I just eat roasted beets.

Organic, or conventionally grown?

(The nitrate content of beets and other vegetables can vary significantly, depending on growing conditions.)

Looks like you've covered all the options I've seen.

Do you plan to share the results?

I normally use Beet Elite, but for everyday smoothies, I use Herbal Island Organic Beet Root Powder.

Does this stuff actually work? And is it disgusting like real beets? :D

Costco sells Fresh on Demand Organic Beet Juice Powder. If it wasn't $70 I'd probably have that for smoothies.

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Madison photographer Timothy Hughes | Instagram

Real beets are only disgusting if you are a kid.

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They constantly try to escape from the darkness outside and within
Dreaming of systems so perfect that no one will need to be good T.S. Eliot

I just juice the beets and drink up. I would be interested in seeing some data for time since juicing, as I have heard there is fast nutritional decay with juicing. I also have no idea if organic offers any nutritional benefit.

Yes and yes :)

Although I grew to like the taste after a little while.

lol

x2

The ergogenic effects are directly related to the levels of nitrates present. Time-since-juicing shouldn't be a significant issue on realistic time-frames (i.e. hours are probably fine, days may start to be noticeable) but cooking for example has a major deleterious effect.

Similarly, organically-grown beets generally have much lower levels of nitrates due to the lack of use nitrate-rich fertilisers, thus for performance-enhancing purposes, non-organic beets are considered better; although as AC mentions above, this can vary drastically depending on farming methods so YMMV.

I grabbed Salus red beet crystals at a grocery store and use them in a pinch one time. I've also seen them on Amazon. I'd be interested to see how the nutritional properties change in crystal form, it is probably my favorite way to consume beets.

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Powertap / Cycleops / Saris

I’m 44 but I still act like a kid, so I guess that counts

Addressing a few things that came up:

1) Yes, when the project is complete the goal is to publish the results somewhere. I expect that every company will hate us except the one that comes out on top. :)

2) Yes, dietary nitrate does "work", at least in most people (about 25% seem to be low responders...something we're looking into).

3) Nitrate is actually a very hardy little molecule. For example, you can boil it in water for 24 h, or use beet juice/powder to make baked goods, and there will be no change.

4) Although there are lots of beet root powders on the market, we've been avoiding them because it is more difficult to define the recommended "dose", and thus compare different products.

Please, keep the suggestions coming! This is hardly earth-shattering research, but at the same time, I think people will find the results really interesting.

Interesting. Will stick to non-organic beets.

You should feed some keto athletes some nitrate bacon and see how they do. :-)

It's fat and nitrates from celery, essentially. They use nitrates from celery juice instead of nitrites in the bacon to make it seem more "consumer friendly".

A silly comment,I know, but I don't even know if the nitrates in bacon are the same thing.

Carry on with the meaningful work! I'll be interested in results.

I am just trying to be funny. It is funny that a lot of foods I hated as a kid I like now. Brussel sprouts and beets for instance. Still don't understand kale though. It is disgusting never understood how it got to be hip.

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They constantly try to escape from the darkness outside and within
Dreaming of systems so perfect that no one will need to be good T.S. Eliot

I was too :). And same for me. I never liked broccoli or a lot of other veggies when I was a kid but I love them now. Except beets. And Kale is awful too. :).
If any of these supplements actually offer some kind of performance advantage without me hurling after I drink it then I’m willing to give them a go. As a tter I’m always after that last .001%

I buy whichever beets are on sale at the grocery store.

It's actually nitrate and nitrite (singular), and yes, the same chemical that is added to cured meats to help preserve the red color and inhibit bacterial growth. Unlike with cured meats, though, nitrate and nitrite in vegetables (by far the largest dietary source) doesn't seem to be associated with increased cancer risk.

I like the taste of beets, but the juice is pretty awful. I only clicked on the thread because of the irony of the word "favourite" when asking about beetroot juice.

I participated in a cycling study around the benefits of nitrates found in beetroot juice. IIRC, we drank the concentrated shots from beet-it. One round we drank daily shots that contained nitrates, and in the other round we drank the shots with the nitrates removed. We weren't told what version we we drinking (or even that one lacked nitrates), but I could easily taste a difference and later came to understand that the nitrates makes everything taste like dirt. ...And I mean literally, like dirt.

Turns out that on average, we had a 1s/km gain/benefit in a time trial like cycling session when drinking the nitrates than without. While the benefit seems small, do keep in mind that the latest and greatest aero fad usually clams a benefit of around 40s over 40k, (or 1s/km).

There are more than a few other studies that indicate similar outcomes

Hello beston and All,

If nitrates and nitrites work (and it appears they do) as a performance enhancer ...... will not WADA and USADA soon prohibit (or create acceptable levels) them and test for those levels?

