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Bike fit exercise results (if you gave me your height and saddle height)
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for those of you who gave me your height and saddle height...

i thought i'd start a new thread on this, hope you don't mind, to keep this a little better organized. here are some results, if i didn't give you results in the prior thread:



there are many caveats here!

1. the point if this exercise is to tune an online tool for a direct selling bike maker that wants to be able to better tell the customer which bike to buy (frame size, stem size, pad pedestals, etc.). the frame maker already has a pad x/y prescriber (you type in your pad x/y, here's the prescription). the tool i'm working on now is to generate pad x/y via simple exercise. you could port the pad x/y into the prescriber for the solution.

2. this is not bike fit tool! this is the fallback. if you have nothing - no good sense of your own position; you haven't gone to a proper fitter for a bike fit; you're too embarrassed to put a video of yourself on slowtwitch to help get your fit dialed - but you want to buy this company's bike, this is a tool to help you choose the bike to buy.

3. this tool heavily relies on conformity to the norm. as you see, those blue dots are you, and you don't conform. the red dots are male pros. they conform somewhat better than the rest of you. this tool is built with the assumption that the bike you'll choose conforms to the norm.

4. blah blah blah. too many caveats to list. but they would or should be listed with the tool, so, if you (for example) want the "gentleman's fit" you could (say) add 20mm to "y" and subtract 10mm from "x". or, if you think you'll eventually get yourself into a better position, and ride more aggressively, the tool would coach you how to buy the solution that had 20mm of drop available by taking out pad pedestals, and 15mm of forward pad placement.

5. you'll see that this tool has no guidance for saddle placement. the suggestion here is that you place the pads first - the bike perhaps comes pre-positioned from the factory - and you place the saddle where you need to so that you're not too stretched, etc.

6. this should conform - if the math is right - to static formulas i've developed for armrest elevation drop, cockpit distance, seat angle and so forth. the assumption here is that you're riding with 79.5° of seat angle as measured in the old days before split-nose saddles. yes, that means this tool is assuming you'll ride with your hips in the position that represents long held assumptions as to the mean seat fore/aft.

all that said! this is an exercise. i'm interested now in hearing where you are, rather than where this tool says you "should" be. what i'd like from you all are:

1. what is your pad x/y?
2. are you long in the torso or long of leg?
3. anything else you want to say.

after i get a couple things off my desk i'll place a schematic on this thread telling those of you who haven't yet participated how to measure.

Dan Empfield
aka Slowman
Last edited by: Slowman: Aug 7, 17 8:42
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Re: Bike fit exercise results (if you gave me your height and saddle height) [Slowman] [ In reply to ]
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Reposting from the crickets thread.

Slowman wrote:
found it. you slipped by me. what i get is:

pad y = 582
pad x = 456

do you know how that compares with how you're currently riding?

Pad Y = 537 (this is pad included)
Pad X = 505

I've been told I am a long torso type, but really feel like I am more on the even proportioned side. I like to be low and stretched out and ride further back on the my saddle than the measuring point, which because of how the nose rolls off on my Dash it would lead me to think it might be skewing my number?

I don't think the numbers generated are that far off, but I also struggle finding integrated front end bikes that fit me without running under-mount extension setups. So, buying a bike with 580ish stack range would probably make it hard for me to hit my 535ish number.

My YouTubes

Last edited by: LAI: Aug 7, 17 12:32
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Re: Bike fit exercise results (if you gave me your height and saddle height) [LAI] [ In reply to ]
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love to see pics of you on the bike or of the bike itself at least.

note where you are on the chart above. no pro athletes anywhere in your solar system. just the other kooky folk.

bear in mind, if this tool i'm working on spat out 537/505 i would immediately change it. i'm confident there's no mix of morphology + riding ambitions that would generate 537/505.

that said, i'd be happy to eat my words where i harsh your position. but a pic is going to tell the story.

Dan Empfield
aka Slowman
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Re: Bike fit exercise results (if you gave me your height and saddle height) [Slowman] [ In reply to ]
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So your prescription is 666/495. You're not far off, actually. My fit is 671/498, and I'm comparatively long of leg for my height. I think at this point, a "general fit" for me is closer to 670/500, which would put you about 5mm shy on both axes.

I'm curious to set my bike up as you're proscribing and see if I can tell a difference. I'm guessing that if you set my bike to your coordinates and did a blind test with me I wouldn't be able to spot by feel alone which was which.
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Re: Bike fit exercise results (if you gave me your height and saddle height) [Slowman] [ In reply to ]
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5'10'
saddle height 738mm

David
* Ironman for Life! (Blog) * IM Everyday Hero Video * Daggett Shuler Law *
Disclaimer: I have personal and professional relationships with many athletes, vendors, and organizations in the triathlon world.
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Re: Bike fit exercise results (if you gave me your height and saddle height) [Slowman] [ In reply to ]
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Slowman wrote:
love to see pics of you on the bike or of the bike itself at least.

note where you are on the chart above. no pro athletes anywhere in your solar system. just the other kooky folk.

bear in mind, if this tool i'm working on spat out 537/505 i would immediately change it. i'm confident there's no mix of morphology + riding ambitions that would generate 537/505.

that said, i'd be happy to eat my words where i harsh your position. but a pic is going to tell the story.


Here is a shot from this past week. Not the greatest, but it is all I have: I'll take a proper side photo when I get home and grab the numbers you are asking for.[/img]


Also, here is the position I ran last year and the numbers on this position are "kookier" If I remember correctly it's something like: y = 565; x = 550




Edit: Finally got around to grabbing a hosting service that works.

My YouTubes

Last edited by: LAI: Aug 9, 17 2:00
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Re: Bike fit exercise results (if you gave me your height and saddle height) [Slowman] [ In reply to ]
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Would still like to see what you say...🙂

Height 183cm
Saddle 78cm
Currently 625/470 or so pad stack/reach
Last edited by: zooropa: Aug 7, 17 14:26
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Re: Bike fit exercise results (if you gave me your height and saddle height) [Slowman] [ In reply to ]
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height: 6'3" or 190.5cm
saddle: 80.5cm

will add current stack/reach this evening
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Re: Bike fit exercise results (if you gave me your height and saddle height) [Slowman] [ In reply to ]
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Height: 6'2" (187.9cm)
Saddle Height: 81.9cm

CJ
Slow, Old Guy
Last edited by: HeyCJ: Aug 7, 17 14:34
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Re: Bike fit exercise results (if you gave me your height and saddle height) [Slowman] [ In reply to ]
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Slowman wrote:
love to see pics of you on the bike or of the bike itself at least.

note where you are on the chart above. no pro athletes anywhere in your solar system. just the other kooky folk.

bear in mind, if this tool i'm working on spat out 537/505 i would immediately change it. i'm confident there's no mix of morphology + riding ambitions that would generate 537/505.

that said, i'd be happy to eat my words where i harsh your position. but a pic is going to tell the story.

Okay got a better photo and confirmed my Y at 508mm. Pad drop is 160mm, so nothing crazy there (measured to the center of the saddle). Also, do you want pad thickness included in the X? I always include it, but it does compress some. Probably can pull 5mm out of the X due to pad compression and add it to the drop if you're pulling it.

