Very cool, thanks for the reminder that this swim is going on today.

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"Anyone can be who they want to be IF they have the HUNGER and the DRIVE."

Oh wow..... this will be interesting. Lucy Charles for the win?

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blog

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Sylvan Smyth | http://www.sportstats.asia | sylvan@sportstats.asia | Starvas

Wiltshire 48:44, Sanders 52:38 - look out next week.

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Sylvan Smyth | http://www.sportstats.asia | sylvan@sportstats.asia | Starvas

Close race! Harry Wiltshire wins by 0.1! Lucy Charles was 3 seconds back

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blog

I would second that. Tim Don is strong too and may need to draft her to try for the win if he can outsprint!

OK i missed this....this puts an entirely different spin on the Sanders Threads!!!

And Lionel swims 52:37. Right behind Kyle Buckingham and Matt Hanson.

The course is the same course as the IM course right?

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Same start, same course, but finishes on the other side of the pier. Might be a few metres longer if anything.

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Sylvan Smyth | http://www.sportstats.asia | sylvan@sportstats.asia | Starvas

I am really impressed with this swim time. After watching his stroke in the videos that were posted the other day, I never would have thought that stroke could swim 52 min. Still..... he's got even more room to improve on the swim if he can swim that fast with that poor of a stroke.

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I think last year I was 56:high with no swim skin. I was in solid swim shape this time last year (compared to now). 52 is pretty awesome.

After watching his stroke in the videos that were posted the other day, I never would have thought that stroke could swim 52 min. Still.....//

Before everyone gets too excited, remember this swim is 3 minutes or so shorter than the course we are used to comparing times to, and the finish inside the pier makes it shorter than the race day swim. And of course this is a flat out effort for Lionel, he will certainly not be able to swim this hard on race day, unlike the uber fish who can sustain an even faster pace with more people up front to draft off of and set a faster overall pace.


But this is where I said he would be at the best, along with Keinle about 4 minutes behind the leaders. This swim probably translates to 5 or 6 minutes behind because of all the things I just mentioned, but well within cobra striking distance of the leaders by the turnaround..

+2 (been impressed)

My only question and Lionel knows the answer how hard did he swam today... Is it a Pace that he can repeat next weekend without taking too much out of him...

Just remembering Sebi swim 2015... and how much energy it took from him. He did appear very energic on the bike and run.

Damn, nice time by Lucy. Someone said in the prediction thread that "if she's smart she'll find feet and save energy for the bike" but looking at the 2015 results... wouldn't the smart thing be for her to go for another 4 minute advantage starting the bike? I imagine she could even 'go easy' and still outswim all other pro females by 3 minutes. I'm no expert on swim drafting but I imagine that is faster enough that anyone trying to draft off her would end up overcooking themselves?

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808 > NYC > PDX > YVR
2024 Races: Taupo

Lucy will have Lauren Brandon to swim with. The question will be, how many men will swim faster than those two.

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So you personally know how hard Lionel swam?....interesting

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David T-D
http://www.tilburydavis.com

my question will be how quickly they catch up to Lionel :)

I should have checked the start list, had no idea Lauren was doing Kona. Exciting for the swim! they'll surely catch the last pack of males

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808 > NYC > PDX > YVR
2024 Races: Taupo

So you personally know how hard Lionel swam?....interesting //

Of course I do, is this confusing to you? Now we are talking about a guy that races most every workout, so in an actual "RACE" you think it is possible he sandbagged? Maybe to psych out the competition by going slow? Guaranteed he got on the fastest feet he could and drilled it to the finish. All the times in front of him including his, his history, and knowing what he is trying to accomplish points to him drilling the swim as hard as he could..


I find it interesting that anyone would think otherwise?

In case you didn't know already, you are conversing with Lionel's coach.

haha oh man monty. this one is up there in terms of dumb responses.

This is the new swim course set last year for both the practice swim and race day. So any time comparisons to last year are valid.