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/...articles/PMC2909922/

Excerpts:

Phosphodiesterase type 5 (PDE-5) inhibitors, dominated by Viagra®, ranked 16th among the substance groups. The proportion of the inquiries made regarding PDE-5 inhibitors, especially in comparison to antibiotics, painkillers or alcohol, appears to be above the level that would normally be expected from medical need. No significant change in the months leading up to the Beijing Olympics was observed. On the contrary, the Nitric/Nitrate group showed a notable increase between 2006-2007 and 2008, suggesting a potential increase in interest in using nitric oxide among athletes.

"With patents recently filed for the use of agents containing sodium nitrite/nitrate to enhance blood flow for performance enhancement in sport, coupled with anecdotal evidence from internet athlete forums and media, there is a concern that athletes may endanger their health by using vasodilators to enhance athletic performance.

PDE-5 inhibitors or chemicals in the nitrate/nitrate group are currently not prohibited or tested for by the doping control agencies but some are highly dangerous to health and can lead to cardiovascular collapse, coma and death. Its promotion among athletes as a performance enhancing supplement is ethically and medically questionable."

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Cheers, Neal

+1 mph Faster

You should look into the effects of caffein!

Hello Andrew Coggan and All,

These studies agree with you: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/...articles/PMC4690057/

"In summary, this meta-analysis suggested that dietary nitrates intake was associated with a reduced risk of gastric cancer, and high consumption of nitrites and NDMA could increase the risk. [empahsis added]

Considering the limitations and confounding factors, we could not absolutely confirm the reliability of these findings. More well-designed large prospective studies are needed to help us understand these substances in the etiology of gastric cancer."


https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/26633477


"High nitrates intake was associated with a weak but statistically significant reduced risk of gastric cancer. Whereas increased consumption of nitrites and NDMA seemed to be risk factors for cancer. [emphasis added]

Due to the lack of uniformity for exposure assessment across studies, further prospective researches are warranted to verify these findings."

My grandfather and an uncle both died of stomach cancer. They both ate lots of processed meat. So I am going on my 'gut feeling' and stay away from nitrites and be very cautious about nitrates.


I am curious about what the difference is between the nitrates and nitrites in vegetables ....... and nitrates and nitrites found in meats ... and the associated cancer risks.


Are potassium nitrate capsules more similar to vegetable nitrates or to meat nitrates?

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Cheers, Neal

+1 mph Faster

Hello beston and All,

I see what you mean:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/...m_term=.ae82cc5c106b

"But what if Diaw, the Jazz and the countless other athletes who regularly consume caffeine had to give up it up? According to Russian Federal Microbiological Agency chief Vladimir Uiba, that could be coming.

“Caffeine,” he told Russian news agency TASS last week, “is currently on WADA’s waiting list of prohibited substances. If it eventually makes its way into the list of the prohibited substances, we will be forced to recommend everyone against drinking coffee as well as soft drinks containing caffeine.”

“Theoretically, it can happen this year,” Uiba added."

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Cheers, Neal

+1 mph Faster

Regular beet-it for me.

It's easy as it's the only type readily available off the shelf (Tesco) over here (UK) and also using the online shopping option.

I just give up on the daily glass of orange juice and switched to beet.

Tastes ok, but it does vary in its 'earthy' taste which is interesting based on the comment above about that potentially being linked to nitrate content.

WD :-)

So if we need at least 3 beets to benefit, is there any data on beet powder? I don't mind the juice, but powder would be more convenient for me.

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@floathammerholdon | @partners_in_tri

No data on beet powders, at least of which I am aware. However, given the variability in the nitrate content of whole beets and hence in beet juice (up to 2x range in similar products is what we have found so far), you would expect beet powders to also vary widely.

IOW, caveat emptor.

Nobody with any additional suggestions? Maybe BRJ isn't as popular amongst the crowd here as I would have expected? (Or maybe there is still room in the marketplace for additional brands?)

I'm very happy with Beet Elite - the flavor and convenience work well for me pre-race. I'm hoping Biotta ranks poorly because that stuff is vile.

This was actually my go-to undergrad research paper topic, so I'm also surprised it doesn't seem to have more traction.

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http://www.extramilenutrition.com

Very un scientific statement here but is my own observations. Beets ( fresh whole or juiced) and "some" beet products work for me. I find the only ones that work also turn my urine red/pinkish color. The ones I notice no real effect do not change my urine color at all. I have used beet performer and seems to help. The best is fresh juiced beets but its pretty gamey depending on the beets.

I was tested by USADA at masters cycling nats in June. The USADA official held up my red urine specimen and without hesitation said, “Beet juice.” So I think at least in cycling it’s use is fairly wide spread.

My current routine is 2 x Beet It! Sport shots 2 hours before race time. I've looked into other options but you have covered all of the other choices that I am aware of.
Curious, is the nitrite in beets the same as the nitrite in red wine?

Shouldn't someone point out the dangerous side effects of overconsumption?

Lakewood Organic Juice from the health food store or Amazon

<Bump>

Up to 19 different products now, but still seeking one more to make an even 20. Looking in particular for another single serving, non-concentrated beet juice drink to test. Have already tested Beet Performer (two flavors), Beet-Power, and Beet Fizz. Any suggestions?

