Two ironmans messed up by SRAM Etap in less than one month. BEWARE!

Nov 13, 17 8:49

Post #1 of 117 Views: 13358

One month ago while racing in Kona after 30 min into the ride my rear derailleur started shifting on its own going all the way down to the 11th cog, when trying to bring it up then the front derailleur will shift, it was all over the place! I fist stopped and swap the batteries and seemed the problem was fixed, 10 min later did it again. Stopped again and disconnected the cables from the blip box tried to clean the plugs and plugged them again, again that seemed to work. 10-15min later happend again! Long story short I ended up getting off the bike 17 times in total loosing over 20min on the bike and completely messing up my race in Kona.

After the race I tried contacting SRAM directy, to my surprise there was no way of contacting them, had to be through a distributor /mechanic. I went see my local mechanic and explained him everything with all details, I even send him my garmin file so he or the guys from sram could see the 17 times I had stopped. Few days later they came back saying that the problem was on the rear derailleur which didn't make sense to me, it clearly looked like a short in the blip box connection but when the mechanic asked sram they replied saying they were the experts and they knew what they're doing so I trusted them, they sent a new rear derailleur and seemed to work fine.

After my bad experience in kona I decided to get "back on the horse" and race ironman los cabos yesterday. I was having a really good race, I was riding in second place and suddenly after 120k out no where the same issue from kona came back but this time it got stuck in the 54/11,i tried everything to fix it, I even replaced the battery from the blip box (I always carry a spare 2032 battery) and nothing worked. I lost 40min and had to finish my ride riding in a single speed (IM Los Cabos is not particularly flat!).

I still managed to finish 7th in my AG but far from a Kona slot which was the objective. It's hard to explain how frustrated I am, and all because of SRAM negligence!

If you are considering changing to Etap think it twice, and if you already race with it just be aware this could happen to you any time.

I hoping I can send back all my etap back and at least I want a clear explanation of what's happening and not just replacing a part thinking that would solve the problem which it clearly didn't work the first time!

Re: Two ironmans messed up by SRAM Etap in less than one month. BEWARE! [RP29] [ In reply to ]

Nov 13, 17 8:55

Post #2 of 117 Views: 13334

have you gotten the unit wet at all? Any sweat or liquids on the connectors? Any issues leading up to this happening?

Make Inside Out Sports your next online tri shop! http://www.insideoutsports.com/

Re: Two ironmans messed up by SRAM Etap in less than one month. BEWARE! [RP29] [ In reply to ]

Nov 13, 17 9:07

Post #3 of 117 Views: 13267

It sounds like you have a bad blip. I have 2 go bad on me. Still love it tho. Nothing is going to work perfectly all the time every time

Re: Two ironmans messed up by SRAM Etap in less than one month. BEWARE! [RP29] [ In reply to ]

Nov 13, 17 9:11

Post #4 of 117 Views: 13246

These are the kind of stories that want me to stay mechanical. Since electronic does not make anyone faster, just lighter in the pocket book, ......

Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

Boom Nutrition code 19F4Y3 $5 off 24 pack box | Bionic Runner | PowerCranks | Velotron | Spruzzamist

Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep

Re: Two ironmans messed up by SRAM Etap in less than one month. BEWARE! [danstu4] [ In reply to ]

Nov 13, 17 9:11

Post #5 of 117 Views: 13243

No, it's not a blip, after kona blips were working fine, it's something related with the blip box water and/or heat. Never caused my problem training only racing, both in very hot conditions.

Re: Two ironmans messed up by SRAM Etap in less than one month. BEWARE! [h2ofun] [ In reply to ]

Nov 13, 17 9:13

Post #6 of 117 Views: 13224

h2ofun wrote:

These are the kind of stories that want me to stay mechanical. Since electronic does not make anyone faster, just lighter in the pocket book, ......

Agreed. I'm still riding 10 speed Ultegra haha. Electronic is cool but it won't make me faster.

Make Inside Out Sports your next online tri shop! http://www.insideoutsports.com/

Re: Two ironmans messed up by SRAM Etap in less than one month. BEWARE! [BryanD] [ In reply to ]

Nov 13, 17 9:16

Post #7 of 117 Views: 13200

In kona it rained the night before so the unit got wet. Yesterday in cabo most likely there was sweat and water spilling over the blip box but the blip box is made to resist sweat spills, etc. I lived and trained in Hong Kong where it's extremely hot and humid trained under a lot of rain and never had an issue.

Re: Two ironmans messed up by SRAM Etap in less than one month. BEWARE! [RP29] [ In reply to ]

Nov 13, 17 9:26

Post #8 of 117 Views: 13134

It's possible than that water got into the unit and is causing issues.

Make Inside Out Sports your next online tri shop! http://www.insideoutsports.com/

Re: Two ironmans messed up by SRAM Etap in less than one month. BEWARE! [RP29] [ In reply to ]

Nov 13, 17 9:27

Post #9 of 117 Views: 13127

I am also in the camp of a bad blip. It sounds like a wire was crushed somewhere along the way in assembly and disassembly. I managed to crunch one along the way and had to replace it.

To the haters, once you go with electronic, you'll never go back. I am transitioning the last of my bikes in a few weeks. It is just so much better to shift.

Re: Two ironmans messed up by SRAM Etap in less than one month. BEWARE! [BryanD] [ In reply to ]

Nov 13, 17 9:28

Post #10 of 117 Views: 13113

BryanD wrote:

It's possible than that water got into the unit and is causing issues.

Just more reasons to really ask is it worth the cool factor and cost, when it gives zero increase in speed. If one wants to get faster, sure are ways to spend money that will do this.

Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

Boom Nutrition code 19F4Y3 $5 off 24 pack box | Bionic Runner | PowerCranks | Velotron | Spruzzamist

Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep

Re: Two ironmans messed up by SRAM Etap in less than one month. BEWARE! [RP29] [ In reply to ]

Nov 13, 17 9:30

Post #11 of 117 Views: 13100

Truly sorry for your misfortune. However, so far after thousands of shifts in all kinds of weather mine has been flawless.

Re: Two ironmans messed up by SRAM Etap in less than one month. BEWARE! [h2ofun] [ In reply to ]

Nov 13, 17 9:33

Post #12 of 117 Views: 13076

You can keep your mechanical shifting. I will never go back. I like it because you can shift while standing. I have had mechanical shifting go bad on me to.

Re: Two ironmans messed up by SRAM Etap in less than one month. BEWARE! [RP29] [ In reply to ]

Nov 13, 17 9:41

Post #13 of 117 Views: 13038

This has never happened with my 10 speed mechanical setup!

Re: Two ironmans messed up by SRAM Etap in less than one month. BEWARE! [RP29] [ In reply to ]

Nov 13, 17 9:45

Post #14 of 117 Views: 13010

RP29 wrote:

. It's hard to explain how frustrated I am, and all because of SRAM negligence!

You're justified to be frustrated. Accusing SRAM of "negligence" seems a bit of a stretch at this point, however. It was a misdiagnosis of an intermittent failure of a complex electronic system that left you inconvenienced, but not injured. Have some perspective.

"They're made of latex, not nitroglycerin"

Last edited by: gary p: Nov 13, 17 9:46

Re: Two ironmans messed up by SRAM Etap in less than one month. BEWARE! [BryanD] [ In reply to ]

Nov 13, 17 9:49

Post #15 of 117 Views: 12981

BryanD wrote:

h2ofun wrote:

These are the kind of stories that want me to stay mechanical. Since electronic does not make anyone faster, just lighter in the pocket book, ......

Agreed. I'm still riding 10 speed Ultegra haha. Electronic is cool but it won't make me faster.

While on a group ride this summer, a guy on Di2 hit a pothole and was stuck in his big ring the rest of the time.

Re: Two ironmans messed up by SRAM Etap in less than one month. BEWARE! [h2ofun] [ In reply to ]

Nov 13, 17 9:51

Post #16 of 117 Views: 12969

h2ofun wrote:

These are the kind of stories that want me to stay mechanical. Since electronic does not make anyone faster, just lighter in the pocket book, ......

For the record, myself, and multiple people I train with, have been in several races in heavy rain, using Di2, and never a single issue. Doesn't hurt that the di2 battery charge lasts several months.
I'll never go back to mechanical, I hate dealing with the cables, and I love being able to shift from the base bars. Does it make me faster? No, but neither does having a frameset that retails for over 4k, but I like that too.

Re: Two ironmans messed up by SRAM Etap in less than one month. BEWARE! [RP29] [ In reply to ]

Nov 13, 17 9:54

Post #17 of 117 Views: 12952

Do you train on that bike? Do you ride that bike a lot between races? And when you do, that problem is nonexistent?

The cause could be radio frequency environment at the races. Every bike passing by is transmitting ANT+ and/or Bluetooth. Sure they are supposed to be encoded signals at the application layer but what if the implementation is not completely reliable? Google Microsoft etc... with their thousands of engineers can't get this stuff straightened out. How is SRAM with a couple of engineers going to?

Re: Two ironmans messed up by SRAM Etap in less than one month. BEWARE! [Dilbert] [ In reply to ]

Nov 13, 17 9:59

Post #18 of 117 Views: 12924

Yes I do all my training and racing on the same bike and just happend while racing. I also mentioned the possibility of interference to the mechanic but he said that not possible. In kona that could've been a possibility with all the bikes around but in Cabos I was basically riding on my own when it happened.

Re: Two ironmans messed up by SRAM Etap in less than one month. BEWARE! [RP29] [ In reply to ]

Nov 13, 17 10:21

Post #19 of 117 Views: 12814

Sorry for the issues you have experienced. Really sucks.

That said, I wanted to get a little more info on your situation as I have been considering moving to electronic, but for my road bike and have done a lot of reading on etap.

Did you have blips located at both the aero bar extensions and near the brake levers? If yes, did you try disconnecting one set from the blip box to isolate one or the other during the time in the race(s) when you were having issues?

