Really.
Do you have anything that can back up your guessing??

So you even know why Amazon are looking for a HQ2?

Cheaper to operate somewhere else.

Yes, I'm quite familiar with it - personally, in fact. Tax rates, wage laws, and labor requirements. Good chance they end up here in God's Country, along with Foxconn.

Do you have any other questions?

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If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went. - Will Rogers

Emery's Third Coast Triathlon | Tri Wisconsin Triathlon Team | Push Endurance | GLWR

There is no state income tax in WA. That is very attractive for high earning, high skilled workers. I live in OR, I have many friends in Seattle. I tell them I pay a $12K per year "membership fee" to live in OR. There is give and take. In this case the companies have to give. Sure, move to Arkansas if it is cheaper, but you aren't going to find a lot of qualified employees.

Texas, Chicago, and Pittsburgh solve those problems while also being in the middle of the country.

As for knocking Arkansas, Wal-Mart and Tyson seem to being just fine.

Ha ha ha. This must be a joke

Nope. I have advised on the process.

Any other questions?

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If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went. - Will Rogers

Emery's Third Coast Triathlon | Tri Wisconsin Triathlon Team | Push Endurance | GLWR

Did Halvard really feel threatened by Forge?

Good to know that you know more than me about what is happening at Amazon.

Can you tell me why their restaurant selection is so small for delivery?

I would be willing to bet money I do.

Any other questions?

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If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went. - Will Rogers

Emery's Third Coast Triathlon | Tri Wisconsin Triathlon Team | Push Endurance | GLWR

It has been readily apparent Halvard is one of the more ignorant posters in the LR. I can see how someone as dimwitted as he would view an innocent comment as a threat. It is shame Dan has been forced to cater to the lowest common denominator here in the LR.

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If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went. - Will Rogers

Emery's Third Coast Triathlon | Tri Wisconsin Triathlon Team | Push Endurance | GLWR

I don't think you are aware of the fiscal downward spiral occurring in IL and Chicago in particular. Also, getting murdered and stuff. If you think moving to IL for tax purposes make sense, you probably already hired JSA as your lawyer.

That's a good comparison, I'm sure there is a lot of skills crossover between the employees of Tyson Foods and Amazon's workforce.

Other issues along with what you've already mentioned is office space. There is a concern the pace of new office space can't keep up with demand. I will also add to davec's post that we have a socialist council member named sawant who is openly hostile to amazon.

I have heard from a couple sources about how hostile certain Seattle officials have been/continue to be towards Amazon. Really makes me scratch my head. Of course, the tree huggers hate them as well.

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If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went. - Will Rogers

Emery's Third Coast Triathlon | Tri Wisconsin Triathlon Team | Push Endurance | GLWR

No chance. #1 criteria is town with high level university such as Carnegie Mellon.

You know where I live, right? You also know how IL lured Boeing, right?

We talking slaughtering chickens or management? More to my point, your dismissal of Arkansas as if it is Mississippi is just dumb.

Depends on the talent you need. It's really hard to get top programming talent (read: $500K+) outside of Silicon Valley and Seattle.

I have a buddy who moved his company from Silicon Valley to Texas absolutely sure it was a great business decision due to taxes, etc. He moved back a year later.

Uncle A. is on the right track. The Pittsburgh area is one of the "little Silicon Valley" competitors due to CMU.

No chance for Texas (a shitload of schools), Chicago (a shit load of schools), or Pittsburgh which has fucking CARNEGIE MELLON UNIVERSITY that you cited?

If going straight for college kids then Pittsburgh. Chicago has a fair amount and is attempting to attract tech companies or keep them (also a lot of Yinsers from CMU move here). Texas has a lot of H1B talent.

Was responding to the Arkansas comment. Damn iPad mini, I thought I highlighted it.

Come on, windy, give him a break. Tri_yoda lives in Idaho. He is too busy going to Klan rallies to pay attention to anything going on in the rest of the country.

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If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went. - Will Rogers

Emery's Third Coast Triathlon | Tri Wisconsin Triathlon Team | Push Endurance | GLWR

No worries. I'm not advocating for Arkansas at all, but it's not the backwoods worthy of immediate dismissal that triyoda implied.

And I thought those were just campfires to keep warm

Have you seen picture of tri_yoda? If there was ever a byproduct of inbreeding, it's tri_yoda. So, backwoods would be enticing to him.

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If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went. - Will Rogers

Emery's Third Coast Triathlon | Tri Wisconsin Triathlon Team | Push Endurance | GLWR

I have not, but I'm thinking a cross between Deliverance and The Reverant

Where in TX did he go. I thought Austin was the next Silicon Valley or the SV of the Midwest. My airline used to run regular flights between ATX and SJC quite a bit, it’s nickname was the nerd bird. 🤓

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ΜΟΛΩΝ-ΛΑΒΕ
we're doomed

When did you learn the second HQ would be in Alabama?

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________
It doesn't really matter what Phil is saying, the music of his voice is the appropriate soundtrack for a bicycle race. HTupolev

It won't.

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If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went. - Will Rogers

Emery's Third Coast Triathlon | Tri Wisconsin Triathlon Team | Push Endurance | GLWR

I'll bet you $25 that it will be Alabama if you take Wisconsin. If neither it is a draw. What say you?

Note, I don't care that you think you have inside information. My information is better.

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________
It doesn't really matter what Phil is saying, the music of his voice is the appropriate soundtrack for a bicycle race. HTupolev

No, it won't.

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If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went. - Will Rogers

Emery's Third Coast Triathlon | Tri Wisconsin Triathlon Team | Push Endurance | GLWR

Can I take the field?

Sure, at 2-48 odds.

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________
It doesn't really matter what Phil is saying, the music of his voice is the appropriate soundtrack for a bicycle race. HTupolev

Last guy who offered odds like that in the LR found himself unable to pay and had to slink back to his predatory lending business ...

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If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went. - Will Rogers

Emery's Third Coast Triathlon | Tri Wisconsin Triathlon Team | Push Endurance | GLWR

I may have not stated that right, or you are not reading that right. My intention is that if field wins, I pay windy $2 and if Ala/WI win, he pays me $48. In any even, I withdraw the original offer, and offer this.

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It doesn't really matter what Phil is saying, the music of his voice is the appropriate soundtrack for a bicycle race. HTupolev

It’s going to be Boston.

Trust me folks. It’s going to be yuuuuge.

I love how a guy who pushes the snack cart around the halls at Amazon thinks that he knows more about these types of decisions then a labour lawyer who has advised on the subject.

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Long Chile was a silly place.

Typical lawyer, can't do math.

Is it true that Halvard has auditioned, at least twice, for a Harvey Weinstein movie?

I'll take those odds with a wager of .045. If I win you owe me 4 pennys and a ha'penny if you win I owe you a dollar.

I heard he was the fluffer to get Harvey ready for when the talent showed up

Is it true that they are using things like taxes and wage laws as excuses because in reality they are terrified of the Really Big One?

