I don't understand the concept "if I don't know why, then don't get married". What's wrong with trying to understand the financial implications of any arrangement into which one is considering entering? I am not trying to suggest financial motives are the only reason we're considering it. I'm saying all other things being equal, what are the financial / legal pro's / con's?

I actually came to ST, and yes, the LR at that, b/c I'd hoped to draw on a better source of emotionally distant input. If I'd wanted an emotional point of view, I'd have asked facebook.

(That's not meant to you specifically, I'm just trying to reinforce I want to understand the not-emotional considerations...)

Is the idea that there is no financial upside? Are the financial ones really a downside? e.g. Disproportionately higher taxes?

The sex


Hahahaha

I know you identified these, but, I am going to run down the list:

1. Tax benefits.

2. Ownership/probate. In most states, if you die intestate, the "life partner" gets nothing. If you die with a will, the bequeathing in the will is still subject to challenge by blood relatives. If married, those issues go away. Also, most states are "marital property" states. So, you get joint ownership of all each other's assets (and debts.).

Anyone could challenge the will but the will most likely upheld regardless.

3. Financial transactions. It is much easier to get a home mortgage, auto loan, etc. when you are married and both on the account. Especially when a home mortgage, it is a lot more difficult if you are not legally married.

You can still do all of that regardless of you are married


4. Medical and end-of-life decisions. A spouse is the default decision-maker. Otherwise, the "life partner" has no rights to make decisions. Even if you have a power-of-attorney or a living will, blood relatives have standing to challenge your decisions.

So they can challenge it but the living will wind.

5. Health insurance. Nearly every health insurance plan has a family or "plus one" option for a spouse. Very few allow "life partners" to join the plan.

Can't argue that one.

6. Social security benefits, IRA, pension, other retirement accounts. Surviving spouse gets benefits.

IRA / retirement accounts can be left to
Whomever you want. If you have a spouse they may have to sign off on it. If you don't have a spouse it doesn't matter.

7. Leave benefits under the FMLA. You get up to 12 weeks leave to care for a spouse (or other family member). Does not apply if not married.

With all due respect, this sounds like an emotional response. If a couple feels committed w/o the output of time and money to legally establish the relationship, then the benefits of marriage are what? Not every guy/gal requires a ring on their finger to feel confident someone won't leave them, or that they'll die alone w/o one.

Plus, unless an accident takes out both people at once, most people will die alone. 1st one dies w/ companionship, 2nd one not-so-much.

After reading your post I suggest (strongly) that you stay single.

Or, if you want to fleece the life out of some sucker of a cuckold man, get (and stay) married for 10 years, then take his house, his kids and half his money.

Because with an attitude like yours those are your choices.

For the sake of some poor sap in your future, stay single.

I know you identified these, but, I am going to run down the list:

1. Tax benefits.

2. Ownership/probate. In most states, if you die intestate, the "life partner" gets nothing. If you die with a will, the bequeathing in the will is still subject to challenge by blood relatives. If married, those issues go away. Also, most states are "marital property" states. So, you get joint ownership of all each other's assets (and debts.).

3. Financial transactions. It is much easier to get a home mortgage, auto loan, etc. when you are married and both on the account. Especially when a home mortgage, it is a lot more difficult if you are not legally married.

4. Medical and end-of-life decisions. A spouse is the default decision-maker. Otherwise, the "life partner" has no rights to make decisions. Even if you have a power-of-attorney or a living will, blood relatives have standing to challenge your decisions.

5. Health insurance. Nearly every health insurance plan has a family or "plus one" option for a spouse. Very few allow "life partners" to join the plan.

6. Social security benefits, IRA, pension, other retirement accounts. Surviving spouse gets benefits.

7. Leave benefits under the FMLA. You get up to 12 weeks leave to care for a spouse (or other family member). Does not apply if not married.

An attitude like what - researching something instead of jumping in blind? That notion is really so offensive?

I'm not Mrs. LastName, still just Tsunami.

I don't really see combining bank accounts. Assume we'd still file taxes separately.

When people say with all due respect, it's a passive aggressive way to say fuck you. With all due respect, why don't you or your partner want to get married? What's the objection? What's the nagging concern in the back of one of your minds? You get really defensive when someone hints at those questions, so I asked it outright.

One of you two appears not to want to get married. Great I agree, you shouldn't, just for different reasons. If the only reason you're getting married is JSA's list, don't bother. I could have gotten married and never worked another day of my life, I didn't and the best decision I ever made. When I met my wife I knew I wanted to marry her and not in the conceptual "Gee whiz I'd like to get married some day." One of you two don't seem to have that, which is why I recommend you don't get married. (If you want it strictly in economic terms, getting divorced is expensive, even if you prepackage it with a mediator. Save the money.)

I'm with you here, this idea that only "real marriage" means commitment is bogus. My partner and I are committed to each other and we both expressly reject the idea that the government should have some say in the validity of that.

Can't help with the financial side, other than to say that the wedding industrial complex is a clusterfuck of epic proportions. If you do decide to tie the knot, head dine yo the courthouse and spend your money on a fine payment on a house or 20 shares of Facebook ;)

What I picture is an annoying stream of updating places with my marriage status and continually correcting people that no, I'm not Mrs. LastName, still just Tsunami. (I threw it out there as a joke but no, he won't take my name either, though I think Mr. Tsunami has a ring to it.)

