folowing

Are you allowing yourself coffee before your morning workout? I know there is some research to suggest coffee can kick you out of a fasted state but not sure if you are taking it to that extreme. I ask because I train almost exclusively in a fasted state and find a good cup of coffee does the trick. I bring the coffee pool side and sip during rest periods.

I did it for a long time before I started training, and always felt great. It was also a pretty easy way to get very lean.

There's no way I could do it while training, though, and neither do I particularly see the point of doing it.

If you feel good and strong training fasted and it doesn't impact you recover, great. But if not, what's the point? At least for me, triathlon is about performance and not aesthetics. Lots of easier ways to diet than endurance training on limited calories (at least for me).

Most I do is 16 hours fasted [2pm-8AM] once a week [allowing water and caffeine, though, can't skimp on caffeine].

I have no trouble getting thorugh the first workout of the day, but if I bike fasted, then eat, and try to swim at lunch, I'm wasted. I'm pretty much ready to concede that I'll only be working out once the day I come off the fast. I don't think there is any way I could do 16:8 daily.

I have been doing the 8/16 IF for a couple months now. for me, it got easier over time and realized I was over eating carbs by quite a bit before. but I just have coffee with some mct oil powder before I ride and amino acid mix in my water bottle on the bike and can go for a couple hours without thinking about eating.

I do a 10 hour eating window each day. Took me two solid weeks to get used to hard trainer rides but you eventually are able to do it.

One thing to point out is that you only need to do it 5 days per week to get all the benefits. Caffeine / anything that affects your metabolism kicks you out of fasted state. Also, the goal is a reduced eating window, not reduced eating, so make sure you still have the same number of calories each day, just consumed in a shorter period of time.

Everything I have watched and read says black coffee is ok. I sip one a 16 oz coffee all through out the first half of the day.

My runs are fine fasted, although I have not tried speedwork or intervals. But my swim time is down from 2:04/100yds to 2:07/100yds over a 2500yard set. I went from horribly slow to even more horribly slow.

Dr. Rhonda Patrick cites studies showing that caffeine will kick you out of fasting.

I do 16:8, 3 or 4 days a week. I just plan my high intensity training around the unrestricted eating days when I can.

Over all though I would say you just get used to it. I do tend to eat a much higher % of fat in my diet and I'm not very hungry outside of the feeding window. I do have coffee in the AM with heavy cream.

Neither watched the video nor a nutrition expert so I‘m happy to be corrected:
From my understanding our human body constantly metabolises fat out of our adipose tissue during a fasted state (fasted state can also be ca. 2 hours(?) after a meal until your next). The caffeine triggers/increases the effect of lipids breakdown (wikipedia:
Caffeine is metabolized in the liver by the cytochrome P450 oxidase enzyme system, in particular, by the CYP1A2 isozyme, into three dimethylxanthines,[148] each of which has its own effects on the body:

Paraxanthine (84%): Increases lipolysis, leading to elevated glycerol and free fatty acid levels in blood plasma.

Lipolysis /lɪˈpɒlɪsɪs/ is the breakdown of lipids and involves hydrolysis of triglycerides into glycerol and free fatty acids. Predominantly occurring in adipose tissue, lipolysis is used to mobilize stored energy during fasting or exercise. )


The delta between normal fat metabolism during fasted states vs. caffeine induced fat metabolism during fasted state could be defined as a break of fasting?

The delta between normal fat metabolism during fasted states vs. caffeine induced fat metabolism during fasted state could be defined as a break of fasting? ///

Glad to see this older thread, as I missed it the first time. And apparently since there there have been many other threads on this topic, even in the lavender room!! I'm coming up on 5 months of 18 to 23 hours a day of IF, only on black coffee, and I train every day fasted for up to 1 hour 45. I don't know what the effect of the coffee has, but to me it is essential to just have something while the whole family eats around me, and I just love coffee. I have seen people say both things, it breaks the fast, it does not break the fast, so not sure anyone knows for sure, but one side is right.