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How does Danny Hart sit down with balls that big?

I've a buddy that moved to Arkansas to work for Wal-Mart. The picture he paints of the area is not the Arkansas that I vaguely picture(d). He makes it sound like a zone of really bright, hard charging folks working their asses off in a region with a low cost of living, great schools, and tons of outdoor recreation.

Wouldn't be hard for me to imagine Amazon opening HQ2 there. Also, there are strong parallels between the two businesses so a high percentage of the locals have useful experience.

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Books @ Amazon
"If only he had used his genius for niceness, instead of Evil." M. Smart

I love how you comment without actually knowing either one of them personally ;-)

Ha! If only you knew! I was at both of their weddings. I was in JSA's wedding party, and I was banging halvards wife before the ceremony while she was "getting ready with the girls".

/Pink

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Long Chile was a silly place.

One of the posters is slightly more credible than the other.

Kind of like an asteroid slightly missed the earth yesterday.

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How does Danny Hart sit down with balls that big?

Or so you think...

Are you trying to say that Halvard isn't really an idiot, that he only plays one on the internet?

Or that JSA is full of shit, which I have never found to be the case?

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How does Danny Hart sit down with balls that big?

I don’t know JSA.

I want to know how both are involved, let the LR decide!

Boston's gonna win, it has the perfect mix of talent (Harvard/MIT among many many other top universities); the mayor and governor are awesome and have experience with this having recently closed the GE deal and working through the casino logistics; there are two very strong possibilities for the HQ space (either the old Suffolk Downs race track, or right downtown at South Station); we already have their robotics division headquartered outside the city; and most importantly is there's just enough corruption in the government to grease the skids enough for a deal (see: Big Dig).

I'm torn on it though. Boston is already so incredibly expensive and housing can't keep pace with business needs so people are spilling further and further outside of downtown, commuting from 1.5-2+ away. How much more can the city/suburbs realistically absorb before it becomes SF East? It's turning into a place that only high wage earners and poor people can afford to live, million dollar homes or project housing is becoming the norm and that'll only accelerate with another 50K high wage jobs in the region.

I'm betting on Austin. One of the top ten CS programs in the country. No state income tax.
Still reasonably priced. Traffic is a cluster fuck but then compared to Seattle or Boston, it's no big deal.

Yeah Austin was actually my first thought when I heard about HQ2. I do think Boston has a real shot, and you cite Austin having one of the top 10 CS programs in the country--I mean, that's fine but MIT, Harvard, BU, Tufts, Northeastern, Amherst, UMass Amherst, Wellesley, Dartmouth in NH...you really can't cite 'CS programs' as a strength when comparing Austin to Boston. But I do think all things considered Austin has, on paper, the most attractive combination of factors, just a matter of how much these cities will bend over backwards to lure Amazon.

Except for MIT none of the CS programs you listed are ranked higher than UT.
HU is the next one and at the level of Rice, 2h away. And UT has a very large cohort.
Amherst, Tufts, and Co are not at the same level really.

Amazon is moving because it can't hire all the people it needs in Seattle and they hope that they can attract talent that doesn't want to live in Seattle to fill the 5,504 open positions they have. They have all the space they could ever need in Seattle.

Then Austin makes even more sense. The weather is nice. It doesn't rain all year long. Housing is (still affordable).
I don't think I said anything about space.

I was lazy and hit the nearest reply button

Sure I get that, but MIT is either 1 or 2, depending on the ranking, i.e. better than UT. And I see many rankings that have Harvard in the top-10, even ahead of UT. And my point listing the other universities is there are half a dozen in and around Boston that are top-50, another dozen within a 2 hour drive that are top-50. Both in top-level quality (MIT) and sheer quantity Boston has Austin beat. Here's the US News grad school rankings:
https://www.niche.com/...or-computer-science/

1. MIT (Boston)
4. Harvard (Boston)
7. Rice (2 hrs from Austin)
25. UT Austin (Austin)
27. Tufts (20 mins from Boston)
28. Northeastern (Boston)
37. Amherst (2 hrs from Boston)
38. Wellesley (30 mins from Boston)
41. Williams (3.5 hours from Boston)
52. WPI (45 mins from Boston)
59. SMU (3.5 hours from Austin)

Took that long to get a third school near Austin. Here's a grad school ranking:
https://www.usnews.com/...ter-science-rankings

2. MIT (Boston)
9. UT Austin (Austin)
18. Harvard (Boston)
20. Rice (2 hours from Austin)
25. UMass Amherst (2 hours from Boston)
40. Dartmouth (2 hours from Boston)
40. Texas A&M (2 hours from Austin)
48. BU (Boston)

Not the end-all, be-all but again, when it comes to university talent in the area you have to agree that Boston wins.

By plane? Williamstown is in NW corner of Mass near border of NY and VT.

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________
It doesn't really matter what Phil is saying, the music of his voice is the appropriate soundtrack for a bicycle race. HTupolev

Cool facts about Amazon in Seattle
https://www.amazon.com/b?ie=UTF8&node=17044620011

Those are cool facts and all those assets are a primary reason Amazon is looking to move away from tax-oppressed Seattle.

But, hey, don't let the facts get in the way.

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If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went. - Will Rogers

Emery's Third Coast Triathlon | Tri Wisconsin Triathlon Team | Push Endurance | GLWR

And this is how many open positions Amazon has in Seattle
5490 open jobs in Seattle, Washington

Not for long ...

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If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went. - Will Rogers

Emery's Third Coast Triathlon | Tri Wisconsin Triathlon Team | Push Endurance | GLWR

Interestingly it is not only Amazon that has a present in Seattle.
All that talent has helped propel Seattle to become the second best tech market in the nation, behind only San Francisco, according to a July report from real estate company CBRE. The report shows there are 136,910 tech jobs in Seattle, a 33 percent increase since 2011, and these workers are well-paid, with an average wage of $113,906.
https://www.geekwire.com/2017/100-town-tech-companies-set-shop-seattle-region-doubling-less-3-years/


Both Google and Facebook are building new offices here. Both will have more than 2,000 workers each.


It is getting crowded and more expensive.

BUT, Austin is in the middle of Texas. That is a huge drawback for many who value good education for their children, a woman's right to choose, and other reality based policies.

Arkansas is another state that was mentioned...Makes Austin, TX feel like you're in the Netherlands ;-)

Good catch, I was totally thinking of a different town. I'll update.

And a lot of that has to do with public policy in California, especially the bay area. Their housing policy is atrocious and responsible for really poor conditions for those not on the upper end of the pay scale. Plus, they all like to poach from each other.

I have complaints (a lot) but my home value has gone up %130 in 5 years and I am not in the city of Seattle which is the biggest bonus.

Hyperbole much?

However, Austin is an island of deep blue in the midst of a sea of red.

Austin's main achilles is its lack of a decent public transportation system, which was one of the top requirements listed by Amazon in their city search bid.

