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USA Out of World Cup
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Ouch

Freedom just around the corner for you. But with the truth so far off, what good will it do?
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Re: USA Out of World Cup [jepvb] [ In reply to ]
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Wow.
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Re: USA Out of World Cup [jepvb] [ In reply to ]
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Shambolic. Utterly pathetic. Unfathomable. We just lost to Trinidand & Tobago.

Trinidad ... and ... Tobago.

Ridiculous.

They were 8-1 underdogs at home. They were last of the group.

Absolutely embarrassing. They are shameful. Pitiful. Beyond words.

Gnothi Seauton.
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Re: USA Out of World Cup [jepvb] [ In reply to ]
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i support a public execution
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Re: USA Out of World Cup [windywave] [ In reply to ]
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windywave wrote:
i support a public execution

That’s a bit harsh. I think 10 years of hard labor in a gulag will suffice.
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Re: USA Out of World Cup [triguy101] [ In reply to ]
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triguy101 wrote:
windywave wrote:
i support a public execution

That’s a bit harsh. I think 10 years of hard labor in a gulag will suffice.

Why are you such a softie?
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Re: USA Out of World Cup [jepvb] [ In reply to ]
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Arena should step down.

Gut the whole team. Pulisic is the only guaranteed left over.

Howard out. Guzan out. Besler, Gonzalez, Altidore, Wood, Beasley, Wondolowski, Cameron, Zusi, Bedoya. Out.

All of them. Is there anyone I missed?

This is a 12 year setback. At least.

Gnothi Seauton.
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Re: USA Out of World Cup [Ready4Launch] [ In reply to ]
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Agree, no excuse to lose to Trinidad & Tobago. People can say that they got robbed on the winning goal call but they should never have been in that position in the first place. Worst case scenario came true with both Panama and Honduras winning.

On the flip side Iceland is in, proving their run in the 2016 Euro was no fluke. Would love to watch a WC game in Reykjavik.



"You can never win or lose if you don't run the race." - Richard Butler

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Re: USA Out of World Cup [jepvb] [ In reply to ]
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Clear out the rot from the top down too.

Sunil Gulati. GTFOH.

Gnothi Seauton.
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Re: USA Out of World Cup [Ready4Launch] [ In reply to ]
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I'm fucking pisse

I shall root for the Republic instead

Someone needs to be killed
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Re: USA Out of World Cup [jepvb] [ In reply to ]
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I have no words. Can we somehow blame this on Trump or Obama?

I guess what frightens me is during the last 20 (and most of the game) they played with zero drive. It looked like complete apathy. I never really bought into the line that this generation is the first generation that has been pampered going through the Academy systems that popped up to create better players. And, as a result, they don't play with old-school USA grit.

So now we still have inferior players. But, these inferior players don't know how to win ugly.

On the positive for me, Dempsey will be put to pasture. If I was him I'd do the classy thing and retire without breaking Lando's record in some garbage friendly against Vatican City where they win 8-0 (er...I guess it might only be 1-0 for this team against Vatican City).
Last edited by: DJRed: Oct 10, 17 19:26
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Re: USA Out of World Cup [Brian in MA] [ In reply to ]
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Fuck it. Put Jill Ellis in charge of the men's team, like, right fucking now.

Scrimmage the fucking women's national team until these shitbags learn how to win. What a fucking embarrassment. It's unreal.

At least a 12 year fucking setback. Once you clear out the team, you bring in all new faces, you may qualify for the 2022 WC. Getting out of the group may not happen. Just getting there will be an achievement. Then cycle through to 2026. Hopefully, the team is more mature. Maybe more talent. We'd be a real darkhorse to get to the QFs. Cycle through that to 2030. Maybe, maybe then we're back to a point where we have an experienced and talented group that we could say, "OK - we really should be focusing on getting to at least the semis." By 2030, our one bonafide star, Pulisic, will be near 30. Past his prime.

Fucking shit show.

Gnothi Seauton.
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Re: USA Out of World Cup [jepvb] [ In reply to ]
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And while we're at it...

Continue the fucking scorched earth policy with the fucking U.S. pundits.

Taylor Twellman ... S H U T T H E F U C K UP. YOU'RE A DOUCHE!!! You're making Alexi Lalas look good.

Lalas ... just turn the cameras off now.

Bob Ley ... bye.

Gnothi Seauton.
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Re: USA Out of World Cup [windywave] [ In reply to ]
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Yeah, way to go Bruce Arena ... you fucking genius ... yeah, I can imagine France, Spain, Germany ... fuck it, at this rate, even Iceland ... yeah, I can imagine any of those teams traveling to Panama, Costa Rica, and an empty stadium on a tiny island and have a difficult time qualifying for the WC. jackass.

Gnothi Seauton.
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Re: USA Out of World Cup [jepvb] [ In reply to ]
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We should be paying the USWNT more than the men. If ever there has been a case of being compensated based on merit, then what the fuck are we doing??? If they're not getting paid equally right now, then fucking get rid of the entire hierarchy of USSF. Fucking pay them more. A LOT MORE. USMNT needs to be shamed. Publicly. GET. THE. FUCKING. MEMO.

Gnothi Seauton.
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Re: USA Out of World Cup [Ready4Launch] [ In reply to ]
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Fuck it. I'm glad we're not going. I'm glad we didn't even qualify for the playoff spot. They may have gone on to be an even bigger embarrassment.

We want to to talk about NFL players kneeling and insulting the flag. Fuck that. This is an absolute disgrace to the U.S., our flag, first responders, the troops, the Constitution, the fucking Bill of Rights, our freedoms, our so-called greatness.

Gnothi Seauton.
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Re: USA Out of World Cup [Brian in MA] [ In reply to ]
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Brian in MA wrote:
Agree, no excuse to lose to Trinidad & Tobago. People can say that they got robbed on the winning goal call but they should never have been in that position in the first place. Worst case scenario came true with both Panama and Honduras winning.

On the flip side Iceland is in, proving their run in the 2016 Euro was no fluke. Would love to watch a WC game in Reykjavik.

They're in because their players play in Europe. MLS is not a high quality league.
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Re: USA Out of World Cup [Ready4Launch] [ In reply to ]
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Ready4Launch wrote:
And while we're at it...

Continue the fucking scorched earth policy with the fucking U.S. pundits.

Taylor Twellman ... S H U T T H E F U C K UP. YOU'RE A DOUCHE!!! You're making Alexi Lalas look good.

Lalas ... just turn the cameras off now.

Bob Ley ... bye.

So true. Lalas is a dick.
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Re: USA Out of World Cup [Ready4Launch] [ In reply to ]
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Switch it around right fucking now. It should never have even been unequal to begin with. Fuck equal. Pay the women more. Pay them a lot more. I don't give a fuck if Alex Morgan goes to every Disney park on earth, gets drunk, and pukes on Mickey Mouse. If she puts the ball in the back of the fucking net and wins the WC, then pay her.



Gnothi Seauton.
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Re: USA Out of World Cup [Ready4Launch] [ In reply to ]
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Meanwhile, the greatest player to ever play the game scores a hatrick and carries Argentina to Russia next year.
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Re: USA Out of World Cup [Ready4Launch] [ In reply to ]
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Reading some FB posts from T&T fans talking smack about being taken for granted and the USA staying home and watching the Cup with them.

Somebody responded: "But after all that, you still live in T&T and you'll probably be eaten by a tiger tomorrow."

I love the internet.
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Re: USA Out of World Cup [Ready4Launch] [ In reply to ]
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Ready4Launch wrote:
Switch it around right fucking now. It should never have even been unequal to begin with. Fuck equal. Pay the women more. Pay them a lot more. I don't give a fuck if Alex Morgan goes to every Disney park on earth, gets drunk, and pukes on Mickey Mouse. If she puts the ball in the back of the fucking net and wins the WC, then pay her.


The problem is USA women struggle to sellout small venues and the men draw larger crowds (plus the inevitable fans of the country we are playing). TV viewership and revenue are even worse.

Less money in means less money out.
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Re: USA Out of World Cup [jepvb] [ In reply to ]
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On the bright side it should make it easier for Australia's Socceroos to qualify. :)
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Re: USA Out of World Cup [jepvb] [ In reply to ]
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Look at the bright side. At least we won't have to play the Syrians in a playoff.

"Human existence is based upon two pillars: Compassion and knowledge. Compassion without knowledge is ineffective; Knowledge without compassion is inhuman." Victor Weisskopf.
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Re: USA Out of World Cup [Ready4Launch] [ In reply to ]
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Ready4Launch wrote:
Fuck it. I'm glad we're not going. I'm glad we didn't even qualify for the playoff spot. They may have gone on to be an even bigger embarrassment.

We want to to talk about NFL players kneeling and insulting the flag. Fuck that. This is an absolute disgrace to the U.S., our flag, first responders, the troops, the Constitution, the fucking Bill of Rights, our freedoms, our so-called greatness.