But really, I'm not trying to get to ketosis or anything like that, but to lose some weight, burn fat better and more efficiently, and overall health. SO far I have hit all those goals, and before and after blood tests confirm that just a couple months made significant changes. This week I hit a 20 year low on weight, just chipping a couple tenths here and there, but trend has been down since I started. Guessing that it is body fat being lost too, take pains not to be dehydrated, and take salt caps in the morning to get through my workouts..

And as to workouts, I did a super hard hour swim yesterday, and felt great at the end and could have kept going. Once of these days when I have ridden more, it would be a fun experiment to see if I could ride 2 to 3 hours and still feel great. I have done 2 races in this time and broke the fast, but honestly I did not feel as good in them as I do daily in my workouts, but just too afraid to go race fasted. But I'm leaning towards that experiment one day..

Good stuff folks, seems like most are having very positive experiences. I have 3 friends who also started this, and all love it too. Now thinking about SH's multi day fast over the the LR, that could be the next big experiment..

I found that with 16:8 it really worked for my body composition

However my appetite decreased as well (perhaps stomach shrinking?)

Great for fat loss but I wasn’t eating enough during my eating window and my morning workouts would suffer. Once I realized this and ate more (carbs particularly) everything was better and I maintained my weight

So my suggestion would be, don’t change anything and eat more during your eating period

I intermittent fast everyday, it's called sleeping.

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Washed up footy player turned Triathlete.

I intermittent fast everyday, it's called sleeping.

SO we can put you down for a 14 hour eating window, thanks for that input, very helpful..

I'm in the same boat as several people here and agree with some of the comments (have been fasting 16 hours, give or take, several days a week, early morning workouts with some intensity are not a problem, I rarely go over an hour in the morning though).

What I wanted to comment on is racing in a fasted state. I haven't done it. But over the last month or so I've done two races (a sprint tri and a 5K - staple distances that I do often). In both, I ate less than my usual breakfast in the past - I only had some coffee and a light granola bar. This wasn't so much intentional as it was because I was in a rush.

In both I felt awful and was slower than usual. For the 5K I was able to do a proper warm up, but not for the tri. I thought initially that the warm up was the culprit, or maybe I'm losing fitness with age (just turned 48). But I'm also wondering if lack of calories at beginning of race were a factor. I have some other races in the next few weeks and I'll make it a point to have a proper breakfast and see how it goes.

I tired this for a few months. 16:8. it just didn't work for me. I lost some weight but my workouts suffered. I ended up going back to eating when I wanted and with the improved performance in my workouts I found that made up for the hours I lost not eating while fasting and lost weight more rapidly without the fast. I will say if you follow what I would call is my normal eating hours I really do not eat breakfast till around 10AM and I try to not eat after 9. which is an 11 hour eating window. I just do not see the significance for myself of restraining from eating an additional three hours when it caused my workouts to suffer. The fasting itself was not difficult mostly the motivation for and during workouts suffered in my experience.

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2019 T-Rex Tri Series

But I'm also wondering if lack of calories at beginning of race were a factor. I have some other races in the next few weeks and I'll make it a point to have a proper breakfast and see how it goes. //

That is how I felt in my races too, but I had the opposite thought that it was not calories, but that I was interrupting my routine by eating. I feel so great virtually everyday in training, so I'm not sure more calories is my answer. Of course my longest race was about an hour, so a time I do everyday fasted without incident. For sure if I were to go 1 1/2 to 2+ I would eat. Let me know how it goes for you, maybe what I eat or when is also the problem, or like you say, just being an old man without the fitness to go as fast as my brain wants to!!!

I have tried 16/8 and found it quite effective. However, i have started training in the morning (mostly running) before work and, while doing 16/8, I only ate during a 13:00 to 21:00 window. Would it be detrimental if i ran in the morning and didn't break my fast till 13:00? I do not really want to lose any muscle mass and have always read that you should refuel as quickly as possible after a workout.

But really, I'm not trying to get to ketosis or anything like that, but to lose some weight, burn fat better and more efficiently, and overall health. SO far I have hit all those goals, and before and after blood tests confirm that just a couple months made significant changes.