In case you didn't know already, you are conversing with Lionel's coach. //

I know exactly who it is and what he is trying to do, do you??


And to prove my point, anyone willing to bet that Lionel is farther back from the leader on race day??

This is the new swim course set last year for both the practice swim and race day. So any time comparisons to last year are valid. //

I agree, it is just that most people are still working off of what a 52 used to represent and have not factored in the new shorter course. So it is legit to look at Keinles time last year in the race and Lionel swim here, of course conditions play a factor but not as much as actually physically shortening the course..

I really don't think that was the point.

Here's a question for you: do you think the male leader out of the water will be below 48 on race day? Realistically, what do you think Amberger towing Frodo could look like, time-wise? If Lionel is out of the water withing 5-6 minutes of the male LEADER that's a pretty fucking huge win for him. THAT is the point of remarking on his swim time.

One point of reference is how Lionel did relative to others last year. My quick check shows he was 2+ mins behind Matt Russell and Michael Weiss at Kona last year. However, today he was at least a min ahead of them. Not bad.

Probably goes to prove a few points - he's improved his swim considerably but also was indeed going hard today. Of course, none of it matters till next Saturday.

Lol. As I stated, I simply provided the info for context. I could care less about your theories.

Lol. As I stated, I simply provided the info for context. I could care less about your theories. //

Ok, I guess. And they are not theories, just comments on observations.

Probably goes to prove a few points - he's improved his swim considerably but also was indeed going hard today. Of course, none of it matters till next Saturday.//

Agreed, dude has improved quicker and faster than I can ever remember any pro of his starting ability. His coach should be proud, and hopefully he executes all this progress this Saturday. I find it funny that many on the thread have gotten so defensive about my comments and think somehow I'm bagging on the guy. I'm totally on the Lionel bandwagon and wish him to do well in the race. What I don't and have never done is to try and blow smoke about things that are known and apparent.


I was waiting for this swim to be over before I did my top 5 kona picks, I feel I am very close now....(-;

Talked to a few athletes and anecdotally it was a bit rougher out there than in recent years.

Any opinions or anecdotes from your athletes?

Cheers,

Some good observations made first hand of some folks take out speed and subsequent pacing, all good homework done for next weekend.

As some folks said the time is less telling the % delta more relevant.

Regards

David

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David T-D
http://www.tilburydavis.com

Love your response to armchair quarterback 😂

Nice to see Sanders and Hanson have great swims.

Seriously? I can't believe I read this response towards Lionel's coach, and even worse, coming from you.

Seriously? I can't believe I read this response towards Lionel's coach, and even worse, coming from you. //

Well he started it.. (-;

Yeah, but in this case it sound like Monty either knows Lionel's profile better than his coach, or the coach does not know his athlete. Seriously David, you think that Lionel is going to show up at a swim race and sandbag a 3.8K swim to play mind games with others. I think Monty understands the profile of a professional triathlete better than you do. I know you talk with them and coach them, but Monty lived that life in the mix with others and knows a good deal about how most of these guys think. I realize you will tell us to go away and you know what his strategy was, but there is no way he is getting inside of 4 minutes of Wiltshire, when Wiltshire himself has to gun it to not get chick'd. I think Monty is bang on that Lionel did this swim as fast as he can on this day.

I think Lionel's coach/advisor was being snarky in his response to Monty. Firstly he could have declared who he was (relationship wise since he posts infrequently enough around here for not everyone to know who he is) rather than some codewords implying he knew better than Monty. Secondly I think Monty nailed it better than the coach. No way Lionel was sandbagging and ends up 4 min behind Wiltshire. Look what Monty wrote in his analysis and i bet you he nails it for race day. I hope he is wrong and the delta to Frodo is 3:xx....keep in mind on race day, you have Amberger, Potts, Frodo and Wiltshire all doing a formula 1 race pack with each other. Josh is not going to sandbag this swim and I expect he will pull these guys along faster for a while. Or he will gun it and drop them. Lionel should hope that Josh just drops them and not pull them along.

