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Crit racing tips needed
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I'm popping my crit cherry this weekend. No idea what I'm doing.... It's 20 x 1km loops and there are 5 grades, A - E, with E being the slowest. I think noobs have to start in E or D for their first race. Do I just start at the back, wait for someone to make a move and then go with them? At what stage do people normally make a break, only towards the end or it can be whenever? Are they normally close to flat out the whole way with the faster guys trying to wear out the slower guys?


The track:



Last edited by: zedzded: Feb 7, 18 18:57
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Re: Crit racing tips needed [zedzded] [ In reply to ]
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I am very curious to read the responses. I raced criteriums 30 years ago. My formal rule of thumb was never be further back than the top 25%. Otherwise your risk of crash goes up exponentially, and you are working very hard with the constant accelerations to stay with the pack. When you ride closer to the front, you generally ride a lot smoother

Edit: Watched the video. Those little merge curbs in the round about turns are gonna suck. Those cut the width of the road in half. "Hold your line!"
Last edited by: exxxviii: Feb 7, 18 18:32
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Re: Crit racing tips needed [zedzded] [ In reply to ]
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There's no perfect answer to those questions. How a crit plays out depends on many factors, including the size of the field, what tactics the strongest riders choose to employ, and what team dynamics are going on.

Some races are flat out, some are surgy, some are slowish if no team or group of individuals is "controlling the race." Some are won at the start. Many end in field sprints. And there's a whole range of things in between.

If you're talking cherry-popping, I'm going to guess Cat 5 type stuff. So I can give my Cat 5 type advice (downloading all crit knowledge would be book, and I'm not even close to a master tactician).

1) Stay in the top 1/4. It's safer in Cat 5.

2) It's OK to be at the front and "pull" if you find yourself in front, but only do so for a few seconds, and then rotate off. Don't make any "hero pulls". Don't think you're doing to tire anyone out. Just pull through and let yourself rotate back 5-10 spots until you find a good place to chill.

3) Your course sounds a little selective with 5 grades. Being near the front lets you make those selections easier. Crit dreams often end when a split occurs 10 guys in front of you, and by the time you get past the 10, you have no chance of bridging.

4) The first few break attempts usually (but not always) fail.

5) If you know who some super strong guys in the field are, stay near them, and watch them.

6) Watch for smooth, confident people, and be near them. Watch for nervous, uncertain people and stay away from them.

7) If you want to move up, don't move up in a hero move up the side. Be crafty. Follow other people up or work your way up the middle.

8) Know who you are. A typical problem in Cat 5 is everyone thinks they can win.

9) Don't chase down every break, if you miss the break. In crits, you have to be willing to lose sometimes in order to win.

10) If you think you missed The Break, try to jump across to it without dragging the entire field with you (this is hard to do).

11) If you're in The Break, do a little work to help the break succeed, but don't be the Break Hero, the guy driving the break.


I could go on with like another 80 tips, but will stop there.

Remember, if you get through the first crit in one piece and a pack finish you did really well.

Edit: One of my favorite pieces on race tactics is this bit on "narrowing the odds".
Last edited by: trail: Feb 7, 18 18:57
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Re: Crit racing tips needed [trail] [ In reply to ]
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Awesome thanks Trail!
I'll be reading that a few times over! I'm guessing the ability will vary. Any noobs have to start in either grade E or D (not sure which), but grades E and D race together anyway along with U15. So there will be a few regulars I guess who are D/E grade ability and then a few of my mates doing it who are decent triathlete bikers 2.15 - 2.25/70.3. So it will be a mixed bag. I guess if a break goes early, let them go and hold on for a later break?
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Re: Crit racing tips needed [zedzded] [ In reply to ]
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When I raced my first crit I started near the back because I had no idea what I was doing and did not want to cause a crash. If you've done road racing (stage racing) before then you have an idea of what to expect riding fast in a pack right up close to someone's wheel. But if you want to compete you need to be somewhere near the front third of the pack.

Also, do you know what grade you are allowed to ride with? Here in U.S. we have Category classes which I'm guessing is similar to grades. Grade A men I would guess is like Cat1 which are the really fast and experienced. If you're new you'll either have to be in beginner grade (coached) or Grade D or E.

Also, each grade will typically ride for a set time, not necessarily a number of laps. So grade A guys will ride 50 minutes but grade E guys for 20 minutes etc. They might have a lap counter by the start/finish line and after you make the first or second lap they will announce the number of laps based on how fast you are moving etc.

Crits can be punchy with a lot of surges/attacks. If you're a strong rider you might feel good after a few laps and feel like attacking but you may be surprised on how easily the group is right on your wheel.

The most common "mistakes" beginners make in crits is hitting the brakes on the turns and making sudden movements left and right. So my advice, hold your line and try not to brake on the turns. The bad part about being in the back in a beginners or lower grade race is all the guys that will be breaking on the turns. Then you get separated from the lead group and it becomes a time trial of sorts trying to get back.

But it's fun.

Good luck.
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Re: Crit racing tips needed [zedzded] [ In reply to ]
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My tip for the first crit is to be safe. Learn to be comfortable with your elbows rubbing the guys around you, be comfortable not braking into the turns, learn to accelerate by speeding up your cadence rather than shifting. Watch how the pack moves and try to anticipate when breaks will happen.

It took me a few crits just to get my breathing / HR down in a giant pack going 30mph

All trails tips are good ones

Crits are so much fun, exhilarating. Until you see someone crash next to you and get up bloody.. and you remember that no matter what, you’re better to be safe than win. You’re better to let someone in front of you, than crash out and set your training back weeks / months.

Also, I found most crits don’t feel like a great triathlete workout. I got annoyed with that actually. average power was pretty low and races are pretty short. I actually tried to race harder than needed to get a better workout for awhile. Then I figured it out, goal of a crit is to ride with as low of power possible for as long as possible, then go max effort when it counts. Sometimes “when it counts” is just a couple mins, mostly it’s less than that.

After a race or two - lemme know if that makes sense :)
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Re: Crit racing tips needed [zedzded] [ In reply to ]
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Go fast, turn often.

Holja line!

Stay as close to other people as possible to maximize the draft.

Stay as far away from other people as possible so they don’t crash you out.

There will be no break. If it’s windy or hilly there may be a selection, but no break.

Seriously though, there is so much to learn about crit racing that can’t be taught on the internet.
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Re: Crit racing tips needed [Karl.n] [ In reply to ]
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Karl.n wrote:

Seriously though, there is so much to learn about crit racing that can’t be taught on the internet.

True, but some of the advice in here is invaluable!
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Re: Crit racing tips needed [zedzded] [ In reply to ]
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If you know the strong cyclists, watch them. If not, watch and listen for them. Stay near the front. Figure out if you can go with a break. How many reals can you go with?
Learn as much as you can as the race progresses. Realize that it is usually a sprinter race. Can you follow the strong teams?
Crits are incredibly hard and painful, but one of the most thrilling thing you can experience.

Team Zoot So Cal
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Re: Crit racing tips needed [zedzded] [ In reply to ]
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A lot of the other comments are very helpful. When you are a beginning racer in a crit, the most important thing is to be safe and learn. Try to stay in the front 1/4 of the race. Not only is it safer, but you will have less fluctuation in your power output, which means you will be fresher at the end. You will also be able to actually participate in moves or attack if you want whereas this doesn't work so well when you try to come from 40 back in the field.

Lastly, if you want to do well, the key (to all bike racing IMO) is to be as lazy as you can possibly be till the right moment comes to really use everything you've got. However, there is nothing wrong with going balls out in suicide moves. It's fun and helps you learn.

Have fun!
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Re: Crit racing tips needed [zedzded] [ In reply to ]
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Couple of tips:
1.) Be prepared to go fast right from the start.
2.) Be prepared to do a VO2max interval everytime there is a sharp turn or hill if you are on the back because everything will string out and you'll have to go very fast after the turn to make up the distance lost to the front of the field. The back is tough if you are not a very strong rider because of this. That's why everyone tries to stay near the front.
3.) To take turns fast, a crit field will take a turn wide going into it, cut the apex and then go back out wide. Don't be the rider that tries to cut into the space the pack leaves just before the turn and then hits other riders as they come through the apex of the turn.
4.) Try not to make sudden movements and try not to slam on your brakes. Both of those are great ways to get in a crash.
5.) Get used to pedaling through less aggressive turns and be pepared for occasional pedal strikes.
6.) Most importantly, don't race any equipment you can't afford to replace, because crits have lots of crashes in them.
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Re: Crit racing tips needed [nightfend] [ In reply to ]
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I was a Cat2 about a decade ago. Ride at the front. Never touch your brakes in a corner, ever. You don’t have to be in every move. You can get really fit really fast riding at the back, you will essentially be sprinting out of every corner. You can also get caught up in a lot of nonsense at the back of the field. I loved to try & create breaks & make them stick. Rarely works but is a lot of fun being hunted by a large pack of riders.
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Re: Crit racing tips needed [zedzded] [ In reply to ]
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1) make a plan
2) throw out that plan in the first 60 seconds
3) hang on and have fun
4) if you are not confident, stay the fuck out of the sprint
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Re: Crit racing tips needed [zedzded] [ In reply to ]
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Be dubious about anyone who yells hold your line, they are probably the person who is not
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Re: Crit racing tips needed [zedzded] [ In reply to ]
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There is no 1 strategy that’ll work for you. Race LOTS of them thats the only way to learn. Back in the UK I prob raced 2-3 /week on average from the age of 13 until I was 20, we were brought up on them from May til Sept.

Theres already some good advice in this thread, I’ll throw in - don’t stand up to sprint outta the corners...until you’re out of the corner....ten meters too soon & she’s up in the air and its game over for you or someone behind you.

SB.

http://www.sweat7.com
Facebook Page: Sweat7
Twitter: @sweat7coaching
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Re: Crit racing tips needed [exxxviii] [ In reply to ]
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Corners. Don't use the brake. And start accelerating too late you will get dropped. I've had this happen, got dropped within 15 minutes because i was on the rubber band each corner. I got lapped and then started focusing on taking the the corners better. When I got that right, I could quite easily manage to stay in the pack.
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Re: Crit racing tips needed [zedzded] [ In reply to ]
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my opinion for a first timer in a crit. (already some good advice btw)

Stay in the pack, somewhere near the front / middle. Not for a tactical reason, but so you can get some experience riding in a crit pack.

In our local crit series I see a lot of guys coming from triathlon do 1 of 3 things...
either they are much fitter than the other "beginners" and they ride away with a couple of people, basically tt'ing off the front
or they are timid, ride at the very back, and basically yo-yo off the tail by themselves the whole crit
or they go up front, do a massive pull for a few laps, then drop out.

none of these teach you how to race a crit. Riding shoulder to shoulder with the guy beside you in a fast as shit turn where you hear tyres skidding and your butthole puckers up, that teaches you how to crit race.

IMO of course, and I'm not crit master.

My Blog - http://leegoocrap.blogspot.com
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Re: Crit racing tips needed [Morelock] [ In reply to ]
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Are there intermediate sprints in crits in the US?
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Re: Crit racing tips needed [BergHugi] [ In reply to ]
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We have prime laps, yeah.

My Blog - http://leegoocrap.blogspot.com
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Re: Crit racing tips needed [Morelock] [ In reply to ]
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Prime laps? - to sprint for money or for points in order to win the race?

Here in Germany crits are like points races on the track, every couple of laps there is an intermediate sprint and one can get 5, 3, 2, or 1 points. Last sprint counts double. Lapping the field counts stronger than the points. In addition there may be prize sprints for money or sometimes even for beer (the sponsor of the local crit is a brewery) but will not count for the race result.

Anyway, intermediate sprints may alter the tactics considerably.
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Re: Crit racing tips needed [BergHugi] [ In reply to ]
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ahh gotcha,

I've only ever done points race style races "on the boards." Most US crits (that I'm aware of at least) are just normal first over the line setup. Prime laps for $$$/beer/prizes, but not points.

Points races on the road would be more enjoyable (imo)

My Blog - http://leegoocrap.blogspot.com
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Re: Crit racing tips needed [Morelock] [ In reply to ]
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Take off the aerobars....
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Re: Crit racing tips needed [zedzded] [ In reply to ]
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As others have said, you can get nuggets of wisdom, but the only way to learn to ride crits is to do it and make a bunch of mistakes and learn from them.

