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Re: Did the Triathlon bike kill triathlon? [cmscat50] [ In reply to ]
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I an going to put an opposite spin the bike and the swim are the main reason triathlons are popular.

Running has lots of options. There races every weekend

The cycling is a lot less intimidating compared to road, mtb and cyclocross racing. There are master swimming meets and some open water races but those limited in a lot of areas.

If you want to race and you main interest is swimming or cycling triathlon is the most accessible option.
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Re: Did the Triathlon bike kill triathlon? [kileyay] [ In reply to ]
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Compared to the people who train

Developing aero, fit and other fun stuff at Red is Faster
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Re: Did the Triathlon bike kill triathlon? [kileyay] [ In reply to ]
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kileyay wrote:
I had a clunky alloy road bike but was reasonably fit when I bought my first tri bike...I remember on my fist ride I was shocked to average 21.5 mph. Previous rides at that intensity were around 19 mph. Of course, this was largely due to my position and much less to do with the aerodynamics of the bike itself, but it still amazed me. What hasn't amazed me is the marginal gains I have made since then, especially on a dollar/speed basis. I think that is where people get suckered!
This was my exact experience this year. I rode my 30 YO road bike and then rode the almost same route on a borrowed TT bike over 2 MPH faster. I was blown away and bought my own TT bike a week-and-a-half later. But, it was position more than the bike. I am sure that my IA16 is faster than the 15 year old Aegis bike I borrowed, but the difference is not that apparent.

Since then, I have been strategically investing in speed, but the incremental gains less dramatic. An $80 Bell Javelin helmet got me another 0.5 MPH, so I am pretty thrilled with that spend. Next will be a one-piece sleeved tri-suit (in the mail). I am looking forward to a time trial test to see how much faster that is for me. But after that, I will be into the bigger bucks land (wheels) for smaller speed gains.
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Re: Did the Triathlon bike kill triathlon? [exxxviii] [ In reply to ]
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I'm a young'n, but if tris start to die, it's because short course is dying.

Not all people can train 20h a week to do ironmen. Many could do 5h, look at the counts for marathons.

Bucket list people may jump in and do a 140.6 and done, but the people who stick around start on the local sprints and keep coming back.

Those are the people we need to nurture to keep the sport growing. Some guys here doing new triathlete training classes for free. learn how to do transition and have some OWS practices. This is huge...
Last edited by: copperman: May 27, 16 13:51
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Re: Did the Triathlon bike kill triathlon? [copperman] [ In reply to ]
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copperman wrote:
I'm a young in, but I'd tris start to die, it's because short course is dying.

Not all people can train 20h a week to do ironmen. Many could do 5h, look at the counts for marathons.

Bucket list people may jump in and do a 140.6 and done, but the people who stick around start on the local sprints and keep coming back.

Those are the people we need to nurture to keep the sport growing. Some guys here doing new triathlete training classes for free. learn how to do transition and have some OWS practices. This is huge...

Most folks could care less about the longer stuff. Only in the US do some folks, like on ST, freak out that for some crazy reason if you do not live for an IM, there is something wrong with you. (Yep, it got me to do 2 IM's because of this)

I love short course racing. Been doing for 20 years. I can race so many more races. I see my friends more often. And for me, TeamUSA is much for fun to chase than
IMH any day. :)

Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

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Re: Did the Triathlon bike kill triathlon? [Sidney Porter] [ In reply to ]
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h2ofun wrote:
Sweeney wrote:
h2ofun wrote:
what do you mean there is no competition in Duathlon? Look at the top rankings of folks. There run times are sick. Look at Duathlon National results.
Again, the top folks would kick the butt of most triathletes doing the Du.

I think they mean ''participants''. Look at the 2015 Nationals results; Duathlon got 274 finishers, Triathlon got 2609 finishers.

American Zofingen, one of the few successful duathlons in past years, this year had under 100 entries.

Duathlon should be huge. You can put on a du anywhere at a much bigger time of year. Duathlon was big in the past. It started dying about when they changed the name from Biathlon. I also think that the Triathlon Wetsuit, which made it so much easier to swim, caused the downfall of Biathlon. Now anyone could swim, no more need to do the Du.

Totally agree about participants. Hardly anyone does Duathlon. They are so painful compared to Triathlons.

But as I said, look at the times, even from old guys, at Duathlon Nationals last year. Were just sick. I know when I go to Bend I am going to be killed, but it will be fun
anyways.

I see we've circeld back around on Duathlons again.