Just think if you were Dutch, you'd have a real reason to complain.
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Re: USA Out of World Cup [Ready4Launch] [ In reply to ]
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Ready4Launch wrote:
Fuck it. Put Jill Ellis in charge of the men's team, like, right fucking now.

Scrimmage the fucking women's national team until these shitbags learn how to win. What a fucking embarrassment. It's unreal.

At least a 12 year fucking setback. Once you clear out the team, you bring in all new faces, you may qualify for the 2022 WC. Getting out of the group may not happen. Just getting there will be an achievement. Then cycle through to 2026. Hopefully, the team is more mature. Maybe more talent. We'd be a real darkhorse to get to the QFs. Cycle through that to 2030. Maybe, maybe then we're back to a point where we have an experienced and talented group that we could say, "OK - we really should be focusing on getting to at least the semis." By 2030, our one bonafide star, Pulisic, will be near 30. Past his prime.

Fucking shit show.

Well, there is no talent development and no competitive league... so what can one expect? You can switch coaches like blankets (smells good bu only cleans) and nothing will change.

Klinsmann at least got the team into the Cup, even so he didn't have the experience to keep them in there.
Not talking about his experience as a coach, but his lack of managerial qualities--meaning getting enough pull and backing to built a strong team out from development.

You can't turn a frog into a prince with a single 'kiss' (that works only in ferry tales). Look at some of the European teams who have rested on their laurels and have neglected development (Netherlands).
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Re: USA Out of World Cup [Uncle Arqyle] [ In reply to ]
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Yeah - that's a shambles too. They are embarrassed as well. Zlatan Ibrahimovich isn't even in the team, and Victor Lindelof is the only other name that I can think of when it comes to the Swedes. The Dutch are known to be an in-fighting bunch, and they're possibly spittin and at each other's throats on the way out. Meanwhile, we're glib-glub glum gloomy. We'll say the right things -- "We're sorry to the fans" "We failed tonight" We have to do better blah blah blah" -- instead of kicking each others ass and going on record for what's wrong. At a minimum, Arena did say that the center backs weren't confident with the ball and the forwards didn't do well to hold onto it.

#GULATIOUT #ARENAOUT #ELLISUSMNT #GIVEMEAWINNER #JILLELLISUSMNT

Gnothi Seauton.
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Re: USA Out of World Cup [windschatten] [ In reply to ]
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windschatten wrote:
Ready4Launch wrote:
Fuck it. Put Jill Ellis in charge of the men's team, like, right fucking now.

Scrimmage the fucking women's national team until these shitbags learn how to win. What a fucking embarrassment. It's unreal.

At least a 12 year fucking setback. Once you clear out the team, you bring in all new faces, you may qualify for the 2022 WC. Getting out of the group may not happen. Just getting there will be an achievement. Then cycle through to 2026. Hopefully, the team is more mature. Maybe more talent. We'd be a real darkhorse to get to the QFs. Cycle through that to 2030. Maybe, maybe then we're back to a point where we have an experienced and talented group that we could say, "OK - we really should be focusing on getting to at least the semis." By 2030, our one bonafide star, Pulisic, will be near 30. Past his prime.

Fucking shit show.


Well, there is no talent development and no competitive league... so what can one expect? You can switch coaches like blankets (smells good bu only cleans) and nothing will change.

Klinsmann at least got the team into the Cup, even so he didn't have the experience to keep them in there.
Not talking about his experience as a coach, but his lack of managerial qualities--meaning getting enough pull and backing to built a strong team out from development.

You can't turn a frog into a prince with a single 'kiss' (that works only in ferry tales). Look at some of the European teams who have rested on their laurels and have neglected development (Netherlands).

No shit about the talent! I don't give a fuck. At least get someone in there that knows winning. Has had success. Fuck Klinnsman. Didn't win shit. I don't care about 3rd place at the WC.

Burn it all to the fucking ground. Put Jill Ellis in place. I don't care if she's a woman. Fuck that, pay her. Put her in charge of the men. Fuck that, pay her.

Gnothi Seauton.
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Re: USA Out of World Cup [windywave] [ In reply to ]
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windywave wrote:
I shall root for the Republic instead

Democratic Republic of North Korea? I always figured that's where your true alliances lay.

Remember - It's important to be comfortable in your own skin... because it turns out society frowns on wearing other people's
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Re: USA Out of World Cup [Ready4Launch] [ In reply to ]
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I would be interested to see some real data. What were the specific revenues the women brought in to make the profit and what were all the specific expenses (and lack of revenue) that lead to the huge loss for men? I'd be sure the worst team in the NBA is way more profitable than the WNBA champion, so I have a hard time believing these numbers. Yes, the women do very well playing against pretty low level competition and yes, the men do poorly and in the qualifying poorly against pretty mediocre competition.
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Re: USA Out of World Cup [Ready4Launch] [ In reply to ]
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Ready4Launch wrote:
windschatten wrote:
Ready4Launch wrote:
Fuck it. Put Jill Ellis in charge of the men's team, like, right fucking now.

Scrimmage the fucking women's national team until these shitbags learn how to win. What a fucking embarrassment. It's unreal.

At least a 12 year fucking setback. Once you clear out the team, you bring in all new faces, you may qualify for the 2022 WC. Getting out of the group may not happen. Just getting there will be an achievement. Then cycle through to 2026. Hopefully, the team is more mature. Maybe more talent. We'd be a real darkhorse to get to the QFs. Cycle through that to 2030. Maybe, maybe then we're back to a point where we have an experienced and talented group that we could say, "OK - we really should be focusing on getting to at least the semis." By 2030, our one bonafide star, Pulisic, will be near 30. Past his prime.

Fucking shit show.


Well, there is no talent development and no competitive league... so what can one expect? You can switch coaches like blankets (smells good bu only cleans) and nothing will change.

Klinsmann at least got the team into the Cup, even so he didn't have the experience to keep them in there.
Not talking about his experience as a coach, but his lack of managerial qualities--meaning getting enough pull and backing to built a strong team out from development.

You can't turn a frog into a prince with a single 'kiss' (that works only in ferry tales). Look at some of the European teams who have rested on their laurels and have neglected development (Netherlands).


No shit about the talent! I don't give a fuck. At least get someone in there that knows winning. Has had success. Fuck Klinnsman. Didn't win shit. I don't care about 3rd place at the WC.

Burn it all to the fucking ground. Put Jill Ellis in place. I don't care if she's a woman. Fuck that, pay her. Put her in charge of the men. Fuck that, pay her.



3rd at WC is something you will fondly remember for a LONG time.
IF
Soccer doesn't get extinct in the US all together (following college soccer makes me a firm believer in that possibility).

The best woman CEO can't do anything without talented staff (in that case Male), so she would be doomed from the get go.

Unless she nominates the women's team (which is great) to represent the US for the next male cup.

What are you having?
Last edited by: windschatten: Oct 10, 17 21:05
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Re: USA Out of World Cup [jepvb] [ In reply to ]
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Of all the possible combinations of match outcomes today, this was the only one that would (realistically) see them knocked clean out of qualifying... AND IT HAPPENED!

I say, good riddance to a squad that demonstrated no heart, no quality, and certainly no desire to win.

"The right to party is a battle we have fought, but we'll surrender and go Amish... NOT!" -Wayne Campbell
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Re: USA Out of World Cup [burnman] [ In reply to ]
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burnman wrote:
Of all the possible combinations of match outcomes today, this was the only one that would (realistically) see them knocked clean out of qualifying... AND IT HAPPENED!

I say, good riddance to a squad that demonstrated no heart, no quality, and certainly no desire to win.

Wow, brutal to beat on a poorly coached and poorly developed team.

Just blame the players....very classy!

These kids did all they could, which wasn't enough.
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Re: USA Out of World Cup [windschatten] [ In reply to ]
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I'm not sure you're getting my point. We're shit. We know we're shit. We're going to continue to be shit into the 2022 WC cycle. Shit is what we're having, and I don't care. Knock it all to the ground. Bring in Jill Ellis. She at least knows a national team program. She's won. Maybe she can breed a hard-working, winning mentality with fresh faces. Besides that, why the fuck not her? It's not like we've got a plethora of coaching names that immediately float to the top. Fuck it all. Why not. 12yr setback. Burn it to the ground. Gulati out. Arena out. Gut the team. 2030. We peaked in 2002 and '94 before that. It's been a bear market since. Bottom.

Gnothi Seauton.
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Re: USA Out of World Cup [Ready4Launch] [ In reply to ]
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Add Herculez Gomez to the list of pundits to deep six. Terrible. GTFO.

