Which one of us has the best bike position for either 70.3 or 140.6. narrowing it down to those two should help eliminate the TT guys.
Triathlon Forum
Login required to started new threads
Login required to post replies
Re: What slowtwitcher has the best long course bike position [Fishbum]
[ In reply to ]
Me. :P
Re: What slowtwitcher has the best long course bike position [Fishbum]
[ In reply to ]
I'll play, because I'm super modest and humble.
I race 70.3 - no plans of doing a full, so my position is tolerable for 56 miles.
Pic taken at St. George, on a climb (notice the small gear combo)
Alex Arman
Strava
I race 70.3 - no plans of doing a full, so my position is tolerable for 56 miles.
Pic taken at St. George, on a climb (notice the small gear combo)
Alex Arman
Strava
Last edited by:
doublea334: Aug 9, 17 12:44
Re: What slowtwitcher has the best long course bike position [doublea334]
[ In reply to ]
No picture?
Re: What slowtwitcher has the best long course bike position [Fishbum]
[ In reply to ]
Re: What slowtwitcher has the best long course bike position [Fishbum]
[ In reply to ]
Fishbum wrote:
No picture?TinyPic is throwing a fit at me. I withdraw from the competition.
Edit: Fixed.... Internet is hard...
Alex Arman
Strava
Last edited by:
doublea334: Aug 9, 17 12:44
Re: What slowtwitcher has the best long course bike position [LAI]
[ In reply to ]
Re: What slowtwitcher has the best long course bike position [Fishbum]
[ In reply to ]
OP needs to post his position to establish a baseline.
Re: What slowtwitcher has the best long course bike position [Fishbum]
[ In reply to ]
Re: What slowtwitcher has the best long course bike position [walie]
[ In reply to ]
My position sucks I'm trying to find which one of you guys to try and emulate. LOL
I will try and post mine tonight when I get home from work though
Edit. Ridenfish seems to think I have a pretty decent short course and TT position however it is not sustainable for me for long course
I will try and post mine tonight when I get home from work though
Edit. Ridenfish seems to think I have a pretty decent short course and TT position however it is not sustainable for me for long course
Re: What slowtwitcher has the best long course bike position [Fishbum]
[ In reply to ]
Re: What slowtwitcher has the best long course bike position [Grill]
[ In reply to ]
Grill wrote:
Me. :PHa! I was going to say Grill. You beat me to it.
Re: What slowtwitcher has the best long course bike position [Fishbum]
[ In reply to ]
I vote for BBLOEHR. I'm sure he'll throw up a pic.
I'll throw mine up because it's pretty good too, but haven't been to wind tunnel or track. And this thread would be awesome if everyone put a pic up.
I'll throw mine up because it's pretty good too, but haven't been to wind tunnel or track. And this thread would be awesome if everyone put a pic up.
Re: What slowtwitcher has the best long course bike position [Sean H]
[ In reply to ]
Nice. What stem length is that?
Re: What slowtwitcher has the best long course bike position [Fishbum]
[ In reply to ]
Last time I did steelhead I stayed aero an impressively long time. Came out a few times for random things and stand for blood flow.
_________________________________
The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design.
_________________________________
The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design.
Re: What slowtwitcher has the best long course bike position [Fishbum]
[ In reply to ]
Re: What slowtwitcher has the best long course bike position [doublea334]
[ In reply to ]
doublea334 wrote:
I'll play, because I'm super modest and humble. I race 70.3 - no plans of doing a full, so my position is tolerable for 56 miles.
Pic taken at St. George, on a climb (notice the small gear combo)
Awesome position! And it showed in your bike split at Boulder, well done! (just followed you on strava)
Re: What slowtwitcher has the best long course bike position [Fishbum]
[ In reply to ]
Fishbum wrote:
Which one of us has the best bike position for either 70.3 or 140.6. narrowing it down to those two should help eliminate the TT guys.Definitely not me
Save: $50 on Speed Hound Recovery Boots | $20 on Air Relax| $100 on Normatec| 15% on Most Absorbable Magnesium
Blogs: Best CHEAP Zwift / Bike Trainer Desk | Theragun G3 vs $140 Bivi Percussive Massager | Normatec Pulse 2.0 vs Normatec Pulse | Speed Hound vs Normatec | Air Relax vs Normatec | Q1 2018 Blood Test Results | | Why HED JET+ Is The BEST value wheelset
Re: What slowtwitcher has the best long course bike position [Dilbert]
[ In reply to ]
" Only 8 inches of drop seat to pads."
--------------------------
Do you mean cm . . . 8 inches is quite a big drop.
David
* Ironman for Life! (Blog) * IM Everyday Hero Video * Daggett Shuler Law *
Disclaimer: I have personal and professional relationships with many athletes, vendors, and organizations in the triathlon world.
--------------------------
Do you mean cm . . . 8 inches is quite a big drop.
David
* Ironman for Life! (Blog) * IM Everyday Hero Video * Daggett Shuler Law *
Disclaimer: I have personal and professional relationships with many athletes, vendors, and organizations in the triathlon world.
Re: What slowtwitcher has the best long course bike position [Dilbert]
[ In reply to ]
Quote:
Not me. I have more neck problems than a 40 year old football player. Only 8 inches of drop seat to pads. I'm a parachute.Why do you feel you need > 8 inches of drop from seat to pads to be more aero? You can see both LAI's (http://forum.slowtwitch.com/...ost=6387571#p6387571) and my position (http://forum.slowtwitch.com/...ost=6387806#p6387806) in the Bike Fit exercise thread and both of us are < 8 inches of drop from seat to pads.
Re: What slowtwitcher has the best long course bike position [geauxTT]
[ In reply to ]
While 8 inches is extreme (and probably incorrectly stated anyway) - you understand that drop is predicated on morphology right?
"One Line Robert"
"One Line Robert"
Re: What slowtwitcher has the best long course bike position [Grill]
[ In reply to ]
Grill wrote:
Me. :PI thought the thread title was "best long course bike position"?
"One Line Robert"
Re: What slowtwitcher has the best long course bike position [doublea334]
[ In reply to ]
Sweet.
Re: What slowtwitcher has the best long course bike position [Sean H]
[ In reply to ]
"And this thread would be awesome if everyone put a pic up. "
----------------------------------------
I'm embarrassed after looking at yours! You must be younger and never get a neck irritation. I with some degree of regularity have the fastest bike split in my age group, but I feel like a sail after seeing you AND how do you get such good profile race photos!!
David
* Ironman for Life! (Blog) * IM Everyday Hero Video * Daggett Shuler Law *
Disclaimer: I have personal and professional relationships with many athletes, vendors, and organizations in the triathlon world.
----------------------------------------
I'm embarrassed after looking at yours! You must be younger and never get a neck irritation. I with some degree of regularity have the fastest bike split in my age group, but I feel like a sail after seeing you AND how do you get such good profile race photos!!
David
* Ironman for Life! (Blog) * IM Everyday Hero Video * Daggett Shuler Law *
Disclaimer: I have personal and professional relationships with many athletes, vendors, and organizations in the triathlon world.
Re: What slowtwitcher has the best long course bike position [Fishbum]
[ In reply to ]
I can hold this position comfortably and my CdA is very low. Photo courtesy of Scott Flathouse
"Only those who risk going too far can possibly find out how far one can go." T.S. Elliot | Cycle2Tri.com
Sponsors: SciCon | | Every Man Jack
Re: What slowtwitcher has the best long course bike position [wsrobert]
[ In reply to ]
wsrobert wrote:
Grill wrote:
Me. :PI thought the thread title was "best long course bike position"?
I do 100 mile and 12hr TTs on it, so if I fancied a swim and a run I don't see why I'd change it...
Re: What slowtwitcher has the best long course bike position [david]
[ In reply to ]
I'm looking down most of the race (which puts my head more out of the wind), just so happened to be looking up the road when the photog snapped the picture. My neck would be sore too if I held it like in the picture for the whole race!
We're pretty lucky down here in Texas to have Scott Flathouse taking pics at most of the big races, which he then posts on instagram.
We're pretty lucky down here in Texas to have Scott Flathouse taking pics at most of the big races, which he then posts on instagram.
Re: What slowtwitcher has the best long course bike position [Fishbum]
[ In reply to ]
Re: What slowtwitcher has the best long course bike position [david]
[ In reply to ]
david wrote:
" Only 8 inches of drop seat to pads." --------------------------
Do you mean cm . . . 8 inches is quite a big drop.
Re: What slowtwitcher has the best long course bike position [LAI]
[ In reply to ]
That position would be pretty impressive for a 10 mile TT. Kudos if he can hold that for 2-4 hours and then stand up straight, let alone run a marathon.
Re: What slowtwitcher has the best long course bike position [grumpier.mike]
[ In reply to ]
grumpier.mike wrote:
That position would be pretty impressive for a 10 mile TT. Kudos if he can hold that for 2-4 hours and then stand up straight, let alone run a marathon.He's faired pretty well with some of the fastest amateur bike splits at a bunch of 70.3's and has backed it up with a 1:20-1:22 half marathon.
blog
Re: What slowtwitcher has the best long course bike position [stevej]
[ In reply to ]
Judging by this thread it's a good thing I just ordered an Aerohead...
Re: What slowtwitcher has the best long course bike position [Grill]
[ In reply to ]
Grill wrote:
wsrobert wrote:
Grill wrote:
Me. :PI thought the thread title was "best long course bike position"?
I do 100 mile and 12hr TTs on it, so if I fancied a swim and a run I don't see why I'd change it...
Do you mind sharing your CdA? I have seen pictures of your position and the eyeball windtunnel says maybe sub-0.19, but then again the eyeball isn't always right.
Re: What slowtwitcher has the best long course bike position [stevej]
[ In reply to ]
stevej wrote:
I vote BBLOEHR. Interesting enough, he is on 172.5mm cranks. I think I have him convinced to switch to 165mm which would get him even more drop once he raises the saddle. Photo courtesy of Scott Flathouse
Why would you want to encourage more drop? It's unlikely to make him more aero (in fact it will probably have the opposite effect when he raises his saddles height) and is far more likely to have power production issues.
Re: What slowtwitcher has the best long course bike position [grumpier.mike]
[ In reply to ]
grumpier.mike wrote:
Grill wrote:
wsrobert wrote:
Grill wrote:
Me. :PI thought the thread title was "best long course bike position"?
I do 100 mile and 12hr TTs on it, so if I fancied a swim and a run I don't see why I'd change it...
Do you mind sharing your CdA? I have seen pictures of your position and the eyeball windtunnel says maybe sub-0.19, but then again the eyeball isn't always right.
Can't share, but you're close with last year's position on the Plasma 3. This year is much lower than that.
Re: What slowtwitcher has the best long course bike position [Grill]
[ In reply to ]
Grill wrote:
stevej wrote:
I vote BBLOEHR. Interesting enough, he is on 172.5mm cranks. I think I have him convinced to switch to 165mm which would get him even more drop once he raises the saddle. Photo courtesy of Scott Flathouse
Why would you want to encourage more drop? It's unlikely to make him more aero (in fact it will probably have the opposite effect when he raises his saddles height) and is far more likely to have power production issues.
I'm actually not. Just saying he could get more drop if he so chooses. But I do think he should be on shorter cranks, mainly to help his running and also open up his hip angle. I would just raise the pads 7.5 mm once going to 165mm.
blog
Re: What slowtwitcher has the best long course bike position [Grill]
[ In reply to ]
Grill wrote:
stevej wrote:
I vote BBLOEHR. Interesting enough, he is on 172.5mm cranks. I think I have him convinced to switch to 165mm which would get him even more drop once he raises the saddle. Photo courtesy of Scott Flathouse
Why would you want to encourage more drop? It's unlikely to make him more aero (in fact it will probably have the opposite effect when he raises his saddles height) and is far more likely to have power production issues.
His position looks very nice. Judging by his stem length it looks like he's on a much larger bike than the rest of us which allows him to get nice and long. Or am I way off base on that
Re: What slowtwitcher has the best long course bike position [Fishbum]
[ In reply to ]
Here's mine, as set up by Dan
I can ride it all day long.
---------------------------
''Sweeney - you can both crush your AG *and* cruise in dead last!! đź‚ '' Murphy's Law
I can ride it all day long.
---------------------------
''Sweeney - you can both crush your AG *and* cruise in dead last!! đź‚ '' Murphy's Law
Re: What slowtwitcher has the best long course bike position [Sweeney]
[ In reply to ]
I feel like the best way to get some good advice out of this thread would be to claim that I think I have the best form of all and then let all of you rip apart my position until I feel like a windsock... but I can't bring myself to even claim it.
I'm happy I found a position that I can hold comfortably for 112 miles without coming out of aero, but compared to some of these shots I see that I definitely still have some work to do.. but please if you still feel like criticizing feel free. I'm always looking to improve on my YouTube/trial & error built position.
Too old to go pro but doing it anyway
http://instagram.com/tgarvey4
I'm happy I found a position that I can hold comfortably for 112 miles without coming out of aero, but compared to some of these shots I see that I definitely still have some work to do.. but please if you still feel like criticizing feel free. I'm always looking to improve on my YouTube/trial & error built position.
Too old to go pro but doing it anyway
http://instagram.com/tgarvey4
Re: What slowtwitcher has the best long course bike position [Sean H]
[ In reply to ]
8/10.
-1 for head position
-1 for chip placement
-1 for head position
-1 for chip placement
Re: What slowtwitcher has the best long course bike position [CPT Chaos]
[ In reply to ]
8/10
-1 for head position
-1 for extension choice
also, your bike is too small
-1 for head position
-1 for extension choice
also, your bike is too small
Re: What slowtwitcher has the best long course bike position [doublea334]
[ In reply to ]
9/10
your helmet choice actually works pretty well with your head/back position, eyeball wise.
-1 for being in the little ring, ever.
your helmet choice actually works pretty well with your head/back position, eyeball wise.
-1 for being in the little ring, ever.
Re: What slowtwitcher has the best long course bike position [LAI]
[ In reply to ]
9/10 for kiley
-1 for not having a disc. what a proletariat.
-1 for not having a disc. what a proletariat.
Re: What slowtwitcher has the best long course bike position [MrRabbit]
[ In reply to ]
hmm.
6/10
-1 for elbow width
-1 for head position
-1 for stack height
-1 for only having lame watermarked finisherpix of you on the bike.
6/10
-1 for elbow width
-1 for head position
-1 for stack height
-1 for only having lame watermarked finisherpix of you on the bike.
Re: What slowtwitcher has the best long course bike position [Fishbum]
[ In reply to ]
We should need to post a link to our ironman results and files, and not just the bike split...
Re: What slowtwitcher has the best long course bike position [Fishbum]
[ In reply to ]
My money is on Rob Gray. That guy holds just as aero a position as all these photoshop queens on this thread and does it for an entire Ultraman bike leg for 2 days (OK OK, you guys did some of these positions in real life but not UM). Sorry guys, but once you can hold Rob's position for that, long you're in the running to dethrone him.
End of thread.
End of thread.
Re: What slowtwitcher has the best long course bike position [peace242000]
[ In reply to ]
-3 for caring about anything other than the bike split
Quote:
We should need to post a link to our ironman results and files, and not just the bike split...
Re: What slowtwitcher has the best long course bike position [stevej]
[ In reply to ]
Sadly, he is not as aero as I am. He would have to shave off 1/3 of his body to get close.
"Only those who risk going too far can possibly find out how far one can go." T.S. Elliot | Cycle2Tri.com
Sponsors: SciCon | | Every Man Jack
"Only those who risk going too far can possibly find out how far one can go." T.S. Elliot | Cycle2Tri.com
Sponsors: SciCon | | Every Man Jack
Re: What slowtwitcher has the best long course bike position [devashish_paul]
[ In reply to ]
devashish_paul wrote:
My money is on Rob Gray. That guy holds just as aero a position as all these photoshop queens on this thread and does it for an entire Ultraman bike leg for 2 days (OK OK, you guys did some of these positions in real life but not UM). Sorry guys, but once you can hold Rob's position for that, long you're in the running to dethrone him. End of thread.
Sorry Dev, not sure where you're getting that rob gray is aero.
that bike position blows.
Re: What slowtwitcher has the best long course bike position [devashish_paul]
[ In reply to ]
devashish_paul wrote:
My money is on Rob Gray. That guy holds just as aero a position as all these photoshop queens on this thread and does it for an entire Ultraman bike leg for 2 days (OK OK, you guys did some of these positions in real life but not UM). Sorry guys, but once you can hold Rob's position for that, long you're in the running to dethrone him. End of thread.
Paul where is your pic
Re: What slowtwitcher has the best long course bike position [jkhayc]
[ In reply to ]
Sorry, your comments are not helpful, nor correct. My position has been tested, refined and refined some more. Comfort and power have to be involved in any good bike fit so pure aero is not the fastest, especially over the longer distances. If I only did 10 mile TTs, my position would be much more aggressive.
"Only those who risk going too far can possibly find out how far one can go." T.S. Elliot | Cycle2Tri.com
Sponsors: SciCon | | Every Man Jack
"Only those who risk going too far can possibly find out how far one can go." T.S. Elliot | Cycle2Tri.com
Sponsors: SciCon | | Every Man Jack
Re: What slowtwitcher has the best long course bike position [CPT Chaos]
[ In reply to ]
Re: What slowtwitcher has the best long course bike position [jkhayc]
[ In reply to ]
yep, I used a larger frame for a year, then tried the smaller one. Massive improvement in position. The saddle, sadly is similar to Jordan's issue. I cannot use a noseless one. Coming from 20 years of road racing, I am so used to a normal saddle that a noseless one is so hard to ride, my power drops 15%.
"Only those who risk going too far can possibly find out how far one can go." T.S. Elliot | Cycle2Tri.com
Sponsors: SciCon | | Every Man Jack
"Only those who risk going too far can possibly find out how far one can go." T.S. Elliot | Cycle2Tri.com
Sponsors: SciCon | | Every Man Jack
Re: What slowtwitcher has the best long course bike position [CPT Chaos]
[ In reply to ]
that's unfortunate. you appear to be reach limited. hence, 8/10.