Dev,

First few comments are off side and out of character for you. IMO...basically personal attack on DTD. Just my opinion.

Check out LS results the past year and in terms of relevance to next weekend his results this am.

Read between the lines of DTD's post above and I (won't speak for him) but I interpret that to mean that today's work out was focused as much on tactics/technical execution as effort.

Re take out speed and settling in, I am guessing LS has been quietly working on the first 100-400m in order to get a better set of feet than years past.

Anyways like Monty said, not theories just comments and opinions.

Basically only on st does a guy who was previously a shitty swimmer go 52 (he surprised most of us) and we still find the time to criticize the coach who got him there.

2c,

It was choppy out there today but not too bad. It was difficult coming back in mainly because there were no buoys set up so you had to just swim between the volunteers or site of something on the beach

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Team Every Man Jack

Bottom line on all of this... Jan Frodeno may be at risk of streaking his pants when he sees the swim time. Russell is a vastly better swimmer this year IMHO from racing him numerous times. Lionel lead the 2nd pack at Arizona last year albeit that was a wetsuit swim. Hanson pretty much made the front back of the IMTX swim this past spring in what I consider the swim of the year by a non-swimmer.

This all means IMHO that Lionel has a very good chance of making second packs as they happen in past races. I do think Josh A adds a wildcard to this race and may create an additional pack, alas Frodeno, Potts, and McNiece one year. Regardless I think that just helps Lionel as that small front pack is simply going to make the second pack slower and then the delta between 2nd and 3rd smaller. There may even just be one large second back as a result.

Either way, Lionel is quickly improving his chances of a potential podium IMHO.

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LOL

All good. Let’s just say today wasn’t nor was meant to be a ‘going to the well’, as Maurice said ‘tactics/execution’.

We’ll all really see exactly where Lionel’s swim fitness is in relative terms in 6 days.

Best,

David

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David T-D
http://www.tilburydavis.com

Hey just to be clear, David could have just said, "I am Lionel's coach, so you may not have the full picture on what he was doing". Personally I think Monty nailed it. The coach is as much in Lionel's body and brain during today's swim as an ex pro like Monty is....so maybe Monty has a better perspective. I do feel that Monty's analysis was close to bang on. You don't have to read between the lines of Monty's post, you just have to read them. David's post was cryptic and unclear to anyone without context of his relationship wtih Lionel. He's not the first coach on here who comes on with the "I know more than you" angle which in some cases may be true, in other cases, it might be incorrect. He could have just responded with, "Lionel and I spoke and we decided on a tactic of xyz that was not a flat out 3.8K swim".

BUT either Wiltshire is sandbagging while Lionel was sandbagging or they were both racing hard for the gap to be sub 4 minutes. So if I have to read between the lines, I'm not buying that Lionel was going anything but as fast as he could go combining pacing and tactics for today's race. I THINK this is what Monty was getting at but maybe Monty can qualify that.

Just to add, whether it is a discussion between engineers, between math guys, between physiologists, between whatever....the "I know something more than you, or I am smarter than you angle" just never really results in anything productive and it is why I responded to David they way I did. Just be clear, don't talk code words, don't make people read between the lines. It can be interpreted too many diverse ways especially if you don't have context. He was talking down to Monty. Not cool in my book. I think Monty's has pretty well the earned the global analysis guru title on anything to do with Kona swim splits and tactics. David is only a newbie in this domain.

We know the times, but that's it. We don't know the circumstances for Lionel's or Harry's times. Was Lionel sitting in a big group the whole time? Did he Lead a group? What happened? Same for Harry. If Lionel sat in the whole time, I don't think he necessarily redlined. His problem previously was the all out speed at the start, where he'd end up swimming on his own the whole time. That could be way more taxing than if he has better high end speed now and was able to make a group and sit in.