When you got stuck in the 54-11 gear, and nothing seemed to work anymore, did you try unplugging all of the blips from the blip box (or just removing the battery from the blip box), then using the function buttons on the derailleurs to get into an easier gear? This is what I would have tried to eliminate the blips and/or the blip box from the equation and at least be able to single speed it in a more appropriate gear (or get off the bike and change to an easier gear for a hill if needed).

One of the things that I liked about eTap in my research was that you could indeed shift the front and rear derailleurs manually if the battery for your blip box (or road shifters) died. So basically all you needed was one working derailleur battery to get you home in reasonable shape as compared to di2, where if the main battery dies, you're stuck in whatever gear you're in.

Hope you get this worked out. If I was SRAM, I would just send you an entire new kit. It seems like their stuff works reasonably well for others, and one of your pieces is just not working right. I wouldn't be messing around with a customer by changing out one part at a time to see if you'll get screwed again.

Re: Two ironmans messed up by SRAM Etap in less than one month. BEWARE! [RP29] [ In reply to ]

Nov 13, 17 10:30

Post #20 of 117 Views: 12754

What are some factors present in racing that aren't present in training? Bike is outside all night; water intrusion. Or there are 2000-3000 other bikes transmitting all around you. It's very likely to be one or the other.

Do you know an EE or a tech? Ask them to take apart components and look for signs of water intrusion. It is really obvious when you know what to look for. This:

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/...600/4wdmodule007.jpg

Re: Two ironmans messed up by SRAM Etap in less than one month. BEWARE! [RP29] [ In reply to ]

Nov 13, 17 10:50

Post #21 of 117 Views: 12625

If your bike has chainstays <405mm (like a Shiv) the ETap won't work satisfactorily
Mike

Re: Two ironmans messed up by SRAM Etap in less than one month. BEWARE! [h2ofun] [ In reply to ]

Nov 13, 17 11:07

Post #22 of 117 Views: 12543

If we asked everyone to post their issues over the years with mechanical shifters, there would plenty to discuss here. I certainly had issues now and again.

I was highly hesitant to spend the money but do love it and can make a decent argument that i save at least some time with quicker, easier shifts.

Didn’t you make a similar statement about neve wanting to leave 200mm cranks ;)

Re: Two ironmans messed up by SRAM Etap in less than one month. BEWARE! [h2ofun] [ In reply to ]

Nov 13, 17 11:28

Post #23 of 117 Views: 12444

Because mechanical drivetrains never break or come out adjustment? OK.

Don't drown. Don't crash. Don't walk.

Re: Two ironmans messed up by SRAM Etap in less than one month. BEWARE! [T3_Beer] [ In reply to ]

Nov 13, 17 11:31

Post #24 of 117 Views: 12420

T3_Beer wrote:

This has never happened with my 10 speed mechanic9al setup!

Ditto.

Re: Two ironmans messed up by SRAM Etap in less than one month. BEWARE! [SBRcanuck] [ In reply to ]

Nov 13, 17 12:36

Post #25 of 117 Views: 12221

I saw someone break a cable at the weekend and then they were stuck in the 11...

Re: Two ironmans messed up by SRAM Etap in less than one month. BEWARE! [danstu4] [ In reply to ]

Nov 13, 17 12:58

Post #26 of 117 Views: 6679

danstu4 wrote:

You can keep your mechanical shifting. I will never go back. I like it because you can shift while standing. I have had mechanical shifting go bad on me to.

How often do you need to shift while standing, either in a triathlon or while training for a triathlon? I can see some benefit if you are bike racing, but for triathlon...

----------------------------------
"Go yell at an M&M"

Re: Two ironmans messed up by SRAM Etap in less than one month. BEWARE! [klehner] [ In reply to ]

Nov 13, 17 13:08

Post #27 of 117 Views: 6665

I don't know about shifting while standing, but being able to shift while on the basebar would be nice and the ease of adjusting the di2 on my road bike is amazing. Plus the smoothness of the shifts is very noticeable

Re: Two ironmans messed up by SRAM Etap in less than one month. BEWARE! [RP29] [ In reply to ]

Nov 13, 17 13:11

Post #28 of 117 Views: 6656

Stories like this make me happy I stayed with a mechanical setup.

Re: Two ironmans messed up by SRAM Etap in less than one month. BEWARE! [klehner] [ In reply to ]

Nov 13, 17 13:32

Post #29 of 117 Views: 6621

klehner wrote:

danstu4 wrote:

You can keep your mechanical shifting. I will never go back. I like it because you can shift while standing. I have had mechanical shifting go bad on me to.

How often do you need to shift while standing, either in a triathlon or while training for a triathlon? I can see some benefit if you are bike racing, but for triathlon...

I cannot ever once in 20 years of racing standing and needing to shift. But I bet that makes one a lot faster, right. :)

Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

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Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep

Re: Two ironmans messed up by SRAM Etap in less than one month. BEWARE! [RP29] [ In reply to ]

Nov 13, 17 13:46

Post #30 of 117 Views: 6595

RP29 wrote:

Yes I do all my training and racing on the same bike and just happend while racing. I also mentioned the possibility of interference to the mechanic but he said that not possible. In kona that could've been a possibility with all the bikes around but in Cabos I was basically riding on my own when it happened.

I'm really sorry to hear about your issues. Both of these races represent large investments of training time and financial costs!

My guess is that SRAM management would be more interested in helping you out than the staff your LBS has managed to contact. SRAM personnel were at Kona and having a KQ'er ko'd with their premier component line is something that would/should concern them. They want to increase the use of eTap as Shimano is dominating the electronic shifting market. Ask your LBS to elevate the issue with SRAM and try contacting SRAM through social media channels. If you use LinkedIn in your profession, a quick search of SRAM public relations should provide another means of contact.

I have been using Shimano DI2 for years. Finding LBS wrenches with DI2 experience has always proved difficult, if not impossible. Diagnosing DI2 at the LBS just isn't available in my area and the only sure diagnosis for some issues typically requires swapping parts. Since the LBS doesn't stock DI2 this falls to the end user. With eTap being much newer to the market I assume this same situation is pretty common.

My wife was knocked out of a KQ attempt during the extreme weather one year in Whistler due to a (gen1) DI2 shifting failure. We were sure it was moisture related. It took some repeat issues later to discover it was actually a pinched wire at the aerobars and it only occurred intermittently. For your case, I'd recommend just swapping out the blipbox harness, etc. If this takes doing it at your own cost for now I'd rationalize that this is a much lower cost than lost race fees, travel, qualifying, etc.

Re: Two ironmans messed up by SRAM Etap in less than one month. BEWARE! [h2ofun] [ In reply to ]

Nov 13, 17 13:49

Post #31 of 117 Views: 6580

With the amount of sitting up you do, I would think you would need electronic.

Re: Two ironmans messed up by SRAM Etap in less than one month. BEWARE! [rs1852] [ In reply to ]

Nov 13, 17 13:53

Post #32 of 117 Views: 6571

rs1852 wrote:

With the amount of sitting up you do, I would think you would need electronic.

Re: Two ironmans messed up by SRAM Etap in less than one month. BEWARE! [rs1852] [ In reply to ]

Nov 13, 17 13:53

Post #33 of 117 Views: 6570

rs1852 wrote:

With the amount of sitting up you do, I would think you would need electronic.

Really, how do you know that?

Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

Boom Nutrition code 19F4Y3 $5 off 24 pack box | Bionic Runner | PowerCranks | Velotron | Spruzzamist

Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep

Re: Two ironmans messed up by SRAM Etap in less than one month. BEWARE! [BryanD] [ In reply to ]

Nov 13, 17 14:00

Post #34 of 117 Views: 6552

BryanD wrote:

h2ofun wrote:

These are the kind of stories that want me to stay mechanical. Since electronic does not make anyone faster, just lighter in the pocket book, ......

Agreed. I'm still riding 10 speed Ultegra haha. Electronic is cool but it won't make me faster.

Who are you, and what have you done with BryanD??

http://bikeblather.blogspot.com/

Re: Two ironmans messed up by SRAM Etap in less than one month. BEWARE! [h2ofun] [ In reply to ]

Nov 13, 17 14:04

Post #35 of 117 Views: 6542

You have admitted it your other thread, and honestly you probably would benefit from electronic the most, but let me guess you need to collect data to determine that, sorry I derailed the thread

Re: Two ironmans messed up by SRAM Etap in less than one month. BEWARE! [BryanD] [ In reply to ]

Nov 13, 17 14:09

Post #36 of 117 Views: 6538

BryanD wrote:

h2ofun wrote:

These are the kind of stories that want me to stay mechanical. Since electronic does not make anyone faster, just lighter in the pocket book, ......

Agreed. I'm still riding 10 speed Ultegra haha. Electronic is cool but it won't make me faster.

Yeah - I feel properly sorry for the OP because having your hard work screwed up by a glitch like this is awful, but I've thought for a long that electronic shifting is a solution looking for a problem.

Re: Two ironmans messed up by SRAM Etap in less than one month. BEWARE! [Monastero] [ In reply to ]

Nov 13, 17 14:33

Post #37 of 117 Views: 6510

Check your source on that. Short chainstays in combination with compact rings could give you trouble with front shifts as they are outside of SRAM's specs for this product, but saying it won't work on Shiv is absolutely false.

Re: Two ironmans messed up by SRAM Etap in less than one month. BEWARE! [RP29] [ In reply to ]

Nov 13, 17 14:45

Post #38 of 117 Views: 6489

Did you attempt to shift on the Blipbox itself during these times you were having trouble? Although the box is a little clunky, it is useful as a troubleshooting tool and as a functional backup to blips that can prone to damage due to long wires and exposure to sweat/Gatorade/weather.

Re: Two ironmans messed up by SRAM Etap in less than one month. BEWARE! [rs1852] [ In reply to ]

Nov 13, 17 15:26

Post #39 of 117 Views: 6441

rs1852 wrote:

You have admitted it your other thread, and honestly you probably would benefit from electronic the most, but let me guess you need to collect data to determine that, sorry I derailed the thread

I admitted what? That once in a while I sit up, just like everyone else. I also sit up, like most, on all up hills.

Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

Boom Nutrition code 19F4Y3 $5 off 24 pack box | Bionic Runner | PowerCranks | Velotron | Spruzzamist

Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep

Re: Two ironmans messed up by SRAM Etap in less than one month. BEWARE! [MVM] [ In reply to ]

Nov 13, 17 15:31

Post #40 of 117 Views: 6434

Check yours.
My source is SRAM and having actually installed it... It does not work well with a 53 x 39 set up or smaller.
SRAM indicated it should not be used on a bike with <405mm stays...a suggestion for a work around was to "try a 54 x 42"...
SRAM removed.
Google this. It is a fairly well-known issue.

Re: Two ironmans messed up by SRAM Etap in less than one month. BEWARE! [klehner] [ In reply to ]

Nov 13, 17 15:49

Post #41 of 117 Views: 6400

A lot. Especially in Kona.

Re: Two ironmans messed up by SRAM Etap in less than one month. BEWARE! [h2ofun] [ In reply to ]

Nov 13, 17 15:56

Post #42 of 117 Views: 6385

i stood a lot in Kona and shifted. I guess cents you have 20 years of racing you are an expert right!! Raced Kona without standing once and wanted to shift and rode under 4:40 right!

Re: Two ironmans messed up by SRAM Etap in less than one month. BEWARE! [danstu4] [ In reply to ]

Nov 13, 17 15:59

Post #43 of 117 Views: 6377

My takeaway from this thread: it's November and a lot of people are bored.

Re: Two ironmans messed up by SRAM Etap in less than one month. BEWARE! [danstu4] [ In reply to ]

Nov 13, 17 16:01

Post #44 of 117 Views: 6370

danstu4 wrote:

A lot. Especially in Kona.

-=

well played....

Re: Two ironmans messed up by SRAM Etap in less than one month. BEWARE! [Monastero] [ In reply to ]

Nov 13, 17 16:42

Post #45 of 117 Views: 6336

Monastero wrote:

Check yours.
My source is SRAM and having actually installed it... It does not work well with a 53 x 39 set up or smaller.
SRAM indicated it should not be used on a bike with <405mm stays...a suggestion for a work around was to "try a 54 x 42"...
SRAM removed.
Google this. It is a fairly well-known issue.

Don’t know what you’re talking about. I have a 52/34 compact on my Shiv and have had no issues for the last 2 years I’ve owned it.

Re: Two ironmans messed up by SRAM Etap in less than one month. BEWARE! [h2ofun] [ In reply to ]

Nov 13, 17 16:46

Post #46 of 117 Views: 6329

h2ofun wrote:

These are the kind of stories that want me to stay mechanical. Since electronic does not make anyone faster, just lighter in the pocket book, ......

x 2! It seems relatively rare that electronic gears fail, but still happens to enough people that I know to give me the fear!

Re: Two ironmans messed up by SRAM Etap in less than one month. BEWARE! [rotosound] [ In reply to ]

Nov 13, 17 16:50

Post #47 of 117 Views: 6320

rotosound wrote:

Because mechanical drivetrains never break or come out adjustment? OK.

Very rarely. And I'd imagine 90% of the time an allen key would fix it up in a few mins.

I've never ridden electronic, so I don't really know how often these systems fail and how easy they are to fix on the fly, I guess I just like the peace of mind with mechanical and with the cost of electronic gears plus the added risk, it doesn't seem worth it. I'd love it on my road bike, which I use for training though, especially out in the hills. But yeah racing, I want simple as possible.

Last edited by: zedzded: Nov 13, 17 16:53

Re: Two ironmans messed up by SRAM Etap in less than one month. BEWARE! [ChrisM] [ In reply to ]

Nov 13, 17 16:55

Post #48 of 117 Views: 6317

when you're an IM AG world champion you get a pass :)

ChrisM wrote:

danstu4 wrote:

A lot. Especially in Kona.

-=

well played....

Re: Two ironmans messed up by SRAM Etap in less than one month. BEWARE! [KingMidas] [ In reply to ]

Nov 13, 17 16:58

Post #49 of 117 Views: 6306

KingMidas wrote:

Monastero wrote:

Check yours.
My source is SRAM and having actually installed it... It does not work well with a 53 x 39 set up or smaller.
SRAM indicated it should not be used on a bike with <405mm stays...a suggestion for a work around was to "try a 54 x 42"...
SRAM removed.
Google this. It is a fairly well-known issue.

Don’t know what you’re talking about. I have a 52/34 compact on my Shiv and have had no issues for the last 2 years I’ve owned it.

Short chainstays can make shifting adjustments finicky, but I think SRAM's concerns are about extreme cross chaining rather than these setups working. See page 13 here: https://www.sram.com/...t_spec_2017_road.pdf

Re: Two ironmans messed up by SRAM Etap in less than one month. BEWARE! [zedzded] [ In reply to ]

Nov 13, 17 16:59

Post #50 of 117 Views: 6304

zedzded wrote:

rotosound wrote:

Because mechanical drivetrains never break or come out adjustment? OK.

Very rarely. And I'd imagine 90% of the time an allen key would fix it up in a few mins.

I've never ridden electronic, so I don't really know how often these systems fail and how easy they are to fix on the fly, I guess I just like the peace of mind with mechanical and with the cost of electronic gears plus the added risk, it doesn't seem worth it. I'd love it on my road bike, which I use for training though, especially out in the hills. But yeah racing, I want simple as possible.

Just the thought of having to deal with batteries is why would I want one more thing to worry about during a race. But, if that new bike I want with discs brakes only has electronic, .... :(

Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

Boom Nutrition code 19F4Y3 $5 off 24 pack box | Bionic Runner | PowerCranks | Velotron | Spruzzamist

Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep

Re: Two ironmans messed up by SRAM Etap in less than one month. BEWARE! [BryanD] [ In reply to ]

Nov 13, 17 17:13

Post #51 of 117 Views: 6196

BryanD wrote:

Agreed. I'm still riding 10 speed Ultegra haha. Electronic is cool but it won't make me faster.

Still on SRAM Red mechanical 10-speed for me. Works great.

Re: Two ironmans messed up by SRAM Etap in less than one month. BEWARE! [h2ofun] [ In reply to ]

Nov 13, 17 17:28

Post #52 of 117 Views: 6179

I switched over to eTap on my tri bike this year. I'v had ZERO issues during training or races. I was leery of the battery life issue too, but after 8 months on it I've had no problems. There is a charge indicator so you'll know well ahead of time. I've made plenty of little adjustments on the fly. I'm a pretty decent mechanic but it really is easy to work with. I, if not most of us, have had mechanical drive train problems that ranged from minor nuisance to catastrophic failure. Shit breaks. That said, I have mech Dura-Ace on my road and cross bikes and am totally happy with them too. I've never used Shimano Di2. I just get annoyed with these posts about some dude having a problem with Product X, therefore Product X is total shit that should be destroyed and the company should be burned to the ground BS.

Someone kept saying that there is no speed advantage. OK. But the easy of tapping a button and it shifting perfectly makes makes the experience better for me, so I'm happy.

Don't drown. Don't crash. Don't walk.

Re: Two ironmans messed up by SRAM Etap in less than one month. BEWARE! [rotosound] [ In reply to ]

Nov 13, 17 17:37

Post #53 of 117 Views: 6165

rotosound wrote:

I just get annoyed with these posts about some dude having a problem with Product X, therefore Product X is total shit that should be destroyed and the company should be burned to the ground BS.

If I didn't have training mates that were having similar issues (albeit rarely) with electronic gearing then posts like this wouldn't register with me. I'm not suggesting the technology is shit or the companies are shit, sometimes it's people not maintaining their bikes properly or not charging their batteries, but for a race I want something that is as close to 100% reliable as possible and if it does fail is easily fixed. In that regard mechanical > electronic.

Re: Two ironmans messed up by SRAM Etap in less than one month. BEWARE! [zedzded] [ In reply to ]

Nov 13, 17 18:05

Post #54 of 117 Views: 6138

I will say I have had less trouble with shifts with electronic on my cross bike than mechanical. Heavy mud, grass, falls, wet, snow, etc.

I have had each brand of everything. I'll take eTap and disks any day. Least failures of all options I have raced.

Re: Two ironmans messed up by SRAM Etap in less than one month. BEWARE! [KingMidas] [ In reply to ]

Nov 13, 17 18:52

Post #55 of 117 Views: 6098

You truly must be King Midas.
To Others: do yourself a favor and call SRAM and ask for yourself.

Re: Two ironmans messed up by SRAM Etap in less than one month. BEWARE! [RP29] [ In reply to ]

Nov 13, 17 21:51

Post #56 of 117 Views: 6038

"I was in second at that point of the race".

Maybe etap thought such a backdoor brag deserved a 54/11? Anyway, being stuck in 54/11 should have meant you finish 40 minutes faster not slower!?!!?

Re: Two ironmans messed up by SRAM Etap in less than one month. BEWARE! [RP29] [ In reply to ]

Nov 13, 17 21:58

Post #57 of 117 Views: 6031

I have a new bike on the horizon and have been having shimano sram debate. Having had Di2 on 2 bikes for 3 yrs and never any issues (besides user error of forgetting to charge batteries) reading this def makes me want to stick with "wires" thanks for posting.

2024: Bevoman, Galveston, Alcatraz, Marble Falls, Santa Cruz

Re: Two ironmans messed up by SRAM Etap in less than one month. BEWARE! [ In reply to ]

Nov 14, 17 4:17

Post #58 of 117 Views: 5934

I understand the grief of the OP going to event with so much training investment and there was gear failure. I had a mechanical rear derailleur spring break in September on a training ride 35 miles from my car in the middle of nowhere so bad things can happen with any gear. I was able to make it back with using the front rings, but a very slow pace at best. Sucks and can happen at any time.