Same boat here. I don‘t want to get into ketosis nor do I do some relegious definitoon on fasting. Just would liketo use the off season to get my fat metabolism improved, shed some body fat while focusing on strength training before I go back to structured triathlon training.

I‘m on 18/6 with an eating window between noon and 6 pm. In the 18 hours I like to have my body storages to contribute to my energy expenditure.

Would it be detrimental if i ran in the morning and didn't break my fast till 13:00? //

Well in my case, I never eat right after my workouts, usually a couple to 4 or 5 hours even before eating. I feel like I have supercharged the fast by burning an extra 1000 calories, so want to keep it going. I'm not really hungry either. Ya, we were all told you should eat right after a workout to replenish, I'm thinking now that is very specific to certain people, not everyone. Now have to preface, not doing ironman training, that is a completely different person than me.


So for sure my stomach has shrunk, so I get full faster, and I definitely burn fat better. Eating late after a workout seems to refuel me fine, as the next day there are no issues. But I also have a fat reserve I'm trying to burn though(not my life reserve, the love handle reserves), so perhaps if you are at goal weight already, your situation will be different. I should be there soon, so it will be interesting if I have that wonderful problem of keeping weight on!!!

Also forgot to add, don't think your body is going to eat your muscle mass as long as you have fat reserves. Even people with 3% body fat have huge reserves, so I wouldnt worry about that so much. Just take a look at the pros racing today, so lean and yet training 6+ hours a day. Of course they are not fasting, but burning fat all the time at those low%'s, no way to keep up while training those long days..

Crazy how this thread came back up. As the thread starter, I thought I would chime back in having just done my 1st IM.

During training, I rarely used any fuel. I would do 4+ hour Trainerroad workouts with no fuel. Toward the end of the training I started taking nutrition in order to prepare for race day.

During race day, I had planned on being on the bike 6:30. I planned on eating 2100 calories. I ended up only taking in 1400 calories. I just didnt need it & my tummy was feeling weird. On the run I did 3 more gels between mile 1 and 13 but stull felt like I was going to get diarrhea. So, I switched to pretzels and cliff bars at aid stations starting around mile 16 and felt great with the solid food. Finished the bike/run in 11:30.

don‘t make me feel guilty! just did a google search on „intermittent fasting 16/8 for triathletes“. this came up as a result and I facepalmed why I didn‘t think to come here im the first place.

My big question is if you train on lower calories (say, 200 per hour), how much trouble to people truly have upping the calories on race day? Every time I try to "train up" my calorie intake on the bike to say 300+ cals, my stomach says no. So if I'm doing great in training on just 200, am I already fat burning enough that I don't need to try to up it during an Ironman?

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Zen and the Art of Triathlon. Strava Workout Log
Interviews with Chris McCormack, Helle Frederikson, Angela Naeth, and many more.
http://www.zentriathlon.com

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/...articles/PMC5371619/

I also like coffee with heavy cream in the morning. But doing that would break a 16:8 fast. Is there any benefit to a 16:8 fast if coffee and cream are included in the 16 hour fasting window?

Michael

I also like coffee with heavy cream in the morning. But doing that would break a 16:8 fast. Is there any benefit to a 16:8 fast if coffee and cream are included in the 16 hour fasting window? //


I have heard some of the proponents say that some low fat milk is probably ok in the coffee. But that is a very good question, I had the same one about my salt chews I take between workouts during the fast. They have about 5 calories, I take about 3 in a 2 hour period. Did I break the fast, and what does that mean exactly? I mean you put in a few calories, but they are gone almost immediately, or at least 15 calories are. So your body still has to be burning fuel from some store, did breaking the fast change that tank it draws one, if so, which one??


I think there is a lot unknown about this fasting regime, a lot of guessing by the experts, and of course just some common sense need be applied.

It's a good white paper, but you can't trust it's sugar recommendations completely when in the fine print it says... "This article was published in a supplement supported by the Gatorade Sports Science Institute (GSSI), a division of PepsiCo." I'm positive it's valid for high-carbers, but not so sure about people that burn a greater ratio of fat.

I have been doing intermittent fasting for a couple of years. it does take while to get used to it. I now have a black coffee and an amino acids drink I do a 60-90 minute run, 60 minute swim or 60 minute trainer road workout before breakfast. I can highly recommend this approach.

