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Secondhand Dimond
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EDIT I don't dispute that the original pricing for the fork was in fact $1200. I didn't know that at the time I posted, and don't feel less justified to have thought the way I did since the only evidence of that price was a brief mention of it in a year and a half old tririg article I had never seen and the way Dimond communicated with me about it, seemed as though they were pulling numbers out of the air. Regardless, this doesn't change greater issue of their approach to their own mistakes, and the rude way in which I was treated. END EDIT

This is really just to serve as a warning. After buying a Dimond Brilliant through Pros Closet, it became clear that the previous owner cut the steerer tube too short. I contacted Brad Bach at Dimond via telephone and told him the situation. He he told me that a replacement Superfork sold for $600. Expensive but understandable. Upon following up with him via email about lead time and to start the ordering process. He informed me that it would be $1200 for the superfork. When I called later to question the change, he told me that $600 is how much they charged people who had bought full priced bikes from them (he knew from the first minute we spoke, that I had purchased secondhand), and that $1200 would be my price. I pressed further, he said he would sell one to me for $600, only if I made referral that resulted in the purchase of a full price bike. When I pressed him on the matter of questionable customer service in quoting a price, then doubling it (which he does not deny doing), he told me what I suspected all along. They doubled the price, just for me!
"Nate, we have never sold a superfork to a non-customer before, and I don't plan to start doing that anytime soon. The $600 price is for Dimond customers. I'm sorry the exception I was going to give to you isn't enough."
They should just say it from the start. "If you didn't buy it from us, then fuck off."
Last edited by: getbarreled: Apr 27, 17 15:25
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Re: Secondhand Dimond [getbarreled] [ In reply to ]
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getbarreled wrote:
This is really just to serve as a warning. After buying a Dimond Brilliant through Pros Closet, it became clear that the previous owner cut the steerer tube too short. I contacted Brad Bach at Dimond via telephone and told him the situation. He he told me that a replacement Superfork sold for $600. Expensive but understandable. Upon following up with him via email about lead time and to start the ordering process. He informed me that it would be $1200 for the superfork. When I called later to question the change, he told me that $600 is how much they charged people who had bought full priced bikes from them (he knew from the first minute we spoke, that I had purchased secondhand), and that $1200 would be my price. I pressed further, he said he would sell one to me for $600, only if I made referral that resulted in the purchase of a full price bike. When I pressed him on the matter of questionable customer service in quoting a price, then doubling it (which he does not deny doing), he told me what I suspected all along. They doubled the price, just for me!
"Nate, we have never sold a superfork to a non-customer before, and I don't plan to start doing that anytime soon. The $600 price is for Dimond customers. I'm sorry the exception I was going to give to you isn't enough."
They should just say it from the start. "If you didn't buy it from us, then fuck off."

I certainly don't think they are saying "fuck off", but I do think they want to make it clear there are advantages to being an original owner. To me, it sounds like a business process mistake because it was a first of its kind. FWIW, I remember when I paid retail for MY first Speed Concept and my fork. They couldn't get me one for nearly a month because the bike was selling so well and they just didn't have any. Frustrating to deal with no doubt so I can feel your pain.


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Re: Secondhand Dimond [Thomas Gerlach] [ In reply to ]
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Thomas Gerlach wrote:
getbarreled wrote:
This is really just to serve as a warning. After buying a Dimond Brilliant through Pros Closet, it became clear that the previous owner cut the steerer tube too short. I contacted Brad Bach at Dimond via telephone and told him the situation. He he told me that a replacement Superfork sold for $600. Expensive but understandable. Upon following up with him via email about lead time and to start the ordering process. He informed me that it would be $1200 for the superfork. When I called later to question the change, he told me that $600 is how much they charged people who had bought full priced bikes from them (he knew from the first minute we spoke, that I had purchased secondhand), and that $1200 would be my price. I pressed further, he said he would sell one to me for $600, only if I made referral that resulted in the purchase of a full price bike. When I pressed him on the matter of questionable customer service in quoting a price, then doubling it (which he does not deny doing), he told me what I suspected all along. They doubled the price, just for me!
"Nate, we have never sold a superfork to a non-customer before, and I don't plan to start doing that anytime soon. The $600 price is for Dimond customers. I'm sorry the exception I was going to give to you isn't enough."
They should just say it from the start. "If you didn't buy it from us, then fuck off."

I certainly don't think they are saying "fuck off", but I do think they want to make it clear there are advantages to being an original owner. To me, it sounds like a business process mistake because it was a first of its kind. FWIW, I remember when I paid retail for MY first Speed Concept and my fork. They couldn't get me one for nearly a month because the bike was selling so well and they just didn't have any. Frustrating to deal with no doubt so I can feel your pain.

I can understand that it's uncharted territory for them and all that. I even get that you want to show that being an original owner has its advantages. It's just very bad form to tell someone a price without stipulation, then double it and say "tough titties"
This would have been the only Dimond on the road for 100 miles and I would have worshipped all things about it's existence to everyone I met. Instead, it's going back to Pros Closet.
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Re: Secondhand Dimond [getbarreled] [ In reply to ]
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Saw that frame on ebay. Could you make the current fork work by using a tri bar set that has a good amount of rise under the arm pads?
Also, I believe you can use any fork with the frame, no? But I can understand you wanting the nicer brilliant fork.
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Re: Secondhand Dimond [SBRcoffee] [ In reply to ]
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SBRcoffee wrote:
Saw that frame on ebay. Could you make the current fork work by using a tri bar set that has a good amount of rise under the arm pads?
Also, I believe you can use any fork with the frame, no? But I can understand you wanting the nicer brilliant fork.

Yes, I bought a 3T Funda fork that will work fine for it. The fork it came with would be unsafe no matter what you do. It was definitely miscut.
I just am having a hard time with the idea of riding a bike when the brand has taken the approach that they have with me.
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Re: Secondhand Dimond [getbarreled] [ In reply to ]
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Ah, thats too bad about the fork being cut wrong.

While I know you're pissed that he changed the price after your first convo with him, I have to admit when I first started reading your post, I was really surprised when you said they offered it for $600.

They sell frames new at 4200 for Xcut, and 6k for brilliant. According to their site, the xcut uses the same layup as the brilliant. So they basically charge their own customers, buying brand new, 1800 for the superfork upgrade. Would seem pretty odd to offer it to you for 600.

Anyway, I guess its a moot point since you are returning it.
Last edited by: SBRcoffee: Apr 7, 17 9:57
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Re: Secondhand Dimond [getbarreled] [ In reply to ]
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Not a fan of the customer service you received, but there may be a way around it. Can you find someone who is an original Dimond owner, give them $600, then have them order it?
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Re: Secondhand Dimond [getbarreled] [ In reply to ]
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getbarreled wrote:
This is really just to serve as a warning. After buying a Dimond Brilliant through Pros Closet, it became clear that the previous owner cut the steerer tube too short. I contacted Brad Bach at Dimond via telephone and told him the situation. He he told me that a replacement Superfork sold for $600. Expensive but understandable. Upon following up with him via email about lead time and to start the ordering process. He informed me that it would be $1200 for the superfork. When I called later to question the change, he told me that $600 is how much they charged people who had bought full priced bikes from them (he knew from the first minute we spoke, that I had purchased secondhand), and that $1200 would be my price. I pressed further, he said he would sell one to me for $600, only if I made referral that resulted in the purchase of a full price bike. When I pressed him on the matter of questionable customer service in quoting a price, then doubling it (which he does not deny doing), he told me what I suspected all along. They doubled the price, just for me!
"Nate, we have never sold a superfork to a non-customer before, and I don't plan to start doing that anytime soon. The $600 price is for Dimond customers. I'm sorry the exception I was going to give to you isn't enough."
They should just say it from the start. "If you didn't buy it from us, then fuck off."

Wow. Not only did they just lose a sell, they lost a customer.

So he will only sell you one for $600 if you convince someone to buy a bike from them. That is ridiculous. Do any other companies do this if you are not the original owner?

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Re: Secondhand Dimond [BryanD] [ In reply to ]
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This is a different approach but yes, for instance at my Trek dealer I get something like 20% off because when I buy a bike retail I am a "preferred customer"


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Re: Secondhand Dimond [Thomas Gerlach] [ In reply to ]
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Thomas Gerlach wrote:
This is a different approach but yes, for instance at my Trek dealer I get something like 20% off because when I buy a bike retail I am a "preferred customer"

Does everyone get 20% off or do you because you ride a Trek?

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Re: Secondhand Dimond [getbarreled] [ In reply to ]
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Post the whole email conversation if you're going to call them out, no paraphrasing. Don't we have some Dimond guys on the forum? Maybe they'll chime in. What happens if you break the seatpost/beam and aren't the original owner, do you scrap the bike? Some stuff might help folks in the future looking for a secondhand bike.

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Last edited by: leegoocrap: Apr 7, 17 10:48
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Re: Secondhand Dimond [getbarreled] [ In reply to ]
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This is something you should bring up with Pro's Closet. It's a second hand bike, so technically, it's no longer under Diamond's warranty (applies to original owner). If the price charged from Pro's Closet was for a complete frame/fork, then you have a beef with them. If they charged you a discounted price because the fork was cut too short, then you got exactly what you paid for.

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Re: Secondhand Dimond [BryanD] [ In reply to ]
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BryanD wrote:
Thomas Gerlach wrote:
This is a different approach but yes, for instance at my Trek dealer I get something like 20% off because when I buy a bike retail I am a "preferred customer"


Does everyone get 20% off or do you because you ride a Trek?

No, I am a regular paying retail customer for my Trek. Everyone who buys a bike off the showroom floor gets 20%. There may be some threshold of say 5K or something for the 20%, I am not really sure. All I am sure is this is a regular offer to all that qualify and it has nothing to do with being pro.

I really don't know. Again for clarification purposes, I am not sponsored by TREK. I have turned down some offers to ride other brands, but as people know I want equipment that I am the most confident and for me that has been Trek. There are a few other bikes I would consider now that I am few years older and wiser and have more experience with the wind tunnel, but I am comfortable wrenching on my Trek having essentially the same bike for almost 8 years now. For what it is worth, I have never had a mechanical in a race ever and I race a lot. This of course does not include a flat and dropped chain or two. I mention this because people jump bikes too easily IMO and it results in mechanicals.


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Re: Secondhand Dimond [getbarreled] [ In reply to ]
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Thanks for sharing. After learning of their customer service practices I wouldn't buy new or used after reading that. I prefer working with companies that have excellent customer service policies like Zappos, Amazon, Nordstrom, etc..

-j

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Re: Secondhand Dimond [leegoocrap] [ In reply to ]
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leegoocrap wrote:
Post the whole email conversation if you're going to call them out, no paraphrasing. Don't we have some Dimond guys on the forum? Maybe they'll chime in. What happens if you break the seatpost/beam and aren't the original owner, do you scrap the bike? Some stuff might help folks in the future looking for a secondhand bike.

Dimond never said they wouldn't sell him/her the parts................

It's all about the post count!!!
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Re: Secondhand Dimond [japarker24] [ In reply to ]
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yeah, i read the post. Maybe I should have phrased it is it cheaper to buy a new frame than replace the post.
Or used more pink
or counted on somebody pointing out the glaringly obvious on a Friday...

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Re: Secondhand Dimond [getbarreled] [ In reply to ]
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getbarreled wrote:
This is really just to serve as a warning. After buying a Dimond Brilliant through Pros Closet, it became clear that the previous owner cut the steerer tube too short. I contacted Brad Bach at Dimond via telephone and told him the situation. He he told me that a replacement Superfork sold for $600. Expensive but understandable. Upon following up with him via email about lead time and to start the ordering process. He informed me that it would be $1200 for the superfork. When I called later to question the change, he told me that $600 is how much they charged people who had bought full priced bikes from them (he knew from the first minute we spoke, that I had purchased secondhand), and that $1200 would be my price. I pressed further, he said he would sell one to me for $600, only if I made referral that resulted in the purchase of a full price bike. When I pressed him on the matter of questionable customer service in quoting a price, then doubling it (which he does not deny doing), he told me what I suspected all along. They doubled the price, just for me!
"Nate, we have never sold a superfork to a non-customer before, and I don't plan to start doing that anytime soon. The $600 price is for Dimond customers. I'm sorry the exception I was going to give to you isn't enough."
They should just say it from the start. "If you didn't buy it from us, then fuck off."


Either they were having a bad day or there is more to this story. The service from Dimond is usually excellent.

In fact ... I am going to go out on a limb and say there is absolutely more to this story.

I have a couple of questions .... you state 'replacement'. So the fork on the bike is already a Superfork, yes? Because they would likely get you a replacement standard fork but not a replacement Superfork, which is also fair given that they do not openly sell the superfork. By replacement you are implying it has a Superfork already.

When Brad initially quoted the $600 did he think that you were an existing Dimond customer or did he know you were a third party?
"They doubled the price just for me" No they didn't. The price was always $600 to existing owners and $1200 otherwise. They notified all existing Dimond customers of this arrangement (which, arguably, you are not) at the time the fork was released.And it was also publicly press released with the pricing even included in the reviews like THIS ONE from TriRig. If you are hoping that by Brad, having potentially made a mistake in offering it to you for $600, should then be held to that mistake, then that seems a bit unfair.

I can understand your frustration in buying a bike that needs an expensive replacement part. But in light of this I would assume returning the defective purchase is a good idea. There seems little angst towards the guys who sold you the bike but a ton of issues with Dimond because you don't like the cost to fix it.

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Last edited by: JayPeeWhy: Apr 7, 17 13:48
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Re: Secondhand Dimond [getbarreled] [ In reply to ]
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Nothing to add, but just wanted to say this thread title is one letter away from a great title for a country song.
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Re: Secondhand Dimond [mt2u77] [ In reply to ]
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mt2u77 wrote:
Nothing to add, but just wanted to say this thread title is one letter away from a great title for a country song.

haha, genius.

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Re: Secondhand Dimond [JayPeeWhy] [ In reply to ]
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JayPeeWhy wrote:

Either they were having a bad day or there is more to this story. The service from Dimond is usually excellent.

I have a couple of questions .... you state 'replacement'. So the fork on the bike is already a Superfork, yes? Because they would likely get you a replacement standard fork but not a replacement Superfork, which is also fair given that they do not openly sell the superfork. By replacement you are implying it has a Superfork already.

When Brad initially quoted the $600 did he think that you were an existing Dimond customer or did he know you were a third party?
"They doubled the price just for me" No they didn't. The price was always $600 to existing owners and $1200 otherwise. They notified all existing Dimond customers of this arrangement (which, arguably, you are not) at the time the fork was released.And it was also publicly press released with the pricing even included in the reviews like THIS ONE from TriRig. If you are hoping that by Brad, having potentially made a mistake in offering it to you for $600, should then be held to that mistake, then that seems a bit unfair.

I can understand your frustration in buying a bike that needs an expensive replacement part. But in light of this I would assume returning the defective purchase is a good idea.

The least they could have done would say something to the effect of, "we apologize, due to xyz reason we misquoted your price and can't honor thay quote. For your troubles we can offer you a free t shirt and cycling kit if you go ahead and make the purchase."

I would be frustrated AF by their response as OP describes it. You gotta take some responsibility for what you say to customers and put them first for the sake of the larger business. Instead of potentially just losing the cost of a cycling kit and selling a 1200 fork, they lost a 1200 sale AND a future customer. Maybe it would have taken more than a kit to make things right with OP but I'm making a general point.
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Re: Secondhand Dimond [mt2u77] [ In reply to ]
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mt2u77 wrote:
Nothing to add, but just wanted to say this thread title is one letter away from a great title for a country song.

ha ha
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Re: Secondhand Dimond [zedzded] [ In reply to ]
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I don't think Dimond have done anything wrong, very worst they misquoted the OP. But, it's nice when companies go above and beyond what they are obliged to, helping out a customer, even a second hand one.
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Re: Secondhand Dimond [PBT_2009] [ In reply to ]
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PBT_2009 wrote:
I would be frustrated AF by their response as OP describes it.

Yes, I would be too. I know Brad. I know Dimond. I see how they deal with people. As the OP describes it is, in my experience, very unlikely to have been how it actually went down.

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Re: Secondhand Dimond [PBT_2009] [ In reply to ]
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And this is why it would be interesting to literally see the emails, not just the highlights from one pissed off party.

Everything Jay said, plus, like I said, its not fair for original owners to have paid more for the fork (either buying new Brilliant, or having to pay to upgrade) than someone buying a secondhand frame.
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Re: Secondhand Dimond [Justlevy] [ In reply to ]
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Justlevy wrote:
Thanks for sharing. After learning of their customer service practices I wouldn't buy new or used after reading that. I prefer working with companies that have excellent customer service policies like Zappos, Amazon, Nordstrom, etc..

-j

You never want to deal with Dimond, so you mention a bunch of online department stores you like instead? What do they have to do with bike warranty service?? Not many bike companies out there offer Amazon Prime service...
Cervelo, Trek, Specialized, etc Good luck getting any special warranty service/pricing from them for second hand owners.
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Re: Secondhand Dimond [Justlevy] [ In reply to ]
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Justlevy wrote:
Thanks for sharing. After learning of their customer service practices I wouldn't buy new or used after reading that. I prefer working with companies that have excellent customer service policies like Zappos, Amazon, Nordstrom, etc..

-j

That's unfair to Dimond. I've had nothing but excellent customer service from them.

I think the issue is probably going to boil down to Brad misunderstanding the OP from their first communication and thinking the OP was the original owner and not the second owner. The price is different depending. It is what it is. I have dealt with Brad on a few occasions and found him to be a straight up guy.

If I bought a pair of shoes from Zappos or a TV from Amazon or a dress shirt from Nordstrom and then sold the shoes/TV/shirt to you and you encountered either A) a problem or B) wanted to upgrade the shoe/TV/shirt... would you expect to be treated the same as me, the original owner? I doubt it. You don't often see any transferability from original owner to subsequent owners for any products for things like warranties or upgrades. Especially for a small time operation like Dimond. Dimond is fiercely loyal to its existing customers.

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Re: Secondhand Dimond [The GMAN] [ In reply to ]
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The GMAN wrote:
That's unfair to Dimond. I've had nothing but excellent customer service from them.

A bike accident, 5 weeks prior to Kona, destroyed my bike. All Brad said was "What do you need form us?" and then shipped me a demo bike with components matching my previous bike to train on for the final few weeks and to use for the race. No charge.