.

No, not hyperbole. I lived in Texas. It is a sh*thole. The weather sucks. The education system is broken. Everyone is seemed to the teeth. Brown people are second class citizens. The list goes on.

Los Angeles gives you 4 without cracking the top 25- there's at least a few geographies that would be a good place to recruit new grad CS talent in based on school ranking alone.

#5 CalTech
#9 USC
#15 Harvey Mudd
#21 UCLA

I live in Texas too and not originally from here. My experience in the last 20 years here and raising a family here is very different than yours I guess. Except the weather thing. The heat and relative lack of seasons is pretty tiresome. I'll probably be moving out of the state next year for something different.

.

Sure but Cal already has the Silicon Valley tech competition and a high tax burden. Plus it'd be West Coast HQ2, I'd think part of the plan would be have a different time zone for their second HQ.

I liked this quote from the article:

“It is our large employers who have benefited most from Seattle’s economic boom,” said Councilmember Kirsten Harris-Talley. “As a result, big business is best positioned to help relieve some of the pressure created by rapid growth. We need a systematic fix to help address the resulting lack of affordable housing and dearth of places for people to go. This is a solution that protects the most vulnerable in our city and will help small businesses thrive.”

Really? It's Amazon that benefitted from Seattle's economic boom? You sure it isn't the other way around?

I heard a piece on NPR yesterday about cities that are rolling out the red carpet to attract Amazon. And of course they had some economic expert on saying the benefits are big but no one considers the costs, like mroe schools/teachers that require public funding because these 50K employees will have kids. Yeah no shit sherlock! Does the need for more public services outweigh the 50K jobs, the ancillary benefits to the region, the tax benefits of those high wage jobs and multinational corporation moving into the area? Give me a fucking break, NPR is getting worse and worse.

We are just north of Seattle and our city was putting together what it described as a bid to attract HQ2, which I thought was an interesting way of describing it.

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Long Chile was a silly place.

amazon is the walmart of the digital age.

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ΜΟΛΩΝ-ΛΑΒΕ
we're doomed

Well of course it's a combination of both. Economics is like that.

But I'd argue that Amazon benefited from an existing hi-tech talent pool (thanks, Microsoft!), ability to attract workers to a nice place to live, proximity to top Universities, and (back when Amazon was about books), proximity to major book publishers.

Of course Seattle benefited from the influx of high-quality workers, tax revenue, etc.

They just had on the news how the town near me (upstate) NY has put a bid in on bringing the HQ here. They have a prime spot picked out for them and everything. It was also mentioned how they would have to vastly expand traffic patterns and infrastructure to accommodate them. Made me think maybe its not such a prime site after all. I would think they would pick a place that already has this in place and can aalready accomodate them. Although it would be nice if they came to this area... Could only help the area.

My state put together what they call a 'modest' bid. Basically we got no chance, but can't say we didn't try. Which is fine with me.

So why wouldn't Amazon do something like IBM? IBM HQ is fairly small compared to other blue chips (Armonk, NY).They have tons of other small sites in lower cost of living areas all around the country. There is a larger concentration of sites around HQ, all within an hour or two.

Beats me! I just saw the news story about Amazon and remembered this thread. If they put the HQ at the site they proposed, that will be huge boost to the area and economy. Shit, in the town I live in now, Mc Donald's of all places couldn't afford the rent and moved out... Out went Pizza Hut , KFC, BK... KMart.. It could only be a good thing for the community and communities surrounding it. I hope they get it but I have my doubts they will.

I'm just guessing....Buffalo?

They need anything to stimulate their economy.

No. But they are bidding too according to the report. I am across the Hudson river from Albany. I live in East Greenbush. The site they want it to go is right across the river from Albany in Rensselear right on river front property. The site primed and ready for something to be built there. Rensselear is just down the hill from East Greenbush.

Rochester or Buffalo?

Both have a few decent universities but I don't think either is a realistic option. I went to school in Rochester, it's a depressing place to live. Amazon would do wonders to the community but they're not looking at it as a community development opportunity, they're looking at it as a business opportunity and Rochester and Buffalo need far too many infrastructure changes and have far too many drawbacks (lack of talent, weather, relative size of city to absorb) as compared to other landing spots around the country. That's my take, at least. One of the biggies--Austin, Denver, DC, Boston, Pittsburgh, Chicago--is going to give them a sweetheart deal and that's where they'll land, imo.

In that case...where is the talent coming from? 50K mostly tech jobs, RPI is there but how much local talent is really available in that area?

Amazon is looking for an established community of tech workers, along with strong universities for future talent. Never mind the logistics of absorbing that many high-paying jobs in an area that has a tiny population, I mean what does the housing market look like, the school systems?

I just don't see any way Amazon goes with anything but one of the bigger metro areas, based on what they've said.

I dont know. But Global Foundries moved into the Malta area (just north of here) and they are a pretty big tech company. I think they are still expanding. We have SUNY Albany, SUNY Polytech (nano college) in the area. Plus I could see alot of people moving into the area for jobs. I work IT for the State and would consider making the jump. The talent doesnt have to be local. Unless Amazon specified that.. I dont know. I imagine people would come from all over looking for work no matter where they put the HQ. As for housing , again where ever they land you would see new housing developments going up.. We have some really good school systems and of course some really bad ones. We have basically 3 cities that is considered the capitol region. really short commute from either any of them. Just so you know I am trying to argue they will end up here. I am saying I hope they do but like you said... I doubt they will.

Ah, had a good friend grow up in Rexford. As one high school teacher told me "The industrial revolution came and went, what remains is upstate NY."

Caltech is in Pasadena, and Harvey Mudd is in Claremont. #notlosangeles

LOL!! Boy isn't that the truth!!!

Toledo, Detroit, Ann Arbor, Dayton.... I'm sure they're getting offers from a shit ton of other cities...

http://www.13abc.com/...n-HQ2-447755013.html

Denver put a bid together but it was more just telling them how much they would save based on the number of employees in tax breaks but not much. Given that we can’t figure out our current transportation issues I don’t have a problem with it.

Those distinctions would be lost on anyone outside of greater LA.

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Books @ Amazon
"If only he had used his genius for niceness, instead of Evil." M. Smart

Stopped reading after two pages.


Question: why is everyone assuming that Amazon would want an HQ near universities with great CS programs? They aren't Apple or Google. An enormous part of their business is shipping, warehousing, logistics, marketing, building business relationships, and expanding into new markets. Sure, they've got a good website, but hell, for all we know they might even outsource that.

Correct me if I'm wrong. I don't work a snack cart at Amazon, but I do know a couple of people who work there.