Now, this position is really comfortable for me and it is one I have evolved into over a few years after initially being fitted in 2009. So, what about those numbers seems so crazy? Is it the combination? Or perhaps just the Y? Can't be the X, as that's not low at all for me. Remember I am a little guy.

Lastly, I ride the pointy bit of my elbow right around the middle of the pad and hold the shifters with barely any of the extension in my grip.


My YouTubes

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Re: Bike fit exercise results (if you gave me your height and saddle height) [Slowman] [ In reply to ]
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Current fit
Pad X: 485
Pad Y: 610

Only picture I've seen of myself racing on the new bike this season.


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Re: Bike fit exercise results (if you gave me your height and saddle height) [Slowman] [ In reply to ]
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1. what is your pad x/y?: 515/645
2. are you long in the torso or long of leg?: *very* long in the torso
3. anything else you want to say: Current fit is very similar to what I had been using for several years, only change was a few months ago during a Roadshow fit you suggested raising my pads a few cm, previous x/y was 515/625.

"I'm thinking of a number between 1 and 10, and I don't know why!"
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Re: Bike fit exercise results (if you gave me your height and saddle height) [Slowman] [ In reply to ]
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x = 520
y = 650

Not very low. Old guy just starting.
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Re: Bike fit exercise results (if you gave me your height and saddle height) [Slowman] [ In reply to ]
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Just got back from a weekend away so can check what I measured on Friday.

You had me at 590/474, I measured 554/450.

For the stack my number is skewed a bit since I run my seat a couple cm lower than a proper fit dictates, but otherwise I quickly develop pain on the outside of my knees.

Surprised you had my reach that much larger. When I do a uci regulations TT I actually have to swap out my 90 mm stem for a 70 mm stem to comply. I switched to a Sitero saddle this year which doesn't need adjusting to meet the uci 5xm behind the bb reg.
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Re: Bike fit exercise results (if you gave me your height and saddle height) [Slowman] [ In reply to ]
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One more for you:

To top of ISM saddle 81.5cm (from BB)
My height 185.5cm

BB is 27cm off the ground, measurement from BB to centre of saddle bracket (on Cervelo s5) is 75cm
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Re: Bike fit exercise results (if you gave me your height and saddle height) [Slowman] [ In reply to ]
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Pictures of my position plus posts/reply from original thread. Took pics with helmet on per Jens suggestion, one with leg at the bottom of the stroke and one at the top (roughly):





As I describe below I've moved pad x forward since my last fit while keeping saddle position and pad y constant (one 10 mm spacer under the pads, I have all the pieces to go higher or lower in 5 mm increments). I have plenty of room to move pad x forward or backward. Any thoughts/comments/critiques please let me know.

Northy wrote:
Slowman wrote:
Northy wrote:
Height: 6' 2"
Saddle height: 822 mm
Pad x: 527 mm
Pad y: 678 mm

what i have for you is

pad x = 500
pad y = 667

now, as to the difference in pad x (because pad y is pretty close). to me, 822mm of saddle height is tall for a guy 6'2". so, my predictor is adjusting your pads back a bit because it thinks you don't have a very long torso. i'd love to see a pic of your position, because you either:

1. ride VERY steep;
2. have a pretty big shoulder angle when you're in aero;
3. you measured pad x long;
4. i'm full of shit (always a possibility).


I'm no morphological freak but I do have long legs and short torso. Plus my effective seat tube angle is 80°.

Pretty interesting the the pad y is so close, and the pad x you predict is actually closer to the recommendation that Jonathan Blyer arrived at when he fit me: 484 mm to the center of the pad. I've been toying around with pad x over the past ~3 months while trying different extensions (original PD T5s were too short and I didn't like their low angle, currently on Vuka EVO 110s which are plenty long and a lot higher). With the greater length of the Vuka extensions I, perhaps unwisely, have moved the pads forward. Only the pad x though, I haven't changed pad y or seat position.
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Re: Bike fit exercise results (if you gave me your height and saddle height) [duckies] [ In reply to ]
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duckies wrote:
I'm curious to set my bike up as you're proscribing and see if I can tell a difference.

in this exercise - using an analogy - you gave me your ear length and height and i remotely prescribed your shoe size. therefore, my recommendation, don't do that! this exercise is me performing surgery with a butter knife. what you've come up with on your own using much better input and data than i've asked you to give me is certainly better than relying on my math.

Dan Empfield
aka Slowman
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Re: Bike fit exercise results (if you gave me your height and saddle height) [david] [ In reply to ]
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david wrote:
5'10'
saddle height 738mm

y = 620
x = 482

Dan Empfield
aka Slowman
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Re: Bike fit exercise results (if you gave me your height and saddle height) [zooropa] [ In reply to ]
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zooropa wrote:
Would still like to see what you say...🙂

Height 183cm
Saddle 78cm
Currently 625/470 or so pad stack/reach

y = 643
x = 491

Dan Empfield
aka Slowman
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Re: Bike fit exercise results (if you gave me your height and saddle height) [ctflower] [ In reply to ]
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ctflower wrote:
height: 6'3" or 190.5cm
saddle: 80.5cm

will add current stack/reach this evening

y = 668
x = 513

Dan Empfield
aka Slowman
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Re: Bike fit exercise results (if you gave me your height and saddle height) [HeyCJ] [ In reply to ]
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HeyCJ wrote:

Height: 6'2" (187.9cm)
Saddle Height: 81.9cm

y = 665
x = 501

Dan Empfield
aka Slowman
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Re: Bike fit exercise results (if you gave me your height and saddle height) [LAI] [ In reply to ]
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in my opinion, 160mm of pad drop is not crazy. for jordan rapp who's 6'3". your pad drop is fine, but it's very low, outlier low, for your morphology. otherwise...

i don't think you should change your position. but there is no way any prescriber could come up with your position based on your morphology. so for the purposes of this exercise i'm satisfied. thank you for helping out with this.

oh, and nice bike! ;-)


LAI wrote:
Slowman wrote:
love to see pics of you on the bike or of the bike itself at least.

note where you are on the chart above. no pro athletes anywhere in your solar system. just the other kooky folk.

bear in mind, if this tool i'm working on spat out 537/505 i would immediately change it. i'm confident there's no mix of morphology + riding ambitions that would generate 537/505.

that said, i'd be happy to eat my words where i harsh your position. but a pic is going to tell the story.


Okay got a better photo and confirmed my Y at 508mm. Pad drop is 160mm, so nothing crazy there (measured to the center of the saddle). Also, do you want pad thickness included in the X? I always include it, but it does compress some. Probably can pull 5mm out of the X due to pad compression and add it to the drop if you're pulling it.

Now, this position is really comfortable for me and it is one I have evolved into over a few years after initially being fitted in 2009. So, what about those numbers seems so crazy? Is it the combination? Or perhaps just the Y? Can't be the X, as that's not low at all for me. Remember I am a little guy.

Lastly, I ride the pointy bit of my elbow right around the middle of the pad and hold the shifters with barely any of the extension in my grip.