As appreciative as I was it was highly UNsurprising. That sums up Dimond, and Brad.

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Re: Secondhand Dimond [getbarreled] [ In reply to ]
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You should look into using a TriRig XF stem. The clamp area is much smaller than any other stem.




getbarreled wrote:
This is really just to serve as a warning. After buying a Dimond Brilliant through Pros Closet, it became clear that the previous owner cut the steerer tube too short. I contacted Brad Bach at Dimond via telephone and told him the situation. He he told me that a replacement Superfork sold for $600. Expensive but understandable. Upon following up with him via email about lead time and to start the ordering process. He informed me that it would be $1200 for the superfork. When I called later to question the change, he told me that $600 is how much they charged people who had bought full priced bikes from them (he knew from the first minute we spoke, that I had purchased secondhand), and that $1200 would be my price. I pressed further, he said he would sell one to me for $600, only if I made referral that resulted in the purchase of a full price bike. When I pressed him on the matter of questionable customer service in quoting a price, then doubling it (which he does not deny doing), he told me what I suspected all along. They doubled the price, just for me!
"Nate, we have never sold a superfork to a non-customer before, and I don't plan to start doing that anytime soon. The $600 price is for Dimond customers. I'm sorry the exception I was going to give to you isn't enough."
They should just say it from the start. "If you didn't buy it from us, then fuck off."
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Re: Secondhand Dimond [JayPeeWhy] [ In reply to ]
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JayPeeWhy wrote:
The GMAN wrote:
That's unfair to Dimond. I've had nothing but excellent customer service from them.


A bike accident, 5 weeks prior to Kona, destroyed my bike. All Brad said was "What do you need form us?" and then shipped me a demo bike with components matching my previous bike to train on for the final few weeks and to use for the race. No charge.

As appreciative as I was it was highly UNsurprising. That sums up Dimond, and Brad.

Same here.

I've been worked with the folks at Dimond and Brad since 2014, and have always had excellent customer service from the group - timely and straight forward.

Great company/great guy.

Team Dimond
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Re: Secondhand Dimond [getbarreled] [ In reply to ]
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Wow I have nothing but good things to say about Dimond and Brad. I ordered a bike last year with custom paint. Bike came it was a stock paint job. Called Brad he just said something happened in the pipe line and they would take care of it. Sent the bike back told him I would be Ironman Wisconsin in 5 weeks just bring the bike there in there demo van that would be fine. Came home 2 weeks later there was a box from Dimond sitting on my porch. The bike was beautiful raced it at Wisconsin. Dimond is top rate to me.
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Re: Secondhand Dimond [getbarreled] [ In reply to ]
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I bought a second hand dimond too recently. It came with the regular fork. I had a friend (who is a Dimond bike owner) ask Dimond for me if I could purchase a superfork. Basically, I was told by my friend that Dimond cannot keep up with their orders so they cant sell me a fork.

I dont blame Dimond for not selling me a fork. If they wanted $1200, I would have paid for it.

So I just got a new p5-six fork off ebay for $300. Got the magura brake fairings from excel sports for $30. Then a buddy of mine painted the fork for $70. With a little elbow grease and a fiberglass repair kit. I got something that looks stock.

Maybe you can sell the fork to someone with a smaller size frame (shorter head tube) to offset your cost. Just an idea.
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Re: Secondhand Dimond [astig] [ In reply to ]
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Guys, my post was pretty clear I thought. I don't question their customer service to customers who have dropped $6k+ on a bike frame. I own a service business. It's easy to give great service to people who blow fat stacks at your business.
It's the fact that they (Brad Bach) straight up quoted a price with no stupulations, knowing full well the secondhand pretense (over the phone so no email record but in follow up emails Mr Bach does not in any way deny that he personally quote said price), then after the fact, decided to double the price.
Couple that with his exact words... "I've never sold a superfork to a non customer, and I don't plan to start."
How is that anything other than someone saying "I quote you that price so you would go away." ?
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Re: Secondhand Dimond [getbarreled] [ In reply to ]
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I've thought through all the possibilities and frankly, I have the parts to put the bike on the road tomorrow with the 3T fork. I love everything about the Dimond as a bike and it sucks to have to go this way, but it would take a serious gesture on their part to make me ever put that brand out on the road. We live in a time when information is too easily spread and customer service is king. If they made a mistake in quoting me a low price, own that shit and learn from it on the next one. If you're willing to lose a customer and a promoter of your product and service over $600 dollars from your own fuck up that you don't deny, you aren't someone I'm interested in promoting. Maybe TJ reads this and pumps the brakes over there, but I doubt it. Really a shame. It's a damn pretty bike!
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Re: Secondhand Dimond [getbarreled] [ In reply to ]
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getbarreled wrote:
Guys, my post was pretty clear I thought. I don't question their customer service to customers who have dropped $6k+ on a bike frame. I own a service business. It's easy to give great service to people who blow fat stacks at your business.
It's the fact that they (Brad Bach) straight up quoted a price with no stupulations, knowing full well the secondhand pretense (over the phone so no email record but in follow up emails Mr Bach does not in any way deny that he personally quote said price), then after the fact, decided to double the price.
Couple that with his exact words... "I've never sold a superfork to a non customer, and I don't plan to start."
How is that anything other than someone saying "I quote you that price so you would go away." ?
Great way for Dimond to kill the resale value of their bikes. As much as it may seem its a way to get people to buy a new bike Dimond, it will also make people think twice if the bike depreciates like crazy because theres no support for anyone but the initial owner.
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Re: Secondhand Dimond [test] [ In reply to ]
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You are putting to much on the manufacturer. Their primary interest is selling new bikes and I get that. You can ask any primary Dimond owner and they will ALL say that the customer service is second to none!
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Re: Secondhand Dimond [getbarreled] [ In reply to ]
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Sounds like that exactly what he was intending to do; he made it clear he doesn't want to take his business in that direction so he disincentivized (is that even a word?) you to pay that amount of money but probably figures if you were willing to pay that much he was okay with doing so. Sounds fair to me.
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Re: Secondhand Dimond [getbarreled] [ In reply to ]
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getbarreled wrote:
but it would take a serious gesture on their part to make me ever put that brand out on the road!

So . . .

1. Brad makes a mistake on a quote for a superfork for you, later realizes the mistake, and changes the price.

2. You feel entitled to get the fork at the misquoted price. Can you elaborate on why you feel Dimond should 'own [their] fuck up' for your benefit?

3. You come here to throw a tantrum and do as much damage to the company as possible because you are angry that you didn't get what you feel entitled to.

4. Not being a Dimond customer and given #3, you think the owner of the company should make some kind of gesture to you so that you will ride the bike you didn't buy from them, presumably because you would be a 'promoter of [their] product'. Funny.

I think that perhaps you should do some introspection. What I gather from this thread isn't that there is a major deficit in Dimond customer service, but that you are an entitled self-important jerk. You need to take this matter up with the Pro's Closet.

Ride for show, run for dough.
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Re: Secondhand Dimond [ericlambi] [ In reply to ]
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ericlambi wrote:
2. You feel entitled to get the fork at the misquoted price. Can you elaborate on why you feel Dimond should 'own [their] fuck up' for your benefit?

Customers think along those lines quite frequently actually.
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Re: Secondhand Dimond [ericlambi] [ In reply to ]
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If someone wants to buy a fork from Dimond that makes him a customer too.

I found this tread helpful because it shows the business strategy a company makes and how your own purchase decisions and preferences may or may not fit with the company's strategy. It seems clear that the service is great when getting a new bike. It also seems clear that one should be very careful when getting a second hand bike to make sure there are no replacement parts needed because Dimond does not want to be in the business of doing that. So if you buy a used bike, make sure the fork has the right length and that you're not expecting to upgrade. I think all of this is good to share on this forum - no need to call the topic starter names.
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Re: Secondhand Dimond [test] [ In reply to ]
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test wrote:
Great way for Dimond to kill the resale value of their bikes. As much as it may seem its a way to get people to buy a new bike Dimond, it will also make people think twice if the bike depreciates like crazy because theres no support for anyone but the initial owner.

It's no different than Trek, Cervelo, Specialized, Felt, and probably every other bike manufacturer on the planet. The support is for the initial owner. The initial owner is Trek's customer or Cervelo's customer or Dimond's customer. Yes, we can look at it as everyone is a potential customer but for this one specific bike, getbarreled is not Dimond's customer. He's Pro's Closet's customer. Therefore, not entitled to the advantages of being Dimond's customer in this instance.

2018 Races:
Oceanside 70.3, Oceanside, CA, April 7th | Ironman Texas, The Woodlands, TX, April 28th | Finland 70.3, Lahti, Finland, June 30th | Jönköping 70.3, Jönköping, Sweden, July 8th

Gear: Dimond Bikes | Desoto Sport | Hoka One One
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Re: Secondhand Dimond [getbarreled] [ In reply to ]
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getbarreled wrote:

Couple that with his exact words... "I've never sold a superfork to a non customer, and I don't plan to start." (1)
How is that anything other than someone saying "I quote you that price so you would go away." ? (2)


Again, you are entirely wrong and it actually contradicts what you said before. Which doubles down on my view that you are not being entirely honest about the whole conversation.

Your statement above implies two things.

1 - That he was refusing to sell you a fork at all
2 - That the price was made up in order to get rid of you.

But

1 - You clearly stated in your original post that he would sell you the fork albeit for the correct price of $1200 and you even added his comment that ".. I'm sorry the exception I was going to give to you isn't enough .." the exception being that he appreciated that there had been a miscommunication about being the previous owner and was willing to sell you the fork in order to accommodate that issue despite the fact that normally they do not sell that fork.

2 - We have already established that the price was actually not made up to get rid of you but was the price stipulated before the fork even went into production, was the price that was given to existing owners, was the price outlined in press releases and was the price indicated in reviews of the fork.


Here's how I see it.

Situation:
Either you have the original smaller fork and don't like it and / or it has been cut short (a question that remains unanswered from my previous post). Or you have the Superfork and it has been cut too short. Neither of which are Dimond issues. You phone Dimond and either do not initially convey, or they do not hear, that you are a second owner. In the belief that you are an original owner they quote you the price for existing customer to upgrade their forks. Either way it is irrelevant. The cost of the fork to non owners would be $1200 if they were able to produce enough to sell. Fact. Always has been, always will be. Then special deal upgrade price for existing original owners is $600. You are not one of those.

End Result: You are not being charged more for no reason, you are being asked for the correct amount and, despite being non Dimond customer, they are actually offering you and you alone the chance to purchase the Superfork at the correct price because you purchased a bike that was defective and for some reason are not inclined to take it up with Pro Locker. You are not a 'used Dimond rider' being left out in the cold. They are willing to sort you out. You just, unfairly, want to pay 50% off retail and are still trying to make that happen.

This thread is just a bogus attempt to pile some shit on a company unfairly because you purchased a defective product, want the bike, and are trying to strong-arm Dimond into providing the fork you want rather than send the defective frame back to the company that sold you the defective bike in the first place.

Great service is not cowing down to people just because they skew a dealing with the company, demand to pay half price and then go onto social media to try and force the deal through. Great customer service is dealing with people like you in the correct manner to avoid driving up costs for their customers.

The sentence in your first post where you intimated they should have told you to 'fuck off' from the start is bang on though. I would have as soon as you started trying to rip me off.

Powered by - Wave Physiotherapy | PB+J Coaching
Last edited by: JayPeeWhy: Apr 8, 17 7:31
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Re: Secondhand Dimond [getbarreled] [ In reply to ]
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Not to pile on too much here but I've had. I've had only great experience when dealing with Dimond (and Brad). I've always found him, and the whole team, to be upfront and professional.

Regarding the specific nature of how this all began it would seem that the OP/pro closet didn't properly research/disclose the bike fit needed or that could be provided with the bike and now throwing a bit of a tantrum.

As others have stated your beef should be with procloset. Or just pony up the 1200 and ride the bike like a big boy. You'll go fast and love the bike!!

________________________________________________________
Taylor Rogers - "Brakes are for quitters."
rogers racing | facebook
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Re: Secondhand Dimond [ericlambi] [ In reply to ]
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ericlambi wrote:
getbarreled wrote:
but it would take a serious gesture on their part to make me ever put that brand out on the road!

2. You feel entitled to get the fork at the misquoted price. Can you elaborate on why you feel Dimond should 'own [their] fuck up' for your benefit?

I had to reply to this one because it's so surprising to me.
Ericlambi, it's pretty much an all industries standard practice and basic customer service 101. When you make a mistake, you own it and do your best to favor the customer in the mistake, in order to keep customer relations strong. This is a really basic concept.[/reply]
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Re: Secondhand Dimond [getbarreled] [ In reply to ]
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I'll just say this because holy crap I don't have the free time that some of you do to hammer away on this stuff.

Pro's Closet has been exceptionally helpful in this process and patiently allowing me to try to work something out with Dimond. They have also offered some cash back to help offset the cost of the fork if we went that route. Ultimately it looks like the bike is getting packed up and sent back to them. Good news for Brad, he gets to deal with this all over again with somebody else.

Ultimately it seems pretty clear that different people are going to have different feelings about this so fine. It seems to go over the head though of everybody that wants to pipe in here about how wonderful the customer service at Dimond is, that providing great customer service only AFTER someone spends tons of money is not anything to write home about. It's how you treat the people who are interested in your brand and trying to find a way to be involved with it and support it. I don't think I would have the successful business that I do if I took their approach. Regardless of who on Slowtwitch thinks I'm a "self entitled jerk", looking to "rip people off", I can say that in my own life and business, I practice what I preach. Not much I can do beyond that. I appreciate that some of you have engaged this discussion without attacking from behind a keyboard.
Last edited by: getbarreled: Apr 8, 17 8:38
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Re: Secondhand Dimond [The GMAN] [ In reply to ]
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I think if I buy a new fork or any other part for my used Specialized it's going to cost about the same as if I would have bought it new, and the same holds true for my new Giant. This is not a warranty/support issue, it's a simple parts transaction that has many levels of problems.
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Re: Secondhand Dimond [New3901] [ In reply to ]
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New3901 wrote:
I think if I buy a new fork or any other part for my used Specialized it's going to cost about the same as if I would have bought it new, and the same holds true for my new Giant. This is not a warranty/support issue, it's a simple parts transaction that has many levels of problems.


I agree. Other posters in the thread brought up warranty. To me it was never a warranty issue because warranty has nothing to do with it. My post was only ever about me trying to purchase new product, Brad reneging on the price he quoted, then flatly telling me I'm not a customer when I was trying to buy product from him. And for whatever it's worth, (I'm sure I'll catch grief for not mentioning this in the beginning), I had already made purchases from them for necessary items to build up the bike e.g. seat post, bottom bracket, upper and lower cable guide doors, etc.
Again, there's no business model in the world that says it is a good approach to treat people who have already given you money like they are not your customers regardless of whether it's $300 or $30,000.
Last edited by: getbarreled: Apr 8, 17 8:48
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Re: Secondhand Dimond [getbarreled] [ In reply to ]
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Totally with you. Plus, $1200 for a fork? Give me a f**ing break. It just boggles my mind that people are willing to pay 10k for a mickey mouse engineered overpriced POS and they will then also charge you $140 for that plastic crap which is covering their failure to design proper cable routing.



getbarreled wrote:
New3901 wrote:
I think if I buy a new fork or any other part for my used Specialized it's going to cost about the same as if I would have bought it new, and the same holds true for my new Giant. This is not a warranty/support issue, it's a simple parts transaction that has many levels of problems.

I agree. Other posters in the thread brought up warranty. To me it was never a warranty issue because warranty has nothing to do with it. My post was only ever about me trying to purchase new product, and Brad flatly telling me I'm not a customer when I was trying to buy product from him. And for whatever it's worth, (I'm sure I'll catch grief for not mentioning this in the beginning), I had already made purchases from them for necessary items to build up the bike e.g. seat post, bottom bracket, upper and lower cable guide doors, etc.
Again, there's no business model in the world that says it is a good approach to treat people who have already given you money like they are not your customers regardless of whether it's $300 or $30,000.
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Re: Secondhand Dimond [BryanD] [ In reply to ]
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Make that two, I would never buy from them ever. I like to buy new bikes a lot mostly used and I would never deal with a company that has such a backwards view of customer service.
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Re: Secondhand Dimond [The GMAN] [ In reply to ]
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The GMAN wrote:

It's no different than Trek, Cervelo, Specialized, Felt, and probably every other bike manufacturer on the planet. The support is for the initial owner.

Uhh, you know that is not true, right? You are almost completely wrong, in fact.
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Re: Secondhand Dimond [getbarreled] [ In reply to ]
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Somebody previously said it, if you are trying to buy the fork you are a potential customer. I have heard so many great things about Dimond customer service and you can see their impressive showmanship at races. It is wonderful how they take care of their customers, but it is dangerous to treat secondhand owners as thought they aren't owners. If this guy bought his Dimond secondhand and everything was fine, then he's out there riding a billboard for the company. Not everyone has the disposable income to buy bikes,, new, but that doesn't mean that their riding doesn't serve as the same product endorsement. When a guy passes you on a Felt IA in a race, you don't ask him whether he bought it new or not. As foolish as it sounds, when that IA passes you'll be questioning whether or not you would be faster on an IA. Assuming that Dimond doesn't lose money on the $600 price tag for the fork, then they should honor that price that was given. I've always seen Dimond's service in a positive light, but just this little complaint makes me second guess them. Get the guy out on the road and have him ride your billboard. He's not asking for VIP access at races or a race kit, he's just asking for a piece to make his bike rideable. Selling a fork for $600 is much easier than dealing with the PR nightmare of having someone killing themselves riding one of your bikes with a shit fork.
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Re: Secondhand Dimond [James Haycraft] [ In reply to ]
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James Haycraft wrote:
The GMAN wrote:


It's no different than Trek, Cervelo, Specialized, Felt, and probably every other bike manufacturer on the planet. The support is for the initial owner.


Uhh, you know that is not true, right? You are almost completely wrong, in fact.

In what regard am I wrong?

I get that Trek, Cervelo, Specialized, Felt and other bike bike manufacturers don't have different pricing for original customers vs not original customers for their products but they also don't sell bikes direct like Dimond does.

Tell me what kind of support the second owner is going to get from Trek, Cervelo, Specialized, or Felt should there be an issue with the bike? I stand by my statement that you won't get much support from any of them if you're not the original owner. There are rights and privileges extended to the original owner that do not extend to subsequent owners. For example, none of those manufacturers has a transferable warranty.