Re: What slowtwitcher has the best long course bike position [Grill]
[ In reply to ]
Quote:
Do you mind sharing your CdA? I have seen pictures of your position and the eyeball windtunnel says maybe sub-0.19, but then again the eyeball isn't always right.Quote:
Can't share, but you're close with last year's position on the Plasma 3. This year is much lower than that.like it's some big national security secret. you're a hobby time trialist and most of us are hobby triathletes. please.
Re: What slowtwitcher has the best long course bike position [jkhayc]
[ In reply to ]
jkhayc wrote:
hmm. 6/10
-1 for elbow width
-1 for head position
-1 for stack height
-1 for only having lame watermarked finisherpix of you on the bike.
Now that's what I'm looking for! Lower score means I have more to gain.
I've actually tried narrower elbows but it ends up killing my shoulders around 85 miles in... but I can keep trying with smaller adjustments. And noted on the stack height. I've gradually been tweaking it and seeing it compared to others on here makes that point obvious.
As for the pictures... man they are expensive.
And as a note, this was from my last race at IM Santa Rosa. Pretty hilly, held 214 NP for a 4:51. Sounds like I should have been faster at that power.
Too old to go pro but doing it anyway
http://instagram.com/tgarvey4
Re: What slowtwitcher has the best long course bike position [jkhayc]
[ In reply to ]
jkhayc wrote:
8/10. -1 for head position
-1 for chip placement
Agreed. Figured you would have docked me at least a point for the Dimond too.
Re: What slowtwitcher has the best long course bike position [MrRabbit]
[ In reply to ]
practice make perfect (with regard to elbows). you wanna go just narrow enough that you can still "shrug" and hold a good head position, but not so narrow that you fatigue early and lose the shrug.. that's a solid time on solid power.
Re: What slowtwitcher has the best long course bike position [Sean H]
[ In reply to ]
Sean H wrote:
jkhayc wrote:
8/10. -1 for head position
-1 for chip placement
Agreed. Figured you would have docked me at least a point for the Dimond too.
oops, my post was a typo...
should have read
-8/10
-1 for head
-1 for chip placement (not in the "faired" position where the chip is behind your achilles/soleus and therefore significantly more aero)
-16 for Dimond ;)
Re: What slowtwitcher has the best long course bike position [jkhayc]
[ In reply to ]
jkhayc wrote:
9/10 for kiley -1 for not having a disc. what a proletariat.
Showing favoritism towards Kiley, eh? -1 for chip placement.
Re: What slowtwitcher has the best long course bike position [Fishbum]
[ In reply to ]
Fishbum wrote:
devashish_paul wrote:
My money is on Rob Gray. That guy holds just as aero a position as all these photoshop queens on this thread and does it for an entire Ultraman bike leg for 2 days (OK OK, you guys did some of these positions in real life but not UM). Sorry guys, but once you can hold Rob's position for that, long you're in the running to dethrone him. End of thread.
Paul where is your pic
I am living vicariously through Rob Gray. I could post my Chris Boardman style aero position with a look ergostem base bar clamp buried 1 inch above the front tire from IMC 1995 when I was 30 and flexible (or from Wildflower 96 too....bike 2:39 and ran 1:28 that race on a super low and narrow position). Multiple crashes, broken bones, neck and head injuries later, most people's grandmothers going to 7-11 to buy a carton of milk have better positions, but mine was sufficient to get podiums in 50-54 until I stopped racing 2 years ago. Right now, not riding, nor running....so no pictures. Mine is was in the range of David's above but a bit worse. Probably a bit higher maybe more shrug. I did have the same ride and run as Rob did at Wildflower 2015, but Rob was out of shape and I was in shape.
OK, I found one on my hard drive from a few years ago. Its basically a road position, head down with shrug to get around several biomechanical limitations. Saddle is slammed all the way back around 5 cm behind BB to get weight off my shoulders and neck...basically John Cobb's old "big slam".
Re: What slowtwitcher has the best long course bike position [jkhayc]
[ In reply to ]
jkhayc wrote:
9/10 your helmet choice actually works pretty well with your head/back position, eyeball wise.
-1 for being in the little ring, ever.
How bout I get that +1 back for climbing in aero while spinning my 36/25 gear? That's like 9mph aero!
Alex Arman
Strava
Re: What slowtwitcher has the best long course bike position [devashish_paul]
[ In reply to ]
4-5/10 for that pic/position Dev
Re: What slowtwitcher has the best long course bike position [doublea334]
[ In reply to ]
Pretty crappy pic, but the position did get me the quickest amateur bike split at Eagleman this year.
Blog: http://262toboylstonstreet.blogspot.com/
https://twitter.com/NateThomasTri
Coaching: https://bybtricoaching.com/ - accepting athletes for 2023
Blog: http://262toboylstonstreet.blogspot.com/
https://twitter.com/NateThomasTri
Coaching: https://bybtricoaching.com/ - accepting athletes for 2023
Re: What slowtwitcher has the best long course bike position [Sweeney]
[ In reply to ]
Sweeney wrote:
Here's mine, as set up by Dan I can ride it all day long.
Reminds me of this:
Re: What slowtwitcher has the best long course bike position [Dilbert]
[ In reply to ]
Dilbert wrote:
Not me. I have more neck problems than a 40 year old football player. Only 8 cm of drop seat to pads. I'm a parachute.I can beat that...59mm of drop! Sorry for the hijack
Ask me how much I love my Kiwami LD Aero Trisuit
Re: What slowtwitcher has the best long course bike position [kileyay]
[ In reply to ]
kileyay wrote:
Sweeney wrote:
Here's mine, as set up by Dan I can ride it all day long.
Reminds me of this:
LOL.
Re: What slowtwitcher has the best long course bike position [jkhayc]
[ In reply to ]
Understood. I hesitated to post it on this thread, but fishburn was asking. It is a work around with various mangled body parts from a few substantial accidents and associated head injuries and post concussion symptoms that kick in if things are weighed the wrong way even for short durations. Even something as simple as wearing an aero helmet with ear flaps would give me a headache for a week.
To David's point, it is hard to compare 50 year old athlete positions to 30 year old ones, just like it is hard to compare 50 year old run times to 30 year old ones due to the numerous biomechanical limitations that accumulate over time. A few 50-70 year olds run really well and a few (Joe Boness and a few others) have sustained very good positions with no cervical or lumbar impingements. Th picture was taken was just 2 years after getting evacuated off an IM course in Switzerland with a long recovery during which I had to do simple things like re learn to walk then jog, then cycle due to several nervous system complications. Luckily the engine was good to go when I got most of that working again. At that point there were several work arounds with the big slam.
If I have the pics from 1995, it's pretty well the same as Boardman from that era.
To David's point, it is hard to compare 50 year old athlete positions to 30 year old ones, just like it is hard to compare 50 year old run times to 30 year old ones due to the numerous biomechanical limitations that accumulate over time. A few 50-70 year olds run really well and a few (Joe Boness and a few others) have sustained very good positions with no cervical or lumbar impingements. Th picture was taken was just 2 years after getting evacuated off an IM course in Switzerland with a long recovery during which I had to do simple things like re learn to walk then jog, then cycle due to several nervous system complications. Luckily the engine was good to go when I got most of that working again. At that point there were several work arounds with the big slam.
If I have the pics from 1995, it's pretty well the same as Boardman from that era.
Last edited by:
devashish_paul: Aug 9, 17 18:16
Re: What slowtwitcher has the best long course bike position [kileyay]
[ In reply to ]
Kileyay, Do you have any pics from the side?
And what's your setup on your Felt. Stem length etc.
And what's your setup on your Felt. Stem length etc.
Re: What slowtwitcher has the best long course bike position [Sean H]
[ In reply to ]
What do I win for this competition? I race and train and in this position whenever possible, pretty simple. Jack, Steve, Rob, Sean, and Ryan have all biked faster then me in races I have gone head to head with them in but I have normally raced with way way way lower watts. Jack is closest to me in watts but he is also 20lbs lighter then me. Where do I collect my prize?
Head down pic in link at bottom since i can't work tiny pic tonight very well.
[/img]
2024: Bevoman, Galveston, Alcatraz, Marble Falls, Santa Cruz
Head down pic in link at bottom since i can't work tiny pic tonight very well.
[/img]
2024: Bevoman, Galveston, Alcatraz, Marble Falls, Santa Cruz
Re: What slowtwitcher has the best long course bike position [Fishbum]
[ In reply to ]
Fishbum wrote:
Kileyay, Do you have any pics from the side? And what's your setup on your Felt. Stem length etc.
Right now, I have the 111mm Syntace Flat Force stem -- not sure what the effective angle is, maybe ~ -25 degrees -- with the Enve bar undermount, no spacers, Profile Design F35 cups/pads
Re: What slowtwitcher has the best long course bike position [kileyay]
[ In reply to ]
Your giving me a run for my money here!
2024: Bevoman, Galveston, Alcatraz, Marble Falls, Santa Cruz
2024: Bevoman, Galveston, Alcatraz, Marble Falls, Santa Cruz
Re: What slowtwitcher has the best long course bike position [Fishbum]
[ In reply to ]
Re: What slowtwitcher has the best long course bike position [stevej]
[ In reply to ]
I am going to 165 and re look at seat position this winter when I get on a new bike. Always trying to get better and find room for improvement.
2024: Bevoman, Galveston, Alcatraz, Marble Falls, Santa Cruz
2024: Bevoman, Galveston, Alcatraz, Marble Falls, Santa Cruz
Re: What slowtwitcher has the best long course bike position [desert dude]
[ In reply to ]
Thank you.
Re: What slowtwitcher has the best long course bike position [Fishbum]
[ In reply to ]
Re: What slowtwitcher has the best long course bike position [BBLOEHR]
[ In reply to ]
BBLOEHR wrote:
I am going to 165 and re look at seat position this winter when I get on a new bike. Always trying to get better and find room for improvement.what could you possibly be buying that is a significant upgrade from your current setup. just because you're a dentist, doesn't mean you have to feed the stereotype... lol
Re: What slowtwitcher has the best long course bike position [kileyay]
[ In reply to ]
kileyay wrote:
Sweeney wrote:
Here's mine, as set up by Dan I can ride it all day long.
Reminds me of this:
Dan? I am no expert, but this looks awful.
Re: What slowtwitcher has the best long course bike position [CMattos]
[ In reply to ]
was your posture better for the IM?
-4 points for having a downtube bottle for an olympic
-4 points for having a downtube bottle for an olympic
Re: What slowtwitcher has the best long course bike position [jkhayc]
[ In reply to ]
jkhayc wrote:
was your posture better for the IM? -4 points for having a downtube bottle for an olympic
This is what we have been telling this protour tourists:
Re: What slowtwitcher has the best long course bike position [devashish_paul]
[ In reply to ]
well, they are required by regulations to have a bottle there, are they not?
Re: What slowtwitcher has the best long course bike position [jkhayc]
[ In reply to ]
Re: What slowtwitcher has the best long course bike position [devashish_paul]
[ In reply to ]
ok "IF" they're gonna have a bottle it has to be there.
don't sidetrack this thread.
don't sidetrack this thread.
Re: What slowtwitcher has the best long course bike position [jkhayc]
[ In reply to ]
jkhayc wrote:
ok "IF" they're gonna have a bottle it has to be there. don't sidetrack this thread.
Yes, that is the place they have to put it, but the funny thing is for short TT's that they at least don't use aero bottles whether they drink or not, the aero bottle should make their bike more aero at their higher speeds with low yaw. Your comment to the guy about minus points for Olympic and having the bottle, he could have an aero bottle for that duration of race....and yes, I realize that some guys have posted that Sky's Pinarello is pretty good with a round bottle in that position the way it is designed (don't know how, but that is the claim as I am not sure how a round trailing edge for an airfoil is ever faster....we never put them on aircraft or in water in a denser medium on subs)
Re: What slowtwitcher has the best long course bike position [jkhayc]
[ In reply to ]
jkhayc wrote:
Quote:
Do you mind sharing your CdA? I have seen pictures of your position and the eyeball windtunnel says maybe sub-0.19, but then again the eyeball isn't always right.Quote:
Can't share, but you're close with last year's position on the Plasma 3. This year is much lower than that.like it's some big national security secret. you're a hobby time trialist and most of us are hobby triathletes. please.
I signed an NDA and I take my hobby quite seriously thank you very much. ;)
Re: What slowtwitcher has the best long course bike position [desert dude]
[ In reply to ]
desert dude wrote:
Define best?Easy
1. Lowest CdA for the bike leg
2. Can still run after the bike leg
There are some goofy positions that are still really fast. On the U.K. Timetrialing site there was a guy with a pretty high position with a CdA of 0.18. Given that very few people seem capable of a 0.22 CdA just image how fresh you would be after putting in a smoking fast bike leg.
Re: What slowtwitcher has the best long course bike position [BBLOEHR]
[ In reply to ]
I'm envious of how well you all hold your heads. I'm going to have to work on that. Nonetheless, I do pretty well with this position on very pedestrian power.
Dimond Bikes Superfan
Dimond Bikes Superfan
Re: What slowtwitcher has the best long course bike position [ericlambi]
[ In reply to ]
At least you have fixed my one aero sin: rear bottle setup. I have worked very hard in 2017 on head and shoulder position.
2024: Bevoman, Galveston, Alcatraz, Marble Falls, Santa Cruz
2024: Bevoman, Galveston, Alcatraz, Marble Falls, Santa Cruz
Re: What slowtwitcher has the best long course bike position [ahhchon]
[ In reply to ]
ahhchon wrote:
BBLOEHR wrote:
I am going to 165 and re look at seat position this winter when I get on a new bike. Always trying to get better and find room for improvement.what could you possibly be buying that is a significant upgrade from your current setup. just because you're a dentist, doesn't mean you have to feed the stereotype... lol
As Steve said I am interested to try 165 cranks, which is debatable if it will help or not, but I want to try at least. My rear bottle placement is not ideal, but with that saddle i am locked into that current bottle placement. Will try a Dash saddle in 2018. Frame still looking at the Felt option, have had some people tell me that its a longer top tube but I have not looked that far into it yet not even really sure if a longer top tube I would need just considering all options.
I think I also benefit from being able to fit into a small helmet when a lot of guys are stuck with a bigger brain and having to go with a med or large.
2024: Bevoman, Galveston, Alcatraz, Marble Falls, Santa Cruz
Re: What slowtwitcher has the best long course bike position [Fishbum]
[ In reply to ]
Re: What slowtwitcher has the best long course bike position [Morelock]
[ In reply to ]
Morelock wrote:
Hope you're not on a Stages. Looks like your left leg may be overestimate your pow..... OH MY GOD!!
Alex Arman
Strava
Re: What slowtwitcher has the best long course bike position [Fishbum]
[ In reply to ]
Re: What slowtwitcher has the best long course bike position [jkhayc]
[ In reply to ]
Thanks, I'll keep that in mind when I make some adjustments this weekend.
Quick question on head position.. I was happy to get the tail of my helmet touching my back, but comparing how I look to the others on here it looks like my head is sticking out above my body like a sail. To get that point back, is it a fit thing or literally just hunching over a bit more and dropping my neck down a bit?
Too old to go pro but doing it anyway
http://instagram.com/tgarvey4
Quick question on head position.. I was happy to get the tail of my helmet touching my back, but comparing how I look to the others on here it looks like my head is sticking out above my body like a sail. To get that point back, is it a fit thing or literally just hunching over a bit more and dropping my neck down a bit?
Too old to go pro but doing it anyway
http://instagram.com/tgarvey4
Re: What slowtwitcher has the best long course bike position [jrielley]
[ In reply to ]
jrielley wrote:
[/img] I know this isn't the best but works well for me and can run well off the bike. Updates from this pic are the 0x110 fixed position stem and aerohead helmet. Let's see how I fare at Steelhead!
Do you have the knuckle stem on there or are you running one of the rise stems? if so, how much rise in the photo?
My YouTubes
Re: What slowtwitcher has the best long course bike position [MrRabbit]
[ In reply to ]
as you said, it's more of a posture thing. kinda trying to stick your chin in between your arms. honestly, head position is probably the thing most left on the table by most athletes. with everything else being the same, i wouldn't be surprised if the delta from a bad head position to a really good one is ~15w.
Re: What slowtwitcher has the best long course bike position [LAI]
[ In reply to ]
I follow his username but my answer is Anthony costes!
Re: What slowtwitcher has the best long course bike position [Grill]
[ In reply to ]
Grill wrote:
jkhayc wrote:
Quote:
Do you mind sharing your CdA? I have seen pictures of your position and the eyeball windtunnel says maybe sub-0.19, but then again the eyeball isn't always right.Quote:
Can't share, but you're close with last year's position on the Plasma 3. This year is much lower than that.like it's some big national security secret. you're a hobby time trialist and most of us are hobby triathletes. please.
I signed an NDA and I take my hobby quite seriously thank you very much. ;)
Think that's the mantra of anyone at ST...you fit right in...even if jkhayc thinks your NDA is rubbish.
Re: What slowtwitcher has the best long course bike position [grumpier.mike]
[ In reply to ]
grumpier.mike wrote:
desert dude wrote:
Define best?Easy
1. Lowest CdA for the bike leg
2. Can still run after the bike leg
There are some goofy positions that are still really fast. On the U.K. Timetrialing site there was a guy with a pretty high position with a CdA of 0.18. Given that very few people seem capable of a 0.22 CdA just image how fresh you would be after putting in a smoking fast bike leg.
There needs to be more criteria than that, I have nearly the lowest drag of anyone here only because I'm smaller but I'm certainly not the fastest .
Perhaps watts/drag?
Re: What slowtwitcher has the best long course bike position [LAI]
[ In reply to ]
Re: What slowtwitcher has the best long course bike position [Grill]
[ In reply to ]
Grill wrote:
jkhayc wrote:
Quote:
Do you mind sharing your CdA? I have seen pictures of your position and the eyeball windtunnel says maybe sub-0.19, but then again the eyeball isn't always right.Quote:
Can't share, but you're close with last year's position on the Plasma 3. This year is much lower than that.like it's some big national security secret. you're a hobby time trialist and most of us are hobby triathletes. please.
I signed an NDA and I take my hobby quite seriously thank you very much. ;)
Do you have a picture of the new and old positions? I remember seeing one on the Plasma, but I haven't seen the P5.