“Newbie”

LOL

Chill out dude, mahalo.

D.

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David T-D
http://www.tilburydavis.com

All good. Let’s just say today wasn’t nor was meant to be a ‘going to the well’, as Maurice said ‘tactics/execution’.

We’ll all really see exactly where Lionel’s swim fitness is in relative terms in 6 days. //

No worries mate, all good and fun. This is how we all get pumped up for the big day!! I'm guessing your are like me in that this is the single biggest sporting day of the year to watch. You obviously have a little more skin in the game(well I used to), so perhaps you are even more excited than me, but I doubt it..(-;


Anyway I put up my top 5 on the prediction thread, check it out...

i should read context first, oops

Hey David, we're all newbies compared to Monty. You should get advice from him. Seriously you can't know everything. This is why doctors refer their patients to specialists. Consider the free benefits he can provide you. I appreciate you have data from multiple athletes. Monty has a different data set you can benefit from.

2004 ST login vs Monty living the Kona swim lead pack with Rob Mackle and Wolfgang Dietrich all through the 80's and early 90's and then him following every Kona swim, conditions, tactics, players since. As I said, it's hard to beat Monty's database on the Kona swim leg! That was basically his A event as a pro and now as a follower!

yep you're right I thought you were calling him a newbie to the forum discussions, that's why i edited

Thanks for the feedback....in spite of being Canadian and an LS fan, I am 10x more concerned about athletes and friends in the 1:10-1:25 area.

Ie not so much take out speed etc but general conditions.

One comment I heard was "worse over the past 3 -4 years" including race day.

Anyways, best of luck for yours, mine, LS and every one else.

Cheers,

We know the times, but that's it. We don't know the circumstances for Lionel's or Harry's times. //

Correct, but we have the finish times and places of everyone, and their MO's on how they swim. Not having seen the swim I bet Harry sat on most of the time letting about 3 others do the pulling and then sprinted for the win. It is his MO, he doesn't care about time, he wants to win the race so plays it like a sprinter on a big flat stage. Pull the last 200 where it counts.


It looks like Lionel was in a group of about a dozen or so, probably not pulling any groups. Towards the end of these swims the pace gets hot for the places and it looks like he got shuttled the back end of that group, beating a couple guys. It could have been two distinct groups, but probably not having only been separated by about a half minute at the end. And that would make sense, Lionel is now swimming with real swimmers and as good as he has gotten, when the afterburners come on the old swimmers usually have an advantage.


And of course we have Lionel's coach telling us he did not go into the well, and I actually believe that for the last part of the swim where it is a drag race for places. But I think he worked hard to be and stay in that group for the rest of the swim.


It would be fun for someone that could actually see the whole race, maybe someone on a lead boat come on and fill in the gaps..

Either way, Lionel is quickly improving his chances of a potential podium IMHO.


Agreed with this.

If you step back from it all this is a substantial improvement for Lionel. It bodes well for Race Day next weekend.

I'm no swim expert, but the videos, show, that his stroke still needs a fair amount of work.

What I like about Lionel, and I sense is an attraction to many, is just about everything he does is unorthodox! Sure the swim stroke is not perfect, but the bike position, the pedaling style and the running form, are all not perfect either. It's all a little rough. But it's all getting worked on and refined, and as the fitness and the techniques all improve he get's faster and faster. He's already gone way further and way faster than any other late-onset-triathlete has done. Good grief - last year he set the IRONMAN, "world record"!

I don't know if he can win, next Saturday - this is going to be a very interesting and competitive race as it always is - but I think he will be factor in the final outcome. If he's close at the end of the bike, watch out!

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Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog

Conspiracy theory : How about the full show to date is a huge mind game including the YouTube vids ? Let's be honest, he and David knew you lot were going to scrutinise the shit out of them ... lol

Anyone close enough to see his stoke / style from the swim he's just done and prepared to report / comment on it ?