2018 Races:
Oceanside 70.3, Oceanside, CA, April 7th | Ironman Texas, The Woodlands, TX, April 28th | Finland 70.3, Lahti, Finland, June 30th | Jönköping 70.3, Jönköping, Sweden, July 8th

Gear: Dimond Bikes | Desoto Sport | Hoka One One
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Re: Secondhand Dimond [The GMAN] [ In reply to ]
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Any customer of a brand you mention, be they first owners or second owners or third owners, can get a product through their retailer of any part of their bike that they want. There is no pricing structure that separates first owners from any other owner. WARRANTY, yes...that is different. This issue is not related to a manufacturer's defect. Heck, if this OP owned a P5 or other Cervelo they might offer him crash replacement on a new fork for that matter. Even if he was the 4th owner of the bike.
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Re: Secondhand Dimond [New3901] [ In reply to ]
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New3901 wrote:
I think if I buy a new fork or any other part for my used Specialized it's going to cost about the same as if I would have bought it new, and the same holds true for my new Giant. This is not a warranty/support issue, it's a simple parts transaction that has many levels of problems.

I get that but that's not how Dimond operates. They have different pricing for some products for original customers. Specialized and Giant also don't sell bikes directly to consumers and have an entirely different scale of operations and distro network.

Would it also shock you to know that Dimond customers can get the new Marquise frameset for less than half the retail price?

2018 Races:
Oceanside 70.3, Oceanside, CA, April 7th | Ironman Texas, The Woodlands, TX, April 28th | Finland 70.3, Lahti, Finland, June 30th | Jönköping 70.3, Jönköping, Sweden, July 8th

Gear: Dimond Bikes | Desoto Sport | Hoka One One
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Re: Secondhand Dimond [getbarreled] [ In reply to ]
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getbarreled wrote:
ericlambi wrote:
getbarreled wrote:
but it would take a serious gesture on their part to make me ever put that brand out on the road!


2. You feel entitled to get the fork at the misquoted price. Can you elaborate on why you feel Dimond should 'own [their] fuck up' for your benefit?


I had to reply to this one because it's so surprising to me.
Ericlambi, it's pretty much an all industries standard practice and basic customer service 101. When you make a mistake, you own it and do your best to favor the customer in the mistake, in order to keep customer relations strong. This is a really basic concept.[/reply]


I don't have any skin in this game but I'm sure you're actually a customer; owner yes, customer? maybe not. This is boutique manufacturer.
Last edited by: clutchy: Apr 8, 17 10:50
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Re: Secondhand Dimond [James Haycraft] [ In reply to ]
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James Haycraft wrote:
Any customer of a brand you mention, be they first owners or second owners or third owners, can get a product through their retailer of any part of their bike that they want. There is no pricing structure that separates first owners from any other owner. WARRANTY, yes...that is different. This issue is not related to a manufacturer's defect. Heck, if this OP owned a P5 or other Cervelo they might offer him crash replacement on a new fork for that matter. Even if he was the 4th owner of the bike.

We all get that but we're talking a direct marketed boutique brand vs bikes sold in retail shops. It's just a different animal in that regard. The support is going to be different. Some people don't like that but it is what it is.

2018 Races:
Oceanside 70.3, Oceanside, CA, April 7th | Ironman Texas, The Woodlands, TX, April 28th | Finland 70.3, Lahti, Finland, June 30th | Jönköping 70.3, Jönköping, Sweden, July 8th

Gear: Dimond Bikes | Desoto Sport | Hoka One One
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Re: Secondhand Dimond [clutchy] [ In reply to ]
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clutchy wrote:
getbarreled wrote:
ericlambi wrote:
getbarreled wrote:
but it would take a serious gesture on their part to make me ever put that brand out on the road!


2. You feel entitled to get the fork at the misquoted price. Can you elaborate on why you feel Dimond should 'own [their] fuck up' for your benefit?


I had to reply to this one because it's so surprising to me.
Ericlambi, it's pretty much an all industries standard practice and basic customer service 101. When you make a mistake, you own it and do your best to favor the customer in the mistake, in order to keep customer relations strong. This is a really basic concept.[/reply]


I don't have any skin in this game but I'm sure you're actually a customer; owner yes, customer? maybe not. This is boutique manufacturer.

I've given them money, and received goods. Then I tried to purchase more goods with more money. How am I not a customer?
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Re: Secondhand Dimond [getbarreled] [ In reply to ]
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getbarreled wrote:
clutchy wrote:
getbarreled wrote:
ericlambi wrote:
getbarreled wrote:
but it would take a serious gesture on their part to make me ever put that brand out on the road!


2. You feel entitled to get the fork at the misquoted price. Can you elaborate on why you feel Dimond should 'own [their] fuck up' for your benefit?


I had to reply to this one because it's so surprising to me.
Ericlambi, it's pretty much an all industries standard practice and basic customer service 101. When you make a mistake, you own it and do your best to favor the customer in the mistake, in order to keep customer relations strong. This is a really basic concept.[/reply]


I don't have any skin in this game but I'm sure you're actually a customer; owner yes, customer? maybe not. This is boutique manufacturer.

I've given them money, and received goods. Then I tried to purchase more goods with more money. How am I not a customer?

Gave who money? Maybe I misunderstood.
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Re: Secondhand Dimond [The GMAN] [ In reply to ]
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I agree with you. I don't agree with the post that stated this action was like all other bike manufacturers. And this manufactured can run his business anyway he sees fit. If it was me...nobody gets a $600 Fork or discounted parts for a $5000+ bike because I know you will pay the premium.
I am also not surprised that they can discount up to 50% off because all bike are overpriced, but we keep shelling out the coin for them like they are bread and milk on a snow day in the South East US. Myself included.
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Re: Secondhand Dimond [clutchy] [ In reply to ]
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clutchy wrote:
getbarreled wrote:
clutchy wrote:
getbarreled wrote:
ericlambi wrote:
getbarreled wrote:
but it would take a serious gesture on their part to make me ever put that brand out on the road!


2. You feel entitled to get the fork at the misquoted price. Can you elaborate on why you feel Dimond should 'own [their] fuck up' for your benefit?


I had to reply to this one because it's so surprising to me.
Ericlambi, it's pretty much an all industries standard practice and basic customer service 101. When you make a mistake, you own it and do your best to favor the customer in the mistake, in order to keep customer relations strong. This is a really basic concept.[/reply]


I don't have any skin in this game but I'm sure you're actually a customer; owner yes, customer? maybe not. This is boutique manufacturer.

I've given them money, and received goods. Then I tried to purchase more goods with more money. How am I not a customer?

Gave who money? Maybe I misunderstood.

My bad. I talked about it later in the thread but should have just been clear from the beginning that I had already purchased a set of parts from them to build up the bike (seatpost, bottom bracket, upper and lower cable doors, etc)
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Re: Secondhand Dimond [getbarreled] [ In reply to ]
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[quote getbarreledI don't think I would have the successful business that I do if I took their approach. Regardless of who on Slowtwitch thinks I'm a "self entitled jerk", looking to "rip people off", I can say that in my own life and business, I practice what I preach.[/quote]
You know, this thread annoyed me enough that I actually spoke to Brad about it. He confirmed that the way your conversation went is basically how JayPeeWhy theorized, which is that you were not upfront about being a second owner. So you are super ethical and successful, but feel the need to try to weasel your way into a deal on a bike fork and throw a tantrum when it doesn't work out.

Ride for show, run for dough.
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Re: Secondhand Dimond [ericlambi] [ In reply to ]
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ericlambi wrote:
[quote getbarreledI don't think I would have the successful business that I do if I took their approach. Regardless of who on Slowtwitch thinks I'm a "self entitled jerk", looking to "rip people off", I can say that in my own life and business, I practice what I preach.

You know, this thread annoyed me enough that I actually spoke to Brad about it. He confirmed that the way your conversation went is basically how JayPeeWhy theorized, which is that you were not upfront about being a second owner. So you are super ethical and successful, but feel the need to try to weasel your way into a deal on a bike fork and throw a tantrum when it doesn't work out.[/quote]
That's a fucking lie and I think even less of him now. He's the first person I ever spoke with at Dimond when I purchased the bike through Pros Closet. Exact words of the phone conversation were,
Me: "I just bought a used dimond bike frame from a shop out of Boulder Colorado and I need to purchase some of the missing parts."
Brad: " OK, was that like through Pro's Closet or something?"
Me: " yes, that's exactly where I bought it."
Brad: " OK, what parts do you need?"

If he said I was not upfront about it being used, then he has a very selective memory or he's a flat out liar trying to cover himself because there are at least a few people that sympathize with my side of this argument and it doesn't look that good for him or the brand.
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Re: Secondhand Dimond [ericlambi] [ In reply to ]
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Sounds like he is aware of the thread, he can speak for himself.
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Re: Secondhand Dimond [getbarreled] [ In reply to ]
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Anybody will treat a customer well if you pay them $10,000. They got their money for the original bike. It appears that they are pissed they didn't get a cut of the resale and are trying to make up for it by gouging the secondary user. I'm sorry, product costs are product costs. Doubling the price of a part because the buyer is not the original owner is poor service and business.

If you have "Dimond" anywhere in your signature--IMO your response to their customer service adds nothing.

Brent * | Facebook | Team Semper Fi
* just your average age grouper . no one special . no scientific knowledge . just having fun.
Last edited by: way2sloow: Apr 8, 17 13:44
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Re: Secondhand Dimond [way2sloow] [ In reply to ]
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way2sloow wrote:
Anybody will treat a customer well if you pay them $10,000. They got their money for the original bike. It appears that they are pissed they didn't get a cut of the resale and are trying to make up for it by gouging the secondary user. I'm sorry, product costs are product costs. Doubling the price of a part because the buyer is not the original owner is poor service and business.

If you have "Dimond" anywhere in your signature--IMO your response to their customer service adds nothing.


That's entirely not the case. They aren't pissed they didn't get a cut of the resale. That's just ridiculous.

They don't double the price of the part for the used buyer. The price of the Super Fork was always $1200. Go look at any of the press related to its introduction last year. They discounted the price for existing owners who wanted to upgrade to the Super Fork. Period. I bought my Dimond when the Super Fork was just released early last year. I had a choice between the old 3T Funda fork or the Super Fork. I chose the Super Fork and paid... wait for it... $1200. So new buyers also paid $1200 for the fork. What's your argument now?

2018 Races:
Oceanside 70.3, Oceanside, CA, April 7th | Ironman Texas, The Woodlands, TX, April 28th | Finland 70.3, Lahti, Finland, June 30th | Jönköping 70.3, Jönköping, Sweden, July 8th

Gear: Dimond Bikes | Desoto Sport | Hoka One One
Last edited by: The GMAN: Apr 8, 17 14:18
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Re: Secondhand Dimond [The GMAN] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
The GMAN wrote:
way2sloow wrote:
Anybody will treat a customer well if you pay them $10,000. They got their money for the original bike. It appears that they are pissed they didn't get a cut of the resale and are trying to make up for it by gouging the secondary user. I'm sorry, product costs are product costs. Doubling the price of a part because the buyer is not the original owner is poor service and business.

If you have "Dimond" anywhere in your signature--IMO your response to their customer service adds nothing.


That's entirely not the case. They aren't pissed they didn't get a cut of the resale. That's just ridiculous.

They don't double the price of the part for the used buyer. The price of the Super Fork was always $1200. Go look at any of the press related to its introduction last year. They discounted the price for existing owners who wanted to upgrade to the Super Fork. Period. I bought my Dimond when the Super Fork was just released early last year. I had a choice between the old 3T Funda fork or the Super Fork. I chose the Super Fork and paid... wait for it... $1200. So new buyers also paid $1200 for the fork. What's your argument now?

I stand corrected. Makes more sense now.

Brent * | Facebook | Team Semper Fi
* just your average age grouper . no one special . no scientific knowledge . just having fun.
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Re: Secondhand Dimond [ericlambi] [ In reply to ]
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In fact, ericlambi, how quickly does Brad's new stance that I was not upfront about being an original owner, crumble under its own weight when we talk about how fiercely they are supposed to know and tend to their customers? How is it possible that is even the case when he had already sold me a variety of replacement products for the used bike I had ordered? Are Dimond owners regularly calling and ordering a new uncut seatpost, a set of cable guide doors, a bottom bracket, and calling asking about headset sizes and setups? The fork issue didn't come about till well after all of these exchanges had happened. How does that stack up?
The fact that you have the ability to contact him on the weekend implies that maybe you are friends or at least reasonably close acquaintances. If that's the case, I understand your feeling compelled to believe him over some dude on the web. Unfortunately for him, that story just doesn't stack up at all.
Last edited by: getbarreled: Apr 8, 17 14:39
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Re: Secondhand Dimond [801pe] [ In reply to ]
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801pe wrote:
Sounds like he is aware of the thread, he can speak for himself.

I hope he does.
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Re: Secondhand Dimond [getbarreled] [ In reply to ]
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getbarreled wrote:
The fact that you have the ability to contact him on the weekend implies that maybe you are friends or at least reasonably close acquaintances.

I can't speak for Eric on this one but Dimond has a secret Facebook page that Brad pretty much runs. Any of us who are members of the secret page can get in touch with Brad quite easily. Plus any of us that have bought a Dimond probably have Brad's email info. He's very easy to contact.


You would know all this if you were an original owner!

^ That's a joke by the way :-)

2018 Races:
Oceanside 70.3, Oceanside, CA, April 7th | Ironman Texas, The Woodlands, TX, April 28th | Finland 70.3, Lahti, Finland, June 30th | Jönköping 70.3, Jönköping, Sweden, July 8th

Gear: Dimond Bikes | Desoto Sport | Hoka One One
Quote Reply
Re: Secondhand Dimond [The GMAN] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
The GMAN wrote:
He's very easy to contact.


You would know all this if you were an original owner!

^ That's a joke by the way :-)

LOW BLOW!!!!

;-) good one!
Quote Reply
Re: Secondhand Dimond [getbarreled] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
You know what, I have to apologize. I re-read the e-mail conversation I had with Brad and I misinterpreted what he said. Correct, he knew you bought the bike second hand. He made a mistake quoting the fork. He changed the price to the correct one when he realized the mistake. Sounds like he spent a fair bit of time trying to help you with the purchase of the second hand bike. Sorry it hasn't worked out, good luck.

Ride for show, run for dough.
Quote Reply
Re: Secondhand Dimond [The GMAN] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
The GMAN wrote:
way2sloow wrote:
Anybody will treat a customer well if you pay them $10,000. They got their money for the original bike. It appears that they are pissed they didn't get a cut of the resale and are trying to make up for it by gouging the secondary user. I'm sorry, product costs are product costs. Doubling the price of a part because the buyer is not the original owner is poor service and business.

If you have "Dimond" anywhere in your signature--IMO your response to their customer service adds nothing.


That's entirely not the case. They aren't pissed they didn't get a cut of the resale. That's just ridiculous.

They don't double the price of the part for the used buyer. The price of the Super Fork was always $1200. Go look at any of the press related to its introduction last year. They discounted the price for existing owners who wanted to upgrade to the Super Fork. Period. I bought my Dimond when the Super Fork was just released early last year. I had a choice between the old 3T Funda fork or the Super Fork. I chose the Super Fork and paid... wait for it... $1200. So new buyers also paid $1200 for the fork. What's your argument now?

Ah.

Bit clearer now. Sorry OP, I don't really see a problem with Dimond/Brad.
Quote Reply
Re: Secondhand Dimond [ericlambi] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
ericlambi wrote:
You know what, I have to apologize. I re-read the e-mail conversation I had with Brad and I misinterpreted what he said. Correct, he knew you bought the bike second hand. He made a mistake quoting the fork. He changed the price to the correct one when he realized the mistake. Sounds like he spent a fair bit of time trying to help you with the purchase of the second hand bike. Sorry it hasn't worked out, good luck.


This was what I was thinking after reading the first post.

OP - I didn't feel you were trying to be entitled, etc. But the bottom line is, whether by mistake, brain fart, whatever, you were quoted a price that seems to have been a mistake. As GMAN said, new owners (like myself) paid more to upgrade to the better fork (ie. upgrading to 'brilliant' instead of 'xcut'). If Dimond honors the 600 price, thats kind of offensive to their customers who bought new. Just my .02.

Sorry to hear you are returning the bike, they are pretty cool.

One question you haven't answered, just out of interest, what specifically was wrong with the original fork? In the pics on ebay, it looks like it should have no problem fitting a stem, even if without many/any spacers underneath. Was there some sort of damage to it?
Last edited by: SBRcoffee: Apr 8, 17 15:27
Quote Reply
Re: Secondhand Dimond [ericlambi] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
ericlambi wrote:
You know what, I have to apologize. I re-read the e-mail conversation I had with Brad and I misinterpreted what he said. Correct, he knew you bought the bike second hand. He made a mistake quoting the fork. He changed the price to the correct one when he realized the mistake. Sounds like he spent a fair bit of time trying to help you with the purchase of the second hand bike. Sorry it hasn't worked out, good luck.

How do you go from "he says your weren't upfront and are trying to weasel a deal", to "I misread and his original email coroberates everything you said."

WHAT?

And yeah, the whole point is that HE quoted a price, then doubled it, then said pound sand if I don't like it, with a flimsy exception offered only if I brought him someone to buy a full priced bike.
Here's an idea, be a bro about it. Call me up like a person and say, "dude, I made a mistake and I know it sucks but I can't honor it. How can we work it out? We want you to ride a that bike."
Never even admitted his mistake. Just never denied it and then tipped his hand with, I've "never sold one to a NON customer, and I don't plan to start."
Quote Reply
Re: Secondhand Dimond [SBRcoffee] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
SBRcoffee wrote:
ericlambi wrote:
You know what, I have to apologize. I re-read the e-mail conversation I had with Brad and I misinterpreted what he said. Correct, he knew you bought the bike second hand. He made a mistake quoting the fork. He changed the price to the correct one when he realized the mistake. Sounds like he spent a fair bit of time trying to help you with the purchase of the second hand bike. Sorry it hasn't worked out, good luck.


This was what I was thinking after reading the first post.

OP - I didn't feel you were trying to be entitled, etc. But the bottom line is, whether by mistake, brain fart, whatever, you were quoted a price that seems to have been a mistake. As GMAN said, new owners (like myself) paid more to upgrade to the better fork (ie. upgrading to 'brilliant' instead of 'xcut'). If Dimond honors the 600 price, thats kind of offensive to their customers who bought new. Just my .02.