Gnothi Seauton.
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Re: USA Out of World Cup [Ready4Launch] [ In reply to ]
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Ready4Launch wrote:
I'm not sure you're getting my point. We're shit. We know we're shit. We're going to continue to be shit into the 2022 WC cycle. Shit is what we're having, and I don't care. Knock it all to the ground. Bring in Jill Ellis. She at least knows a national team program. She's won. Maybe she can breed a hard-working, winning mentality with fresh faces. Besides that, why the fuck not her? It's not like we've got a plethora of coaching names that immediately float to the top. Fuck it all. Why not. 12yr setback. Burn it to the ground. Gulati out. Arena out. Gut the team. 2030. We peaked in 2002 and '94 before that. It's been a bear market since. Bottom.


"Fresh faces" without the development and education won't do....unfortunately.

Or are you advocating sending all your promising kids overseas to let others develop the players the US needs?

It stinks form the bottom...U21 team: 1:1 against Saudis, 1:2 against Venezuela, WTF?
Last edited by: windschatten: Oct 10, 17 21:55
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Re: USA Out of World Cup [Ready4Launch] [ In reply to ]
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Ready4Launch wrote:
Add Herculez Gomez to the list of pundits to deep six. Terrible. GTFO.

At least he had this awesome response to a question after the game. (paraphrased)

Announcer to Gomez: What are the emotions the players are feeling? Anger? Sadness? Etc.

Gomez: I don't know. A team I was on never failed to qualify for the World Cup.
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Re: USA Out of World Cup [Ready4Launch] [ In reply to ]
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I know you must be a little tongue-in-cheek, but it's worth nothing the WNT is successful for exactly the reason the MNT is not - - our women's leagues/college programs are developed more than the rest of the world. The men suffer from the opposite.

On the women's side the world is closing the gap, while our men are falling behind.
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Re: USA Out of World Cup [Brian in MA] [ In reply to ]
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Brian in MA wrote:
On the flip side Iceland is in, proving their run in the 2016 Euro was no fluke. Would love to watch a WC game in Reykjavik.

So a country with just over 300k people qualifies out of the hardest confederation, or second hardest at worst, while a country with 300+ million can't qualify out of one of one of the easier confederations.
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Re: USA Out of World Cup [Ready4Launch] [ In reply to ]
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Ready4Launch wrote:
We should be paying the USWNT more than the men. If ever there has been a case of being compensated based on merit, then what the fuck are we doing??? If they're not getting paid equally right now, then fucking get rid of the entire hierarchy of USSF. Fucking pay them more. A LOT MORE. USMNT needs to be shamed. Publicly. GET. THE. FUCKING. MEMO.

My understanding is the men don't get paid, they just get bonuses. The women do get paid a salary and bonuses, that was lost in whole debate about equal "pay", which was about the bonuses.
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Re: USA Out of World Cup [windschatten] [ In reply to ]
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windschatten wrote:
Well, there is no talent development and no competitive league... so what can one expect? You can switch coaches like blankets (smells good bu only cleans) and nothing will change.

That's a good argument for why the U.S. doesn't produce world class players, but not a good argument for why we can't qualify for the world cup. Mexico is the only country that might do better than us in our confederation. Most countries we qualify against aren't any better at producing good players, because they have small populations and are poor.
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Re: USA Out of World Cup [jepvb] [ In reply to ]
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Don't worry, it's just part of our grand scheme to delegitimize Russia by not taking part in their World Cup, without having to go through the hassle of a boycott.

Slowguy

(insert pithy phrase here...)
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Re: USA Out of World Cup [windschatten] [ In reply to ]
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windschatten wrote:
burnman wrote:
Of all the possible combinations of match outcomes today, this was the only one that would (realistically) see them knocked clean out of qualifying... AND IT HAPPENED!

I say, good riddance to a squad that demonstrated no heart, no quality, and certainly no desire to win.


Wow, brutal to beat on a poorly coached and poorly developed team.

Just blame the players....very classy!

These kids did all they could, which wasn't enough.

Um, no. Most of these guys have been around forever. Pulisic is the only real youngster playing regularly.
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Re: USA Out of World Cup [Ready4Launch] [ In reply to ]
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Ready4Launch wrote:
Fuck it. I'm glad we're not going. I'm glad we didn't even qualify for the playoff spot. They may have gone on to be an even bigger embarrassment.

We want to to talk about NFL players kneeling and insulting the flag. Fuck that. This is an absolute disgrace to the U.S., our flag, first responders, the troops, the Constitution, the fucking Bill of Rights, our freedoms, our so-called greatness.

Wow, you really lost it.

Who knew that people in the US actually care about soccer?

How does Danny Hart sit down with balls that big?
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Re: USA Out of World Cup [MikeH in MD] [ In reply to ]
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Random Thoughts:
US Soccer from top to bottom are to blame they have no serious player development program. MLS sucks and is ruining the development of our players. It is a league for old big name European Players to make some big money and for hacks who can't make it in Europe or South America.

It is time to use the same model that works around the world, no playoffs and relegation.

Our three best players are Pulisic, Wood and Yedlin, all three play in Europe. US Cycling took off when Greg LeMond, Andy Hampsten and others went to Europe, got their asses kicked, learned from it and improved. If you want to get better you have to play against better players.

Every player needs to turn in their Team USA Gear and Earn their spot on the team.

All I Wanted Was A Pepsi, Just One Pepsi

Team Zoot, Team Zoot Mid-Atlantic

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Re: USA Out of World Cup [Billabong] [ In reply to ]
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Billabong wrote:
Random Thoughts:
US Soccer from top to bottom are to blame they have no serious player development program. MLS sucks and is ruining the development of our players. It is a league for old big name European Players to make some big money and for hacks who can't make it in Europe or South America.

It is time to use the same model that works around the world, no playoffs and relegation.

Our three best players are Pulisic, Wood and Yedlin, all three play in Europe. US Cycling took off when Greg LeMond, Andy Hampsten and others went to Europe, got their asses kicked, learned from it and improved. If you want to get better you have to play against better players.

Every player needs to turn in their Team USA Gear and Earn their spot on the team.

As long as MLS is a franchise like other major U.S. sports it's going to be hard. Top players are developed in academies by private clubs looking to profit off of them. Hard to emulate that here.
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Re: USA Out of World Cup [BLeP] [ In reply to ]
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BLeP wrote:
Wow, you really lost it.

Who knew that people in the US actually care about soccer?
My thought exactly! I've almost never seen a soccer thread in here and the one's I've seen have just a few responses. Surprising to see all this anger from so many people.

My take: this is all on the development program and a lack of money. Part of it is how massive the US, the talent is spread throughout the country and I think it's difficult to coordinate and bring together for elite training camps when these kids are 12, 15 years old when they NEED to be playing with the best.

I doubt it changes, people like having their kids play in the local soccer league but even if a good structure were in place--which it isn't--parents aren't gonna commit to these serious development programs for a sport that isn't popular in this country. The athletically gifted kids will continue filtering to football, basketball, baseball and hockey.
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Re: USA Out of World Cup [jepvb] [ In reply to ]
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jepvb wrote:
Ouch

This is soccer, right?

Isn't that on ESPN 8 The Ocho? ;-)


"Politics is just show business for ugly people."
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Re: USA Out of World Cup [Ready4Launch] [ In reply to ]
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Commie Kickball! and this is the 'sport' that's supposed to replace Football!? hahahaha

Murica!

Steve
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Re: USA Out of World Cup [BLeP] [ In reply to ]
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BLeP wrote:
Ready4Launch wrote:
Fuck it. I'm glad we're not going. I'm glad we didn't even qualify for the playoff spot. They may have gone on to be an even bigger embarrassment.

We want to to talk about NFL players kneeling and insulting the flag. Fuck that. This is an absolute disgrace to the U.S., our flag, first responders, the troops, the Constitution, the fucking Bill of Rights, our freedoms, our so-called greatness.


Wow, you really lost it.

Who knew that people in the US actually care about soccer?

Exactly. I'm reading through the outrage on this thread thinking "Haven't the US always sucked at soccer?"

I mean, they usually qualify but it would be a huge victory just to advance past the quarter finals.

Long Chile was a silly place.
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Re: USA Out of World Cup [Ready4Launch] [ In reply to ]
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Ready4Launch wrote:
Shambolic. Utterly pathetic. Unfathomable. We just lost to Trinidand & Tobago.

Trinidad ... and ... Tobago.

Ridiculous.

They were 8-1 underdogs at home. They were last of the group.

Absolutely embarrassing. They are shameful. Pitiful. Beyond words.

Hey take it easy. The U.S. was up against a really tough opponent last night who had a lot to play for.

Freedom just around the corner for you. But with the truth so far off, what good will it do?
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Re: USA Out of World Cup [BCtriguy1] [ In reply to ]
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BCtriguy1 wrote:
BLeP wrote:
Ready4Launch wrote:
Fuck it. I'm glad we're not going. I'm glad we didn't even qualify for the playoff spot. They may have gone on to be an even bigger embarrassment.