WD :-)

For your own development, the saying is actually "I couldn't care less." If you say "I could less," you're really not saying much.

I'd say first show that you can challenge the top 5 and then start playing "mind games". I don't remember Hoffman or Lange or TO playing any mind games... they just showed up on race morning and kicked ass.

why can't there be a proper in water finish

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___________________________________________
http://en.wikipedia.org/...eoesophageal_fistula
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2020 National Masters Champion - M40-44 - 400m IM
Canadian Record Holder 35-39M & 40-44M - 200 m Butterfly (LCM)

Man, that guy with his hand on the "S" has humongous arms!!! He must have like a 7' (84") wingspan, or maybe even more. His arm looks like a leg, not an arm!!!

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"Anyone can be who they want to be IF they have the HUNGER and the DRIVE."

There can be but there won’t be. Do you think there should be for the Ho’ala practice swim?

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Sylvan Smyth | http://www.sportstats.asia | sylvan@sportstats.asia | Starvas

Lucy will also have Haley Chura to swim with.

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Ed O'Malley
www.VeloVetta.com
Founder of VeloVetta Cycling Shoes
Instagram • Facebook

Lucy, Lauren, and Haley: a trio of really fast women who could potentially catch Lionel and Sebi. :)

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"Anyone can be who they want to be IF they have the HUNGER and the DRIVE."

Anyone else notice 4th place in that video get pissed off at 5th and he splashes him in the face with a few choice words? Wonder what the backstory is there??

What is the point of the pros doing this race? LS has just broadcasted his swim ability and his competition has likely taken notice. Wouldn't it be smarter for him to save it for race day and let everyone underestimate his swim?

What is the point of the pros doing this race? LS has just broadcasted his swim ability and his competition has likely taken notice.//

No kidding, Frodo is probably at the Kona pool right now doing 100's on the minute to get some more time in the bank. Check out Lionels last couple races, the cat was out of the bag already. This is not a broadcast to others, it was for him to be confident in what he believed he could swim, and a super great practice session that cannot be duplicated anywhere else in any manner or form.

As Monty said the cat was a bit out of the bag at ITU. Also good timing, a fun event which still has a bit of a grass roots feel compared to the rest of Kona on race week.

Also as his coach indicated home work for next week.

Maurice

How many 100s on the minute do you think Frodo could do in a scy pool??? Leaving every 60 sec does not allow much rest so I would think Frodo might max out at 10-15, just guessing though. What kind of time do you think he could do for a 1650 when rested and swimming in a Masters meet??? What about Amberger??? Would either be able to break 16:30???

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"Anyone can be who they want to be IF they have the HUNGER and the DRIVE."

I heard Frodo gave Finman a call to see if he can leave some "dead fish" hidden under a corral near the peer to make a bigger gap on Lionel

Frankly broadcasting it might just work in his favor but it is impossible to tell. Regardless, real OWS swim start practice is very hard to come by. As a none swimmer, and someone who hasn't raced much in the last 5 months the experience is very valuable. Frankly I am surprised there were not more pros.

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They are all on the phone queue with Finman in the lineup behind Frodo to get their trademarked Finman "2017 signature edition deadfish" to maximize the gap to Lionel next Saturday. Finman is retiring on the revenue from this. Major spike in sales after the Ho'ala swim.

How many 100s on the minute do you think Frodo could do in a scy pool???//

First of all I hope you know that was in pink... But to your question, I think probably like you said, maybe 10 or a few more, but not many. He could most definitely break 16;30 for a 16;50 but not by too much there either. So if you factor in that by doing intervals costs you a few seconds each 100 to stop and look at the clock and then go again, then 10 would be a very tough set for him..

