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Re: Might Be Old News, But: ERO Sports Insights on Aerobar Angle. [LuisDF] [ In reply to ]
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What's really surprising to me is the lack of round bottles on both TT bikes. Maybe the pros are getting smarter...

Damon Rinard
Engineering Manager,
CSG Road Engineering Department
Cannondale & GT Bicycles
(ex-Cervelo, ex-Trek, ex-Velomax, ex-Kestrel)
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Re: Might Be Old News, But: ERO Sports Insights on Aerobar Angle. [damon_rinard] [ In reply to ]
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it was a 20min TT; water is overrated ha!

The entire event (IM) is like "death by 1000 cuts" and the best race is minimizing all those cuts and losing less blood than the other guy. - Dev
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Re: Might Be Old News, But: ERO Sports Insights on Aerobar Angle. [LuisDF] [ In reply to ]
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he just beat tony martin and his new position with his classic position!

Doesn't Cancellara look unusually ripped for early season? Think he might be hungry for some wins this year.

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Re: Might Be Old News, But: ERO Sports Insights on Aerobar Angle. [jstonebarger] [ In reply to ]
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Impressive that Cancellara manages to get so stretched out with that arm/shoulder position. That would wear me out. On the other hand, even with angled-up arms Martin doesn't seem to stretch out at all, or does he always have a more rounded back?

What do you mean by "stretch out"? Both of these guys are tall enough that they are probably at the UCI limit for reach. Martin has always had a rounded back (last few years anyway) but he gets his shoulders very narrow.

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Re: Might Be Old News, But: ERO Sports Insights on Aerobar Angle. [rruff] [ In reply to ]
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YES

I noticed the same thing!

The entire event (IM) is like "death by 1000 cuts" and the best race is minimizing all those cuts and losing less blood than the other guy. - Dev
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Re: Might Be Old News, But: ERO Sports Insights on Aerobar Angle. [LuisDF] [ In reply to ]
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Does anyone know what risers and extensions TM is using on his Shiv? It is hard to tell in the picture but the risers do not look like the stock Shiv risers. The arm rests look like the D2Z custom arm rests. The extensions look very interesting. A short flat section where they bolt to the risers. Then the sharp angled longer section. Then the final short section at the top that kind of spill forward for hand position. It also looks like the arm rests have been moved forward a couple of inches and are bolted to the angled section of the extensions instead of directly over the risers. The setup solves all of the problems discussed in this thread.
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Re: Might Be Old News, But: ERO Sports Insights on Aerobar Angle. [rruff] [ In reply to ]
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rruff wrote:
Impressive that Cancellara manages to get so stretched out with that arm/shoulder position. That would wear me out. On the other hand, even with angled-up arms Martin doesn't seem to stretch out at all, or does he always have a more rounded back?

What do you mean by "stretch out"? Both of these guys are tall enough that they are probably at the UCI limit for reach. Martin has always had a rounded back (last few years anyway) but he gets his shoulders very narrow.


Something works for him, obviously. But at a glance Martin looks upright and crowded on that bike.

I like angled up extensions, and partly because it makes it easier to hold the position and scoot my ass back and stretch out on the bike. While to me this seems the direct result of angling my arms up, neither Cancellara's nor Martin's photo would seem to support that idea -- Cancellara doesn't seem to tire with his forearms flat and elbow and shoulders at 90*, and Martin doesn't look like he's using much of his saddle. You're right, though -- a quick search for TT photos shows that Martin usually rides with a more rounded back, even when he rode with flat extensions/forearms.

Still, in general doesn't angling the extensions up allow more reach? And isn't a flat, more stretched out torso more aero? I'm only guessing here (no wind tunnel for me), but I thought that was the consensus.
Last edited by: jstonebarger: Feb 21, 16 7:54
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Re: Might Be Old News, But: ERO Sports Insights on Aerobar Angle. [jstonebarger] [ In reply to ]
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Martin is obviously not too concerned about comfort. Else he wouldn't be putting sandpaper on his saddle that sometimes rubs through is shorts and his skin. Search online if interested.

No hard and fast rules in this unfortunately. I'm pretty sure he has spent a lot of time refining his position, and he was world TT champ a few years. And unlike Cancellara, Martin hasn't displayed a monster engine in other events. So I have to assume he has the aero down pretty well.