That is funny. The same thing happened to me. A couple of weeks ago I read an article about Alex Smith and his intermittent fasting. I searched for intermittent fasting on Google and found this thread. I had saved the page on my phone because I eventually wanted to comment, reviving the thread, and now someone else has done so already.

I have been toying with the idea of trying a 16:8 intermittent fasting during the upcoming period of less intense training with the goal of losing a few pounds (instead of gaining weight) and more importantly to teach my body to burn more fat ahead of some long course racing next season. I would return to normal eating habits once my training intensity picks up in February. A few questions that I had were the following:

- With my goals in mind, should the fasting be everyday or is a few days a week sufficient?
- If I always train in the morning, is the proper eating window still 12pm - 8pm?
- Will intermittent fasting over the next couple of months still provide a benefit for long course racing during the second half of 2019?
- I would think that intermittent fasting would have the greatest benefit during lower intensity, longer duration training. Does that make sense?

I intermittent fast everyday, it's called sleeping.

SO we can put you down for a 14 hour eating window, thanks for that input, very helpful..

I know his response was intended to be sarcastic, but I was thinking the same thing. I eat dinner, maybe snack, and then sleep and work out in the morning with only water or diet soda (no caffeine) to hydrate in the morning. If I procrastinate my workout, it will be upwards of 10-12 hours from when I ate the night before to when I have my post-workout fruit shake. Is that considered fasting? I have never been able to tolerate food in my stomach before working out and my single-best Half-IM effort was on about 40 oz of water and maybe 200 calories early in the bike. My best marathon 20 years ago was very similar; meal the day before, not sure I took anything but a bit of water during the race. Who knows? Maybe it has made me stay skinny all these years.
If I put anything in my stomach for less than 8 hours before a race, I know it will come back to me. Just a couple of weeks ago I ate dinner around 8 pm and then had a s'more around the campfire at 9ish. Sure enough, on the run my stomach started to protest. I have often wondered my inability to digest was just a personal thing or a function of the fact that I rarely eat anything before or during workouts. It has never really been an issue except for the few races/rides I have attempted that were longer than two to three hours.

Is that considered fasting?//

Short answer, yes, it is a 10 to 12 hour fast. Now is that enough to do what folks doing longer fasts are looking for, probably not. If it were, then why would we need longer fasts? My own common sense on this, is that each additional hour is like the earthquake measuring system or altitude affects on our bodies. It becomes exponential, and hour after hour gets more and more benefit. You sound like you are at a very low weight and have stomach issues, so it is very possible that IF is not something you need, or would benefit from.


Others can chime in, I only know what I have read and of course my own results, along with all my friends who are now doing IF..

Agreed.

My understanding is that somewhere between 6 to 12 hours since your last calorie ingestion, depending on the individual, you will have moved to a primarily fat burning state and that beyond that 12 hour mark for most everyone it is as you stated - an enhanced fat burn (ketosis?). For some, those benefits will have begun to accrue after the 6 hour mark, but 12 hours seems to be the "magic" number where pretty much everyone can expect to be in that state.

Also, I drink coffee with low fat creamer and Splenda in the mornings and it doesn't seem to have had a negative effect on my results.

I'm down right at 20 lbs. since I began IF in mid-August, and if anything, my workouts have improved. I do "16:8" most days, but usually have 1 or 2 "18:6" or even "20:4" days per week, plus 1 minor "cheat" day per week and it seems that about every 3rd or 4th week I'll splurge with an "anything goes" day.

On the "16:8" days, I have no problem doing my first workout fasted, but if my fast goes beyond 16 hrs. I need to get a few calories in before I work out.

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Happy trails,
Chris

N=1

Did intermittent fasting for 5 years 18:6. 1 weak cup of Black coffee with stevia in AM

Did 2 olympics while fasted felt fine no issues

No longer do any fasting. Can’t really remember why I stopped. I’m actually leaner, but could be from other things most likely

now but if I go a couple hours, without eating I don’t feel as good. Wake up very hungry