the morning), or drivers see my signal and recognize that I have to cross a lane within the roundabout. Most drivers are extremely courteous, and will stop to allow me to make my lane change safely.

Today, however, a lady in an SUV didn't see me at all until she saw my left signal and partial shift leftwards within the right lane leftwards. She slams on the breaks, thinking that I'm veering towards her in the lane. Car #2 also doesn't pay attention and slams on their brakes at the last minute, narrowly avoiding a rear end collision. For my part, I was safe - I elected to proceed straight through instead of turning, but this near-accident has prompted a rethink of how I approach the intersection, both for my own safety, and for any confusion I cause.

Thoughts?
Last edited by: timbasile: Jul 26, 16 17:16
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Re: What's the protocol for cyclists making left turns on 2 lane roundabouts? (Ontario) [timbasile] [ In reply to ]
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Inside lane has right of way, the only time you should be in the right hand lane is when you're trying to exit on to the street you want to use..
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Re: What's the protocol for cyclists making left turns on 2 lane roundabouts? (Ontario) [racin_rusty] [ In reply to ]
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I should note that the inside lane exits on into the left lane, which is part of "feeling less safe when I take the left lane." This is partly due to a third lane (which is right hand turn for southbound traffic) and is often taken at high speeds. This lane then merges into 1 on Cambrian. Traffic often takes this at high speeds and merges straight away into the left lane. (though yes, the right lane also suffers from this but at least I can make eye contact with the driver)

I recognize that inside lane does have the right of way, but it just feels less safe to me for partly this reason. (and all else equal, I'll take perception of safety over everything other than quantifiable safety)
Last edited by: timbasile: Jul 26, 16 17:22
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Re: What's the protocol for cyclists making left turns on 2 lane roundabouts? (Ontario) [timbasile] [ In reply to ]
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I've always felt at risk as a cyclist in roundabouts with moderate to heavy traffic--IMO, they're not really designed with mixed use in mind. I would avoid this one if possible. Can you travel straight through and make a left a block or two ahead and work back to Cambrian? Or change your route altogether? If you can't avoid it, I guess my advice would be to get in that inner lane as directed for traffic, or if volume is too heavy, make a judgment call early and become a pedestrian after traveling straight through.
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Re: What's the protocol for cyclists making left turns on 2 lane roundabouts? (Ontario) [timbasile] [ In reply to ]
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I would take the whole of the left lane, then signal and merge into the right lane to exit after passing 180 degrees of the roundabout (i.e. once any vehicles going straight over have exited). This is a situation where I think you have to assert your right to take the whole lane. Just make sure you have a bright flashing red light on your seat post and other high-visibility gear.
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Re: What's the protocol for cyclists making left turns on 2 lane roundabouts? (Ontario) [timbasile] [ In reply to ]
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i use the right-hand lane (option 1) and take the whole lane, being very watchful of cars entering from my right. The cars entering from my right are supposed to yield to traffic in the circle, so they are usually slowing and looking to their left, and have the best chance of noticing me. If i were hugging the right hand-side instead of taking the lane, then entering cars would be more focused on the car beside me than on me.

Taking the left, inside, lane means crossing the right lane when you exit and car drivers have an awful lot to look out for at that point. They don'e expect bicycles there. I am not that brave.

Taking the sidewalk is just too scary, unless you are willing to stop and then wait for cars to stop and let you cross. Good way for the polite driver to get rear-ended.

run well, run happy
george
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Re: What's the protocol for cyclists making left turns on 2 lane roundabouts? (Ontario) [timbasile] [ In reply to ]
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If I had to do it I would probably go on the inside lane but it looks pretty sketchy to me.

When I look at the area in Google maps, I think I'd be making that left turn earlier at Blackleaf Drive before the roundabout where there is a dedicated left turn lane and making my way back to your route from there. The next intersection on your route after the roundabout is a 4 way stop and the next after that is a single lane roundabout. Either of those would be safer IMO.
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Re: What's the protocol for cyclists making left turns on 2 lane roundabouts? (Ontario) [georgereid] [ In reply to ]
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georgereid wrote:
i use the right-hand lane (option 1) and take the whole lane, being very watchful of cars entering from my right. The cars entering from my right are supposed to yield to traffic in the circle, so they are usually slowing and looking to their left, and have the best chance of noticing me. If i were hugging the right hand-side instead of taking the lane, then entering cars would be more focused on the car beside me than on me.