We want to to talk about NFL players kneeling and insulting the flag. Fuck that. This is an absolute disgrace to the U.S., our flag, first responders, the troops, the Constitution, the fucking Bill of Rights, our freedoms, our so-called greatness.


Wow, you really lost it.

Who knew that people in the US actually care about soccer?


Exactly. I'm reading through the outrage on this thread thinking "Haven't the US always sucked at soccer?"

I mean, they usually qualify but it would be a huge victory just to advance past the quarter finals.

Looks like all the energy we've spent producing Stanley Cup winners may have hindered our development as a soccer nation, eh?
Quote Reply
Re: USA Out of World Cup [Brownie28] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Brownie28 wrote:
BLeP wrote:

Wow, you really lost it.

Who knew that people in the US actually care about soccer?

My thought exactly! I've almost never seen a soccer thread in here and the one's I've seen have just a few responses. Surprising to see all this anger from so many people.

My take: this is all on the development program and a lack of money. Part of it is how massive the US, the talent is spread throughout the country and I think it's difficult to coordinate and bring together for elite training camps when these kids are 12, 15 years old when they NEED to be playing with the best.

I doubt it changes, people like having their kids play in the local soccer league but even if a good structure were in place--which it isn't--parents aren't gonna commit to these serious development programs for a sport that isn't popular in this country. The athletically gifted kids will continue filtering to football, basketball, baseball and hockey.

This is 100% false. Player identification, centralized training programs, and the number of parents willing to drive hours for a better team and better coach have never been more prevalent in US Soccer.

Your take is from 1985.
Quote Reply
Re: USA Out of World Cup [Brownie28] [ In reply to ]
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Brownie28 wrote:
BLeP wrote:

The athletically gifted kids will continue filtering to football, basketball, baseball and hockey.

Most of whom will never be big enough to play those sports, esp. football and basketball. And by the time you know that it's too late to develop the skills for soccer.
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Re: USA Out of World Cup [DJRed] [ In reply to ]
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Iceland with a population of around 330,000 qualified. Apparently on their qualifying match 15% of the entire population of Iceland travelled to watch the game.

I went down the list of U.S. cities until I arrived at a city about the same size. It's around Santa Ana, CA or Corpus Christi, TX.
Quote Reply
Re: USA Out of World Cup [Guffaw] [ In reply to ]
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Guffaw wrote:
windywave wrote:
I shall root for the Republic instead

Democratic Republic of North Korea? I always figured that's where your true alliances lay.

Ireland dimwit
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Re: USA Out of World Cup [Steve Hawley] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Steve Hawley wrote:
Commie Kickball! and this is the 'sport' that's supposed to replace Football!? hahahaha

Murica!


The Taliban could probably put a side together that could kick our guys right in what my wife calls "the jib-lees." ;-)

We're not very good at this sport and we probably never will be. There's no shame in that.

I was based out of Italy a couple of years after that nation's team had won the 1982 World Cup. That sport is culturally ingrained in the Italian psyche, just as it is throughout Europe and Latin America and Africa, for some reason (probably due to colonial influences). Little kids barely able to totter are given soccer balls and taught how to bounce them off their knees and they play pickup soccer games in the street like we used to play sandlot baseball or stickball.

"Politics is just show business for ugly people."
Last edited by: big kahuna: Oct 11, 17 6:42
Quote Reply
Re: USA Out of World Cup [DJRed] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
DJRed wrote:
Brownie28 wrote:
BLeP wrote:

Wow, you really lost it.

Who knew that people in the US actually care about soccer?

My thought exactly! I've almost never seen a soccer thread in here and the one's I've seen have just a few responses. Surprising to see all this anger from so many people.

My take: this is all on the development program and a lack of money. Part of it is how massive the US, the talent is spread throughout the country and I think it's difficult to coordinate and bring together for elite training camps when these kids are 12, 15 years old when they NEED to be playing with the best.

I doubt it changes, people like having their kids play in the local soccer league but even if a good structure were in place--which it isn't--parents aren't gonna commit to these serious development programs for a sport that isn't popular in this country. The athletically gifted kids will continue filtering to football, basketball, baseball and hockey.


This is 100% false. Player identification, centralized training programs, and the number of parents willing to drive hours for a better team and better coach have never been more prevalent in US Soccer.

Your take is from 1985.

Well it didn't take long for the "soccer sucks, why are we talking about it crowd" to show up. Go figure someone who doesn't follow it commenting on it and being wrong about their "analysis".

The Pay to Play is also ruining development. When it costs $2-$6k per year for a player to play on a good squad, you are automatically eliminating a pool of talent. That kind of crap doesn't happen anywhere else but here. And it is ALL about the $.

And while MLS has been poor for home grown development, it has allowed the other teams in CONCACAF to benefit from a higher level of play.

Love him or hate him, Twellman made a great point on his rant last night/this morning. When Germany failed to qualify for the Euro's, they all got together (Bundesliga 1 and 2 and the German Soccer Federation) and put together a 10 year plan. What happened in 10 years? They won the WC. If we keep doing what we have always done we will continue to have this conversation for decades to come.

Last night and throughout the past 4-8 years our defense has really suffered, but more importantly our teams haven't shown heart. I'm gutted about next year but I hope this serves as a wake up call for improvement in the future.
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Re: USA Out of World Cup [crowny2] [ In reply to ]
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crowny2 wrote:
The Pay to Play is also ruining development. When it costs $2-$6k per year for a player to play on a good squad, you are automatically eliminating a pool of talent. That kind of crap doesn't happen anywhere else but here. And it is ALL about the $.

A big issue is that clubs need to win because that's the metric that attracts parents to fork over money. At a proper academy the metric that matters is turning out professional players, not winning youth games.
Quote Reply
Re: USA Out of World Cup [ThisIsIt] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
ThisIsIt wrote:
crowny2 wrote:

The Pay to Play is also ruining development. When it costs $2-$6k per year for a player to play on a good squad, you are automatically eliminating a pool of talent. That kind of crap doesn't happen anywhere else but here. And it is ALL about the $.


A big issue is that clubs need to win because that's the metric that attracts parents to fork over money. At a proper academy the metric that matters is turning out professional players, not winning youth games.


Agreed. Leander Schaerlaeckens (I think) wrote this fantastic 5 part article for ESPNFC (Back when it was Soccernet) that I can't find anymore. Talked about the problem with soccer in the US and the foundation was in their development. The squads are set up to win, not to develop (including how the teams play too many games and in practice it was too regimented and doesn't allow for natural development of skills) was the long and short of it. Wish it was still around because it couldn't be more timely than today.

ETA: corrected Leander's last name. I always misspell it.
Last edited by: crowny2: Oct 11, 17 6:56
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Re: USA Out of World Cup [big kahuna] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
was out one night in Iraq doing some stuff and we began to hear gunfire all around us? It quickly built into a steady roar of immense proportions. Call came over radio--Iraq had beaten somebody like Egypt or Syria in soccer. Every MF'r in the country with a AK and/or PKM was out pumping lead into the sky. We had to climb into our armored vehicles to seek cover. That's national level commitment baby!

/r

Steve
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Re: USA Out of World Cup [jepvb] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
jepvb wrote:
Ready4Launch wrote:
Shambolic. Utterly pathetic. Unfathomable. We just lost to Trinidand & Tobago.

Trinidad ... and ... Tobago.

Ridiculous.

They were 8-1 underdogs at home. They were last of the group.

Absolutely embarrassing. They are shameful. Pitiful. Beyond words.


Hey take it easy. The U.S. was up against a really tough opponent last night who had a lot to play for.

It wasn't all a dream. The scores are all still the same.

It would be a different ball of wax if we had played well throughout qualifying and just came up against good performances. We didn't. They were simply awful and seemingly apathetic most times and inconsistent with even mediocrity.

Gnothi Seauton.
Quote Reply
Re: USA Out of World Cup [BCtriguy1] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
BCtriguy1 wrote:
BLeP wrote:
Ready4Launch wrote:
Fuck it. I'm glad we're not going. I'm glad we didn't even qualify for the playoff spot. They may have gone on to be an even bigger embarrassment.

We want to to talk about NFL players kneeling and insulting the flag. Fuck that. This is an absolute disgrace to the U.S., our flag, first responders, the troops, the Constitution, the fucking Bill of Rights, our freedoms, our so-called greatness.


Wow, you really lost it.

Who knew that people in the US actually care about soccer?


Exactly. I'm reading through the outrage on this thread thinking "Haven't the US always sucked at soccer?"

I mean, they usually qualify but it would be a huge victory just to advance past the quarter finals.

First time in 30 years we haven't qualified for a World Cup. We've not had super-talented players through the years, but we've at least been able to qualify. We've at least been able to be competitive more times than not.

