"A real shame as the company really pushed natural running into the mainstream."

i don't know anything about the goings-on at newton, but, if there is one theme that is taking over running right now it is forefoot cushion. nike's zoom vaporfly is a rewarmed sock racer / air mariah pulled out of the closet, and it's a darned good idea. hoka's revolution was not just cushion, but forefoot cushion. same with saucony's kinvara and a lot of other very popular shoes.

this is 100 percent contrary to what i understand danny abshire's thesis to be. abshire's firm belief - pardon the pun - is that the proprioceptive value of the contact with the ground required that foam and cushion not be there in the forefoot of the shoe. a lot of people (me among them) thought this was not tenable. whether he was right or wrong we'll know in the end i suspect but as of now the market has moved more toward the forefoot cushion theme.

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Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

The newton running model also advocated the natural placement of the foot within a running shoe which is anything from 0-5mm I understand.

Correct me if I'm wrong but wasn't newton one of the first companies to really push this concept and run naturally.

Don't most companies now have a take on this theme.

"Correct me if I'm wrong but wasn't newton one of the first companies to really push this concept and run naturally."

it depends on what you mean by "run naturally". if you mean your forefoot strike should occur just below the knee, and the midfoot is the place where the strike occurs or is most important, i coached this 35 years before newton was ever a company, and i learned it from others much older than i.

i began running in a shoe called a tiger marathon.



pretty low drop.

that said, what i do credit newton for is helping break the hegemony of brooks, asics, saucony, NB, et al, and making it possible for new shoe companies to come along and change the way shoes had been made for a generation.

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Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

Fair point - I suppose it would more fitting that they were responsible for 'reminding' people of the concept?

they were certainly a pivotal company. when you look at everything that's come along to disrupt the shoe market - hoka, skechers, altra, on running and so forth - i think a little bit of newton is in all of them, even if it's just the knowledge that you can get shoes on the shelf and move other, larger brands off the shelf. and, yes, they very much helped break the notion that shoes should have 12mm and more of drop.

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Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

In my experience, the old four lug Newton shoes had a bunch of cushioning in the forefoot. I'd still be running in them if they hadn't dialed that back to make a bunch of shoes that performed like every other shoe on the shelf, just a lot more expensive.

Interesting.

Danny and his wife Jennifer seem good people, I hope it all works out for them.

Newton really didn't push natural running into the mainstream. Born to Run pushed natural running into the mainstream. And really, it was Tony Post over at Vibram that truly capitalized on it, turning the positioning of the KSO into a running model, and then launching the Bikele.

Newton caught alongside that wave as the "shod" version of things, although it was deemed inferior for not having the whole separated toe thing. But, I'm digressing.

Really, Newton truly "caught fire" after Saucony put out the Kinvara. Having a mainstream manufacturer come along with the low offset, light weight story, validated a lot of the work that Newton had put into the Gravity, Motion, and Distance line-up.

Newton's downfall is two fold, really - #1 Hoka completely disrupting the marketplace after they were acquired by Deckers, and #2 way overextending the line-up beyond the core competencies.

I say this in every thread about Newton: they were always going five lug. Always, always, always. The original shoes were supposed to be five lug, but the factory they were in couldn't build them to that tolerance. So they swapped 'em out. Would Newton have ever been that popular if the original design worked its way into the marketplace in 2007? Who knows.

They just tried to go too mainstream too quickly without having enough funding to really make it work. I still think there's a place in the market for a line-up of:

Gravity
Motion
Distance
Kismet
Fate
Boco

That line-up doesn't have significant overlap in it, and because most of those shoes are built off of two lasts, reduces cost expenditures. That would help keep them around...for whoever decides to sink some money into it.

Interestingly, Newton first tried to sell their IP to Saucony before launching their own line-up. It might make more sense for a different brand to acquire the IP and bring some of it into their product line. Or, alternatively, I could also see one of the larger store chains deciding to acquire them as a house brand (similar to the exclusive distribution agreement that Karhu just signed with Fleet Feet).