Sorry to hear you are returning the bike, they are pretty cool.

One question you haven't answered, just out of interest, what specifically was wrong with the original fork? In the pics on ebay, it looks like it should have no problem fitting a stem, even if without many/any spacers underneath. Was there some sort of damage to it?


Fair enough. I see it different and if Brad had made more effort to own his mistake, even if he still could not make $600 happen, I think he could have done more to try to just "be cool" about it. Not treat me like a burden to get rid of by saying he actually has no intent of ever selling a fork to a "non-customer."

I don't know how to attach a pic. The steerer was cut WAAAAYYYY too short. With crown race, headset, and lowest dust cap, there was maybe 1/4" of steerer left to get a stem on. Not safe in mine or the opinion of a variety of bike pros. Could have probably sold it to someone with a small or xsmall but I just got turned off pretty bad.

No one is more bummed than me. I have adored Dimond bikes since I first saw one. Ask anyone that knows me. I've often referred to it as "my dream bike!"
Last edited by: getbarreled: Apr 8, 17 15:57
Quote Reply
Re: Secondhand Dimond [getbarreled] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
getbarreled wrote:
How do you go from "he says your weren't upfront and are trying to weasel a deal", to "I misread and his original email coroberates everything you said."

WHAT?

The e-mail was speed typed on his phone with some massive spelling mistakes, which caused me to interpret him saying something different than what he was saying. Basically, I thought he said he spent a lot of time on the phone with you before you told him you bought the bike second hand, but he in fact said that he spent a lot of time on the phone with you before you bought the bike second hand. Again, my apologies with regards to that misinterpretation. Brad certainly never charged you with being a weasel, that was me. I stand by my general criticisms of you muckraking Dimond over a simple pricing mistake: the fact that you started this thread is completely ridiculous.

Ride for show, run for dough.
Quote Reply
Re: Secondhand Dimond [buck_shot11] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
buck_shot11 wrote:
You are putting to much on the manufacturer. Their primary interest is selling new bikes and I get that. You can ask any primary Dimond owner and they will ALL say that the customer service is second to none!

Well it has been. Because they're new. And boutique. But at some point they're going to have to transition to a more mature business model that takes into account secondary owners. Supporting secondary owners is also essentially supporting the primary owner. Because if a secondary owner can't reasonably maintain a bike, the primary's sale value will plummet. And because secondary owners are just as much unpaid Dimond marketing personnel as the primary owner. And I have noticed used Dimonds for sale popping up pretty frequently, so this transition may take place sooner rather than later.

I'm not going to pile on because Dimond is new at this. And it's tough to say if a 100% surcharge for "full retail price" over "replacement price" is reasonable or not. Typical "crash replacement" cost is about a 50% discount. Tough to say if $600 is indicative of a "wholesale" price, and it's just really expensive to manufacture. Or if $600 is already fairly well padded with a retail margin, and $1200 is just a dis-incentive because Dimond is selling all the forks they can on new bikes.
Quote Reply
Re: Secondhand Dimond [trail] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
just a miss quoted price.. based on the review/ad someone posted the correct price is $1200 (for everyone).. everyone has fine print these days and basically miss priced items don't necessary have to be honored. I've ordered a number of parts/items online knowing the deal was too good to be true. I've gotten some of them and others were cancelled by the seller, stating mis-priced or print errors. I don't sweat it.
Quote Reply
Re: Secondhand Dimond [ericlambi] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
ericlambi wrote:
getbarreled wrote:
How do you go from "he says your weren't upfront and are trying to weasel a deal", to "I misread and his original email coroberates everything you said."

WHAT?

The e-mail was speed typed on his phone with some massive spelling mistakes, which caused me to interpret him saying something different than what he was saying. Basically, I thought he said he spent a lot of time on the phone with you before you told him you bought the bike second hand, but he in fact said that he spent a lot of time on the phone with you before you bought the bike second hand. Again, my apologies with regards to that misinterpretation. Brad certainly never charged you with being a weasel, that was me. I stand by my general criticisms of you muckraking Dimond over a simple pricing mistake: the fact that you started this thread is completely ridiculous.

If you want to ignore specific parts of the story so you can dilute it down to "they made a pricing error" knock yourself out. That's altered reality but if that's how you want to roll go for it.

"I've never sold a fork to a non-customer, and I don't plan to start anytime soon."
Quote Reply
Re: Secondhand Dimond [trail] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
I think this is a great example of why businesses, especially newer ones, need a social media strategy/rapid response team. This post has festered for quite some time.

Brent * | Facebook | Team Semper Fi
* just your average age grouper . no one special . no scientific knowledge . just having fun.
Quote Reply
Re: Secondhand Dimond [spntrxi] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
spntrxi wrote:
just a miss quoted price..

If we take the OP at his word, it wasn't a misquoted price. The only fork price when he called was $600. And that's what he was quoted. Then it sounds like Dimond realized after the call that his was the first secondary-owner purchase of a fork, and that the $600 was something that's like the equivalent of a "crash replacement" price, and not appropriate as a full retail price. So they created a brand new price structure.

That was my interpretation, taking the OP at face value.

Nothing wrong with that, really. Forgiveable, in my opinion, given the newness of the whole situation.
Quote Reply
Re: Secondhand Dimond [James Haycraft] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
The price should be the price. I hate buying anything that is a different price for different people.
Last edited by: cbump: Apr 8, 17 16:23
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Re: Secondhand Dimond [cbump] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Almost everything is different prices for different people.

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Quote Reply
Re: Secondhand Dimond [trail] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
trail wrote:
buck_shot11 wrote:
You are putting to much on the manufacturer. Their primary interest is selling new bikes and I get that. You can ask any primary Dimond owner and they will ALL say that the customer service is second to none!

Well it has been. Because they're new. And boutique. But at some point they're going to have to transition to a more mature business model that takes into account secondary owners. Supporting secondary owners is also essentially supporting the primary owner. Because if a secondary owner can't reasonably maintain a bike, the primary's sale value will plummet. And because secondary owners are just as much unpaid Dimond marketing personnel as the primary owner. And I have noticed used Dimonds for sale popping up pretty frequently, so this transition may take place sooner rather than later.

I'm not going to pile on because Dimond is new at this. And it's tough to say if a 100% surcharge for "full retail price" over "replacement price" is reasonable or not. Typical "crash replacement" cost is about a 50% discount. Tough to say if $600 is indicative of a "wholesale" price, and it's just really expensive to manufacture. Or if $600 is already fairly well padded with a retail margin, and $1200 is just a dis-incentive because Dimond is selling all the forks they can on new bikes.

Trail, I don't think you could be any more on the money. I get that Brad doesn't know me from Adam, and I tried to tastefully share a little bit about myself to hopefully let him know that I fiercely promote the brands I believe in and was already totally sold out on Dimond. His response was "I'm sure you're influential but we get a lot of that" which I totally understand. It's probably annoying as hell having everybody and their mother telling you that they're the next coolest thing and they're going to sell so many bikes for you. And at the end of the day there's no way for him to really know whether or not I would help to drive sales for their brand. I know that I would, because that's just how I roll, and like you said, first second or third hand owners are all equal when it comes to promoting the bike that they are on. I'm the president and founder of a quickly growing tri club and there's no one as best I can tell for 100 miles on one of these bikes. Also, my club is in an extremely affluent area where people blow money on bikes at an insane level. It would have behooved them to get this bike out on the road and looking sharp.
Quote Reply
Re: Secondhand Dimond [getbarreled] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Does anyone have any access to published pricing for any of the stuff from them? As best I can tell, there's nothing in writing which tends to fuel the feeling that they're pulling numbers out of their butt.
Quote Reply
Re: Secondhand Dimond [getbarreled] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
getbarreled wrote:
Does anyone have any access to published pricing for any of the stuff from them? As best I can tell, there's nothing in writing which tends to fuel the feeling that they're pulling numbers out of their butt.

No, but I can tell you that as a customer that bought new from them, they treated me extremely well on pricing for the parts I wanted to buy from them.
Quote Reply
Re: Secondhand Dimond [JasoninHalifax] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
JasoninHalifax wrote:
Almost everything is different prices for different people.

And I hate it.



After further reading it seems like the price of the fork is always 1200 bucks. I don't know who Brad is but he sounds like the owner. How does the owner not know the price of his products?
Quote Reply
Re: Secondhand Dimond [cbump] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
cbump wrote:
JasoninHalifax wrote:
Almost everything is different prices for different people.

And I hate it.



After further reading it seems like the price of the fork is always 1200 bucks. I don't know who Brad is but he sounds like the owner. How does the owner not know the price of his products?

"Director of sales and marketing" I would feel that the same question would apply, possibly even more so.
Quote Reply
Re: Secondhand Dimond [getbarreled] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
getbarreled wrote:
Does anyone have any access to published pricing for any of the stuff from them? As best I can tell, there's nothing in writing which tends to fuel the feeling that they're pulling numbers out of their butt.

They actually send an itemized list of everything on the bike when you order it.

Literally it will say:

Frame $XXXX
Fork $XXXX
Paint $XXX
Aerobars $XXX
Crankset $XXX
RD $XXX
FD $XXX
Cassette $XX
etc.

Although I'm sure fork isn't listed separately any longer since it's already included with the Brilliant or Marquise.

2018 Races:
Oceanside 70.3, Oceanside, CA, April 7th | Ironman Texas, The Woodlands, TX, April 28th | Finland 70.3, Lahti, Finland, June 30th | Jönköping 70.3, Jönköping, Sweden, July 8th

Gear: Dimond Bikes | Desoto Sport | Hoka One One
Quote Reply
Re: Secondhand Dimond [The GMAN] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
The GMAN wrote:

I can't speak for Eric on this one but Dimond has a secret Facebook page that Brad pretty much runs. Any of us who are members of the secret page can get in touch with Brad quite easily. Plus any of us that have bought a Dimond probably have Brad's email info. He's very easy to contact.


You would know all this if you were an original owner!

^ That's a joke by the way :-)

I'm not buying a bike from any company that has a secret Facebook page for bike owners. That just screams "we're exclusive and we're better than everyone."

I can give you 25% off Roka Sunglasses! Message me for details! Currently 7 codes left!
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Quote Reply
Re: Secondhand Dimond [cbump] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
cbump wrote:
JasoninHalifax wrote:
Almost everything is different prices for different people.


And I hate it.



After further reading it seems like the price of the fork is always 1200 bucks. I don't know who Brad is but he sounds like the owner. How does the owner not know the price of his products?

TJ Tollakson is the owner. Brad basically runs the business side. He's well aware of the pricing.

2018 Races:
Oceanside 70.3, Oceanside, CA, April 7th | Ironman Texas, The Woodlands, TX, April 28th | Finland 70.3, Lahti, Finland, June 30th | Jönköping 70.3, Jönköping, Sweden, July 8th

Gear: Dimond Bikes | Desoto Sport | Hoka One One
Quote Reply
Re: Secondhand Dimond [BryanD] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
BryanD wrote:
The GMAN wrote:


I can't speak for Eric on this one but Dimond has a secret Facebook page that Brad pretty much runs. Any of us who are members of the secret page can get in touch with Brad quite easily. Plus any of us that have bought a Dimond probably have Brad's email info. He's very easy to contact.


You would know all this if you were an original owner!

^ That's a joke by the way :-)


I'm not buying a bike from any company that has a secret Facebook page for bike owners. That just screams "we're exclusive and we're better than everyone."

They have a regular Facebook page for peons like yourself. :-)

2018 Races:
Oceanside 70.3, Oceanside, CA, April 7th | Ironman Texas, The Woodlands, TX, April 28th | Finland 70.3, Lahti, Finland, June 30th | Jönköping 70.3, Jönköping, Sweden, July 8th

Gear: Dimond Bikes | Desoto Sport | Hoka One One
Quote Reply
Re: Secondhand Dimond [The GMAN] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
The GMAN wrote:
cbump wrote:
JasoninHalifax wrote:
Almost everything is different prices for different people.


And I hate it.



After further reading it seems like the price of the fork is always 1200 bucks. I don't know who Brad is but he sounds like the owner. How does the owner not know the price of his products?

TJ Tollakson is the owner. Brad basically runs the business side. He's well aware of the pricing.

Then how did he quote 600 for a 1200 dollar part?
Quote Reply
Re: Secondhand Dimond [BryanD] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
BryanD wrote:
The GMAN wrote:


I can't speak for Eric on this one but Dimond has a secret Facebook page that Brad pretty much runs. Any of us who are members of the secret page can get in touch with Brad quite easily. Plus any of us that have bought a Dimond probably have Brad's email info. He's very easy to contact.


You would know all this if you were an original owner!

^ That's a joke by the way :-)


I'm not buying a bike from any company that has a secret Facebook page for bike owners. That just screams "we're exclusive and we're better than everyone."

They have two FB sites, one public site for ruster sports, and one owners page (the 'secret' group). Is that such a big deal?
I can tell you, as a member of the 'secret' group, you aren't missing any secrets...lol. Its a group of rather happy owners that post pics, see who's going to what race, have some opportunities to get in on some gear orders, etc.

Despite him possibly making a mistake, I'm glad Brad didn't sell the discounted fork. Again, that would come across as pretty unfair to other owners that paid over double for the fork. And the sales they might have gained by selling to a tri club president that lives in a wealthy area, they may have lost from the loss of referral sales from current owners who wonder why purchasers of used frames get a better deal on parts.

OP - if this is a frame you really wanted, then slap that 3T fork on it and some nice brakes, Tririgs, or maybe a cool setup with Magura's (difficult, but possible I believe), and ride it. You can always resell down the road.
Quote Reply
Re: Secondhand Dimond [cbump] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
600 was the price for ORIGINAL owners to UPGRADE to the new fork. At least that was always my understanding - I don't speak for Ruster Sports.
It sounds like he made a mistake, it happens.
Last edited by: SBRcoffee: Apr 8, 17 17:06
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Re: Secondhand Dimond [SBRcoffee] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
 It's been a hard call for me because frankly I love the shit out of the bike. Brad's whole attitude towards the situation made it very evident that I was a second-class citizen to them and I just can't roll with that.

Like I've said a few times in this thread. I could deal with them making a mistake and not even being willing to honor the price, but be cool about it, own up to it, make me feel like you give a shit. That didn't happen at all.
Quote Reply
Re: Secondhand Dimond [getbarreled] [ In reply to ]
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If this thread taught me anything it's never buy a Dimond. Gross.
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Re: Secondhand Dimond [getbarreled] [ In reply to ]
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As was mentioned by another poster, the price was always $1200. I contacted them when they first came out, with money in hand, and ended up not purchasing due to the wait time involved. A P5-3 fork was a great alternative for $200 off of eBay, and maybe 2 hours of bondo work.

I have purchased a seat post from them in the past (for $100, which seemed crazy low) for my used Dimond (also from the Pros Closet) that was actually broken at the seat clamp area. They knew the bike had been repaired, and did not have any qualms about supplying me with additional parts. The service I received from them has always been top notch, despite them not knowing my pedigree wrt carbon refurbishment. I have dealt with other companies that did not want me fixing broken carbon and would not sell me parts to support that end.
Quote Reply
Re: Secondhand Dimond [chicanery] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
 That was how it initially seemed like the exchange was going to go for me. Then it veered. I'm honestly glad that you had a better experience than I did.
Quote Reply
Re: Secondhand Dimond [James Haycraft] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
James Haycraft wrote:
ericlambi wrote:
2. You feel entitled to get the fork at the misquoted price. Can you elaborate on why you feel Dimond should 'own [their] fuck up' for your benefit?

Customers think along those lines quite frequently actually.

In California, we have every right to think along those lines (I don't know that it extends to verbal price quotes, but it's in the same ballpark):

Quote Quoting California B&P Code, 12024.2.

(a) It is unlawful for any person, at the time of sale of a commodity, to do any of the following:
(1) Charge an amount greater than the price, or to compute an amount greater than a true extension of a price per unit, that is then advertised, posted, marked, displayed, or quoted for that commodity.

(2) Charge an amount greater than the lowest price posted on the commodity itself or on a shelf tag that corresponds to the commodity, notwithstanding any limitation of the time period for which the posted price is in effect.
(b) A violation of this section is a misdemeanor punishable by a fine of not less than twenty-five dollars ($25) nor more than one thousand dollars ($1,000), by imprisonment in the county jail for a period not exceeding one year, or by both, if the violation is willful or grossly negligent, or when the overcharge is more than one dollar ($1).

(c) A violation of this section is an infraction punishable by a fine of not more than one hundred dollars ($100) when the overcharge is one dollar ($1) or less.

(d) As used in subdivisions (b) and (c), "overcharge" means the amount by which the charge for a commodity exceeds a price that is advertised, posted, marked, displayed, or quoted to that consumer for that commodity at the time of sale.

(e) Except as provided in subdivision (f), for purposes of this section, when more than one price for the same commodity is advertised, posted, marked, displayed, or quoted, the person offering the commodity for sale shall charge the lowest of those prices.

(f) Pricing may be subject to a condition of sale, such as membership in a retailer-sponsored club, the purchase of a minimum quantity, or the purchase of multiples of the same item, provided that the condition is conspicuously posted in the same location as the price.[/indent]

"America is all about speed. Hot, nasty, badass speed." -Eleanor Roosevelt, 1936
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Re: Secondhand Dimond [aerobean] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
TL;DR version

Guy buys a bike from a third party that doesn't work, wants the part from Dimond for half price when its only available at full price, cries online because he's not getting his own way in the hope they'll cave.

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Re: Secondhand Dimond [getbarreled] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
 
getbarreled wrote:
getbarreled wrote:
I tried to tastefully share a little bit about myself to hopefully let him know that I fiercely promote the brands I believe in and was already totally sold out on Dimond. ..... It's probably annoying as hell having everybody and their mother telling you that they're the next coolest thing and they're going to sell so many bikes for you. And at the end of the day there's no way for him to really know whether or not I would help to drive sales for their brand. I know that I would, because that's just how I roll,

Solid. Gold.

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Last edited by: JayPeeWhy: Apr 8, 17 21:26
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Re: Secondhand Dimond [The GMAN] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
The GMAN wrote:
They actually send an itemized list of everything on the bike when you order it.

Literally it will say:

Frame $XXXX
Fork $XXXX
Paint $XXX
Aerobars $XXX
Crankset $XXX
RD $XXX
FD $XXX
Cassette $XX
etc.