As for SRAM etap I just bought a new tri bike and bought the low end model IA16 with full intention of upgrading to etap maybe next year. I agree that it may seem like a frivolous purchase, but having it on my road bike for about 11 months I really like it. I will continue to evaluate the etap on my road bike and consider posts like this until the time is right to make the purchase. I will also use the time to see if SRAM makes any updates or upgrades or discounts in the months ahead. At this point having good experience with the road group I am leaning more as an etap fan and have no disappointments so far. touch wood

Re: Two ironmans messed up by SRAM Etap in less than one month. BEWARE! [BBLOEHR] [ In reply to ]

Nov 14, 17 4:39

Post #59 of 117 Views: 5905

BBLOEHR wrote:

I have a new bike on the horizon and have been having shimano sram debate. Having had Di2 on 2 bikes for 3 yrs and never any issues (besides user error of forgetting to charge batteries) reading this def makes me want to stick with "wires" thanks for posting.

FWIW, I've been using Etap on my TT bike and really enjoy it. Love the wireless system and it helps with traveling, breaking the bike down for sure.

I've had one issue and it really isn't an Etap issue. I had a battery completely discharge after shipping it... how it got discharged is a bit of a mystery but I now carry a spare battery and my charger. That's another thing I really like about Etap, having easily replaceable batteries.

Re: Two ironmans messed up by SRAM Etap in less than one month. BEWARE! [zedzded] [ In reply to ]

Nov 14, 17 4:43

Post #60 of 117 Views: 5903

zedzded wrote:

rotosound wrote:

I just get annoyed with these posts about some dude having a problem with Product X, therefore Product X is total shit that should be destroyed and the company should be burned to the ground BS.

If I didn't have training mates that were having similar issues (albeit rarely) with electronic gearing then posts like this wouldn't register with me. I'm not suggesting the technology is shit or the companies are shit, sometimes it's people not maintaining their bikes properly or not charging their batteries, but for a race I want something that is as close to 100% reliable as possible and if it does fail is easily fixed. In that regard mechanical > electronic.

I always find it amusing that 99% of negative equipment responses are from people who either do not own the equipment or from someone who knew a guy, who's brother heard from a friend that somewhere in South America someone going up a steep hill had something fail. I bet if the OP had two flat tires during his race this whole conversation would be about how those tires suck and how horrible that company is that manufactured such garbage.

Re: Two ironmans messed up by SRAM Etap in less than one month. BEWARE! [rotosound] [ In reply to ]

Nov 14, 17 5:07

Post #61 of 117 Views: 5866

rotosound wrote:

Because mechanical drivetrains never break or come out adjustment? OK.

Well, of course mechanical drivetrains can have problems. However, with good regular preventative maintenance the incidence of such problems can be exceedingly low. I haven't had a single drivetrain problem since I became knowledgeable about wrenching and started to do regular preventative maintenance over two decades ago. Every now and then I need to tweak the cable adjuster a click or two to keep my shifting perfect, BFD. Sure, if you go for years without replacing cables and housings your reliability will be low.

I keep getting tempted by electronic shifting, but two or three times a year, myself or my wife are on a ride where someone's electronic drivetrain has failed, and no I'm not talking about anecdotal third-hand info. Even though more people are still running mechanical shifting, the incidence of major mechanical problems I observe is significantly lower. What concerns me is the failures seem to go beyond what is preventable with careful maintenance. I'm sure one day I will switch, but for now I'm saving my $$.

Re: Two ironmans messed up by SRAM Etap in less than one month. BEWARE! [ In reply to ]

Nov 14, 17 6:11

Post #62 of 117 Views: 5803

The level of confirmation bias and never used it but proclaim myself knowledgeable is hilarious. Never change Slowtwitch.

Re: Two ironmans messed up by SRAM Etap in less than one month. BEWARE! [h2ofun] [ In reply to ]

Nov 14, 17 6:13

Post #63 of 117 Views: 5799

h2ofun wrote:

I cannot ever once in 20 years of racing standing and needing to shift. But I bet that makes one a lot faster, right. :)

But in 20 years, have you ever shifted up or down whilst climbing out of the saddle with STI style shifters?

29 years and counting

Re: Two ironmans messed up by SRAM Etap in less than one month. BEWARE! [RP29] [ In reply to ]

Nov 14, 17 6:19

Post #64 of 117 Views: 5788

I have used electronic shifting (Di2 or eTap) for the last seven years. I have never had an issue with either. Not once.

I had more problems with mechanical. Not many problems but the number was more than zero. But so what? Confirmation bias is just silly.

To the OP... sorry about your race but as someone mentioned, you can manually shift eTap at the FD or RD. It doesn’t help while riding but it could help in your situation when you’re stuck in a gear. You could have manually shifted into a better gear. You can also shift from the blip box if the blips or clics weren’t working. Know your equipment. I don’t mean that in a dick-ish manner. Just as an over simplified statement.

Favorite Gear: Dimond | Cadex | Desoto Sport | Hoka One One

Last edited by: The GMAN: Nov 14, 17 6:21

Re: Two ironmans messed up by SRAM Etap in less than one month. BEWARE! [tttiltheend] [ In reply to ]

Nov 14, 17 6:43

Post #65 of 117 Views: 5764

[/quote] However, with good regular preventative maintenance the incidence of such problems can be exceedingly low.[/quote]
I would make the same argument for etap. You hear a few horror etap stories and assume the problems are more than exceedingly low when I just don’t think that is the reality.

Re: Two ironmans messed up by SRAM Etap in less than one month. BEWARE! [RP29] [ In reply to ]

Nov 14, 17 6:45

Post #66 of 117 Views: 5764

Sounds to me like you have one of the following possible issues, any of which could be causing a false RHS shift signal as if you were pushing a RHS blip:

(i) water ingress or a stuck button in one of the RHS blips
(ii) a crushed cable from one of the RHS blips
(iii) water ingress or some other fault in the blip-box
(iv) a combination of the above.

This would explain why your RD keeps shifting down (ie there is a constant down shift signal coming from one of the blips or the blipbox), and when you try to shift up by hitting a LHS blip the FD shifted because the blipbox thinks there is a "simultaneous" shift from both sides. For whatever reason your fault only manifested in the heat / humid conditions while racing.

My guess is it is most likely a bad RHS blip. Change them out and carry on. If the problem persists, then change the blipbox. (Ask your LBS to lend you the parts to try figure it the fault).

And for the record, no system is perfect. I currently run ETap without any issues, but I've also both sheared a Di2 cable (closing a rear QR on the RD cable) on race morning and had a mechanical RD break on me for no reason mid race!

Re: Two ironmans messed up by SRAM Etap in less than one month. BEWARE! [SAvan] [ In reply to ]

Nov 14, 17 7:28

Post #67 of 117 Views: 5718

a few comments on this entire thread:

1. i had a mechanical RD not shift into my 2 biggest cogs in my last race and at worlds 70.3 going up the mountain. believe me, that was tough, but i never posted about it until now. people don't often mention mechanical RD failures because mechanical RDs are not new.

2. i realize sram call support says it is for dealers only but when you talk to them, they more then welcome individual calls and they have helped me, an individual, several times.

3. i just bought electronic shifting. i feel no need to justify my decision or criticize the decision of those who like using mechanical. i feel some on this thread are trying to criticize those who are different from them on here and i wish those folks had the self confidence to not do that.

2018 Races: IM Santa Rosa, Vineman Monte Rio, Lake Tahoe 70.3

Re: Two ironmans messed up by SRAM Etap in less than one month. BEWARE! [BryanD] [ In reply to ]

Nov 14, 17 8:46

Post #68 of 117 Views: 5662

BryanD wrote:

h2ofun wrote:

These are the kind of stories that want me to stay mechanical. Since electronic does not make anyone faster, just lighter in the pocket book, ......

Agreed. I'm still riding 10 speed Ultegra haha. Electronic is cool but it won't make me faster.

I am riding 9 speed Ultegra!!!

Re: Two ironmans messed up by SRAM Etap in less than one month. BEWARE! [RP29] [ In reply to ]

Nov 14, 17 9:14

Post #69 of 117 Views: 5632

Sorry to hear that happened to you yet again. Pretty much sucks,,,

Re: Two ironmans messed up by SRAM Etap in less than one month. BEWARE! [RP29] [ In reply to ]

Nov 14, 17 9:33

Post #70 of 117 Views: 5607

Sorry to hear about your situation.

I use good mechanical shift systems, but I do think that in actual function electronic shifting is slightly but significantly superior.

BUT.

The failure mode(s) of electronic shifting is a deal killer for me, exactly as you have explained in your story. So that is why I use excellent but less than state-of-the-art mechanical shifting (11s Ultegra). But failure modes are very, very important if your events are important to you. That is why aircraft that use electronic control systems have a backup to the primary system, and then a backup for the backup system, and usually a backup for the backup of the backup.

Advanced Aero TopTube Storage for Road, Gravel, & Tri...ZeroSlip & Direct-mount, made in the USA.
DarkSpeedWorks.com.....Reviews.....Insta.....Facebook
--

Re: Two ironmans messed up by SRAM Etap in less than one month. BEWARE! [Sanrafaeltri] [ In reply to ]

Nov 14, 17 9:37

Post #71 of 117 Views: 5599

Sanrafaeltri wrote:

1. i had a mechanical RD not shift into my 2 biggest cogs in my last race and at worlds 70.3 going up the mountain. believe me, that was tough, but i never posted about it until now. people don't often mention mechanical RD failures because mechanical RDs are not new.

Yes, people are "comfortable" with mechanical shifting failures because of familiarity. It's easy to understand what happened (in general), to the point that if someone had two Ironmans wrecked by mechanical shifting failure, 99% of the responses would be "learn how to set up your bike, or pay someone to do it". With electronic, on the other hand (and eTap even more so) people view it as a magic box that either works or doesn't, with no control or responsibility on their part. If there's a failure, the fault lies, or is perceived to lie, with the product or manufacturer.

The point is, ladies and gentleman, that speed, for lack of a better word, is good. Speed is right, Speed works. Speed clarifies, cuts through, and captures the essence of the evolutionary spirit.