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-----------------------------Baron Von Speedypants
-----------------------------RunTraining articles here:
http://forum.slowtwitch.com/...runtraining;#1612485

They are absolutely like Apple or Google. Most of their growth in recent years has been in "cloud computing." They host Netflix and Dropbox, for example. You couldn't be more wrong about outsourcing their Web site. Amazon Web Services (AWS) is the go-to service for other business outsourcing Web services. They offer "cloud" storage, CPU, etc. cheaper than anyone is able to. Their warehouse automation and worldwide logistics are 2nd to none. They have huge teams working on self-driving delivery vans and aircraft. They are flat-out scary.

This is a not like an "Amazon Fulfillment Center" The HQ is where the top programming talent goes.

As someone in pst who works for a company in est, I can tell you that having your HQ in a different timezone is no fun for the HQ or the satellite offices. The politically acceptable meeting window is 6 hours at best. My beginning of the day is the lunch time on the east coast. Noone's happy about 9am or noon meetings.

In reality, Amazon may use its HQ2 location hunt just like it uses press releases - to destroy competition without delivering the actual product. If it chooses Los Angeles, it will literally starve the local studios of any worthwhile IT talent. There is simply no more than 2-3k of available IT workers at any given point in time. Amazon will simply suck all the oxygen out of the room. If it lands in Bentonville, WM is fucked for the same reasons. And so on. Right now, AMZN seems to have AAPL and FB in its cross-hairs, so some West Coast location might make sense.

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Next races on the schedule: none at the moment

Learn something new every day. Problem is, I forget something old every day, too.

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-----------------------------Baron Von Speedypants
-----------------------------RunTraining articles here:
http://forum.slowtwitch.com/...runtraining;#1612485

resurrecting this thread with the announcement today and the discussion in October

Top 20 as announced here

• Atlanta
• Austin
• Boston
• Chicago
• Columbus, Ohio
• Dallas
• Denver
• Indianapolis
• Los Angeles
• Miami
• Montgomery County, Md.
• Nashville
• Newark
• New York City
• Northern Virginia
• Philadelphia
• Pittsburgh
• Raleigh, N.C.
• Toronto
• Washington, D.C.

Not really too surprising when one of their requirements was international airport if I remember right.

This isn’t much a short list yet. 20 major cities is what I would have expected before all the present you proposal stuff.

What’s interesting with Denver for instance, is that the city offered nothing for tax breaks etc from my understanding, but still in the running.

I think everyone who's done even ten minutes of research into this thing could've come up with 15 of those 20 cities. No real surprises there, wake me when they narrow down to a top3 or 5.

My guess, this is Amazon doing a little screw-turning, getting this back in the news and announcing to each city 'look at your competition, you know who's offered tax incentives and perks and who hasn't, step up your game'.

Toronto is on that list and they made a point of saying that they weren't giving any big ticket incentives. The whole spiel was about Canadians working for less money, investing in a highly skilled workforce, etc. And probably (behind closed doors) hedging against whatever Trump does.

They don't stand a chance though.

Biggest non surprise? JSA was wrong as per usual.

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===============
Proud member of the MSF (Maple Syrup Mafia)

I’m throwing my bet in right now: Boston

Toronto's housing costs pretty much precludes any move there. Amazon Canada's warehousing is pretty scattered, poorly coordinated and has to be costing them piles extra shipping. Eg. I ordered 7 grocery items last week, the order was fulfilled from 3 different warehouses. That, IMO is pretty bad supply chain management.

They're about to open two more: one in Calgary and the other in Cornwall. Prime in Calgary/Edmonton and Ottawa/Montreal is about to get a whole lot better.

Amazon is known for a lot of things. Bad supply chain management isn't one of them. I hope to all hell if they come to Atlanta, it better be on the south side. Like close to Macon south side.

That maybe, but IMO good supply chain means holding good inventory levels all the time. Looks to me like someone isn't grasping the geographic challenges of the Canadian market. (fwiw all the items I purchased were their top 100 list of grocery items)

Word is they are negotiating for a 500,000 sq foot space in the Seaport District, with an option for another 500,000 sq feet.

Look, I'm not going to debate you about Amazon's command of supply chain. They are putting incredibly large and previously profitable companies out of business because of their SCM. And there is no stopping that in the near term. But you're right, they probably have no clue about the geographic challenges of the Canadian market.

Well, tbh Amazon maybe killing business in the US, but the failure of Sears Canada for example was because of Sears Canada. Amazon's business model isn't new, it's ability to capitalize on new market conditions isn't new, Sears inability to adapt isn't new, the only thing that is new is the scale and I'm not even sure of that.

I think I read the article right, it amounts to $100 per year per employee. A company is going to move over $100 an employee????

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Just Triing
Triathlete since 9:56:39 AM EST Aug 20, 2006.
Be kind English is my 2nd language. My primary language is Dave it's a unique evolution of English.

Good supply chain management does not always include carrying a bunch of inventory. That is a good way to go belly up if you get in a cash pinch and have a bunch of money tied up in inventory.

Plus, the product may have been “fulfilled by Amazon” and shipped from any number of sub-suppliers.

drn92

except for the lack of massive profits.
they have a cool gimmick for "free cash flow", but in their case it really is a gimmick and doesn't correspond to the profits you would expect with free cash flow numbers like they have.

Spoke to a friend about this, same one I actually mentioned earlier in the thread. He picked Pittsburg, its becoming a tech hub and that city has the most to offer, including an airport that isn't being used to capacity. I wouldn't be against him.

As a Seattle resident, I am delighted to see them moving some of their business out town. It will put less pressure on infrastructure and home prices. I don't see them leaving entirely, given the skilled labor they need.

Good supply chain means holding minimal inventory levels at all times. The whole point of a good supply chain is to make someone else hold your inventory. I have to believe Amazon owns very little of its own inventory and puts it at warehouses closest to the biggest users.

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TEAM HD
Each day is what you make of it so make it the best day possible.

Market domination is a "cool gimmick?" Amazon is scary. The only thing standing in their way from owning the the entire planet is...Walmart.

Amazon likes to re-invest revenue into growth instead of feeding it back to shareholders. That's not a gimmick. And, so far, shareholders have exactly zero reason to complain about that. It's still growing like crazy despite being a 20-something year-old company.

Ha. I wish the distributors in my industry believed this. They sit on so much tertiary inventory dollars that could be put to many better uses.

drn92

Let me give you some, advice. It is a gimmick.

Amazon has already grown to what, the third largest company in the world? Let's look at some actual numbers:

Cash position
Apple #1 - $261 billion
Google #2 - $133 billion
Amazon #13 - $24 billion

2016 profits
Apple #1 $45.7 billion
Google #5 $19.5 billion
Amazon ? $2.3 billion


By these numbers, Amazon isn't even remotely comparable to Apple or Google. If Amazon could double their profits every year for the next 4 years they still would be behind Apple. Think about that. Look at the Amazon share price, even the P/EG and think about "investing" in Amazon.

automotive hold hours, stock turns in the hundreds per year

mini in UK have less than 4 hour call off contracts

large inventory makes zero sense, consignment may make some sense but the real trick is hold nothing and have someone else eat it

Which in general is the person who can least afford It but must in order to keep the business.