Big things:
- Don't touch your brakes in the corners, if you need to modulate your speed, do it before hand... if you brake while cornering it pooches your handling and you are more likely to donate epidermis to asphalt...
- When in doubt, know your way out. Expect others to do stupid things, have an escape route... this is both useful in terms of avoiding crashes, but also eventually if you need to move up in the pack or want to launch an attack, you need a route to breathing space...
- Be predictable with your handling... this goes without saying...
- RELAX. 99% of trouble you get into in a bike race can be resolve by staying relaxed. When shit starts to go sideways, if you relax, you can often save it, but the gut reaction is to tense up, which never goes well... (the number of near misses that I have had that stayed misses just by staying relaxed could fill pages...)
- The first 5 laps are almost always balls to the wall (especially in lower categories, where they try to catch out a bunch of the squirrels and drop them before they can do damage...), but the pace will settle.
- Find an experienced rider who moves well in the pack and shadow them... one of the best ways to learn.
- Have fun, there's a certain zen that comes with the feeling of having a heart attack that you experience for the 45min or so of a crit...
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Re: Crit racing tips needed [Trauma] [ In reply to ]
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If you start in the back and stay in the back you will be off the back. It is so hard riding in the back of a crit. In the corners and there are a bunch of them the leaders are on full gas out of it and you are still slowing down for a corner. Repeat that a hundred times and the rubber band snaps and you are now riding a very curvy time trial. That said, if and when you get dropped with a couple kindred spirits you can still get around the course pretty quick and learn how to get thru those corners in a smaller group.
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Re: Crit racing tips needed [zedzded] [ In reply to ]
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zedzded wrote:
I'm popping my crit cherry this weekend. No idea what I'm doing.... It's 20 x 1km loops and there are 5 grades, A - E, with E being the slowest. I think noobs have to start in E or D for their first race. Do I just start at the back, wait for someone to make a move and then go with them? At what stage do people normally make a break, only towards

[/url]-Don’t overlap the wheels.
-Avoid passing people in corners on the inside, until you learn how to do it safely.
-Hold your line in the corners aka “don’t bomb the corner” until you learn how to do it safely.
-Don’t “fight” for position on lap 5, it does not matter where you are on lap 5
-Don't pour water on your head like in TdF, it is crit not 2 hours climb, don't spit (first learn how to), someone might get it on their face.
-Don’t be a d!*( let people in when it does not matter, you might make few friends who will let you in when it matters.
-Does not matter where you start, front\back who cares…, if you can’t move from the back to the front you will most likely drop from the front in no time.
-Learn to feel the flow of the race keep your HR low and breathe.
-Know who matters in the race, there are a lot of people that will sprint for fun, but they do not matter, let them go they will die in no time.
-Crit is all about skills, if you don’t have them it is all about anaerobic abilities, most triathletes luck both.
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Re: Crit racing tips needed [sebo2000] [ In reply to ]
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sebo2000 wrote:
-Don’t “fight” for position on lap 5, it does not matter where you are on lap 5

Why not?
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Re: Crit racing tips needed [zedzded] [ In reply to ]
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Nothing is black and white or 100% but just a couple ideas to think about. Most of these are more applicable to being solo in a race with no team mates or with team mates who have no idea how to race:


-Using energy and momentum in corners by staying on the outside is a good way to move up.

-Don't be the first to attack, or the second...follow moves but, try not to get excited and put your nose into the wind early. Let others burn matches.

-If you have to close a gap close it quick. Don't be the guy that pulls the rest of the field. If you work everyone works is the idea.

-If you want to try an attack do it just after the previous one was caught and the pace is still hard. Come from a number of places back and use momentum to sling you out from the group. It's easy to go to hard and find yourself solo which may be good or bad depending on your fitness and the rest of the group dynamics. But, generally it's nice to make a break with a couple guys to share the load.

-Many flat crits if not much wind or super small fields come down to a sprint. So focus on sprinting in training...

-Usually there is a lap board with say 5 to go. As the laps dwindle the pace will usually get higher so staying close to the front conserves energy (in general) and keeps you out of trouble (in general). Honestly, at this point guys are so worried about conserving energy and staying in the draft they will do anything to suck wheel. Sometimes it takes energy to save energy so if your in the wind to stay up front momentarily I think that's ok. Also, this is a super ballsy time to try a break. How's your VO2 power?

-Visualize where you want to be in the last lap/last corner/start of your sprint. Knowing approximately how long you can sprint is key. 15 seconds? 30? How far does that work out to be on the course? Find a landmark and use it to help time the sprint (perfect world). Usually the sprint is very messy and you have to adapt...it's fun.

-Finally, anticipate the surge and start your sprint before it even if it set you up for a long one.
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Re: Crit racing tips needed [trail] [ In reply to ]
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trail wrote:
sebo2000 wrote:

-Don’t “fight” for position on lap 5, it does not matter where you are on lap 5


Why not?

+2. 5 to go is when the race is on. Fight or lose.
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Re: Crit racing tips needed [stevie g] [ In reply to ]
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"Be dubious about anyone who yells hold your line, they are probably the person who is not"

Heh...I remember in cat 5/4 races, everyone thinks they are a pro and everyone was yelling at everyone else who clearly was an idiot. In masters races, it was eerily quiet other than the sounds of the rubber on the road.

If someone comes past you don't jump on their wheel without checking if someone is already there.

Don't watch the wheel right in front of you, watch the guys in front of them.

At the finish, don't sprint for 30th place.


To the OP, make sure you do a race report and post it here. Probably the most useful info for new racers is to hear the experience of someone else doing their first race.
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Re: Crit racing tips needed [stevie g] [ In reply to ]
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stevie g wrote:
Be dubious about anyone who yells hold your line, they are probably the person who is not

Sort of. They are usually the one who refuses to adjust their position according to others movements and are likely to get their wheel chopped.
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Re: Crit racing tips needed [zedzded] [ In reply to ]
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If you don't have any road racing experience, just try and finish with the bunch. watch out for stupid people, ride safe and observe how the race dynamics play out. Prepare to suffer.

If you have road racing experience, stay near the front and cover the attacks you think might stick.

Pactimo brand ambassador, ask me about promo codes
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Re: Crit racing tips needed [MTBSully] [ In reply to ]
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Have you recently done any really hard interval training? Like 30s to 1min at 200%+ repeatedly?

I'd also recommend making yourself a safe custom segment in Strava in a neighborhood of about a Crit course style/length and doing some crap hard workouts on it.

How's your sprint? Can you pop out a 1000w+ sprint after a tough training ride? Like the taste of what you ate for lunch?
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Re: Crit racing tips needed [trail] [ In reply to ]
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Tons of great info in here!

I am not sure if it has been said but really try not to ride your "nice" gear or bike. I see guys trash big dollar bikes and gear all the time and cant fork out the cash to replace it. I raced a lot when I was younger and had a dedicated Steel bike that has a lot of battle scars on it now! Your $10,000 bike wont really be much faster than a fairly light $2000 aluminum or steel bike

Try to stay in the first 1/4 of the group and stay in the center if possible - make sure to go and practice wide fast sweeping corners and get use to that feeling. It is also important that you "flow" well with the peloton, everyone has a different riding style and you are going to constantly be battling for placement and position. Be sure to keep your confidence high and not get discouraged, I generally didn't bother with the breakaways until they started happening around the last half of the race.

Remember its for fun - don't wad it up!
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Re: Crit racing tips needed [G-man] [ In reply to ]
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Fair point, the elastic effect is something to keep in mind...

The rule I always followed was that if you are not moving forward, you are moving backward in the pack... If you are using the race for training, tail gunning is a great way to get a workout. I find when I race training crits, if they get too sketchy from people doing stupid stuff at the front, I'll sit on the back, and toe dropped riders back up, and get a good interval session, without the risk of the chaos upfront...
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Re: Crit racing tips needed [MTBSully] [ In reply to ]
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FINALLY a topic i can actually add value to; Cat1/2 crit racer checking in.

None of these are secrets but its amazing how much people forget and dont do:
- warm up properly and be ready to go from the gun, this isn't a 160km road ride and its not going to have neutral laps to get the pedals turning
- LINE UP ON THE FRONT LINE. if this means getting to the start 5min earlier than you think is necessary fine. you warmed up properly remember. being first off the line avoids so many issues. you dont have to worry about people failing to clip in, you have clear road, and you'll be in the top 10-12 riders for the first lap just because of your initial position. This helps you get a feel for the tempo and pace and you won't be starting off on your back foot so to speak
- POSITION MATTERS. if this is cat5 people are going to attack too often and too much. it's not your job to chase, but you do need to be able to see the surge coming. It's amazing how much more efficiently you can ride when you can see the attack go, you can select the right gear, and you can gently wind up the power to match the surge, rather than having to do an explosive sprint just to catch the wheel.
- STAY OFF THE FRONT. It's cat5....let some other idiot take a pull. They'll be more than happy to do it
- Leave a small gap as you enter a turn. Slow in fast out. No need to be inches from the wheel in front of you heading into the turn. If your position is good you can let the wheel go ever so slightly, not enough to let anyone in, but enough that you dont have to jam on the pedals coming out of the turn and sprint out of each turn. This saves energy, again removes a lot of the accordian, and as you then brake less through the turn you carry more speed out and right back into the slipstream.
- You are responsible for your front wheel. You overlap it on someone else and they move, that's on you. Make sure you keep your front wheel clean and avoid going down
- Make yourself big. Elbows out, knees out. These give you space to move. They also keep people away from you and from taking the wheel you are following. Don't be afraid to make your presence felt if someone is encroaching. You would be amazed how many people just give up wheels because is move against them.
- Don't move up when everyone is sprinting. Make it easy on yourself to move up, do it when the least amount of effort is required. If there is a lull (and there will be lots in cat5) move up. If there is a surge and it dies, pedal through. 3 seconds of extra work can effortlessly move you up 20 spots because others decided to stop working.
- know what the start finish looks like and make sure you know your markers. If you're a sprinter you'll be doing this multiple times pre-race. Know where 200m and 100m to go is. Find the tree, the billboard, the line on the road. Know where those are so you dont go too early.
- You dont have a 400m sprint. You dont have a 300m sprint. You likely dont even have a 150m sprint. Check your ego and be patient. He who goes early loses.
- BE PATIENT. The race isn't won on lap 5 but it can be lost on lap 5. Your goal is to finish as high up as possible and do the least amount of work as possible to get there. Even waiting 1 extra second when a gap forms and allowing someone else to close it is so much easier than doing it yourself.
- Hydrate. Cat5 races are only 35min-40min generally, with even cat1 being 70-80 max. You still need to drink. Take advantage of the lulls to drink, do it early, do it often. It makes a difference.

When it comes to actual tactics, break vs. bunch sprint, you need to know what kind of rider you are.
If you dont have a sprint but you've got a big engine, you need to make other people work. This means attacking. Let others do it early on, let them wind the group up, and as they bring them back and the group lulls, YOU GO. You go when no one else wants to. This is going to fail more than once most likely. But you attack after other attack and eventually they will let you go. Someone won't want to chase, someone will leave a gap, someone wont want to close it, away you go. Get ready to settle in to a very uncomfortable spot. The best attacks I have seen happen about mid-way to 3/4 through the race. This is when the will to chase starts to break down and people start getting tired. If there are teams though this is going to be difficult as they will have sacrificial lambs who are solely there to control the break and chase. Cat5...everyone for themselves.

If you have a bunch sprint you want to be no further back than 8th if the final turn is 250m or less from the finish. Work backwards from there and figure out how to get into that position by then. If you need to be 8th or better by last turn you likely need to be 12th or better heading into the final lap. Which means you cant be dicking around with 2 laps to go when the pace starts to lift. Follow wheels smartly, keep your head out of the wind until your set point, go.


Crits aren't about doing one thing right, they are about doing lots of little things right. You do enough of the above correctly and more often than not you'll wind up doing better than most.
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Re: Crit racing tips needed [zedzded] [ In reply to ]
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crits are the X-games for mid life crisis masters
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Re: Crit racing tips needed [RONDAL] [ In reply to ]
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RONDAL wrote:

- STAY OFF THE FRONT.