Fixed it for you:
Lucy, Lauren, and Haley: a trio of really fast women WILL catch Lionel and Sebi. :)

The gap is only 5mins this year, for some reason I thought it was more in years past, maybe I am wrong. Either way, I would put money that all 3 of those girls could catch those 2 on their own, they don't need each other to do it. The real race for those 3 Women is the race for a swim prime/bonus payment from their sponsors.

Of note, and haven't seen it posted on here yet, Lucy Charles appears to not be wearing HUUB anymore. Pics from the Saturday swim had her in TYR, but haven't seen any official announcements and didn't see a TYR logo on her race kit from IM/WTC media shoot, so maybe there won't be an incentive for her to be first out of the water if she doesn't have a sponsor lined up and signed by Saturday? Would assume LB has a bonus for first out of the water, and same with Haley, so the race will definitely be heated for first out of the water between those 3 Women. And nothing against the three of them, but odds are that is the best way for them to make a pay day on Saturday, the swim bonus. I do think that on a perfect day each of them could sneak into the Top10.

Just my Arm Chair QB analysis of this situation.

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-Brad Williams
Website | Twitter: @BW_Tri |Instagram: @BW_Tri | Strava | Co-Founder & Coach at: KIS Coaching
Partnered with: Zoot Sports | Precision Fuel &Hydration | ISM

I vote "no" on the catch. 5 minutes?

Different days in Chatt, but Lauren outswam Sebi by 3mins. If it is "tough" conditions at Kona, then I think definitely the catch will be made. Even in "normal" conditions I still think it will happen. They will at least catch one of them, maybe not both? ;) Like I said, just Arm Chair QB'ing here ;)

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-Brad Williams
Website | Twitter: @BW_Tri |Instagram: @BW_Tri | Strava | Co-Founder & Coach at: KIS Coaching
Partnered with: Zoot Sports | Precision Fuel &Hydration | ISM

I know, just casting my vote on permanent record.

I think the women actually had a tougher/slower swim than the men at 70.3WC.

Oh yeah, definitely was. Meyer (4th) swam over the Frenchmen (5th) with ~100M to go, but it really was caused by Gemmel (winner) making a space for himself that wasn't there. The last 100M totally awesome to watch. Gemmel won because the other 4 got tangled up. He actually isn't known for having a great sprint at the end (obviously mean that on a relative basis).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ft5XJsqUtQ

If it indeed is just 5 minutes then it will be really close, I'm going to say a very cautious yes, I'll bet a dollar. But for sure a lot of men are going to get caught, and maybe that 3rd group that will come out in high 52/53 where those two will probably come out in.

Lead men should be 47+, figure lead group will be like last year with a huge pack in the 48's. Those ladies should also be in the 48's, they won't have the benefit of being able to use the really fast mens speed this time around..

His "adviser". Lionel doesn't have a coach...still.

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"It's good enough for who it's for" - Grandpa Wayne

Brad,

I know you are pro, so much more qualified than me to make race predictions, but I'm surprised at the statement above. Many people have Charles on the podium but you think she "could sneak into the Top10"

japarker24

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Pink? Maybe. Maybe not. You decide.

Interesting...I kinda echo other posters though in thinking Lucy should make at least top 5, if not top 3. In another year or 2, she should be able to de-throne Daniella by simply taking a 4-5 min lead on the swim and then biking and running fast enough such that Ryf can not catch her. We'll see...

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"Anyone can be who they want to be IF they have the HUNGER and the DRIVE."

Thanks Monty, glad to know my estimates jive pretty well with yours, you being our resident retired pro expert. :)

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"Anyone can be who they want to be IF they have the HUNGER and the DRIVE."

One thing to remember is that Lucy is at a disadvantage to some extent. The pack not only helps the people in the back but it also helps the front person to. Thorsten just posted a swim analysis including practice swims and race swims: https://www.trirating.com/...the-2017-hoala-swim/

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TG - Very interesting, thanks for the link. I've heard of "trirating" before but never really looked into it. Lots of interesting data and info there!!!