Here is a front view of Martin when he had his forearms angled down a little. I'd guess that his position facilitates getting very narrow, and that is how he achieves low drag.



Flat forearms are pretty standard for pros. They were restricted from raising them very much, but that rule was relaxed this year. So we should see more of them experimenting with angled forearms.
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Re: Might Be Old News, But: ERO Sports Insights on Aerobar Angle. [Orbilius] [ In reply to ]
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Orbilius wrote:
This thread, and the ERO post was really helpful. I just had a professional fit done on my (relatively new) P5-6 and wanted to try the angled arm position. We swapped out the standard extensions for Profile T4s that were inserted backwards. Using spacers, we angled the pad holders up, not quite identical in slope to the extensions, but enough that you can really feel the support you. We added reach, and moved me to a bit more slack angle than I was before. Only two rides in, but this position is incredibly comfortable. The angled arms really do allow you to lean into the bars, supporting the rest of your position and allowing for a more relaxed upper body.

Per this thread, I am ordering angled risers from Fibre Lyte. One thing I am going to add are some rubber washers between the bolt head and the armpad cup. They hit at an angle and I would like some thing there to deform and absorb a bit of the stress.




Would a BTA work with that setup? Seems like you don't have enough horizontal real estate to mount a bottle flat.
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Re: Might Be Old News, But: ERO Sports Insights on Aerobar Angle. [3Aims] [ In reply to ]
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You can get the BTA bottle horizontal with the included Aduro bottle cage mount, but depending on the length of bottle it will extent past your forearms. I think the results have been mixed on running a horizontal BTA with upturned arms. Still, I think the potential drag increase from this setup is better than a down tube bottle, or in my case a behind the saddle bottle (I sit too far forward on the saddle to have the bottle extend the area close to my rump).

I will run no bottle for shorter TTs, and will figure our a small bottle solution for 40ks - the longest distance I race.
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Re: Might Be Old News, But: ERO Sports Insights on Aerobar Angle. [Orbilius] [ In reply to ]
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Makes sense and with you doing TTs the need for hydration is less. Nice looking bike for sure.
Last edited by: 3Aims: Feb 21, 16 13:32
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Re: Might Be Old News, But: ERO Sports Insights on Aerobar Angle. [rruff] [ In reply to ]
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Didn't Martin go solo( nearly) for an entire stage of the TDF in 2014(?) for the win He's got quite the engine
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Re: Might Be Old News, But: ERO Sports Insights on Aerobar Angle. [csontag] [ In reply to ]
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He has good W/CdA even on the road bike. But that isn't unusual, considering.

Winning a stage in the Tour is nothing like riding away from the field in major 1 day races, which Cancellara has done several times.
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Re: Might Be Old News, But: ERO Sports Insights on Aerobar Angle. [DFW_Tri] [ In reply to ]
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Did the angle mount myself this morning with a hand file. Marked out what I thought would be close to 10 degrees but wanted to leave a little there for trial. I just added an angle find app to my phone and it appears that it worked out to 8 degrees. I can tweak it a bit if I want. Took 5 minutes to complete this and it works perfect.


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Re: Might Be Old News, But: ERO Sports Insights on Aerobar Angle. [BMANX] [ In reply to ]
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Nice job.

8 degrees is what I settled on with my fitter. Extensions are angled up more.
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Re: Might Be Old News, But: ERO Sports Insights on Aerobar Angle. [BMANX] [ In reply to ]
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Hi BMANX, quick question(s) on this if you don't mind

1) Is the riser you grinded aluminum or carbon?
2) Did you just mark where 10 degrees would be on the side of the riser and then filed down one end to that point?
3) Do you think this affects the integrity of the bolts that keep the risers in place now that it is at an angle? My bolts are inserted on the underside of the bar, into the risers, and I can't wrap my head around how this would work if the bottom of the riser is not perpendicular to the bar.

Thanks!


BMANX wrote:
Did the angle mount myself this morning with a hand file. Marked out what I thought would be close to 10 degrees but wanted to leave a little there for trial. I just added an angle find app to my phone and it appears that it worked out to 8 degrees. I can tweak it a bit if I want. Took 5 minutes to complete this and it works perfect.


Strava
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