Although I'm sure fork isn't listed separately any longer since it's already included with the Brilliant or Marquise.

Is this sort of like, "You have to pass the bill to see what's in it?"

You have to buy the Dimond to see how much replacement parts cost.
Quote Reply
Re: Secondhand Dimond [JayPeeWhy] [ In reply to ]
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You can keep talking shit JayPee. Really it just shows that you're desperate to try and come up with a way to make me look bad cause you are in the Dimond club and get off on being an elitist prick about it. Kinda like that horse shit post a minute ago that you deleted cause it didn't make sense or any cohesive point.
Quote Reply
Re: Secondhand Dimond [getbarreled] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
getbarreled wrote:
Also, my club is in an extremely affluent area where people blow money on bikes at an insane level. It would have behooved them to get this bike out on the road and looking sharp.

Then start a go fund me and get your affluent friends/acquaintances to fork over the $600.

I'm annoyed that the basis of this thread is the customer support experience (which has/will be debated) with Dimond is based on the baseline error by the part of OP/Pros closet in knowing what was being bought/sold. Did I miss a post as to why Pro Closet was selling or the OP knew he was buying an unusable bike?

________________________________________________________
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Re: Secondhand Dimond [xcrogers] [ In reply to ]
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xcrogers wrote:
getbarreled wrote:
Also, my club is in an extremely affluent area where people blow money on bikes at an insane level. It would have behooved them to get this bike out on the road and looking sharp.

Then start a go fund me and get your affluent friends/acquaintances to fork over the $600.

I'm annoyed that the basis of this thread is the customer support experience (which has/will be debated) with Dimond is based on the baseline error by the part of OP/Pros closet in knowing what was being bought/sold. Did I miss a post as to why Pro Closet was selling or the OP knew he was buying an unusable bike?
Possibly you missed the part where Pros Closet was unaware of the problem and when I made them aware of it they were extremely helpful and offered to return the bike with shipping cost covered but told me to take my time and see if I could work something out with Dimond?
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Re: Secondhand Dimond [xcrogers] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
 Or maybe you missed the part where I said that I had already purchased parts from Dimond before I found out about the issue with the fork, so naturally I was inclined to try to figure out a solution other than turn around and send it all back in scrap the whole thing?

The onus is not on Dimond to make that bike right and I've never once implied that was the case. As a poster mentioned earlier, in the state of California where I live (though granted, Dimond does not), it is the legal responsibility of the seller to honor their quoted price. They didn't, and in my opinion took a bad approach about it so that's the issue I have brought up here. I thought that was pretty clear but I guess not.
Last edited by: getbarreled: Apr 8, 17 22:35
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Re: Secondhand Dimond [getbarreled] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Ok then. So to summarize my understanding..

Various items purchased from Dimond to bike build (i.e. misc closure pieces...)
Bike bought from pro closet
Bad tube discovered
Pro closet gives opportunity for new fork from Dimond before returning.
Fork miss priced (as now seems evident) but you're angry at the correction/explanation.
Rant ensues.

Got it?

________________________________________________________
Taylor Rogers - "Brakes are for quitters."
rogers racing | facebook
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Re: Secondhand Dimond [xcrogers] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Fork miss priced (as now seems evident) but you're angry at the correction/explanation/general piss off attitude about said mistake.
Rant ensues.

That's about it.
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Re: Secondhand Dimond [getbarreled] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
getbarreled wrote:
Or maybe you missed the part where I said that I had already purchased parts from Dimond before I found out about the issue with the fork, so naturally I was inclined to try to figure out a solution other than turn around and send it all back in scrap the whole thing?

The onus is not on Dimond to make that bike right and I've never once implied that was the case. As a poster mentioned earlier, in the state of California where I live (though granted, Dimond does not), it is the legal responsibility of the seller to honor their quoted price. They didn't, and in my opinion took a bad approach about it so that's the issue I have brought up here. I thought that was pretty clear but I guess not.


Just of curiosity of the legal system. But you yourself just use the word "Diamond Club". Wouldn't that be very similar to #f in the previous posters response?

(f) Pricing may be subject to a condition of sale, such as membership in a retailer-sponsored club, the purchase of a minimum quantity, or the purchase of multiples of the same item, provided that the condition is conspicuously posted in the same location as the price.


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Last edited by: Thomas Gerlach: Apr 9, 17 5:41
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Re: Secondhand Dimond [Thomas Gerlach] [ In reply to ]
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"provided that the condition is conspicuously posted in the same location as the price."


While I don't think this above criteria was met in any way, I use "Dimond club" euphemistically for the guys being rude, in order to back up their extreme and unobjective loyalty.
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Re: Secondhand Dimond [getbarreled] [ In reply to ]
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I don't own a dimond. I don't plan to get one. But ffs the guy mis-spoke. The published advertised price is $1200. The published upgrade price for original owners is $600. Clear as day. Because a guy misspeaks over the phone does not put him on the hook for $600 and it does not entitle you to a $600 discount. Get over yourself. Buy the fork or return the bike or rig something up with that tri rig stem. But stop throwing a tantrum.

-------------
Ed O'Malley
http://www.motivengines.com
@EdwardOMalley
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Re: Secondhand Dimond [RowToTri] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
This really is a world class case of butthurt.

Strava I Instagram
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Re: Secondhand Dimond [RowToTri] [ In reply to ]
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Don't you worry Ed. It's already on it's way back. No tantrum being thrown. I shared my story of what I believe was poor customer service. The hoards descended upon it from all sides. Some think I'm way off, some think I'm in the right. It's guys like you that keep coming in and trying to be snide and throw fuel on the flame, making this thread grow like it has.
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Re: Secondhand Dimond [RowToTri] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
RowToTri wrote:
The published advertised price is $1200. The published upgrade price for original owners is $600. Clear as day.

Where is this published anywhere? So far no one has produced this published pricing you speak of.
Quote Reply
Re: Secondhand Dimond [getbarreled] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
getbarreled wrote:
RowToTri wrote:
The published advertised price is $1200. The published upgrade price for original owners is $600. Clear as day.

Where is this published anywhere? So far no one has produced this published pricing you speak of.

A link to this was posted on the first page and referenced at least 4 times in this thread:

http://www.tririg.com/...d_Unveils_Super_Fork

Do you even read your own thread?

-------------
Ed O'Malley
http://www.motivengines.com
@EdwardOMalley
Quote Reply
Re: Secondhand Dimond [getbarreled] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
getbarreled wrote:
You can keep talking shit JayPee. Really it just shows that you're desperate to try and come up with a way to make me look bad cause you are in the Dimond club and get off on being an elitist prick about it. Kinda like that horse shit post a minute ago that you deleted cause it didn't make sense or any cohesive point.


Actually, I deleted it because you were making yourself look bad without my help and I am sure people were already seeing the many contradictions to your story so didn't think it needed pointing out (as indicated by the post above). And by Elitist prick do you mean I phone up bike companies and tastefully let them know how great and influential I am to force them into giving a discount on bike parts otherwise I'll kill their sales?

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Last edited by: JayPeeWhy: Apr 9, 17 6:35
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Re: Secondhand Dimond [RowToTri] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
RowToTri wrote:
getbarreled wrote:
RowToTri wrote:
The published advertised price is $1200. The published upgrade price for original owners is $600. Clear as day.

Where is this published anywhere? So far no one has produced this published pricing you speak of.

A link to this was posted on the first page and referenced at least 4 times in this thread:

http://www.tririg.com/...d_Unveils_Super_Fork

Do you even read your own thread?

Just re read it. You're full of crap. That link is nowhere in this thread. And a year and a half old independent review/press release on tri rig is hardly an up to date price sheet. I assume you think it's inappropriate for Garmin to sell the 920 at a discount since you probably paid full pop?
Quote Reply
Re: Secondhand Dimond [JayPeeWhy] [ In reply to ]
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Whatever you want to tell yourself JayPee.
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Re: Secondhand Dimond [JayPeeWhy] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
JayPeeWhy wrote:
getbarreled wrote:
You can keep talking shit JayPee. Really it just shows that you're desperate to try and come up with a way to make me look bad cause you are in the Dimond club and get off on being an elitist prick about it. Kinda like that horse shit post a minute ago that you deleted cause it didn't make sense or any cohesive point.


Actually, I deleted it because you were making yourself look bad without my help and I am sure people were already seeing the many contradictions to your story so didn't think it needed pointing out (as indicated by the post above). And by Elitist prick do you mean I phone up bike companies and tastefully let them know how great and influential I am to force them into giving a discount on bike parts otherwise I'll kill their sales?



Quote Reply
Re: Secondhand Dimond [getbarreled] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
getbarreled wrote:
RowToTri wrote:
getbarreled wrote:
RowToTri wrote:
The published advertised price is $1200. The published upgrade price for original owners is $600. Clear as day.


Where is this published anywhere? So far no one has produced this published pricing you speak of.


A link to this was posted on the first page and referenced at least 4 times in this thread:

http://www.tririg.com/...d_Unveils_Super_Fork

Do you even read your own thread?


Just re read it. You're full of crap. That link is nowhere in this thread.


You know I mentioned that you were making yourself look bad without my help .....

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Last edited by: JayPeeWhy: Apr 9, 17 6:52
Quote Reply
Re: Secondhand Dimond [getbarreled] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
getbarreled wrote:
RowToTri wrote:
getbarreled wrote:
RowToTri wrote:
The published advertised price is $1200. The published upgrade price for original owners is $600. Clear as day.


Where is this published anywhere? So far no one has produced this published pricing you speak of.


A link to this was posted on the first page and referenced at least 4 times in this thread:

http://www.tririg.com/...d_Unveils_Super_Fork

Do you even read your own thread?


Just re read it. You're full of crap. That link is nowhere in this thread. And a year and a half old independent review/press release on tri rig is hardly an up to date price sheet. I assume you think it's inappropriate for Garmin to sell the 920 at a discount since you probably paid full pop?


The link is in post 17. Look for the capitalized words "THIS ONE" that are colored blue as if it might be a hyperlink. Before calling someone full of shit, you should be a little more careful. Also before calling yourself tasteful.

-------------
Ed O'Malley
http://www.motivengines.com
@EdwardOMalley
Last edited by: RowToTri: Apr 9, 17 6:52
Quote Reply
Re: Secondhand Dimond [JayPeeWhy] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
JayPeeWhy wrote:
getbarreled wrote:
RowToTri wrote:
getbarreled wrote:
RowToTri wrote:
The published advertised price is $1200. The published upgrade price for original owners is $600. Clear as day.


Where is this published anywhere? So far no one has produced this published pricing you speak of.


A link to this was posted on the first page and referenced at least 4 times in this thread:

http://www.tririg.com/...d_Unveils_Super_Fork

Do you even read your own thread?


Just re read it. You're full of crap. That link is nowhere in this thread.


You know I mentioned that you were making yourself look bad without my help .....

give me the comment #
Quote Reply
Re: Secondhand Dimond [RowToTri] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
RowToTri wrote:
getbarreled wrote:
RowToTri wrote:
getbarreled wrote:
RowToTri wrote:
The published advertised price is $1200. The published upgrade price for original owners is $600. Clear as day.


Where is this published anywhere? So far no one has produced this published pricing you speak of.


A link to this was posted on the first page and referenced at least 4 times in this thread:

http://www.tririg.com/...d_Unveils_Super_Fork

Do you even read your own thread?


Just re read it. You're full of crap. That link is nowhere in this thread. And a year and a half old independent review/press release on tri rig is hardly an up to date price sheet. I assume you think it's inappropriate for Garmin to sell the 920 at a discount since you probably paid full pop?


The link is in post 17. Look for the capitalized words "THIS ONE" that are colored blue as if it might be a hyperlink. Before calling someone full of shit, you should be a little more careful. Also before calling yourself tasteful.

".. Before calling someone full of shit, you should be a little more careful .."

Which let's face it is the moral of this entire thread.

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Quote Reply
Re: Secondhand Dimond [RowToTri] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
RowToTri wrote:
getbarreled wrote:
RowToTri wrote:
getbarreled wrote:
RowToTri wrote:
The published advertised price is $1200. The published upgrade price for original owners is $600. Clear as day.


Where is this published anywhere? So far no one has produced this published pricing you speak of.


A link to this was posted on the first page and referenced at least 4 times in this thread:

http://www.tririg.com/...d_Unveils_Super_Fork

Do you even read your own thread?


Just re read it. You're full of crap. That link is nowhere in this thread. And a year and a half old independent review/press release on tri rig is hardly an up to date price sheet. I assume you think it's inappropriate for Garmin to sell the 920 at a discount since you probably paid full pop?


The link is in post 17. Look for the capitalized words "THIS ONE" that are colored blue as if it might be a hyperlink. Before calling someone full of shit, you should be a little more careful. Also before calling yourself tasteful.

Totally missed that. My bad.
Doesn't change the viciousness of the responses that I think were pretty unwarranted. Or the fact that this it's not anywhere in the realm of up to date published pricing.
Quote Reply
Re: Secondhand Dimond [JayPeeWhy] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
This shit is exhausting and I'm way done. If you are dying for the last word, knock yourself out JayPee. I hope we meet at a race someday and randomly hit it off and never figure out that the other guy was. It could happen. I'll be on the Ventum ;)
In the mean time, im done with this thread. I'm gonna go play with my kids.
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Re: Secondhand Dimond [getbarreled] [ In reply to ]
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I find this thread amusing because the special treatment that Dimond gives the customers who buy new makes me MORE, not less likely to buy new from them.

After all, if I shell out all that cash, I LIKE the idea of getting "special" deals. It helps future proof my purchase with regards to new improvements. I think it is only fair that if they have difficulty meeting demand that they give preference to those who are paying the money that pays their bills.
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Re: Secondhand Dimond [helo guy] [ In reply to ]
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I have been present when the LBS has put a Diamond together, you need that special treatment.
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Re: Secondhand Dimond [801pe] [ In reply to ]
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801pe wrote:
I have been present when the LBS has put a Diamond together, you need that special treatment.

If there are frequent construction/design issues then that is a far more valid complaint than all the rest of this thread.
Quote Reply
Re: Secondhand Dimond [801pe] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
801pe wrote:
I have been present when the LBS has put a Diamond together, you need that special treatment.


Even I can put that bike together and I'm pretty terrible at that kind of thing. There is a bit of a knack to getting the beam on but other than that it's dead simple. (I bring the beam in at and angle to the bolt hole and then lower the seat end. It curls in nicely then) There isn't even any proprietary brakes or integrated stem to dick around with. Which bit was he struggling with?

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Last edited by: JayPeeWhy: Apr 9, 17 16:17
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Re: Secondhand Dimond [trail] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply


WTB: TriRig Omega SV (not x). PM me if you have one :)
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Re: Secondhand Dimond [GreenPlease] [ In reply to ]
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This doesn't surprise me. I bought a second hand Dimond from a close friend of the company that arrived to me with the paint flaking and chipping off to the point where I couldn't tell if it was cracked or not. The bike was actually shipped from Dimond to me.

When I called them to get some assistance they also made it crystal clear that they had little to no interest in treating me as a current or future customer because I bought it used. I've bought quite a few bikes since then, but can't see myself buying a Dimond until the company and the product matures.
Quote Reply
Re: Secondhand Dimond [getbarreled] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
i have only read to here in this thread and i dont really paln to read further so sorry if oyu already have a conclusion)
I would suggest you and brad get in contact and sort things out as i think you are not that far off.
it could be like you are paying 900 for the fork the pro closed said they would help you with and all would be good.
I think it would work out best for all three parties involved.

I see your frustration but I think Diomond did nothing wrong here at all. they made a mistake quating the wrong price you made a mistake buying the wrong bike, and pros closet made an mistake (good to see they are the ones standing over their mistake)

I dont think there was any need going public with this thread, i think you should have suggested the 900 earlier but its never to late ;-)





getbarreled wrote:
SBRcoffee wrote:
ericlambi wrote:
You know what, I have to apologize. I re-read the e-mail conversation I had with Brad and I misinterpreted what he said. Correct, he knew you bought the bike second hand. He made a mistake quoting the fork. He changed the price to the correct one when he realized the mistake. Sounds like he spent a fair bit of time trying to help you with the purchase of the second hand bike. Sorry it hasn't worked out, good luck.


This was what I was thinking after reading the first post.

OP - I didn't feel you were trying to be entitled, etc. But the bottom line is, whether by mistake, brain fart, whatever, you were quoted a price that seems to have been a mistake. As GMAN said, new owners (like myself) paid more to upgrade to the better fork (ie. upgrading to 'brilliant' instead of 'xcut'). If Dimond honors the 600 price, thats kind of offensive to their customers who bought new. Just my .02.

Sorry to hear you are returning the bike, they are pretty cool.

One question you haven't answered, just out of interest, what specifically was wrong with the original fork? In the pics on ebay, it looks like it should have no problem fitting a stem, even if without many/any spacers underneath. Was there some sort of damage to it?


Fair enough. I see it different and if Brad had made more effort to own his mistake, even if he still could not make $600 happen, I think he could have done more to try to just "be cool" about it. Not treat me like a burden to get rid of by saying he actually has no intent of ever selling a fork to a "non-customer."

I don't know how to attach a pic. The steerer was cut WAAAAYYYY too short. With crown race, headset, and lowest dust cap, there was maybe 1/4" of steerer left to get a stem on. Not safe in mine or the opinion of a variety of bike pros. Could have probably sold it to someone with a small or xsmall but I just got turned off pretty bad.

No one is more bummed than me. I have adored Dimond bikes since I first saw one. Ask anyone that knows me. I've often referred to it as "my dream bike!"

http://www.pb3coaching.com
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Re: Secondhand Dimond [pk] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Thanks pk! I had thought through such a scenario and honestly, may have tried to make something like that work, had Brad taken the approach "hey man, I screwed up on that price and I can not sell it to you for that, but let's figure something out." Or anything else in that vain and I surely never would have been on slowtwitch complaining.

Of course if I was the sleaze that the Dimond attack dogs on here have painted me to be, I would have just hit up one of my Dimond owning friends and had them order me one. I chose instead to take the road I felt was best for all and I returned it to Pros Closet.

The upshot is that a Jimmy Seear at Ventum found this thread and called me. Feling bad about how things went down, he made me a phenomenal deal on a Ventum One. Jimmy took the approach that if you go out of your way for someone in a tough spot and treat them like you care, you'll win an evangelist for your brand. That he now has in me.
Quote Reply
Re: Secondhand Dimond [chrisgrigsby] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
chrisgrigsby wrote:
This doesn't surprise me. I bought a second hand Dimond from a close friend of the company that arrived to me with the paint flaking and chipping off to the point where I couldn't tell if it was cracked or not. The bike was actually shipped from Dimond to me.

