Was the question "Will you marry me?"

The translation...I'm going to ask you something that I know you don't want to do, but I want/expect you to say yes.

 
Pretty common negotiation tool. I think this about sums it up:


"The problem with this approach is that the relationship between the two parties is often permanently damaged. The person asking for something may receive it, but the second person probably feels taken advantage of and, perhaps, angry and resentful. If it wasn't really a willing "yes," the second person is unlikely to complete the work quickly, or with a positive attitude."

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"The great pleasure in life is doing what people say you cannot do."

Who are you? My wife?

ya dude you nailed it

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sometimes

"I know this is a big deal, but I really need you to say yes but I have no basis to expect you to say yes and I am overstepping my bounds, but I will still be unhappy with you if you say no."

Unless the question was, "can I put it in your butt?" In that case they expect a no.

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I'm beginning to think that we are much more fucked than I thought.

I get something in this nature every time I get a call from my sister....usually the "you don't have to say yes" is substituted with "I understand if you can't"

Usually it involves her wanting me to do, give time or money or provide a favor of some sort to help fix a fuck up of hers.

Funny, I see this as totally different- but this is eye opening.

I have a lot of weird ideas and they get caught in my head - so I'll say "what would you think if we turned the living room into the dining room and the dining room into an office - I'm not asking you to say yes."

Usually the response is that is a really weird idea and will not work well with the vaulted ceilings. Then that idea is done and I dream up another crazy one.

When I actually really want something and have decided already I use there is something that is important to me that I would like your help with.

My interpretation is "I know I'm asking a lot of you here and if you say no I completely understand, but I really need this....." I often get asked a question like that at work when someone is proposing a call swap that is not in my favor or vise versa. I think it's an acknowledgment of a "big ask" and an "out if the person being asked wants to say no."

That’s why I never ask first.

Easier to get forgiveness than permission.

They usually like it anyway. It’s just rare for them to admit it.

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Civilize the mind, but make savage the body.

- Chinese proverb

In my experience it's totally dependent on the person asking and the strength of our relationship.

With some people it means "I totally understand if you don't want to and that's OK" or "I really need you to be honest even if you think I'll be hurt if you say no".

With others it means "I expect you to say yes". With these people saying no is usually met with "why not?", "well what else are you doing?" or "can't you do this instead?".

You can tell a lot about the relationship by saying "no"...

An American businessman, while in Japan for some business meetings and a few rounds of golf, arrived in Tokyo a day earlier than expected. Feeling lonely that evening, he employed the services of a beautiful young Japanese girl to be his companion for the evening. Although the Japanese girl spoke very little English and the businessman spoke no Japanese, their passion roared and in the heat of the moment she began yelling "Gama Su!, Gama Su!". Hearing this, the Californian knew he had pleased his female Japanese friend and soon afterwards went to sleep. The next day while playing golf with his Japanese business colleagues, one of his Japanese partners holed his shot from 170 yards away! Everyone went crazy and began yelling excitedly in Japanese. Wanting to impress his friends, the Californian joined in and began yelling, "Gama Su! Gama Su!" Suddenly everyone became quiet.








































After a moment of silence, one of the Japanese turned to him and asked "Wrong hole? What do you mean wrong hole?"

I have friends and family members who feel obliged to say yes when I ask a favour so I'll start with something along the lines of "I totally understand if you don't want to and that's OK". It's not meant to be manipulative, but to make it clear that I'm okay if they say no. Otherwise they'll say yes and either be unhappy about it or later squirm out of the commitment at a point when it 's a pain.

They think it's your finger.

I’ve fingered the butthole of every chick I’ve been with, more than once.

100% of them liked it.

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Civilize the mind, but make savage the body.

- Chinese proverb

The answers here are interesting and not what my engineering brain would have expected.


usually when I say, "You don't have to say yes," or some version of that, I quite literally mean that I have no expectations of you doing what I ask and won't be offended if you say no.


It seems however that you humans prefer to use this as some sort of reverse psychology. Like when the managers at work tell us that we should focus on the life part of our work life balance, what they really mean is that we should feel like we have a bad work ethic and should focus more on the work part of our work life balance so that we can get ourselves to the level where our boss needs to tell us to back off.

*shrug*

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-----------------------------Baron Von Speedypants
-----------------------------RunTraining articles here:
http://forum.slowtwitch.com/...runtraining;#1612485

I would think they're going to ask for something that they do not have the social capital to ask for.