I also wondered if you worked with Disley or Smart to come up with that position (I assume you are somewhere in the UK) or do you just pick up ideas from being part of the TT scene over there?
Re: What slowtwitcher has the best long course bike position [jaretj]
[ In reply to ]
jaretj wrote:
There needs to be more criteria than that, I have nearly the lowest drag of anyone here only because I'm smaller but I'm certainly not the fastest . Perhaps watts/drag?
Well, since he is merely looking to emulate the best positions I'm not sure adding power into the equation matters much. Also, when you say small what does that mean? and nearly the lowest drag? What did you test out at?
My YouTubes
Re: What slowtwitcher has the best long course bike position [jaretj]
[ In reply to ]
jaretj wrote:
grumpier.mike wrote:
desert dude wrote:
Define best?Easy
1. Lowest CdA for the bike leg
2. Can still run after the bike leg
There are some goofy positions that are still really fast. On the U.K. Timetrialing site there was a guy with a pretty high position with a CdA of 0.18. Given that very few people seem capable of a 0.22 CdA just image how fresh you would be after putting in a smoking fast bike leg.
There needs to be more criteria than that, I have nearly the lowest drag of anyone here only because I'm smaller but I'm certainly not the fastest .
Perhaps watts/drag?
Good point. You would really want the lowest Cd, but you can't measure that. Watts/drag makes it less about position and more about power output. I am sure Cancellara kills it on watts/drag, but there is nothing I can legally do to get close to his power output.
Re: What slowtwitcher has the best long course bike position [jkhayc]
[ In reply to ]
I always felt that there was something holding me back... damn water bottle hahaha.
Yes, maybe I should get an aero bottle for the frame, but honestly for me at least it's more about getting more power than tweaking aero.
As for IM's I can pretty much hold the same position although I tend to not be so "low" in the aerobars.
Yes, maybe I should get an aero bottle for the frame, but honestly for me at least it's more about getting more power than tweaking aero.
As for IM's I can pretty much hold the same position although I tend to not be so "low" in the aerobars.
Re: What slowtwitcher has the best long course bike position [Fishbum]
[ In reply to ]
Since it is #TBT, it's only fitting I load up an old image of me on the bike from 1993 at IRONMAN Hawaii. Rode just under 5 hours. What do you think? How could I have been better?
Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog
Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog
Re: What slowtwitcher has the best long course bike position [Fleck]
[ In reply to ]
Re: What slowtwitcher has the best long course bike position [jkhayc]
[ In reply to ]
Re: What slowtwitcher has the best long course bike position [mackito]
[ In reply to ]
his shoulders are too wide, minus points for that.
Re: What slowtwitcher has the best long course bike position [Fleck]
[ In reply to ]
-1 for bad head position
-1 for tubulars
-1 for external cable routing
-1 for bib placement/attachment
-1 for no powermeter so no way to verify quality of position!
-1 for tubulars
-1 for external cable routing
-1 for bib placement/attachment
-1 for no powermeter so no way to verify quality of position!
Re: What slowtwitcher has the best long course bike position [Morelock]
[ In reply to ]
-4 for non aero apparel
Re: What slowtwitcher has the best long course bike position [grumpier.mike]
[ In reply to ]
grumpier.mike wrote:
Grill wrote:
jkhayc wrote:
Quote:
Do you mind sharing your CdA? I have seen pictures of your position and the eyeball windtunnel says maybe sub-0.19, but then again the eyeball isn't always right.Quote:
Can't share, but you're close with last year's position on the Plasma 3. This year is much lower than that.like it's some big national security secret. you're a hobby time trialist and most of us are hobby triathletes. please.
I signed an NDA and I take my hobby quite seriously thank you very much. ;)
Do you have a picture of the new and old positions? I remember seeing one on the Plasma, but I haven't seen the P5.
I also wondered if you worked with Disley or Smart to come up with that position (I assume you are somewhere in the UK) or do you just pick up ideas from being part of the TT scene over there?
A whole lot of work with Disley to get the position (especially after the bike change an some people being silly about the rules). Position-wise, what is fast on one frame, isn't necessarily as fast on the other, which was a tough pill to swallow and a cautionary tale for anyone looking to change frames when they're already dialled in.
Old position:
New position:
Profile in this gallery: http://www.kimroy-photography.co.uk/...php?g2_itemId=687151
Re: What slowtwitcher has the best long course bike position [Fishbum]
[ In reply to ]
Bjorn's position has been pretty awesome over the years.
He used to be much lower, but this position was faster.
He used to be much lower, but this position was faster.
Re: What slowtwitcher has the best long course bike position [jkhayc]
[ In reply to ]
-1 for bad head position
-1 for tubulars
-1 for external cable routing
-1 for bib placement/attachment
-1 for no powermeter so no way to verify quality of position!
For the first - I was just acknowledging the photographer - a friend of mine who was in the Press Truck!
For the rest, it was 1993 - we had no idea what we were doing! :)
Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog
-1 for tubulars
-1 for external cable routing
-1 for bib placement/attachment
-1 for no powermeter so no way to verify quality of position!
For the first - I was just acknowledging the photographer - a friend of mine who was in the Press Truck!
For the rest, it was 1993 - we had no idea what we were doing! :)
Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog
Re: What slowtwitcher has the best long course bike position [Fishbum]
[ In reply to ]
Re: What slowtwitcher has the best long course bike position [Fishbum]
[ In reply to ]
i know MITRI has a pretty good position. perhaps he'll post a pic if he checks in.
looking at some of these pictures, i'm convinced some people have had their genitalia removed to get in position. even with a stubby split-nose seat, I can't get that low.
king of the road says you move too slow
KING OF THE ROAD SAYS YOU MOVE TOO SLOW
looking at some of these pictures, i'm convinced some people have had their genitalia removed to get in position. even with a stubby split-nose seat, I can't get that low.
king of the road says you move too slow
KING OF THE ROAD SAYS YOU MOVE TOO SLOW
Re: What slowtwitcher has the best long course bike position [ttocsmi]
[ In reply to ]
which way are you pointing yours? if you place everything correctly, you should never...EVER...experience interaction between "genitalia" and saddle.
Re: What slowtwitcher has the best long course bike position [mackito]
[ In reply to ]
mackito wrote:
I follow his username but my answer is Anthony costes!
I happen to know what his CDA is. I can't say what it is exactly, but it's sub 0.2 ;)
Re: What slowtwitcher has the best long course bike position [Grill]
[ In reply to ]
How do you like the Tula?
Re: What slowtwitcher has the best long course bike position [GreenPlease]
[ In reply to ]
Not to answer for Grill, but I like my Tula's.
I had them on my track bike for a while, moved them over to my TT bike this year. Braking (w/Nokons and OmegaX front/1st Gen SC rear) takes just a bit to get used to, but actual power is on par with other full integrated (Ventus) setups. If you take turns out of aero I actually think the pods have better feel than normal horns.
The caveat to all that is that you can live with the fixed position of the extensions and the pads. The R&R setup is...ok... but that single pinch bolt that holds everything together always makes me slightly nervous.
They tested as good as my Nano's. (although mine are 420cm, you'd expect 380's to be better) in the tunnel.
My Blog - http://leegoocrap.blogspot.com
I had them on my track bike for a while, moved them over to my TT bike this year. Braking (w/Nokons and OmegaX front/1st Gen SC rear) takes just a bit to get used to, but actual power is on par with other full integrated (Ventus) setups. If you take turns out of aero I actually think the pods have better feel than normal horns.
The caveat to all that is that you can live with the fixed position of the extensions and the pads. The R&R setup is...ok... but that single pinch bolt that holds everything together always makes me slightly nervous.
They tested as good as my Nano's. (although mine are 420cm, you'd expect 380's to be better) in the tunnel.
My Blog - http://leegoocrap.blogspot.com
Re: What slowtwitcher has the best long course bike position [Fleck]
[ In reply to ]
Anyone showing up at and Ironman race in this day and age and lay down a sub-5 in that set up would be a legend on ST ... like the bike share guy who did IM France or the dude that went up the hill at Savageman on the big ring. However, since you did it back in the 1993, this can only be classified as, "eh ... cute set up" :)
__________________________________________________________________________
My marathon PR is "under three, high twos. I had a two hour and fifty-something."
Fleck wrote:
Since it is #TBT, it's only fitting I load up an old image of me on the bike from 1993 at IRONMAN Hawaii. Rode just under 5 hours. What do you think? How could I have been better? __________________________________________________________________________
My marathon PR is "under three, high twos. I had a two hour and fifty-something."
Re: What slowtwitcher has the best long course bike position [GreenPlease]
[ In reply to ]
Can't complain. Super strong on the front with the Omega X (even with super tight routing).
Re: What slowtwitcher has the best long course bike position [CMattos]
[ In reply to ]
I like the position and set up, love the color scheme going on here, why the down tube water bottle in a oly and why have it be yellow? Your got such a good black on black on red theme why mess that up with a splash of yellow. Could ding you for not covering the valve hole on the disk, but i do the same thing often. I should also mention the massive strap on those mavic shoes, but then again we are supposed to be talking about position only, sorry I digress.
2024: Bevoman, Galveston, Alcatraz, Marble Falls, Santa Cruz
2024: Bevoman, Galveston, Alcatraz, Marble Falls, Santa Cruz
Re: What slowtwitcher has the best long course bike position [Sean H]
[ In reply to ]
I don't know if you have the best bike position but you might have the least body fat. I need to lose about 10 lbs
They constantly try to escape from the darkness outside and within
Dreaming of systems so perfect that no one will need to be good T.S. Eliot
They constantly try to escape from the darkness outside and within
Dreaming of systems so perfect that no one will need to be good T.S. Eliot
Re: What slowtwitcher has the best long course bike position [GreenPlease]
[ In reply to ]
at 0?
Re: What slowtwitcher has the best long course bike position [jkhayc]
[ In reply to ]
jkhayc wrote:
head position is probably the thing most left on the table by most athletes. with everything else being the same, i wouldn't be surprised if the delta from a bad head position to a really good one is ~15w.x1000
This really can't be overstated. When I'm riding 25+ miles per hour, I swear I can feel the drag go down from head popped up to head turtled and tucked. I have been meaning to Chung test this, but I'll bet it's more like 25 watts
Re: What slowtwitcher has the best long course bike position [len]
[ In reply to ]
Thanks? lol
I'm right there with you at the moment. Coming out of my off season and I'm at about 8-10 lbs more than I was in that pic. Getting back up to 50-60 mpw running should do the trick in no time at all.
I'm right there with you at the moment. Coming out of my off season and I'm at about 8-10 lbs more than I was in that pic. Getting back up to 50-60 mpw running should do the trick in no time at all.
Re: What slowtwitcher has the best long course bike position [kileyay]
[ In reply to ]
kileyay wrote:
jkhayc wrote:
head position is probably the thing most left on the table by most athletes. with everything else being the same, i wouldn't be surprised if the delta from a bad head position to a really good one is ~15w.x1000
This really can't be overstated. When I'm riding 25+ miles per hour, I swear I can feel the drag go down from head popped up to head turtled and tucked. I have been meaning to Chung test this, but I'll bet it's more like 25 watts
More like <5w depending on helmet.
Re: What slowtwitcher has the best long course bike position [Grill]
[ In reply to ]
Grill wrote:
kileyay wrote:
jkhayc wrote:
head position is probably the thing most left on the table by most athletes. with everything else being the same, i wouldn't be surprised if the delta from a bad head position to a really good one is ~15w.x1000
This really can't be overstated. When I'm riding 25+ miles per hour, I swear I can feel the drag go down from head popped up to head turtled and tucked. I have been meaning to Chung test this, but I'll bet it's more like 25 watts
More like <5w depending on helmet.
That may be true for you. But I would make a serious bet that my head popped up in the air vs. my best turtle is a much more meaningful difference.
Re: What slowtwitcher has the best long course bike position [kileyay]
[ In reply to ]
Sure, it's likely more, but 25w wouldn't happen unless you have a Drop Dead Fred smashed in the fridge dome.
Re: What slowtwitcher has the best long course bike position [Grill]
[ In reply to ]
Grill wrote:
Sure, it's likely more, but 25w wouldn't happen unless you have a Drop Dead Fred smashed in the fridge dome.Until one of us has some data, I'm going to leave this here:
Re: What slowtwitcher has the best long course bike position [kileyay]
[ In reply to ]
kileyay wrote:
Grill wrote:
Sure, it's likely more, but 25w wouldn't happen unless you have a Drop Dead Fred smashed in the fridge dome.Until one of us has some data, I'm going to leave this here:
I no I asked about your stem but what's the rest of your fit info. Bike size, stack and reach,. Crank length exc.?????
Re: What slowtwitcher has the best long course bike position [Fishbum]
[ In reply to ]
Has Dan not chimed in yet?
Re: What slowtwitcher has the best long course bike position [Grill]
[ In reply to ]
Grill wrote:
kileyay wrote:
jkhayc wrote:
head position is probably the thing most left on the table by most athletes. with everything else being the same, i wouldn't be surprised if the delta from a bad head position to a really good one is ~15w.x1000
This really can't be overstated. When I'm riding 25+ miles per hour, I swear I can feel the drag go down from head popped up to head turtled and tucked. I have been meaning to Chung test this, but I'll bet it's more like 25 watts
More like <5w depending on helmet.
what??
you've seen the head positions that populate ST fit critiques and race pics, right? i mean, just look as this thread.. 15w is conservative. 25w is generous. the delta between terrible (most head positions) and excellent (your head position, for example), is pretty damn big.
Re: What slowtwitcher has the best long course bike position [Grill]
[ In reply to ]
Quote:
More like <5w depending on helmet.hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha omg I can't stop laughing
Sorry Grill but head position can make or break a position
Brian Stover USAT LII
Accelerate3 Coaching
Insta
Last edited by:
desert dude: Aug 10, 17 16:05
Re: What slowtwitcher has the best long course bike position [jkhayc]
[ In reply to ]
jkhayc wrote:
at 0?On the track so whatever average observed yaw you want to assign to that.
Re: What slowtwitcher has the best long course bike position [GreenPlease]
[ In reply to ]
well the track can't measure anything other than 0, so yea...0.
Re: What slowtwitcher has the best long course bike position [Grill]
[ In reply to ]
How about this Michigan guy:
Re: What slowtwitcher has the best long course bike position [Billyk24]
[ In reply to ]
Billyk24 wrote:
How about this Michigan guy: Uhg!!!!!
Re: What slowtwitcher has the best long course bike position [jkhayc]
[ In reply to ]
was going to see if I had a current pic to play along but in the process came across this picture from Kona 1989, again before a lot of aero goodies had been mainstreamed.
Mike Plumb, TriPower MultiSports
Professional Running, Cycling and Multisport Coaching, F.I.S.T. Certified
http://www.tripower.org
Mike Plumb, TriPower MultiSports
Professional Running, Cycling and Multisport Coaching, F.I.S.T. Certified
http://www.tripower.org
Re: What slowtwitcher has the best long course bike position [Fishbum]
[ In reply to ]
Top age group finisher at the Nationals in the past couple of years.
Re: What slowtwitcher has the best long course bike position [jkhayc]
[ In reply to ]
jkhayc wrote:
well the track can't measure anything other than 0, so yea...0.It's not zero. http://www.timetriallingforum.co.uk/...cycling-a-velodrome/
Re: What slowtwitcher has the best long course bike position [GreenPlease]
[ In reply to ]
i'd prefer someone more informed than either of us chime in on this subject, because trusting that one single experiment (self described as a "fast first try") is like trusting people on ST: debatable.
Either way, .2 is impressive if it's at 0. Out to 8-10 degrees of yaw it's not as impressive.
furthermore, that guy isn't a slowtwitcher that i'm aware of so doesn't count.
Either way, .2 is impressive if it's at 0. Out to 8-10 degrees of yaw it's not as impressive.
furthermore, that guy isn't a slowtwitcher that i'm aware of so doesn't count.
Re: What slowtwitcher has the best long course bike position [jkhayc]
[ In reply to ]
He's below 0.2.
You can search around for other people's work on yaw distributions on velodromes. Others have done more thorough research. I just posted the first available link from my phone.
You can search around for other people's work on yaw distributions on velodromes. Others have done more thorough research. I just posted the first available link from my phone.
Re: What slowtwitcher has the best long course bike position [GreenPlease]
[ In reply to ]
Re: What slowtwitcher has the best long course bike position [Fishbum]
[ In reply to ]
Not saying I'm the best and this picture isn't great but I'd love the feed back[/img]
Last edited by:
abetances15: Aug 10, 17 19:47
Re: What slowtwitcher has the best long course bike position [Fishbum]
[ In reply to ]
Re: What slowtwitcher has the best long course bike position [desert dude]
[ In reply to ]
desert dude wrote:
Quote:
More like <5w depending on helmet.hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha omg I can't stop laughing
Sorry Grill but head position can make or break a position
I have a massive amount of head position data as when I tested helmets I did them both head up and shrugged. Like I said, less than 5w for me, but others could see more.
Re: What slowtwitcher has the best long course bike position [jkhayc]
[ In reply to ]
jkhayc wrote:
well the track can't measure anything other than 0, so yea...0.No. Between 2-5 degrees on the track. I take it you've never ridden in a velodrome as you can feel it.
Re: What slowtwitcher has the best long course bike position [jkhayc]
[ In reply to ]
jkhayc wrote:
i'd prefer someone more informed than either of us chime in on this subject, because trusting that one single experiment (self described as a "fast first try") is like trusting people on ST: debatable. Either way, .2 is impressive if it's at 0. Out to 8-10 degrees of yaw it's not as impressive.
furthermore, that guy isn't a slowtwitcher that i'm aware of so doesn't count.
It took me some time but I did the mathematics. I wanted someone to check it, but under these circumstances I will upload the vector calculations tonight to the time trial forum.
Anyway, if my calculations are correct yaw on in a velodrome is always below 5°!
CdA below 0.2 m2 at 0° ist possible, I would even say if you have an appropriate talent it can be much below 0.2. However the triatlets I tested usually didn't reach such values.