When I called them to get some assistance they also made it crystal clear that they had little to no interest in treating me as a current or future customer because I bought it used. I've bought quite a few bikes since then, but can't see myself buying a Dimond until the company and the product matures.

Thank you for sharing!
Quote Reply
Re: Secondhand Dimond [getbarreled] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
getbarreled wrote:
The upshot is that a Jimmy Seear at Ventum found this thread and called me. Feling bad about how things went down, he made me a phenomenal deal on a Ventum One. Jimmy took the approach that if you go out of your way for someone in a tough spot and treat them like you care, you'll win an evangelist for your brand. That he now has in me.

Dimond has done that, you've seen their Dimond Mafia posting all over your thread! ;)
Quote Reply
Re: Secondhand Dimond [James Haycraft] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
James Haycraft wrote:
getbarreled wrote:
The upshot is that a Jimmy Seear at Ventum found this thread and called me. Feling bad about how things went down, he made me a phenomenal deal on a Ventum One. Jimmy took the approach that if you go out of your way for someone in a tough spot and treat them like you care, you'll win an evangelist for your brand. That he now has in me.

Dimond has done that, you've seen their Dimond Mafia posting all over your thread! ;)

Haha, oh yeah.
Quote Reply
Re: Secondhand Dimond [getbarreled] [ In reply to ]
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The triathlon community is enriched by the entrepreneurial spirit of TJ, the Dimond team, and other innovative small businesses that are advancing the technology of this sport.

We all know it sucks to have something not work and be expensive to fix. We want companies to help us.

You just have to adjust your expectations when you are dealing with a small business that is struggling to stay profitable in a highly competitive non-growth business. I don't know what the Dimond finances look like, but I suspect they are challenged.

I don't own a Dimond, but I have met some of the guys at races. Good people. I did buy a Hen House and am happy to support them.

Taking a direct anonymous shot at a small business like this on a prominent message board should only be done when you have a flawless argument. Give these guys a break.
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Re: Secondhand Dimond [Poon] [ In reply to ]
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I get your points and I think they are valid.

As I have said repeatedly throughout this thread, much would've been different if they had just treated the situation differently. Treated me differently. When you're A small yet high-end brand like you're describing, the way you treat people matters all the more. If I had been treated better, regardless of mistakes in pricing, I wouldn't have been on here complaining. And I think there's been no anonymity. I emailed TJ directly about this exact situation. His response was lackluster and definitely implied that he also wasn't interested in taking the time to understand where I was coming from. Front to back, it felt like Dimond never gave a shit.

Jimmy at Ventum seized an opportunity by making me feel like he gave a shit.

I think there's a famous Maya Anjelou quote about all this.
Last edited by: getbarreled: Apr 14, 17 8:25
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Re: Secondhand Dimond [James Haycraft] [ In reply to ]
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Trek has Carl. Cannondale, Rinard. Ventum, Sears. Specialized, Chris and Mark (and someone else?). Cervelo, Jakub. Felt, previously Dave (RIP - but now represents 3T well). TriRig, Nick. Etc.

Has Dimond ever had anyone spend any amount of time on ST (other than the Mafia)? Even larger brands appear to feel its important enough to interact with the community. I find the absence curious. Or maybe I've missed their presence?

"One Line Robert"
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Re: Secondhand Dimond [wsrobert] [ In reply to ]
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It would be an interesting analysis - how Dimond has gained such a "social media" (I'm including ST in this) foothold. Back when they were first emerging they basically contacted anyone who had placed maybe... top 5? age group in IM events and said "hey we'll give you a deal." Team Dimond was born. Then you have the mafia who jumps on any thread regarding Dimond (or even Ventum, which is sort of odd). So instead of engineers and brains behind the brand we get...JayPeeWhy, who got a deal and good customer service.
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Re: Secondhand Dimond [James Haycraft] [ In reply to ]
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JayPeeWhy isn't sponsored? As in, given at least a bike.

"One Line Robert"
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Re: Secondhand Dimond [James Haycraft] [ In reply to ]
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Just to play devils advocate...

A good friend just had a near new cervelo P5 crack while using it on his trainer. Purchased new from a fairly large authorized dealer. Cervelo refused to warranty it because of mention of the trainer. They offered a crash replacement price instead (north of 1k).
If he were to come on here posting about Cervelo being a bunch of assholes, I'm guessing the 'Cervelo Mafia' would jump in, no?
I think the same would happen with any brand. But lets be honest, most folks like to pick on Dimond. It's a boutique brand, not everyone likes the look (fair enough), and not everyone can afford it. So they shit all over it instead.

Now that said, I do agree that they, and every company, should make an effort to be more active on here. Most companies could learn a lesson or two from 'Carl'.
Quote Reply
Re: Secondhand Dimond [James Haycraft] [ In reply to ]
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James Haycraft wrote:
how Dimond has gained such a "social media" (I'm including ST in this) foothold.

Also because Jesse Thomas. Because TJ Tollakson. Because Jordan Rapp. Because Smashfest Queen.

The cool kids ride Dimond and so it's very cool to like and violently defend Dimond, even as quality and customer service concerns with the product/company persist on this forum.
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Re: Secondhand Dimond [getbarreled] [ In reply to ]
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Thought I posted this earlier, but don't see it, so here goes again.

When you say the steerer tube was cut too short do you mean it is too short for you to adjust to fit you, or that it is too short to safely fit a stem on it?

If the former, then that's on you and you are responsible. If the latter, then it I'd start putting your blame on the seller, not Dimond.
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Re: Secondhand Dimond [treyedr] [ In reply to ]
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Steerer was cut too short to safely put a stem on at all even with the worlds lowest dust cap and no spacer.

It was completely an issue for the seller to deal with and they did by returning the bike and all is fine today. My issue was never once that it was the responsibility of Dimond to replace it.
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Re: Secondhand Dimond [getbarreled] [ In reply to ]
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This thread reminds me of an article I once read, that found that malpractice suits had much more to do with "bedside manner" than they did with actual mistakes by the MD.
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Re: Secondhand Dimond [lanierb] [ In reply to ]
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 The obvious difference being that no one here is looking to force anyone into compliance or recompense.
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Re: Secondhand Dimond [SBRcoffee] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
SBRcoffee wrote:
Just to play devils advocate...

A good friend just had a near new cervelo P5 crack while using it on his trainer. Purchased new from a fairly large authorized dealer. Cervelo refused to warranty it because of mention of the trainer. They offered a crash replacement price instead (north of 1k).
If he were to come on here posting about Cervelo being a bunch of assholes, I'm guessing the 'Cervelo Mafia' would jump in, no?
I think the same would happen with any brand. But lets be honest, most folks like to pick on Dimond. It's a boutique brand, not everyone likes the look (fair enough), and not everyone can afford it. So they shit all over it instead.

Now that said, I do agree that they, and every company, should make an effort to be more active on here. Most companies could learn a lesson or two from 'Carl'.

I don't disagree, I'd be upset at Cervelo in this context as well. But to be honest, a "crash replacement" cost of a P5 frameset would probably be $3000+. So, if it's just "north of $1k" that's actually pretty incredible. But, I'd still hope it was replaced under warranty. Unless I didn't believe my friend knew how to install bikes in trainers.
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Re: Secondhand Dimond [chrisgrigsby] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
^^^
This happened more than people think...
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Re: Secondhand Dimond [bikecritic] [ In reply to ]
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bikecritic wrote:
^^^
This happened more than people think...

What specifically?
To be more specific re my previous post, -I- used the term 'crash replacement'. I'm honestly not sure what they were calling the 'deal', all I know is he broke a near new frame on kickr only use, and he has to pay about 1300 for a replacement.
If he had crashed, that would be a good deal. But he didn't, and shouldnt have to pay a penny IMHO.
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Re: Secondhand Dimond [getbarreled] [ In reply to ]
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In the weeks since I posted this, Ruster Sports (Dimond) has gone on to prove that their customer service is actually very bad and it's a top down problem.
Pro tip for general customer service:
When your company makes an error and it results in your inability to issue a normal refund, notify them that you are seeking a solution, don't wait for them to contact you. When you offer the option of mailed check, or PayPal, and they choose PayPal, don't wait for the customer to contact you again, days later, asking why they've not received the refund via PayPal, to mention that only the president of the company (TJ Tollakson) can issue PayPal refunds and he's "busy" driving to IMTX. That information should've been shared when the original check/PayPal options were given. Lastly, "busy driving to IMTX" does not excuse it taking 7 more days (9 total, and 12 since they acknowledged that it was their mistake) to get a PayPal refund issued. It's either apathy, elitism, or incompetence. None of which are acceptable for a high-end brand, operating in today's world of rapidly shared information and where exceptional customer service is ever more the norm.
Meanwhile, Ventum has been crushing it with constant contact and help with every little detail. Jimmy and his team have it figured out!!
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Re: Secondhand Dimond [getbarreled] [ In reply to ]
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I understood your point at the beginning , but i think diamond can be happy not to have you as a customer , given your petty character.


Quote:
getbarreled wrote:
In the weeks since I posted this, Ruster Sports (Dimond) has gone on to prove that their customer service is actually very bad and it's a top down problem.
Pro tip for general customer service:
When your company makes an error and it results in your inability to issue a normal refund, notify them that you are seeking a solution, don't wait for them to contact you. When you offer the option of mailed check, or PayPal, and they choose PayPal, don't wait for the customer to contact you again, days later, asking why they've not received the refund via PayPal, to mention that only the president of the company (TJ Tollakson) can issue PayPal refunds and he's "busy" driving to IMTX. That information should've been shared when the original check/PayPal options were given. Lastly, "busy driving to IMTX" does not excuse it taking 7 more days (9 total, and 12 since they acknowledged that it was their mistake) to get a PayPal refund issued. It's either apathy, elitism, or incompetence. None of which are acceptable for a high-end brand, operating in today's world of rapidly shared information and where exceptional customer service is ever more the norm.
Meanwhile, Ventum has been crushing it with constant contact and help with every little detail. Jimmy and his team have it figured out!!

http://www.pb3coaching.com
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Re: Secondhand Dimond [getbarreled] [ In reply to ]
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Remind me why you think Dimond should issue you a refund on a bike you did not buy from them.
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Re: Secondhand Dimond [treyedr] [ In reply to ]
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I think he's looking for the refund to the misc part he ordered BEFORE the fork debacle went down.... Though, trashing the company before finalizing any sale/refund doesn't seem like the best play.

Also.... an obvious solution to the whole problem (perhaps someone said this, I cant imagine I'm the first). You should have had Pro Closet refund you $600 of the original purchase of the bike/frame. If, as I recall the tube is too short for ANY use they basically have a piece of carbon laying around that anyone who buys the bike will need to pick up a replacement fork for (they'll probably know the cost of which by this point in the thread). Why didn't you just tell them (pro closet) to cut you the refund, pay Dimond for the fork (at the correct price) and call it a day? You're not out any more money than you originally thought, pro closet does right by you for selling you an useable bike (without having had disclosed it) and they're not stuck with the inventory.

A final point, and perhaps what gets me the most is that if you really had wanted the Dimond you should have just saved your pennies (I did). When your plan for picking one up on the cheap went out the door and you made it Dimond's problem, not yours the dream went from... I want a Dimond, to I want a cheap bike. Being able to roll with it, right or wrong is a key part of being a triathlete. Case in point, last weekend Jesse Thomas's tri suit ripped on the swim exit and he duct taped that shit shut and went on to crush his race last weekend, I don't see him complaining.

________________________________________________________
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Re: Secondhand Dimond [getbarreled] [ In reply to ]
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They're probably reading this thread and thinking "Why the fuck should I go out of my way to help this guy?"

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Re: Secondhand Dimond [JasoninHalifax] [ In reply to ]
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Don't worry, that ship has long sailed. Issuing a refund and communicating that there are delays due to your own fuck up, in no way falls under the definition of "going out of your way to help someone."
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Re: Secondhand Dimond [getbarreled] [ In reply to ]
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When you go and bad mouth a person (Dimond is more like a group of people than a large faceless corp) they are more likely to put you last in the queue for all of the things they have to do that day. Be nice, and they are more likely to treat you well.

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Re: Secondhand Dimond [xcrogers] [ In reply to ]
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Yes, this is for brand new product I purchased at the onset. The refund was finalized this morning.

The solution with pro's Closet you mention was discussed and was not an option. They were willing to issue some refund but not that much. The plan was to offset the $600 originally quoted, with the $300 that they were willing to get back on the bike.

Your third paragraph here misses the point of my whole post and maybe I'm just really shitty at communicating because apparently a lot of people seem to have missed it. I never made it dimonds problem. My problem was that dimond treated me poorly after making a mistake on their part and now we see this again with their issuing of the refund.

Interestingly enough, it seems that the dimond mafia has shout down enough people that those who have had issues with their customer service choose rather to just hide in the shadows. I've been direct messaged by a handful of people since my thread here and in another forum has broken loose. People who have bought full price bikes crime them and still had Poor enough service that they took the time to write me.

xcrogers wrote:
I think he's looking for the refund to the misc part he ordered BEFORE the fork debacle went down.... Though, trashing the company before finalizing any sale/refund doesn't seem like the best play.

Also.... an obvious solution to the whole problem (perhaps someone said this, I cant imagine I'm the first). You should have had Pro Closet refund you $600 of the original purchase of the bike/frame. If, as I recall the tube is too short for ANY use they basically have a piece of carbon laying around that anyone who buys the bike will need to pick up a replacement fork for (they'll probably know the cost of which by this point in the thread). Why didn't you just tell them (pro closet) to cut you the refund, pay Dimond for the fork (at the correct price) and call it a day? You're not out any more money than you originally thought, pro closet does right by you for selling you an useable bike (without having had disclosed it) and they're not stuck with the inventory.

A final point, and perhaps what gets me the most is that if you really had wanted the Dimond you should have just saved your pennies (I did). When your plan for picking one up on the cheap went out the door and you made it Dimond's problem, not yours the dream went from... I want a Dimond, to I want a cheap bike. Being able to roll with it, right or wrong is a key part of being a triathlete. Case in point, last weekend Jesse Thomas's tri suit ripped on the swim exit and he duct taped that shit shut and went on to crush his race last weekend, I don't see him complaining.
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Re: Secondhand Dimond [JasoninHalifax] [ In reply to ]
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JasoninHalifax wrote:
When you go and bad mouth a person (Dimond is more like a group of people than a large faceless corp) they are more likely to put you last in the queue for all of the things they have to do that day. Be nice, and they are more likely to treat you well.

To be honest, not all 'clients' are valuable. I run a small consulting business and I will walk away from potential bad clients - in a polite way. Even if they rant/review me on-line, it frequently exposes their character and not mine.
I'm kind of glad Dimond has not chimed in here. There are differing comments and opinions here but I feel the OP's stance speaks for itself, nothing to add.

==============================================
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Re: Secondhand Dimond [getbarreled] [ In reply to ]
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I imagine this thread is going to take a new direction...

http://forum.slowtwitch.com/.../?page=unread#unread

Perhaps you should consider yourself lucky that you have a valid reason to return your frame.
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Re: Secondhand Dimond [beston] [ In reply to ]
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beston wrote:
I imagine this thread is going to take a new direction...

http://forum.slowtwitch.com/.../?page=unread#unread

Perhaps you should consider yourself lucky that you have a valid reason to return your frame.

WOW!! Thanks for sharing!
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Re: Secondhand Dimond [buck_shot11] [ In reply to ]
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buck_shot11 wrote:
You are putting to much on the manufacturer. Their primary interest is selling new bikes and I get that. You can ask any primary Dimond owner and they will ALL say that the customer service is second to none!

ALL except one. (unless of course by primary, you mean the first buyer of the bike)

If I knew a bike company wouldn't help future owners of my bike, I reckon that would impact the value of the bike on the second hand market. If the bike company is killing my resale price, I'm going to take note of that.

Imagine if Chevy did that with cars? They don't give a rats ass if you are the first owner of the car or 10th owner. If you need a part, they sell you the part. (notwithstanding the knock off parts, I believe car manufacturers sell their parts at the same price to everyone)

TriDork

"Happiness is a myth. All you can hope for is to get laid once in a while, drunk once in a while and to eat chocolate every day"
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Re: Secondhand Dimond [JayPeeWhy] [ In reply to ]
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JayPeeWhy wrote:
TL;DR version

Guy buys a bike from a third party that doesn't work, wants the part from Dimond for half price when its only available at full price, cries online because he's not getting his own way in the hope they'll cave.

TL;DR JayPeeWhy jumps to a lot of unsupported and derogatory conclusions about the OP's story. Then when proven wrong he won't admit it.

Can't wait to see what JPY has to say about Rapp. [insert popcorn eating gift]
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Re: Secondhand Dimond [The Guardian] [ In reply to ]
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The Guardian wrote:
JayPeeWhy wrote:
TL;DR version

Guy buys a bike from a third party that doesn't work, wants the part from Dimond for half price when its only available at full price, cries online because he's not getting his own way in the hope they'll cave.

TL;DR JayPeeWhy jumps to a lot of unsupported and derogatory conclusions about the OP's story. Then when proven wrong he won't admit it.

Can't wait to see what JPY has to say about Rapp. [insert popcorn eating gift]

By unsupported do you mean the OP had already clearly indicated to everyone each of the items I pointed out. Maybe I should not have taken him at his word.

As for Rapp. I would be pissed if my beam moved like his does or if I had to glue my seat rails. I don't but I don't think he is making it up. I don't know enough about his contract to say whether he's made a stupid and naive mistake or whether he was within his rights to sign for Diamondback. I do know that he should have borrowed Jessie's ... it's apparently quicker :)

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Re: Secondhand Dimond [JasoninHalifax] [ In reply to ]
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JasoninHalifax wrote:
They're probably reading this thread and thinking "Why the fuck should I go out of my way to help this guy?"

If I were them, I would be thinking "Damn, we should have just taken that guy's $600 and sent him a fork. We turned a potential brand advocate into a public detractor. Let's think a little more 'big picture' next time something like this happens."

Even if the responses here were 2:1 in Dimond's favor, the brand still suffered way more than $600 in bad PR in this thread.