Post deleted by Administrator [ In reply to ]

null-and-void

Nov 14, 17 9:57

Post #72 of 117 Views: 5581

Re: Two ironmans messed up by SRAM Etap in less than one month. BEWARE! [gabbiev] [ In reply to ]

Nov 14, 17 10:18

Post #73 of 117 Views: 5563

By saying it boggles the mind you are expressing your negativity about people who make different decisions than you. Just stop. There is no need. I'm not criticizing your choices, why do you feel the need to criticize the decisions made by others? I don't really care what you put on your bike as long as you believe in it, you are happy and you enjoy triathlons. That is the whole goal. If you could refrain from having your mind boggled by choices that are different than yours, than others wouldn't feel the need to defend and argue their decisions..

2018 Races: IM Santa Rosa, Vineman Monte Rio, Lake Tahoe 70.3

Re: Two ironmans messed up by SRAM Etap in less than one month. BEWARE! [gabbiev] [ In reply to ]

Nov 14, 17 10:28

Post #74 of 117 Views: 5542

gabbiev wrote:

h2ofun wrote:

BryanD wrote:

It's possible than that water got into the unit and is causing issues.

Just more reasons to really ask is it worth the cool factor and cost, when it gives zero increase in speed. If one wants to get faster, sure are ways to spend money that will do this.

And isn't this the same argument that can be applied to disc brakes on the road? This isn't necessarily directed to you--it's interesting to see how some riders will avoid the complexity of electronic shifting, yet still embrace hydraulic road bike discs. It boggles the mind.

I have not heard of folks have issues with disc brakes. Did I miss these posts.

I know lots of folks, including me, have had issues with rim brakes in the rain which is the main reason I would like disc brakes. May not make me faster,
but should make me safer.

Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

Boom Nutrition code 19F4Y3 $5 off 24 pack box | Bionic Runner | PowerCranks | Velotron | Spruzzamist

Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep

Re: Two ironmans messed up by SRAM Etap in less than one month. BEWARE! [h2ofun] [ In reply to ]

Nov 14, 17 13:18

Post #75 of 117 Views: 5442

And....this thread will probably get destroyed by the anti-disc debate.

Make Inside Out Sports your next online tri shop! http://www.insideoutsports.com/

Re: Two ironmans messed up by SRAM Etap in less than one month. BEWARE! [BryanD] [ In reply to ]

Nov 14, 17 13:34

Post #76 of 117 Views: 5354

BryanD wrote:

And....this thread will probably get destroyed by the anti-disc debate.

Yep, where is Tom? :)

Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

Boom Nutrition code 19F4Y3 $5 off 24 pack box | Bionic Runner | PowerCranks | Velotron | Spruzzamist

Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep

Re: Two ironmans messed up by SRAM Etap in less than one month. BEWARE! [h2ofun] [ In reply to ]

Nov 14, 17 13:42

Post #77 of 117 Views: 5344

He will find the thread soon enough haha

Make Inside Out Sports your next online tri shop! http://www.insideoutsports.com/

Re: Two ironmans messed up by SRAM Etap in less than one month. BEWARE! [BryanD] [ In reply to ]

Nov 14, 17 13:50

Post #78 of 117 Views: 5336

BryanD wrote:

And....this thread will probably get destroyed by the anti-disc debate.

You're just as guilty of turning everything into a disc brake flamewar as the people you complain about.

The point is, ladies and gentleman, that speed, for lack of a better word, is good. Speed is right, Speed works. Speed clarifies, cuts through, and captures the essence of the evolutionary spirit.

Re: Two ironmans messed up by SRAM Etap in less than one month. BEWARE! [BryanD] [ In reply to ]

Nov 14, 17 13:50

Post #79 of 117 Views: 5335

BryanD wrote:

He will find the thread soon enough haha

True :)

Still hard to believe no Bike mfg has come out with a middle class priced disc brake bike with Etap for 2018. Oh well, keeps the money in the bank

Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

Boom Nutrition code 19F4Y3 $5 off 24 pack box | Bionic Runner | PowerCranks | Velotron | Spruzzamist

Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep

Re: Two ironmans messed up by SRAM Etap in less than one month. BEWARE! [Toby] [ In reply to ]

Nov 14, 17 13:51

Post #80 of 117 Views: 5333

Hahahaha....ok

Make Inside Out Sports your next online tri shop! http://www.insideoutsports.com/

Re: Two ironmans messed up by SRAM Etap in less than one month. BEWARE! [Tom A.] [ In reply to ]

Nov 14, 17 14:06

Post #81 of 117 Views: 5325

Tom A. wrote:

BryanD wrote:

h2ofun wrote:

These are the kind of stories that want me to stay mechanical. Since electronic does not make anyone faster, just lighter in the pocket book, ......

Agreed. I'm still riding 10 speed Ultegra haha. Electronic is cool but it won't make me faster.

Who are you, and what have you done with BryanD??

Did you miss this gem BryanD?

Re: Two ironmans messed up by SRAM Etap in less than one month. BEWARE! [Sean H] [ In reply to ]

Nov 14, 17 14:34

Post #82 of 117 Views: 5309

Saw it and laughed. I may look forward to disc brakes but I still think electronic shifting is a luxury item.

Make Inside Out Sports your next online tri shop! http://www.insideoutsports.com/

Last edited by: BryanD: Nov 14, 17 14:36

Re: Two ironmans messed up by SRAM Etap in less than one month. BEWARE! [BryanD] [ In reply to ]

Nov 14, 17 21:58

Post #83 of 117 Views: 5223

BryanD wrote:

And....this thread will probably get destroyed by the anti-disc debate.

I can think of nothing more appropos than the anti-electronic thread being derailed by the anti-disc debate.

Re: Two ironmans messed up by SRAM Etap in less than one month. BEWARE! [lanierb] [ In reply to ]

Nov 15, 17 2:31

Post #84 of 117 Views: 5147

Any reservations I might have had on disc brakes were finally dispelled in my last race; it was very wet & windy with 3 nasty descents on (carbon) rim brakes. Consequently my new Endurace SLX may have mechanical, but it has a very nice set of Reynolds disc brake wheels. I had the choice between the top SL model with Di2, or the base SLX model with the HM frame and Reynolds wheels; I figured electronic wasn't going to speed me up. Horses for courses.

29 years and counting

Re: Two ironmans messed up by SRAM Etap in less than one month. BEWARE! [gabbiev] [ In reply to ]

Nov 15, 17 3:08

Post #85 of 117 Views: 5126

gabbiev wrote:

h2ofun wrote:

BryanD wrote:

It's possible than that water got into the unit and is causing issues.

Just more reasons to really ask is it worth the cool factor and cost, when it gives zero increase in speed. If one wants to get faster, sure are ways to spend money that will do this.

And isn't this the same argument that can be applied to disc brakes on the road? This isn't necessarily directed to you--it's interesting to see how some riders will avoid the complexity of electronic shifting, yet still embrace hydraulic road bike discs. It boggles the mind.

You are drawing a false equivalence.
How is the difference between rim and disc brakes equivalent to that between mechanical and electronic shifting?

Brakes: Both are mechanical from lever to caliper. TO the best of my knowledge, both are similarly reliable in terms of actuator operation. No possibility of electrical or software issues.
Derailleurs: One is mechanical end to end, the other is electronic.

Brakes: Rim brakes are deemed to provide sufficient power and modulation by many. Disks offer superior wet weather reliability of effect and overcome the relatively poor braking performance of most full carbon rims at the cost of arguable impact on aesthetics, weight and aerodynamics.
Derailleurs: Mechanical and electronic derailleurs do the same thing in the same way. They move the chain between chainrings/sprockets using a deflection cage/sprockets. The potential benefits of electronic shifting are easier cable routing and cleaner bike setup, quicker and more precise gear changes, perhaps reduced maintenance.

Are you aware of any evidence, or even anecdotes, that either cable or hydraulic disk brakes are more likely to fail than rim brakes?

Re: Two ironmans messed up by SRAM Etap in less than one month. BEWARE! [Ai_1] [ In reply to ]

Nov 15, 17 4:09

Post #86 of 117 Views: 5089

Ai_1 wrote:

Are you aware of any evidence, or even anecdotes, that either cable or hydraulic disk brakes are more likely to fail than rim brakes?

Are you aware of any evidence that electronic shifting is more likely to fail than mechanical? Unlike you, I'm not interested in anecdotes, although I have plenty of those for mechanical shifting failures.

The point is, ladies and gentleman, that speed, for lack of a better word, is good. Speed is right, Speed works. Speed clarifies, cuts through, and captures the essence of the evolutionary spirit.

Re: Two ironmans messed up by SRAM Etap in less than one month. BEWARE! [RP29] [ In reply to ]

Nov 15, 17 4:14

Post #87 of 117 Views: 5080

I have been in a similar situation to you so here is my take on this. I had the servo motor go out on my rear derailleur during a race. SRAM was unable to give me an explanation until they had received my old part after getting a warranty replacement from them. They cant really give you a definitive answer without having the part themselves to look at. So here is my opinion. You had an issue during Kona. Yes that is a big deal, and is an odd occurrence. You then got with SRAM and your shop to try and figure out the issue. No real answer was found or given for the situation and no steps were taken to fix the issue. (going ahead and getting warranty replacements and I don't know if you had any subsequent problems between Kona and Los Cabos during training.) You then go and toe the line for another race with the same exact drivetrain parts and not knowing if the problem you had in Kona had been fixed or fixed itself? So seems like a fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me kind on thing. I feel that the statement of two Ironman messed up by eTap is untrue. Yes, one was messed up by it, but the other was just as much on you for not completely fixing the problem.

Re: Two ironmans messed up by SRAM Etap in less than one month. BEWARE! [Ai_1] [ In reply to ]

Nov 15, 17 4:16

Post #88 of 117 Views: 5079

Ai_1 wrote:

gabbiev wrote:

And isn't this the same argument that can be applied to disc brakes on the road? This isn't necessarily directed to you--it's interesting to see how some riders will avoid the complexity of electronic shifting, yet still embrace hydraulic road bike discs. It boggles the mind.