Depends. If you're in a break and refusing to pull, that's a good way to get attacked and bounced from the break.

Even in the field, if you want to stay in the top 5-6 riders and you find the leader rider in front of you just pulled off, it's *OK* to pull through, and then over. To keep a nice flow at the front going. Sometimes nothing pisses people off more than the guy who's constantly trying to stay right at the front but refuses to pull through. If that little effort of pulling through is going to hurt you, you don't really belong in the first 5-6 riders.

In both cases I find it's better to appear to be doing a little work, without actually doing much at all.
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Re: Crit racing tips needed [zedzded] [ In reply to ]
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Lot's of good advice and some advice I'd not follow. But, everyone races differently and what works for some won't for others.

My thoughts ...

This is your first crit, you're learning to crit race. Try stuff, your end result does not matter. Attack, go for a prime, start a break, follow a break, sit in, whatever. Ultimately, have fun.

Be predictable. Don't yell.

Everyone says, "don't use your brakes" ... in reality, you're gonna have to use your brakes, so be in a position where you can access your brakes. Everyone has the best intentions of rolling through the turns at speed and brake free, but all it takes is one guy coming off his line or not pedaling through or freewheeling just a bit longer than others to completely change the speed of the group.

Be able to clip in to your pedals quickly on the first go. Happens in every race, even P12 races and it doesn't really hurt your race, just adds some anxiety for the first 30s of the race if you feel like you're already chasing.

If the course isn't technical, no need to start on the front. The race is long enough to move up. If you feel like you need to start on the front line because you don't want to fall too far back you might not have the bike skills to hold your position on the front.

Crits can be surgy, they can be slow, they can be full gas ... if you feel like you're about to get dropped, hold on a few more seconds because the pace will drop.

Enjoy it and have fun.
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Re: Crit racing tips needed [zedzded] [ In reply to ]
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Trail gave some very good advice, and others are right in that most crits are very unpredictable.

One thing I would like to point out is that while it is super important to stay near the front, such as the top 25%, you have to realize that over 50% of the field has that exact same goal. The riders who are most able to consistently stay in the top 25% are the ones who are actually willing to make their way to the front every once in a while. It is super difficult to just stay 10 wheels back for the majority of the race because as guys come off the front, if you leave gaps to let them back in front of you, that's usually when others behind you see an opportunity to move up.

So as already mentioned, if you find yourself at the front, don't be a hero. Just keep the pace steady and pull off after a few seconds. Just don't pull off right before a corner because you'll have a sub optimal line into the corner, and nobody is going to let you in as they want to take the optimal line and respond to the acceleration coming out of the corner.

As you gain more experience, you start to get a feel for where the most important parts of the course it is to be near the front. Usually in the most technical sections, or if there is a slight hill. Some courses allow you to fall back a bit and easily make your way up when you need to...and others you just have to be near the front the whole time.

Good luck and have fun.
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Re: Crit racing tips needed [RONDAL] [ In reply to ]
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RONDAL wrote:
- LINE UP ON THE FRONT LINE. if this means getting to the start 5min earlier than you think is necessary fine. you warmed up properly remember. being first off the line avoids so many issues. you dont have to worry about people failing to clip in, you have clear road, and you'll be in the top 10-12 riders for the first lap just because of your initial position. This helps you get a feel for the tempo and pace and you won't be starting off on your back foot so to speak

Good advice for someone with experience but the last thing I want in a race is a triathlete in his first race lining up on the front row and sprinting to the first corner. Learning to crit race is largely about learning to corner faster than you think you can.
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Re: Crit racing tips needed [Jason N] [ In reply to ]
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Quote:
I would like to point out is that while it is super important to stay near the front, such as the top 25%, you have to realize that over 50% of the field has that exact same goal.

Yes! While there are times where it will be like a parade and everyone with just stay in line for a while, much of the time you actually have to be constantly moving up just to stay in the same spot near the front. You can end up at the back just by not fighting for wheels, letting a guy in now and then to get a draft or losing one place every corner. Many a newbie crit racer has been thinking things were going just fine "near the front" only to turn around a few laps later to see they were in last place ;-)
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Re: Crit racing tips needed [STP] [ In reply to ]
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If you're going to the race alone, make sure there is somebody there who has your emergency contact info, any pertinent medical information, etc...

I'm surprised nobody has mentioned that. CAT5 slash beginner crits tend to have more crashes than the p12 because of the experience level..

Beyond that, as many of stated, just have fun on this first one and learn. Don't worry about winning, unless the field is so weak that you can just right away using your triathlete Fitness (that won't happen)
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Re: Crit racing tips needed [davejustdave] [ In reply to ]
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davejustdave wrote:
If you're going to the race alone, make sure there is somebody there who has your emergency contact info, any pertinent medical information, etc...

I'm surprised nobody has mentioned that
. CAT5 slash beginner crits tend to have more crashes than the p12 because of the experience level..

Beyond that, as many of stated, just have fun on this first one and learn. Don't worry about winning, unless the field is so weak that you can just right away using your triathlete Fitness (that won't happen)

Perhaps because you have to enter it to get a license (USA) and/or 1 day on waiver/release. Not sure in GBR but, assume it's common.
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Re: Crit racing tips needed [woodys737] [ In reply to ]
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woodys737 wrote:
davejustdave wrote:
If you're going to the race alone, make sure there is somebody there who has your emergency contact info, any pertinent medical information, etc...

I'm surprised nobody has mentioned that
. CAT5 slash beginner crits tend to have more crashes than the p12 because of the experience level..

Beyond that, as many of stated, just have fun on this first one and learn. Don't worry about winning, unless the field is so weak that you can just right away using your triathlete Fitness (that won't happen)

Perhaps because you have to enter it to get a license (USA) and/or 1 day on waiver/release. Not sure in GBR but, assume it's common.

Fair enough. Do you also have to do that at triathlons, but many of us have seen people scrambling looking for that information after crashes.

Redundancy never hurts when it comes to this type of stuff
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Re: Crit racing tips needed [zedzded] [ In reply to ]
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If this is your first, then your main goal should be to come out the other end with the same amount of skin and paint that you went in with. So as others said.

1. Stay toward the front both for safety and to avoid the accordion that will spit you off the back.

2. Protect your front wheel. You are going to overlap at one point or another, important thing is to not hang out in someone's blind spot. If you are not fully behind then you should be working to being right next to. Better to take a hip check than a wheel bump.

3. I like to plan my corners. That means I am either directly behind someone on a predictable line, or if I have to go in 2-4 wide that I am right next to the other guys and it is obvious which line is mine. If you are inside then stick inside, outside don't try to bomb inside at the end of the corner. No one is making money off this race so ride predictably and don't be a dick. Being a dick is a great way to get dropped or worse.

4. Effort level you should put in really depends on the race, number of riders, and course. If the race is 20 minutes long it is going to be much harder than if it was 40 minutes long. In a 20 minute race no one is afraid to burn matches cause they figure they can hold on for that long so it will start fast, be fast, and end fast. In a 40 minute race it will often start fast to get rid of the slow riders and hopefully the triathletes. Lots of surges and max power efforts for the first 10 minutes. Once the peloton has shed the undesirables it will slow for 15-20 minutes, people might try breaks but they often don't stick. Then the last 10 minutes is a ramp up to get rid of more riders or to make sure there are fewer riders in the sprint. The peloton won't go at an easy pace then sprint at the last minute of the race. Better to have the weaker riders right on the edge so when the sprint does happen they are quickly left behind.
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Re: Crit racing tips needed [ctflower] [ In reply to ]
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Quick clip in is key, or front row start. I have had a crit that was literally over in the first 10seconds because I had a 4th row start and the few guys around me in front of me struggle to clip in, so we were way down from the gun (on a narrow and technical course)... In that case it was a stage race, so the goal became not getting lapped until the cut off point to be able to start the last stage...

As for the part about being in a break... Yes, you should contribute in a break (if someone in cat 5 is "saving their legs for the sprint" while the rest of the break rotates they should honestly be put in the ditch... unless it's a team game, and they have 3 guys in the break, two doing monster work, while the other sits in...). But to be honest, in cat 5, you shouldn't be breaking away until the last 1/3 of the race... because the odds of success are so low... If you actually are entertaining the idea of a result, I would let others flex their muscles and then either wait for the bunch sprint, or if you know that's not good for you, trying a late break...

The key to any road racing, crit or otherwise is knowing how good you're not (moreso than knowing how good you are)... I know for me, that I am unlikely to win a bunch sprint, without a lot of other people making mistakes (I've had some podium finishes in bunch sprints in one case losing by less than an inch... but not because of my sprinting prowess... they were because someone else made a huge error which took most of the stronger sprinters out of contention in the last corner...), so for me I need to be sprinting from a select group to have a reasonable shot a result, or I am better off helping to lead out a teammate... But you learn that from experience... My only crit win came from a perfectly timed solo break, taking a risk late in the race, when the weather quickly deteriorated and where the numbers had been diminished to the point where the only team with decent numbers left in the race was mine (and I could make that move realizing that if I got pegged back, it would set one of my teammates up for the win...).
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Re: Crit racing tips needed [trail] [ In reply to ]
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trail wrote:
RONDAL wrote:

- STAY OFF THE FRONT.


Depends. If you're in a break and refusing to pull, that's a good way to get attacked and bounced from the break.

Even in the field, if you want to stay in the top 5-6 riders and you find the leader rider in front of you just pulled off, it's *OK* to pull through, and then over. To keep a nice flow at the front going. Sometimes nothing pisses people off more than the guy who's constantly trying to stay right at the front but refuses to pull through. If that little effort of pulling through is going to hurt you, you don't really belong in the first 5-6 riders.

In both cases I find it's better to appear to be doing a little work, without actually doing much at all.

100% agree, The quick roll off is key. Roll up with the lull, roll through on a soft pedal. You were on the front, you did "work", you expended little to no energy.
This also saves you from the washing machine pulling you from 8th wheel to 28th as a group rolls through.
My comment was made more with the intent to remind folks to not pull if they dont have to. I see so many new riders go to the front and drill it for extended periods of time for no reason. They get used, abused, and dropped.
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Re: Crit racing tips needed [A-A-Ron] [ In reply to ]
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Quote:
Protect your front wheel.


This video is instructive. While folks generally try pretty hard to hold a straight line on group rides and people generally ride directly abreast but in races all bets are off so do not overlap wheels. You can't always be exactly abreast of the guys next to you but recognize that there is death zone between a slight overlap and where you are far enough forward to put an elbow into someone's hip if they start moving over on you. There are lots of points in a race where you either need to go backwards or forwards because staying where you are is risky.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BJr69MBg6-U




Last edited by: STP: Feb 8, 18 11:23
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Re: Crit racing tips needed [I ride Fuji's] [ In reply to ]
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I ride Fuji's wrote:
Take off the aerobars....

LOL! This is the best advice so far.

Back in the day, a buddy of mine and I would intentionally sit at the back and talk out loud about the next prime (I always wanted the 80's version of the Hello Kitty helmet) or if it was time to go get an ice cream cone (short for "Let's get the f-off the front").
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Re: Crit racing tips needed [zedzded] [ In reply to ]
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Stay on the inside (left) part of the road. Those roundabouts are going to be trouble. People will be running into the curbs (or braking hard to avoid them) and crashing often - especially in the first few laps.