For those who are not sincere in the statement it's usually a way to avoiding feeling guilt for pressuring someone into doing something they never wanted to do in the first place. "But I said you didn't have to say yes..."

+1 (except for the engineering brain part).

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Civilize the mind, but make savage the body.

- Chinese proverb

Sort of manipulative, usually someone doesn't want to do something and needs a fall guy.

That's the first move. If you don't hear "no," it means yes. And that's not to say that "no" can't mean "yes" too.

It’s like saying, “with all due respect,...”. It’s unecessary, unless you’re highlighting the fact that you really want them to say yes. Nobody ever HAS to say yes to your requests. The fact that you make a show of telling them they don’t have to just emphasizes how much you want and expect them to say yes.

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Slowguy

(insert pithy phrase here...)

"For those who are not sincere in the statement it's usually a way to avoiding feeling guilt for pressuring someone into doing something they never wanted to do in the first place. "But I said you didn't have to say yes..." "


That makes sense, now. Sounds like something my mom would have said to manipulate my dad.

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-----------------------------Baron Von Speedypants
-----------------------------RunTraining articles here:
http://forum.slowtwitch.com/...runtraining;#1612485

Trust me when I say "engineering brain," its not a brag or a compliment. Its just that we aren't allowed to use the R word around here.

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-----------------------------Baron Von Speedypants
-----------------------------RunTraining articles here:
http://forum.slowtwitch.com/...runtraining;#1612485

I know what you meant. I just have a creative type of retardation whereas you have an analytical type.

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Civilize the mind, but make savage the body.

- Chinese proverb

Are you someone who lacks follow through or really hates confrontation?

I find myself using this phrase to people who say yes and then never do what they said yes to. Some people are conditioned not to say no even when they mean it.

It often means I would like your help with this but I would much rather come up with a plan B than be depending on you for something you will never deliver.

The only way to get past communication games is to own and speak your truth. (But I value honesty above lack of conflict)

Ha ha I think this is chicken and egg with what I posted. I would use this phrase with someone who says yes and does things resentfully to try to avoid that situation happening again.

ETA isn't your quote the definition of passive aggressive? They said yes when they didn't mean it and then make the other person know they didn't want to do it in the first place. https://www.psychologytoday.com/...aggressive-people-do

I just said this to someone the other day. I really just meant exactly that. I offered them a job opportunity - since I am more senior, I did not want them to feel obligated to take it. It was not a commend, but an opportunity if they were interested.

Gosh, people are so complicated sometimes.

But in the two examples you give, you don't do that.

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It doesn't really matter what Phil is saying, the music of his voice is the appropriate soundtrack for a bicycle race. HTupolev

There is something called the principal of reciprocity. When someone gives us something, we feel like we need to return the favor. There was a study done on tipping at the "Olive Garden" that tested 3 ways of presenting the after dinner mints to customers.
1) Ask if they want them
2) Put them in with the bill
3) Present the bill and followup with, "And here is something for you..." and present the mints to the customer.

I wish I had the data in front of me. Tips went up by like 40% by presenting them that way (#3).

With that in mind: It really depends on how the Asker frames the question:

A. the Asker feels badly about asking and wants to offer an out so they don't feel like they are indebted to the other should they say yes. In my opinion this would most certainly be the case if the question is posed "you don't have to say yes..."
B. the Asker is trying to seek favor by offering empathy. If the question is posed with "I understand if you say no..." the person receiving the request is going to feel a slight indebtedness because the person showed consideration to their feelings.

I don't see it. When I would rather someone say no than a yes that is not actually a yes I say you don't have to say yes to emphasize I am not looking for a yes but a clear direction I can count on.

What are you seeing in my response?

I would much rather get a clear no than a non-commitment yes.

I really would love input. I hate wasting time and I really struggle with people who can't communicate what they want and later get all resentful. They had an out that they didn't take. Yet they are resentful at me - there is a communication gap - to the extent I am even trying to give them additional outs - and they still don't take them and still get annoyed.

Please give me a better way of getting conflict avoidant people to say no if they don't want to do something so I can move on and not deal with their moodiness which IMO should be directed inward at themselves for the lack of a spine. Rather than at me for expecting them to follow up on things they agreed to while offered multiple outs.