Of course it's all small potatoes now that the Rapp bomb has dropped.
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Re: Secondhand Dimond [gary p] [ In reply to ]
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gary p wrote:
JasoninHalifax wrote:
They're probably reading this thread and thinking "Why the fuck should I go out of my way to help this guy?"

If I were them, I would be thinking "Damn, we should have just taken that guy's $600 and sent him a fork. We turned a potential brand advocate into a public detractor. Let's think a little more 'big picture' next time something like this happens."

Even if the responses here were 2:1 in Dimond's favor, the brand still suffered way more than $600 in bad PR in this thread.

Of course it's all small potatoes now that the Rapp bomb has dropped.

I think you're right Gary P, given that this is from a PM conversation I just had tonight...

"Hey nate! Were you the one that had problems with dimond??

I ask because I was literally days from making a deposit on a dimond until I saw what you experienced with the Fork and now jordan rapp...

...Wowwww I was just talking with them about building a marquise. This has 100% convinced me to not go with dimond."

That guy is knocking on Ventum's door tomorrow morning. It's not that hard to treat someone like you give a shit, Like Jimmy Seear did for me. Makes them crazy loyal. After the private convo I had with TJ, it became clear that he didn't give a shit.
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Re: Secondhand Dimond [gary p] [ In reply to ]
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Bullshit buying a used bike is always a gamble. Then having a hissy fit on slowtwich because your gamble failed .......tuff titty
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Re: Secondhand Dimond [rhudson] [ In reply to ]
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rhudson wrote:
Bullshit buying a used bike is always a gamble. Then having a hissy fit on slowtwich because your gamble failed .......tuff titty

Another one misses the point. Eee aye eee aye OH
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Re: Secondhand Dimond [rhudson] [ In reply to ]
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Make sure you keep a close eye on your bikes BB area. ;-)
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Re: Secondhand Dimond [rhudson] [ In reply to ]
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rhudson wrote:
Wow I have nothing but good things to say about Dimond and Brad. I ordered a bike last year with custom paint. Bike came it was a stock paint job. Called Brad he just said something happened in the pipe line and they would take care of it. Sent the bike back told him I would be Ironman Wisconsin in 5 weeks just bring the bike there in there demo van that would be fine. Came home 2 weeks later there was a box from Dimond sitting on my porch. The bike was beautiful raced it at Wisconsin. Dimond is top rate to me.

Can you think more critically about this vignette?

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Re: Secondhand Dimond [getbarreled] [ In reply to ]
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This thread is fundamentally night and day compared to Rapp's.

It kind of boils down to a non-customer of Dimond's (in this instance and for the purposes of this discussion) being quoted a certain price (a customer price) and later not having that price honored by Dimond. Dimond could either honor that price or not. They were under no obligation to honor it. Sure, they could have said "our bad on the misquote, so we will sell it to you for $600" or they could hold steadfast to their policy. That's their decision to make and I'm completely indifferent to it. Personally, I would have probably said "my bad" and sold it for $600 but Dimond chose to stick 100% by their policy. Okay. That's their choice.

The Rapp thread is a whole different animal. Unfortunately, it will give this thread some credibility, and it shouldn't. They're not remotely the same thing.

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Gear: Dimond Bikes | Desoto Sport | Hoka One One
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Re: Secondhand Dimond [rhudson] [ In reply to ]
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rhudson wrote:
Bullshit buying a used bike is always a gamble. Then having a hissy fit on slowtwich because your gamble failed .......tuff titty

Huh?
I don't get half the responses to this.
Buying second hand is a bit of a gamble because you don't know how the bike has been treated and maintained and can't be certain if it's in the condition you hope it is. But, as I read it, that's not what this is about. It's about the way Dimond have handled his inquiries about getting spare parts. His being a second owner should be pretty immaterial. But if they are trying to use an incentive pricing scheme by selling at higher price to non-original owners, they need to be clear and fair about it. If they gave an erroneous quote and hadn't had the price listed I think they should have apologised at the very least, and given their exposure to social media, it would have been wise to try and honour the quote or split the difference. To try and turn a customer you've disappointed into your salesman by offering them the cheaper price if they refer a customer is both insulting and idiotic. You want them to go talk to prospective customers about the brand that they now have a grievance with? It doesn't matter if their objective would be to find you a customer. Whether they succeed or fail, the outcome is likely negative for Dimond.

I know nothing about Dimond's bikes, business model, pricing or customer service performance except bits and piece's I've come across on ST. They're not of specific interest to me. However, it's quite clear that many people have invested themselves in this brand emotionally for some reason. Responses to Dimond related comments always seem to be either ultra-positive or ultra negative. It's rather odd....
Last edited by: Ai_1: Apr 27, 17 5:40
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Re: Secondhand Dimond [The GMAN] [ In reply to ]
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The GMAN wrote:
This thread is fundamentally night and day compared to Rapp's.

It kind of boils down to a non-customer of Dimond's (in this instance and for the purposes of this discussion) being quoted a certain price (a customer price) and later not having that price honored by Dimond. Dimond could either honor that price or not. They were under no obligation to honor it. Sure, they could have said "our bad on the misquote, so we will sell it to you for $600" or they could hold steadfast to their policy. That's their decision to make and I'm completely indifferent to it. Personally, I would have probably said "my bad" and sold it for $600 but Dimond chose to stick 100% by their policy. Okay. That's their choice.

The Rapp thread is a whole different animal. Unfortunately, it will give this thread some credibility, and it shouldn't. They're not remotely the same thing.

Agree, they are totally different but they are both helping to paint a very ugly picture of the company.

Dimond should understand some people would have to buy secondhand bc of the price of their product. Idk but in my mind anyone that owms and rides a dimond makes that person a dimond owner. First hand owner, secondhand owner, whatever...but an owner nonetheless. They should have handled this situaton a little differently. Or let's say if they truly cared about growing their brand and their customers and/owners (however you want to classify a secondhand owner), they would have handled it a little differently.
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Re: Secondhand Dimond [The GMAN] [ In reply to ]
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The GMAN wrote:

The Rapp thread is a whole different animal. Unfortunately, it will give this thread some credibility, and it shouldn't. They're not remotely the same thing.


They're different animals, for sure. This is a tiny deal compared to that huge deal. The one common thread, however, is that in both cases, Dimond appears to be more interested in being right than rich; that winning an argument is worth any bad PR that comes as a result. These guys seem to think they're made of teflon. We're about to find out if that's true.

I work in retail. There are lots of times I want to tell a customer or potential customer to go pound sand. But in this day and age of social media, google ratings, yelp, etc, you have to consider the costs of doing so very carefully. Stubbornness can and will cost you more than you think you are saving.

I often find that if I just let the customer vent, without interrupting, and when they're finished say something as simple as "I understand how you feel. I'm sorry we made you feel that way. We don't want unhappy customers. What would it take to make you happy?", the answer is usually less than what I initially thought.
Last edited by: gary p: Apr 27, 17 5:58
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Re: Secondhand Dimond [The GMAN] [ In reply to ]
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The GMAN wrote:
This thread is fundamentally night and day compared to Rapp's.

The Rapp thread is a whole different animal. Unfortunately, it will give this thread some credibility, and it shouldn't. They're not remotely the same thing.

Agreed.

Comical timing though.
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Re: Secondhand Dimond [tridork] [ In reply to ]
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With regards to Dimond not selling replacement parts. They do. The thing is though, I am not convinced the OP had a Superfork to begin with. I asked a couple of times but no response.

The Superfork being in short supply was being produced as standard on the new bikes and as 'thanks for being a customer upgrade' for original owners of the old bike. Which I think is fair enough.

I am not sure that replacement parts were not being sold. I may be wrong.

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Re: Secondhand Dimond [JayPeeWhy] [ In reply to ]
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He didn't, he wanted to buy one. He was quoted one price, but then the price changed, and Dimond was firm on the change.
Probably could have been handled better, but that's the whole story as far as I know.
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Re: Secondhand Dimond [SBRcoffee] [ In reply to ]
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SBRcoffee wrote:
He didn't, he wanted to buy one. He was quoted one price, but then the price changed, and Dimond was firm on the change.
Probably could have been handled better, but that's the whole story as far as I know.

In that case. The fact they offered him it at full cost is more than they offer anyone else.

The price likely changed because the information they were presented with changed. Even if accidentally. I get the OP being upset but he has displayed a lack of understanding about the product and pricing, a lack of understanding not matched by Dimond.

I don't think this happened but .... The worst case scenario is that the OP was bang in the money and that's Dimond screwed up and wiped the wrong price. Even if that is the case I still don't understand why someone would want to sting the company and hold them to that price though once they knew a mistake had been made. But I understand how some people would. I just don't think it's very fair.

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Re: Secondhand Dimond [JayPeeWhy] [ In reply to ]
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JayPee I don't aim to kick shit up here again. I frankly don't understand why you're as aggressive in your attacks against me and maybe it just comes down to poor communication on my part. Like I said over and over and over through this thread, I had a superfork that was unusable, I wanted to get the bike out on the road because I was excited about the bike, I called to get a price and they said 600. Then when I emailed them to place the order they said 1200. Everything that transpired after and my being pissed off and wanting to complain, comes down to the fact that they were shitty about the mistake that they made. Why is it so hard to grasp this concept? If your company makes a mistake, act like you care and maybe feel somewhat remorseful about it. It seems very clear that you're pretty emotionally invested in the brand if you're willing to hurl insults and allegations like you have throughout this thread. Or you're just a good old fashion schoolyard bully.
For me, maybe I should thank you because the way that this thread has transpired caused Jimmy over at Ventum to go out of his way to make me a deal. Can't help but think that your demeanor was some degree of a motivating factor, but that's speculation. Either way, shit worked out pretty well for me and I am glad that I'm not tied to the brand that is Dimond at this point.
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Re: Secondhand Dimond [getbarreled] [ In reply to ]
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getbarreled wrote:
JayPee I don't aim to kick shit up here again. I frankly don't understand why you're as aggressive in your attacks against me and maybe it just comes down to poor communication on my part. Like I said over and over and over through this thread, I had a superfork that was unusable, I wanted to get the bike out on the road because I was excited about the bike, I called to get a price and they said 600. Then when I emailed them to place the order they said 1200. Everything that transpired after and my being pissed off and wanting to complain, comes down to the fact that they were shitty about the mistake that they made. Why is it so hard to grasp this concept? If your company makes a mistake, act like you care and maybe feel somewhat remorseful about it. It seems very clear that you're pretty emotionally invested in the brand if you're willing to hurl insults and allegations like you have throughout this thread. Or you're just a good old fashion schoolyard bully.
For me, maybe I should thank you because the way that this thread has transpired caused Jimmy over at Ventum to go out of his way to make me a deal. Can't help but think that your demeanor was some degree of a motivating factor, but that's speculation. Either way, shit worked out pretty well for me and I am glad that I'm not tied to the brand that is Dimond at this point.

I wasn't aiming to be aggressive in my last couple of posts, apologies if they read that way. My initials posts may have been more spirited, mainly because I feel strongly about people trying to wangle an advantage over others. Not everything should bend to those that shout loudest.

I doubt very much that Jimmy from Ventum bases his sales decisions on my posts but if you feel he does then you owe me a beer. You can buy me that beer at Victoria 70.3. Dimond vs Ventum. Game on.

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Re: Secondhand Dimond [JayPeeWhy] [ In reply to ]
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You're racing Victoria? Deal! Loser buys beers!! *pretty sure that'll be me* ;)
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Re: Secondhand Dimond [ericlambi] [ In reply to ]
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Personally do not know much about the company or bikes, but thought I would state on the Quote.

There are actually a number of states where a verbal agreement is bound by law, so if he quoted 600, then legally he has to honor that according to a number of states in the US. On the other hand as weird as it appears if it had been in an email that rule does not apply, because it is not verbal.
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Re: Secondhand Dimond [JayPeeWhy] [ In reply to ]
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JayPeeWhy wrote:
With regards to Dimond not selling replacement parts. They do. The thing is though, I am not convinced the OP had a Superfork to begin with. I asked a couple of times but no response.

I didn't know that was ever in doubt.
Picture isn't clear cause I wasn't trying to show that it was a Superfork, but you can make out the unique shape with the brake cowling off.
Last edited by: getbarreled: Apr 27, 17 12:18
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Re: Secondhand Dimond [getbarreled] [ In reply to ]
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Why won't my picture attachment show up?
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Re: Secondhand Dimond [getbarreled] [ In reply to ]
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getbarreled wrote:
Why won't my picture attachment show up?

Don't know, I believe you though, I just don't think it was ever mentioned and I asked a couple of times.

The images are a pain, you have to upload them to something like tinypic.com and then use their IMG code link. That way ST doesn't have to store and serve images.

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Re: Secondhand Dimond [JayPeeWhy] [ In reply to ]
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 Oh, yeah I suck at this whole forum thing. Facebook has ruined me for the effortless sharing of nonsense.

On an aside, I'd like to be a fly on the wall and Pros Closet with that frame I sent back. It hasn't popped back up on eBay which makes me wonder if they're trying to go after the guy that sold it to them or what. I can't imagine that they like to take a 2000+ dollars hit.
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Re: Secondhand Dimond [getbarreled] [ In reply to ]
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getbarreled wrote:
Oh, yeah I suck at this whole forum thing. Facebook has ruined me for the effortless sharing of nonsense.

On an aside, I'd like to be a fly on the wall and Pros Closet with that frame I sent back. It hasn't popped back up on eBay which makes me wonder if they're trying to go after the guy that sold it to them or what. I can't imagine that they like to take a 2000+ dollars hit.

I crashed my bike in November, hard. The insurance company sold it, some guy in Vancouver won the auction, broke it down and was selling the parts as 'excellent condition'. The wheels were buckled and the brake track gnurled (spelling?), the frame seemed ok but who knows, the TriRig Alpha X bars had cracked around the risers screws underneath the base bar and were dangerous. Scary stuff. I reached out to a view try clubs and posted on ST ..... you have to be careful what you buy used!

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Re: Secondhand Dimond [JayPeeWhy] [ In reply to ]
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Customer service is a really tricky thing, but at the end of the day you will never satisfy everyone.

I've just had some really bad service from my LBS (Torpedo 7 here in New Zealand). After 4 weeks, they finally got it right (assuming the courier drops the part off today as promised)

A number of years ago, I rode every sunday with a guy. He was a bike importer, along with some other products. He gave me a discount on stuff even tho he didn't sell retail at that point. All good. Then he opened a store and I became one of his first and one of his most regular customers. I still got the discount. As he grew he got staff. Staff never gave me the discount, but he did. Still all good. Then I wanted some race wheels so checked his website to find out how much they were and at the time they were listed at $2100 per pair. No worries I had that much money so headed to the store. I got to the store and none in stock but they would order them for me. The price somehow became $2350! WTF? So I pointed out the discrepancy and the staff member said $2350. I called over the owner, and he said they couldn't honour the $2100 price. I grudgingly accepted that I wasn't going to get the wheels for $2100 so I said they should update the website. The owner said, "hardly anyone ever buys them so I'm not going to bother changing the price on the website". Da fuq? I decided not to order the wheels, but rather, ordered them online from an American store. Even with shipping they came in under even the $2100 price here. I never shopped at that store again, and rather unsurprisingly, they went out of business. He even had to sell his house! Karma's a bitch :-)

On the assumption that the OP has been truthfully relaying the events, that's crap service by the manufacturer. There are any number of ways they could have handled it better, but I can also understand that no-one is 100% all the time. However, now there is one very public negative reaction to their brand and for a few hundred dollars, they could have had a really positive outcome instead. In this day and age, with "trial by social media", it would probably have been better for them to just suck up the dollars and moved on, learning from the experience.

TriDork

"Happiness is a myth. All you can hope for is to get laid once in a while, drunk once in a while and to eat chocolate every day"
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Re: Secondhand Dimond [tridork] [ In reply to ]
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tridork wrote:
In this day and age, with "trial by social media", it would probably have been better for them to just suck up the dollars and moved on, learning from the experience.

Obviously I think you're right. The fact that this thread has now grown WAAAAYYYY beyond what I had ever imagined it would, I don't know how it could be denied. They could have said, "We're so sorry for telling you the wrong number. We can't sell it for that, but we made a mistake so let's work something out." I may not have been over the moon, but I wouldn't have come on here and pounded the keys. The guy I was talking to last night who was about to buy a marquise but saw this thread and hesitated, and is now in talks with Ventum would likely have already made his deposit with Dimond and never thought twice.
At the end of the day, attitude is everything.
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Re: Secondhand Dimond [getbarreled] [ In reply to ]
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getbarreled wrote:
At the end of the day, attitude is everything.

Couldn't agree more. Companies like Flo and DeSoto get it. Treat all customers well, with respect and some compromise when necessary (especially when you have made a mistake) and in the long run you'll reap the benefits.

Telling you to basically pound sand and bringing a lawsuit against Jordan (a lawsuit FFS over a small pro sponsorship deal!) tells me all I need to know about Dimond.
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Re: Secondhand Dimond [Thomas Gerlach] [ In reply to ]
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Thomas Gerlach wrote:

I certainly don't think they are saying "fuck off", but I do think they want to make it clear there are advantages to being an original owner. .

I guess they can do this if they want, but they are effectively saying "we are deliberately sabotaging the used market for our bikes."

In the long run, that is not going to be good for their business.

If I buy a Cervelo, for instance, I know there is going to be a strong resale market and whenever I want to upgrade I will be able to sell my bike quickly and for a strong price.

I'm already taking a huge risk by buying a bike from a smaller lesser known company. It's already going to be iffy in the secondhand market. If they go out and deliberately sabotage my ability to sell my bike when/if I want something else, then sorry, I'm moving on.
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Re: Secondhand Dimond [alathIN] [ In reply to ]
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alathIN wrote:
Thomas Gerlach wrote:


I certainly don't think they are saying "fuck off", but I do think they want to make it clear there are advantages to being an original owner. .


I guess they can do this if they want, but they are effectively saying "we are deliberately sabotaging the used market for our bikes."

In the long run, that is not going to be good for their business.

If I buy a Cervelo, for instance, I know there is going to be a strong resale market and whenever I want to upgrade I will be able to sell my bike quickly and for a strong price.

I'm already taking a huge risk by buying a bike from a smaller lesser known company. It's already going to be iffy in the secondhand market. If they go out and deliberately sabotage my ability to sell my bike when/if I want something else, then sorry, I'm moving on.

I totally agree. That is generally why I tell people NOT to buy 'flight by night' brands or inexpensive brands if they are planning on reselling at some point. If you are using to EOL that is slightly less important.