If it were me, I'd work very hard to stay at the very front (left side) for the first few laps. So, you need to crank it for the first 5 laps, hang on for the next 10, then crank it again for the last 5.
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Re: Crit racing tips needed [zedzded] [ In reply to ]
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Don't overthink it for now. Just go race, see what it's like, try out a few different approaches, and then come back with thoughts and questions.
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Re: Crit racing tips needed [mjp202] [ In reply to ]
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Thanks for all the advice lads! Lots to take in, but I have some semblance of a race plan... which I'm sure will go out the window on the first lap, but hey... I'll let you know how I get on.
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Re: Crit racing tips needed [Trauma] [ In reply to ]
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Trauma wrote:
Quick clip in is key, or front row start. I have had a crit that was literally over in the first 10seconds because I had a 4th row start and the few guys around me in front of me struggle to clip in

I think an equally important skill is feeling comfortable riding a few hundred meters when you are not clipped in but still stepping on the pedal. This is easy with most look style cleats & even speedplay. That way if you don’t get clipped in immediately, you aren’t a sitting duck.
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Re: Crit racing tips needed [turningscrews] [ In reply to ]
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turningscrews wrote:
Trauma wrote:
Quick clip in is key, or front row start. I have had a crit that was literally over in the first 10seconds because I had a 4th row start and the few guys around me in front of me struggle to clip in


I think an equally important skill is feeling comfortable riding a few hundred meters when you are not clipped in but still stepping on the pedal. This is easy with most look style cleats & even speedplay. That way if you don’t get clipped in immediately, you aren’t a sitting duck.

So most crits go flat out from the start?
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Re: Crit racing tips needed [zedzded] [ In reply to ]
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I agree with more or less everything that's been said thus far. I've found a good time to attack is during / immediately after preme sprints. ie, sprint with the preme sprinters and keep going. There's some disorganization and people may assume you're just going for the preme. Also, occasionally you get brownies.


---------------------------------------------------------
All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to us. ~Gandalf
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Re: Crit racing tips needed [zedzded] [ In reply to ]
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zedzded wrote:
So most crits go flat out from the start?

No. But you should be prepared to go flat out from the start, just in case. That means lining up near the front if you can, and being fully warmed up and ready to go if necessary.

The most common scenario is that the first 200m or so is kinda fast, but not a full sprint, as people try to get good position immediately. But then there'll be a few relatively subdued warmup laps as everyone gets a little extra warmup before any real fireworks really start.

All depends on the people in the race, per my first post. Last year I was lining up for a crit and got a funny feeling while checking out some fast guys from one team who were on the front line. Some instinct told me to do a full cyclocross start (all out). I did, and just *barely* made into the 5-man break created by those fast guys who did a full ~1500W sprint off the line. The other ~50 people in the race never saw us again.

Always be alert.
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Re: Crit racing tips needed [ In reply to ]
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Some good tips on here.

Just want to point out that almost every early season cat 5 crit breaks up relatively early. Especially if it's windy (like most March/April races) or it's technical. Early season races in lower cats are especially scary because you've a ton of riders chomping at the bit after a winter of indoors but they have forgotten how to ride a bike at speed. Try to keep near the front and don't be reluctant to put your nose in the wind and move up the hard way if you feel uncomfortable. Yes, crits are all about efficiency but don't be afraid to expend a few extra kJs in the name of safety.

When I was racing in the Midwest the first crit of the year was on a motor racing track with zero tricky corners, but multiple ambulances were called every year. Spring fever is a dangerous thing.
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Re: Crit racing tips needed [zedzded] [ In reply to ]
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zedzded wrote:

So most crits go flat out from the start?

There was mention of it being a mixed start with U15 kids.
Those kids are highly likely to put the hammer down from the get go.
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Re: Crit racing tips needed [zedzded] [ In reply to ]
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For your first crit you simply need to show up and race. Then next weekend, do it again. Then the next, then the next.

Then, after you've done a few, you'll have a much better idea of any pertinent questions and things that you need to work on. And a lot more of what's been written in this thread will start to make sense.

There's simply too much "advice" to take in and digest without actually having done any racing. So go have fun, be safe, and report back.
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Re: Crit racing tips needed [turningscrews] [ In reply to ]
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turningscrews wrote:
Trauma wrote:
Quick clip in is key, or front row start. I have had a crit that was literally over in the first 10seconds because I had a 4th row start and the few guys around me in front of me struggle to clip in


I think an equally important skill is feeling comfortable riding a few hundred meters when you are not clipped in but still stepping on the pedal. This is easy with most look style cleats & even speedplay. That way if you don’t get clipped in immediately, you aren’t a sitting duck.

Yes... most people who have ridden cyclocross tend to have this skill on lock, these gents didn't. It was amplified, because we were effectively starting on short plateau in the middle of a climb...

Depends on the crit whether they are flat out from the gun. I find most of them tend to be, although some of the local training ones have a controlled ramp up, to give everyone chance to ride in the group, before they allow the racing to begin in earnest...

As for someone mentioning to ride inside line, especially with roundabouts... I'd put that in the so/so advice category... the risk riding inside, is that you get guys that bomb corners like they're riding solo, forgetting they're in a pack and come across you very quickly, so be ready to hop the curb if needed... Years back we had a crit that was literally a straightaway with a roundabout at each end... it was hairy at first, but it strung out really quickly, and was rarely wider than two abreast through the roundabouts... That was the crit where I was most nervous beforehand of all of the ones I have raced, but it was also the most fun...
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Re: Crit racing tips needed [zedzded] [ In reply to ]
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Find the local douchebag ride, typically populated with cat 3 & 4 riders and angry masters. The guys that race each other every day, disregard traffic laws, and have anger issues. Riding with them will prepare you for riding in a racing pack where everyone is angry and just looking out for themselves.

Don't find the higher category riders or more experienced masters who have bike racing in perspective, thinking that since those are "better" riders you'll learn more. They'll treat you with civility. There's no civility in a crit. Ride with these people once you've figured out what you're doing, and when you don't want every ride to be a fight.

PROTECTING YOUR FRONT WHEEL IS YOUR RESPONSIBILITY, NO ONE ELSE'S.


Wear reasonable length shorts & socks, and a jersey with sleeves. God forbid anyone tag you as a triathlete.
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Re: Crit racing tips needed [Trauma] [ In reply to ]
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I think of taking corners like this if you're in a pack that you don't really trust. Slow corners, take the outside line. There is usually less traffic on that line. Although it is the longer route you can usually carry more speed on that line so the acceleration won't be as rough coming out of the corner. Also if someone does happen to go down in a slow corner they will fall in place so the risk of being taken out is minimal. For a fast corner the line shouldn't matter, but he inside is the safest bet because at speed anyone who goes down, their momentum will carry them to the outside of the corner. Taking with them anyone who is outside of their line. Riders sweeping down to the apex from the outside nothing to worry about as long as you aren't the guy trying to make up positions by braking late and going down the inside of the corner. IMO if you are doing that it is you responsibility slightly more so that the riders taking the optimal line through the corner. They still shoulder some responsibility but are not to blame in that case you would be coming from behind and would better know where riders are going. Also when cornering a high speed look where you want to go and not were you are going. Everything will be much smoother if a change in line in needed. Someone has mentioned it before to but do not focus on the wheel just in front of yours only. Look two to three riders up. You will be able to see the flow of the pack better and your movements won't be as twitchy, sudden, or seem erratic. Also, I like to keep my cadence high that way the torque is minimized on the accelerations that occur.
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Re: Crit racing tips needed [woodys737] [ In reply to ]
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woodys737 wrote:
trail wrote:
sebo2000 wrote:

-Don’t “fight” for position on lap 5, it does not matter where you are on lap 5


Why not?


+2. 5 to go is when the race is on. Fight or lose.



ON lap 5 not 5 to go, big difference.

Yes 5 to go if you are not at the front you never will be.
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Re: Crit racing tips needed [trail] [ In reply to ]
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trail wrote:
sebo2000 wrote:

-Don’t “fight” for position on lap 5, it does not matter where you are on lap 5


Why not?

because you have 50 more to go...
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Re: Crit racing tips needed [pknight] [ In reply to ]
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pknight wrote:
crits are the X-games for mid life crisis masters

:)) yeah rodeo for modern gladiators...
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Re: Crit racing tips needed [sebo2000] [ In reply to ]
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sebo2000 wrote:

because you have 50 more to go...


You can take a gamble and stay back. But you run the risk that your race could be over like 2 minutes into the race (if your intention was to win).

Here is Colin Strickland in lap five, ending everyone's race. You can tell the camerman "Crit King" Daniel Holloway nearly decided to try the bridge, but didn't.


Last edited by: trail: Feb 9, 18 7:58
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Re: Crit racing tips needed [trail] [ In reply to ]
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trail wrote:
sebo2000 wrote:

because you have 50 more to go...


You can take a gamble and stay back. But you run the risk that your race could be over like 2 minutes into the race (if your intention was to win).

Here is Colin Strickland in lap five, ending everyone's race. You can tell the camerman "Crit King" Daniel Holloway nearly decided to try the bridge, but didn't.


This is Redhook, it is not a crit...

It is fixie shitshow for hipsters with beards, they have no brakes and dynamics are totally different from normal crit, it is more like track racing on steroids.
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Re: Crit racing tips needed [sebo2000] [ In reply to ]
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sebo2000 wrote:
It is fixie shitshow for hipsters with beards, they have no brakes and dynamics are totally different from normal crit, it is more like track racing on steroids.

The guy with the camera is a multi-time U.S. national criterium champion, and world-class caliber (he just won a track World Cup in the omnium, and is the U.S. men's omnium racer on for the upcoming track World Championships. Not a hipster.

Those are all, really, really good criterium racers. The dynamics aren't that different. You don't use brakes in crits, generally, anyway.

In any case I could find example after example of criteriums where the action all happened in the first 5 laps. You have to be alert.

You can rest in back if you're the sprinter and it's the job of your teammates to neutralize any breaks and force a field sprint. If you don't have team tactics playing out, you'd better be near the front.
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Re: Crit racing tips needed [zedzded] [ In reply to ]
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zedzded wrote:
I'm popping my crit cherry this weekend. No idea what I'm doing.... It's 20 x 1km loops and there are 5 grades, A - E, with E being the slowest. I think noobs have to start in E or D for their first race. Do I just start at the back, wait for someone to make a move and then go with them? At what stage do people normally make a break, only towards the end or it can be whenever? Are they normally close to flat out the whole way with the faster guys trying to wear out the slower guys?


There's some seriously dubious advice here, but some good information, too. In general, listen to what RONDAL, trail, and GingerAvenger have to say. The macho hubris exhibited by most of the others is typical of the people that think they know it all because they're "triathlon fit," but are really just folks real racers are trying to avoid so they can get on with things. And more than anything, try to relax and observe the race as it unfolds. You'll learn a lot by watching what others do. And have fun. If you're stressed and hate it you'll never be motivated to do more and improve.
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Re: Crit racing tips needed [sebo2000] [ In reply to ]
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sebo2000 wrote:
woodys737 wrote:
trail wrote:
sebo2000 wrote:

-Don’t “fight” for position on lap 5, it does not matter where you are on lap 5


Why not?


+2. 5 to go is when the race is on. Fight or lose.




ON lap 5 not 5 to go, big difference.

Yes 5 to go if you are not at the front you never will be.

Ok I'm with you now. Will go back to reading comprehension 101 now...:-)
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Re: Crit racing tips needed [sebo2000] [ In reply to ]
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sebo2000 wrote:
woodys737 wrote:
trail wrote:
sebo2000 wrote:

-Don’t “fight” for position on lap 5, it does not matter where you are on lap 5


Why not?


+2. 5 to go is when the race is on. Fight or lose.




ON lap 5 not 5 to go, big difference.

Yes 5 to go if you are not at the front you never will be.

I'll give you an example of this NOT being true, but keep in mind it's course-specific and in a teamwork scenario.

This was in the district championship criterium some years ago at Seward Park (southeast Seattle on Lake Washington), an oft-used loop for the weekly Thursday Night Worlds. Anyway, it's a 1K loop with only one real turn, a tight acute hairpin. We were running counter-clockwise, so there was a long gentle incline with a sweeping wide right hand bend leading into that tight left-hand turn. On the last lap, instead of taking the turn we ran straight to the finish line.

On EVERY lap, I watched everyone bunch up on the right side of the road, both for the shortest distance around that bend, but also to line up for the widest line into the left turn. And I could make up half the field easily on each of these laps by going wide on the sweeper and then getting into position for the leftie. Just that one short section of road. On a couple of laps I went from near last to near first on that sweeper, everyone left the outside line so open.