Dan Empfield
aka Slowman
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Re: Bike fit exercise results (if you gave me your height and saddle height) [geauxTT] [ In reply to ]
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geauxTT wrote:
Current fit
Pad X: 485
Pad Y: 610

i like your position, and i have you at 607/477 so i don't think my position prescriber would have recommended the wrong bike size in your case. thank you for your help.

Dan Empfield
aka Slowman
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Re: Bike fit exercise results (if you gave me your height and saddle height) [Warbird] [ In reply to ]
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Warbird wrote:
1. what is your pad x/y?: 515/645

in your case my prescriber would've miserably failed you. thank you for helping with this exercise.

Dan Empfield
aka Slowman
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Re: Bike fit exercise results (if you gave me your height and saddle height) [RonanIRL] [ In reply to ]
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RonanIRL wrote:
One more for you:

To top of ISM saddle 81.5cm (from BB)
My height 185.5cm

BB is 27cm off the ground, measurement from BB to centre of saddle bracket (on Cervelo s5) is 75cm

659/493

Dan Empfield
aka Slowman
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Re: Bike fit exercise results (if you gave me your height and saddle height) [Northy] [ In reply to ]
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i have no problem with your position. i do think your pic bears out what i thought, which is that you ride steep (which is fine) and you are on the pointy end of riding too stretched (but you don't cross that line). i think that sucks up the 25mm or so in extra length you have in your position versus what my prescriber indicates.

the purpose if this prescriber is to:

1. suggest fit coordinates that conform to a norm;
2. and then more importantly prescribe (for the bike company i'm helping here) the proper bike, if that bike is ordered site unseen and if the customer has no good sense of what his tri position should be.

so, considering the very limited utility of this prescriber, i'd say it was mission accomplished in your case. the prescriber would not have placed you in a bad position or, more importantly, prescribed the wrong size bike.

Dan Empfield
aka Slowman
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Re: Bike fit exercise results (if you gave me your height and saddle height) [Lucky489] [ In reply to ]
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Lucky489 wrote:
x = 520
y = 650

Not very low. Old guy just starting.

well, as you know what i had for you was 642/509. so either you have a pretty good sense of what your position should be or both you and my math are both off-base.

Dan Empfield
aka Slowman
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Re: Bike fit exercise results (if you gave me your height and saddle height) [Slowman] [ In reply to ]
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Slowman wrote:
david wrote:
5'10'
saddle height 738mm


y = 620
x = 482
--------------------------------------

From your in person fit of me (you said you would probably tinker further) on my current bike:
y = 640
x = 470

David
* Ironman for Life! (Blog) * IM Everyday Hero Video * Daggett Shuler Law *
Disclaimer: I have personal and professional relationships with many athletes, vendors, and organizations in the triathlon world.
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Re: Bike fit exercise results (if you gave me your height and saddle height) [david] [ In reply to ]
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david wrote:
Slowman wrote:
david wrote:
5'10'
saddle height 738mm


y = 620
x = 482

--------------------------------------

From your in person fit of me (you said you would probably tinker further) on my current bike:
y = 640
x = 470

i would call that a "math success" for the purposes of this exercise, which is to make sure that this direct bike seller is able to predict the correct size bike (at least) and for extra credit perhaps get close on the stem and pedestals as well. thank you for your help with this, david.

Dan Empfield
aka Slowman
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Re: Bike fit exercise results (if you gave me your height and saddle height) [Slowman] [ In reply to ]
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Slowman wrote:
geauxTT wrote:
Current fit
Pad X: 485
Pad Y: 610

i like your position, and i have you at 607/477 so i don't think my position prescriber would have recommended the wrong bike size in your case. thank you for your help.

My initial numbers are identical to geauxTT’s at 5’9 and 717mm so I was watching his results.

You prescribed 607 / 477
geauxTT is at 610 / 485
I am at 638 / 478 (see notes below)

Notes :
· geauxTT looks way better than me on his picture … ! lol
· I was at 644 / 455 but have recently changed to the 638 / 478 after A) becoming accustomed to a road bike, B) losing a bit of tum and C) finding I am comfy for 112.
· My pads are very squishy – seems reasonable to assume they will compress at least 5mm from those numbers above.
· I ride with elbows on pads.
· I do want to go a little lower, but want to be sure I am comfy in the ‘new’ position first.
· Current bike would allow me to go a lot lower.

WD :-)
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Re: Bike fit exercise results (if you gave me your height and saddle height) [Slowman] [ In reply to ]
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Slowman wrote:
for those of you who gave me your height and saddle height...
height=171cm (82cm inseam)
saddle height=71.5cm (Adamo, 4cm back from the nose)

Ale Martinez
www.amtriathlon.com
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Re: Bike fit exercise results (if you gave me your height and saddle height) [Slowman] [ In reply to ]
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Height: 6'1"
Saddle height: 747mm

Lots of torso, not much legs.
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Re: Bike fit exercise results (if you gave me your height and saddle height) [Slowman] [ In reply to ]
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From my retul reports my pad stack and reach are 619 and 459 (to back of pad)

So your reach calculation (468) is pretty close and the stack (583) is a little lower than where I am at now.
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Re: Bike fit exercise results (if you gave me your height and saddle height) [j.shanney] [ In reply to ]
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j.shanney wrote:
From my retul reports my pad stack and reach are 619 and 459 (to back of pad)

So your reach calculation (468) is pretty close and the stack (583) is a little lower than where I am at now.

does your retul report describe how your bike is set up? are you happy with it? and, do you have a pic of you aboard your bike, or, just a pic of your bike if you don't have a pic of you on it? and, of course, the pic has to be of you in a position you can identify (such as the retul position you mention).

Dan Empfield
aka Slowman
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Re: Bike fit exercise results (if you gave me your height and saddle height) [Zenmaster28] [ In reply to ]
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Zenmaster28 wrote:
Height: 6'1"
Saddle height: 747mm

Lots of torso, not much legs.
640/507

Dan Empfield
aka Slowman
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Re: Bike fit exercise results (if you gave me your height and saddle height) [Ale Martinez] [ In reply to ]
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Ale Martinez wrote:
Slowman wrote:
for those of you who gave me your height and saddle height...

height=171cm (82cm inseam)
saddle height=71.5cm (Adamo, 4cm back from the nose)

597/462

Dan Empfield
aka Slowman
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Re: Bike fit exercise results (if you gave me your height and saddle height) [Slowman] [ In reply to ]
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Slowman wrote:
Ale Martinez wrote:
Slowman wrote:
for those of you who gave me your height and saddle height...

height=171cm (82cm inseam)
saddle height=71.5cm (Adamo, 4cm back from the nose)


597/462

I measured 575/475; relatively short torso/long legs and arms, I think.

Ale Martinez
www.amtriathlon.com
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Re: Bike fit exercise results (if you gave me your height and saddle height) [Slowman] [ In reply to ]
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Slowman wrote:
j.shanney wrote:
From my retul reports my pad stack and reach are 619 and 459 (to back of pad)


So your reach calculation (468) is pretty close and the stack (583) is a little lower than where I am at now.


does your retul report describe how your bike is set up? are you happy with it? and, do you have a pic of you aboard your bike, or, just a pic of your bike if you don't have a pic of you on it? and, of course, the pic has to be of you in a position you can identify (such as the retul position you mention).