Here's the short version on why duathlons aren't more popular: They're fucking lame. Yeah, I said it, though I know a few partisans will get butthurt and try to defend it. Sure, there are a few super fast dudes doing them, but only because they can't swim for shit or they'd rather be dominating bad-ass triathletes if they could.

For a less snarky version, here's what I said the first time someone asked why they weren't more popular, if you'll excuse the obnoxiousness of quoting myself from the same thread (but in my defense someone else asked the exact same question yet again later in the thread):

OneGoodLeg wrote:
Daniel Clarke wrote:
Broken Leg Guy wrote:
arby wrote:
My most recent "triathlon" conversation was last weekend with a young lady at Starbucks. She thought it was great that I raced triathlon and said she would really love to do one "if not for the swim". I agree, I think the swimming portion of the event is the limiter.

Due to this fact, I'm always amazed Duathlons aren't more popular.

X2.

I would say that the cost of triathlon, and especially the bike, is definitely a limited. It's so much less expensive to be a runner. You only need your shoes to get in a workout, even expensive races like Boston are far cheaper than WTC events, and then you don't have all the bike associated expenses (bike, tubes, tires, chains, clothing, tune-ups, etc).


I'd say that paradoxically, this is precisely WHY duathlons aren't more popular; they're simply too pedestrian (literally and figuratively), and thus fail to capture the imagination to an approximate degree as incorporating another discipline that is more unlike the other 2.

And here's another variation on essentially the same premise:

Sidney Porter wrote:
I an going to put an opposite spin the bike and the swim are the main reason triathlons are popular.

Running has lots of options. There races every weekend

The cycling is a lot less intimidating compared to road, mtb and cyclocross racing. There are master swimming meets and some open water races but those limited in a lot of areas.

If you want to race and you main interest is swimming or cycling triathlon is the most accessible option.

How many other posts have there been here saying people still bike & run and do biking or running events, and yet few or no duathlons? Add a swim and you have an 'Event'; without it, it's just biking & running, meh...
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Re: Did the Triathlon bike kill triathlon? [OneGoodLeg] [ In reply to ]
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OneGoodLeg wrote:
h2ofun wrote:
Sweeney wrote:
h2ofun wrote:
what do you mean there is no competition in Duathlon? Look at the top rankings of folks. There run times are sick. Look at Duathlon National results.
Again, the top folks would kick the butt of most triathletes doing the Du.


I think they mean ''participants''. Look at the 2015 Nationals results; Duathlon got 274 finishers, Triathlon got 2609 finishers.

American Zofingen, one of the few successful duathlons in past years, this year had under 100 entries.

Duathlon should be huge. You can put on a du anywhere at a much bigger time of year. Duathlon was big in the past. It started dying about when they changed the name from Biathlon. I also think that the Triathlon Wetsuit, which made it so much easier to swim, caused the downfall of Biathlon. Now anyone could swim, no more need to do the Du.


Totally agree about participants. Hardly anyone does Duathlon. They are so painful compared to Triathlons.

But as I said, look at the times, even from old guys, at Duathlon Nationals last year. Were just sick. I know when I go to Bend I am going to be killed, but it will be fun
anyways.


I see we've circeld back around on Duathlons again.

Here's the short version on why duathlons aren't more popular: They're fucking lame. Yeah, I said it, though I know a few partisans will get butthurt and try to defend it. Sure, there are a few super fast dudes doing them, but only because they can't swim for shit or they'd rather be dominating bad-ass triathletes if they could.

For a less snarky version, here's what I said the first time someone asked why they weren't more popular, if you'll excuse the obnoxiousness of quoting myself from the same thread (but in my defense someone else asked the exact same question yet again later in the thread):

OneGoodLeg wrote:
Daniel Clarke wrote:
Broken Leg Guy wrote:
arby wrote:
My most recent "triathlon" conversation was last weekend with a young lady at Starbucks. She thought it was great that I raced triathlon and said she would really love to do one "if not for the swim". I agree, I think the swimming portion of the event is the limiter.


Due to this fact, I'm always amazed Duathlons aren't more popular.


X2.

I would say that the cost of triathlon, and especially the bike, is definitely a limited. It's so much less expensive to be a runner. You only need your shoes to get in a workout, even expensive races like Boston are far cheaper than WTC events, and then you don't have all the bike associated expenses (bike, tubes, tires, chains, clothing, tune-ups, etc).



I'd say that paradoxically, this is precisely WHY duathlons aren't more popular; they're simply too pedestrian (literally and figuratively), and thus fail to capture the imagination to an approximate degree as incorporating another discipline that is more unlike the other 2.