So I had a really strong team mate, good long-sprinter type, and we were gunning for him to do well at this race. With two laps to go he's beside me near the back of the pack. And he's getting jumpy. I tell him, relax, stay with me, it'll work. We cruise through to the bell, just chilling. He's going "Dave, we have to go now!" I tell him to relax and just be ready to follow my wheel, he'll know when to take over. We hit the bottom of the course and things start to bunch up as we sweep left, still near the back of the pack. "Dave!?!?" "Chill!"

As the road swept right again, sure enough, EVERY ONE was bunching up on the right, looking for a wheel. I launched with Brian on my wheel. When I cleared the front, I swept right making sure I had enough gap to not cross any wheels, and he took off straight for the finish line. I let the pack swallow me up, so I didn't see just how much gap he ended up with at the line, but it wasn't even close.

And he had his whole family there to see it. It was one of my most memorable races, even ahead of my own wins.

That's not to say this would work all the time, or even most of the time. In fact, it's pretty rare. But knowing the course, watching what's happening and where people are going can reap great rewards. And sometimes not actually winning can be very rewarding.

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Some are born to move the world to live their fantasies...

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Re: Crit racing tips needed [T-wrecks] [ In reply to ]
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assumption
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Re: Crit racing tips needed [zedzded] [ In reply to ]
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zedzded wrote:
turningscrews wrote:
Trauma wrote:
Quick clip in is key, or front row start. I have had a crit that was literally over in the first 10seconds because I had a 4th row start and the few guys around me in front of me struggle to clip in


I think an equally important skill is feeling comfortable riding a few hundred meters when you are not clipped in but still stepping on the pedal. This is easy with most look style cleats & even speedplay. That way if you don’t get clipped in immediately, you aren’t a sitting duck.

So most crits go flat out from the start?

Whether they do or not, I’d rather be moving backwards through the field while moving than standing still & watching them ride away. I’ve done 100’s of crits & it is crazy how many cleats you hear engage in the first 100 meters, as the pack is moving.
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Re: Crit racing tips needed [turningscrews] [ In reply to ]
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First up, cheers for all the advice, much appreciated! Race was good fun, very different. There were probably about 35 racers, a mix of D, E and U16, probably about 10 fit looking guys. First lap was quick and there was a 500m incline into a strong headwind that was tough, but after a few laps the pace dropped right down to about 35km/hr, 22mph.

I was positioned about 10th, which felt about right and the pace felt comfortable, probably too slow. I was riding with 3 other guys from my tri club and at lap 5 (of 17?) me and one other guy attacked. Up till then, no-one had gone and it was starting to feel like a casual coffee ride. We hammered it for a lap or so, but surprisingly barely made much of a gap and the chasing pack quickly caught us up as we eased off the pedal (HR was maxed out). I sat back for a few more laps, very few serious attacks, so I waited until we hit the incline/wind and people were working hard and had another go by myself, I couldn't see my mates to let them know.

Obviously attacking by yourself is a no, no, but I kind of wanted to try a few things. I don't think sitting at the back the entire race and sprinting the last 200m was going to teach me much? I made a small gap, but again was quickly caught by the pack as soon as I slowed. Considering how out of shape some guys looked it's amazing barely anyone was dropped. A few laps later another guy attacked by himself and I went with him 30s later. Again no effect. So I settled back down again, near the front, letting some others do the work.

I was told there would be a 2 lap warning, then a final bell, but apparently the 2 lap warning came after we passed, so when the final bell went I wasn't sure if that was the final bell or the warning for 2nd lap, so I asked a few people and eventually established it was the final lap with 800m to go. I wasn't in a great position, maybe 8th, but with a couple of tight corners to get round. Then we almost got taken out by one of the U16 kids and that pushed a few of us wide as we approached the final bend, coming out of the bend I was 5th and ended up either 3rd or 4th. Not sure yet. The 2 guys who finished in front of me didn't look fit and had been at the back the whole race, but obviously got their tactics sorted out!

One of the other guys from my club dropped a chain so he was out of it, the other finished just behind me. I'm glad I had those attacks despite them being ineffectual, I don't think they really had a negative impact on my race. If I'd known we were approaching the last lap I could have got myself in a much better position, rookie error. And I think (correct me if I'm wrong) you need to attack with more than 2? So definitely a steep learning curve. I'm not sure I want to race just sitting at the back and then attacking the final lap, just got to figure out how to attack effectively earlier on. Av speed was 25mph, max speed was 33mph. Definitely want to have another race. Was awesome fun!
Last edited by: zedzded: Feb 10, 18 18:35
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Re: Crit racing tips needed [zedzded] [ In reply to ]
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Great post. I was sure you were going to tell a crash story. Criteriums are pure mayhem. I may have to seek out a masters race. I miss that.
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Re: Crit racing tips needed [exxxviii] [ In reply to ]
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exxxviii wrote:
Great post. I was sure you were going to tell a crash story. Criteriums are pure mayhem. I may have to seek out a masters race. I miss that.

A few close calls, one of the young 15yo was all over the place, almost cleaning a few of us up on a couple of occasions. What's interesting about crits, at least from this race, is that not necessarily the fittest/fastest wins. Not sure how it works up the higher grades.
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Re: Crit racing tips needed [zedzded] [ In reply to ]
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When I was racing 30 years ago, I was always surprised that the Cat 4 (no 5 then) was faster avg. speed than Cat 3 & 2.
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Re: Crit racing tips needed [exxxviii] [ In reply to ]
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exxxviii wrote:
When I was racing 30 years ago, I was always surprised that the Cat 4 (no 5 then) was faster avg. speed than Cat 3 & 2.

Yeah I can see how that could happen.
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Re: Crit racing tips needed [vjohn] [ In reply to ]
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vjohn wrote:
Find the local douchebag ride, typically populated with cat 3 & 4 riders and angry masters. The guys that race each other every day, disregard traffic laws, and have anger issues. Riding with them will prepare you for riding in a racing pack where everyone is angry and just looking out for themselves.

Don't find the higher category riders or more experienced masters who have bike racing in perspective, thinking that since those are "better" riders you'll learn more. They'll treat you with civility. There's no civility in a crit. Ride with these people once you've figured out what you're doing, and when you don't want every ride to be a fight.

PROTECTING YOUR FRONT WHEEL IS YOUR RESPONSIBILITY, NO ONE ELSE'S.


Wear reasonable length shorts & socks, and a jersey with sleeves. God forbid anyone tag you as a triathlete.

To be honest it doesn't sound like you have the experience to be giving OP advice. Seems like you're bitter towards roadies because you showed up in a sleeveless jersey, didn't know how to ride in a group and maybe got dropped. If you're putting others in danger during a group ride, there may be some people who get upset because they've experienced the crashes that come from this. You may have gotten comments about your tri attire because triathletes are commonly the most dangerous on a group ride. They generally don't have the specific fitness or the skills to ride fast in a tight pack but think their endurance will transfer. Its a recipe for disaster so unless someone has proven themselves you may get some comments. To say there is no civility/people are angry and unwilling to be helpful is just incorrect.
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Re: Crit racing tips needed [zedzded] [ In reply to ]
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zedzded wrote:
exxxviii wrote:
Great post. I was sure you were going to tell a crash story. Criteriums are pure mayhem. I may have to seek out a masters race. I miss that.


What's interesting about crits, at least from this race, is that not necessarily the fittest/fastest wins. Not sure how it works up the higher grades.

As I wrote back on page 2, crits (and racing in general) are often about doing the LEAST amount of work possible for the highest placing possible. If I have my way when racing, you won't see or hear from me until 200m to go. If you're going to go to the front and do work, you better make sure that you are making others do just as much work or more, otherwise you won't be a factor at the end. If you want a pure show of fitness go race TT's. Otherwise tactics are as important as fitness.
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Re: Crit racing tips needed [zedzded] [ In reply to ]
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zedzded wrote:
exxxviii wrote:
Great post. I was sure you were going to tell a crash story. Criteriums are pure mayhem. I may have to seek out a masters race. I miss that.


A few close calls, one of the young 15yo was all over the place, almost cleaning a few of us up on a couple of occasions. What's interesting about crits, at least from this race, is that not necessarily the fittest/fastest wins. Not sure how it works up the higher grades.

Congrats on the race. Seeing how the "strongest" person rarely wins can be maddening and happens in every race and in every category. It's also super motivating and makes you want to try again and again and again until you're the one winning. It almost feels like you've pulled a fast one on the rest of the pack. And it also feels awesome.
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Re: Crit racing tips needed [RONDAL] [ In reply to ]
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RONDAL wrote:
zedzded wrote:
exxxviii wrote:
Great post. I was sure you were going to tell a crash story. Criteriums are pure mayhem. I may have to seek out a masters race. I miss that.


What's interesting about crits, at least from this race, is that not necessarily the fittest/fastest wins. Not sure how it works up the higher grades.


As I wrote back on page 2, crits (and racing in general) are often about doing the LEAST amount of work possible for the highest placing possible. If I have my way when racing, you won't see or hear from me until 200m to go. If you're going to go to the front and do work, you better make sure that you are making others do just as much work or more, otherwise you won't be a factor at the end. If you want a pure show of fitness go race TT's. Otherwise tactics are as important as fitness.


Yup for sure. I'm keen to race again. Might do one more D race, then go to C. I think B would be too quick for me.
Last edited by: zedzded: Feb 11, 18 17:02
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Re: Crit racing tips needed [zedzded] [ In reply to ]
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zedzded wrote:
exxxviii wrote:
Great post. I was sure you were going to tell a crash story. Criteriums are pure mayhem. I may have to seek out a masters race. I miss that.


A few close calls, one of the young 15yo was all over the place, almost cleaning a few of us up on a couple of occasions. What's interesting about crits, at least from this race, is that not necessarily the fittest/fastest wins. Not sure how it works up the higher grades.

Gets even more extreme the higher up you get. Timing and tactics become much more important.
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Re: Crit racing tips needed [rubik] [ In reply to ]
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rubik wrote:
zedzded wrote:
exxxviii wrote:
Great post. I was sure you were going to tell a crash story. Criteriums are pure mayhem. I may have to seek out a masters race. I miss that.


A few close calls, one of the young 15yo was all over the place, almost cleaning a few of us up on a couple of occasions. What's interesting about crits, at least from this race, is that not necessarily the fittest/fastest wins. Not sure how it works up the higher grades.


Gets even more extreme the higher up you get. Timing and tactics become much more important.

What happened in D grade, is people seemed very happy just cruising along, obviously saving their energy for the final lap. So at times it was really pedestrian, didn't feel like a race. I reckon without 4 or 5 guys back breaks/mini breaks the pace would have been even slower. Is that how it works higher up the grades?
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Re: Crit racing tips needed [zedzded] [ In reply to ]
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zedzded wrote:
rubik wrote:
zedzded wrote:
exxxviii wrote:
Great post. I was sure you were going to tell a crash story. Criteriums are pure mayhem. I may have to seek out a masters race. I miss that.


A few close calls, one of the young 15yo was all over the place, almost cleaning a few of us up on a couple of occasions. What's interesting about crits, at least from this race, is that not necessarily the fittest/fastest wins. Not sure how it works up the higher grades.


Gets even more extreme the higher up you get. Timing and tactics become much more important.


What happened in D grade, is people seemed very happy just cruising along, obviously saving their energy for the final lap. So at times it was really pedestrian, didn't feel like a race. I reckon without 4 or 5 guys back breaks/mini breaks the pace would have been even slower. Is that how it works higher up the grades?

Sometimes. Especially in road races when the break goes. Can get downright boring at times. Crits tend to stay pretty fast for the majority, but still can have their lulls when a move goes that everyone's happy with.

Biggest difference is how much harder and longer the hard sections are. When it's on, it's really on.
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Last edited by: zedzded: Feb 11, 18 19:05
Re: Crit racing tips needed [Morelock] [ In reply to ]
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Morelock wrote:
We have prime laps, yeah.

Prime laps hurt, it's amazing how nuts a group of middle age men will go over a bag of Cheetos. Generally there is a small sit-up after the sprint, but sometimes gaps will open and it can create some interesting changes in the race.
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Re: Crit racing tips needed [zedzded] [ In reply to ]
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zedzded wrote:
I also got an official warning and told I was lucky not to get banned for 1 month... some guy started abusing me because I freewheeled round a corner, I was gassed after making a break and he was with the chasing pack, so when he went past me, I whacked the back of his helmet. Apparently you can't do that. Almost ended in fisticuffs after the race, but we got it sorted out in the end.