Re: What slowtwitcher has the best long course bike position [BergHugi]
[ In reply to ]
thanks for swapping forums briefly. good to know re: velodrome testing. one of the variables i don't like very much about track testing vs. wind tunnel testing is the lack of options in terms of testing at various yaw angles...
i've tested as low as .21 or thereabouts for long course tri position in the tunnel (at 0) and 10 deg is usually .19 -.195ish
i've tested as low as .21 or thereabouts for long course tri position in the tunnel (at 0) and 10 deg is usually .19 -.195ish
Re: What slowtwitcher has the best long course bike position [jkhayc]
[ In reply to ]
I am not there yet, by I hope to get there soon.
Can't post pictures, so here is a link.
https://www.facebook.com/...p;type=3&theater
I will be doing on road video sessions, and VE testing soon.
Can't post pictures, so here is a link.
https://www.facebook.com/...p;type=3&theater
I will be doing on road video sessions, and VE testing soon.
Re: What slowtwitcher has the best long course bike position [Triagain3]
[ In reply to ]
Re: What slowtwitcher has the best long course bike position [jkhayc]
[ In reply to ]
thanks.
https://www.facebook.com/...p;type=3&theater
From the front, full race kit. Need a better fitting suit. And shoulder 4inches narrower.
https://www.facebook.com/...p;type=3&theater
From the front, full race kit. Need a better fitting suit. And shoulder 4inches narrower.
Re: What slowtwitcher has the best long course bike position [Triagain3]
[ In reply to ]
i'll let you post that one, it's really...really easy.
Re: What slowtwitcher has the best long course bike position [kileyay]
[ In reply to ]
Any tips on how to keep head always low and still see enough of the road to not crash?
do you raise the head frequently for few time to see what's ahead and then return to head-down position?
or in your current position can you maintain head-down for whole ride, sighting the road just enough?
do you raise the head frequently for few time to see what's ahead and then return to head-down position?
or in your current position can you maintain head-down for whole ride, sighting the road just enough?
Re: What slowtwitcher has the best long course bike position [pabloarc]
[ In reply to ]
use your eyes to look, not your head.
Re: What slowtwitcher has the best long course bike position [pabloarc]
[ In reply to ]
pabloarc wrote:
Any tips on how to keep head always low and still see enough of the road to not crash? do you raise the head frequently for few time to see what's ahead and then return to head-down position?
or in your current position can you maintain head-down for whole ride, sighting the road just enough?
I always try to rotate my helmet back on my head so that I can feel it hit my back and then look up the road with my eyes as much as possible. The scrunching of the neck rather than extending it just takes practice and muscle memory.
How often I have to really lift up my head and for how long is totally dependent on the course/conditions. The worse the road quality (i.e. the more shit in the road you need to avoid) and the less you know the course and the more crowded the road is with other athletes, the harder it is going to be to keep your head down. But that's true for everyone.
The goal should be to raise your head up as little as possible and as infrequently as possible -- only when absolutely necessary.
Re: What slowtwitcher has the best long course bike position [Fishbum]
[ In reply to ]
Fishbum wrote:
Billyk24 wrote:
How about this Michigan guy: Uhg!!!!!
Well he seems to have the open hip angle thing pretty well figured out.
Re: What slowtwitcher has the best long course bike position [Fleck]
[ In reply to ]
Fleck wrote:
-1 for bad head position -1 for tubulars
-1 for external cable routing
-1 for bib placement/attachment
-1 for no powermeter so no way to verify quality of position!
For the first - I was just acknowledging the photographer - a friend of mine who was in the Press Truck!
For the rest, it was 1993 - we had no idea what we were doing! :)
I had seen you riding back then at races (coming back the other way) and your head position was excellent, so you're off the hook on that. The clinchers back then were dead slow compared to the old school tubies, especially those with latex. No choice on external cable routing and no choice on power meter. Your only sin was number placement, but I think pinning it to your skinsuit was better than it flapping around on a race belt:
13 years after you, I think you beat Stadler (2006) on pretty well all points and this is still the Kona bike course record set up:
Last edited by:
devashish_paul: Aug 11, 17 19:28
Re: What slowtwitcher has the best long course bike position [zoom]
[ In reply to ]
zoom wrote:
Anyone showing up at and Ironman race in this day and age and lay down a sub-5 in that set up would be a legend on ST ... like the bike share guy who did IM France or the dude that went up the hill at Savageman on the big ring. However, since you did it back in the 1993, this can only be classified as, "eh ... cute set up" :) Fleck wrote:
Since it is #TBT, it's only fitting I load up an old image of me on the bike from 1993 at IRONMAN Hawaii. Rode just under 5 hours. What do you think? How could I have been better? Well, Fleck was already a local age group legend 10 years before ST even existed.
Keep in mind that Fleck was routinely running 3 hours flat off his 5 hour rides. What is most interesting seeing Fleck's picture from 1993 and pretty well every picture on this thread other than Chris Froome and a couple of others is that Fleck appears to be the only guy on this entire thread whose body composition was/is optimized for all three sports. Most of the pics on this thread, you guys are not seeing the forest from the trees. You're focused on a perfect position but hauling around 10-20 extra pounds and really way too fat to be fast long course guys. Those pounds are killing your aero drag and like a combined built in weight jacket while wearing neoprene insulation for the run. It's lose lose lose on all fronts.
By the way the Savageman Big Ring guy is a local former training partner named Greg Moore (local doc and fast olympic tri guy). He thought he was in his small ring and did not realize he was in the big. The guy also had/has Iliac artery endofibrosis and was still going fast up that Savageman climb. He said he was fine sitting up or standing but extended aero and his bad leg would shut off....so standing big ring at Savageman was a relief for him!
Re: What slowtwitcher has the best long course bike position [devashish_paul]
[ In reply to ]
not long course, but what I'm working with
Re: What slowtwitcher has the best long course bike position [jkhayc]
[ In reply to ]
Ok now it is uploaded:
http://www.timetriallingforum.co.uk/...elodrome/&page=2
Or have some fun with the attachment:
http://www.timetriallingforum.co.uk/...elodrome/&page=2
Or have some fun with the attachment:
Re: What slowtwitcher has the best long course bike position [kileyay]
[ In reply to ]
i have not tested head up vs head down but anecdotally when i ride i feel like i go much faster then second i bring my neck and head down.
2024: Bevoman, Galveston, Alcatraz, Marble Falls, Santa Cruz
2024: Bevoman, Galveston, Alcatraz, Marble Falls, Santa Cruz
Re: What slowtwitcher has the best long course bike position [jkhayc]
[ In reply to ]
don't have much from racing, but here's my final position coming out of the WT. I think I raced the rest of this year (2014?) in the castelli stealth top, and then for 2015 i got the pearl izumi suit.
----
@adamwfurlong
----
@adamwfurlong
Re: What slowtwitcher has the best long course bike position [BBLOEHR]
[ In reply to ]
Boardman agrees with you on the low head watt savings (Barcelona 1992). He always had head low in all set ups:
and before him Anquetil always had low head/head down:
But we already know this going downhill at high speed. Just get your head out of the wind and watch your speed go up (same input force assuming constant downhill grade...mgsin(theta) ).
Look at Fleck's position above. The moment that pic was taken is not his head position. When he is looking up the road his head is below his shoulders. We also know about this head position from every discipline of skiing....speed skiing, downhill, GS, slalom, Cross Country, ski jumping....get your head out of the wind. No need to figure out if that is faster or slower. It's been proven faster a zillion times in many sports through real world wind tunnel testing (skiers have the ultimate daily tunnel test). Skiers are always going to be on the forefront of what is aero fast in terms of upper body positions.
and before him Anquetil always had low head/head down:
But we already know this going downhill at high speed. Just get your head out of the wind and watch your speed go up (same input force assuming constant downhill grade...mgsin(theta) ).
Look at Fleck's position above. The moment that pic was taken is not his head position. When he is looking up the road his head is below his shoulders. We also know about this head position from every discipline of skiing....speed skiing, downhill, GS, slalom, Cross Country, ski jumping....get your head out of the wind. No need to figure out if that is faster or slower. It's been proven faster a zillion times in many sports through real world wind tunnel testing (skiers have the ultimate daily tunnel test). Skiers are always going to be on the forefront of what is aero fast in terms of upper body positions.
Re: What slowtwitcher has the best long course bike position [afurlong]
[ In reply to ]
Re: What slowtwitcher has the best long course bike position [Fishbum]
[ In reply to ]
You guys are all losers, the best Cda I have ever heard of is from a 60+ year old AG'er. And it doesn't matter what the yaw is or how strong the wind is blowing, his position is flawless, and he has the equipment and tactics to take advantage of whatever Mother Nature throws out there.
You can now close the thread, Kevin Moats....
You can now close the thread, Kevin Moats....
Re: What slowtwitcher has the best long course bike position [Fishbum]
[ In reply to ]
Just prior to IMC, still working on the head (and I will get that helmet fixed BBoehler ;) )
Brent
DFRU - Detta Family Racing Unit...the kids like it and we all get out and after it...gotta keep the fam involved!
Re: What slowtwitcher has the best long course bike position [stevej]
[ In reply to ]
in that pic i would guess he is setting the baseline, so the tunnel is not actually turned on and testing is not occurring.
Re: What slowtwitcher has the best long course bike position [jkhayc]
[ In reply to ]
Re: What slowtwitcher has the best long course bike position [Fishbum]
[ In reply to ]
Fleck and Stadler have proven those positions over 112 miles in Kona as has Mike Plumb (1989). I would say out of this thread, Fleck has the best one that was proven to be held over the course in Kona and he backed it up with a low 3 hour bike split. That's pretty well the gold standard on this thread that none of these guys have gotten to. If we get a position picture from Rob Gray from an Ultraman or Kona or Texas it will exceed Fleck's. These guys have proven to hold things in place for the duration and executed good runs after that too.
Fleck has announced many races and watches people wheel their bikes into transition with theoretically great positions and then been out there at mile 80 on the course announcing/watching with the majority of the FOP racers sitting bolt upright in beach cruiser mode.
Fleck has announced many races and watches people wheel their bikes into transition with theoretically great positions and then been out there at mile 80 on the course announcing/watching with the majority of the FOP racers sitting bolt upright in beach cruiser mode.
Last edited by:
devashish_paul: Aug 12, 17 11:31
Re: What slowtwitcher has the best long course bike position [kileyay]
[ In reply to ]
kileyay wrote:
Grill wrote:
Sure, it's likely more, but 25w wouldn't happen unless you have a Drop Dead Fred smashed in the fridge dome.Until one of us has some data, I'm going to leave this here:
data? here's some old frontal area stuff I did moons ago:
http://biketechreview.com/...tal-area-kw-position
http://biketechreview.com/...-and-tt-aerodynamics
a more comical one that made it on velonews:
http://www.biketechreview.com/...c/462-big-fat-helmet
later on I tested probably 125 or so folks in the tunnel of varying sizes and shapes at multiple betas...lots of them tested head standard vs head low configurations. Without querying my database, I'd say the head low vs std benefit is in the 3-4% cxa reduction range.
here's another video on head position folks might find helpful (turn the volume up):
=================
Kraig Willett
http://www.biketechreview.com - check out our reduced report pricing
=================
Re: What slowtwitcher has the best long course bike position [BikeTechReview]
[ In reply to ]
this is good info, and i've fortunately seen some of your attached links already as you've linked to them in the past. but you and Grill are both ignoring the fact that MOST long course triathletes have - quite simply - abysmal head positions. so while a competent TT'er/TriNerd may have small variance between what they/you consider "good" head position and "great" head position, the fact remains that most long course triathletes do not.
Re: What slowtwitcher has the best long course bike position [afurlong]
[ In reply to ]
8/10
-1 for mis-matched kit
-1 for rear disc
-10 for anything wattie
-1 for mis-matched kit
-1 for rear disc
-10 for anything wattie
Re: What slowtwitcher has the best long course bike position [jkhayc]
[ In reply to ]
jkhayc wrote:
this is good info, and i've fortunately seen some of your attached links already as you've linked to them in the past. but you and Grill are both ignoring the fact that MOST long course triathletes have - quite simply - abysmal head positions. so while a competent TT'er/TriNerd may have small variance between what they/you consider "good" head position and "great" head position, the fact remains that most long course triathletes do not.And what you're forgetting is that if their positions are so bad as to have the dome ding them in the region of 25w, then no shrug on the planet is going to save them that while also allowing a view of anything other than their bottom bracket. A position that isn't feasible isn't one that merits discussion.
Re: What slowtwitcher has the best long course bike position [Grill]
[ In reply to ]
i'm not forgetting shit, you're just being obtuse. i didn't suggest 25w, my number was 15. And a GOOD head position vs. a BAD head position on someone with a position anywhere on the spectrum from .2 to .3, it is realistic to suggest that 15w is a reasonable number of potential disparity.
if THIS head position change is worth ~8w @ 25mph (from a good, sustainable long course head position to a TT of <20min (for me anyway) head position)...then again, I think many/most long course triathletes are leaving a decent amount of drag on the table with regard to their head position. And yet they remain focused on equipment, multiple retul fits, tires, etc. When a good head position is free and merely takes practice.
if THIS head position change is worth ~8w @ 25mph (from a good, sustainable long course head position to a TT of <20min (for me anyway) head position)...then again, I think many/most long course triathletes are leaving a decent amount of drag on the table with regard to their head position. And yet they remain focused on equipment, multiple retul fits, tires, etc. When a good head position is free and merely takes practice.
Re: What slowtwitcher has the best long course bike position [jkhayc]
[ In reply to ]
I think that most in this thread forget that most mop and bop don't give a shit about any of this. They participate just to finish for themselves and just enjoy the sport. Now the fop and ST people on here participating are the ones that do pay attention to these facts and I would suggest are not as bad as most say here. These are the people getting fit by professionals and obsessing over the small details.
Re: What slowtwitcher has the best long course bike position [jkhayc]
[ In reply to ]
You said 25w. Even then, it would be helmet dependent as some I've tested are near parity with and without a shrug.
You see 8w at 25mph, I see half that at 30mph.
I agree that position is key, but for many it's much easier to pick up the same savings with tyre or bar choice.
So you're happy with your position, great. Now grab the easy watts left on the table with new wheels and tyres. ;)
You see 8w at 25mph, I see half that at 30mph.
I agree that position is key, but for many it's much easier to pick up the same savings with tyre or bar choice.
So you're happy with your position, great. Now grab the easy watts left on the table with new wheels and tyres. ;)
Re: What slowtwitcher has the best long course bike position [Fishbum]
[ In reply to ]
Fishbum wrote:
Which one of us has the best bike position for either 70.3 or 140.6. narrowing it down to those two should help eliminate the TT guys.And below is a better side shot. I am sure it can be improved upon, but waiting to get in the tunnel or on the track to really tweak stuff, for now it goes pretty fast, and as the saying goes "if it ain't broke, don't fix it".
-Brad Williams
Website | Twitter: @BW_Tri |Instagram: @BW_Tri | Strava | Co-Founder & Coach at: KIS Coaching
Partnered with: Zoot Sports | Precision Fuel &Hydration | ISM
Re: What slowtwitcher has the best long course bike position [@BW_Tri]
[ In reply to ]
Thank you for getting back on topic. What is the rest of your fit information stack reach stem length Etc
Re: What slowtwitcher has the best long course bike position [kileyay]
[ In reply to ]
kileyay wrote:
Grill wrote:
kileyay wrote:
jkhayc wrote:
head position is probably the thing most left on the table by most athletes. with everything else being the same, i wouldn't be surprised if the delta from a bad head position to a really good one is ~15w.x1000
This really can't be overstated. When I'm riding 25+ miles per hour, I swear I can feel the drag go down from head popped up to head turtled and tucked. I have been meaning to Chung test this, but I'll bet it's more like 25 watts
More like <5w depending on helmet.
That may be true for you. But I would make a serious bet that my head popped up in the air vs. my best turtle is a much more meaningful difference.
In the tunnel, head full up to full turtle was 10w at 40kph/25mph for me.
Re: What slowtwitcher has the best long course bike position [Fishbum]
[ In reply to ]
Stack- 130mm
Reach (tip of ISM to rear of pads)- 510mm
Reach to tip of Extensions from tip of saddle- 865mm
Seat Height- 786mm (8cm behind nose to crank center)
Set Back- +14mm
Stem- Aduro bar, not sure what it is......
Anything else?
-Brad Williams
Website | Twitter: @BW_Tri |Instagram: @BW_Tri | Strava | Co-Founder & Coach at: KIS Coaching
Partnered with: Zoot Sports | Precision Fuel &Hydration | ISM
Reach (tip of ISM to rear of pads)- 510mm
Reach to tip of Extensions from tip of saddle- 865mm
Seat Height- 786mm (8cm behind nose to crank center)
Set Back- +14mm
Stem- Aduro bar, not sure what it is......
Anything else?
-Brad Williams
Website | Twitter: @BW_Tri |Instagram: @BW_Tri | Strava | Co-Founder & Coach at: KIS Coaching
Partnered with: Zoot Sports | Precision Fuel &Hydration | ISM
Re: What slowtwitcher has the best long course bike position [BMANX]
[ In reply to ]
That test was from 2013. What were fastest tires and wheels back then?
Also, please stop putting words in my mouth. 15w is a reasonable number, and that is what I suggested was on the table. You're welcome to go back and find where you first failed at reading comprehension.
Also, please stop putting words in my mouth. 15w is a reasonable number, and that is what I suggested was on the table. You're welcome to go back and find where you first failed at reading comprehension.
Re: What slowtwitcher has the best long course bike position [@BW_Tri]
[ In reply to ]
@BW_Tri wrote:
Stack- 130mm Reach (tip of ISM to rear of pads)- 510mm
Reach to tip of Extensions from tip of saddle- 865mm
Seat Height- 786mm (8cm behind nose to crank center)
Set Back- +14mm
Stem- Aduro bar, not sure what it is......
Anything else?
Your height and bike size
Re: What slowtwitcher has the best long course bike position [Fishbum]
[ In reply to ]
Fishbum wrote:
@BW_Tri wrote:
Stack- 130mm Reach (tip of ISM to rear of pads)- 510mm
Reach to tip of Extensions from tip of saddle- 865mm
Seat Height- 786mm (8cm behind nose to crank center)
Set Back- +14mm
Stem- Aduro bar, not sure what it is......
Anything else?