I have been happy with the fit. The main things I have changed since the initial fit was move the arm pads wider, and switch to an ISM saddle.









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Re: Bike fit exercise results (if you gave me your height and saddle height) [Slowman] [ In reply to ]
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I realize I am no use whatsoever to you in this exercise, but on the off chance that someone asks Cervelo what size road bike they should get that can be converted into TT (think TomA's S5) here's what I have now x: 415mm, y: 715mm. I have a relatively low seat angle that throws off my numbers I think.
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Re: Bike fit exercise results (if you gave me your height and saddle height) [Slowman] [ In reply to ]
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Slowman wrote:
Zenmaster28 wrote:
Height: 6'1"
Saddle height: 747mm

Lots of torso, not much legs.

640/507

Did you post somewhere how exactly you would measure? Or how to compare to a Retul report for which I have Arm Pad stack 608 and Arm pad reach of 479
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Re: Bike fit exercise results (if you gave me your height and saddle height) [Zenmaster28] [ In reply to ]
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here's how to measure pad x and y (or pad reach and stack). or at least where to measure it.



saddle height, bottom bracket center straight to the top of the saddle, 4cm behind the nose of the saddle.

in this case i believe your 608mm more than i believe my 640mm. however, that 608mm is going to give you pretty good drop, probably 135mm or 145mm, something like that, i'm guessing. which is fine.

now, the 479mm, retul measures to the back. so add 40mm to that, you're getting around 520mm to pad center. either you ride very steep, or you have pads considerably in front of your shoulders, or it's just that really really really long torso.

love to see a pic of you aboard your bike. your situation causes me to wonder if i'm not "honoring" morphology enough in my outputs.

Dan Empfield
aka Slowman
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Re: Bike fit exercise results (if you gave me your height and saddle height) [Slowman] [ In reply to ]
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Hi Dan,

My height = 1780mm (5'10")
My Saddle height = 728mm
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Re: Bike fit exercise results (if you gave me your height and saddle height) [Slowman] [ In reply to ]
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Ah ok, that 479 I gave you was saddle to arm pad, not BB to pad. So BB to back of pad is 464 + 40 for 504 which is almost exactly what you gave me.
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Re: Bike fit exercise results (if you gave me your height and saddle height) [Zenmaster28] [ In reply to ]
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my numbers are
182 cm
81.3 cm

Thanks
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Re: Bike fit exercise results (if you gave me your height and saddle height) [Slowman] [ In reply to ]
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You have me at 602/470 vs. 565/505. That puts me on the wrong size bike, but not by much. I've ridden 470 before, and say your stack has a 'safe' range of +/- 20 mm, so you'd really want to prescribe a bike that hits between 580 and 620 -- that would almost work. But not quite. And for this reason I still think you need a subjective assessment on how competitive this person expects to be. If I'm a Division 1 cross country runner or swimmer just getting into the sport, I may not know anything about bikes or fits, but I'd still want something consistent with my performance expectations. So in my case you'd err to a 51 P5 vs. a 54 P5, a 51 IA vs. a 54 IA, Small SC vs. Medium SC, etc. -- because you prescriber puts me too low on the bigger sizes stack envelope for what my goals are
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Re: Bike fit exercise results (if you gave me your height and saddle height) [Slowman] [ In reply to ]
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Slowman wrote:
now, the 479mm, retul measures to the back. so add 40mm to that, you're getting around 520mm to pad center. either you ride very steep, or you have pads considerably in front of your shoulders, or it's just that really really really long torso.

Do we need to add anything to your x/y to compare with the Stack/Reach Database? http://www.slowtwitch.com/stackreach/ I guess that is to top of frame rather than pads?

e.g. I have a -8deg 90mm stem with 3t aerobars, 10mm spacers blah blah which is x,y away from head tube?
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Re: Bike fit exercise results (if you gave me your height and saddle height) [Ai_1] [ In reply to ]
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Ai_1 wrote:

My height = 1780mm (5'10")
My Saddle height = 728mm

617/485

so, what are you riding now? and do you have a pic?

Dan Empfield
aka Slowman
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Re: Bike fit exercise results (if you gave me your height and saddle height) [Evgen] [ In reply to ]
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Evgen wrote:
my numbers are
182 cm
81.3 cm

650/481

Dan Empfield
aka Slowman
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Re: Bike fit exercise results (if you gave me your height and saddle height) [Slowman] [ In reply to ]
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My height is 1780 mm
Saddle height is 685 mm
Long torso, not much leg.
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Re: Bike fit exercise results (if you gave me your height and saddle height) [kileyay] [ In reply to ]
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kileyay wrote:
You have me at 602/470 vs. 565/505. That puts me on the wrong size bike, but not by much. I've ridden 470 before, and say your stack has a 'safe' range of +/- 20 mm, so you'd really want to prescribe a bike that hits between 580 and 620 -- that would almost work. But not quite. And for this reason I still think you need a subjective assessment on how competitive this person expects to be.


you and LAI are in the same boat. you see those guys well below and to the right of those red squares?



that's you. you and LAI. i'm not criticizing your positions. just, those red squares are male pros. what box should they be checking when asked how ardent their race ambitions?

your position is not orthodox. which is fine. be yourself, that's what i always say. but i can't "teach" you. i can't recommend you. i have to output for the fat of the bell curve, not for the outlier.

now, in reality, in 5 years you may come back and say, "well, my position has evolved." that's what happened to mark allen, after he won the ironwar. that's what's going to happen to matt hanson if it hasn't happened already. i can't skew the results toward the outliers knowing full well that history is on the side of orthodoxy.

Dan Empfield
aka Slowman
Last edited by: Slowman: Aug 9, 17 6:38
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Re: Bike fit exercise results (if you gave me your height and saddle height) [ballon] [ In reply to ]
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ballon wrote:
My height is 1780 mm
Saddle height is 685 mm
Long torso, not much leg.

605/494

remember, i'm not advocating my math! i'm using you to help me TEST my math.

Dan Empfield
aka Slowman
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Re: Bike fit exercise results (if you gave me your height and saddle height) [Slowman] [ In reply to ]
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Your math is very interesting.
My current measurement is ~610/505.
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Re: Bike fit exercise results (if you gave me your height and saddle height) [Slowman] [ In reply to ]
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Height - 5'9" or 175.2cm
Saddle Height - 705mm
Pad X - 500mm
Pad Y - 600mm

I have very short legs for my height (29-30" inseam) and am very long in torso

_________________________________
Fit Endurance Coaching - Head Coach|Facebook
USAT L1 Coach | BikeFit Certified Fitter | Contributing Writer - Triathlete Magazine | ROKA
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Re: Bike fit exercise results (if you gave me your height and saddle height) [JustinNorCal] [ In reply to ]
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JustinNorCal wrote:
Height - 5'9" or 175.2cm
Saddle Height - 705mm
Pad X - 500mm
Pad Y - 600mm

I have very short legs for my height (29-30" inseam) and am very long in torso

598/470

love to see a pic. the reason is, i need to know if i should amplify my coefficients that manipulate for morphological variance from the norm.