You are drawing a false equivalence.
How is the difference between rim and disc brakes equivalent to that between mechanical and electronic shifting?

Brakes: Both are mechanical from lever to caliper. TO the best of my knowledge, both are similarly reliable in terms of actuator operation. No possibility of electrical or software issues.
Derailleurs: One is mechanical end to end, the other is electronic.

Brakes: Rim brakes are deemed to provide sufficient power and modulation by many. Disks offer superior wet weather reliability of effect and overcome the relatively poor braking performance of most full carbon rims at the cost of arguable impact on aesthetics, weight and aerodynamics.
Derailleurs: Mechanical and electronic derailleurs do the same thing in the same way. They move the chain between chainrings/sprockets using a deflection cage/sprockets. The potential benefits of electronic shifting are easier cable routing and cleaner bike setup, quicker and more precise gear changes, perhaps reduced maintenance.

Are you aware of any evidence, or even anecdotes, that either cable or hydraulic disk brakes are more likely to fail than rim brakes?

Yep. Everyone will prioritise their needs and base kit choices on that.

For me, staying with mechanical shifting and having hydraulic disc brakes makes sense. I can descend faster and more safely in the wet with carbon rims and wider tyres; the operative words being safely & faster. It's highly debatable that electronic shifting will make me any faster. The only tangible benefit for me in respect of electronic, is multiple shifter locations on a TT bike; I can't argue with that.

29 years and counting

Re: Two ironmans messed up by SRAM Etap in less than one month. BEWARE! [ In reply to ]

Nov 15, 17 4:17

Post #89 of 117 Views: 5079

Even with the warning from the OP It is going to take a lot of willpower to put off getting etap for the new IA. As of yesterday I now have it pretty much setup like I want with exception of the drivetrain and maybe a little fitting tweak here or there. I have to admit that the low end mechanical components are shifting very well albeit a little stiff being brand new. So nothing wrong with what is on there, but this will eat at me until I do the last upgrade.

Re: Two ironmans messed up by SRAM Etap in less than one month. BEWARE! [Toby] [ In reply to ]

Nov 15, 17 4:20

Post #90 of 117 Views: 5077

Toby wrote:

Ai_1 wrote:

Are you aware of any evidence, or even anecdotes, that either cable or hydraulic disk brakes are more likely to fail than rim brakes?

Are you aware of any evidence that electronic shifting is more likely to fail than mechanical? Unlike you, I'm not interested in anecdotes, although I have plenty of those for mechanical shifting failures.

I'm vaguely interested, but won't put any stock, in anecdotes.

Of course mechanical shifting can and does occur. I never said otherwise. What's your point?

I was attempting to point out the false equivalency that the quoted poster appeared to be drawing between electronic shifting and disc brakes. They suggested it was somehow inconsistent to advocate disc brakes but not electronic gearing. This was the point of my post and I believe that was clear. What's the point of yours?

Re: Two ironmans messed up by SRAM Etap in less than one month. BEWARE! [Ai_1] [ In reply to ]

Nov 15, 17 4:26

Post #91 of 117 Views: 5072

Ai_1 wrote:

Toby wrote:

Ai_1 wrote:

Are you aware of any evidence, or even anecdotes, that either cable or hydraulic disk brakes are more likely to fail than rim brakes?

Are you aware of any evidence that electronic shifting is more likely to fail than mechanical? Unlike you, I'm not interested in anecdotes, although I have plenty of those for mechanical shifting failures.

I'm vaguely interested, but won't put any stock, in anecdotes.

Of course mechanical shifting can and does occur. I never said otherwise. What's your point?

I was attempting to point out the false equivalency that the quoted poster appeared to be drawing between electronic shifting and disc brakes. They suggested it was somehow inconsistent to advocate disc brakes but not electronic gearing. This was the point of my post and I believe that was clear. What's the point of yours?

Your post was asking if hydraulic brakes had more failures than mechanical. For that to prove that the comparison between mechanical and electronic shifting was invalid, it would imply that electronic shifting fails more often than mechanical. If hydraulic shifting is at least as reliable as mechanical (but "newer and different"), and electronic shifting is at least as reliable as mechanical (but "newer and different"), then drawing a comparison about irrational fear of either is valid. That's my point, and unless you believe mechanical shifting is more reliable than electronic, no, yours was not clear.

Certainly, someone could say "I'd rather have mechanical shifting and hydraulic brakes", but I'd roll my eyes if they said it was because electronic shifting wasn't reliable enough. Which was the original point.

The point is, ladies and gentleman, that speed, for lack of a better word, is good. Speed is right, Speed works. Speed clarifies, cuts through, and captures the essence of the evolutionary spirit.

Re: Two ironmans messed up by SRAM Etap in less than one month. BEWARE! [Toby] [ In reply to ]

Nov 15, 17 5:34

Post #92 of 117 Views: 5031

Toby wrote:

Ai_1 wrote:

Are you aware of any evidence, or even anecdotes, that either cable or hydraulic disk brakes are more likely to fail than rim brakes?

Are you aware of any evidence that electronic shifting is more likely to fail than mechanical? Unlike you, I'm not interested in anecdotes, although I have plenty of those for mechanical shifting failures.

OK, so I'd like to know who has actual objective data on failure rates? I haven't seen anything in the public domain. Bike shops probably have a reasonable idea but I doubt any of them keep actual data. Undoubtedly selling electronic drivetrains is profitable for them as they are very expensive so it's not in their best interest to collect and disseminate such data unless it can prove electronic shifting is more reliable. Manufacturers undoubtedly have warranty claim data but you can be sure they aren't going to share it with us.

So asking for data is a red herring, unfortunately all we have are anecdotes.

I do know that on group rides about which I have direct knowledge, electronic shifting failures are more common than mechanical failures, even though a majority of the people on those rides still ride mechanical. I like the idea of electronic shifting but the failures I see on the road really give me pause.

I pointed out that with proper preventative maintenance, mechanical can be extremely reliable. So the counter argument is made that applies to electronic shifting as well. But one of the main arguments in favor of electronic is that it requires less maintenance. So what preventative maintenance will help reliability? Letting the battery run down isn't preventative maintenance, that's operator error. I can see periodically checking cable connections to make sure they're secure, what else is there? If you're talking chain and cassette wear, that's a red herring as that's the same for mechanical.

I like shiny new technology and would like to convert to electronic. But I also like to have exceptional reliability that's within my control and I prefer to spend money on things that provide actual speed benefit.

Re: Two ironmans messed up by SRAM Etap in less than one month. BEWARE! [ In reply to ]

Nov 15, 17 6:09

Post #93 of 117 Views: 4998

This thread has gone full Derp, you never go full Derp.

Re: Two ironmans messed up by SRAM Etap in less than one month. BEWARE! [Toby] [ In reply to ]

Nov 15, 17 6:53

Post #94 of 117 Views: 4964

Toby wrote:

Ai_1 wrote:

Are you aware of any evidence, or even anecdotes, that either cable or hydraulic disk brakes are more likely to fail than rim brakes?

Are you aware of any evidence that electronic shifting is more likely to fail than mechanical? Unlike you, I'm not interested in anecdotes, although I have plenty of those for mechanical shifting failures.

It is just another anecdote, but, if it helps, in 30 years of a lot riding, I have had zero mechanical shifting failures. Not a single one.

But, in the end, I think the failure rate is not the issue, the failure mode of electronic shifting is the far bigger issue, at least the one that concerns me.

Advanced Aero TopTube Storage for Road, Gravel, & Tri...ZeroSlip & Direct-mount, made in the USA.
DarkSpeedWorks.com.....Reviews.....Insta.....Facebook
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Re: Two ironmans messed up by SRAM Etap in less than one month. BEWARE! [elf6c] [ In reply to ]

Nov 15, 17 9:14

Post #95 of 117 Views: 4909

Regards,
J. Smith

Re: Two ironmans messed up by SRAM Etap in less than one month. BEWARE! [SAvan] [ In reply to ]

Nov 15, 17 9:52

Post #96 of 117 Views: 4886

SAvan wrote:

Sounds to me like you have one of the following possible issues, any of which could be causing a false RHS shift signal as if you were pushing a RHS blip:

(i) water ingress or a stuck button in one of the RHS blips
(ii) a crushed cable from one of the RHS blips
(iii) water ingress or some other fault in the blip-box
(iv) a combination of the above.

This would explain why your RD keeps shifting down (ie there is a constant down shift signal coming from one of the blips or the blipbox), and when you try to shift up by hitting a LHS blip the FD shifted because the blipbox thinks there is a "simultaneous" shift from both sides. For whatever reason your fault only manifested in the heat / humid conditions while racing.

My guess is it is most likely a bad RHS blip. Change them out and carry on. If the problem persists, then change the blipbox. (Ask your LBS to lend you the parts to try figure it the fault).

And for the record, no system is perfect. I currently run ETap without any issues, but I've also both sheared a Di2 cable (closing a rear QR on the RD cable) on race morning and had a mechanical RD break on me for no reason mid race!

Toby wrote:

Yes, people are "comfortable" with mechanical shifting failures because of familiarity. It's easy to understand what happened (in general), to the point that if someone had two Ironmans wrecked by mechanical shifting failure, 99% of the responses would be "learn how to set up your bike, or pay someone to do it". With electronic, on the other hand (and eTap even more so) people view it as a magic box that either works or doesn't, with no control or responsibility on their part. If there's a failure, the fault lies, or is perceived to lie, with the product or manufacturer.

To the two posts above I quoted...this is where I would like SRAM and Shimano clarify the issues that people are seeing.

I fully agree that mechanical is easy to understand and troubleshoot. If you have some whacked cable runs, worn housing, or ferrules that aren't fully seated in the cable stops then you can potentially have issues that cause a failure. In those cases, we don't blame Jagwire, we blame the user or the installer. The 4 possible causes suggested above, if it were the case to be the problem, shouldn't be any different. And there should be a user guide that is more commonly referenced for users to ensure periodically that an electronic system is set up properly...no different than we periodically check our cables and housings.