Your height and bike size
6'1" and 56. Could possibly go to a 58 and use the "lower" P5 bar rather than the V bar on the 56, but I like how I have it setup and I like having the drop from the pads to the base bar as well.
-Brad Williams
Website | Twitter: @BW_Tri |Instagram: @BW_Tri | Strava | Co-Founder & Coach at: KIS Coaching
Partnered with: Zoot Sports | Precision Fuel &Hydration | ISM
Re: What slowtwitcher has the best long course bike position [jkhayc]
[ In reply to ]
Wasn't those. ;)
You, Kiley, 15w, 25w, whatevs. Trying to get someone to try and hold a shrug for a long course in a penny-farthingesque position is a fool's errand.
You, Kiley, 15w, 25w, whatevs. Trying to get someone to try and hold a shrug for a long course in a penny-farthingesque position is a fool's errand.
Re: What slowtwitcher has the best long course bike position [jkhayc]
[ In reply to ]
Fix my head position. I might try and go a little lower on the front for my next full, but not sure. I rode 4:50 off of 196 watts at santa rosa and still ran pretty close to what I think my potential on the day was (3:06ish) so I'm not sure how much there is to improve on. The only thing I'm sure I'm changing is that kit and trying to stay in aero more consistently
Re: What slowtwitcher has the best long course bike position [peace242000]
[ In reply to ]
For those with super low head positions; I am getting better. I definitely have the turtle thing going on
But I find when I get really low and only look 10 ft in front of the tyre it feels a bit disorienting after a while
Its certainly not a natural position for me to be that low
But I find when I get really low and only look 10 ft in front of the tyre it feels a bit disorienting after a while
Its certainly not a natural position for me to be that low
Re: What slowtwitcher has the best long course bike position [jkhayc]
[ In reply to ]
jkhayc wrote:
but you and Grill are both ignoring the fact that MOST long course triathletes have - quite simply - abysmal head positions.A significant (maybe even majority?) chunk of my tunnel experience is with long course triathletes (ag'ers and pros) who had a cxa near, or over, 0.30 at beta=0. Their head positions were typical of what one would expect at that cxa.
My observation is that finding a position that enables a relaxed low head position with adequate vision is where it's at. If i can see your chin, you're leaving something aerodynamically on the table. I'd agree with others: head position=free speed.
=================
Kraig Willett
http://www.biketechreview.com - check out our reduced report pricing
=================
Re: What slowtwitcher has the best long course bike position [devashish_paul]
[ In reply to ]
devashish_paul wrote:
Fleck and Stadler have proven those positions over 112 miles in Kona as has Mike Plumb (1989). I would say out of this thread, Fleck has the best one that was proven to be held over the course in Kona and he backed it up with a low 3 hour bike split. That's pretty well the gold standard on this thread that none of these guys have gotten to. If we get a position picture from Rob Gray from an Ultraman or Kona or Texas it will exceed Fleck's. These guys have proven to hold things in place for the duration and executed good runs after that too. Fleck has announced many races and watches people wheel their bikes into transition with theoretically great positions and then been out there at mile 80 on the course announcing/watching with the majority of the FOP racers sitting bolt upright in beach cruiser mode.
See if you can find a pic of Steve Johnson, Darkhorse Tri here on ST. The 2014 IMAZ pics are what I wish my bike position could be. His bike set up is exceptional, his bike splits rival the top amateurs, and he routinely lays down a 3:0X run to finish up his races. He must be doing something right. I hope he doesn't mind me nominating him for best long course bike position.
----------------------------
Jason
None of the secrets of success will work unless you do.
Re: What slowtwitcher has the best long course bike position [stevej]
[ In reply to ]
i got that comment a couple times. it's interesting, because the picture definitely agrees with your sentiment, but it's never been something i've felt, or had cause to believe during my days playing triathlon.
after further re-thinking of an event that happened 3+ years ago, i am reminded of the fact that the a2 guys calibrate the WT on every run - thus - this is a static photo, as confirmed by the logos on the wheels, lacking photo blur. so, this is me purposefully putting my left foot down as vertical at 6:00 as possible (and likely focusing on keeping my heel down), but not indicative of my pedal stroke, which factors in a toe-down pedal similar to most folks.
but yes, you're right, based on the picture.
----
@adamwfurlong
after further re-thinking of an event that happened 3+ years ago, i am reminded of the fact that the a2 guys calibrate the WT on every run - thus - this is a static photo, as confirmed by the logos on the wheels, lacking photo blur. so, this is me purposefully putting my left foot down as vertical at 6:00 as possible (and likely focusing on keeping my heel down), but not indicative of my pedal stroke, which factors in a toe-down pedal similar to most folks.
but yes, you're right, based on the picture.
----
@adamwfurlong
Re: What slowtwitcher has the best long course bike position [Fishbum]
[ In reply to ]
How many of these guys could hold that position for 55 or 110 miles
The picture of me is the position I rode in probably 80% - 90% of the time in triathlon races - even 112 miles of an IRONMAN bike leg. The time not in the aero position was steeper climbing, in and out of turns and more aggressive accelerating.
On the IRONMAN Hawaii course - you ride probably 90% or more in the aero position. The only time you really need to get out of the saddle is the climb up Palani, a couple of spots on the long climb up to Hawi, and then the climb back up to the Queen K from Kawihae. Even on these last two, it more just to change position and pull in some different muscle groups, and change the muscle loading a bit.
It was a comfortable position for me. It was optimized, by a bit of trial and error, and performance. We had no power-meters, and no access to wind tunnels!
Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog
The picture of me is the position I rode in probably 80% - 90% of the time in triathlon races - even 112 miles of an IRONMAN bike leg. The time not in the aero position was steeper climbing, in and out of turns and more aggressive accelerating.
On the IRONMAN Hawaii course - you ride probably 90% or more in the aero position. The only time you really need to get out of the saddle is the climb up Palani, a couple of spots on the long climb up to Hawi, and then the climb back up to the Queen K from Kawihae. Even on these last two, it more just to change position and pull in some different muscle groups, and change the muscle loading a bit.
It was a comfortable position for me. It was optimized, by a bit of trial and error, and performance. We had no power-meters, and no access to wind tunnels!
Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog
Re: What slowtwitcher has the best long course bike position [Mike Plumb]
[ In reply to ]
Funny, in 1989 I hadn't even heard of "Kona" or the Hawaii Ironman--not for another 4 or 5 years until I heard of it. I had a buddy who was talking about this crazy race in Hawaii where they these stupid-arse long distances. Couldn't believe people had done stuff like that..little did I know I'd be on the starting line 2 years later doing that same stupid arse stuff he was talking about & he was my room mate for the race--where he met his wife while partying the week before the race.
Re: What slowtwitcher has the best long course bike position [wannabefaster]
[ In reply to ]
wannabefaster wrote:
devashish_paul wrote:
Fleck and Stadler have proven those positions over 112 miles in Kona as has Mike Plumb (1989). I would say out of this thread, Fleck has the best one that was proven to be held over the course in Kona and he backed it up with a low 3 hour bike split. That's pretty well the gold standard on this thread that none of these guys have gotten to. If we get a position picture from Rob Gray from an Ultraman or Kona or Texas it will exceed Fleck's. These guys have proven to hold things in place for the duration and executed good runs after that too. Fleck has announced many races and watches people wheel their bikes into transition with theoretically great positions and then been out there at mile 80 on the course announcing/watching with the majority of the FOP racers sitting bolt upright in beach cruiser mode.
See if you can find a pic of Steve Johnson, Darkhorse Tri here on ST. The 2014 IMAZ pics are what I wish my bike position could be. His bike set up is exceptional, his bike splits rival the top amateurs, and he routinely lays down a 3:0X run to finish up his races. He must be doing something right. I hope he doesn't mind me nominating him for best long course bike position.
http://forum.slowtwitch.com/...ce%20report#p6162799
The pics are missing but the thread supports my hypothesis ;-)
----------------------------
Jason
None of the secrets of success will work unless you do.
Re: What slowtwitcher has the best long course bike position [jkhayc]
[ In reply to ]
jkhayc wrote:
15w is conservative. 25w is generous.I'd like to pause for a moment to comment that watts is a meaningless metric for aero drag unless we have the speed. Is it 20mph, 25mph, 30mph? Or something else?
Why can't we just use CdA instead?
Re: What slowtwitcher has the best long course bike position [Sean H]
[ In reply to ]
So I have a super random question. You have a treadmill with russian labels on it?
Re: What slowtwitcher has the best long course bike position [mkserge]
[ In reply to ]
No, but the Radisson Blu at Moscow Sheremetyevo Airport does tho.
Re: What slowtwitcher has the best long course bike position [Sean H]
[ In reply to ]
Ok, that explains it :-)
Re: What slowtwitcher has the best long course bike position [mkserge]
[ In reply to ]
lol
Re: What slowtwitcher has the best long course bike position [Fishbum]
[ In reply to ]
Gonna try to get my ass to a velodrome before next season, I did some changes (less drop, narrower, tilted bars) that seamed to make me faster at home but slower race times this year has disappointed me.
Endurance coach | Physiotherapist (primary care) | Bikefitter | Swede
Endurance coach | Physiotherapist (primary care) | Bikefitter | Swede
Re: What slowtwitcher has the best long course bike position [Fishbum]
[ In reply to ]
Fishbum wrote:
Which one of us has the best bike position for either 70.3 or 140.6. narrowing it down to those two should help eliminate the TT guys.A little late to the party. Not the best or fastest but its comfortable.
Re: What slowtwitcher has the best long course bike position [Fishbum]
[ In reply to ]
I ran off this after 75 miles rides on a few occasions, only raced it i n OD and 40ks. It was mid 29mph on 350 watts.
Re: What slowtwitcher has the best long course bike position [FindinFreestyle]
[ In reply to ]
Re: What slowtwitcher has the best long course bike position [luarca]
[ In reply to ]
A lot of people are wearing the aero head. Hmm.
Re: What slowtwitcher has the best long course bike position [Fishbum]
[ In reply to ]
me. .22 in the A2 wind tunnel at 6'2", 180
Eric Reid AeroFit | Instagram Portfolio
Aerodynamic Retul Bike Fitting
“You are experiencing the criminal coverup of a foreign backed fascist hostile takeover of a mafia shakedown of an authoritarian religious slow motion coup. Persuade people to vote for Democracy.”
Fishbum wrote:
Which one of us has the best bike position for either 70.3 or 140.6. narrowing it down to those two should help eliminate the TT guys.Eric Reid AeroFit | Instagram Portfolio
Aerodynamic Retul Bike Fitting
“You are experiencing the criminal coverup of a foreign backed fascist hostile takeover of a mafia shakedown of an authoritarian religious slow motion coup. Persuade people to vote for Democracy.”
Re: What slowtwitcher has the best long course bike position [mortysct]
[ In reply to ]
mortysct wrote:
Gonna try to get my ass to a velodrome before next season, I did some changes (less drop, narrower, tilted bars) that seamed to make me faster at home but slower race times this year has disappointed me. 8.5/10
-.5 for helmet ugliness
-2 for ponytail
+1 for speedo + short sleeve aero top
Re: What slowtwitcher has the best long course bike position [FindinFreestyle]
[ In reply to ]
FindinFreestyle wrote:
I ran off this after 75 miles rides on a few occasions, only raced it i n OD and 40ks. It was mid 29mph on 350 watts.3/10
-6 for no side profile shot
Re: What slowtwitcher has the best long course bike position [luarca]
[ In reply to ]
luarca wrote:
Trying to... 4h31 in 177.5 km in Vitoria (Spain) with 230w for 78 kg8/10
- 1 for having a white disc cover
- 1 for head position
-1 for having a dimond
+1 for filtering it to black and white for more dramatic effect
Re: What slowtwitcher has the best long course bike position [ericMPro]
[ In reply to ]
ericMPro wrote:
me. .22 in the A2 wind tunnel at 6'2", 180 Fishbum wrote:
Which one of us has the best bike position for either 70.3 or 140.6. narrowing it down to those two should help eliminate the TT guys.0/10
-10 for, in spite of only posting/having pictures of yourself in the wind tunnel, not having a side profile shot
Re: What slowtwitcher has the best long course bike position [jkhayc]
[ In reply to ]
oooh! I want a score!
-------------
Ed O'Malley
www.VeloVetta.com
Founder of VeloVetta Cycling Shoes
Instagram • Facebook
-------------
Ed O'Malley
www.VeloVetta.com
Founder of VeloVetta Cycling Shoes
Instagram • Facebook
Re: What slowtwitcher has the best long course bike position [jkhayc]
[ In reply to ]
jkhayc wrote:
mortysct wrote:
Gonna try to get my ass to a velodrome before next season, I did some changes (less drop, narrower, tilted bars) that seamed to make me faster at home but slower race times this year has disappointed me. 8.5/10
-.5 for helmet ugliness
-2 for ponytail
+1 for speedo + short sleeve aero top
Hmmm, I give him a +2 for not being so self conscious that he wears that helmet. Those POCs look like someone stuck a Manta Ray on your head, nevermind wearing the banana hammock. This guy is pretty much giving the fashion police the finger.
Re: What slowtwitcher has the best long course bike position [BBLOEHR]
[ In reply to ]
BBLOEHR wrote:
ahhchon wrote:
BBLOEHR wrote:
I am going to 165 and re look at seat position this winter when I get on a new bike. Always trying to get better and find room for improvement.what could you possibly be buying that is a significant upgrade from your current setup. just because you're a dentist, doesn't mean you have to feed the stereotype... lol
As Steve said I am interested to try 165 cranks, which is debatable if it will help or not, but I want to try at least. My rear bottle placement is not ideal, but with that saddle i am locked into that current bottle placement. Will try a Dash saddle in 2018. Frame still looking at the Felt option, have had some people tell me that its a longer top tube but I have not looked that far into it yet not even really sure if a longer top tube I would need just considering all options.
I think I also benefit from being able to fit into a small helmet when a lot of guys are stuck with a bigger brain and having to go with a med or large.
you fit into a small aerohead? i'm like 8 inches shorter than you and i have to wear a medium.. i hate having long hair for races!
idk compared to the trek, but the felt ia has a longer top tube than my parlee. going to 165 will allow you to raise your saddle 2.5cm, which in turn will lengthen your top tube.
dash saddle is awesome. i'm guessing you'll get the one with the built in bottle holder, cus you're a dentist ;-)
Re: What slowtwitcher has the best long course bike position [jkhayc]
[ In reply to ]
Not a cover, but a Hed Jet Disc Black
Re: What slowtwitcher has the best long course bike position [RowToTri]
[ In reply to ]
8/10
-1 for your socks
-1 for not quite enough reach
-1 for your socks
-1 for not quite enough reach
Re: What slowtwitcher has the best long course bike position [jkhayc]
[ In reply to ]
jkhayc wrote:
devashish_paul wrote:
My money is on Rob Gray. That guy holds just as aero a position as all these photoshop queens on this thread and does it for an entire Ultraman bike leg for 2 days (OK OK, you guys did some of these positions in real life but not UM). Sorry guys, but once you can hold Rob's position for that, long you're in the running to dethrone him. End of thread.
Sorry Dev, not sure where you're getting that rob gray is aero.
that bike position blows.
but I heard that getting your head low makes you more aero - my head is almost as low as my seat in that pic - it has to be fast
____________________________________
Are you ready to do an Ultraman? | How I calculate Ironman race fueling | Strength Training for Athletes |
Re: What slowtwitcher has the best long course bike position [jkhayc]
[ In reply to ]
Oh yeah, you're right.... I should definitely have worn my argyle socks with humping bunnies. Thanks for the tip!
-------------
Ed O'Malley
www.VeloVetta.com
Founder of VeloVetta Cycling Shoes
Instagram • Facebook
-------------
Ed O'Malley
www.VeloVetta.com
Founder of VeloVetta Cycling Shoes
Instagram • Facebook
Re: What slowtwitcher has the best long course bike position [jkhayc]
[ In reply to ]
Re: What slowtwitcher has the best long course bike position [ffmedic84]
[ In reply to ]
ffmedic84 wrote:
Fishbum wrote:
Which one of us has the best bike position for either 70.3 or 140.6. narrowing it down to those two should help eliminate the TT guys.A little late to the party. Not the best or fastest but its comfortable.
6/10
-1 for head position
-1 for using water bottles at all
- 1 for steepness of aero position
- 2 for humblebrag kona pic
+ 1 for p5
Re: What slowtwitcher has the best long course bike position [ffmedic84]
[ In reply to ]
I'm no expert.
-3 for helmet/ head position
+1 for a cool bike
+1 for getting criticized by the person who started the thread but hasn't put any pictures of himself up.
9/10
-3 for helmet/ head position
+1 for a cool bike
+1 for getting criticized by the person who started the thread but hasn't put any pictures of himself up.
9/10
Re: What slowtwitcher has the best long course bike position [jkhayc]
[ In reply to ]
Ha only Finisher Pics I've bought in the last few years.
What do you mean by steepness of aero position?
What do you mean by steepness of aero position?
Re: What slowtwitcher has the best long course bike position [ffmedic84]
[ In reply to ]
Re: What slowtwitcher has the best long course bike position [Fishbum]
[ In reply to ]
what extensions are you using?
Because of my back issues I am needing to raise my position and go narrower. I just have to sort out extensions and I believe you are running the ZIPP 110's??
Because of my back issues I am needing to raise my position and go narrower. I just have to sort out extensions and I believe you are running the ZIPP 110's??
Re: What slowtwitcher has the best long course bike position [BMANX]
[ In reply to ]
Correct. Zipp Evo 110 plus a 13 degree pitch.
Re: What slowtwitcher has the best long course bike position [ahhchon]
[ In reply to ]
Hell Yea I would get the dash saddle with the water bottle holder, its the most expensive right????? Only buy the most expensive it must be the best?
Yes i fit into a small helmet = small brain = takes me a long time to process information.
This is my offseason project when once I decided when the offseason starts.
2024: Bevoman, Galveston, Alcatraz, Marble Falls, Santa Cruz
Yes i fit into a small helmet = small brain = takes me a long time to process information.
This is my offseason project when once I decided when the offseason starts.