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"Anyone can be who they want to be IF they have the HUNGER and the DRIVE."

Thanks for posting,

The data points where all 4 are present are interesting.

Cheers,

You are welcome. I kept thinking during this thread someone would do it, and then I thought about doing it when nobody did it, and then boom, I saw it on Trirating. I love when that happens.

On the topic what I think is interesting is you can draw a line down the middle where above it, the racers go faster on race day, and below it the racers go slower on race day. This is easy to explain as on the practice swim it is probably some what more chill for one than the pro start, but two, there are more gap fillers from the amatuers who some of the pros can hang onto during the practice swim but the feet wouldn't be there on race day because the feet fought to stay with the next pack ahead of that swimmer if that makes sense at all.

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Yeah,

AG vs pro....interesting, I googled "Mike Thoren"

Previous continental cup and ETU guy when he was 20 or so now racing AG.

Apparently..photo finish on the run up the beach vs HW.

Cheers,

i
Indeed. See Kaisa Sali's video, finish at about 0:35. Wiltshire really wanted the win.
https://www.facebook.com/...os/1720357894672546/

Lol,

Did wiltshire bump an Ag athlete for the win???

Or other way around, can't tell who is who.

Maurice

Mike Thoren on the left...(since you asked)

Yes, yes he did.

Which makes me think:

How hard was the front group going?

I know monty said that Harry likes to chill and sit on people's hips/feet and basically try and out sprint them in the last few meters. Was that Thoren's plan too? In the video posted above, Thoren looks like he's having fun, and Harry is trying very hars to get the Win in that run up to the finish line.

Just looking at Thoren's credentials, could we say the pace up front was hot? Does this put Lionel's swim into better perspective? Even if we assume he was going harder than he will go on race day, that's still a great swim, being only 4 minutes back to someone like Thoren, no?

It's not like Wiltshire has a sterling reputation. There's the whole ITU thing from several years ago and I've got a vague recollection that Frodo was upset with him at the end of the Kona swim last year.

Did we ever get to the bottom of the beef with Frodo last year? Alot of folk were animated, seemingly on both sides, but no details were forthcoming. Anyone??

Re the video - when I exit a sea swim, I'm pretty drunk for the first few steps - and that's just cruising in. Can't imagine an all out sprint, so I give him benefit of doubt on that one

If he can run a controlled sprint out of the water he can avoid body slamming someone who exited the water 15-20 feet away. HW is definitely a weirdo.

Fair point.

I was going to say, it's amazing what Wiltshire can swim, when he's not busy trying to drown Javier Gomez... He's one of the few athletes that legit has necessitated their own rule in the ITU rulebook (new midway through the season this year, on swim interference)...

Harry swam with the team last year for about 5 weeks before Kona. He would have been hard pressed to make anything like that set of 10x100. On 1:05/100 not problem, 1:00/100 would have been a totally different story.

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+1

however in this case I am certain that DTD is playing the gamesmanship hand and as such gets a certain amount of latitude..

Very interesting, thanks for your first hand report. So what would he go for the 200, 500, and 1650, rested and in a Masters meet???

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"Anyone can be who they want to be IF they have the HUNGER and the DRIVE."

 
I have it on very good authority that she got fed up that Huub were not paying their bills and so finally got out of the contract with them as she now has Management and Lawyers. Happened with other Athletes as well allegedly. So looks like she is with TYR now but we saw her trying a ROKA and XTerra swim skin out at the pool so must mean she is using Kona to try out her options. Wonder if she will be getting paid by whomever she uses? Quick deal done mayv?? At the expo she was asked about Huub and she just said "I don't have a swim sponsor" so no doubt plenty will be calling her.