Gnothi Seauton.
Quote Reply
Re: USA Out of World Cup [Steve Hawley] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Steve Hawley wrote:
was out one night in Iraq doing some stuff and we began to hear gunfire all around us? It quickly built into a steady roar of immense proportions. Call came over radio--Iraq had beaten somebody like Egypt or Syria in soccer. Every MF'r in the country with a AK and/or PKM was out pumping lead into the sky. We had to climb into our armored vehicles to seek cover. That's national level commitment baby!

/r

Got that right, Skipper. Until we see soccer stampedes in stadiums here that kill 30 or 40 people and injure hundreds (I'm thinking Juventus-Liverpool in 1985), or players shot dead in cold blood by disgruntled fans, we're just pikers in the great game. ;-)

"Politics is just show business for ugly people."
Quote Reply
Re: USA Out of World Cup [crowny2] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
crowny2 wrote:
ThisIsIt wrote:
crowny2 wrote:

The Pay to Play is also ruining development. When it costs $2-$6k per year for a player to play on a good squad, you are automatically eliminating a pool of talent. That kind of crap doesn't happen anywhere else but here. And it is ALL about the $.


A big issue is that clubs need to win because that's the metric that attracts parents to fork over money. At a proper academy the metric that matters is turning out professional players, not winning youth games.


Agreed. Leander Schaerlaeckens (I think) wrote this fantastic 5 part article for ESPNFC (Back when it was Soccernet) that I can't find anymore. Talked about the problem with soccer in the US and the foundation was in their development. The squads are set up to win, not to develop (including how the teams play too many games and in practice it was too regimented and doesn't allow for natural development of skills) was the long and short of it. Wish it was still around because it couldn't be more timely than today.

ETA: corrected Leander's last name. I always misspell it.

In Europe clubs have scouts out looking for talented youth. When found they are brought in for a trial, if good enough they stick around until they find someone better than them or they make it. So relentless selective pressure and specific training to develop a professional player.

In the U.S. almost everyone is developed by the hit or miss means that kids who aren't good enough to get into professional clubs in Europe go through.

My kids are in 9th and 6th grade, have done club soccer and school soccer for years yet are missing some basic skills. Neither one had ever done a heading or chest trapping drill until my son did one with his HS team this year. On my daughter's teams almost no one can trap a ball that comes at them in the air from more than about 10 feet away.
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Re: USA Out of World Cup [crowny2] [ In reply to ]
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That was a great article. And very poignant.

Funny you mention him, he's a great guy, we played on the same men's team up until a few months ago.
Quote Reply
Re: USA Out of World Cup [ThisIsIt] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
ThisIsIt wrote:
crowny2 wrote:
ThisIsIt wrote:
crowny2 wrote:

The Pay to Play is also ruining development. When it costs $2-$6k per year for a player to play on a good squad, you are automatically eliminating a pool of talent. That kind of crap doesn't happen anywhere else but here. And it is ALL about the $.


A big issue is that clubs need to win because that's the metric that attracts parents to fork over money. At a proper academy the metric that matters is turning out professional players, not winning youth games.


Agreed. Leander Schaerlaeckens (I think) wrote this fantastic 5 part article for ESPNFC (Back when it was Soccernet) that I can't find anymore. Talked about the problem with soccer in the US and the foundation was in their development. The squads are set up to win, not to develop (including how the teams play too many games and in practice it was too regimented and doesn't allow for natural development of skills) was the long and short of it. Wish it was still around because it couldn't be more timely than today.

ETA: corrected Leander's last name. I always misspell it.


In Europe clubs have scouts out looking for talented youth. When found they are brought in for a trial, if good enough they stick around until they find someone better than them or they make it. So relentless selective pressure and specific training to develop a professional player.

In the U.S. almost everyone is developed by the hit or miss means that kids who aren't good enough to get into professional clubs in Europe go through.

My kids are in 9th and 6th grade, have done club soccer and school soccer for years yet are missing some basic skills. Neither one had ever done a heading or chest trapping drill until my son did one with his HS team this year. On my daughter's teams almost no one can trap a ball that comes at them in the air from more than about 10 feet away.

What in the ever loving fuck is going on??? Jesus christ.

Never chest trapped or headed a ball until high school?! You're serious, right?

Gnothi Seauton.
Quote Reply
Re: USA Out of World Cup [ThisIsIt] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
ThisIsIt wrote:
crowny2 wrote:
ThisIsIt wrote:
crowny2 wrote:

The Pay to Play is also ruining development. When it costs $2-$6k per year for a player to play on a good squad, you are automatically eliminating a pool of talent. That kind of crap doesn't happen anywhere else but here. And it is ALL about the $.


A big issue is that clubs need to win because that's the metric that attracts parents to fork over money. At a proper academy the metric that matters is turning out professional players, not winning youth games.


Agreed. Leander Schaerlaeckens (I think) wrote this fantastic 5 part article for ESPNFC (Back when it was Soccernet) that I can't find anymore. Talked about the problem with soccer in the US and the foundation was in their development. The squads are set up to win, not to develop (including how the teams play too many games and in practice it was too regimented and doesn't allow for natural development of skills) was the long and short of it. Wish it was still around because it couldn't be more timely than today.

ETA: corrected Leander's last name. I always misspell it.


In Europe clubs have scouts out looking for talented youth. When found they are brought in for a trial, if good enough they stick around until they find someone better than them or they make it. So relentless selective pressure and specific training to develop a professional player.

In the U.S. almost everyone is developed by the hit or miss means that kids who aren't good enough to get into professional clubs in Europe go through.

My kids are in 9th and 6th grade, have done club soccer and school soccer for years yet are missing some basic skills. Neither one had ever done a heading or chest trapping drill until my son did one with his HS team this year. On my daughter's teams almost no one can trap a ball that comes at them in the air from more than about 10 feet away.

That's because a lot of the coaches at the youth level are barely skilled beyond the basics themselves or are doing it out of a sense of obligation, trying to the learn the intricacies of the game while learning it themselves. It's going to take several more generations, at the sport's rate of growth in this country, before you see the same sort of skills emphasis in the introductory levels that you see being taught almost as an afterthought over in countries where the sport is traditionally an obsession for the populace.

Honestly, given the short attention span we proudly display at every opportunity, I'm not sure we'll ever become as skilled at what the rest of the world calls "football." At least not until the NFL and college football die out, which the pro sports league may just do in another decade, the way it's going. ;-)

"Politics is just show business for ugly people."
Quote Reply
Re: USA Out of World Cup [crowny2] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
crowny2 wrote:
ThisIsIt wrote:
crowny2 wrote:

The Pay to Play is also ruining development. When it costs $2-$6k per year for a player to play on a good squad, you are automatically eliminating a pool of talent. That kind of crap doesn't happen anywhere else but here. And it is ALL about the $.


A big issue is that clubs need to win because that's the metric that attracts parents to fork over money. At a proper academy the metric that matters is turning out professional players, not winning youth games.


Agreed. Leander Schaerlaeckens (I think) wrote this fantastic 5 part article for ESPNFC (Back when it was Soccernet) that I can't find anymore. Talked about the problem with soccer in the US and the foundation was in their development. The squads are set up to win, not to develop (including how the teams play too many games and in practice it was too regimented and doesn't allow for natural development of skills) was the long and short of it. Wish it was still around because it couldn't be more timely than today.

ETA: corrected Leander's last name. I always misspell it.

NBC sports has a good hour long documentary about Southhampton's youth academy. When you see how a proper academy operates it's remarkable any decent players come from anywhere else but through them. But I guess not that many do.
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Re: USA Out of World Cup [Yeeper] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Yeeper wrote:
That was a great article. And very poignant.

Funny you mention him, he's a great guy, we played on the same men's team up until a few months ago.

It was a fantastic one that I wish was still around. Great 5 part article that was well thought out and researched. If you see him, tell him to post it again. :D
Quote Reply
Re: USA Out of World Cup [big kahuna] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
big kahuna wrote:
ThisIsIt wrote:
crowny2 wrote:
ThisIsIt wrote:
crowny2 wrote:

The Pay to Play is also ruining development. When it costs $2-$6k per year for a player to play on a good squad, you are automatically eliminating a pool of talent. That kind of crap doesn't happen anywhere else but here. And it is ALL about the $.


A big issue is that clubs need to win because that's the metric that attracts parents to fork over money. At a proper academy the metric that matters is turning out professional players, not winning youth games.


Agreed. Leander Schaerlaeckens (I think) wrote this fantastic 5 part article for ESPNFC (Back when it was Soccernet) that I can't find anymore. Talked about the problem with soccer in the US and the foundation was in their development. The squads are set up to win, not to develop (including how the teams play too many games and in practice it was too regimented and doesn't allow for natural development of skills) was the long and short of it. Wish it was still around because it couldn't be more timely than today.