I also interpret it is "there will be no hard feelings/I won't hold it against you if you say 'no'" Funny to see other interpretations.

I read your post the same way. I can't recall for sure, but I think H- is a chick. Or at least is playing one in this film... ;) That might explain it.

ETA - I use it the same way. I really do mean you don't have to say yes, because I can understand it's perhaps an onerous task, or will incur some sort of added cost, so here is your 'out' on a platter; if that's too much to bear then I understand and I will seek help elsewhere. And if you accept, I will be very grateful, but also expect you to follow through with picking up the turd and be pissed if you don't, because you didn't take the 'out' when it was offered.

I think this is one of those things that people simply see differently. I sat on a jury during a murder trial. The defendant had some form of physical disability that he may have played up in the trial to garner sympathy. It worked. There were two women who believed most of his testimony that he felt threatened (even though he had a gun and the other guy had nothing) and that he shot in self defense. One had a brother who had a physical disability, the other had a son (I think).

It blew my mind that the two jurors saw the same testimony that the rest of us saw and yet believed the defendant. As a compromise, we agreed to find him guilty on lesser charges though he should be spending a long time in jail.

Ditto.

My partner and my bestie don't get on too well. If we are invited to something together I always immediately follow up with a you don't have to say yes type comment because I know he wouldn't enjoy it. It is a win win for both of us.

You said:



Yet you said:



Wouldn't the honest thing be to say what you mean (bolded above)?

In addition, why are you asking people to help you when they've said yes before and not followed through? If you don't trust their "yes," then you can say, "thanks for saying yes, but before when I asked your help with x, you did not do it, so are you serious now?"

Or better yet, when they let you down previously, have you asked them about it then? What kind of responses did you get? Did you get some sincere apologies? Did you get apologies that you judged insincere?



Ding, ding, ding. You have revealed the problem with whole "you don't have to say yes" thing. Are you concerned about them, or about yourself, in other words is the driver here that you don't like it when people act resentful to you?

I share your unhappiness with resentful helpers -- I've experienced them and even been one sometimes.


But have you ever asked someone about the behavior you consider "resentful"? What do they say? Do they say they are resentful?



Has your current approach worked for you? Do these folks now say no? Does this approach eliminate the moodiness you seek to avoid?

A bigger question to me is this: Is there a better way of identifying true and good friends than asking for help and learning who will be a reliable and cheerful helper?

Lastly, if a person says "yes" and does not do it -- or says yes and does not do it with a good spirit -- that is their failing. Many do this. You cannot fix it and should not let it bother you. All you can do is hope that sometime later they will become people of their word. Meanwhile, when you need help, ask your true friends, the reliable and cheerful helpers. And don't slip up and say, "you don't have to say yes" because they would have every right to be offended.

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It doesn't really matter what Phil is saying, the music of his voice is the appropriate soundtrack for a bicycle race. HTupolev

If you have every right to be offended why?

Is it because it is implying a judgement that you are a flake or passive aggressive that can not be counted on?

So the root of that offense would be shame?

What in your mind is the root of the offense?

Are you someone who lacks follow through or really hates confrontation? No to both of these. Its been a long long time since someone has presented a question like that to me...and i was curious to what you people thought. I immediately thought the “ you don’t have to say yes “ was a red flag and called the person on it . My after thoughts now are that a person saying such a thing is being condescending.

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sometimes

If someone considers me to be an unreliable and cheerless helper, they should not be asking me for help. (I consider myself a reliable and cheerful helper -- not perfect but I work on making my yes mean yes. I carefully consider requests before agreeing to ensure that I am not biting off something I can chew.) Rather than gratitude for past help, who would not be offended when someone says, in effect: you have helped me in the past, but that was not good help, so please help me now but only if you do it better.

I know a few people in the habit of speaking this way. I have helped them repeatedly in the past, reliably and cheerfully in my opinion. If they are implying that I am a flake, passive aggressive, or not to be counted upon, one of the following is true: (a) I have been a reliable cheerful helper in the past and they are being ungrateful for my past assistance or (b) I have not been a reliable cheerful helper in the past and they are social outcasts who cannot find reliable cheerful friends to help them and must come back to me for help.

Why do you go back to unreliable and uncheerful people for help? Has saying "you don't have to say yes" improved their behavior?

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It doesn't really matter what Phil is saying, the music of his voice is the appropriate soundtrack for a bicycle race. HTupolev