TL:DR - Newton got lucky to ride a wave in 2007-2010, but made significant missteps in 2011-2013 that have led them to where they are now.

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Editor-in-Chief, Slowtwitch.com | Twitter

Interesting thanks for the info and I agree with you ref the five lungs.

Yea, and they jacked up the "acceptable" price of a running shoe to well over $100.

Poop on them for doing that...(says the guy who probably bought 15 pairs over the period of 5-6 years)

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"Good genes are not a requirement, just the obsession to beat ones brains out daily"...the Griz

When I started in the industry in 2005, the average transaction price was...$100.

In 2007, when Newton came to market, it was...$100.

When I moved to Maine in 2009, it was...$100.

The average transaction cost started edging upward in 2009, progressing to $110, and then finally edging to the $120 mark we have now.

Newton didn't do that. The mainstream models like the Brooks Adrenaline, Saucony Guide, Asics GT-2000, etc. did that.

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Editor-in-Chief, Slowtwitch.com | Twitter

Makes sense. I bought my first pair of Newtons in 2009...$150+ bucks, if i remember correctly.

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"Good genes are not a requirement, just the obsession to beat ones brains out daily"...the Griz

I just ordered my first pair of Newtons a few weeks ago and followed their sizing chart that said I needed the same size as Hoka. They are at least a full size smaller. Contacted them immediately for a return authorization and have followed up with multiple emails over the past three weeks and a phone call yesterday, all of which have gone unanswered. WTF?

From what I've heard, they recently laid off roughly half the staff in Boulder....they're down to something like 10 people there.

Call your CC company, send them the emails, and charge it back. That's unacceptable regardless. If they are still in business they better do good business... especially after racking up profits for so long at super expensive shoes for what they are.

Just called them again and there was no answer and their voicemail is full. Guess I'll be charging these back!

I think a lot of people bought a pair, maybe two. After they got injured or got fed up with the chronic achilles or calf injuries, they moved on. I wouldn't be surprised if a large percentage of Hoka users were former Newtonians.

I thin a $20 uptick for a $100 shoe over 10 years is normal inflation. Thats what you can and should expect for all shoes.

I do recall that the first few runs of the Newtons back <2010 were $170+ when the more typical shoe price was $85 at the time for a top-of-the-line running sneaker.

Newton got lucky to ride a wave in 2007-2010, but made significant missteps in 2011-2013 that have led them to where they are now.


Newton got some early traction and action, by going big and deep in triathlon. However, this can come back to haunt a brand, and I think this is part of the reason that Newton has struggled.

1) Tell a triathletes that something, anything will make them 5% - 10% better/faster, and you immediately have their ear and are well on your way to a sale.

2) When Newton launched, triathlon in North America was at peak growth

Fast forward to just a few years ago and Newton seems to have made a number of attempts to go beyond being a "tri-brand", but the specialty run market while much much bigger than triathlon it is VERY hard to break into, and can take A LOT of work, effort and resources. Also being known, even if it's just a perception, as a tri-brand, can act as a bit of an anchor for you in the single sport markets.

And now the running shoe business is very crowded with not just the main stays (Asics, NB et al ), but all these other players Hoka etc . . Now Newton's challenge has become even bigger.

And I'm not even going to go to the actual technology of the shoe

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Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog

The "top-end" market was at $130 for a Gel Nimbus 9. Mid-level shoes were between $90-$100.

Most increases over the 2008-2011 period were due to oil.

Fleck...in the US, at least, Newton sure had additional exposure in triathlon. But to say that it was banking on tri I think it an underrepresentation of how they did in specialty run through about 2011 and the Kinvara.

They then made the mistake of looking to massively expand their door count, and wound up in a lot of stores they probably shouldn't have, which wound up leading to a lot of discounted product that didn't sell and a lack of inventory for dealers who sold through their initial B-level futures orders.