ETA: corrected Leander's last name. I always misspell it.


In Europe clubs have scouts out looking for talented youth. When found they are brought in for a trial, if good enough they stick around until they find someone better than them or they make it. So relentless selective pressure and specific training to develop a professional player.

In the U.S. almost everyone is developed by the hit or miss means that kids who aren't good enough to get into professional clubs in Europe go through.

My kids are in 9th and 6th grade, have done club soccer and school soccer for years yet are missing some basic skills. Neither one had ever done a heading or chest trapping drill until my son did one with his HS team this year. On my daughter's teams almost no one can trap a ball that comes at them in the air from more than about 10 feet away.

That's because a lot of the coaches at the youth level are barely skilled beyond the basics themselves or are doing it out of a sense of obligation, trying to the learn the intricacies of the game while learning it themselves. It's going to take several more generations, at the sport's rate of growth in this country, before you see the same sort of skills emphasis in the introductory levels that you see being taught almost as an afterthought over in countries where the sport is traditionally an obsession for the populace.

Honestly, given the short attention span we proudly display at every opportunity, I'm not sure we'll ever become as skilled at what the rest of the world calls "football." At least not until the NFL and college football die out, which the pro sports league may just do in another decade, the way it's going. ;-)

Ironically my youth coaches were all foreign born or lived overseas dads because 30 years ago none of the other dads knew anything about soccer
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Re: USA Out of World Cup [windschatten] [ In reply to ]
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windschatten wrote:

These kids did all they could, which wasn't enough.

First, they're not kids, they are grown men being paid to plat for their country. And second, if you think that effort last night was doing "all they could" then you define that differently than I do. I thought they played with zero effort or emotion and didn't seem especially bothered about the outcome until they realized they didn't qualify. They acted as if it were a done deal, counting on Mexico or Costa Rica I guess, when all they needed was to handle their own business. They didn't. And they are to blame.
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Re: USA Out of World Cup [windywave] [ In reply to ]
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windywave wrote:

Ironically my youth coaches were all foreign born or lived overseas dads because 30 years ago none of the other dads knew anything about soccer

Yup. Born in the 80's to European parents. Of course I played soccer as a kid.

The best teams had foreign parents coaching, because they grew up with the sport. Imagine some parent fresh off the boat from Italy attempting to coach youth football in America compared to someone who grew up in, say, Texas.

Long Chile was a silly place.
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Re: USA Out of World Cup [DJRed] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
DJRed wrote:
This is 100% false. Player identification, centralized training programs, and the number of parents willing to drive hours for a better team and better coach have never been more prevalent in US Soccer.

Your take is from 1985.
Yet the US was in the 1986 World Cup and not the 2018 World Cup.

I won't pretend to be close to the sport because I'm not, but in my circle of friends, coworkers, family the kids played youth soccer and gravitate to other sports when they hit their teens, including a few very good athlete cousins. Someone else mentioned it, $2-6K to play for the good travel programs...how do you develop elite talent when you have a huge nation with talent spread throughout and almost no money spent on development? Say I'm wrong all you want and we've gotten better, if this is to be an elite program we need to actually spend money.
http://www.philly.com/...onal-teams-NWSL.html

$18MM surplus in 2015 alone. They have $100MM in dough right now:
http://www.sgeosoccerclub.com/...?referrer_id=2926058

Why isn't that revenue being re-invested in the development program? Do they have a long-term strategy for the money, because their year-over-year expenditures have remained relatively static for quite some despite despite growing revenues.

I'm sticking by what I said: the development program isn't strong enough to compete with elite soccer nations, at least not when you consider the size of this country and the logistical problems that can create.
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Re: USA Out of World Cup [BCtriguy1] [ In reply to ]
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American soccer development has implemented a hopelessly direct style for generations. It's as if we've decided to coach our players in a game of chess, and instruct them that the only useful moves are the ones that put the opponent's king directly in check. Any other movement is simply deemed a waste.

"The right to party is a battle we have fought, but we'll surrender and go Amish... NOT!" -Wayne Campbell
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Re: USA Out of World Cup [Brownie28] [ In reply to ]
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MLS teams have been acquiring lower tier teams and starting academies. They just aren't turning out good players
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Re: USA Out of World Cup [Uncle Arqyle] [ In reply to ]
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Just think if you were Dutch, you'd have a real reason to complain.

There goes my only reason to watch the World Cup...

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Re: USA Out of World Cup [windschatten] [ In reply to ]
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Wow, brutal to beat on a poorly coached and poorly developed team.

Just blame the players....very classy!

These kids did all they could, which wasn't enough.

You want to give the players, the ones on the field who couldn't score, a free pass and instead blame the development system? How many goals did the coach of Mexico score?
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Re: USA Out of World Cup [slowguy] [ In reply to ]
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Don't worry, it's just part of our grand scheme to delegitimize Russia by not taking part in their World Cup, without having to go through the hassle of a boycott.

The world has never seen a strategy like that.

Trump is brilliant.

Last edited by: Sanuk: Oct 11, 17 8:27
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Re: USA Out of World Cup [BCtriguy1] [ In reply to ]
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Exactly. I'm reading through the outrage on this thread thinking "Haven't the US always sucked at soccer?"

I mean, they usually qualify but it would be a huge victory just to advance past the quarter finals.

If they would just open the border, lots of Mexicans could come in and in a few years, their team would be great.

Thanks Trump!!!

Quote Reply
Re: USA Out of World Cup [Steve Hawley] [ In reply to ]
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Every MF'r in the country with a AK and/or PKM was out pumping lead into the sky.

You should talk with Roger Goodell. The NFL needs new ideas to help sell the game.

Quote Reply
Re: USA Out of World Cup [Ready4Launch] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Ready4Launch wrote:
ThisIsIt wrote:
crowny2 wrote:
ThisIsIt wrote:
crowny2 wrote:

The Pay to Play is also ruining development. When it costs $2-$6k per year for a player to play on a good squad, you are automatically eliminating a pool of talent. That kind of crap doesn't happen anywhere else but here. And it is ALL about the $.


A big issue is that clubs need to win because that's the metric that attracts parents to fork over money. At a proper academy the metric that matters is turning out professional players, not winning youth games.


Agreed. Leander Schaerlaeckens (I think) wrote this fantastic 5 part article for ESPNFC (Back when it was Soccernet) that I can't find anymore. Talked about the problem with soccer in the US and the foundation was in their development. The squads are set up to win, not to develop (including how the teams play too many games and in practice it was too regimented and doesn't allow for natural development of skills) was the long and short of it. Wish it was still around because it couldn't be more timely than today.

ETA: corrected Leander's last name. I always misspell it.


In Europe clubs have scouts out looking for talented youth. When found they are brought in for a trial, if good enough they stick around until they find someone better than them or they make it. So relentless selective pressure and specific training to develop a professional player.

In the U.S. almost everyone is developed by the hit or miss means that kids who aren't good enough to get into professional clubs in Europe go through.

My kids are in 9th and 6th grade, have done club soccer and school soccer for years yet are missing some basic skills. Neither one had ever done a heading or chest trapping drill until my son did one with his HS team this year. On my daughter's teams almost no one can trap a ball that comes at them in the air from more than about 10 feet away.


What in the ever loving fuck is going on??? Jesus christ.

Never chest trapped or headed a ball until high school?! You're serious, right?

Well, never did a drill in practice to work on it.

My kids soccer training is hit or miss.

Summer is off, Fall is travel soccer through town rec (coach is a parent usually), simultaneous is school soccer which has been a gym teacher (HS is actually a former South American professional player), Winter and Spring is club soccer, usually with a different coach every year.

Easy to see how things could be missed, there is no overall structure to any of it.
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Re: USA Out of World Cup [ThisIsIt] [ In reply to ]
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Wow - that just amazes me that it's 2017 and your kids never did a drill in practice to properly trap and control the ball. That's the kind of stuff that I would accept as predictable from the late 80s to mid/late 90s when moms and dads were "getting involved with soccer".

I can't speak about your kids obviously, but generally, 9th grader without those skills is going to be toasted. It's good if he's playing and enjoying it, but it's not good for player development. A 6th grader may still have a chance with the right inputs and focus. But, just as importantly, they have to be having fun and from that want to get better themselves.

I don't think there needs to be an overall structure through the year. They need the correct instruction. They need the basics; the cake before the icing, the crawl before the walk before the run. It seems that definitely didn't happen in your kids' cases.