2024: Bevoman, Galveston, Alcatraz, Marble Falls, Santa Cruz
Re: What slowtwitcher has the best long course bike position [grumpier.mike]
[ In reply to ]
grumpier.mike wrote:
jkhayc wrote:
mortysct wrote:
Gonna try to get my ass to a velodrome before next season, I did some changes (less drop, narrower, tilted bars) that seamed to make me faster at home but slower race times this year has disappointed me. 8.5/10
-.5 for helmet ugliness
-2 for ponytail
+1 for speedo + short sleeve aero top
Hmmm, I give him a +2 for not being so self conscious that he wears that helmet. Those POCs look like someone stuck a Manta Ray on your head, nevermind wearing the banana hammock. This guy is pretty much giving the fashion police the finger.
Except for the helmet and bike I could have sworn this was Faris!
Certainly wins the Retro Category so far.. but that cheeps-cake should buy that pic.
Re: What slowtwitcher has the best long course bike position [windschatten]
[ In reply to ]
Thanks! I might buy the pic if they have some decent sale soon. 60-70€ for a set of pics where like 4-5 is even useable is too much. They took 80% of the bike pics in the sharp turns, so you sit up and do a weird tongue-thingie in every darn pic.
Endurance coach | Physiotherapist (primary care) | Bikefitter | Swede
Endurance coach | Physiotherapist (primary care) | Bikefitter | Swede
Re: What slowtwitcher has the best long course bike position [mortysct]
[ In reply to ]
As always late for such a nice party!
http://tpks.ws/TdR3K - my Kona morning ride
http://tpks.ws/TdR3K - my Kona morning ride
Re: What slowtwitcher has the best long course bike position [jkhayc]
[ In reply to ]
Posting purely to see how jkhayc scores my photo taken through a narrow door frame, off horizontal, not quite from the side, not showing the whole bike, wearing board shorts and flip flops and with a load of crap on my garage shelves.
On the other hand, I go really fast off pathetic watts.
On the other hand, I go really fast off pathetic watts.
Re: What slowtwitcher has the best long course bike position [michalp]
[ In reply to ]
michalp wrote:
As always late for such a nice party! http://tpks.ws/TdR3K - my Kona morning ride
0/10
buy the damn pictures
Re: What slowtwitcher has the best long course bike position [jkhayc]
[ In reply to ]
you need to start your own thread now... "The Haycraft rating thread"
My Blog - http://leegoocrap.blogspot.com
My Blog - http://leegoocrap.blogspot.com
Re: What slowtwitcher has the best long course bike position [knighty76]
[ In reply to ]
-3 for that $30 plastic shelving
-2 for being in the small chainring, ever
-1 for likely showing buttcrack
-1 for un-aero shoe choice
-1 for rear wheel choice
-2 for even owning an elliptical
+9 for position, head position, and bike/equipment choices
-2 for being in the small chainring, ever
-1 for likely showing buttcrack
-1 for un-aero shoe choice
-1 for rear wheel choice
-2 for even owning an elliptical
+9 for position, head position, and bike/equipment choices
Re: What slowtwitcher has the best long course bike position [jkhayc]
[ In reply to ]
Re: What slowtwitcher has the best long course bike position [jrielley]
[ In reply to ]
Whomever designed that helmet should be shot for crimes against fashion.
Swimming Workout of the Day:
Favourite Swim Sets:
2020 National Masters Champion - M50-54 - 50m Butterfly
Swimming Workout of the Day:
Favourite Swim Sets:
2020 National Masters Champion - M50-54 - 50m Butterfly
Re: What slowtwitcher has the best long course bike position [JasoninHalifax]
[ In reply to ]
Re: What slowtwitcher has the best long course bike position [JasoninHalifax]
[ In reply to ]
Based on this thread, I’m starting to wonder whether anyone wears anything else.
Scott
Scott
Re: What slowtwitcher has the best long course bike position [jrielley]
[ In reply to ]
-4 for photo pirating
-1 for anything wattie ink related
-2 for old ass bike
-.5 for head position
-2.5 for not having enough armpad reach
+8 for going real fast on an old ass bike
-1 for anything wattie ink related
-2 for old ass bike
-.5 for head position
-2.5 for not having enough armpad reach
+8 for going real fast on an old ass bike
Re: What slowtwitcher has the best long course bike position [ffmedic84]
[ In reply to ]
you ride very steep without the accompanying reach to actually get you long and low. probably leaving watts on the table.
Re: What slowtwitcher has the best long course bike position [Fishbum]
[ In reply to ]
-8 for helmet choice
-2 for water bottle in your back tri top pocket
-1 for too many spokes in your front wheel
+9 for moto drafting off a Tahoe
-2 for water bottle in your back tri top pocket
-1 for too many spokes in your front wheel
+9 for moto drafting off a Tahoe
[signature wrote:
Re: What slowtwitcher has the best long course bike position [jkhayc]
[ In reply to ]
Re: What slowtwitcher has the best long course bike position [jkhayc]
[ In reply to ]
Are you just ignoring the layups at this point? (the rudy helmet)
Re: What slowtwitcher has the best long course bike position [Sean H]
[ In reply to ]
haha, that ugly ass not-aeroAF horrifying excuse for an aero helmet netted fishbum minus 8!
Re: What slowtwitcher has the best long course bike position [jkhayc]
[ In reply to ]
Not sure how it would work for 56 or 112 but it was fine for ~90 second trainer session.
-1 for the small ring...so 9/10?
-1 for the small ring...so 9/10?
Re: What slowtwitcher has the best long course bike position [jkhayc]
[ In reply to ]
Lol how did I miss that?
Re: What slowtwitcher has the best long course bike position [jkhayc]
[ In reply to ]
I agree with everything said. I'm going to try the aerohead helmet and my water bottle cage accepting ejecting bottles at that race so I just started stuffing them in my tri top. And I was drafting off everything I can get behind!!!!!!đźŽ
Re: What slowtwitcher has the best long course bike position [gregn]
[ In reply to ]
- 8 for helmet choice
-4 for amount of body hair exposed
-3 for living in a place that cold
+4 for head position
+ 2 for old ass bike and owning that shit
+10 for not giving a f***
1/10 ;)
-4 for amount of body hair exposed
-3 for living in a place that cold
+4 for head position
+ 2 for old ass bike and owning that shit
+10 for not giving a f***
1/10 ;)
Re: What slowtwitcher has the best long course bike position [jkhayc]
[ In reply to ]
Ok, I can’t take it anymore and need my score.
Last edited by:
GreatScott: Oct 23, 17 21:49
Re: What slowtwitcher has the best long course bike position [jkhayc]
[ In reply to ]
Re: What slowtwitcher has the best long course bike position [GreatScott]
[ In reply to ]
Re: What slowtwitcher has the best long course bike position [Fishbum]
[ In reply to ]
Well, my pic is better than yours, so I should get some points there.
I have issues, but wasn’t expecting spokes to be one of them! Don’t go poking the bear and trying to lower my score just to make yourself feel better.
Edit; brags about pic, then loses points for the pic itself. James doesn’t miss a thing!
Scott
I have issues, but wasn’t expecting spokes to be one of them! Don’t go poking the bear and trying to lower my score just to make yourself feel better.
Edit; brags about pic, then loses points for the pic itself. James doesn’t miss a thing!
Scott
Last edited by:
GreatScott: Oct 24, 17 7:02
Re: What slowtwitcher has the best long course bike position [GreatScott]
[ In reply to ]
-1 for head position
-1 for cheap wheels
-1 for having your magura levers not be dead parallel with ground
-3 , 1 for each spacer under your stem
-1 for clearly being in a time trial and posting in a long course bike position thread
+ 4 for overall position
-1 for cheap wheels
-1 for having your magura levers not be dead parallel with ground
-3 , 1 for each spacer under your stem
-1 for clearly being in a time trial and posting in a long course bike position thread
+ 4 for overall position
Re: What slowtwitcher has the best long course bike position [asellerg]
[ In reply to ]
-2 for head position (i'm being conservative on this one)
-1 for trying too hard to match everything
+1 for quality of picture you post
-1 for trying too hard to match everything
+1 for quality of picture you post
Re: What slowtwitcher has the best long course bike position [jkhayc]
[ In reply to ]
James, not being snarky, just can't remember... have you ever done an Ironman? I know your 70.3 palmares.
Your position of course looks great for 180km
Eric Reid AeroFit | Instagram Portfolio
Aerodynamic Retul Bike Fitting
“You are experiencing the criminal coverup of a foreign backed fascist hostile takeover of a mafia shakedown of an authoritarian religious slow motion coup. Persuade people to vote for Democracy.”
Your position of course looks great for 180km
Eric Reid AeroFit | Instagram Portfolio
Aerodynamic Retul Bike Fitting
“You are experiencing the criminal coverup of a foreign backed fascist hostile takeover of a mafia shakedown of an authoritarian religious slow motion coup. Persuade people to vote for Democracy.”
Re: What slowtwitcher has the best long course bike position [jkhayc]
[ In reply to ]
Straw does not match, just saying.
2024: Bevoman, Galveston, Alcatraz, Marble Falls, Santa Cruz
2024: Bevoman, Galveston, Alcatraz, Marble Falls, Santa Cruz
Re: What slowtwitcher has the best long course bike position [ericMPro]
[ In reply to ]
yes, finished 1 (2009) and DNF'd 3. (2010, 2013, 2015). Unfortunately I am mentally weak.
Re: What slowtwitcher has the best long course bike position [jkhayc]
[ In reply to ]
You've made this thread.
Now we need a thread on how to develop proper head position. A priory for me, and others as well.
Scott
Now we need a thread on how to develop proper head position. A priory for me, and others as well.
Scott
Re: What slowtwitcher has the best long course bike position [jkhayc]
[ In reply to ]
i'm sure if you put it all together you'd be smoking fast.
Eric Reid AeroFit | Instagram Portfolio
Aerodynamic Retul Bike Fitting
“You are experiencing the criminal coverup of a foreign backed fascist hostile takeover of a mafia shakedown of an authoritarian religious slow motion coup. Persuade people to vote for Democracy.”
jkhayc wrote:
yes, finished 1 (2009) and DNF'd 3. (2010, 2013, 2015). Unfortunately I am mentally weak.Eric Reid AeroFit | Instagram Portfolio
Aerodynamic Retul Bike Fitting
“You are experiencing the criminal coverup of a foreign backed fascist hostile takeover of a mafia shakedown of an authoritarian religious slow motion coup. Persuade people to vote for Democracy.”
Re: What slowtwitcher has the best long course bike position [GreatScott]
[ In reply to ]
ok mine too then.
Re: What slowtwitcher has the best long course bike position [Francois]
[ In reply to ]
-1 saddle going up ass (you old school cyclists are crazy with your saddle choices)
-1 for rear skewer lack of aeroness
-3 for white kit
-1 for "roadie-ish" aero position (super compact, tight hip angle, relatively slacker, lack of hip roll)
+ 4 for still punching a really small hole in the air
-1 for rear skewer lack of aeroness
-3 for white kit
-1 for "roadie-ish" aero position (super compact, tight hip angle, relatively slacker, lack of hip roll)
+ 4 for still punching a really small hole in the air
Re: What slowtwitcher has the best long course bike position [Francois]
[ In reply to ]
Does everyone agree that the old P3 is still one of the best bikes out there?
Re: What slowtwitcher has the best long course bike position [Fishbum]
[ In reply to ]
Everyone agrees. EOD
Re: What slowtwitcher has the best long course bike position [Fishbum]
[ In reply to ]
It's very, very fast. Only downside is lack of compatibility with certain integrated nutrition, wires, and wider wheels/tires. I don't have a side shot of this, but the watts/cda was pretty good.
https://www.strava.com/activities/984866945
https://www.strava.com/activities/984866945
Re: What slowtwitcher has the best long course bike position [Francois]
[ In reply to ]
EOD?
Re: What slowtwitcher has the best long course bike position [jkhayc]
[ In reply to ]
jkhayc wrote:
+ 4 for still punching a really small hole in the airThats' because F is really short....
Swimming Workout of the Day:
Favourite Swim Sets:
2020 National Masters Champion - M50-54 - 50m Butterfly
Re: What slowtwitcher has the best long course bike position [jkhayc]
[ In reply to ]
I'm next!
Re: What slowtwitcher has the best long course bike position [P McCatty]
[ In reply to ]
I call b******* on any score he gets right away. We all had to be judged from a 90 degree angle. He's cheating.LOL.
Re: What slowtwitcher has the best long course bike position [jkhayc]
[ In reply to ]
Comparing my cockpit with yours and have to ask........Stem spacers are bad, but pad spacers are allowed? Serious question as I’d move my spacers from stem to pads to improve my score.
Regarding the P3, hoping to see someone address cockpit integration with the Profile Design Aeria Ultimate (and prototype nosecone BTA bottle).
Scott
Regarding the P3, hoping to see someone address cockpit integration with the Profile Design Aeria Ultimate (and prototype nosecone BTA bottle).
Scott
Last edited by:
GreatScott: Oct 24, 17 12:24
Re: What slowtwitcher has the best long course bike position [Fishbum]
[ In reply to ]
Fishbum wrote:
EOD?End Of Discussion.
Re: What slowtwitcher has the best long course bike position [Francois]
[ In reply to ]
đź‘Ť. Sorry I'm used to that acronym meaning something else
Re: What slowtwitcher has the best long course bike position [Fishbum]
[ In reply to ]
Ah. Got it. You are part of a bomb squad? ;)
Re: What slowtwitcher has the best long course bike position [GreatScott]
[ In reply to ]
Yes. Pad spacers are more aero than steerer tube spacers.
2019 T-Rex Tri Series
2019 T-Rex Tri Series
Re: What slowtwitcher has the best long course bike position [Francois]
[ In reply to ]
No sorry I did not mean to imply that. I'm just a UPS driver we use that acronym for other things.
Re: What slowtwitcher has the best long course bike position [GreatScott]
[ In reply to ]
yes, pad spacers >>>>>> steerer tube spacers. more aesthetically pleasing as well. i believe i have read/heard that you either want your armpads basically directly on the basebar OR at least 15mm pedestaled for optimum aerodynamics.
Re: What slowtwitcher has the best long course bike position [Francois]
[ In reply to ]
Re: What slowtwitcher has the best long course bike position [jkhayc]
[ In reply to ]
Re: What slowtwitcher has the best long course bike position [gregn]
[ In reply to ]
True. True. But then duathlons are harder so there is that.
My position is the same regardless of distance anyway. It’s changed a bit since that race. Longer extensions. Rotated slightly up and different helmet.
My position is the same regardless of distance anyway. It’s changed a bit since that race. Longer extensions. Rotated slightly up and different helmet.
Re: What slowtwitcher has the best long course bike position [P McCatty]
[ In reply to ]
Re: What slowtwitcher has the best long course bike position [Multisportsdad]
[ In reply to ]
-1 for pyramid scheme sponsorship
-1 for head position
-1 for using anything that Thomas Gerlach espouses (your ugly shoes)
+1 for armpad pedestal style
-1 for having too much armpad stack
+1 for America
-1 for head position
-1 for using anything that Thomas Gerlach espouses (your ugly shoes)
+1 for armpad pedestal style
-1 for having too much armpad stack
+1 for America
Re: What slowtwitcher has the best long course bike position [jkhayc]
[ In reply to ]
My position is awful - age and lack of flexibility are my excuses...
I ride:
Cervelo - P-Series/R3
GT - Sensor Carbon Expert
Supporters - Flo Cycling, Mount Bikes
I ride:
Cervelo - P-Series/R3
GT - Sensor Carbon Expert
Supporters - Flo Cycling, Mount Bikes
Re: What slowtwitcher has the best long course bike position [BayDad]
[ In reply to ]
let's see if we've all learned lessons...give yourself a critique.
Re: What slowtwitcher has the best long course bike position [jkhayc]
[ In reply to ]
Re: What slowtwitcher has the best long course bike position [jkhayc]
[ In reply to ]
first photo by Herbert Krabel
Eric Reid AeroFit | Instagram Portfolio
Aerodynamic Retul Bike Fitting
“You are experiencing the criminal coverup of a foreign backed fascist hostile takeover of a mafia shakedown of an authoritarian religious slow motion coup. Persuade people to vote for Democracy.”
Re: What slowtwitcher has the best long course bike position [ericMPro]
[ In reply to ]
-1 for front valve extension
-1 for not using thumb loops
-1 for poor fitting shoe covers
-1 for uci legal post on a uci illegal bike
-1 for wrong size beard
-1 for TT pic on a Tri thread
-1 for not using thumb loops
-1 for poor fitting shoe covers
-1 for uci legal post on a uci illegal bike
-1 for wrong size beard
-1 for TT pic on a Tri thread
Re: What slowtwitcher has the best long course bike position [jkhayc]
[ In reply to ]
dude you are on FIRE!
-1 for not using thumb loops
-1 for poor fitting shoe covers
-1 for uci legal post on a uci illegal bike
-1 for wrong size beard
-1 for TT pic on a Tri thread
Eric Reid AeroFit | Instagram Portfolio
Aerodynamic Retul Bike Fitting
“You are experiencing the criminal coverup of a foreign backed fascist hostile takeover of a mafia shakedown of an authoritarian religious slow motion coup. Persuade people to vote for Democracy.”
jkhayc wrote:
-1 for front valve extension -1 for not using thumb loops
-1 for poor fitting shoe covers
-1 for uci legal post on a uci illegal bike
-1 for wrong size beard
-1 for TT pic on a Tri thread
Eric Reid AeroFit | Instagram Portfolio
Aerodynamic Retul Bike Fitting
“You are experiencing the criminal coverup of a foreign backed fascist hostile takeover of a mafia shakedown of an authoritarian religious slow motion coup. Persuade people to vote for Democracy.”
Re: What slowtwitcher has the best long course bike position [BayDad]
[ In reply to ]
It's not a flexibility issue.
Re: What slowtwitcher has the best long course bike position [Fishbum]
[ In reply to ]
Fishbum wrote:
It's not a flexibility issue.
Re: What slowtwitcher has the best long course bike position [BayDad]
[ In reply to ]
a really good virtual fitting would legitimately help you discover things about yourself you don't even know now.
Re: What slowtwitcher has the best long course bike position [BayDad]
[ In reply to ]
I would start with a different saddle that lets you roll your hips forward. And I like your bike.