Dan Empfield
aka Slowman
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Re: Bike fit exercise results (if you gave me your height and saddle height) [Slowman] [ In reply to ]
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Slowman wrote:
JustinNorCal wrote:
Height - 5'9" or 175.2cm
Saddle Height - 705mm
Pad X - 500mm
Pad Y - 600mm

I have very short legs for my height (29-30" inseam) and am very long in torso


598/470

love to see a pic. the reason is, i need to know if i should amplify my coefficients that manipulate for morphological variance from the norm.
]

that's definitely a Star Trek quote.. right?!
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Re: Bike fit exercise results (if you gave me your height and saddle height) [Slowman] [ In reply to ]
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Slowman wrote:
JustinNorCal wrote:
Height - 5'9" or 175.2cm
Saddle Height - 705mm
Pad X - 500mm
Pad Y - 600mm

I have very short legs for my height (29-30" inseam) and am very long in torso


598/470

love to see a pic. the reason is, i need to know if i should amplify my coefficients that manipulate for morphological variance from the norm.

Sorry image is horrible



Have a new Speed Concept in Medium and waiting for back ordered LowFar (110/10) stem to come in to get my fit dialed.


_________________________________
Fit Endurance Coaching - Head Coach|Facebook
USAT L1 Coach | BikeFit Certified Fitter | Contributing Writer - Triathlete Magazine | ROKA
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Re: Bike fit exercise results (if you gave me your height and saddle height) [Slowman] [ In reply to ]
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Slowman wrote:
ctflower wrote:
height: 6'3" or 190.5cm
saddle: 80.5cm

will add current stack/reach this evening

y = 668
x = 513
Measured as best i could before looking at these. I'm at:
Y: 640
X: 500

I think higher is reasonable. Longer ... eh, maybe.
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Re: Bike fit exercise results (if you gave me your height and saddle height) [ctflower] [ In reply to ]
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I missed the first thread, but in case you are looking for some data from someone who is on the shorter side (relatively longer in leg than torso):

saddle height: 64.5 cm
height: 164 cm

pad x: 415
pad y: 595
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Re: Bike fit exercise results (if you gave me your height and saddle height) [Slowman] [ In reply to ]
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I want to play!

5'9-and-a-half
730mm ish saddle height from BB centre, measured in a straight line (not vertical height). That's using 165mm cranks.

A couple of clues.

I ride a steep seat tube angle, probably a bit forward of your mean value.
I featured in your article "Bike Solutions for Aliens" (no cheating!).

:-)

Rich.
Last edited by: knighty76: Aug 10, 17 3:33
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Re: Bike fit exercise results (if you gave me your height and saddle height) [JustinNorCal] [ In reply to ]
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JustinNorCal wrote:
Sorry image is horrible

image is great. and thank you and it somewhat places me at ease. if we're going to prescribe a bike using a static system like this with very minimal data input, what is really a bummer is getting the X axis wrong. it's easier to change Y. you pedestal, or unpedestal. but X is hard to change on superbikes, especially if they don't have a lot of fore/aft adjustability as many of them don't.

in your case we nailed it on the Y but you had 30mm more X than our prediction and that was worrisome for the "system" devised. but looking at your position, it would be hard to prescribe this position. don't get me wrong, it's a good position. but you're quite forward it looks like to me. more so than the typical rider.

now, i'd like it if we were a little closer to this position of yours. maybe only 15mm or 20mm back of your position. but if your position was dead on center of the tri bike riding public and we prescribed 30mm rearward of that, i'd be more concerned than i am.

but this feeds into another theme of mind that i'll be publishing on within a few days, which is a worrisome trend among bike makers to shrink the fit window of their superbikes.

Dan Empfield
aka Slowman
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Re: Bike fit exercise results (if you gave me your height and saddle height) [Slowman] [ In reply to ]
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I'm curious how it differs, if at all, from the fit I ended up with at the ST fit workshop in February.

Height: 5'6"
Saddle Height: 705mm

http://www.clperformancetraining.com
http://www.pillasport.ca
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Re: Bike fit exercise results (if you gave me your height and saddle height) [Slowman] [ In reply to ]
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I'm 5'10 - saddle height 735mm

What say you?

Swimming Workout of the Day:

Favourite Swim Sets:

2020 National Masters Champion - M50-54 - 50m Butterfly
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Re: Bike fit exercise results (if you gave me your height and saddle height) [al-gorithm] [ In reply to ]
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al-gorithm wrote:
I'm curious how it differs, if at all, from the fit I ended up with at the ST fit workshop in February.

Height: 5'6"
Saddle Height: 705mm

me curious too. 587/452

Dan Empfield
aka Slowman
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Re: Bike fit exercise results (if you gave me your height and saddle height) [Slowman] [ In reply to ]
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Re: Bike fit exercise results (if you gave me your height and saddle height) [al-gorithm] [ In reply to ]
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al-gorithm wrote:
Pad Xr: 397
Pad Xc: 437
Pad Y: 607

did i try to move you forward and lower? if so, how did that go? i don't remember. in any case, we're not horribly off. my prescription is 20mm lower and 15mm further forward. my math prescribes you as being just one step more aggressive, but, in scale. in proportion. if you go forward you probably go lower, and by that rough amount.

having said that, if you and i agreed that 607/437 was the best outcome, i would trust THAT more than i would trust arbitrary math.

Dan Empfield
aka Slowman
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Re: Bike fit exercise results (if you gave me your height and saddle height) [Slowman] [ In reply to ]
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I actually have gone further out (20mm) and a little lower now (10mm) on my fit bike which I feel is even more comfortable but have only translated the x and not the y to my current bike.

http://www.clperformancetraining.com
http://www.pillasport.ca
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Re: Bike fit exercise results (if you gave me your height and saddle height) [Slowman] [ In reply to ]
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Here's my information for the data pool:

1.
Pad X = 470mm
Pad Y = 597mm
Saddle height = 673mm

2.
Height = 5'5" (165cm)
Inseam = 30.5" (77.5cm)
Not sure if this is considered long or short of torso/legs.

3.
I'm riding a XS Spec. Shiv with a 110/-20 stem with no spacers; 20mm of pedestal under the armpads.
Last edited by: Sim: Aug 10, 17 15:14
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Re: Bike fit exercise results (if you gave me your height and saddle height) [Sim] [ In reply to ]
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i have you at 571/450. i'd like to see a pic. there are a few of you who have longer padx than i'm coming up with, esp in the smaller configs.

Dan Empfield
aka Slowman
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Re: Bike fit exercise results (if you gave me your height and saddle height) [Slowman] [ In reply to ]
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Sorry... I was slow to get back to my bike to measure. Mine are reasonably close...