The fatal mistake, IMO, was trying to pay for all the new tooling of the 5-lug shoes, pay for their Boston Marathon activation, and the Ironman sponsorship, all while sell-through had deteriorated at retail due to overexpansion of doors, depressing futures orders.

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Editor-in-Chief, Slowtwitch.com | Twitter

I had been writing/calling for a couple weeks to try to find out when Distance Elites would be back in stock in size 11 (or nearly any of their shoes in size 11). I finally heard back a couple weeks after my first email and was told the person answering is the only one in the department right now and wasn't sure about timing. He did mention they are waiting on a shipment of Distance VI, but again, no specifics on timing. I imagine they will get back to you...eventually...

What I can tell is that they have moved into an office on Pearl St. & Foothills Parkway. It is actually right next store to UPS, about a block from the Ironman Boulder pathway that crosses under the FP. That would be the WEST side of the highway. The sign above the door says Newton, there is a lot of junk crammed up against the windows on the side of the building. It looks like a "downsized" outpost of their downtown Boulder facility. Maybe rent got too high & there was too much room for 10 people.

This would be right across from the new LaSportiva Retail Store (which is where I was when I discovered the Newton facility).

I've been running in Distance for 6-7 years and love them, but they are getting harder and harder to find. I've tried Hoka Clifton and Tracers but the toe box gives me fits (and blisters more importantly).

For those that have transitioned out of Distance...what brand/model have you gone to?

Zappos has the gravity 6 and the distance 6 both men and women. Kinda weird they have them before the actual Newton website, but....... get em where you can get em!

Through a team sponsorship I have tried Salming. I am really impressed with the quality and the roomy toe box really feels great and not clunky as I expected. I am loving them!

I'm in the same boat. I've been in Newton's since 2008. I haven't found another shoe which doesn't leave me injured in some way. I'm sweating this big time. Tried Mizuno Wave, Saucony Kinvara and most recently Hoka Cliftons but I always return to my Newton mistress.

This. I am a Gravity/Distance wearer and use the MV3's for short racing, and if Newton's going away, I would love an alternative that's similar.

I already posted on the other 'newton 2017' thread about the difficult times they are going through and they are. As the OP posted it seems like even the Abshire's left the company and Jerry Lee and Wendy Lee are in control. That said if you go to the Australian webpage of the distributor there they seem to have the 2017 models in stock. Funny and weird that they have it before the US but apparently they have them there.

https://www.wildfiresports.com.au/brand/newton-running/

I don't know how about the cost of shipping but for the die hards they can be ordered 😉

Jeroen
Tri-Run.com

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Owner at TRIPRO, The Netherlands

I just purchased the Gravity VI from Zappos. The new model is even better than the other 10+ Newtons I have run in and the new red and white colors are great.

I for one hope the company survives. I swear by the Gravity

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TEAM ZOOT 2020

I'm also transitioning out of the Distance (due to combination of high price and limited availability in Australia) and I'm currently trying out Altra Instinct. Happy so far.

All3Sports has the 2017 Newton models in stock.

How do you like your Salming's? I ordered the EnRoute a few days ago before i was able to get a hold of Gravity VI's.

Actually, I had one pair and after a few runs I bought another! One black; one orange. I love the fit and they actually seem to help my mechanics, as it feels as though they encourage me to run more efficiently and with less effort. I hope you have as good an experience as I have so far. I'm pretty certain I'll try out the Speed or race or even both. Hopefully they will appear in more stores so it's easier to try them.

Think about proximity to China and you'll understand why stuff got to AUS first.

Chinese New Year being early this year screwed a lot of timelines up.