The goal for us is to be running out of product just as the next manufacturing lot finishes.

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_____
TEAM HD
Each day is what you make of it so make it the best day possible.

If a supplier is consistently short of stock or has to order fulfill from a depot that takes longer to deliver, I find a better supplier. I supply to 3 industries that when things break or are in production the clock is ticking. This precisely why I think Acklands-Grainger won't be around much more than another 5 years in Western Canada.

Questions re: Pittsburgh, just devils advocate:
--Carnegie Mellon would be a huge draw obviously, what other top universities (especially with legit CS programs) are in that region?
--I can't imagine they have any international shipping ports in Western PA...anyone know if having easy access to ports is a consideration?
--What's their public transit system like? I know that's a priority for Amazon

I've been to Pittsburgh once, when I visited CM in HS and honestly, if I hadn't visited the city I probably would have gone there...it felt like the campus was a stones throw from some shitty neighborhoods and the city just looked like shit to me. But that was 20 years ago and I have no idea what's happened there, good bad or otherwise, since then.

I've heard Seaport - and with everythign else going on there I don't know HOW you fit in a bohemith like Amazon, they'd have to totally reconfigure public transit to make it work at a minimum. I've heard Suffolk Downs, which makes all kinds of sense given proximity to the airport and downtown but they'd have to do something about highway access I'd think (though admittedly I never drive through that area), and really the surrounding neighborhoods aren't exactly the best in the city so that might be a big drawback. And just recently I heard Somerville for the first time, I have NO idea where, I'm actually interested to hear because that town is so packed in as it is and the public transit is shaky at best.

I'm cautiously optimistic, regardless...given my profession and where I live (495 loop) it'd be a fantastic boost to compeittion in my industry and housing prices, without any impact to my neighborhood/commute...win/win!

I'm North of Pittsburgh and it has changed dramatically in 20 years. However, there are still shitty neighborhoods just a stone's throw away from many good areas but there has been a substantial amount of work to improve the city. But there are shitty neighborhoods just a stone's throw away from good ones everywhere in the world. In regards to public transportation, it's just ok, mostly buses. However, as someone said earlier, the airport has a huge amount of space available and they have been continuing with upgrades.

I like Pittsburgh and my wife and I go there for weekends often. Their restaurants and theatres are improving as well as the refurbished and new hotels. Downtown is easy to get around and many areas are within walking distance so the public transportation downtown isn't really a big deal.

The biggest downfall in Pittsburgh is the traffic can be a pain in the ass. With so many bridges and tunnels, it gets tied up pretty good at times.

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TEAM HD
Each day is what you make of it so make it the best day possible.

U of Pittsburgh, Penn State isn't far, Cleveland isn't far either. Not sure how good duquesne university is, just know their basketball team sucks.
No idea on the public transit system.
Also not sure on the shipping ports either, but the underutilized airport may compensate for that.

Yah, the rush to the Seaport has totally outstripped the transport infrastructure for sure. Not even 10 years ago it was basically the cheap mudflat parking lots for the Financial District crowd, with Whiskey Priest hanging out there all by its lonesome. Times change.

I heard Somerville for the first time on the radio this morning; no idea where they’d put themselves. Agree on Suffolk Downs - the driving around there is awful IMO.

I’m torn on wanting them to come here. I do a lot of work in tech and so can see the benefits there, but my wife and are starting to think about buying a house, and it already seems like an insoluble problem trying to align commute and school districts with something affordable...add in thousands of New well-compensated amazon employees looking for a place to live and we will be truly screwed. I guess there’s always Worcester or Nashua...:)

Get in while the gettin's good! (or at least not SF-level bad :) )

We just held our noses and made the plunge in November, I work in Wellesley and the wife works in Chelmsford so we thankfully could look pretty far outside Boston and settled on Chelmsford, which is a nice town, solid schools and hasn't yet become totally unaffordable.

But I could see, if Amazon had HQ2 here, Boston becoming a legit SF 2.0, I jsut don't know how you avoid it when you already have so much hospital and university influence, a growing tech sector, the seaport explosion and THEN Amazon as a cherry on top. It'd be a boon to the housing market for a decade but man, I couldn't imagine staying here long-term given the already nasty traffic issues and I just don't know how you solve the massive disparity between the tech/medical/university professionals and everyone else.

So my very selfish view: bring Amazon here, my house doubles in value the next decade, wife and I take our winnings and move to some part of the country that isn't a complete nightmare for housing and overpopulation/commuting.

Question? Yes I am waiting for your view on the 20 city short list.

I read a comment someone made this morning: Where ever gets awarded HQ2, be ready for $2000 rent for a 2 bedroom apartment.
My thought? That means rents are going down! Sweet! I welcome our new smiling overlords.

I fully agree that there are specific needs to stock inventory, but ultimately someone pays the price for holding all that product. As long as the cost of holding inventory can be made up in price, you are good. But someone, somewhere, is paying for it.

drn92

Ha, love it! I do envy some of these growing tech hubs like Austin, Columbus and most of NC, the towns are being built with modern planning and infrastructure capabilities, they're young and affluent so can get most things right, and they mostly have the space to expand beyond where they are now. Boston is a fucking nightmare of ancient public transit, the most confusing downtown street system ever, crumbling infrastructure and it's insanely difficult to expand from where it is now.

I REALLY wish they were considering something outside Boston proper, if you stick HQ2 out by the 495 loop you have a number of regional airport options, Boston just 45 minutes away, and the area could be built out smartly to accommodate the expanding population and transit needs, while not completely fucking over Boston residents with an influx they just acn't handle. Not to mention, Amazon already has their robotics division out there (Reading, I believe?) and there's a ton of tech along that 95/495 corridor, that's where the tech talent is living anyway.

Seattle public officials are quite frequently bemoaning Amazon's success and expansion in Seattle due to rising rents, home prices and traffic. Of course, some of this is due to piss poor city planning. Its funny they never mention the taxes they're getting, the agglomeration effect and the benefit to industries serving Amazon and their employees. Our local paper is sometimes quite negative toward Amazon.

Everyone has their tipping point with population density, commuting and traffic and public transit issues, regardless of the taxes being raised if it leads to longer commute times, parking headaches, issues with public transit and more difficulty finding affordable housing people will complain.

And that's the problem with Boston (and a number of the other cities on the list, based on what I know of them): they're already past most peoples tipping points. My wife and I live an hour outside Boston because anything close is just too congested, and even then the highways are jam packed during commute time. I can't even imagine the impact a 500K sq ft complex and 20K professional workers would do to the seaport, Suffolk Downs or Somerville areas, these are NOT places that are easy to get around in on the best days, traffic is already a nightmare and the MBTA is complete dogshit.

I think the majority of the CITIES on this list would love for HQ2 to be brought in, I think business owners in those cities are dying for it to happen...but I'd imagine the majority of citizens want absolutely nothing to do with it, unless they happen to be in tech.