If indeed some, or most of these electronic failures we are seeing are due to actual failure of electronics, and not loose cable connections, poor wiring runs, or spraying too much water on certain parts without periodically checking on them afterwards, then sure...electronic can have some failure points outside user control. But really no different than how SRAM was having road paddle shifters suddenly snap off. I should know...it happened to me twice.

Re: Two ironmans messed up by SRAM Etap in less than one month. BEWARE! [DarkSpeedWorks] [ In reply to ]

Nov 15, 17 10:07

Post #97 of 117 Views: 4872

DarkSpeedWorks wrote:

Toby wrote:

Ai_1 wrote:

Are you aware of any evidence, or even anecdotes, that either cable or hydraulic disk brakes are more likely to fail than rim brakes?

Are you aware of any evidence that electronic shifting is more likely to fail than mechanical? Unlike you, I'm not interested in anecdotes, although I have plenty of those for mechanical shifting failures.

It is just another anecdote, but, if it helps, in 30 years of a lot riding, I have had zero mechanical shifting failures. Not a single one.

But, in the end, I think the failure rate is not the issue, the failure mode of electronic shifting is the far bigger issue, at least the one that concerns me.[/quo

Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. Just saying.

Re: Two ironmans messed up by SRAM Etap in less than one month. BEWARE! [Nolegs] [ In reply to ]

Nov 15, 17 10:10

Post #98 of 117 Views: 4865

Yes, agreed about the rate of failure.

However, the failure modes of electronic shifting is, unfortunately, another issue entirely.

Advanced Aero TopTube Storage for Road, Gravel, & Tri...ZeroSlip & Direct-mount, made in the USA.
DarkSpeedWorks.com.....Reviews.....Insta.....Facebook
--

Re: Two ironmans messed up by SRAM Etap in less than one month. BEWARE! [DarkSpeedWorks] [ In reply to ]

Nov 15, 17 10:22

Post #99 of 117 Views: 4848

DarkSpeedWorks wrote:

Yes, agreed about the rate of failure.

However, the failure modes of electronic shifting is, unfortunately, another issue entirely.

Totally agree. Sort of reminds be back in the late 70's when GM switched their distributor from mechanical points and rotor to HEI. I thought, holy crap, how the heck do I work on this now? I'm not an electronic engineer. Guess what? This new electronic distributor completely blew away the older mechanical one.

Fast forward to today. Deja vu all over again. Don't fight the progress. Embrace it.

Re: Two ironmans messed up by SRAM Etap in less than one month. BEWARE! [Nolegs] [ In reply to ]

Nov 15, 17 10:29

Post #100 of 117 Views: 4834

Nolegs wrote:

DarkSpeedWorks wrote:

Yes, agreed about the rate of failure.

However, the failure modes of electronic shifting is, unfortunately, another issue entirely.

Totally agree. Sort of reminds be back in the late 70's when GM switched their distributor from mechanical points and rotor to HEI. I thought, holy crap, how the heck do I work on this now? I'm not an electronic engineer. Guess what? This new electronic distributor completely blew away the older mechanical one.

Fast forward to today. Deja vu all over again. Don't fight the progress. Embrace it.

Yes, but what is interesting is that, for piston-engined aircraft (where failure modes are VERY important), the vast majority of them still have all mechanical ignition systems, and dual redundant systems at that. Dual plugs, dual magnetos, dual everything. All mechanical.

It is not about fighting progress, it is more about the right product for the situation. Yes, of course, electronic works better. Except when it stops working. Then it is another issue entirely.

Advanced Aero TopTube Storage for Road, Gravel, & Tri...ZeroSlip & Direct-mount, made in the USA.
DarkSpeedWorks.com.....Reviews.....Insta.....Facebook
--

Re: Two ironmans messed up by SRAM Etap in less than one month. BEWARE! [Nolegs] [ In reply to ]

Nov 15, 17 10:42

Post #101 of 117 Views: 5626

Nolegs wrote:

DarkSpeedWorks wrote:

Yes, agreed about the rate of failure.

However, the failure modes of electronic shifting is, unfortunately, another issue entirely.

Totally agree. Sort of reminds be back in the late 70's when GM switched their distributor from mechanical points and rotor to HEI. I thought, holy crap, how the heck do I work on this now? I'm not an electronic engineer. Guess what? This new electronic distributor completely blew away the older mechanical one.

Fast forward to today. Deja vu all over again. Don't fight the progress. Embrace it.

It's funny, because as an IT guy, my comfort level goes;

electronic
mechanical
hydraulic

I'd much rather troubleshoot electronics than try to do tension perfectly, nevermind flushing hydraulic fluid...

The point is, ladies and gentleman, that speed, for lack of a better word, is good. Speed is right, Speed works. Speed clarifies, cuts through, and captures the essence of the evolutionary spirit.

Re: Two ironmans messed up by SRAM Etap in less than one month. BEWARE! [DarkSpeedWorks] [ In reply to ]

Nov 15, 17 10:50

Post #102 of 117 Views: 5617

DarkSpeedWorks wrote:

Yes, agreed about the rate of failure.

However, the failure modes of electronic shifting is, unfortunately, another issue entirely.

That is often overlooked. This topic is a perfect example. Dude's has had shifting problems for months and he can't figure out why. With mech finding out what's wrong is dead-simple.

Other slowtwitchers have posted similar questions. "Help e shifting is broken and I can't figure out why!" The intermittent problems are the worst. When was the last time a mech group did that? Worked, then didn't, then worked again, on and off? Never?

Re: Two ironmans messed up by SRAM Etap in less than one month. BEWARE! [Toby] [ In reply to ]

Nov 15, 17 11:03

Post #103 of 117 Views: 5601

Toby wrote:

I'd much rather troubleshoot electronics than try to do tension perfectly, nevermind flushing hydraulic fluid...

Of course, in a shop with the right equipment, troubleshooting electronics should be a cinch (well, ... emphasis on the "should be").

But in flight at 10,000 ft while losing altitude with an engine failure?
Or 60 miles out on a race course with 50 miles to go and people passing you while you're stuck in just one gear?

Uh, not so much ...

Advanced Aero TopTube Storage for Road, Gravel, & Tri...ZeroSlip & Direct-mount, made in the USA.
DarkSpeedWorks.com.....Reviews.....Insta.....Facebook
--

Last edited by: DarkSpeedWorks: Nov 15, 17 11:15

Re: Two ironmans messed up by SRAM Etap in less than one month. BEWARE! [DarkSpeedWorks] [ In reply to ]

Nov 15, 17 13:00

Post #104 of 117 Views: 5551

DarkSpeedWorks wrote:

Toby wrote:

I'd much rather troubleshoot electronics than try to do tension perfectly, nevermind flushing hydraulic fluid...

Of course, in a shop with the right equipment, troubleshooting electronics should be a cinch (well, ... emphasis on the "should be").

But in flight at 10,000 ft while losing altitude with an engine failure?
Or 60 miles out on a race course with 50 miles to go and people passing you while you're stuck in just one gear?

Uh, not so much ...

You like making dramatic claims with your airplane analogy. There are two problems with this: 1) we're talking about bicycles 2) it's called "fly-by-wire" for a reason.

To your race-course example, what's the difference between a an electronic shifting failure halfway through an IM and a cable snapping or a shift lever breaking? You might only lose one derailleur and not the other with electronic as well. Honestly, I think you're getting yourself into an emotionally anxious state out of fear, possibly by way of your airplane analogy, and it's made you irrationally afraid of potential failures from electronic shifting compared with potential failures from mechanical shifting. Personally, I have more faith that electronic shifting work correctly for me in a race than mechanical (and no one, to my knowledge, has actual data either way), so repetitions of failure scenarios and talk of airplanes doesn't persuade me. The former is not unique to electronic shifting, and the latter is just off-topic.

The point is, ladies and gentleman, that speed, for lack of a better word, is good. Speed is right, Speed works. Speed clarifies, cuts through, and captures the essence of the evolutionary spirit.

Re: Two ironmans messed up by SRAM Etap in less than one month. BEWARE! [Toby] [ In reply to ]

Nov 15, 17 13:13

Post #105 of 117 Views: 5542

My 2 cents I have Etap on my TT bike. Have no issues after 1 year.

Re: Two ironmans messed up by SRAM Etap in less than one month. BEWARE! [Nolegs] [ In reply to ]

Nov 15, 17 14:06

Post #106 of 117 Views: 5508

Nolegs wrote:

DarkSpeedWorks wrote:

Yes, agreed about the rate of failure.

However, the failure modes of electronic shifting is, unfortunately, another issue entirely.

Totally agree. Sort of reminds be back in the late 70's when GM switched their distributor from mechanical points and rotor to HEI. I thought, holy crap, how the heck do I work on this now? I'm not an electronic engineer. Guess what? This new electronic distributor completely blew away the older mechanical one.

Fast forward to today. Deja vu all over again. Don't fight the progress. Embrace it.

To counter that automotive analogy, let's take the case of my Mazda minivan. Automatic transmissions controlled using hydraulic "logic" have been used for 1/2 a century plus and are fairly reliable. Well, in the design of the transmission for this van, the "engineers" decided that they were going to go "all modern" and use electronically actuated solenoid valves (since the ECU could then control shifts) that were exposed to the high temperature transmission fluid. Guess what?..those valves don't last too long in that environment. And, guess what happens when they fail? Yup, total transmission failure. The first 2 transmissions in that van failed on my at 45-50K miles, like clockwork...

So, not only did they design in a device that has a higher failure rate under the conditions than the previous non-electronic equivalent, its failure mode also totally eliminated the transmissions function. In other words, it was no longer "fail safe".

That to me seems the more apt analogy to electronic drivetrains on bicycles.

http://bikeblather.blogspot.com/

Re: Two ironmans messed up by SRAM Etap in less than one month. BEWARE! [Toby] [ In reply to ]

Nov 15, 17 14:07

Post #107 of 117 Views: 5508

Toby wrote:

You like making dramatic claims with your airplane analogy. There are two problems with this: 1) we're talking about bicycles 2) it's called "fly-by-wire" for a reason.