The analysis came up with 620/474. My HY is 641 and HX is 467. The 641 measurement is to top of pads. However, I suspect that I am too tall at the moment, because I am slow for my power, so I am planning to submit my position to the forum for analysis once I get a camera setup to do some picture taking and videoing.
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Re: Bike fit exercise results (if you gave me your height and saddle height) [exxxviii] [ In reply to ]
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Saddle height: 730mm
Pad Y: 629mm
Pad X: 500mm

My height: 179cm
Would say I lean more towards long(er) torso
165mm cranks
M Shiv
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Re: Bike fit exercise results (if you gave me your height and saddle height) [Slowman] [ In reply to ]
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Height : 5'11'' (long torso)
Saddle height : 735mm

Pad x : 530mm
Pad y : 560mm

Consulting your chart, I note that my pad x/y is quite unorthodox...

I am riding a size 54 Cervelo NP3, with 120mm -35 stem , 3T vola bars with pad forward and extensions under the bar. I am thinking of changing my bike next year, but can't find anything that will fit without crazy stem angles. Any ideas? Would I be better off on a size 51 P3 (kind of crazy at 5'11'')?

Here are a few pictures of my position (training setup). Not the best pictures, but it gives you an idea.

Thanks Dan.







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Re: Bike fit exercise results (if you gave me your height and saddle height) [BMS] [ In reply to ]
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BMS wrote:
Saddle height: 730mm
Pad Y: 629mm
Pad X: 500mm

My height: 179cm
Would say I lean more towards long(er) torso
165mm cranks
M Shiv

620/488

Dan Empfield
aka Slowman
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Re: Bike fit exercise results (if you gave me your height and saddle height) [exxxviii] [ In reply to ]
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exxxviii wrote:
Sorry... I was slow to get back to my bike to measure. Mine are reasonably close...

The analysis came up with 620/474. My HY is 641 and HX is 467. The 641 measurement is to top of pads. However, I suspect that I am too tall at the moment, because I am slow for my power, so I am planning to submit my position to the forum for analysis once I get a camera setup to do some picture taking and videoing.

just as a point of order, did i write HY and HX somewhere? if so that was my mistake. HY and HX are terms of art and refer to the handlebar clamp, that is, where the handlebar (pursuit bar in this case) pass through the stem. PadY and PadX are obviously different.

don't assume that my math is a more important driver than the other drivers that you use to dial your position. i'm asking you for the length of your index finger and the circumference of your head and from that i'm calcuating what foods are likely to give you indigestion. that's a like analogy. there are better and more direct ways of knowing what will give you indigestion.

Dan Empfield
aka Slowman
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Re: Bike fit exercise results (if you gave me your height and saddle height) [Slowman] [ In reply to ]
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Slowman wrote:
just as a point of order, did i write HY and HX somewhere? if so that was my mistake. HY and HX are terms of art and refer to the handlebar clamp, that is, where the handlebar (pursuit bar in this case) pass through the stem. PadY and PadX are obviously different.

don't assume that my math is a more important driver than the other drivers that you use to dial your position. i'm asking you for the length of your index finger and the circumference of your head and from that i'm calcuating what foods are likely to give you indigestion. that's a like analogy. there are better and more direct ways of knowing what will give you indigestion.
No... I used one of your sizing sheets with HX/HY on it when I recorded the measurements. I just parroted what was on the sheet. My actual measurements were PadY and PadX.

And, I definitely did not assume that the magic math was more important than the drivers in my fit. It is just another little tweak that makes me suspect I could further optimize my position. I feel like I am sitting a ton more upright than everyone else. And, others here are posting much faster times on same power as I ride. So, I have been planning a follow-up with both a local fitter and on ST to see if I can get faster.
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Re: Bike fit exercise results (if you gave me your height and saddle height) [Slowman] [ In reply to ]
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179cm height

740mm saddle.

Pad stack: 590mm
Pad reach: 505mm
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Re: Bike fit exercise results (if you gave me your height and saddle height) [Triagain3] [ In reply to ]
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Triagain3 wrote:
179cm height

740mm saddle.

Pad stack: 590mm
Pad reach: 505mm

623/486

you know you could almost switch bikes with BMS just above.

i would always trust drivers achieved on the bike over my math. just, when padx and pady creep closer to each other, such as fewer than 100mm apart from each other for a rider aboard a size L or 56cm or 58cm bike, that's a sign of a very aggressive position, even if you're long torsoed. while this position may in fact be correct for you, i wouldn't expect my math to generate such a position.

Dan Empfield
aka Slowman
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Re: Bike fit exercise results (if you gave me your height and saddle height) [Slowman] [ In reply to ]
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Slowman wrote:
Triagain3 wrote:
179cm height

740mm saddle.

Pad stack: 590mm
Pad reach: 505mm


623/486

you know you could almost switch bikes with BMS just above.

i would always trust drivers achieved on the bike over my math. just, when padx and pady creep closer to each other, such as fewer than 100mm apart from each other for a rider aboard a size L or 56cm or 58cm bike, that's a sign of a very aggressive position, even if you're long torsoed. while this position may in fact be correct for you, i wouldn't expect my math to generate such a position.

I am on a Large Spec. transition. I have a -45 adjustable stem (long story).
I have never been more comfortable on this bike than these last 2 months since lower the front end with this stem. Power is also up.
My local dealer carries Specialized and Trek. But not sure I can fit either bike.

Here is my current position:
https://www.facebook.com/...p;type=3&theater
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Re: Bike fit exercise results (if you gave me your height and saddle height) [Triagain3] [ In reply to ]
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Triagain3 wrote:
Slowman wrote:
Triagain3 wrote:
179cm height

740mm saddle.

Pad stack: 590mm
Pad reach: 505mm


623/486

you know you could almost switch bikes with BMS just above.

i would always trust drivers achieved on the bike over my math. just, when padx and pady creep closer to each other, such as fewer than 100mm apart from each other for a rider aboard a size L or 56cm or 58cm bike, that's a sign of a very aggressive position, even if you're long torsoed. while this position may in fact be correct for you, i wouldn't expect my math to generate such a position.


I am on a Large Spec. transition. I have a -45 adjustable stem (long story).
I have never been more comfortable on this bike than these last 2 months since lower the front end with this stem. Power is also up.
My local dealer carries Specialized and Trek. But not sure I can fit either bike.

Here is my current position:
https://www.facebook.com/...p;type=3&theater

i wouldn't counsel any change. that said, on paper, saddle height of 740mm, typical pro or top AG triathlete, the expected armrest elevation drop is about 12.5cm to 13cm, something like that. my guess is you're 16cm, 17cm, maybe more. i don't know.

the reason we don't want those big drops is because you lose mechanical advantage at TDC. however, you can ameliorate that by moving the saddle forward (opening that hip angle back up) and also by going to shorter cranks (making the top of TDC not quite so close to your torso).

because we are afraid of power diminishing with a really low pads position, if your power actually increased then we don't have to worry about that. that's why the math i'm using for this exercise is not for outliers. it's intended to drive you toward the norm because this math is the result of a wager, that if you're buying a bike you haven't seen, and you have no idea what size you should buy and how it should be configured, we'll wager toward the fat of the bell curve of good riders who ride good positions. you're not on the high point of the bell curve. not everyone should be there. you obviously are a case where you need to deviate from the fat of the bell curve.