Taking the left, inside, lane means crossing the right lane when you exit and car drivers have an awful lot to look out for at that point. They don'e expect bicycles there. I am not that brave.

Taking the sidewalk is just too scary, unless you are willing to stop and then wait for cars to stop and let you cross. Good way for the polite driver to get rear-ended.

First of all, once you enter the roundabout you TECHNICALLY have right of way on all cars entering the roundabout here in Ontario (to my best knowledge). Like Georgereid said, enter in the right lane, stay in the right lane, take the whole right lane, cover 270 degrees of the roundabout and exit right.

I have a couple near my home that I have to use for every ride and that is what I do. Having said that while we TECHNICALLY have the right of way, the cars are very inattentive and scan the roundabout when they enter for CARS and more often than not miss seeing the cycling coming around (especially if you are entering with a big tailwind and at 40 kph and able to take the roundabout faster than most cars). Being a cyclists and having right of way is totally useless when you get hit by a few tons of metal. Nothing happens to the driver and you end up in hospital. So be really attentive towards entering traffic, slow down and be ready to stop in the event that the driver ignores your right of way and enters smack in front of you.
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Re: What's the protocol for cyclists making left turns on 2 lane roundabouts? (Ontario) [timbasile] [ In reply to ]
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Yup I agree with what people are saying. Protocol is one thing and then there is the fact that nobody seems to know or follow the rules in roundabouts which makes it a big problem.

We have many new roundabouts in Miami (where we're kind of famous for our crappy drivers) and as a cyclist and a motorist I have a slight sense of terror every time I approach one because it seems people just done have a clue.

My current strategy is to be super obvious about what I'm doing as I enter the roundabout and never to assume that the drivers around me have any flipping clue what they are doing.
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Re: What's the protocol for cyclists making left turns on 2 lane roundabouts? (Ontario) [timbasile] [ In reply to ]
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Regardless of who has right of way, riding through a two lane roundabout (we call them rotaries here in MA) is an accident waiting to happen. Most drivers don't seem to know how to negotiate one. Toss a bicycle into the equation, and they're going to be even more confused. I would do everything I could to find an alternative route, even if that meant walking my bike along the sidewalk to avoid the roundabout and riding again when I'm past it. As others have said, right-of-way, and the rules of the road don't mean much when your mixing it up with a car.
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Re: What's the protocol for cyclists making left turns on 2 lane roundabouts? (Ontario) [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
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devashish_paul wrote:
georgereid wrote:
i use the right-hand lane (option 1) and take the whole lane, being very watchful of cars entering from my right. The cars entering from my right are supposed to yield to traffic in the circle, so they are usually slowing and looking to their left, and have the best chance of noticing me. If i were hugging the right hand-side instead of taking the lane, then entering cars would be more focused on the car beside me than on me.

Taking the left, inside, lane means crossing the right lane when you exit and car drivers have an awful lot to look out for at that point. They don'e expect bicycles there. I am not that brave.

Taking the sidewalk is just too scary, unless you are willing to stop and then wait for cars to stop and let you cross. Good way for the polite driver to get rear-ended.


First of all, once you enter the roundabout you TECHNICALLY have right of way on all cars entering the roundabout here in Ontario (to my best knowledge). Like Georgereid said, enter in the right lane, stay in the right lane, take the whole right lane, cover 270 degrees of the roundabout and exit right.

I have a couple near my home that I have to use for every ride and that is what I do. Having said that while we TECHNICALLY have the right of way, the cars are very inattentive and scan the roundabout when they enter for CARS and more often than not miss seeing the cycling coming around (especially if you are entering with a big tailwind and at 40 kph and able to take the roundabout faster than most cars). Being a cyclists and having right of way is totally useless when you get hit by a few tons of metal. Nothing happens to the driver and you end up in hospital. So be really attentive towards entering traffic, slow down and be ready to stop in the event that the driver ignores your right of way and enters smack in front of you.

I ride this exact roundabout (Cambrian/Jockvale) pretty regularly coming from the west off of Cambrian onto Jockvale heading north and I do exactly as indicated by Dev (bold added for emphasis). I don't know if it's technically correct but it feels like the safest option to me.
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Re: What's the protocol for cyclists making left turns on 2 lane roundabouts? (Ontario) [timbasile] [ In reply to ]
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timbasile wrote:
3 - Take the sidewalk. I don't want to do this since I am allowed to use the roundabout as a vehicle and I'm set on using the roundabout as a cyclist.

