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Re: Time savings - Sleeveless tri top vs Aero Jersey. [chaparral] [ In reply to ]
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chaparral wrote:
Thomas Gerlach wrote:
devashish_paul wrote:
ClayDavis wrote:
solitude wrote:
why are some pros still not wearing sleeved kit? Ignorance, sponsorship obligations, or are they outliers in that the sleeves for whatever reason are not as fast for them?


I think Gerlach's post above is one reason - the "potential" savings from the wind tunnel (i.e. you put it on bone dry and take your time to get it fitting just right) are not likely to be the "actual" savings in a race (i.e. you either hurriedly pull it on over your wet arms/shoulders in T1, or you had it on during the swim and it's been pulled/stretched this way and that). Given that even under the ideal conditions of a wind tunnel, some sleeved suits actually test slower for some people, it seems totally reasonable that in real world race conditions you're as likely to lose time with a sleeved suit as you are to gain from it. I've heard pros give this exact reason for why they've stuck with sleeveless.


Anyone see pics from Brent McMahon's 4:12 bike split in Brasil today (overally time 7:46)? I just saw run pics and he is in sleeveless traditional top.


Yep, I came on here to post that exact thing. Figured I would re-check this post before doing so. Sure enough, good ol' Paul. Anyway, second fastest time ever and no sleeves, what gives???


Is there a question here? Maybe he would have gone even faster with a sleeve top. Really setting a very fast time without sleeves says nothing about if sleeves are faster or not. Unless he had an exact clone racing at the same time with a sleeve top and was slower. If not it is meaningless.

The question is tongue-and-cheek, B=but you are right we have no idea, he could have been slower with sleeves, faster with sleeves, or the same.


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Re: Time savings - Sleeveless tri top vs Aero Jersey. [chaparral] [ In reply to ]
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chaparral wrote:
Thomas Gerlach wrote:
devashish_paul wrote:
ClayDavis wrote:
solitude wrote:
why are some pros still not wearing sleeved kit? Ignorance, sponsorship obligations, or are they outliers in that the sleeves for whatever reason are not as fast for them?


I think Gerlach's post above is one reason - the "potential" savings from the wind tunnel (i.e. you put it on bone dry and take your time to get it fitting just right) are not likely to be the "actual" savings in a race (i.e. you either hurriedly pull it on over your wet arms/shoulders in T1, or you had it on during the swim and it's been pulled/stretched this way and that). Given that even under the ideal conditions of a wind tunnel, some sleeved suits actually test slower for some people, it seems totally reasonable that in real world race conditions you're as likely to lose time with a sleeved suit as you are to gain from it. I've heard pros give this exact reason for why they've stuck with sleeveless.


Anyone see pics from Brent McMahon's 4:12 bike split in Brasil today (overally time 7:46)? I just saw run pics and he is in sleeveless traditional top.


Yep, I came on here to post that exact thing. Figured I would re-check this post before doing so. Sure enough, good ol' Paul. Anyway, second fastest time ever and no sleeves, what gives???


Is there a question here? Maybe he would have gone even faster with a sleeve top. Really setting a very fast time without sleeves says nothing about if sleeves are faster or not. Unless he had an exact clone racing at the same time with a sleeve top and was slower. If not it is meaningless.

Sleeves on tri suits are like new bike standards... Its just a way for manufacturers to make more money
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Re: Time savings - Sleeveless tri top vs Aero Jersey. [Thomas Gerlach] [ In reply to ]
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I have to make a decision as to what to wear for this Sunday's MT 70.3. I was planning on wearing an unzipped LG M2 top under my wetsuit until I tried swimming in that configuration. Don't know why such a thin layer of tight fitting fabric would make any difference under a wetsuit, but I swear it impacted my reach and catch. I never felt comfortable. So that plan is out. That leaves wearing a tight fitting sleeveless Tri top for the entire race, or going topless for the swim and putting the LG M2 top on in T1. I have tried putting the LG M2 on when wet and figure I will lose up to 45 seconds in T1 going that route. So now the question becomes, am I going to get that lost time back on the bike, and if not, then I really should keep it simple and just wear a traditional Tri top for the whole race. For a full IM, losing 45 seconds in T1 is probably worth it. For a 70.3 I am not so sure.
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Re: Time savings - Sleeveless tri top vs Aero Jersey. [Scott_B] [ In reply to ]
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Re: Time savings - Sleeveless tri top vs Aero Jersey. [Thomas Gerlach] [ In reply to ]
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Any time I might save in T1 by wearing the M2 under my wetsuit will be lost on the swim. I guess I will go with the sleeveless Tri top the whole race. Might be slower on the bike, but faster and more comfortable overall.
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Re: Time savings - Sleeveless tri top vs Aero Jersey. [desert dude] [ In reply to ]
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desert dude wrote:
We've run a few tests with calf sleeves and I've seen 1 other test done with them.
1-2 test there was no difference
1-2 was faster
1-2 was slower.

it seems flip a coin and hope it works for you.

Have you ever tested anything like the NoPinz trip sockz?
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Re: Time savings - Sleeveless tri top vs Aero Jersey. [Scott_B] [ In reply to ]
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Quote:
going topless for the swim and putting the LG M2 top on in T1. I have tried putting the LG M2 on when wet and figure I will lose up to 45 seconds in T1 going that route.

You're asking the wrong question here, It's not relevant how much time you'll lose.

The relevant question is how far is the run from waters edge to T1 to your bike. That should be the #1 factor in determining if you wear a top that you pull up after zipping wetsuit down.

If it's a short run and you're going to be standing around by your bike struggling then it's a tougher decision. If it's a long run who cares how long it takes, just pull up the top on the run to the gear bag.

let's take 2 examples: Local sprint race with a long run from the water to your bike, call it 2:30. Wear the sleeved top and pull it on during the run to your bike.
Vineman 70.3. Last time I raced there my run from waters edge to my bike was < :30sec. Then it becomes a much tougher call bc your wetsuit probably isn't off enough to get the top on before you get to the bike. So you have to decide, take another :30 to get top on or use that :30 to get closer to the finish line. You'll need to decide if the time lost is worth putting on the top. I know what my time margin is, but your time margin will be different.

Brian Stover USAT LII
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Re: Time savings - Sleeveless tri top vs Aero Jersey. [desert dude] [ In reply to ]
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It's just the top, not a 1 piece suit. If I bring it with me on the swim, it will be totally off. I could roll it up and stuff in the wetsuit, but then I have to struggle with putting on the entire top while running. I did try putting body glide on the inside of the sleeves, and that cuts the time in half - say 20-25 seconds. That starts making more sense, not even counting the sun protection that the top provides.
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