I think she will be TOP 10 overall and her future will be the podium. On,y 24 and first race as a pro. She really struggled on the Frankfurt run and Crowley beat her easily in the end. So maybe Sime more maturing for her but looks like another great British talent coming through. I think 2ndcand 3rd will be between Crowley and Jackson but would love to see Rachel Joyce thereof. Go for it new Mums!!!![/reply]

I believe Chura's already maxed out her sponsor FOTW bonuses this year. I'd expect her to go for a more balanced race, but she should still be swimming with the front pack.

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Ed O'Malley
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I don't think being a pro makes me more qualified to make race predictions by any means.

The reason I think a "sneak into the Top10" is due to her age and lack of "big races". Yes, she won the Challenge Half "Champs" and had a good race at Frankfurt, but she is 24 years young and this is her first time racing in the pro field in Kona. The lack of experience and her youth is the biggest reason I would say "sneaking" into the top10.

And I think her in the Top 10 is a great day for her, based on some of her interviews seems she is aiming for a Top 3-5, good on her, but just seems a bit arrogant in my opinion, but some may call it confidence. No doubt she has the talent to be a podium / champion contender in Kona, I just don't think her first year will be the year that it happens. But, today is the day she can prove me wrong, then again who am I? Like I said, just an Arm Chair QB ;)

My picks for the day:

Women:
1. Ryf
2. Jackson
3. Crowley
4. Sali
5. Lester (Joyce / McCauley / Piampiano are on my top 5 "bubble")

Men
1. TO (obviously I am biased here, but I really do think he can win it. Working with Greg Bennet on his run, and having a new baby has him motivated more than ever. And the Dad "boost" is a real thing ;) )
2. Lange
3. Frodeno
4. Hoffman
5. Sanders (Cunnama / Reed / McNamee / Kastelein are on my top 5 "bubble")

I mean this is Kona, anything can happen. Those "on the bubble" athletes I feel can definitely be in the Top5, it is really hard to only pick 5 athletes.

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-Brad Williams
Website | Twitter: @BW_Tri |Instagram: @BW_Tri | Strava | Co-Founder & Coach at: KIS Coaching
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Interesting......Here is my take on it. From my observation it seems that HUUB had been behind her from the early days. It wouldn't surprise me on payments being late, not because it's HUUB, but because it isn't uncommon in our sport. If I was in a similar situation, I would probably get fed up as well, but loyalty to sponsors speaks volumes, and jumping shit rather than trying to come to a resolution just seems a bit odd. Maybe she/her team thinks grass is greener on the other side and used it as a way to get out of her contract.

I just find it hard to see HUUB "not paying" their bills, I mean they have some of the biggest names in the sport, and some of the fastest swimmers. I just don't see those "other" sponsored athletes sticking around if HUUB isn't paying.

See my comments above in regards to my thoughts on her race today and in the future of Kona.

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-Brad Williams
Website | Twitter: @BW_Tri |Instagram: @BW_Tri | Strava | Co-Founder & Coach at: KIS Coaching
Partnered with: Zoot Sports | Precision Fuel &Hydration | ISM

Looks like Lucy Charles did not race in TYR after all but Roka? I would suggest as a pro if you keep chasing after a sponsor to pay and they continue to not pay then you have to look elsewhere. Loyalty to a sponsor that does not pay their bills even with repeated follow ups that apparently went in for months, means paying your rent becomes pretty difficult. Though after her race today I would suggest that paying her rent will not be a problem in the near future. A

Amazing day out there doe so many Athletes with some big surprises apart from Rym is just at another level. So calm and controlled even when things were going wrong early. What a champion!

WTF?

Take that were it belongs. I am sure Ms Charles wouldn't approve that dirty laundry aired with her fine performance.

Everybody knows that Neo-Pros get screwed all the time by their Sponsors.

Not helpful.

I was actually trying to defend her position. If her former sponsor continued to owe her money and treat her poorly over a long period then it is appropriate for her to leave and go elsewhere. Personally I think if she in fact was Swimming unsponsored as a stance of integrity (surely most if not all would want her on their books) then more power to her.
I hope she gets all the rewards for a tremendous performance.