And here's another variation on essentially the same premise:

Sidney Porter wrote:
I an going to put an opposite spin the bike and the swim are the main reason triathlons are popular.

Running has lots of options. There races every weekend

The cycling is a lot less intimidating compared to road, mtb and cyclocross racing. There are master swimming meets and some open water races but those limited in a lot of areas.

If you want to race and you main interest is swimming or cycling triathlon is the most accessible option.


How many other posts have there been here saying people still bike & run and do biking or running events, and yet few or no duathlons? Add a swim and you have an 'Event'; without it, it's just biking & running, meh...

Wow just wow

What is so cool about our sport is all the different variations there are!!!!!!!
Whatever gets someone off their butts to exercise, I could care less what it is. It is all good!! NO reason to say one is "better" than the other!!!

Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

Boom Nutrition code 19F4Y3 $5 off 24 pack box | Bionic Runner | PowerCranks | Velotron | Spruzzamist

Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep
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Re: Did the Triathlon bike kill triathlon? [h2ofun] [ In reply to ]
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I disagree.

Triathlon has 3 kinds of fun.
Duathlon has 2 kinds of fun.

Elementary school maths taught you that 3>2. Therefore, triathlon is better by at least 33.3%. Why do you hate logic?






Take a short break from ST and read my blog:
http://tri-banter.blogspot.com/
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Re: Did the Triathlon bike kill triathlon? [Tri-Banter] [ In reply to ]
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Except that triathlon is better by 50% using that logic...
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Re: Did the Triathlon bike kill triathlon? [cmscat50] [ In reply to ]
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I was just thinking on my run (Yay, we made it to Memorial Day weekend!) that maybe Hokas will kill triathlon if they develop a shoe that greatly reduce overuse injuries. If I could fulfill my exercise needs solely by running, I'd likely consider dropping tris for the various reasons stated in this thread.

I bought a pair of early Hoka Mafates on special a year or so ago but they're so bulky I've only worn them a couple of times, so I haven't tested whether Hoka has developed such a shoe.
Last edited by: Mark Lemmon: May 28, 16 12:02
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Re: Did the Triathlon bike kill triathlon? [Mark Lemmon] [ In reply to ]
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Mark Lemmon wrote:
I was just thinking on my run (Yay, we made it to Memorial Day weekend!) that maybe Hokas will kill triathlon if they develop a shoe that greatly reduce overuse injuries. If I could fulfill my exercise needs solely by running, I'd likely consider dropping tris for the various reasons stated in this thread.

I bought a pair of early Hoka Mafates on special a year or so ago but they're so bulky I've only worn them a couple of times, so I haven't tested whether Hoka has developed such a shoe.

overuse? if anything most triathletes under train the run.
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Re: Did the Triathlon bike kill triathlon? [cmscat50] [ In reply to ]
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I think it has turned people away from the competitive side. People enjoy triathlons for the challenge of finishing it. The cycling scene, running scene and swim scene will always dominate the competitive side because it is much cheaper to get involved. I think for the sport to grow there needs to be more emphasis on longer distances, like stage races, similar to ultraman.
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Re: Did the Triathlon bike kill triathlon? [h2ofun] [ In reply to ]
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h2ofun wrote:
I love short course racing. Been doing for 20 years. I can race so many more races. I see my friends more often. And for me, TeamUSA is much for fun to chase than
IMH any day. :)
+1 and +1 and +1 and ... ...

no sponsors | no races | nothing to see here
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Re: Did the Triathlon bike kill triathlon? [karlh] [ In reply to ]
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karlh wrote:
I think it has turned people away from the competitive side. People enjoy triathlons for the challenge of finishing it. The cycling scene, running scene and swim scene will always dominate the competitive side because it is much cheaper to get involved. I think for the sport to grow there needs to be more emphasis on longer distances, like stage races, similar to ultraman.

How would events more similar to ultraman increase participation and exposure of the sport? Are you thinking at the elite level like the Tour de France, or the participation level?
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Re: Did the Triathlon bike kill triathlon? [karlh] [ In reply to ]
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karlh wrote:
I think it has turned people away from the competitive side. People enjoy triathlons for the challenge of finishing it. The cycling scene, running scene and swim scene will always dominate the competitive side because it is much cheaper to get involved. I think for the sport to grow there needs to be more emphasis on longer distances, like stage races, similar to ultraman.