Check.

Andy, perhaps I've overlooked it but I've looked over Beet Elite's web site and can't find the amount of nitrate in the product. How many mgs are in a serving/shot of these types of products?

I don't believe that they state a specific amount, but we have found those to be generally unreliable anyway, sometimes wildly so.

In any case, email me and I can provide a bit more detail.

I suspect this might fall outside of your inclusion criteria, but I've always wondered about the efficacy of dietary nitrate intake in solid forms of nutrition, such as the Beet-It Sport flapjack bars.

I'm aware of the whole nitrate-oral bacteria interaction, so I'd guess that the ergogenic effects of a given dose of nitrate would be lower in a solid vs liquid form and likely a higher degree of variability too. Is this something that you guys have studied?

We have not, as I am far more interested in mechanisms (if I had had my way, we would have skipped the beet juice and gone straight to nitrate salt in a gelatin capsule).

That said, this recent paper from Jones's lab would seem to directly address your question:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/29223585/

Are the nitrate capsules available to consumers? Without a script?

That's very interesting, many thanks.

Not to my knowledge. The closest you might come would be this product from Shaklee:

https://www.shaklee.com/...t-_p_blood-pressurep

Based on the ingredient list, each tablet could contain as much as ~6 mmol of nitrate. However, I measured some one time, and did not find nearly that much (but am also not sure that I trust the data, as I had a hard time getting the tablet to fully dissolve).

A company called Theravasc has been developing time-released sodium nitrIte capsules, but I don't know whether they are on the market yet.

Unbeetable by Beverage Options LLC.

I know the researcher in the physics department at Wake Forest who has been researching beet root juice for a while know. I use to give them blood for the research and they would give me some free beet juice when I was done. I never used it for sport but would chug it and go do work coding and doing simulations.

Thanks, but that's what I meant by 'Beet Fizz' (sold out of Florida now).

https://unbeetable.com

Nu-Therapy Power Beets?

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"I'm thinking of a number between 1 and 10, and I don't know why!"

Thanks for the suggestion.

We have generally been steering away from beet powders sold in bulk, though, as there are a zillion of them on the market and the dose is a bit hard to define.

(I did make an exception recently for PureClean Performance, since it is marketed directly at athletes and they recommend a specific amount and time to ingest it.)

Any other single serving drinks out there? I tried to lay my hands on some Beetology, but the local health food store that is listed as a retailer did not have any in stock.

Last call! Need some time to order and test any additional product(s) before presenting the data at ACSM in late May/early June.

What's in *your* beet juice?



Check out poster #2398 at ACSM next week for full results.

Interesting. Is there any concensus on what the appropriate serving/dose should be?

I'm curious about this as well. I currently take 2 Beet-It Sport shots between 1.5 to 2 hours before a race.

I also don't supplement Beet juice during a race, but would this be beneficial for longer races like an Olympic distance or 70.3?

IIRC, general consensus is roughly 500ml/day leading up to and including race day for about 7 days. This is to maximize benefits and minimize intestinal distress.

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@floathammerholdon | @partners_in_tri

Andrew-

This is the one I use. It is not marketed toward athletes really. I shop here as it is an Arizona based company and they have great customer service, and BOGO's often.

https://www.hihealth.com/tibet-mountain-botanicals-beet-root-powder-6-35-oz.html


Jason

How about BulkSupplements Beet Root powder?

https://www.amazon.com/...nts+beet+root+powder

I wouldn't really say that there is a concensus, but data from several studies points to 6-12 mmol being the optimal dose, at least in healthy young individuals (we are presently conducting dose-response studies in heart failure patients and in healthy elderly individuals, as they may require more).

As for chronic vs. acute dosing, there really isn't much evidence in humans for anything beyond an acute effect (as I had to educate a reviewer about recently).

Thanks, but we're done.

Any thoughts on this new highly marketed product AltRed?

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n=1, but it raised my FTP 80%...

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@floathammerholdon | @partners_in_tri

No real opinion on the product, but let's just say that I have not been impressed by the marketing.

How about Beet Mon Viandes?

Can't wait for your output/results. I've been mixing the local brand beet root powder I get from Sprouts with milk most mornings, not for the athletic advantage, more for healthy drink for breakfast.

https://forum.slowtwitch.com/...ost=6638614#p6638614

How about Beet Meat Manifesto. That's my go-to.

Beet root powder and milk?

🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮

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Aaron Bales
Lansing Triathlon Team

Every morning I finish my morning session with almond milk, beet root powder, and vanilla protein power. It's actually pretty tasty.

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@floathammerholdon | @partners_in_tri

But your missing out, I had significant gains with it. My right arm has never been bigger. Of course, I am now blind, but hey....

This stuff is honestly the worst beet product that I've ever tried. Even at its price point, I could never go back to it.

Any chance you can repost these charts?

Where were the results published?