Re: What slowtwitcher has the best long course bike position [jkhayc]
[ In reply to ]
Re: What slowtwitcher has the best long course bike position [LAI]
[ In reply to ]
you put on velotoze and a BP3 in T1???
Re: What slowtwitcher has the best long course bike position [jkhayc]
[ In reply to ]
Re: What slowtwitcher has the best long course bike position [LAI]
[ In reply to ]
i mean, there's really nothing to fault there in terms of aero. your old tech bike maybe? your beard?
Re: What slowtwitcher has the best long course bike position [jkhayc]
[ In reply to ]
Taking it easy on me huh? Yeah, the beard is actually quite trim compared to years past. In fact, the top photo it's merely race day scruff. Could have dinged me on the taillight in the second pic and....well....yeah, I think that is it.
My YouTubes
My YouTubes
Re: What slowtwitcher has the best long course bike position [LAI]
[ In reply to ]
yea couldn't tell exactly what that was, so ignored it.
i mean besides the obvious fact that this is not a long course triathlon position...duh.
Quote:
Taking it easy on me huh?i mean besides the obvious fact that this is not a long course triathlon position...duh.
Re: What slowtwitcher has the best long course bike position [jkhayc]
[ In reply to ]
Well, tossing it around for 2019....Spend enough time on ST and I guess you guys start to rub off.
My YouTubes
My YouTubes
Re: What slowtwitcher has the best long course bike position [Fishbum]
[ In reply to ]
Fishbum wrote:
I would start with a different saddle that lets you roll your hips forward. And I like your bike.jkhayc wrote:
a really good virtual fitting would legitimately help you discover things about yourself you don't even know now.
Re: What slowtwitcher has the best long course bike position [BayDad]
[ In reply to ]
Try some different ones.
I like the Fizik Tritone but alot of guy rave about the Cobb 55.
You could also reach out to Trent Nix at the TRI shop in plaino TX. He chimes in on here from time to time.
I like the Fizik Tritone but alot of guy rave about the Cobb 55.
You could also reach out to Trent Nix at the TRI shop in plaino TX. He chimes in on here from time to time.
Re: What slowtwitcher has the best long course bike position [BayDad]
[ In reply to ]
BayDad wrote:
Fishbum wrote:
It's not a flexibility issue.Or an age issue. I'm 47 and I'm actually a bit lower than I posted on the previous picture.
Re: What slowtwitcher has the best long course bike position [Francois]
[ In reply to ]
Ok, let's give it a try :-)
Instagram and Strava: @lpstormo
Instagram and Strava: @lpstormo
Re: What slowtwitcher has the best long course bike position [Stormo]
[ In reply to ]
-1 for saddle choice (your saddle is destroying your taint/grundle/perineum)
-1 for being about to crash because you can't see who's in front of you
-1 etap blip box mounting position
-1 for rear bottle being way too high
+ 3.5 for being 2nd OA amateur at Kona
-1 for being about to crash because you can't see who's in front of you
-1 etap blip box mounting position
-1 for rear bottle being way too high
+ 3.5 for being 2nd OA amateur at Kona
Re: What slowtwitcher has the best long course bike position [jkhayc]
[ In reply to ]
Ha ha ha đź‘Ť
I also saw the high rear bottle and it will be fixed.
Saddle: works great for me.
Don't need to see much on Queen K - just follow the white line đź„
Thanks, could have been awesome without a puncture, but now I must go back and try again in 2018 đź‘Ťđź‰
Instagram and Strava: @lpstormo
I also saw the high rear bottle and it will be fixed.
Saddle: works great for me.
Don't need to see much on Queen K - just follow the white line đź„
Thanks, could have been awesome without a puncture, but now I must go back and try again in 2018 đź‘Ťđź‰
Instagram and Strava: @lpstormo
Re: What slowtwitcher has the best long course bike position [Stormo]
[ In reply to ]
Re: What slowtwitcher has the best long course bike position [jkhayc]
[ In reply to ]
[/img]
Re: What slowtwitcher has the best long course bike position [jkhayc]
[ In reply to ]
Hi James judge away. -5 for the watermark but whatever im broke. Also note that the front brake is a tririg.
Re: What slowtwitcher has the best long course bike position [david222]
[ In reply to ]
-1 for your helmet chin strap being WAYYY too long (clearly you inspired Lucy Charles)
-1 for your flat repair kit sticking out of your little special Canyon cubbyhole
-1 for not having your timing chip faired appropriately by your ankle
-1 for your flat repair kit sticking out of your little special Canyon cubbyhole
-1 for not having your timing chip faired appropriately by your ankle
Re: What slowtwitcher has the best long course bike position [APKTRI]
[ In reply to ]
-2 for head position
Re: What slowtwitcher has the best long course bike position [emantell]
[ In reply to ]
in the 2nd pic, is that the saddle you use full time? i thought you were an ISM user...?
Re: What slowtwitcher has the best long course bike position [jkhayc]
[ In reply to ]
switched back in May because I wanted to sit a little back
Re: What slowtwitcher has the best long course bike position [jkhayc]
[ In reply to ]
jkhayc wrote:
It's very, very fast. Only downside is lack of compatibility with certain integrated nutrition, wires, and wider wheels/tires. I don't have a side shot of this, but the watts/cda was pretty good. https://www.strava.com/activities/984866945
WTF is with those gloves? Are you refereeing a game of 9 ball after the bike ride?
Re: What slowtwitcher has the best long course bike position [emantell]
[ In reply to ]
I know most fitters recommend bringing saddle forward as much as possible to rotate the body. But I've found that in my case I can generate more power with saddle moved a little back with no comfort issues to maintain position.
Did you moved saddle back due to the same reason?
Did you moved saddle back due to the same reason?
Re: What slowtwitcher has the best long course bike position [knighty76]
[ In reply to ]
i was actually acting as a traffic cop at an intersection just before this pic was taken
Re: What slowtwitcher has the best long course bike position [pabloarc]
[ In reply to ]
pabloarc wrote:
I know most fitters recommend bringing saddle forward as much as possible to rotate the body. But I've found that in my case I can generate more power with saddle moved a little back with no comfort issues to maintain position. Did you moved saddle back due to the same reason?
the REASON tri bikes are made the way they are is to get an athlete in a more aero, more sustainable position. this is achieved by shifting the rider forward and down. i cannot create the same power in my aero bars as i can in my drop bars on my road bike. but again, why bother? that's not really the goal.
Re: What slowtwitcher has the best long course bike position [jkhayc]
[ In reply to ]
if the arm pads stack is maintained, and you only moved saddle a bit backwards to improve power, aerodynamics shouldn't be impacted I think. Also considering that position is still as sustainable during the 180km.
Re: What slowtwitcher has the best long course bike position [pabloarc]
[ In reply to ]
If you do that you might actually make yourself slightly more aero. But really, you may be giving up something to the athlete that (considering everything else is the same, same bike, same fit, same FTP, same everything, your clone) extends his arm pad reach AND lowers his armpad stack. Your clone may put out less power than you, but your clone will likely go faster and expend LESS energy on the bike. So your clone might kick your butt on the run.
Re: What slowtwitcher has the best long course bike position [jkhayc]
[ In reply to ]
jkhayc wrote:
It's very, very fast. Only downside is lack of compatibility with certain integrated nutrition, wires, and wider wheels/tires. I don't have a side shot of this, but the watts/cda was pretty good. https://www.strava.com/activities/984866945
-1 for hairy arms
-1 for suit wrinkle on thigh
-1 for disc cover
-1 velcro bento box
-1 for straw sticking straight up
-3 for the knit gloves
Re: What slowtwitcher has the best long course bike position [Sean H]
[ In reply to ]
no no no.
i want to be judged for this one:
i want to be judged for this one:
Re: What slowtwitcher has the best long course bike position [jkhayc]
[ In reply to ]
jkhayc wrote:
no no no. i want to be judged for this one:
- 0.5 for head position
- 1 for chip position
- 1 for chip strap flapping in the wind
- 1 for behind the seat monstrosity
+ 5 for body position
Re: What slowtwitcher has the best long course bike position [Sean H]
[ In reply to ]
Haha, yea the chip was real bad at that race. I'm super embarrassed.
It was bad from the start I guess. This is the same race from the swim.
I eventually got a more streamlined flat kit + rear bottle, basically lowering it a lot but it was definitely never pretty.
This is about the best bike setup I can imagine for 112mi, however.
It was bad from the start I guess. This is the same race from the swim.
I eventually got a more streamlined flat kit + rear bottle, basically lowering it a lot but it was definitely never pretty.
This is about the best bike setup I can imagine for 112mi, however.
Re: What slowtwitcher has the best long course bike position [jkhayc]
[ In reply to ]
Your front wheel has just as many spokes on it as mine does and you hammered me on that. So - 5 for being a jerk đź‚
Re: What slowtwitcher has the best long course bike position [Sean H]
[ In reply to ]
Sean H wrote:
jkhayc wrote:
no no no. i want to be judged for this one:
- 0.5 for head position
- 1 for chip position
- 1 for chip strap flapping in the wind
- 1 for behind the seat monstrosity
+ 5 for body position
You are getting soft. I can't believe you let him slide on
-1 for the extra long valve extender
-1 50 dollar helmet on a 8-9,000$ bike (even though the helmet doesn't fit poorly).
Re: What slowtwitcher has the best long course bike position [grumpier.mike]
[ In reply to ]
I've probably tested like 20 different helmets on myself (in the wind tunnel), and that is the second fastest I've ever tested. I only switched to my current helmet when it came out and I tested it to be a watt or three faster.
Re: What slowtwitcher has the best long course bike position [grumpier.mike]
[ In reply to ]
Dammit I did miss the long valve extender! I gave a pass on the helmet as it passed the eyeball aero test. He needs to shrug the head a little more though.
Re: What slowtwitcher has the best long course bike position [emantell]
[ In reply to ]
emantell wrote:
Hi James judge away. -5 for the watermark but whatever im broke. Also note that the front brake is a tririg.Dude run your rear brake cable threw your top tube. Looks way better and doesn't have any effect on braking.
Re: What slowtwitcher has the best long course bike position [jkhayc]
[ In reply to ]
-1 for goggles outside cap
Re: What slowtwitcher has the best long course bike position [jkhayc]
[ In reply to ]
jkhayc wrote:
no no no. i want to be judged for this one:
Sweet setup, quintessential classic ST.
This thread has proven to be as educational as it is entertaining. I'm really trying to observe and learn. On that note, your hip angle appears very closed to me. Is that an accurate assessment? If so, is that a conscious choice and how does it affect you?
Scott
Re: What slowtwitcher has the best long course bike position [GreatScott]
[ In reply to ]
Relatively speaking for how "optimized" my position is/was that's a pretty open hip angle.
Re: What slowtwitcher has the best long course bike position [jkhayc]
[ In reply to ]
Ok, thanks. Upon further review, I see I was looking at it incorrectly. You are actually a great illustration of how a steep saddle angle opens things up for getting low up front. Is that correct?
Last edited by:
GreatScott: Oct 26, 17 18:40
Re: What slowtwitcher has the best long course bike position [GreatScott]
[ In reply to ]
well, you really are looking at the angle between the torso and the femur. but even so, my hip angle isn't super tight and i never experienced impingements in that area. i was too low, overall, for IM (without significant practice) and induced lower back issues. I think ultimately I did not have quite enough reach on that bike (54 P5). After some wind tunnel time I did switch to 165s which I think I have in that race pic.
Just a counter example:
Just a counter example:
Re: What slowtwitcher has the best long course bike position [jkhayc]
[ In reply to ]
Geezus. That pic says it all!
Re: What slowtwitcher has the best long course bike position [jkhayc]
[ In reply to ]
jkhayc wrote:
I've probably tested like 20 different helmets on myself (in the wind tunnel), and that is the second fastest I've ever tested. I only switched to my current helmet when it came out and I tested it to be a watt or three faster.I enjoyed the irony of your equipment choice.
They are definitely a classic and for a lot of people there are only marginal gains over that helmet. I was just suggesting that someone get one as a great budget helmet (60$ on clearance at Excel Sports as a shameless sponsor plug).
Re: What slowtwitcher has the best long course bike position [jkhayc]
[ In reply to ]
Why -1 for a Dimond?
Re: What slowtwitcher has the best long course bike position [luarca]
[ In reply to ]
Sorry, should have been -2.
are you familiar with the term "tongue in cheek?"
but your bike is too small for you.
are you familiar with the term "tongue in cheek?"
but your bike is too small for you.
Re: What slowtwitcher has the best long course bike position [jkhayc]
[ In reply to ]
Not used to coloquial terms in other language than mine :-)
Agree with the size, but Dimond stack is to high for me.
Agree with the size, but Dimond stack is to high for me.
Re: What slowtwitcher has the best long course bike position [gregn]
[ In reply to ]
There. Triathlon and long distance.
Re: What slowtwitcher has the best long course bike position [Fishbum]
[ In reply to ]
Re bump for 2018 positions!
Re: What slowtwitcher has the best long course bike position [swim_corey_run]
[ In reply to ]
Updated position for 2018: Still need to move pads back about 1/2in. Changes for 2018: New frame (smaller) switch cranks to 165, lowered seat 18mm. Possible have gone to low? Power is still fine so hesitated to come back up. I did run a PR off this position, but it was a good running day and many had PR's that day.
2024: Bevoman, Galveston, Alcatraz, Marble Falls, Santa Cruz
2024: Bevoman, Galveston, Alcatraz, Marble Falls, Santa Cruz
Re: What slowtwitcher has the best long course bike position [BBLOEHR]
[ In reply to ]
Question: Do you have the tilt kit on the TriRig bar? If so, consider swapping out the 110 extensions for the 70 extensions, then tilt the bar to hit the same shifter rise as you currently have.
This should give you more pad contact and overall better elbow/forearm support.
Just a thought. Otherwise, position looks super aggressive and fast!
Alex Arman
Strava
This should give you more pad contact and overall better elbow/forearm support.
Just a thought. Otherwise, position looks super aggressive and fast!
Alex Arman
Strava
Re: What slowtwitcher has the best long course bike position [doublea334]
[ In reply to ]
I moved back to the stock felt base bar. I don't like how you can't mount the garmin well to the Evo 110, but since i can't get a hold of the 51Speed Shop extensions best i can do. Had thought I was going to need the TR for the additional drop and reach. I still have 5mm spacer I could take out so drop ended up not being a issue. I have TR cups with Zipp pads currently, will switch over to Zipp cups this weekend will also put some washers under them like Josh Amberger does to get the pad tilt, but i get what your saying and it would save you from having to do the washer thing. I don't like the lack of pad with only just your elbows sitting on top of pads, its manageable but could be better.
2024: Bevoman, Galveston, Alcatraz, Marble Falls, Santa Cruz
2024: Bevoman, Galveston, Alcatraz, Marble Falls, Santa Cruz
Re: What slowtwitcher has the best long course bike position [BBLOEHR]
[ In reply to ]
Re: What slowtwitcher has the best long course bike position [BBLOEHR]
[ In reply to ]
on first glance that certainly looks...low. through some stalking it appears as though you biked a 2:19:xx and ran a 1:28:xx. 220ish watts for the bike and you described the bike - according to strava - as ''meh.''
you may be able to hold similar power as your previous position but i doubt it will ever feel as good. i just don't see the point in being as low as you are in that picture. your problem is definitely not your watts:mph ratio.
you may be able to hold similar power as your previous position but i doubt it will ever feel as good. i just don't see the point in being as low as you are in that picture. your problem is definitely not your watts:mph ratio.
Re: What slowtwitcher has the best long course bike position [BBLOEHR]
[ In reply to ]
You definitely don't look as long as you did on you Trek. What was the reason for the smaller bike / tighter position?
Re: What slowtwitcher has the best long course bike position [jkhayc]
[ In reply to ]
jkhayc wrote:
on first glance that certainly looks...low. through some stalking it appears as though you biked a 2:19:xx and ran a 1:28:xx. 220ish watts for the bike and you described the bike - according to strava - as ''meh.'' you may be able to hold similar power as your previous position but i doubt it will ever feel as good. i just don't see the point in being as low as you are in that picture. your problem is definitely not your watts:mph ratio.
I had typed up a response saying he might actually be too low. But the more I looked at it I think if he held his back flatter rather than hunched it would look a lot better. Might need slightly more reach.
Re: What slowtwitcher has the best long course bike position [jrielley]
[ In reply to ]
Now i have it mounted with the the zipp bottle mount. I have a alden mount to but I don't like how i can see it well when my hands are crossed.
2024: Bevoman, Galveston, Alcatraz, Marble Falls, Santa Cruz
2024: Bevoman, Galveston, Alcatraz, Marble Falls, Santa Cruz
Re: What slowtwitcher has the best long course bike position [jkhayc]
[ In reply to ]
jkhayc wrote:
on first glance that certainly looks...low. through some stalking it appears as though you biked a 2:19:xx and ran a 1:28:xx. 220ish watts for the bike and you described the bike - according to strava - as ''meh.'' you may be able to hold similar power as your previous position but i doubt it will ever feel as good. i just don't see the point in being as low as you are in that picture. your problem is definitely not your watts:mph ratio.
Yea will keep playing with it.
2024: Bevoman, Galveston, Alcatraz, Marble Falls, Santa Cruz
Re: What slowtwitcher has the best long course bike position [Sean H]
[ In reply to ]
He's too low IMO. His hip angle is quite closed off.
I already told him this but he won't listen. :) Maybe some public shaming will do it.
I've already struggled enough getting him to lower his seat.
blog
I already told him this but he won't listen. :) Maybe some public shaming will do it.
I've already struggled enough getting him to lower his seat.
blog
Re: What slowtwitcher has the best long course bike position [stevej]
[ In reply to ]
well he's still in my AG so maybe pad height is juuuust right
let's see if that works lol
let's see if that works lol
Re: What slowtwitcher has the best long course bike position [BBLOEHR]
[ In reply to ]
Re: What slowtwitcher has the best long course bike position [jrielley]
[ In reply to ]
I just use electrical tape to tape the garmin to the extensions. It works but I guess a little bit of a hassle. Maybe I'll have to stop being so lazy and figure out the pvc pipe option.