There seemed to be a lot of aggression coming from people who were doing nothing but sit behind others..

Yeah, don't hit people.

Thats just a good guideline for life in general, no matter what the USAC rulebook says.
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Re: Crit racing tips needed [zedzded] [ In reply to ]
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"some guy started abusing me because I freewheeled round a corner, I was gassed after making a break and he was with the chasing pack, when he went past me, I whacked the back of his helmet."

"There seemed to be a lot of aggression coming from people who were doing nothing but sit behind others.."
===============================================


Seems like maybe there was a lot of aggression in general.
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Re: Crit racing tips needed [kdw] [ In reply to ]
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kdw wrote:
"some guy started abusing me because I freewheeled round a corner, I was gassed after making a break and he was with the chasing pack, when he went past me, I whacked the back of his helmet."

"There seemed to be a lot of aggression coming from people who were doing nothing but sit behind others.."
===============================================


Seems like maybe there was a lot of aggression in general.

Yeah I over-reacted. Ended up apologising to him afterwards.
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Re: Crit racing tips needed [zedzded] [ In reply to ]
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you should have been sent straight to B or C grade with that conduct
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Re: Crit racing tips needed [ziggie204] [ In reply to ]
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ziggie204 wrote:
Morelock wrote:
We have prime laps, yeah.

Prime laps hurt, it's amazing how nuts a group of middle age men will go over a bag of Cheetos. Generally there is a small sit-up after the sprint, but sometimes gaps will open and it can create some interesting changes in the race.

Donuts man!! Out of the way!!!

My Blog - http://leegoocrap.blogspot.com
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Re: Crit racing tips needed [zedzded] [ In reply to ]
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zedzded wrote:
So at times it was really pedestrian, didn't feel like a race. I reckon without 4 or 5 guys back breaks/mini breaks the pace would have been even slower. Is that how it works higher up the grades?

Nice job! What you describe is typical for a lower-level crit where no one really knows anyone else.

Once everyone gets to know most of the other people (which tends to happen at higher levels because there's less turnover), two things start to happen.

1) The strong TT-types learn who the other strong TT-types are, and they conspire to drop the field. Breaks become more likely.

2) Team tactics start to play out more effectively, which can completely change the complexion of a race.


A problem when no one knows anyone else is a strong TT-type guy (like you) will attack up the road, and all the other strong TT guys will panic and work to shut it down, bringing the whole field with him. After a while the strong guys throw their hands in the air and give up, and the everything slows down. This is referred to as "negative racing." But if you race a few more times a light bulb will go off in the heads of the other TT guys, "Oh, zedzed is going up the road. I will go *help* him, rather than shut him down." Then you get say 4 TT guys up the road, and suddenly all those guys who were hoping to sit in until the last lap are all racing for 5th. The key to this is being able to jump from the field without anyone being able (or wanting to) grab your wheel. It's a hard, explosive effort. And then you still have to go at a hard, consistent pace after that effort.

In my area the higher-level masters races are often sorted out in the first 5-10 minutes because all the strong guys work *together* to drop the field. At first your competitors are friends. Then, when the break is solidified, they become your enemies again. Or rather you try to appear to them like you're still they're friend, but really you're plotting when to sneak up on them and shank them 20 times in the the back (figuratively speaking).

Team tactics is a whole other thread.
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Re: Crit racing tips needed [trail] [ In reply to ]
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There's rarely team tactics in a cat 5 crit... Our local series just has A and B races... B tends to be your cat 3/4 types, and most women (cadets, and slow juniors)... But I remember soloing off the front in one of the races... only to look back and see one of my "teammates" on the front trying to gun me back... Ironically, one of the pro women was sitting in his wheel and rode up beside him and smacked him and told him to get off the front while I was solo (I wish i had seen it, I only hear about this after the race)... Unfortunately by the time he was no longer on the front, my gap had dropped from 30s down to under 10, so the writing was on the wall... some of the guys from our team had a talk with him after the race to kind of explain the dos and donts (he was super strong, but super inexperienced...). You would get the odd tactical race, but generally they would end in bunch sprints...

In terms of when crashes happen, aside from the flagrant errors like half-wheeling and swinging without shoulder checks... you can generally predict risk by the shape of the pack, the more the pace is high and things are strung out, the safer it tends to be (most crashes in these cases are guys over leaning or clipping pedals in a corner, and tend to only involve 1-2 guys going down)... When the pack is bunched up and many guys wide, and moving slower, you tend to get way more funny business in the pack, and it is prone to bigger pile-ups...
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Re: Crit racing tips needed [zedzded] [ In reply to ]
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Congrats on your first race and experimenting with certain tactics.

Some of my thoughts based on your comments.

1. If you feel like the pace is way too easy, rest assured, so does everyone else. So if you choose to up the pace or start a break, don't be surprised if you can't get much of a gap.

2. Who actually wins is sometimes all about fitness, and sometimes it's just about playing the cards the cards you have dealt to you. I've won 3 open road races, and my front wheel has never saw the wind for more than 30 seconds in any of those races. I've also tried going out into the break...it doesn't end up well for me.

3. Nobody should feel they have to verbally abuse you, but playing devil's advocate here, you should never suddenly change your speed, especially coming out of a corner. That's how crashes happen. In a crit, you are relying on everyone around you to be predictable, and coming out of a corner is usually when the gas gets turned on...not off. ETA: There are ways to fall back in the pack when you're gassed, slowing (or not keeping the speed of the pack) in a corner is not one of them. Lesson learned though...I'm glad cooler heads prevailed in the end.
Last edited by: Jason N: Feb 12, 18 10:05
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Re: Crit racing tips needed [Hammer Down] [ In reply to ]
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The tips on clothing were somewhat tongue in cheek, but the rest has a basis in reality.

Really though, you've missed the mark by a large margin in trying to infer my credentials from that one post. I've been a road racer since 1986, I was a cat 1 from 1992 - 2015, and I'm still a 2. I'm a 2-time state criterium champion, of the >1000 races I've started, nearly half were crits , and I won more than a few of those. I've ridden some of the biggest pro-am crits in the country: Revco Cleveland, Somerville, Point Pleasant, Freehold, and I've raced in nearly every region of the US, plus Ontario and Quebec. I've been a coach since 2001, and have coached numerous riders to national championships and other top results.

I've never competed in a triathlon. Lots of my friends have though.

By all means disagree with the content of what I posted, and provide a basis for your disagreement.
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Re: Crit racing tips needed [trail] [ In reply to ]
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trail wrote:
zedzded wrote:
So at times it was really pedestrian, didn't feel like a race. I reckon without 4 or 5 guys back breaks/mini breaks the pace would have been even slower. Is that how it works higher up the grades?


Nice job! What you describe is typical for a lower-level crit where no one really knows anyone else.

Once everyone gets to know most of the other people (which tends to happen at higher levels because there's less turnover), two things start to happen.

1) The strong TT-types learn who the other strong TT-types are, and they conspire to drop the field. Breaks become more likely.

2) Team tactics start to play out more effectively, which can completely change the complexion of a race.


A problem when no one knows anyone else is a strong TT-type guy (like you) will attack up the road, and all the other strong TT guys will panic and work to shut it down, bringing the whole field with him. After a while the strong guys throw their hands in the air and give up, and the everything slows down. This is referred to as "negative racing." But if you race a few more times a light bulb will go off in the heads of the other TT guys, "Oh, zedzed is going up the road. I will go *help* him, rather than shut him down." Then you get say 4 TT guys up the road, and suddenly all those guys who were hoping to sit in until the last lap are all racing for 5th. The key to this is being able to jump from the field without anyone being able (or wanting to) grab your wheel. It's a hard, explosive effort. And then you still have to go at a hard, consistent pace after that effort.

In my area the higher-level masters races are often sorted out in the first 5-10 minutes because all the strong guys work *together* to drop the field. At first your competitors are friends. Then, when the break is solidified, they become your enemies again. Or rather you try to appear to them like you're still they're friend, but really you're plotting when to sneak up on them and shank them 20 times in the the back (figuratively speaking).

Team tactics is a whole other thread.

Yeah I spent the last 24 hours puzzling over how we could have won that. Most races, swim, run or whatever, its generally fastest wins, not so in this race. I suppose that adds to the excitement and intrigue. Tactics being so important really adds another dimension. The aim before the race was to work as a 4, that never happened, it requires more planning and coordination I guess. 2 of us were near the front, 2 near the back. I think if we'd had a plan on say lap 5 we all go for it, it could have worked. As it was 2 of us quickly ran out of gas. That crit was just going to be a once off, but I don't have training this Saturday and I see there's another one one .... It's a different course (see below), but I will be doing this by myself, my mates are doing other stuff. I definitely want to try and initiate a break, rather than just sit at the back then go for it last lap. More of a case of me wanting to try different things, push myself and make sure everyone else gets worked :) I guess try and see if there are 2 or 3 others before the race and have a chat, or do you just have a word with a few guys mid-race and say lets go for it?



Technology Park Bentley provides a near perfect venue for criterium racing. Spectators are able to get an excellent view of the racing from the shady grassed banked area on the home straight and it is ideally situated close to the CBD. The riders get to enjoy a circuit that has a bit of everything.
The finish straight on Brodie Hall Driver has a slight incline that is guaranteed to break the race up as the pace goes on. After the start / finish straight the circuit drops significantly into a fast, slightly off camber 90 degree left hander. For the more skilled rider, this corner can be taken without any braking. For the less brave rider they can quickly find themselves losing the wheel in front and having to sprint hard to get back on. This combined with the incline on the home straight can lead to a high attrition rate. The bottom straight leads into a sweeping left hander back onto Brodie Hall Drive. Riders then accelerate back up the hill to the start / finish line.
The circuit provides a true test for all riders, it rewards the strong and skilled bike rider. It is not uncommon to see a win from a breakaway on this course.
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Re: Crit racing tips needed [Jason N] [ In reply to ]
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Jason N wrote:
Congrats on your first race and experimenting with certain tactics.

Some of my thoughts based on your comments.

1. If you feel like the pace is way too easy, rest assured, so does everyone else. So if you choose to up the pace or start a break, don't be surprised if you can't get much of a gap.

2. Who actually wins is sometimes all about fitness, and sometimes it's just about playing the cards the cards you have dealt to you. I've won 3 open road races, and my front wheel has never saw the wind for more than 30 seconds in any of those races. I've also tried going out into the break...it doesn't end up well for me.

3. Nobody should feel they have to verbally abuse you, but playing devil's advocate here, you should never suddenly change your speed, especially coming out of a corner. That's how crashes happen. In a crit, you are relying on everyone around you to be predictable, and coming out of a corner is usually when the gas gets turned on...not off. ETA: There are ways to fall back in the pack when you're gassed, slowing (or not keeping the speed of the pack) in a corner is not one of them. Lesson learned though...I'm glad cooler heads prevailed in the end.

Yeah I figured that the guy was probably right, I just took exception to the way in which he spoke to me. But I guess thats part of racing crits. I'll know what to expect next time.
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Re: Crit racing tips needed [vjohn] [ In reply to ]
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Some really great advice given in this thread, wow, incredible experience and knowledge. Wish I'd have gotten such good advice when I started a few years ago. My first races were real learning experiences, I was so ignorant of so much. Went into it with eyes and ears open, though, and while it was a little frustrating to be a beginner in some ways, being a student is quite fun. You get to take in so many fundamentals, and come back to apply what you learned and see if they were lessons learned, or works in progress.

One of the things I learned was that I needed some rationale for when to start a sprint or other hard effort, regardless of what other people were doing, just based on my own capabilities. I needed to have some strategy, not just ride reacting to what everyone else was doing and letting others dictate my race. This is where training with power became a very useful learning tool and the info fueled race strategy. If you can train with power, you'll learn a lot about yourself, and it can provide some very helpful foundation for your race plan.
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Re: Crit racing tips needed [zedzded] [ In reply to ]
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zedzded wrote:
The aim before the race was to work as a 4, that never happened, it requires more planning and coordination I guess. 2 of us were near the front, 2 near the back.