I see just the opposite. Folks are burned out on long stuff. Make the shorter stuff fun

Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

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Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep
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Re: Did the Triathlon bike kill triathlon? [synthetic] [ In reply to ]
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synthetic wrote:
Mark Lemmon wrote:
I was just thinking on my run (Yay, we made it to Memorial Day weekend!) that maybe Hokas will kill triathlon if they develop a shoe that greatly reduce overuse injuries. If I could fulfill my exercise needs solely by running, I'd likely consider dropping tris for the various reasons stated in this thread.

I bought a pair of early Hoka Mafates on special a year or so ago but they're so bulky I've only worn them a couple of times, so I haven't tested whether Hoka has developed such a shoe.


overuse? if anything most triathletes under train the run.


You didn't get my point. If I could run 10+ hours a week consistently at age 57 instead of train 10+ hours a week split between SB & R I'd considered dropping the S & B.
Last edited by: Mark Lemmon: May 28, 16 18:39
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Re: Did the Triathlon bike kill triathlon? [Mark Lemmon] [ In reply to ]
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Mark Lemmon wrote:
I was just thinking on my run (Yay, we made it to Memorial Day weekend!) that maybe Hokas will kill triathlon if they develop a shoe that greatly reduce overuse injuries. If I could fulfill my exercise needs solely by running, I'd likely consider dropping tris for the various reasons stated in this thread.

I bought a pair of early Hoka Mafates on special a year or so ago but they're so bulky I've only worn them a couple of times, so I haven't tested whether Hoka has developed such a shoe.

Are they capturing that high of a market share? I loved my first two pair of Bondi Bs, but I've since bought 4 pair of Hokas that I haven't been able to put more than 30 miles on because of the way they fit. That's about $600 down the drain in shoes with nothing to show for it. I'm not convinced they've found the right formula to be that transformative.



-Andrew
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Re: Did the Triathlon bike kill triathlon? [Mark Lemmon] [ In reply to ]
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Mark Lemmon wrote:
synthetic wrote:
Mark Lemmon wrote:
I was just thinking on my run (Yay, we made it to Memorial Day weekend!) that maybe Hokas will kill triathlon if they develop a shoe that greatly reduce overuse injuries. If I could fulfill my exercise needs solely by running, I'd likely consider dropping tris for the various reasons stated in this thread.

I bought a pair of early Hoka Mafates on special a year or so ago but they're so bulky I've only worn them a couple of times, so I haven't tested whether Hoka has developed such a shoe.


overuse? if anything most triathletes under train the run.


You didn't get my point. If I could run 10+ hours a week consistently at age 57 instead of train 10+ hours a week split between SB & R I'd considered dropping the S & B.

I would not since the odds say this level of running would not last for long.

Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

Boom Nutrition code 19F4Y3 $5 off 24 pack box | Bionic Runner | PowerCranks | Velotron | Spruzzamist

Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep
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Re: Did the Triathlon bike kill triathlon? [h2ofun] [ In reply to ]
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I second that. And my 60-year-old heel hurts.
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Re: Did the Triathlon bike kill triathlon? [Mark Lemmon] [ In reply to ]
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to me the standard run-bike-run duathlon always seems trying to make up for not having a swim. if you're going to have a 2 discipline event then make it 2 legs - bike-run and i'll be all in for that (i'm a crap swimmer). but the run at each end just seems wrong (and it hurts so much).


the complexity of triathlon's 3 disciplines is both what makes it an inspiring challenge for people at all levels and also what puts others off participating and makes it a nightmare to organise events. it does mean that you can get through a lot more training (aka fun past time) with low injury risk than in a single discipline, particularly running. i can thus see that hokas could lead people to focus on running and target marathons rather than split training


i got into tri as a way to combine my cycling and running strength given that appealing duathlon formats are rare. it also has the side benefit of developing a bit of upper body muscle so i'm more balanced than the weed i used to be. i personally like half-iron distance as a maximum and feel the full ironman distance leads anything less to be percieved as lesser. i've had people say i must be aiming to build up to a full as if its an inevitable consequence of getting into tri and if you haven't done an IM you're not a real triathlete. personally i can't see the attraction of struggling through (optimistically) 10 hours of pain, i'd rather feel like i'm actually racing (at least trying to go fast, hopefully place well, rather than just trying to get to the finish still upright). each to their own but i wonder if people aren't put off tri feeling that there's no way they can do the perceived "real" triathlon so why bother.


combine that with the theory debated elsewhere on ST that IM has lead to the demise of the shorter distance local races that feed the sport and maybe the supposed pinnacle of the sport is actually what killed triathlon (if indeed it is dead/dieing)
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