As someone who works in (the original) seaport, it's bad. Silver line is already beyond capacity and half the buildings aren't even finished, nor has GE moved. There are something like 6 shuttles that go from South Station to various buildings down here.

We're probably going out to metrowest end of this year/lease.

<<And that's the problem with Boston (and a number of the other cities on the list, based on what I know of them): they're already past most peoples tipping points. My wife and I live an hour outside Boston because anything close is just too congested, and even then the highways are jam packed during commute time. I can't even imagine the impact a 500K sq ft complex and 20K professional workers would do to the seaport, Suffolk Downs or Somerville areas, these are NOT places that are easy to get around in on the best days, traffic is already a nightmare and the MBTA is complete dogshit.>>


Exactly. I live in Dorchester, work in Kendall Sq - roughly an 11 mile commute and it routinely takes me an hour each way if I have to drive. Redline on the T is slightly faster, except when it craps the bed, which it does at least once a week (though I give Baker some credit for making it less bad than it was when he came into office). And housing prices in our part of Dorchester are exploding. We rent right now, our landlords bought the house about 6 years ago for around $260k, it could now easily sell for north of $500k.

<<So my very selfish view: bring Amazon here, my house doubles in value the next decade, wife and I take our winnings and move to some part of the country that isn't a complete nightmare for housing and overpopulation/commuting.>>

It's not a bad plan. I am more seriously thinking about whether we could move back to my hometown in Madison, Wisconsin. There's enough tech and bio activity there that I could probably do my professional thing there at reasonable level, and while the family I've got there complain about the development and traffic, they have no idea how soul-crushing a Boston commute can be or that people can spend close to a million dollars for one floor of a three-decker :). It'd be tough because I've got 15 years of professional development under my belt here and my wife's family all live in Mass. so I don't think she'd go for it, but honestly I'm starting to think continuing to live here may not be a smart move.

Sure, but in some cases the tipping points are quicker because cities haven't planned appropriately or do not address items that are relatively easy. I drive into downtown Seattle, now because I want to, I tried taking the bus but the when I tried I routinely was passed up because the buses were full. Not hard to solve that problem.

Not sure it's an option, and it's totally tangential in this thread, but why not look out around the 95/495 belt for jobs, then you can head out to the outskirts of 495 and into NH for much more affordable housing. Lots of jobs in those areas and while housing has exploded in some of those 495-loop towns there are pockets were it's still affordable and grown.

I really think with the growth in and around Boston that those areas will continue to boom for the foreseeable future and it'd make for a smart investment too, in addition to saving you the commuting headache :)

I co-own my law firm, so don't really need to 'look' for a job, per se. And to your point about geography, my partner lives in Providence and only comes into Boston about once a week, so we can certainly do the job remotely. There is however a value in having an in-person presence in town, esp. in the Kendall Sq. area - to steal a line from Top Gun, it's a 'target rich environment' :), and we look more legit if we can have people come to our office in a part of town that jibes with our practice area. Still, my wife and I may end up having to move outside the 128 to have something approximating the home/school life we're looking for. And we may move our firm's offices out to the 128 - rent in Kendall is getting pretty steep, and we have lots of clients on the 128 as well, so physical presence there is explainable.

A couple cities in Texas, Austin / DFW would seem to be promising. Low taxes, relatively low cost of living. DFW has an international airport, is a hub for American and Southwest airlines. Amazon has also been building/hiring for warehouse work in the DFW area for a while. Prime is sweet here with a number of items on same day/ 1 hour delivery.

https://www.seattletimes.com/...s-street-in-seattle/

Where the hell are the cops? Seven people lay down in a downtown intersection, disrupting traffic for hours and the cops do nothing.

In 10 years Amazon will have a very small footprint in a Seattle.

My wife is a senior VP with Microsoft and she is getting multiple ph9ne calls fr9m her amazon counterparts looking for jobs.

Welcome to the SSR - Seattle socialist republic.

As Theoden said at the beginning of the battle of helm’s deep,

“So it begins”

https://www.seattletimes.com/...siders-business-tax/

I thought that Amazon leased one of the new high rises in Bellevue. They should start to migrate there. Funny about this is Expedia is giving up their Bellevue office space to move to Seattle.

The Seattle City Council is awful.

I'm not sure how many of their employees are eligible to vote.

I saw this story and I was just like, "what did they expect?"

I like how the story says that Amazon is threatening Seattle. Sad.

They create a tax that (I assume) affects just Amazon, and expect them to just bend over and ask for more?

It affects Amazon the most. Expected tax revenue is $76 million a year of which Amazon would have to pay about $20 million.

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I miss YaHey

I don't know if this is wishful thinking or a subtle announcement or a mistake or what...

but as I was entering Markham, Ontario this morning (all the articles say "Toronto" is an Amazon HQ2 finalist but it's actually Markham (just outside of Toronto)) the sign for Markham has been changed to say "Home of Amazon HQ2".

I don't see any news about this. So wishful thinking on their part? or "Oops, we announced it before it was announced"?

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How does Danny Hart sit down with balls that big?

Nothing in the Googles yet about a selection.

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The secret of a long life is you try not to shorten it.
-Nobody

Yeah I checked that. So that's why I am wondering if it's just wishful thinking or if they have won the bid and someone screwed up and changed the sign too early.

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How does Danny Hart sit down with balls that big?

http://www.cbc.ca/...n-s-2nd-hq-1.4649672

"Road-side signs as people enter the city of Markham now have a little something extra — a smaller. bright orange sign underneath proclaiming it the "Possible Future Home of Amazon HQ2"
The word "possible" is made to look hand-written in a purposely harder-to-read lighter colour and smaller font, of course."

Fooled me. I missed "Possible" for sure.

That's really lame.

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How does Danny Hart sit down with balls that big?

And now, after passing the head tax with a 9-0 vote, Seattle's city council has repealed it with a 7-2 vote.

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I miss YaHey

And one of the 2 to vote against blamed conservatives!! As if there are any in Seattle.

With 7 council members up for reelection in 2019 it will be interesting to see how the voters respond to the ineffectiveness of the current council.

There is no plan to deal with the homeless other than to tax, tax and tax some more.

https://www.geekwire.com/...ivision-nearby-city/

And so the exodus continues.

Not good for me. I live east of Bellevue and this just worsens already bad east side traffic.

Really too bad those employees won't be able to ride the South Lake Union Trolly to work every day. Commute will be way more boring.

“We opened our first office building in Bellevue in 2017. It’s a city with great amenities, a high-quality of life for our employees, and fantastic talent – and it’s recognized for its business-friendly environment. We look forward to continue growing our presence in Bellevue and bring more jobs to the city.”


Zing!

I just watch this video. Really pathetic, the progressive and their good intentions are letting a great city, slide into a shit hole.-

I'm 15 minutes in and I'm giving up. Does it ever offer any solutions beyond "give the police more authority" or is it a Sinclair attempted hit piece on liberals in Seattle?