In the history of crit racing no Cat 5 (or E or whatever) race plan has ever worked. Ever. No "leadout train." No planned break. Nothing.

I'm being a little facetious, but it's pretty true.

It's more commonly successful at higher categories, but even then you have to be ready for the military truism that no plan survives first contact with the enemy.
If you're going to start working on teamwork, work on 2-man tactics among teammates nearly equally fit. And even then, just modest goals, like successfully linking up near the front with 5 to go. If you can do that, you're doing really well. After you get a few guys who are both fit and skilled enough to move anywhere in the field they want to go at any time, then you can start to put together more complex teamwork.
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Re: Crit racing tips needed [Karl.n] [ In reply to ]
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zedzded wrote:

There seemed to be a lot of aggression coming from people who were doing nothing but sit behind others..


Frustration coming from people behind is generally just a verbal showcase for their own frustration at their inability to do anything themselves.

I've heard a good number of people make it on to the tail end of a break and SCREAM for the people at the front to ride harder while they're coughing up a lung... it's just because they can't do it themselves but desperately want to be in the break. A few times I'd just pull off and stare at them and maybe make a snide comment about them doing it themselves, but eventually came to realize that was just a waste of time for all involved.

In the end it's best to ignore them because they may recover a bit and be able to help later on. People can do and say silly things when they're pumped full of hydrogen ions and in severe oxygen debt.
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Re: Crit racing tips needed [zedzded] [ In reply to ]
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zedzded wrote:
The aim before the race was to work as a 4, that never happened, it requires more planning and coordination I guess. 2 of us were near the front, 2 near the back. I think if we'd had a plan on say lap 5 we all go for it, it could have worked.

Team tactics is a whole lot more than four guys saying "let's all go now". Sure, you can get a team train going, and when I was bike racing I was first lead-out man (strong TT'er, no top end explosion though) and we took a lot of wins using a three-man train with two or three to go. But if you're talking about trying a four man break of all one team... Not gonna happen. In any cat. A solo with three blocking has a much better chance of success.

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Re: Crit racing tips needed [brider] [ In reply to ]
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brider wrote:
zedzded wrote:

The aim before the race was to work as a 4, that never happened, it requires more planning and coordination I guess. 2 of us were near the front, 2 near the back. I think if we'd had a plan on say lap 5 we all go for it, it could have worked.


Team tactics is a whole lot more than four guys saying "let's all go now". Sure, you can get a team train going, and when I was bike racing I was first lead-out man (strong TT'er, no top end explosion though) and we took a lot of wins using a three-man train with two or three to go. But if you're talking about trying a four man break of all one team... Not gonna happen. In any cat. A solo with three blocking has a much better chance of success.

This...

A better team tactic would be to try and put 1 or 2 in a break and then monitor the pack with the remainder... Any bridge attempt after that, you could then send a rider with them (with the instructions to do no work, until the junction is made (and then usually it's straight to the front and then give it gas...)... you shouldn't be towing people up to the break, but you should accept the free ride... the tactic discourages people trying to cross the gap, because they get pissed dragging dead weight with them, or if they do cross the gap, you then have better numbers). That combined with chasing down any dangerous bridge attempts from the pack, will give you your best chance... People will chase down a TTT, but if you execute a tactical race smartly (bonus points if you make sure that the initial break has any of the other strong teams in your race represented, so they are less likely to organize a proper chase), there's not much that they can do. I've put 4 guys in a break of 11(2 out of 7 in the original, and then two of us hitched rides across as outlined above), but there wasn't enough motivation, so the gap was rapidly falling. A group of 4 of us ended up re-attacking the break (including me and a teammate and two other riders). We stuck it out for a good while, but got caught in the last few laps (one rider stopped working too soon to back themselves in a sprint, rather than making sure we got to a sprint...).
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Re: Crit racing tips needed [RONDAL] [ In reply to ]
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As I wrote back on page 2, crits (and racing in general) are often about doing the LEAST amount of work possible for the highest placing possible. If I have my way when racing, you won't see or hear from me until 200m to go. If you're going to go to the front and do work, you better make sure that you are making others do just as much work or more, otherwise you won't be a factor at the end. If you want a pure show of fitness go race TT's. Otherwise tactics are as important as fitness.


If you are a triathlete contemplating road racing, criteriums included - read this over about 10-times and commit it to memory.

For many triathletes this is VERY hard to get their head around, but consider this, the typical Tour de France winner, outside of time-trials, in three weeks of road racing spends in total only about 15 - 20 minutes, on the front!! That's it.

Yes you need great fitness to be a bike racer, but it's all about keeping as much of that in reserve as you can, and then at the right movement (and that moment will be different in almost every race you do), committing FULLY to what you have. It's also important to note that this will fail spectacularly more times than it will be "successful" - and that's true right on through the ranks from Cat-5's to Pros! It's a merciless, ruthless sport!


Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog
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Re: Crit racing tips needed [Fleck] [ In reply to ]
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Fleck wrote:
For many triathletes this is VERY hard to get their head around, but consider this, the typical Tour de France winner, outside of time-trials, in three weeks of road racing spends in total only about 15 - 20 minutes, on the front!! That's it.

Yes, this is a HUGE lesson that triathletes need to get through in the transition to becoming a bike racer -- I had to do it myself. You will (almost) never be able to "out strong" the pack.

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Yes you need great fitness to be a bike racer, but it's all about keeping as much of that in reserve as you can, and then at the right moment (and that moment will be different in almost every race you do), committing FULLY to what you have. It's also important to note that this will fail spectacularly more times than it will be "successful" - and that's true right on through the ranks from Cat-5's to Pros! It's a merciless, ruthless sport!

This ^^^. Making a break happen (and I was famous for taking flyers in road races) is a 100% commitment. If you're lucky you might be able to recover enough to try it again (well) after being caught. Yes, it will fail more often than not, but it's a whole lot of painful fun when it does succeed.

But it also takes 100% commitment of team mates to help shut down the pack, or risk their own placing to help the success of the break.

Likewise, that first lead out guy (my role when it came to pack finishes) was a 100% commitment to get my guys delivered to the front at the right time, only to finish well outside the placings (usually heaving my lungs out as I coasted across the line near the back of the pack).

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Re: Crit racing tips needed [Super D] [ In reply to ]
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Super D wrote:

One of the things I learned was that I needed some rationale for when to start a sprint or other hard effort, regardless of what other people were doing, just based on my own capabilities. I needed to have some strategy, not just ride reacting to what everyone else was doing and letting others dictate my race. This is where training with power became a very useful learning tool and the info fueled race strategy. If you can train with power, you'll learn a lot about yourself, and it can provide some very helpful foundation for your race plan.

I would very much agree that you need some type of rationale for when to start a sprint or other hard effort.

I would disagree that rationale is "regardless of what other people were doing" or "not just ride reacting to what everyone else was doing"

Road racing is not about how much effort you put out, or how fast you finish the race. It's about finishing ahead of other people...best case, ahead of everyone. To accomplish that, you very much have to react to what everyone else is doing, and plan your moves accordingly to create the best opportunity for a gap. Riding a road race while monitoring your power and planning strategy around power is probably the worst way to do it.

Training with power helps build your fitness, and can help you train for certain moments on your own when you don't have a fast group ride available to you. But what you actually do in a race, at that moment in time, usually has nothing to do with a power strategy. You build that type of instinct by racing more often. Riding your local world's group ride on a regular basis.

I've made winning moves that are totally unconventional. Starting my sprint from around 30 seconds out instead of my bread and butter of about 12 seconds where I have the most pop in my power curve. It just depends on how any move will translate to creating a gap and situational odds of how the field will react. Very rarely will you know exactly how any move you make will turn out. A lot depends on luck as well. But the starting point of any decision to make a move always has to do with how the others around you are currently riding and where you are in relation to them...in terms of position, fitness, and fatigue levels.
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Re: Crit racing tips needed [brider] [ In reply to ]
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This ^^^. Making a break happen (and I was famous for taking flyers in road races) is a 100% commitment. If you're lucky you might be able to recover enough to try it again (well) after being caught. Yes, it will fail more often than not, but it's a whole lot of painful fun when it does succeed.


I was in a local Master's Road Race a number of years ago, I happened to be at the front and one of the stronger local Master's Riders (a former Canadian Master's Champion), made a jump and I just went with him. We suddenly had a 50m and growing lead. When the lead got out to about 100+m, he eased off a bit and dropped back beside me, and said to me we need to go all-in for about 5 min. I said, Sure, and I'll do what I can. We did this, with me taking much shorter pulls, but we put the field out-of site and then with me ready to explode we eased off a bit, and rode tempo from that point over the final 10Km to the finish line where I was completely beaten in the sprint to the line but happy and grateful for finishing in 2nd place - and beating many guys in the main field who were much stronger than me . . . that's road racing! :)


Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog
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Re: Crit racing tips needed [Fleck] [ In reply to ]
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Yep; that's the beauty of road racing. The whole poker on wheels analogy is apt, not only b/c of the split second decisions on risks to take but also the issue of resource management
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Re: Crit racing tips needed [Jason N] [ In reply to ]
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Riding a road race while monitoring your power and planning strategy around power is probably the worst way to do it.


Agreed - again something that newbies tend to get caught up in. If it's all-in, and you are at the back of the group, or a larger breakaway group, forget about power, heart-rate, numbers or anything - you have one goal, no matter what, stay on that back wheel, and not get dropped. Why - because if it's at the back of the main group, your day is done right there! :)


Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog
Last edited by: Fleck: Feb 13, 18 10:30
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Re: Crit racing tips needed [Fleck] [ In reply to ]
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I've got fairly limited road racing experience, but have found that the best results are when the racing is really easy except that hard parts. The hard parts are really f'ing hard.

It takes a very fit dude to run away from the pack in the 5s, we are dum and chase anything...

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Re: Crit racing tips needed [Jason N] [ In reply to ]
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Jason N wrote:
Super D wrote:


One of the things I learned was that I needed some rationale for when to start a sprint or other hard effort, regardless of what other people were doing, just based on my own capabilities. I needed to have some strategy, not just ride reacting to what everyone else was doing and letting others dictate my race. This is where training with power became a very useful learning tool and the info fueled race strategy. If you can train with power, you'll learn a lot about yourself, and it can provide some very helpful foundation for your race plan.


I would very much agree that you need some type of rationale for when to start a sprint or other hard effort.

I would disagree that rationale is "regardless of what other people were doing" or "not just ride reacting to what everyone else was doing"

Road racing is not about how much effort you put out, or how fast you finish the race. It's about finishing ahead of other people...best case, ahead of everyone. To accomplish that, you very much have to react to what everyone else is doing, and plan your moves accordingly to create the best opportunity for a gap. Riding a road race while monitoring your power and planning strategy around power is probably the worst way to do it.

Training with power helps build your fitness, and can help you train for certain moments on your own when you don't have a fast group ride available to you. But what you actually do in a race, at that moment in time, usually has nothing to do with a power strategy. You build that type of instinct by racing more often. Riding your local world's group ride on a regular basis.

I've made winning moves that are totally unconventional. Starting my sprint from around 30 seconds out instead of my bread and butter of about 12 seconds where I have the most pop in my power curve. It just depends on how any move will translate to creating a gap and situational odds of how the field will react. Very rarely will you know exactly how any move you make will turn out. A lot depends on luck as well. But the starting point of any decision to make a move always has to do with how the others around you are currently riding and where you are in relation to them...in terms of position, fitness, and fatigue levels.



I did a really poor job of sharing my thought, sorry about that. I suck at brevity sometimes, losing context. In the words of Steve Martin, “Some people have a way with words, and others, oh…not have way.” :D






I didn't mean to imply that racing while monitoring power is the path to success, nor that racing with power is more important than race craft, team work, racing instincts or peloton acumen developed through experience, and understand that luck is a factor as well as other variables. I shared that power was a useful learning tool and the info fueled race strategy (for me), and it can provide some very helpful foundation for race planning. That was the core of what I was trying to convey.