Did I say offensive? No.

I was referring to the general nature of your question more by what was missing than what was there. I’ll let you try and figure out what that is. As for what was there I refer to the following...



If you don’t want to combine names, don’t want to combine bank accounts and don’t want to combine taxes then you don’t want to be a married person...so don’t be a married person.

If you do marry with this attitude (you may be thinking I’m saying “attitude” as a bad thing, like “that bitch has an attitude”, but what I actually mean is just your general outlook on this subject) you will end up divorced.

98% of divorces end up completely fucking over the man in the relationship. That’s not your fault, it’s just how the law treats these things. So do yourself and your man (future man) a huge favor. Don’t get married.

There are no benefits of marriage. It's an outdated social custom that intelligent people should avoid.

That is a really bizarre thing that you picture. It's not like that at all. No one ever bats an eye when newlyweds keep their last names. Folks that I know who basically remained unmarried but together for many, many years eventually found that being not married was a willful ignoring of reality. Their eventual wedding wasn't really a covenant or anything, but a rueful and joyous celebration of their relationship. They found it more exhausting socially and legally to be life partners without being married. JSA has pointed out the various advantages.

Advice: talk to you partner. The communication thing is kind of important. Come to an agreement on this.

It is true I think changing my name amounts to throwing my identity away and being reduced to being only someone else's anonymous Mrs.//

You mean the identity that your father gave you by stealing your mothers? Or are you carrying your mothers maiden name?

Statistically more likely to stay together if married. Don't know if that is because people are happier or because it is more of a hassle to get formally divorced. After you are common law for a few years in most places you may as well be married the cost of breaking up is the same I think

I accept that my outlook is unusual. Thanks for making your points.

I'm not against combining accounts or filing jointly. Mainly just trying to understand the pro's and con's of either approach. Trying to understand what would be different from how it is now.

It is true I think changing my name amounts to throwing my identity away and being reduced to being only someone else's anonymous Mrs. I understand most people don't see it that way. But that pecularity isn't an arguement against the institution of marriage, only my take on one particular custom thereof.

I'm not offended.

When it was last discussed he felt like he didn't measure up. He makes less, he's carrying more debt, has fewer letters after his name. But rather than list those things out, or all the things I find worthwhile about him and how he makes me feel, I figured I'd narrow in on what I wanted to know. Unfortunately some folks seem unable to look at some topics within the desired parameters.

Staying together definitely doesn’t mean happy.

Are the money, debt and education things an issue between you at all?

Things not so great in mooose country?

There is often a tax penalty to being married rather than a break.

The tax system was designed for a high earner/ little to no earner combo.

If you both have similar professional jobs you will probably pay more married.

You will also be more limited in some retirement savings where the max income for a married couple is not 2x that of a single.

This is not true st all in my case.

Marriage has been hugely beneficial to me.

As for Mrs. Duffy, she’s getting screwed :)

I'm not offended.

When it was last discussed he felt like he didn't measure up. He makes less, he's carrying more debt, has fewer letters after his name. But rather than list those things out, or all the things I find worthwhile about him and how he makes me feel, I figured I'd narrow in on what I wanted to know. Unfortunately some folks seem unable to look at some topics within the desired parameters.

Just so you know that's a cop out on his part. He has serious reservations about marrying you. What they are, I don't know, but what you listed are just weak excuses.

I came from a single parent household where the dad crushed the mom in bad credit etc so I will not let my credit go down ie no shared accounts. I don't trust anybody with my money. Maybe I should have stayed single.
....

There is often a tax penalty to being married rather than a break.

The tax system was designed for a high earner/ little to no earner combo.

If you both have similar professional jobs you will probably pay more married.

You will also be more limited in some retirement savings where the max income for a married couple is not 2x that of a single.

I know you identified these, but, I am going to run down the list:

1. Tax benefits.

2. Ownership/probate. In most states, if you die intestate, the "life partner" gets nothing. If you die with a will, the bequeathing in the will is still subject to challenge by blood relatives. If married, those issues go away. Also, most states are "marital property" states. So, you get joint ownership of all each other's assets (and debts.).

3. Financial transactions. It is much easier to get a home mortgage, auto loan, etc. when you are married and both on the account. Especially when a home mortgage, it is a lot more difficult if you are not legally married.

4. Medical and end-of-life decisions. A spouse is the default decision-maker. Otherwise, the "life partner" has no rights to make decisions. Even if you have a power-of-attorney or a living will, blood relatives have standing to challenge your decisions.

5. Health insurance. Nearly every health insurance plan has a family or "plus one" option for a spouse. Very few allow "life partners" to join the plan.

6. Social security benefits, IRA, pension, other retirement accounts. Surviving spouse gets benefits.

7. Leave benefits under the FMLA. You get up to 12 weeks leave to care for a spouse (or other family member). Does not apply if not married.

I didn't like my family dynamics growing up either. My take was I'd aim to be self reliant in every way possible, and yes, giving someone else access to my accounts seems a super scary idea. I really don't have a reason to feel like that, with my boyfriend. It's just a long-held issue that I aspired to never be financially stuck in a relationship the way I felt my parents were.