Get them off the field and get them inside a rink. Get them playing indoor soccer. It'll be the best jump start you could give your 6th grader

Gnothi Seauton.
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Re: USA Out of World Cup [DJRed] [ In reply to ]
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"I have no words. Can we somehow blame this on Trump or Obama? "


The best I can do is at the end of the Mexico game, they had a free kick just outside the box. The WALL STOPPED the Mexican goal that would have resulted in a tie. A tie would have sent the US into a final playoff with a crappy Asian team to determine who would get the last spot.
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Re: USA Out of World Cup [jepvb] [ In reply to ]
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PSA. By law (Slowman's law AFAIK), US men's soccer threads aren't allowed to go past 100 posts. This has never happened before so let's not start now.

You may resume kneeling in protest of this travesty.
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Re: USA Out of World Cup [jepvb] [ In reply to ]
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One thing I have noticed in sports where the typical score is 1-0 or decided by one point, goal, or run is that on any given day the worst team can beat the best team. Now over the course of a season like in baseball, the great teams float to the top, but on any single day they can and do get beat by the worst team.

I guess in soccer it is even more the case as it seems like 1 goal differentials are the norm, and they don't play as many games as a baseball season has to determine who gets to go to playoffs. It seems to be more what happens on a given day or tournament that decides teams fates.

I think it happens in hockey a lot too, probably why a lot of these team sports use 5 or 7 games once the playoffs start to decide who continues on. Win most/every game or go home sports can be brutal sometimes.

I have no comment about the players or coaching abilities, just feel sorry for the US fans that have to go to their 2nd most favorite team now, if they have one...
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Re: USA Out of World Cup [Ready4Launch] [ In reply to ]
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Ready4Launch wrote:
I don't think there needs to be an overall structure through the year. They need the correct instruction. They need the basics; the cake before the icing, the crawl before the walk before the run. It seems that definitely didn't happen in your kids' cases.

Yeah but the basics can get missed if there is no overall plan. Honestly, they have received next to no training through travel soccer and school. That is largely about getting them organized for playing games, and the coaches don't have much if any knowledge for skills work anyway.

The club soccer in winter is a couple times a week, a day of foot work mostly dribbling and maybe a pick up type game on weekends. In Spring is about the only time they've had someone working with that knows all that much (other than the foot work), and even then it is too heavily focused on games, usually one practice a week and a game on weekends.

Another thing among many that they have never really had is agility work, which I would assume is a mainstay of kids at decent clubs.
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Re: USA Out of World Cup [Sanuk] [ In reply to ]
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Sanuk wrote:
Wow, brutal to beat on a poorly coached and poorly developed team.

Just blame the players....very classy!

These kids did all they could, which wasn't enough.

You want to give the players, the ones on the field who couldn't score, a free pass and instead blame the development system? How many goals did the coach of Mexico score?

Don't be ridiculous, I am not giving them a free pass.
I grant every athlete out there on a national team the benefit that they want to do their best for their Country.

Their showing was a display of lack of preparation, confidence and tactical (coaching) errors.

And I suggest you read 'Burnman"'s post.
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Re: USA Out of World Cup [jepvb] [ In reply to ]
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my two cents... years ago I was a screaming soccer dad. I helped melt the ice caps by hammering my z28 to get my son to where ever and what ever he had to go. I would never do that again...wasteful stupid. Since i have noticed too many overcoddled rich kids being promoted in the soccer cirlces...non of this surprises me.

sometimes
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Re: USA Out of World Cup [DJRed] [ In reply to ]
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First one bites the dust. Arena's out.

Gnothi Seauton.
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Re: USA Out of World Cup [Ready4Launch] [ In reply to ]
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Galati should be next.

The USMNT lost it’s identity. For 30 years we were known as low talent, hard working, high energy, better conditioned team that had to scrap and fight.

This was our most talented team but somewhere over the last 4 years they lost the desire and competitive edge.

Will be difficult to get it back. Need to ditch the old guard and bring in new blood. The u-17 team has won its group at their World Cup.

There is hope.
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Re: USA Out of World Cup [Ready4Launch] [ In reply to ]
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No surprise there. People were obviously calling for his head, but giving him the immediate boot was not the right answer. His resignation (while little more than a cosmetic change) buys US soccer a bit of time before they need to demonstrate action.

"The right to party is a battle we have fought, but we'll surrender and go Amish... NOT!" -Wayne Campbell
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Re: USA Out of World Cup [burnman] [ In reply to ]
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Yeah, yesterday Arena's own comments were that he didn't want to go through another 4 year cycle, and said he'll go with whatever is right. Well, I think it was made apparent what was right.

Problem now is: who steps into this job? Gulati, if he doesn't resign -- which he likely won't -- then the election is in February. Particularly, if you're an outsider coming into the US job and the man who picked you is ousted in February, then you may be looking at a quick exit yourself. In truth, though, I don't think they'll bring in an outsider. Still tenuous until the time that Gulati leaves.

Gnothi Seauton.
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Re: USA Out of World Cup [Ready4Launch] [ In reply to ]
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Ready4Launch wrote:
First one bites the dust. Arena's out.

Not surprising.

As a coach of many teams of different talent levels, I can firmly assert the teams with the more talented players always made me seem outwardly that I was a better coach.

Truth be told, I coached a state champ that my grandmom could have had success coaching. And, I've coached a lowest division U10 team that, to this day, remains my most successful personal triumph. However, not many looking in from the outside would see it the same way.
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Re: USA Out of World Cup [mustangchef] [ In reply to ]
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mustangchef wrote:
my two cents... years ago I was a screaming soccer dad. I helped melt the ice caps by hammering my z28 to get my son to where ever and what ever he had to go. I would never do that again...wasteful stupid. Since i have noticed too many overcoddled rich kids being promoted in the soccer cirlces...non of this surprises me.

My coaching mentor, Mike Barr, and current technical director is quoted in this article: http://www.delcotimes.com/...011/SPORTS/171019906

In it, he makes the same point you make, which is also one that has permeated conventional wisdom for some time.

My question is: Why do we assume these "inner-city", or "underprivileged", basically "not white" kids (c'mon let's all be adult and say it) want to play soccer. Last I checked, these kids find their way to football and basketball. Go to any inner city basketball hoop and there will be 50 kids ballin'. Many times, there's a full soccer field right next to it...and it's empty.

This is a nature and nurture debate. If daddy played football and thought soccer players were "foot fags", guess what, junior is playing football, too.

I don't dispute that youth soccer is ridiculously and unnecessarily expensive. But I also know that youth and high school teams in my area cover the costs for these underprivileged players who can't afford to play. When they get to the college level, that's where they need more help from US soccer. I can assure you, though, that all these BMW-driving soccer parents who we lament, dig deep into their pockets to subsidize talented "underprivileged" players who make their kid's team better and good enough to play at Dallas Cup, Jeff Cup, and in the elite state leagues.

I've seen it. I know of a team that has two kids who are picked up twice a week from over 90 minutes away for training by parents of other kids on the team. The cost for these players (uniforms, travel, fees, etc.) to the tune of thousands of dollars are fully paid by the team. Why? These kids are twins and they can put the ball in the net like you've never seen.

This support will stop when the club team breaks up and everyone goes to college. It's at that point US Soccer needs to identify and support these players. It's not at the club level.
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Re: USA Out of World Cup [tri_yoda] [ In reply to ]
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Most sports teams are run at a loss. They are tax writeoffs for their wealthy owners. They plow money into salaries, facilities, and marketing, in order to sell tickets and win championships. An owner then gets all their financial return when they turn around and sell the team. That income stream is in turn taxed as capital gains. Your bottom five NBA teams lose $10 - $15 million a year. There were 14 unprofitable NDA teams in 2016.

There are certainly exceptions -- Knicks, Lakers, Bulls -- who sell so much merch that being unprofitable is nearly impossible.

About half of the WNBA teams are profitable.
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Re: USA Out of World Cup [sea.bryan] [ In reply to ]
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Most sports teams are run at a loss. They are tax writeoffs for their wealthy owners. They plow money into salaries, facilities, and marketing, in order to sell tickets and win championships. An owner then gets all their financial return when they turn around and sell the team.

That's exactly right and one reason why I hate it when owners expect the city and taxpayers to pay for new stadiums. They operate at a loss, get tax write-offs, get government subsidies and then make hundreds of millions when they sell the franchise. I've never seen one owner, who had help from taxpayers and then made a profit on the sale, repay any of that money. Go figure.

If I were on a city government and a owner wanted a free stadium, I would add a condition that if the franchise moved or changed ownership, part of the proceeds would go to repaying the subsidy.

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Re: USA Out of World Cup [DJRed] [ In reply to ]
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I think you missed the point of the coaches very accurate comments. Kids in the United States don't play for fun. They are over coached. They have no creativity, technical skills and are never taught how to actually play the game. It is about winning. Put the biggest and strongest out on the field and let them over power their opponent so Johnny can get a trophy. When they get older they get their ass handed to them by kids from countries who learned how to play the game in the streets with friends. Dempsey is a great example. One of the greatest to ever play in the United States, he learned to play soccer in the streets, not by having his parents overpay some white guy in Texas a fortune to ruin the game for him. The United States will NEVER be a soccer power until the pay for play system is killed or dramatically changed. If Renaldo or Messi were from Texas neither would be playing the game today.