Not trying to be dramatic, but there are important differences between mechanical shifting and electronic, say, shimano di2.

First, I gotta admit that electronic shifting (di2) is cool and it works better than mechanical (with some caveats, like charging the battery/s, etc.). And that improved function can be kinda intoxicating and can make one forget what happens when electronic shifting doesn't work. Because there are major qualitative differences between how mechanical shifting fails, and how electronic shifting fails.

Mechanical shifting can fail in a multitude of different ways, but it fails very rarely, and, when it does fail, very few of those failure modes leave a resourceful rider completely SOL.

Unfortunately, electronic shifting has only a couple of failure modes. And most of those failures do leave a rider SOL, or riding in only one gear, which is kinda the same thing.

Essentially, that was the only thing I was trying to say.

Advanced Aero TopTube Storage for Road, Gravel, & Tri...ZeroSlip & Direct-mount, made in the USA.
DarkSpeedWorks.com.....Reviews.....Insta.....Facebook
--

Last edited by: DarkSpeedWorks: Nov 15, 17 14:23

Re: Two ironmans messed up by SRAM Etap in less than one month. BEWARE! [RP29] [ In reply to ]

Nov 15, 17 14:28

Post #108 of 117 Views: 5485

RP29 wrote:

One month ago while racing in Kona after 30 min into the ride my rear derailleur started shifting on its own going all the way down to the 11th cog, when trying to bring it up then the front derailleur will shift, it was all over the place! I fist stopped and swap the batteries and seemed the problem was fixed, 10 min later did it again. Stopped again and disconnected the cables from the blip box tried to clean the plugs and plugged them again, again that seemed to work. 10-15min later happend again! Long story short I ended up getting off the bike 17 times in total loosing over 20min on the bike and completely messing up my race in Kona.

After the race I tried contacting SRAM directy, to my surprise there was no way of contacting them, had to be through a distributor /mechanic. I went see my local mechanic and explained him everything with all details, I even send him my garmin file so he or the guys from sram could see the 17 times I had stopped. Few days later they came back saying that the problem was on the rear derailleur which didn't make sense to me, it clearly looked like a short in the blip box connection but when the mechanic asked sram they replied saying they were the experts and they knew what they're doing so I trusted them, they sent a new rear derailleur and seemed to work fine.

After my bad experience in kona I decided to get "back on the horse" and race ironman los cabos yesterday. I was having a really good race, I was riding in second place and suddenly after 120k out no where the same issue from kona came back but this time it got stuck in the 54/11,i tried everything to fix it, I even replaced the battery from the blip box (I always carry a spare 2032 battery) and nothing worked. I lost 40min and had to finish my ride riding in a single speed (IM Los Cabos is not particularly flat!).

I still managed to finish 7th in my AG but far from a Kona slot which was the objective. It's hard to explain how frustrated I am, and all because of SRAM negligence!

If you are considering changing to Etap think it twice, and if you already race with it just be aware this could happen to you any time.

I hoping I can send back all my etap back and at least I want a clear explanation of what's happening and not just replacing a part thinking that would solve the problem which it clearly didn't work the first time!

Hate to break it to you but not far, it rolled down to 6th in our age group in Los Cabos. Looking at the results, you missed the spot by 27 seconds. If it means anything, the guy who got 6th was ecstatic from what I hear.

Last edited by: CP78: Nov 15, 17 14:29

Re: Two ironmans messed up by SRAM Etap in less than one month. BEWARE! [RP29] [ In reply to ]

Nov 15, 17 17:59

Post #109 of 117 Views: 5431

Hello RP29 and All,

You are probably aware of these hacks but it is a good idea to try shifting with just the 'Blip Box' (with the blips unplugged) and just use the button on the derailleurs occasionally so you are familiar in the event of failures. It is also a way to help isolate the location of a failure .... should it occur.

These hacks provide a possible way to lock into a particular gear combo with a partial failure ...... something not easily done with a mechanical system.

Oh .... and using only the 'Blip Box' in one hand you can scratch your ass (with both hands) and shift at the same time.

Try that with a mechanical system.

https://www.sram.com/...52tfdx10m62hs3g8m0fh

Cheers, Neal

+1 mph Faster

Re: Two ironmans messed up by SRAM Etap in less than one month. BEWARE! [RP29] [ In reply to ]

Mar 31, 18 21:59

Post #110 of 117 Views: 5034

OMG the exact same thing happened to me today on a training ride!!! Was working fine then on a descent I look down and all of a sudden its shifted all the way down to the 11th cog...and same thing tried to shift up and front Der shifts into small ring. Pulled over and stopped shifting altogether. I limped home and took it to my shop and they diagnosed it as a blip box issue. They swapped out the blip box with a new one and worked perfectly. I now have to contact SRAM to see if they will ship out a new blip box asap as Im right in the middle of a training bloc for IM Santa Rosa. So frustrating. I have never had any issues with DI2 ever.

Re: Two ironmans messed up by SRAM Etap in less than one month. BEWARE! [danstu4] [ In reply to ]

Mar 31, 18 22:25

Post #111 of 117 Views: 5008

danstu4 wrote:

It sounds like you have a bad blip. I have 2 go bad on me. Still love it tho. Nothing is going to work perfectly all the time every time

Wow I can’t believe how you can have such low standards.

Re: Two ironmans messed up by SRAM Etap in less than one month. BEWARE! [iamuwere] [ In reply to ]

Apr 1, 18 6:04

Post #112 of 117 Views: 4836

(My 2 paragraph rant on what I now realize was a months old thread.... deleted for being redundant)

Last edited by: JoeO: Apr 1, 18 6:10

Re: Two ironmans messed up by SRAM Etap in less than one month. BEWARE! [RP29] [ In reply to ]

Apr 1, 18 17:56

Post #113 of 117 Views: 4605

i had it happen couple of times - it is actually not a blip but the shifter button; i use clics and sometimes grime wd stuck there and make it in always on
thus when u try to upshift it thinks u pressing both and shofts front derailleur

Re: Two ironmans messed up by SRAM Etap in less than one month. BEWARE! [R2] [ In reply to ]

Apr 2, 18 7:06

Post #114 of 117 Views: 4424

I had the same issue with the 'ghost' shifting. It was isolated to the port in which my aerobar shifter was linked to. When I switched the blip to another port it worked seamlessly, and when I left the affected port open I was able to at least shift the bike instead of just automatically shifting to the 11 (and when trying to switch back up, automatically shifting the front derailleur due to the blipbox thinking the blip is held down).

All that being said I will not have another box with Etap. I have had too many issues already with it, and will go back to DI2. I won't go back to mechanical though - unless it is a road bike.

IG: NCGregory8778

Re: Two ironmans messed up by SRAM Etap in less than one month. BEWARE! [Toby] [ In reply to ]

Apr 2, 18 14:28

Post #115 of 117 Views: 4220

I'd much rather troubleshoot electronics than try to do tension perfectly, nevermind flushing hydraulic fluid...

I'm pretty handy around bikes, but that final tuning up of both rear and front derailleurs on mechanical bikes . . . it's something I could never get just right.

I'm currently test riding a Cervelo R5 with the new 2018 Shimano DA Di2, for a couple of stories that'm writing. I've ridden on electronic a few times before. I must say that Shimano has REALLY refined the shifting on Di2. I would now put it in the amazing category! Also, I've discovered how to fine tune the system in adjustment mode! in a world - brilliant.I can now fine tune a rear derailleur and get in shifting perfectly.

Also, on the demo bike from Cervelo, it has the newest version of Di2 that has the junction box and the battery in the right hand handlebar tube! So minimal wires running around outside. I often thought that looked strange - $10,000 bike with the junction box and the wires all hanging down under the stem. Looked kind of messy.

I've never been anti electronic - it's just that, well tuned mechanical, was so close, that the difference in rice did not seem worth it. But I may now be sold! I'm in the market for a new Road Bike, probably later on this year - will seriously look at Di2 for the new ride.

Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog

Last edited by: Fleck: Apr 2, 18 17:44

Re: Two ironmans messed up by SRAM Etap in less than one month. BEWARE! [Savage8778] [ In reply to ]

Apr 2, 18 17:43

Post #116 of 117 Views: 4114

i totally agree the whole blip should just go away

Re: Two ironmans messed up by SRAM Etap in less than one month. BEWARE! [nealhe] [ In reply to ]

Apr 30, 18 10:52

Post #117 of 117 Views: 3805

Hi RP29, Nealhe, all

RP29, what was the final outcome of this, did SRAM replace under warranty? Any other folks who got eTap replaced under warranty?

I fully empathize with RP29 - raced IM 70.3 Marbella yesterday and after hitting a hidden pothole (or smth) in full downhill, my whole eTap went haywire, chain shifted from big to small cog, and from the 11th to the 3rd... blips out of order - perfect disaster at 30 mph with 6 miles to go! Managed to get the chain on the big ring again with some luck and sudden blip-response, swapped the 2 derailer batteries yet clearly was not rational. Whole unit seems messed up now, either no response at all, or just for a second. This is not due to battery failure or humidity. Seems this has to go back for warranty :(.

Will check the manual/blip shifting functionality, learnt something today!

Still managed to retain a top10 ranking in my AG..

nealhe wrote:

Hello RP29 and All,

You are probably aware of these hacks but it is a good idea to try shifting with just the 'Blip Box' (with the blips unplugged) and just use the button on the derailleurs occasionally so you are familiar in the event of failures. It is also a way to help isolate the location of a failure .... should it occur.

These hacks provide a possible way to lock into a particular gear combo with a partial failure ...... something not easily done with a mechanical system.

Oh .... and using only the 'Blip Box' in one hand you can scratch your ass (with both hands) and shift at the same time.

Try that with a mechanical system.

https://www.sram.com/...52tfdx10m62hs3g8m0fh

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