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Editor-in-Chief, Slowtwitch.com | Twitter

True, but nevertheless weird that a licensed distributor, not Newton Running herself, gets the shoes first and there is no announcement whatsoever that they will appear shortly in the US. Given that I have some more information on this I think the Aussies just paid a certain amount of money to the factory and get their 'share' of shoes. In know some other distributors are trying to do the same. And you can't blame the factory for releasing some of those shoes if they get paid for it. If Newton Running doesn't survive, which I do hope they will do, at least they factory got some of their money back.

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Owner at TRIPRO, The Netherlands

Ugh...I really love Newtons after running in Asics, Hokas, and Altra. It would be a shame to see a company so focused on revolutionizing running go south. It did strike me as a bit of overreach for a company that small to be such a big sponsor....and then seeing the IM run courses and former Newton sponsored athletes like TO being taken over by Hoka was a sign things may not be so rosy. Hope they make it.

I just recently switched from the Motion to Kinvara and from the Distance to the Fastwitch 8. I found that the price of Newtons is just too expensive and the lugs were putting too much stress on my calves leading to some issues.

Both the shoes still feature 4mm drop so there is a little more heel than the Newtons but forefoot in the Kinvara's feels a little better.

It did strike me as a bit of overreach for a company that small to be such a big sponsor


What do you mean?

Their only bigger sponsorship were in triathlon. Craig Alexander being their marquee athlete. Now, Crowie might command a decent amount of money ( but in the grand scheme of these sorts of things it's still small money), but in triathlon it drops of precipitously from there, to free gear and maybe a bit of a $ bonus if you do well at IM Hawaii.

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Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog

Fleck...in 2012 and 2013, they had one of the larger booths at the Boston expo and sizable collateral developed. Trust me when I say...that was not. cheap.

That said, the number I've heard tossed around with regard to Newton was $500K for Ironman sponsorship. I would be inclined to think it was smaller than that, but there was also a sizable product investment there.

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Editor-in-Chief, Slowtwitch.com | Twitter

I've been running in Distance for about 4 years and moved to NB 1400. I loved the Distance but kept getting injured.

the NB 1400 feel great - they do have a higher drop at 10mm but they don't feel like they do. They are super light and responsive but actually have a decent amount of cushion.

Fleck...in 2012 and 2013, they had one of the larger booths at the Boston expo and sizable collateral developed. Trust me when I say...that was not. cheap.

That said, the number I've heard tossed around with regard to Newton was $500K for Ironman sponsorship. I would be inclined to think it was smaller than that, but there was also a sizable product investment there.

Ryan,

Yes - the Expo thing can be expensive. I know - I've done it with some of the brands I've worked with. The actual booth space costs are often the least of your concerns! Hotel, meals, travel for the team and then the shipping of the booth and other stuff can really add up quickly.

When I was with Sugoi back in the late 1990's we did the BIG-5 Marathon (Boston, NYC, Chicago, LA & San Diego) Expos for two years when we launched the run line. We also were doing Interbike, both Outdoor Retailer shows and one other Sports Industry show on the trade side of things. There was a guy who I worked with at Sugoi at the time, his full-time job was just coordinating all the stuff related the the Expos and Trade-Shows - in particular, all the shipping and setting up and tearing down of the booth and all the apparel needed, staff travel etc . . !

That number for an Ironman sponsorship sounds high - but that's just a feeling I have. At some point they seemed to be getting good traction and action in the triathlon market, but as you well know, that's small beer, in the grand scheme of things in the whole of the specialty run business.

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Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog

Same issues that I ran into. As soon as I switched to Kinvaras my calf issues went away. Plus fuck $175 per pair.

I've got a spare pair of Gravity IV sitting unused. The ones I'm in now are about the best road running shoes I think I've ever had. I had 2 pairs of Fate as well, but slowly moved away from those and they seem very heavy now, somehow. I'd be sad to see them disappear, but they're a real hassle to get hold of in NZ and, like all other running shoes in this country, ridiculously overpriced.

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Dan has a piece on Newton on the Slowtwitch front page.

yea thanks I saw that this afternoon - its a good piece, glad to see things maybe on up for them again