I'm taking the sidewalk or cross-walk all day if there is traffic. You are "allowed" to do a lot of things that are not a good idea. It's just not worth the risk to me. I am apprehensive to drive into these things in my car because nobody knows wtf they are doing, regardless what city it's in.
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Re: What's the protocol for cyclists making left turns on 2 lane roundabouts? (Ontario) [timbasile] [ In reply to ]
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I would be following the rules and going with option 2, enter in the left lane, take the inner lane and exit in the left lane then move right once clear of the roundabout.

If we want to be treated as part of traffic we need to act like we are part of traffic and follow the same rules. This is the most predictable move and doesn't force drivers to guess at what you are going to do next which is what causes issues. Take the lane and go with the set traffic pattern rather than making it up as you go and forcing other drivers to guess.
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Re: What's the protocol for cyclists making left turns on 2 lane roundabouts? (Ontario) [Duct_Taper] [ In reply to ]
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Duct_Taper wrote:
I ride this exact roundabout (Cambrian/Jockvale) pretty regularly coming from the west off of Cambrian onto Jockvale heading north and I do exactly as indicated by Dev (bold added for emphasis). I don't know if it's technically correct but it feels like the safest option to me.

That's my morning commute - then east on Strandherd. For some reason I find the mornings easier to do exactly this as described. In the morning, most people are going either North to Strandherd, or south to POW. Either way they've either already turned, or are going in the same direction as me. In the afternoon there tends to be more people going every which way and crossing that E/W divide which is causing me headaches.

I didn't figure there'd be so many Ottawans lurking here!
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Re: What's the protocol for cyclists making left turns on 2 lane roundabouts? (Ontario) [Zenmaster28] [ In reply to ]
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Zenmaster28 wrote:
If I had to do it I would probably go on the inside lane but it looks pretty sketchy to me.

When I look at the area in Google maps, I think I'd be making that left turn earlier at Blackleaf Drive before the roundabout where there is a dedicated left turn lane and making my way back to your route from there. The next intersection on your route after the roundabout is a 4 way stop and the next after that is a single lane roundabout. Either of those would be safer IMO.

I hadn't considered that route. There's often construction going in and out from there, and the two way traffic to make the left can often be tricky that time of day, but I'll give it a try next time. :)
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Re: What's the protocol for cyclists making left turns on 2 lane roundabouts? (Ontario) [aarondb4] [ In reply to ]
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aarondb4 wrote:

I would be following the rules and going with option 2, enter in the left lane, take the inner lane and exit in the left lane then move right once clear of the roundabout.

If we want to be treated as part of traffic we need to act like we are part of traffic and follow the same rules. This is the most predictable move and doesn't force drivers to guess at what you are going to do next which is what causes issues. Take the lane and go with the set traffic pattern rather than making it up as you go and forcing other drivers to guess.


This was the answer based on an informal poll of Strava-ites from my feed: Act like a car, but be prepared/aware of cars who don't see you (because they won't).

The trouble though with predictable is that most cyclists are using the sidewalk and tend not to think of us as vehicles to begin with. This makes the drivers unpredictable, to a degree. (and I'd rather that they be predictable)
Last edited by: timbasile: Jul 27, 16 17:28
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Re: What's the protocol for cyclists making left turns on 2 lane roundabouts? (Ontario) [timbasile] [ In reply to ]
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Solution: move to New Zealand. Turn left.

*SOLVED*
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Re: What's the protocol for cyclists making left turns on 2 lane roundabouts? (Ontario) [georgereid] [ In reply to ]
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The issue with staying in the RHL isn't cars entering from your right, it's cars leaving from your left. Nobody is supposed to be in the RHL who isn't exiting, so you're actually more at risk by staying in that lane for longer than you're supposed to be, because vehicles exiting from the left won't expect you to be there. Similarly, you <shouldn't> need to worry getting hit as you cross the RHL from the LHL, because anyone coming up behind you in that lane should be exiting at the same turn as you.

Of course, this depends on everyone knowing how to use a roundabout - which I appreciate isn't a sure thing in Ontario - and in addition to knowing the rules, on following them... again, not a completely sure thing.
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