Re: What slowtwitcher has the best long course bike position [Sean H]
[ In reply to ]
Re: What slowtwitcher has the best long course bike position [BBLOEHR]
[ In reply to ]
Yea the more I look at it the more I just don't understand being that low. You're not gaining anything.
Re: What slowtwitcher has the best long course bike position [LAI]
[ In reply to ]
LAI wrote:
jaretj wrote:
There needs to be more criteria than that, I have nearly the lowest drag of anyone here only because I'm smaller but I'm certainly not the fastest . Perhaps watts/drag?
Well, since he is merely looking to emulate the best positions I'm not sure adding power into the equation matters much. Also, when you say small what does that mean? and nearly the lowest drag? What did you test out at?
I know this is several months late:
When I say I'm small that means I'm physically small compared to most people.
I haven't aero tested on the bike but I'm able to do a 40K in an hour at a little over 200 watts, perhaps someone can help with that.
I'm also able to put out nearly the same power in my aero position vs my road position, I can ride it comfortably for hours.
Re: What slowtwitcher has the best long course bike position [jaretj]
[ In reply to ]
jaretj wrote:
I know this is several months late: When I say I'm small that means I'm physically small compared to most people.
I haven't aero tested on the bike but I'm able to do a 40K in an hour at a little over 200 watts, perhaps someone can help with that.
I'm also able to put out nearly the same power in my aero position vs my road position, I can ride it comfortably for hours.
That is late. ;) I had to scroll up and read the original comment you replied to (pasted below) to remember what you were referencing.
I think what I was saying above was that watts don't really matter in this context because lower drag is all the guy is after. That is, if you lower your drag you will go faster off the same watts. Therefore, throwing up "I did XX:XX on XXX watts" doesn't really paint a good picture of how slippery one is, as the course is unknown (elevation, profile, technical aspect) and the weather is also unknown (temperature, wind speed, wind direction). Also, is the course really 40K? On the same 40K course I have put out 227, 232, 212, 232 and 215 watts which produced 56:07, 57:06, 57:10, 57:31, and 58:33, respectively. As you can see wattage and time on a 40K course really doesn't tell the whole story.
What I was looking for in regards to what small meant was height, weight, shoulder width, etc. Also, what does "in an hour mean"? 59:50 or 1:01:00? I'm not trying to be a pain in the ass, it's just there is a big difference between the two. Your "little over" also is vague enough to not really be of much help. Maybe 1 or 2 watts is "a little" to you or maybe 5 or 10 is. Even with that info you'd have a hard time figuring out your CdA(m^2); however, I think it is safe to say you're far from being the guy/gal on ST with the lowest CdA (m^2). Not sure if I threw mine up in this thread, but when I went to the tunnel last I was .198 at 0Âş and I am no where near to being as slippery as some of the folks on here.
Anyhow, CdA and the ability too run well afterwards really is about all the criteria a ST'er would need to adhere to when looking to emulate a position. Although, I think I would just get with DesertDude and hit one of his aerocamps.
grumpier.mike wrote:
desert dude wrote:
Define best?Easy
1. Lowest CdA for the bike leg
2. Can still run after the bike leg
There are some goofy positions that are still really fast. On the U.K. Timetrialing site there was a guy with a pretty high position with a CdA of 0.18. Given that very few people seem capable of a 0.22 CdA just image how fresh you would be after putting in a smoking fast bike leg.
My YouTubes
Re: What slowtwitcher has the best long course bike position [LAI]
[ In reply to ]
24.78 miles
Elevation Gain 48ft
Wind speed 6 mph (WSW)
1:00:06 (Edit: with the start up and dismount)
201 watts
142 lbs
63.5 inches tall
I haven't measured my shoulders but I don't have abnormally large or small shoulders
73° F
Dew point 65°F
I ran within 90 sec of my personal best after that ride.
There aren't many people here that can go that fast on so few watts. I can think of two from the post your race time thread.
Elevation Gain 48ft
Wind speed 6 mph (WSW)
1:00:06 (Edit: with the start up and dismount)
201 watts
142 lbs
63.5 inches tall
I haven't measured my shoulders but I don't have abnormally large or small shoulders
73° F
Dew point 65°F
I ran within 90 sec of my personal best after that ride.
There aren't many people here that can go that fast on so few watts. I can think of two from the post your race time thread.
Re: What slowtwitcher has the best long course bike position [LAI]
[ In reply to ]
LAI wrote:
Not sure if I threw mine up in this thread, but when I went to the tunnel last I was .198 at 0Âş and I am no where near to being as slippery as some of the folks on here.Ehhhhhhhhhh yea no.
.198 at 0 for long course triathletes?
Nobody is much slippierier than that.
Re: What slowtwitcher has the best long course bike position [jkhayc]
[ In reply to ]
jkhayc wrote:
LAI wrote:
Not sure if I threw mine up in this thread, but when I went to the tunnel last I was .198 at 0Âş and I am no where near to being as slippery as some of the folks on here.Ehhhhhhhhhh yea no.
.198 at 0 for long course triathletes?
Nobody is much slippierier than that.
You're right. I should have specified that I meant on ST and not just long course....not sure why I went that way.
My YouTubes
Re: What slowtwitcher has the best long course bike position [LAI]
[ In reply to ]
You need to get it together! ;)
Re: What slowtwitcher has the best long course bike position [Fishbum]
[ In reply to ]
Another season has come and gone. I no some of you guys made some fit changes....
LET SEE THEM.
LET SEE THEM.
Re: What slowtwitcher has the best long course bike position [Fishbum]
[ In reply to ]
Re: What slowtwitcher has the best long course bike position [Fishbum]
[ In reply to ]
Re: What slowtwitcher has the best long course bike position [Fishbum]
[ In reply to ]
Re: What slowtwitcher has the best long course bike position [Fishbum]
[ In reply to ]
Fishbum wrote:
Another season has come and gone. I no some of you guys made some fit changes.... LET SEE THEM.
Know they didn't.
Re: What slowtwitcher has the best long course bike position [Fishbum]
[ In reply to ]
Raised front 3 cm
Added 3 cm of reach
Added 3 cm of reach
Re: What slowtwitcher has the best long course bike position [Sean H]
[ In reply to ]
Sean H wrote:
When I saw you at Maryland I should have known you were a slowtwitchER
Re: What slowtwitcher has the best long course bike position [ElliotOP]
[ In reply to ]
Bike size?
Stem length?
Stem length?
Re: What slowtwitcher has the best long course bike position [Fishbum]
[ In reply to ]
Lol what gave it away?
Re: What slowtwitcher has the best long course bike position [Sean H]
[ In reply to ]
Sean H wrote:
Lol what gave it away?This place makes everyone anal-retentive about things on their bike. Like most guys here you don't even usually have to ask anymore.
How close to klinedinst were you on the bike split.
Re: What slowtwitcher has the best long course bike position [Fishbum]
[ In reply to ]
54
120mm (-17deg)
120mm (-17deg)
Re: What slowtwitcher has the best long course bike position [ElliotOP]
[ In reply to ]
Looks good. I had that bike in a 56 last year it was already out till 1:30 stem and needed more.
Re: What slowtwitcher has the best long course bike position [Fishbum]
[ In reply to ]
Not close, 7 minutes.
Re: What slowtwitcher has the best long course bike position [teddygram]
[ In reply to ]
teddygram wrote:
Per Fishbum request (you need to get that knee healed and get off the couch), here is a trainer race pic!!!!! 6.5/10
-1 for hanging any IM related merchandise, ever
-.5 for being in small ring, ever
-1 for picture lighting
-1 for carpet
-1 for way too little reach
+1 for head position (of course, not a race pic so would need race pic to truly judge head position)
Re: What slowtwitcher has the best long course bike position [ElliotOP]
[ In reply to ]
Re: What slowtwitcher has the best long course bike position [Sean H]
[ In reply to ]
Sean H wrote:
9/10
-1 for having a wussy front wheel depth
Re: What slowtwitcher has the best long course bike position [jkhayc]
[ In reply to ]
jkhayc wrote:
teddygram wrote:
Per Fishbum request (you need to get that knee healed and get off the couch), here is a trainer race pic!!!!! 6.5/10
-1 for hanging any IM related merchandise, ever
-.5 for being in small ring, ever
-1 for picture lighting
-1 for carpet
-1 for way too little reach
+1 for head position (of course, not a race pic so would need race pic to truly judge head position)
I was hoping you would chime back in
Re: What slowtwitcher has the best long course bike position [jkhayc]
[ In reply to ]
jkhayc wrote:
teddygram wrote:
Per Fishbum request (you need to get that knee healed and get off the couch), here is a trainer race pic!!!!!6.5/10
-1 for hanging any IM related merchandise, ever
-.5 for being in small ring, ever
-1 for picture lighting
-1 for carpet
-1 for way too little reach
+1 for head position (of course, not a race pic so would need race pic to truly judge head position)
Possible to get some points back?
-.5 for being in small ring, ever - Cables/housing were off to make changes so the bike was in the little little!!!!!
-1 for hanging any IM related merchandise, ever - It is protecting the wall from flying sweat?
Haha!
Re: What slowtwitcher has the best long course bike position [jkhayc]
[ In reply to ]
I'll take it! No way I was going to travel with 2 front wheels, and last race I only brought the 9 we had 25 mph sustained winds. Unfortunately Maryland didn't live up to its windy reputation.
Re: What slowtwitcher has the best long course bike position [Sean H]
[ In reply to ]
-.5 for being too poor to travel with multiple wheelset options
Re: What slowtwitcher has the best long course bike position [jkhayc]
[ In reply to ]
lolololol but it's more like too lazy. you can put a wheel in the overhead compartment for free.
Re: What slowtwitcher has the best long course bike position [Sean H]
[ In reply to ]
yea that last one was definitely tongue in cheek
Re: What slowtwitcher has the best long course bike position [jkhayc]
[ In reply to ]
jkhayc wrote:
yea that last one was definitely tongue in cheekhow many points for jens' carpet in his morf bar thread ?
Re: What slowtwitcher has the best long course bike position [pk]
[ In reply to ]
that heinous rug is far from the main concern in those pics
Re: What slowtwitcher has the best long course bike position [jkhayc]
[ In reply to ]
But it really tied the room together
Re: What slowtwitcher has the best long course bike position [jkhayc]
[ In reply to ]
Re: What slowtwitcher has the best long course bike position [jrielley]
[ In reply to ]
Anthony Costes aero egg. .. Noone beats that
Re: What slowtwitcher has the best long course bike position [jrielley]
[ In reply to ]
jrielley wrote:
Well got a few decent pics from a race. My head needs to stop sticking up like a damn fool and need/want a bit more reach but still finding solutions for this integrated stem.[/img][/img]+ 1 for appearing to have purchased your race photos instead of stealing them
+ 1 for non lame kit
- .5 for shorts that are too short
- .5 for "look at me" shoes
+.5 for going fast enough such that you have to look where you're going
Re: What slowtwitcher has the best long course bike position [jkhayc]
[ In reply to ]
jkhayc wrote:
jrielley wrote:
Well got a few decent pics from a race. My head needs to stop sticking up like a damn fool and need/want a bit more reach but still finding solutions for this integrated stem.[/img][/img]+ 1 for appearing to have purchased your race photos instead of stealing them well technically I paid for them with my race entry...
+ 1 for non lame kit a custom kit is always the way to go now!
- .5 for shorts that are too short too short?! Tan lines are dumb! That way when I swim in my speedo there aren’t as many super pasty inches of leg
- .5 for "look at me" shoes ill give you that one. But they were the only color on sale...
+.5 for going fast enough such that you have to look where you're going if only I wasn’t looking ahead to someone ahead of me...
Twitter - Instagram
Re: What slowtwitcher has the best long course bike position [jrielley]
[ In reply to ]
jrielley wrote:
Well got a few decent pics from a race. My head needs to stop sticking up like a damn fool and need/want a bit more reach but still finding solutions for this integrated stem.[/img][/img]-2 for the high head position in the first photo. That is probably your biggest potential improvement.
Re: What slowtwitcher has the best long course bike position [grumpier.mike]
[ In reply to ]
I've since gotten a new saddle and raised it about 2-3cm with better hip rotation so even more aggressive now but no pics of it in action yet. This is my 70.3 fit. I wouldn't be able to hold it for a full but no plans on that distance for a year at least. Certainly not the best position on slowtwitch but still improving. Stay tuned for pics from Indian Wells 70.3
Benjamin Deal - Professional - Instagram - TriRig - Lodi Cyclery
Deals on Wheels - Results, schedule, videos, sponsors
Benjamin Deal - Professional - Instagram - TriRig - Lodi Cyclery
Deals on Wheels - Results, schedule, videos, sponsors
Re: What slowtwitcher has the best long course bike position [realbdeal]
[ In reply to ]
why couldn't you hold this for a full?
Eric
Eric Reid AeroFit | Instagram Portfolio
Aerodynamic Retul Bike Fitting
“You are experiencing the criminal coverup of a foreign backed fascist hostile takeover of a mafia shakedown of an authoritarian religious slow motion coup. Persuade people to vote for Democracy.”
Eric
Eric Reid AeroFit | Instagram Portfolio
Aerodynamic Retul Bike Fitting
“You are experiencing the criminal coverup of a foreign backed fascist hostile takeover of a mafia shakedown of an authoritarian religious slow motion coup. Persuade people to vote for Democracy.”
Re: What slowtwitcher has the best long course bike position [Fishbum]
[ In reply to ]
I'll toss my fit out there,not bad for a old guy ;-)
Re: What slowtwitcher has the best long course bike position [grumpier.mike]
[ In reply to ]
Re: What slowtwitcher has the best long course bike position [jrielley]
[ In reply to ]
It appears to me that if you put your head lower you wouldn't be able to see down the road.
Re: What slowtwitcher has the best long course bike position [jkhayc]
[ In reply to ]
James would you mind posting a pic of your position again? A++ if I remember correctly. It's a very good example...
Eric Reid AeroFit | Instagram Portfolio
Aerodynamic Retul Bike Fitting
“You are experiencing the criminal coverup of a foreign backed fascist hostile takeover of a mafia shakedown of an authoritarian religious slow motion coup. Persuade people to vote for Democracy.”
Eric Reid AeroFit | Instagram Portfolio
Aerodynamic Retul Bike Fitting
“You are experiencing the criminal coverup of a foreign backed fascist hostile takeover of a mafia shakedown of an authoritarian religious slow motion coup. Persuade people to vote for Democracy.”
Re: What slowtwitcher has the best long course bike position [jaretj]
[ In reply to ]
Re: What slowtwitcher has the best long course bike position [ericMPro]
[ In reply to ]
It usually comes down to neck strain but with my new position I feel much more natural and am doing all my trainer rides in aero now. My "current" FTP of 308w was set through a 20min test with about 6 minutes in aero and 14 minutes sitting up. I recently did a 3x30min workout @ 262, 277, 290 for each 30min, completely in aero which I think shows huge improvement for my power output in aero. Here are some videos I just took of the slightly modified position:
Benjamin Deal - Professional - Instagram - TriRig - Lodi Cyclery
Deals on Wheels - Results, schedule, videos, sponsors
Benjamin Deal - Professional - Instagram - TriRig - Lodi Cyclery
Deals on Wheels - Results, schedule, videos, sponsors
Re: What slowtwitcher has the best long course bike position [realbdeal]
[ In reply to ]
Re: What slowtwitcher has the best long course bike position [jkhayc]
[ In reply to ]
Well I raised the seatpost, so to be fair thats not the same thing with a new saddle. Looking at these videos it doesnt seem way different but its way more comfortable.
Benjamin Deal - Professional - Instagram - TriRig - Lodi Cyclery
Deals on Wheels - Results, schedule, videos, sponsors
Benjamin Deal - Professional - Instagram - TriRig - Lodi Cyclery
Deals on Wheels - Results, schedule, videos, sponsors
Re: What slowtwitcher has the best long course bike position [realbdeal]
[ In reply to ]
What length crank?
Re: What slowtwitcher has the best long course bike position [Fishbum]
[ In reply to ]
Wanted to bump this and see if Anyone wanted to add anything new this yr.
Re: What slowtwitcher has the best long course bike position [Fishbum]
[ In reply to ]
the longer the race the lower you should go.
Eric Reid AeroFit | Instagram Portfolio
Aerodynamic Retul Bike Fitting
“You are experiencing the criminal coverup of a foreign backed fascist hostile takeover of a mafia shakedown of an authoritarian religious slow motion coup. Persuade people to vote for Democracy.”
Fishbum wrote:
Wanted to bump this and see if Anyone wanted to add anything new this yr.Eric Reid AeroFit | Instagram Portfolio
Aerodynamic Retul Bike Fitting
“You are experiencing the criminal coverup of a foreign backed fascist hostile takeover of a mafia shakedown of an authoritarian religious slow motion coup. Persuade people to vote for Democracy.”
Re: What slowtwitcher has the best long course bike position [ericMPro]
[ In reply to ]
ericMPro wrote:
the longer the race the lower you should go. Fishbum wrote:
Wanted to bump this and see if Anyone wanted to add anything new this yr.Whaaaaaaat??!
Re: What slowtwitcher has the best long course bike position [Fishbum]
[ In reply to ]
or, the lower % of your FTP that you're riding at the lower you should go, and the longer you're out there on the course the more aerodynamics matters. Leave no stone unturned.
Whaaaaaaat??!
Eric Reid AeroFit | Instagram Portfolio
Aerodynamic Retul Bike Fitting
“You are experiencing the criminal coverup of a foreign backed fascist hostile takeover of a mafia shakedown of an authoritarian religious slow motion coup. Persuade people to vote for Democracy.”
Fishbum wrote:
ericMPro wrote:
the longer the race the lower you should go. Fishbum wrote:
Wanted to bump this and see if Anyone wanted to add anything new this yr.Whaaaaaaat??!
Eric Reid AeroFit | Instagram Portfolio
Aerodynamic Retul Bike Fitting
“You are experiencing the criminal coverup of a foreign backed fascist hostile takeover of a mafia shakedown of an authoritarian religious slow motion coup. Persuade people to vote for Democracy.”
Re: What slowtwitcher has the best long course bike position [Fishbum]
[ In reply to ]
Same position, all new gear.
Photo cred to Scott Flathouse!
Photo cred to Scott Flathouse!