Dan Empfield
aka Slowman
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Re: Bike fit exercise results (if you gave me your height and saddle height) [Slowman] [ In reply to ]
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Very cool information.

I believe my old position was closer to the fat part of the bell curve. I have been working on getting lower for a few years now.
I use 165cm cranks. Just by luck my road bike and Tri bike have the exact seat height as measured from the flat part of the pedals to the seat. I ride the exact same seat and pedals/shoes with both bikes.


I have added pictures of last years position and this years position
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Re: Bike fit exercise results (if you gave me your height and saddle height) [Triagain3] [ In reply to ]
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This new position
Quote Reply
Re: Bike fit exercise results (if you gave me your height and saddle height) [Triagain3] [ In reply to ]
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Triagain3 wrote:
This new position


i MUCH prefer your knew position. just, it is my guess that the MAIN reason your new position grants you more power is what looks to me like a significant move forward. the only thing i would question is whether you're better where you now are or whether raising your bars 1cm or 2cm might generate even more power. i think that's what you have to tune, otherwise i like where you are. for example, here's me from a few years ago:



i think the main difference between you and me is i might be that 1cm or 2cm higher in front than you.

Dan Empfield
aka Slowman
Last edited by: Slowman: Aug 11, 17 10:02
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Re: Bike fit exercise results (if you gave me your height and saddle height) [Slowman] [ In reply to ]
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x = 528
y = 622
height 6'2" inseam 34" so long torso I guess
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Re: Bike fit exercise results (if you gave me your height and saddle height) [Slowman] [ In reply to ]
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When I star doing some Aero testing I can evaluate a slightly higher position. I have an adjustable stem on the bike, so it is an easy change.

Right now the power I can generate is within 10 watts of my road bike position (to the best of my ability to compare the two power meters). But I need some time to figure that out. After a race on Sunday I will be spending a few rides with my powertap wheel on the tri bike and two computers so I can nail down the difference between the two.

The new position reflects changes you advised my on last year. So I am glad you prefer it.
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Re: Bike fit exercise results (if you gave me your height and saddle height) [Triagain3] [ In reply to ]
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Triagain3 wrote:
The new position reflects changes you advised my on last year.

well, in that case, your new position looks perfect! change nothing! ;-)

Dan Empfield
aka Slowman
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Re: Bike fit exercise results (if you gave me your height and saddle height) [Slowman] [ In reply to ]
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Height: 6' 1.5"
Saddle height: 800 mm
Pad x: 505 mm
Pad y: 615 mm

http://www.verynooty.com
Quote Reply
Re: Bike fit exercise results (if you gave me your height and saddle height) [BigH] [ In reply to ]
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BigH wrote:
Height: 6' 1.5"
Saddle height: 800 mm
Pad x: 505 mm
Pad y: 615 mm

657/501

just know that my math adds by design 20mm to the PadY of a top pro / top AGer, because i think the typical buyer will be slightly higher than the typical top pro. so if you were a competitive pro my math would prescribe 637/501mm and that always comes with a +/- 20mm for PadY. in other words, my math assumes, for all comers, math for a competitive pro, just adjusted to the least-aggressive point in the +/- range.

Dan Empfield
aka Slowman
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Re: Bike fit exercise results (if you gave me your height and saddle height) [Slowman] [ In reply to ]
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Height 6'3
Saddle 81.5 cm
Long Torso

Pad X - 533
Pad Y - 645
Quote Reply
Re: Bike fit exercise results (if you gave me your height and saddle height) [Slowman] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
These were my original measurements for height of 5'9"
Pad x 472
Pad y 609
Saddle height 747
Saddle set back -6
Saddle to pads drop 127




But over a few races I realized I was straining my neck too much to look ahead. So ended up pedestaling the pads by 30mm to effectively get this

Pad x 472
Pad y 639
Saddle height 747
Saddle set back -6
Saddle to pads drop 97

And here is my position from IMC




Quote Reply
Re: Bike fit exercise results (if you gave me your height and saddle height) [harshc] [ In reply to ]
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harshc wrote:
These were my original measurements for height of 5'9"
Pad x 472
Pad y 609
Saddle height 747
Saddle set back -6
Saddle to pads drop 127

But over a few races I realized I was straining my neck too much to look ahead. So ended up pedestaling the pads by 30mm to effectively get this

Pad x 472
Pad y 639
Saddle height 747
Saddle set back -6
Saddle to pads drop 97

And here is my position from IMC

my math for you yields 617/471, which i'm comfortable with. on padx you and my math agree. on pady my math thinks you need to lower your bars 20mm, but keep them still 10mm higher than your original position. i think you too would like your bars lower, but your spinal stenosis or whatever it is you have that keeps you from looking up when in aero precludes you from having your bars that low.

Dan Empfield
aka Slowman
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Re: Bike fit exercise results (if you gave me your height and saddle height) [Slowman] [ In reply to ]
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I tried the 10mm pedestal for quite a bit after the initial fit ( that first fit was with the alpha X completely slammed) and then just went on the side of comfort and added another 20. Something about craning my neck to look ahead would just hurt. I would love to go lower on the front end.
Quote Reply
Re: Bike fit exercise results (if you gave me your height and saddle height) [Tony5] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Tony5 wrote:
Height 6'3
Saddle 81.5 cm
Long Torso

Pad X - 533
Pad Y - 645

my math says 670/511. but trust your set up, not my math. for example, my math wants you to be 10mm higher than the mean armrest elevation of a quality pro. that means my 670mm really is 650mm if you're a quality pro. still, i'd love to see a pic. we're off by 20mm on X. but i can believe your 533mm. still, i'd like to see it.

Dan Empfield
aka Slowman
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Re: Bike fit exercise results (if you gave me your height and saddle height) [Slowman] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Slowman wrote:

1. what is your pad x/y?
2. are you long in the torso or long of leg?
3. anything else you want to say.

Ok, would be great to hear your thoughts to this. Hope I converted it right.

1. Saddle height 740, pad stack 615, pad reach 490
2. 5.10" height , 33.85 inseam
3. 170 crank

-shoki
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Re: Bike fit exercise results (if you gave me your height and saddle height) [Slowman] [ In reply to ]
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Another data point for you. My wife is 5'11", saddle height 804mm - lots of legs.
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Re: Bike fit exercise results (if you gave me your height and saddle height) [Zenmaster28] [ In reply to ]
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Hi Slowman,

I didn't want to start a new topic since everyone seems to start one right now to get help with their fit based on your calculator, so I thought I should ask it here.

The Diamondback calculator gives me Pad X = 468mm and Pad Y = 602mm for a length of 1698mm and saddle height of 681mm.
However, my recent fit (Pinarello Dogma 65.1 Think 2 converted with Profile clip on aero bars etc) got me a Pad X of 395mm and Y of 580mm (measured to the center of the pad)..

So my bars should be higher but further to the front? My lower back tends to start bothering me a bit on 26+ mile rides so a longer stem seems like it wouldn't really help?
Quote Reply
Re: Bike fit exercise results (if you gave me your height and saddle height) [shoki] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
shoki wrote:
Slowman wrote:


1. what is your pad x/y?
2. are you long in the torso or long of leg?
3. anything else you want to say.