I used to race cars and endurance go-karts in a previous life prior to cycling, and understanding the power, gearing, handling, braking and other physical capacities of the vehicle through practice, combined with instincts, traffic management, aerodynamics and drafting, teamwork if that was a factor, recognizing temperament, habits and skills of other racers, course conditions, tires, spring rates and many other factors all go into the mix of race strategy (and that strategy can start pre-race and then evolves and is re-shaped as the race unfolds). Now as a relative newbie in bike racing, I see related elements; some factors are mechanical or physical capacities, and those are taken into account when strategizing pre- and during the race, and then getting into a good flow using instinct and drawing upon experience, and adding some calculated opportunistic risks taken at speed without pre-planning are all part of the moving chess game (which is great fun!). I believe this is all more or less in the mix of what you're describing. You're very experienced in bike racing and have much to draw upon instinctively; I’m not, so I’ve got eyes wide open to learn new things on the fly, and am continually building fundamental understanding and adding to the small but developing experience log. There’s no substitute for experience, as they say.

For me, understanding power capacities helps as one of many factors in formulating a basic strategy, so I'm working a plan A or a plan B, instead of just reacting to someone else's actions and not understanding the strengths I may be able to exploit, why, where and when during the race. I personally don't operate well without some sort of a plan, or plans, based on fundamental strategy. This doesn't mean plans can always turn out, nor that they can be perfect or even close to what was originally intended before the race. They're just a foundation to work with and learn from during (and after) the race, experiments, and sometimes the tactics in the experiment can lead to a good position, and maybe even a good result.

I made a race plan for myself a couple of years ago including lots of factors, course analysis, and positioning strategy to leverage power at the end—if that position could be attained. I worked my plan during the race, made continual adjustments along the way, and when it somehow led to the position I was wanting as we headed toward the last hill before the finish, I had the confidence to hit the gas a certain distance out, knowing I could hold power (because I’d learned about it with my power meter and training previously). I think I might've glanced at power on the Garmin maybe twice during the race, no more. There were so many factors, traffic management, drafting, luck, some teamwork, managing a bully who kept putting his shoulder into me pushing me toward the outside of hairpins, resting in the pack when I needed to save energy, responding to fake attacks hidden from others who wanted to see who was a threat, covering gaps, helping others who’d helped me, etc. In the end, I started my sprint at a much different distance out than in any race before, influenced by what I’d learned about power in training. Without getting in the position to do it, there would’ve been no way to execute. Without understanding capacity for power and duration, I wouldn’t have known where and when to exploit it. Power was just part of the mix that went into pre-race planning, and eventually led to a good race day.
Last edited by: Super D: Feb 13, 18 11:08
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Re: Crit racing tips needed [Fleck] [ In reply to ]
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I pay a little bit of attention to it but mostly collect it for looking at after the fact.

Couple times that I've deliberately used it (debatable whether its a good idea) to inform decisions. Faux tempo on a climb (ie, getting on the front for a climb and riding as hard as I want to for the climb (gives some space to fall back if it does start surging, and if it's not an obviously critical climb sometimes the climbers just sit in). Another is just keeping a lap NP going for the race; kinda useful on the local weekly circuit race. The NP for the race is usually within a fairly small range (280ish) and gives me a bit of an (somewhat) objective measure of how hard the race has been. Not hugely useful, but sometimes nice to know.


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Re: Crit racing tips needed [Super D] [ In reply to ]
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You mentioned instincts - I think at the super-elite level a lot of comes down to that in bike racing

A great video to watch is the famous "missing kilometers" from the 2017 UCI World Road Race Championships where Peter Sagan, won a third World Road Race Championships in a row.

https://www.youtube.com/...S2rw1G95u8&t=16s

The ebbing and flowing if the racing over the final 4km - the various attacks and counter attacks. Sagan, picks one wheel different than he did, or choose to chase down or not chase down, one little micro-break, and he does not win the race. In the moment, after 5 1/2 hours of hard racing, and now well over the red-line, what else is driving your decision making other than a gut call and some instincts - so many variables with bike road racing. It's a bit mind boggling. It's amazing that guys like Sagan are as consistently up there and a factor.

Sure he took some chances and had some luck, but as they say, you have to make your own luck, and he had to be at the right place at the right time, several times to take advantage of all this


Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog
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Re: Crit racing tips needed [Fleck] [ In reply to ]
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Fleck wrote:
You mentioned instincts - I think at the super-elite level a lot of comes down to that in bike racing

A great video to watch is the famous "missing kilometers" from the 2017 UCI World Road Race Championships where Peter Sagan, won a third World Road Race Championships in a row.

https://www.youtube.com/...S2rw1G95u8&t=16s

The ebbing and flowing if the racing over the final 4km - the various attacks and counter attacks. Sagan, picks one wheel different than he did, or choose to chase down or not chase down, one little micro-break, and he does not win the race. In the moment, after 5 1/2 hours of hard racing, and now well over the red-line, what else is driving your decision making other than a gut call and some instincts - so many variables with bike road racing. It's a bit mind boggling. It's amazing that guys like Sagan are as consistently up there and a factor.

Sure he took some chances and had some luck, but as they say, you have to make your own luck, and he had to be at the right place at the right time, several times to take advantage of all this

I think you're talking to me, not positive, I did mention instincts a few times. :)

I've been following Sagan for several years. You're right, at that level, instincts are a very large factor, and I think his biggest asset. He's not the strongest guy in the peloton (although, being an accomplished sprinter, the guy can still hang with climbers on breaks in the mountain stages, holy heck is that amazing to see!), but he is so tuned in to his instincts that he can surf wheels and competing teams know it's coming, but still they cannot stop him. He's just that good, moves, reacts and anticipates that smoothly, quickly, precisely, and from the aerial shots, it's like a genius ballet of finesse bike handling to behold. Reminds me of watching Gille Villeneuve in F1 as a child. Riding on the ragged edge, passing so tight to get the win, but smearing the moves together like liquid and making it look easy. Of course Villeneuve banged wheels, a bit more rough than Sagan, thank goodness. :D

I took my son to see his second pro bike race here in San Diego at the Tour of CA (the first was years previous here, when Lance was still a pro and hadn't yet ruined his legacy), and we were 20 yards from the finish of stage 1. Sagan made his move right in front of us after surfing wheels up that final straight. So thrilling to see him work through traffic in-person, with everyone banging loudly on the banners and yelling at the top of our lungs. What a day.
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Re: Crit racing tips needed [Fleck] [ In reply to ]
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People that can read and react to races like that are invaluable to teams... Say what you will about Chris Horner, but if you look back to his stint on the Continental Circuit between his stints over in Europe, he was always in the action, even on flat races where he had no business being in the action, because he could read a race... In fact several teams would have a dedicated role for one rider to watch Horner...

As a cheap substitute, you get some of the strong teams trying to manhandle the races, which in some cases they can pull off, but run into trouble as soon as a race becomes less organized. USPS and Sky race very much this way, but one guy crashing out, and all of a sudden, the rest of their team save for one rider miss the time cut... Contrast that to QuickStep in the classics, even if they don't always win, they are always there, and with a number of riders... Not from manhandling the races, but from thinking 3 moves ahead to ensure that they have chips in play when the race hits the fan...

Sagan is a master at reading the races and executing, which is even more impressive, given the limited support that he gets from his team.

But you only develop that skill from experience, which includes making a lot of mistakes... As I noted earlier in this thread, the key to winning bike races is knowing how good you're not, more so than knowing how good you are... You can avoid making a lot of those wasteful efforts by honestly reflecting on the possibility, and whether you are actually good enough to pull it off...
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Re: Crit racing tips needed [Trauma] [ In reply to ]
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Trauma wrote:
People that can read and react to races like that are invaluable to teams... Say what you will about Chris Horner, but if you look back to his stint on the Continental Circuit between his stints over in Europe, he was always in the action, even on flat races where he had no business being in the action, because he could read a race... In fact several teams would have a dedicated role for one rider to watch Horner...

As a cheap substitute, you get some of the strong teams trying to manhandle the races, which in some cases they can pull off, but run into trouble as soon as a race becomes less organized. USPS and Sky race very much this way, but one guy crashing out, and all of a sudden, the rest of their team save for one rider miss the time cut... Contrast that to QuickStep in the classics, even if they don't always win, they are always there, and with a number of riders... Not from manhandling the races, but from thinking 3 moves ahead to ensure that they have chips in play when the race hits the fan...

Sagan is a master at reading the races and executing, which is even more impressive, given the limited support that he gets from his team.

But you only develop that skill from experience, which includes making a lot of mistakes... As I noted earlier in this thread, the key to winning bike races is knowing how good you're not, more so than knowing how good you are... You can avoid making a lot of those wasteful efforts by honestly reflecting on the possibility, and whether you are actually good enough to pull it off...

Very good point. this is important, b/c it drives home the notion that matches should be conserved and not wastefully spent. Side blasting, riding on the windward side, not being in a good position at choke points (including leading up to a hill or a windy section), etc all cost energy, and they will all reduce the size of the match when one really needs to throw down.
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Re: Crit racing tips needed [Alaric83] [ In reply to ]
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Definitely agree with what you do and basically do the same for crits. My Garmin screen only has elapsed time, heart rate, and three second average power. If I'm looking down at my computer its more than likely to glance at the time to see where we're at in the crit. The heart rate and power are there for if I happen to make the break so I can control myself a little bit. Road racing is a bit different. I have time, heart rate, three second power, distance, and gearing (yeah I know its odd, but I've become accustomed to knowing it). Then I have a secondary screen that has a five mile lap showing: lap time, lap average speed, heart rate, and lap distance. Pretty minimal in my mind because as Steve mentions in the post below yours is that racing seems to be more about instincts and knowing when to go and who to go with and more importantly not to go with.
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Re: Crit racing tips needed [Super D] [ In reply to ]
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Not to mention having the most insane bike handling skills and nose for finish line... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OXQWRe6ru8g ***

**Don't try this in your local crit
Last edited by: Carl Spackler: Feb 14, 18 12:12
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Re: Crit racing tips needed [echappist] [ In reply to ]
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echappist wrote:
Trauma wrote:
People that can read and react to races like that are invaluable to teams... Say what you will about Chris Horner, but if you look back to his stint on the Continental Circuit between his stints over in Europe, he was always in the action, even on flat races where he had no business being in the action, because he could read a race... In fact several teams would have a dedicated role for one rider to watch Horner... .

Can't stand the guy, but I will admit to having admired watching him at Clarendon 2(?) years ago and it was a clinic on positioning and smooth riding. He wasn't in the break or going to win it, but great pack riding.
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Re: Crit racing tips needed [Fleck] [ In reply to ]
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Fleck wrote:
Yes you need great fitness to be a bike racer, but it's all about keeping as much of that in reserve as you can, and then at the right movement (and that moment will be different in almost every race you do), committing FULLY to what you have. It's also important to note that this will fail spectacularly more times than it will be "successful" - and that's true right on through the ranks from Cat-5's to Pros! It's a merciless, ruthless sport!

Bolded for importance. If you've never had to limp it home in the granny gears on a training ride, or gotten dropped on a group ride........probably not trying hard enough.

I don't think some people train or ride at that bleeding edge very often or at all. I say some, because I don't know how many.

I've seen better all out efforts on some no-drop brewery group rides from people on city bikes than I've seen on the "drop and regroup" hills on an A-group ride.

I've popped a few times on a ride alone or with a group. It'll probably happen again soon as I move up to some A+ rides. So long as I have my map to get home. Lol.
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Re: Crit racing tips needed [McNulty] [ In reply to ]
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McNulty wrote:

Can't stand the guy, but I will admit to having admired watching him at Clarendon 2(?) years ago and it was a clinic on positioning and smooth riding. He wasn't in the break or going to win it, but great pack riding.


Humility in bike handling is important to advancing crit skills. I remember back when I thought I was a good bike handler, and now I know I sucked. And still suck, relative to the really good ones. Now I understand that there's just a level I'll never reach. I was wheel-sucking in a P12 crit with some really good riders, heading for the field sprint, and there are guys who just seemingly defy physics. I knew my place, and conceded position to those who understand how to operate at that level. Seeing gaps before they open, winnowing through, making just enough contact to show aggression and intent, but not enough to put anyone competent in harm's way. I tap out at some point. Put me in nice masters race, thanks.
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