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Re: Secondhand Dimond [alathIN] [ In reply to ]
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alathIN wrote:

If I buy a Cervelo, for instance, I know there is going to be a strong resale market and whenever I want to upgrade I will be able to sell my bike quickly and for a strong price.


Let's say you bought a new Cervelo from an LBS (which is where you have to buy it), and you messed up cutting the steerer tube on the fork. I'd bet there's a strong chance if you went back to the LBS you bought it from you'd get a bro deal on a replacement fork - something like wholesale + shipping. You'd catch some grief from the LBS mechanics for trying to be your own mechanic, but you'd probably get the deal. I've gotten deals like this many times.

If you brought a Cervelo you bought on the Slowtwitch classifieds into an LBS and complained that the prior owner cut the steerer tube wrong, and you needed a new fork, I can almost guarantee you'd be paying full retail for a new fork.

If Dimond had a fault, here, I think it's attitude and communication, not so much policy.
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Re: Secondhand Dimond [trail] [ In reply to ]
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trail wrote:
alathIN wrote:


If I buy a Cervelo, for instance, I know there is going to be a strong resale market and whenever I want to upgrade I will be able to sell my bike quickly and for a strong price.



Let's say you bought a new Cervelo from an LBS (which is where you have to buy it), and you messed up cutting the steerer tube on the fork. I'd bet there's a strong chance if you went back to the LBS you bought it from you'd get a bro deal on a replacement fork - something like wholesale + shipping. You'd catch some grief from the LBS mechanics for trying to be your own mechanic, but you'd probably get the deal. I've gotten deals like this many times.

If you brought a Cervelo you bought on the Slowtwitch classifieds into an LBS and complained that the prior owner cut the steerer tube wrong, and you needed a new fork, I can almost guarantee you'd be paying full retail for a new fork.

If Dimond had a fault, here, I think it's attitude and communication, not so much policy.

Do you think the difference between the "bro deal" and "full retail" would be 100%, and $600 in nominal terms?
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Re: Secondhand Dimond [Kay Serrar] [ In reply to ]
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Kay Serrar wrote:


Do you think the difference between the "bro deal" and "full retail" would be 100%, and $600 in nominal terms?


I think the industry would prefer that we refer to is as 50% discount off retail rather than a 100% markup from wholesale. :)

But sure. Going off the top of my head. I once drove off with my Garmin on my roof a couple months after buying one. LBS I bought it from gave me one for 50% off. Typical crash replacement cost is in the neighborhood of 50% off (for original owners only)

$1200 is a shit-ton of money for a fork. But we're talking about a very significant piece of a $6000 frameset. It's proportionally in line. If you want to value shop, boutique high-end brands aren't exactly the place to do it.
Last edited by: trail: Apr 28, 17 9:34
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Re: Secondhand Dimond [trail] [ In reply to ]
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trail wrote:
Kay Serrar wrote:


Do you think the difference between the "bro deal" and "full retail" would be 100%, and $600 in nominal terms?


I think the industry would prefer that we refer to is as 50% discount off retail rather than a 100% markup from wholesale. :)

But sure. Going off the top of my head. I once drove off with my Garmin on my roof a couple months after buying one. LBS I bought it from gave me one for 50% off. Typical crash replacement cost is in the neighborhood of 50% off (for original owners only)

$1200 is a shit-ton of money for a fork. But we're talking about a very significant piece of a $6000 frameset. It's proportionally in line. If you want to value shop, boutique high-end brands aren't exactly the place to do it.

I have heard of Garmin crash replacing a lot of devices, including my own. I've never heard of the original owner stipulation with them.
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Re: Secondhand Dimond [getbarreled] [ In reply to ]
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getbarreled wrote:


I have heard of Garmin crash replacing a lot of devices, including my own. I've never heard of the original owner stipulation with them.


Garmin has no "lost-my-Garmin-replacement." at all. :) This was done by the LBS itself. Brought my new Garmin to the counter, owner who'd overheard my story, walked over, hit a button, and the price dropped 50%.


But since we're talking about bikes, mostly, and Cervelo was mentioned, here's the language on Cervelo's warranty section:

Quote:

Starting January 1, 2004, each Cervélo Cycles Inc. (Cervélo) bicycle frame purchased after this date is warranted by Cervélo Cycles Inc. against defects in workmanship and materials for as long as the frame is owned by the original owner, excluding paint and decals.



That's pretty clear. Warranty totally voided on first re-sale. But you have more of an owner error issue. This is how Cervelo deals with owner error (by any owner):

Quote:
Cervélo does not warrant against damage caused by normal wear and tear, improper assembly, improper maintenance, or installation of parts or accessories not originally intended for use with or compatible with the frame or bicycle sold.


So no Cervelo owner has any recourse as a matter of corporate policy if they jack up their own steerer tube. But, back to my Garmin story. I'd bet, if you just took delivery of a new Cervelo and jacked up your steerer tube, and told the LBS, the LBS would get on the phone with Cervelo and things might get worked out for you in your favor.

But if you brought in a used Cervelo, there'd be likely zero chance of things getting worked out for you. You'd be paying full retail for a new fork.
Last edited by: trail: Apr 28, 17 10:01
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Re: Secondhand Dimond [getbarreled] [ In reply to ]
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getbarreled wrote:
Why won't my picture attachment show up?

In the basic editor, you need to use the "upload attachment" section below, and check the box for "inline."

In the advanced editor, you can click on the little image icon, then choose "file" and upload it (it will automatically show up inline). 250kb size limit tho.


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Re: Secondhand Dimond [Rappstar] [ In reply to ]
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Rappstar wrote:
getbarreled wrote:
Why won't my picture attachment show up?

In the basic editor, you need to use the "upload attachment" section below, and check the box for "inline."

In the advanced editor, you can click on the little image icon, then choose "file" and upload it (it will automatically show up inline). 250kb size limit tho.

Thanks dude! Pretty sure I did all that but I think my file sizes were probably way too big.

On a sidenote: you getting any sleep? Shits got to be pretty freaking stressful right now.
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Re: Secondhand Dimond [SBRcoffee] [ In reply to ]
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SBRcoffee wrote:
Justlevy wrote:
Thanks for sharing. After learning of their customer service practices I wouldn't buy new or used after reading that. I prefer working with companies that have excellent customer service policies like Zappos, Amazon, Nordstrom, etc..

-j

You never want to deal with Dimond, so you mention a bunch of online department stores you like instead? What do they have to do with bike warranty service?? Not many bike companies out there offer Amazon Prime service...
Cervelo, Trek, Specialized, etc Good luck getting any special warranty service/pricing from them for second hand owners.

Dude, you missed my point by a mile here. I understand that a high-end boutique bike brand or probably any bike brand can't just throw money around willy-nilly like amazon can. Getting back to what my point has been from the very beginning is that attitude is everything and these major retailers have done a lot to impress that on the population in general. People value the feeling that the person on the other end of the line actually cares, and it's really not that hard to make people feel that way. Regardless of the fact that, as it's been pointed out, many states require that the original verbal price quoted is the price that is ultimately given, the big issue here is the shitty attitude about their own mistake.
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Re: Secondhand Dimond [trail] [ In reply to ]
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trail wrote:
getbarreled wrote:


I have heard of Garmin crash replacing a lot of devices, including my own. I've never heard of the original owner stipulation with them.


Garmin has no "lost-my-Garmin-replacement." at all. :) This was done by the LBS itself. Brought my new Garmin to the counter, owner who'd overheard my story, walked over, hit a button, and the price dropped 50%.


I don't disagree with your other points and I think we've exhausted the whole thing at this point. Just curious about your comment on the Garmin thing.
You know Garmin offers crash replacements and even some lost device replacements, right?
Last edited by: getbarreled: Apr 28, 17 10:55
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Re: Secondhand Dimond [getbarreled] [ In reply to ]
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In response to the "Dimond Mafia" or whatever you want to call them, claiming the they have an awesome warranty. I think it is interesting, that they only have a 6y warranty on their frames, where most companies like Trek/Diamonback/Cervelo/etc.. provide lifetime warranties for their frames (forks/full suspension bikes not included), so most Tri bikes have lifetime warranty on the frames where they only cover 6years. To me that hints at the fact they expect you to have to replace your frame after 6years, and not to be able to use it for as long as you want to.

Yes these warranties are all to original owner.
Last edited by: tyme: Apr 28, 17 14:16
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Re: Secondhand Dimond [tyme] [ In reply to ]
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tyme wrote:
In response to the "Dimond Mafia" or whatever you want to call them, claiming the they have an awesome warranty. I think it is interesting, that they only have a 6y warranty on their frames, where most companies like Trek/Diamonback/Cervelo/etc.. provide lifetime warranties for their frames (forks/full suspension bikes not included), so most Tri bikes have lifetime warranty on the frames where they only cover 6years. To me that hints at the fact they expect you to have to replace your frame after 6years, and not to be able to use it for as long as you want to.

Yes these warranties are all to original owner.


OR...it's because they, Dimond, does not have the resources, money and leverage that the other brands do and they are attempting to limit their liability and losses. Personally, the warranty should be built into the price of the product which is typical and would argue given the price point for a Dimond they should be offering a better warranty, but perhaps they can't afford to?
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Re: Secondhand Dimond [tyme] [ In reply to ]
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Agree, just reading this makes me shake my head:
https://www.dimondbikes.com/warranty-and-returns/

...Bicycle frames do not last forever...

i wonder how many frames they sold so far, clearly the percentage of frames with issues is much higher than someone who pays that much money should expect (accept).
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Re: Secondhand Dimond [tyme] [ In reply to ]
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tyme wrote:
In response to the "Dimond Mafia" or whatever you want to call them, claiming the they have an awesome warranty. I think it is interesting, that they only have a 6y warranty on their frames, where most companies like Trek/Diamonback/Cervelo/etc.. provide lifetime warranties for their frames (forks/full suspension bikes not included), so most Tri bikes have lifetime warranty on the frames where they only cover 6years. To me that hints at the fact they expect you to have to replace your frame after 6years, and not to be able to use it for as long as you want to.

Yes these warranties are all to original owner.


From a recent comment in a thread on Facebook about all this.

"TJ's Ruster Sports Armored Hen House bike bag customer service needs lessons too. Here's a pic of my bike bag and the seams coming apart after approximately 5-6 flights with it. There is a 2" hole in the bag where the seams split. In spite of Ruster Sports well advertised 10yr warranty, TJ specifically let me know the seams coming apart defect is considered normal wear and tear (in 5-6 uses) and not covered by his warranty. He also added that his Ruster Sports bags are made of the highest quality. Wow?! Seriously?! I have an email to prove this. Lastly he offered $50 towards another new Ruster Sports Bag! Why not use that $50 to ship and fix my bike bag?"
https://ibb.co/kGbG5k
Last edited by: getbarreled: Apr 28, 17 15:24
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Re: Secondhand Dimond [bikecritic] [ In reply to ]
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bikecritic wrote:
Agree, just reading this makes me shake my head:
https://www.dimondbikes.com/warranty-and-returns/

...Bicycle frames do not last forever...

i wonder how many frames they sold so far, clearly the percentage of frames with issues is much higher than someone who pays that much money should expect (accept).


Where is Alanis Morissette when you need her. But seriously the policy looks pretty similar to many others. I know I was annoyed when my Trek SC stem cracked on me after a year. At $200+ I was not super thrilled but sure enough when I look back it was just the frame that was covered by Lifetime. And even Lifetime I believe has some limit of something like 10 years but I could be wrong.


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Last edited by: Thomas Gerlach: Apr 28, 17 15:46
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Re: Secondhand Dimond [getbarreled] [ In reply to ]
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getbarreled wrote:
You know Garmin offers crash replacements and even some lost device replacements, right?

I've heard about $99 replacements if you send in one damaged from a crash. I haven't heard of getting a replacement or $99 deal for a lost one. That seems like it'd be difficult from Garmin's perspective. E.g. distinguishing between people who really lost them from people "losing" them to get a 2-for-1 deal.
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Re: Secondhand Dimond [getbarreled] [ In reply to ]
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I just had my Thule tore up by American Airlines.....ughhhh.

Honestly, any respectable company will back their product from defect no matter who owns it. Buck knives replaced a broken blade and handle on a 200$ knife that I found in the desert.....free of charge. Horton Crossbows sent me a scope for a crossbow that I had purchased second hand......no questions asked....free of charge. Ogio sent me a new transition bag when my straps started tearing..... I can go on. I will remain faithful to all of these companies because of their excellent customer service.

I don't think companies always have to do things free especially in this case. But the fact remains that when you do your best to accommodate customers (even if the aren't direct). You gain trust, faithfulness to your brand and word of mouth advertising.
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Re: Secondhand Dimond [trail] [ In reply to ]
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 Actually, the only time I've heard of replacement for lost Garmins was in the context of them going missing during OWS of a race while on a quick release.
I wonder if they use GPS data to verify that.
I didn't know you were speaking specifically to lost items only. Thought you were speaking more generally.
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Re: Secondhand Dimond [sharkbaitguy] [ In reply to ]
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sharkbaitguy wrote:
OR...it's because they, Dimond, does not have the resources, money and leverage that the other brands do and they are attempting to limit their liability and losses. Personally, the warranty should be built into the price of the product which is typical and would argue given the price point for a Dimond they should be offering a better warranty, but perhaps they can't afford to?

Great point. And exactly why a brand like this shouldn't be considered in the same breath as brands like Cervelo, Trek, Specialized, etc. If they don't have the resources to provide competitive warranties (or customer service for that matter), why even consider them in the first place? Especially when they command similar or higher prices at retail.

"One Line Robert"
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Re: Secondhand Dimond [getbarreled] [ In reply to ]
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Sort of difficult to use GPS to verify that when the device is on the bottom of the lake....
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Re: Secondhand Dimond [PoorLBSEmployee] [ In reply to ]
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Haha I'm dumb! I didn't think about that it would have never uploaded.
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Re: Secondhand Dimond [wsrobert] [ In reply to ]
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wsrobert wrote:
sharkbaitguy wrote:
OR...it's because they, Dimond, does not have the resources, money and leverage that the other brands do and they are attempting to limit their liability and losses. Personally, the warranty should be built into the price of the product which is typical and would argue given the price point for a Dimond they should be offering a better warranty, but perhaps they can't afford to?


Great point. And exactly why a brand like this shouldn't be considered in the same breath as brands like Cervelo, Trek, Specialized, etc. If they don't have the resources to provide competitive warranties (or customer service for that matter), why even consider them in the first place? Especially when they command similar or higher prices at retail.

OK, gonna counter this one. If that makes me 'mafia', OK....
I think it is really important to consider what those 'lifetime' warranties cover. They cover manufacturing defects. Fact is, if there is a 'defect' in your frame that is gonna cause a failure/crack/whatever, its gonna show before 6 years!
I know I know, everyone has a story of a guy they know who got a free bike after xxx years, etc. But seriously, how long do most of us keep these bikes before replacing them, and how often have you had a 5+ year old frame and had it completely replaced for free under a warranty?
I'd been riding a trek SC for the past 4 years, awesome bike, but not without issues. Broke two of the expensive integrated stems (they cracked), first one wasn't covered because over a year old, second one that I bought was covered because it broke in 8 months. Some other issues related to the frame too, none of which are being covered under warranty.
I've always believed that 'lifetime warranty' is just a marketing gimmick, its not realistic.

I guess we are getting off topic. For the record, I believe the OP had a legitimate issue that could have been handled better, thats all. He's moved on and everyone is happy. I've offered to let him test ride my bike if he dares show his face at IMMT.... ;)
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Re: Secondhand Dimond [The GMAN] [ In reply to ]
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Having the bike out on the road (and perhaps riding it fast) sure does improve the sales number for Dimond. Assuming that the exchange went down the way it did, Dimond probably lost some revenue in the long riun.

Next races on the schedule: NYC Marathon 2017, Desert Tri Oly 2018,Oceanside 2018, Santa Rosa full 2018
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Re: Secondhand Dimond [wsrobert] [ In reply to ]
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wsrobert wrote:
sharkbaitguy wrote:
OR...it's because they, Dimond, does not have the resources, money and leverage that the other brands do and they are attempting to limit their liability and losses. Personally, the warranty should be built into the price of the product which is typical and would argue given the price point for a Dimond they should be offering a better warranty, but perhaps they can't afford to?


Great point. And exactly why a brand like this shouldn't be considered in the same breath as brands like Cervelo, Trek, Specialized, etc. If they don't have the resources to provide competitive warranties (or customer service for that matter), why even consider them in the first place? Especially when they command similar or higher prices at retail.

Do those other brand warranty for second, third, fourth hand customers?

Also, I had more trouble getting my Scott warrantied than my Dimond, they were impossible to get hold of quickly or return calls or emails. I have seen issues with Felt's (shitty bayonet forks), Trek (rear brake), Cervelo's (creaky BB) that too way longer than my single 2 minute phone call to Dimond and some were not fixed at all. I don't think the bigger companies are small enough to deal individually with people, which I understand, I think they lack the resources. Not vice versa.

I agree in that i think a warranty is a warranty, regardless of owner. I am not sure why they aren't but am also not sure that 'original owner' is not part of most brand warranties. A bike is slightly different to a knife handle I guess.

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Re: Secondhand Dimond [SBRcoffee] [ In reply to ]
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SBRcoffee wrote:
If that makes me 'mafia', OK....

You were Mafia Platinum Status long before this post. :)
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Re: Secondhand Dimond [SBRcoffee] [ In reply to ]
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SBRcoffee wrote:
[
OK, gonna counter this one. If that makes me 'mafia', OK....

I wouldn't worry too much. Any product that is a change to the norm is bound to have a bunch of people that rail against it because it's different to what they have. The only ones I really listen to are those that have had one. If they didn't like it then there is a worthy discussion. I've had that discussion with a couple, and to the letter they all had valid reasons why they didn't get on with the bike. The predominant reasons being a) quality control and b) an unwillingness, which is totally ok, not to spend a little time getting it right. Most small companies I have dealt with benefit from being small and accessible but suffer from things needing a bit of work every now and again. Those who are willing to spend a little time getting things dialled or get a spot on bike straight away (the majority it has to be said) end up with a really, really good riding experience.

I think the overwhelming evidence from those who actually ride them are that they love them and that they get decent results aboard them.

If mafia is someone enthusiastic about a product they own, what do we call someone enthusiastically disliking a product they don't even have or are being asked to use. Doesn't seem like energy well spent to be honest.

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