Ok, would be great to hear your thoughts to this. Hope I converted it right.

1. Saddle height 740, pad stack 615, pad reach 490
2. 5.10" height , 33.85 inseam
3. 170 crank

there's a little glitch in the calculator online. the math actually gives you 620/482. but the online calculator is the calculator of last resort, to be clear.

Dan Empfield
aka Slowman
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Re: Bike fit exercise results (if you gave me your height and saddle height) [Tri_Joeri] [ In reply to ]
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Tri_Joeri wrote:
Hi Slowman,

I didn't want to start a new topic since everyone seems to start one right now to get help with their fit based on your calculator, so I thought I should ask it here.

The Diamondback calculator gives me Pad X = 468mm and Pad Y = 602mm for a length of 1698mm and saddle height of 681mm.
However, my recent fit (Pinarello Dogma 65.1 Think 2 converted with Profile clip on aero bars etc) got me a Pad X of 395mm and Y of 580mm (measured to the center of the pad)..

So my bars should be higher but further to the front? My lower back tends to start bothering me a bit on 26+ mile rides so a longer stem seems like it wouldn't really help?

calculator has a glitch. actual math gives you 585/466

now, as to the pinarello, i don't believe 395mm for pad x center. remeasure. or post a pic to explain how this came about.

Dan Empfield
aka Slowman
Quote Reply
Re: Bike fit exercise results (if you gave me your height and saddle height) [Slowman] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Slowman wrote:
Tri_Joeri wrote:
Hi Slowman,


I didn't want to start a new topic since everyone seems to start one right now to get help with their fit based on your calculator, so I thought I should ask it here.

The Diamondback calculator gives me Pad X = 468mm and Pad Y = 602mm for a length of 1698mm and saddle height of 681mm.
However, my recent fit (Pinarello Dogma 65.1 Think 2 converted with Profile clip on aero bars etc) got me a Pad X of 395mm and Y of 580mm (measured to the center of the pad)..

So my bars should be higher but further to the front? My lower back tends to start bothering me a bit on 26+ mile rides so a longer stem seems like it wouldn't really help?


calculator has a glitch. actual math gives you 585/466

now, as to the pinarello, i don't believe 395mm for pad x center. remeasure. or post a pic to explain how this came about.


Ok so Pad Y is pretty close (I measured to the middle of the pad because it compresses a bit, so not to the top).

It's a size 51.5 with a 90mm stem, center of the saddle to center BB is 198mm if that's useful.
Measured from center BB to center pad, not the best pic but still can't be far off of 395mm..:






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Re: Bike fit exercise results (if you gave me your height and saddle height) [Slowman] [ In reply to ]
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Yeah, played a little with the calculator yesterday.....for ballpark pretty darn close though.

-shoki
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Re: Bike fit exercise results (if you gave me your height and saddle height) [Tri_Joeri] [ In reply to ]
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Tri_Joeri wrote:
Slowman wrote:
Tri_Joeri wrote:
Hi Slowman,


I didn't want to start a new topic since everyone seems to start one right now to get help with their fit based on your calculator, so I thought I should ask it here.

The Diamondback calculator gives me Pad X = 468mm and Pad Y = 602mm for a length of 1698mm and saddle height of 681mm.
However, my recent fit (Pinarello Dogma 65.1 Think 2 converted with Profile clip on aero bars etc) got me a Pad X of 395mm and Y of 580mm (measured to the center of the pad)..

So my bars should be higher but further to the front? My lower back tends to start bothering me a bit on 26+ mile rides so a longer stem seems like it wouldn't really help?


calculator has a glitch. actual math gives you 585/466

now, as to the pinarello, i don't believe 395mm for pad x center. remeasure. or post a pic to explain how this came about.


Ok so Pad Y is pretty close (I measured to the middle of the pad because it compresses a bit, so not to the top).

It's a size 51.5 with a 90mm stem, center of the saddle to center BB is 198mm if that's useful.
Measured from center BB to center pad, not the best pic but still can't be far off of 395mm..:



i had no doubt the tape read 398 or 395 or whatever you quoted. what i suspect is either:

1. you're sitting waaaay back;
2. the bike isn't level;
3. you're measuring from spot other than where pad x is measured from.

so maybe we start with point 3: where is the other end of that tape?

Dan Empfield
aka Slowman
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Re: Bike fit exercise results (if you gave me your height and saddle height) [Slowman] [ In reply to ]
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Slowman wrote:
Tri_Joeri wrote:
Slowman wrote:
Tri_Joeri wrote:
Hi Slowman,


I didn't want to start a new topic since everyone seems to start one right now to get help with their fit based on your calculator, so I thought I should ask it here.

The Diamondback calculator gives me Pad X = 468mm and Pad Y = 602mm for a length of 1698mm and saddle height of 681mm.
However, my recent fit (Pinarello Dogma 65.1 Think 2 converted with Profile clip on aero bars etc) got me a Pad X of 395mm and Y of 580mm (measured to the center of the pad)..

So my bars should be higher but further to the front? My lower back tends to start bothering me a bit on 26+ mile rides so a longer stem seems like it wouldn't really help?


calculator has a glitch. actual math gives you 585/466

now, as to the pinarello, i don't believe 395mm for pad x center. remeasure. or post a pic to explain how this came about.


Ok so Pad Y is pretty close (I measured to the middle of the pad because it compresses a bit, so not to the top).

It's a size 51.5 with a 90mm stem, center of the saddle to center BB is 198mm if that's useful.
Measured from center BB to center pad, not the best pic but still can't be far off of 395mm..:




i had no doubt the tape read 398 or 395 or whatever you quoted. what i suspect is either:

1. you're sitting waaaay back;
2. the bike isn't level;
3. you're measuring from spot other than where pad x is measured from.

so maybe we start with point 3: where is the other end of that tape?


It's measured like this: Bike held straight via a level, plumb which goes through the center of the BB and distance measured from the cord.
Might not be super accurate but it won't be 6cm off..




So can I assume I'm sitting too far back? I don't have a trainer so no moving images, but I could show a pic of my position if you want.
BTW thanks a lot for your time and feedback! Much appreciated.
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Re: Bike fit exercise results (if you gave me your height and saddle height) [Tri_Joeri] [ In reply to ]
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i would love to see where your saddle nose is on that image. it's too dark, i can't see the saddle or where it's positioned.

Dan Empfield
aka Slowman
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Re: Bike fit exercise results (if you gave me your height and saddle height) [Slowman] [ In reply to ]
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Slowman wrote:
i would love to see where your saddle nose is on that image. it's too dark, i can't see the saddle or where it's positioned.



Hope this is clear enough:





Tip of the saddle is around 22mm to center BB, again with the bike leveled and using a plumb. BB to the center of the saddle is 198mm.
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Re: Bike fit exercise results (if you gave me your height and saddle height) [Tri_Joeri] [ In reply to ]
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ah. okay. you're riding an ITU style position. i think i should have been a little more clear on what this calculator is designed to calculate!

Dan Empfield
aka Slowman
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