And yes the coach is correct. Head to any major city and you will find Hispanic young men and kids playing soccer in a way which most white, suburban white kids will never understand. They are having fun and have far more skills then the local high school star. Get those kids playing, bring in a coach from outside the United States, bring creativity and fun to the game, and the U.S. has a chance. On our current path, we are what we are. A below average, unskilled soccer wannabe.

DJRed wrote:
mustangchef wrote:
my two cents... years ago I was a screaming soccer dad. I helped melt the ice caps by hammering my z28 to get my son to where ever and what ever he had to go. I would never do that again...wasteful stupid. Since i have noticed too many overcoddled rich kids being promoted in the soccer cirlces...non of this surprises me.


My coaching mentor, Mike Barr, and current technical director is quoted in this article: http://www.delcotimes.com/...011/SPORTS/171019906

In it, he makes the same point you make, which is also one that has permeated conventional wisdom for some time.

My question is: Why do we assume these "inner-city", or "underprivileged", basically "not white" kids (c'mon let's all be adult and say it) want to play soccer. Last I checked, these kids find their way to football and basketball. Go to any inner city basketball hoop and there will be 50 kids ballin'. Many times, there's a full soccer field right next to it...and it's empty.

This is a nature and nurture debate. If daddy played football and thought soccer players were "foot fags", guess what, junior is playing football, too.

I don't dispute that youth soccer is ridiculously and unnecessarily expensive. But I also know that youth and high school teams in my area cover the costs for these underprivileged players who can't afford to play. When they get to the college level, that's where they need more help from US soccer. I can assure you, though, that all these BMW-driving soccer parents who we lament, dig deep into their pockets to subsidize talented "underprivileged" players who make their kid's team better and good enough to play at Dallas Cup, Jeff Cup, and in the elite state leagues.

I've seen it. I know of a team that has two kids who are picked up twice a week from over 90 minutes away for training by parents of other kids on the team. The cost for these players (uniforms, travel, fees, etc.) to the tune of thousands of dollars are fully paid by the team. Why? These kids are twins and they can put the ball in the net like you've never seen.

This support will stop when the club team breaks up and everyone goes to college. It's at that point US Soccer needs to identify and support these players. It's not at the club level.
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Re: USA Out of World Cup [jwbeuk] [ In reply to ]
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jwbeuk wrote:
I think you missed the point of the coaches very accurate comments. Kids in the United States don't play for fun. They are over coached. They have no creativity, technical skills and are never taught how to actually play the game. It is about winning. Put the biggest and strongest out on the field and let them over power their opponent so Johnny can get a trophy. When they get older they get their ass handed to them by kids from countries who learned how to play the game in the streets with friends. Dempsey is a great example. One of the greatest to ever play in the United States, he learned to play soccer in the streets, not by having his parents overpay some white guy in Texas a fortune to ruin the game for him. The United States will NEVER be a soccer power until the pay for play system is killed or dramatically changed. If Renaldo or Messi were from Texas neither would be playing the game today.

And yes the coach is correct. Head to any major city and you will find Hispanic young men and kids playing soccer in a way which most white, suburban white kids will never understand. They are having fun and have far more skills then the local high school star. Get those kids playing, bring in a coach from outside the United States, bring creativity and fun to the game, and the U.S. has a chance. On our current path, we are what we are. A below average, unskilled soccer wannabe.

DJRed wrote:
mustangchef wrote:
my two cents... years ago I was a screaming soccer dad. I helped melt the ice caps by hammering my z28 to get my son to where ever and what ever he had to go. I would never do that again...wasteful stupid. Since i have noticed too many overcoddled rich kids being promoted in the soccer cirlces...non of this surprises me.


My coaching mentor, Mike Barr, and current technical director is quoted in this article: http://www.delcotimes.com/...011/SPORTS/171019906

In it, he makes the same point you make, which is also one that has permeated conventional wisdom for some time.

My question is: Why do we assume these "inner-city", or "underprivileged", basically "not white" kids (c'mon let's all be adult and say it) want to play soccer. Last I checked, these kids find their way to football and basketball. Go to any inner city basketball hoop and there will be 50 kids ballin'. Many times, there's a full soccer field right next to it...and it's empty.

This is a nature and nurture debate. If daddy played football and thought soccer players were "foot fags", guess what, junior is playing football, too.

I don't dispute that youth soccer is ridiculously and unnecessarily expensive. But I also know that youth and high school teams in my area cover the costs for these underprivileged players who can't afford to play. When they get to the college level, that's where they need more help from US soccer. I can assure you, though, that all these BMW-driving soccer parents who we lament, dig deep into their pockets to subsidize talented "underprivileged" players who make their kid's team better and good enough to play at Dallas Cup, Jeff Cup, and in the elite state leagues.

I've seen it. I know of a team that has two kids who are picked up twice a week from over 90 minutes away for training by parents of other kids on the team. The cost for these players (uniforms, travel, fees, etc.) to the tune of thousands of dollars are fully paid by the team. Why? These kids are twins and they can put the ball in the net like you've never seen.

This support will stop when the club team breaks up and everyone goes to college. It's at that point US Soccer needs to identify and support these players. It's not at the club level.

No, I'm 100% with you and him. I simply focused on one aspect of the article. My training sessions are fun and devoid of "drills". I encourage risk taking on the field and learning from mistakes made.
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Re: USA Out of World Cup [burnman] [ In reply to ]
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burnman wrote:
No surprise there. People were obviously calling for his head, but giving him the immediate boot was not the right answer. His resignation (while little more than a cosmetic change) buys US soccer a bit of time before they need to demonstrate action.

No they should have done him like USC and Pat Hayden did Lane Kiffin, fire him before he gets on the plane home.

On another topic here is why the future is bleak, USA Soccer and their rules regarding headers.

http://usclubsoccer.org/...g-for-youth-players/

All I Wanted Was A Pepsi, Just One Pepsi

Team Zoot, Team Zoot Mid-Atlantic

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Re: USA Out of World Cup [jepvb] [ In reply to ]
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No big deal. All this means is that we can watch and treat the cup in the exact same way that we typically watch and treat the cup after the second round.

And there have been better footballing nations who have failed to qualify than the US, so this puts us in good company.
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Re: USA Out of World Cup [Billabong] [ In reply to ]
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Billabong wrote:
burnman wrote:
No surprise there. People were obviously calling for his head, but giving him the immediate boot was not the right answer. His resignation (while little more than a cosmetic change) buys US soccer a bit of time before they need to demonstrate action.


No they should have done him like USC and Pat Hayden did Lane Kiffin, fire him before he gets on the plane home.

On another topic here is why the future is bleak, USA Soccer and their rules regarding headers.

http://usclubsoccer.org/...g-for-youth-players/


Several of the leading soccer federations do not let their accredited coaches "train" headers under the age of 10-11.

It does make sense and does not limit player development at all.
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Re: USA Out of World Cup [Ready4Launch] [ In reply to ]
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Ready4Launch wrote:
Yeah, yesterday Arena's own comments were that he didn't want to go through another 4 year cycle, and said he'll go with whatever is right. Well, I think it was made apparent what was right.

Problem now is: who steps into this job? Gulati, if he doesn't resign -- which he likely won't -- then the election is in February. Particularly, if you're an outsider coming into the US job and the man who picked you is ousted in February, then you may be looking at a quick exit yourself. In truth, though, I don't think they'll bring in an outsider. Still tenuous until the time that Gulati leaves.


No idea if this would do anything, but I just signed this petition https://www.change.org/...l-gulati-resignation

He's actually a lecturer at my alma pater, and if I were still a student there, I'd stage some protest to call for his resignation

AlanShearer wrote:
No big deal. All this means is that we can watch and treat the cup in the exact same way that we typically watch and treat the cup after the second round.

And there have been better footballing nations who have failed to qualify than the US, so this puts us in good company.

Basically how you guys (the English) have been treating the cup for the last decade or so :p?
Last edited by: echappist: Oct 13, 17 21:20
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Re: USA Out of World Cup [echappist] [ In reply to ]
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echappist wrote:
No idea if this would do anything, but I just signed this petition https://www.change.org/...l-gulati-resignation

He's actually a lecturer at my alma pater, and if I were still a student there, I'd stage some protest to call for his resignation

Well, what Columbia snob is going to pay attention to a petty petition?! *eyeroll* (joking about the Columbia generalization, although for Gulati, he may think he's above it.)

I hope there will be a fair number that stand up to run, which will collectively gain momentum for someone else to take over. Eric Wynalda, Dan Gans, John Motta, and Paul Lapointe are potential new presidents.

Gnothi Seauton.
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