It is one thing to acknowledge that a city faces issues when it becomes a draw for homeless people. And it is easy to take potshots by saying "somebody should do something". But it is another to find actual solutions other than criminalizing homelessness.

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I'm beginning to think that we are much more fucked than I thought.

Yep hard to watch and it is a very complicated problem but it seems Seattle is doing it wrong (along with San Francisco). Skip to 44:00 for a solution.

I don’t think they have good intentions.

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Civilize the mind, but make savage the body.

- Chinese proverb

Hells no. They are purposely trying to give everyone noise cancer.

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How does Danny Hart sit down with balls that big?

Yeah, don’t they know that if you criminalize homelessness only criminals will have homeless people?

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Proud member of the MSF (Maple Syrup Mafia)

Good intentions to make them selves feel good?

Any time you marginalize or make anything acceptable, you can expect to see a lot more of it. It really is that simple. Just like calories in vs calories out in weight loss.

So then you have to ask yourself what is reasonable. You can't outlaw homelessness, but you can criminalize panhandlng, camping in public areas, etc. to dissuade people from doing that in your city.

My favorite part of this video is at 38:00 when the communist council woman gets a taste of her own medicine. She is shouted down for proposing a head tax. It's gold Jerry pure gold!!

There are a lot of factors in play. And it is something that has been building for quite a while. The root cause of crime is something that I have studied and been interested in since I switched to a philosophy major in 1992. And I think the US does a really really bad job of addressing it.

In the '80's we decided to cut federal funding for mental health (I could take a potshot at Reagan but after almost 40 years and 16 years of holding the presidency I haven't see the Democrats trying to change course either). At the same time we were reducing housing funding. And the states had no interest in upping funding for either.

And for years people have been freaking out if prisons have robust education systems because "why should they get free education for committing crimes?"

And prison systems have not tried very hard to do real drug rehab like what they are attempting in RI.

Make me king, because only I can fix this, and we'd try something different in prisons and sentencing. Drug treatment and education would be at the forefront of prisons. A lot of sentences would be much more indeterminate and if you didn't complete drug treatment and education you aren't getting out very soon.

I hate when I hear people complain about making prisons too soft. It is stupid. Make them hellholes and treat the inmates like animals and that is how they will come out. All but a very few are coming back into society. Do we really want them coming out a lot worse than they went in?

And I think as a society we need to find a better way to treat the mentally ill. I don't have that answer but it is easy to see what we are doing is not working for a lot of people.

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I'm beginning to think that we are much more fucked than I thought.

Sure you can. Starve those fuckers! If they want to sleep, make them sleep on pavement!

Any other “Modest Proposals”, Mr Swift?

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Proud member of the MSF (Maple Syrup Mafia)

There are plenty of laws on the books. In most part these laws are thought out to make a better and fairer society. Trouble comes when do gooders who do not believe in anything close too tough love, ignore these laws.
We seem to grasp this concept when it comes to animals 'Don't feed the Bears' but some people choose to ignore these rules of nature.

I readily admit I don't have the answers but you are advocating this is a crime and therefore making people criminals. The same people who don't have money to pay for necessities will now be expected to pay fines and court costs. How are they going to pay for their crimes? I'm guessing you are including potential prison sentences. How does this work to help solve the problem?

“Homelessness is not a choice. Homelessness is one of the most potent examples of disadvantage in the community, and one of the most important markers of social exclusion.” (Department of Human Services, 2002).

According to the Salvation Army, https://www.salvationarmy.org.au/...are-people-homeless/

These are the top reasons for being homeless.

• Family violence
• A shortage of affordable housing
• Physical and/or mental health issues
• Unemployment or job loss
• Drug and alcohol abuse and addiction
• Family and relationship breakdown
• Not feeling safe at home

Why don't we work on these problems first before making people criminals.

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TEAM HD
Each day is what you make of it so make it the best day possible.

I think a good place to start is do a little triage. divide the homeless into groups or levels of need from the ones that are just hard on there luck, to the revolving cell door criminals and the many groups in between.

Some may just need some counseling and job training to give them a leg up.

A lot of them need a place like the RI rehab.

Some are too far gone, hopeless and just need to be locked up for good.

But just letting homeless plant a tent anywhere they feel and using the city as a toilet and a dump sounds stupid to me and I am a damn libertarian.

Education is a great idea but it would definitely cut into the profits of the private prison system. What's more important, a good rehabilitation method or profit. Obviously profit, you don't want to improve a system that will potentially reduce the number of people using it.

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TEAM HD
Each day is what you make of it so make it the best day possible.

This sounds like a pretty good start. I would agree there needs to be some division so each groups issues can be addressed.

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TEAM HD
Each day is what you make of it so make it the best day possible.

Some are too far gone, hopeless and just need to be locked up for good.


Are you saying this about the chronically homeless or repeat criminals? If you are applying to the homeless I would say that is whackadoodle. If criminals then I agree. At some point we need to figure out how to protect society from people who continually commit crimes. 3 strikes and a life sentence is too harsh. But there has to be a point. Maybe we could ship them to Australia.

But just letting homeless plant a tent anywhere they feel and using the city as a toilet and a dump sounds stupid to me and I am a damn libertarian.


If society has provided other means for them to get housing I can't say I really disagree. But we run into problems when it comes to those who will refuse those alternatives. I have an extremely hard time incarcerating people because they are poor, no matter how much they refuse help.

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I'm beginning to think that we are much more fucked than I thought.

In the video they show people that have gone through the legals system upward to a hundred times. IMO this is ridiculous.

Maybe the can set up a nice clean tent city in the boonies somewhere. Where the land is cheap, and they can somewhat control/police the masses, they could supply soup kitchens, medical, counseling and a free bus rides daily into town if they need to work.

This would be a lot cheaper then giving them housing, which will just enable a lot of them and they will destroy the property.

The money saved could go to rehab, security and counseling groups.
You could also have different areas set up for the needs of the homeless.

Haha, Typical liberal response. I didn't say starve them and I didn't say make them sleep on the pavement. There is legal and illegal. If it is illegal to camp in public areas then doing so is a crime. There are other places that they could camp. Like say camp grounds, etc.. Declaring that you are homeless does not give you the right to do what you please and ignore the law. If there are mental issues, that is what needs to be addressed. That may mean being removed from the streets to address said problem. If they don't want the type of help offered, then that is on them. If they can't make that choice, then we have a responsibility to make that choice for them.

The whole idea of hands off the homeless is a stupid idea. And thinking that societies rules don't apply to those that have mental issues and can't help themselves or those who choose to ignore them is dumb as well.

I'm not proposing a solution for the homeless, I'm proposing a solution to making our cities and neighborhoods better. The solution for the homeless needs to be addressed.

There are 3 types of homeless:
1. Mental Illness
2. Hard luck
3. Choice

Only number 1 is truly the responsibility of society to care for. Number 2 must work through their problems and may deserve a hand up. Number 3, we owe nothing to.
I am in favor or providing a lot of help to number 1 (if it helps). I'm o.k. with helping number 2 (job training, opportunities, etc, but not just a handout).

But in any of the 3 cases, it doesn't permit them to ignore laws or societal rules.

Sounds like a makeshift prison.... Where do the utility services (bathroom facilities) come from? Who pays for it. How does this help the situation? And what stops them from coming back?

Will first you have to name it. Maybe something... Like "Camp compassion", And nobody has to stay there you just can't set up camp in the city any more. You can either go to Camp Compassion or go to jail.

According to the video they are already spending over a billion a year in Seattle and it is just getting worse. This solution would be way cheaper with tents, kitchens, public restrooms and all. And the hard working people of Seattle would get their city back.

Your breakdown of three types is spot on. The challenge is determining how to know which category someone falls into. When hard luck comes our way, we get a little ill in the head. When we are ill in the head we make more bad choices. Most of us have people around us that help prop us up, and we don't spiral down the rabbit hole - but this is a common cycle, one that reasonable people understand. How do we measure the differences?

How would you prevent them from leaving? From a Constitutional law perspective, I mean.

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War is god

Like anything you have to give a better incentive to go to the camp than stay on the street.

There is no budging on this. No camping, pissing, shitting, doing drugs in the city. Go to the camp where you are treated like a human or go to the pound and be treated like a mangy dog.

I'm with you, I think, but we're going to have to come up with a different word than "camp." ;-)

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War is god

Haha good point.

Or go elsewhere and the next town can deal with you. (like John J Rambo)

Either way problem solved:

Is this a start?


Edit: Stupid editor formatting issue.

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War is god

I'm not sure how much you notice Victoria's homeless problem in your area, but, it is a pretty big deal downtown, much like Seattle. And, like Seattle, we have a hard, hard left leaning (completely tipping over, actually) council and mayor who seem to just invite more and more homeless people and their activity and behavior to the city with their policies.

People bitch about being cold hearted, but, Im not sure how a municipality of 80,000 can solve a country of 35,000,000's homeless problem. So, yes, enforce the fucking laws.

As much as I hate adding to the federal government,I feel the only way to fairly address this is make it a federal issue and hit other provinces in the pocketbook for not having their own resources to deal with their share of the homeless.

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Long Chile was a silly place.

I don't know, especially if the put the units all around the city.

The only thing I see different is the homeless just have a nicer dwelling than a tent. Nothing will change and it will probably draw more people there to get a free dwelling.

This is about a year old, the projects they talk about are already complete.

Advantages are portability and speed of build. They are in my town and employ about 300 people. Basically they threw the 104 units up in under 10 weeks:

https://www.cfjctoday.com/...uction-modular-homes

About 140k$ for 600 square feet (Canadian)

Maurice

Oh I know it’s a problem. It’s a pretty major problem for sure.

But making life harder for homeless people doesn’t seem like the right thing to do. Do I want someone to piss and shit on the sidewalk or camp in our parks? Of course not, but where can they go? It’s not like merchants welcome them. They can’t afford, or don’t have the wherewithal to find accommodation. So the answer is to arrest them when they poop?

Someone else accuse me of having a “typical lefty reaction” to their post. I am not saying we have to cater to people’s every need. But the vast majority of homeless are either mentally ill or addicted to drugs. We don’t want to fund mental health services or drug addiction services properly. So what’s the alternative? Arresting them and imposing fines they can’t pay anyway? Prison? “Camps”?

Tough love does not work. Being practical is not “left wing”. We require massive funding increases in mental health outreach and drug addiction treatment centres and job training programs and low income housing. Way better to spend money on those things than more policing and more prisons.

I was downtown the other day and had to buy a coffee at a Starbucks because I was prairie dogging. Imagine how humiliating it is to be in that situation without the means to even buy a coffee so you can take a dump.

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Proud member of the MSF (Maple Syrup Mafia)

I'm not sure it is a federal issue. In many cases like Seattle, it is a local issue. They have invited this problem and made it worse specifically for themselves. Same with SF. Handling mental health issues is also probably not a federal issue. The Feds may define minimum req. for resources (i.e. you can't throw them in jail or a pit), but they shouldn't be able to mandate how a state handles it. If a state says we want crazy people walking around and another says put them in a facility and another says set up camp city, that is their perogative as long as in all 3 cases they are treated humanely. And it probably is the Fed that gets to define what is humane.

The issue with making it state/provincial/local is warm weather areas bear the brunt of the issue.

Here on the coast we have other areas of the country sending their homeless on one way bus rides out here. So it becomes our problem no matter what. Want to treat/house them? That costs local dollars. Want to arrest them? That costs local dollars. Just cleaning up after them costs local dollars. Doing nothing costs even more, as we have seen, where homeless set up tent city's and slums that become dangerous, fire and health hazards that need to be taken down.

It's shouldn't be just our small community's burden to shoulder the cost of the whole country's homeless.

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Long Chile was a silly place.

But what is practical for a city of 80,000 to do? Offer housing and treatment, when no other communities are doing anything because they don't have this problem (because their homeless come here...)? If you start offering services, or simply not enforcing the law, you invite more of this behavior, at levels we simply cannot afford to keep up with.

I don't like watching people needlessly suffer. But dude, I lived next to downtown's tent City for a couple of years. Fuck those people. That experience more or less killed my compassion for most of the people living there. I endured thousands of dollars worth of theft over that period. My truck was broken in to 7 times in six years. Human shit was on the sidewalks. People were having bad meth trips right by our bedroom window. Tent City residents would physically threaten people walking by. Then it cost the city $250,000 to dig up the whole park because it had turned in to a biohazard area. Fuck those people. They do not want help, and most of them choose to live like animals.

I know there are people out there who genuinely want help and can benefit from social programs, housing, job training, etc. I feel for them. If I had a way to find those people and help them, I would, because it would be worth it to turn them in to productive members of society. I don't think most homeless people fell in to that category.

I have actually tried hiring a few homeless or near homeless people, at above market wages, and offered to teach them some construction skills so they could find a career in the trades. The result was I was stolen from, they wouldn't show up, etc. It was just a total waste of time and energy.

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Long Chile was a silly place.

You are stating 2 different things here.

1. Because of nice weather all the homeless flock there. (Not true, if you have nice weather and politicians that are friendly to the homeless you will have homeless flock there. If you have nice weather but are not friendly to them, they don't flock there.

2. Others are sending them to you. Well duh. If your politicians are friendly to them then why not? Solve the problem of the people who don't want them and aren't afraid to say it openly.

If you don't want to bear the burden then get different politicians that will send them to some other community. I believe there are places now where illegal immigrants can get bus tickets to California, now that they are a sancutary state. 1x offer and 1 way ticket.