This brought a tear to my eye. In 2016 I suffered from depression for first time in my life at age 50. It was associated with a few loses but otherwise my life was great. Great son great daughter great wife good income etc. Medication takes time to work. Probably two weeks to see some effect 4-6 weeks to see full effect. Girls do cutting to cope with anxiety. It's possible they could do something more serious but for the vast majority it is a coping mechanism albeit one that seems so dysfunctional. There is an epidemic of girls right now that feel they have to be perfect. It is very stressful for them. Let her know and show her that you love her not for what she does but for who she is although it sounds like you are doing that already. Its tough.

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They constantly try to escape from the darkness outside and within
Dreaming of systems so perfect that no one will need to be good T.S. Eliot

I just did a quick google to confirm that there can sometimes be a link with hypothyroidism. Have you had her checked for this? I remember reading about it years ago.

It sounds like you're taking the right approach with psychotherapy and anti depressants. The suicide precaution is a genuine scare, but realize that a much higher % of people threaten suicide than actually do it and among those who try, most are not successful, particularly among teenage girls. Not that this is re-assuring, but be aware of it.

It sounds like it is something that can be cured. Lots of teenagers go through rough spells. I remember I had a dark time when I was fifteen and had depression with suicidal thoughts, although never even tried to carry them through. I realize now something was not right, but back then it was never diagnosed. Fortunately it seemed to eventually cure itself.

I'd talk to your family doctor about getting her thyroid hormone levels checked out if this hasn't been done already. Sounds like its something at least worth looking into.

I also have two daughters, ages 17 & 15. My eldest has strange bouts with anxiety and borderline depression. She's not an overachiever, a solid student, good athlete, has a job and is preparing to go to a university next year and she has the same sort of 'mental downtime' issue then gets really depressed.

Meds haven't been prescribed so I have no experience with them, but I will say the only thing that snaps her out of these moments are getting out into nature. We have a sailboat and we will take her our on the boat with or without friends for a few days of fun and she is great once she's out of her normal rhythm and out in nature. It's really strange, actually. The effect used to last for a few weeks, now it lasts for a few months.

Other than my deepest sympathies, I can only offer this suggestion to you so she can find time outside of her normal routine and fill her mental down time with the outdoors. 15 can be a horrible age for girls and diet / sleep patterns can also make a big difference.

i sent you a pm.

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who's smarter than you're? i'm!

Good idea. I will definitely get this looked at.

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"The great pleasure in life is doing what people say you cannot do."

Is there an anxiety component to it? Depression and anxiety are often found together.

It might be useful for her to try yoga or meditation as a way to calm those thoughts and have some space from them. Journaling is a helpful thing too.

Have you tried any alternative therapies? Acupuncture? A massage?
I'd switch the message to "we WILL get through this and you WILL feel happy again."

Do you have pets? Research shows pets help.

Jenny Lawson has a good book called "Furiously Happy" that is about dealing with depression and anxiety. It is very funny. When I have felt anxious and or depressed (though I have not been as severely depressed as your daughter), humor helps. Laughter generates endorphins, which are those happy feel good chemicals.

don't be afraid to try different meds.

Many hugs; please keep us updated. Also, remember to take care of you, too.

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maybe she's born with it, maybe it's chlorine
If you're injured and need some sympathy, PM me and I'm very happy to write back.
disclaimer: PhD not MD

I'm really sorry to hear about this.

I've fought depression since I was right around that age, first planned suicide at age 14. It wasn't something discussed in my family and it was looked at shamefully, so I never had the opportunity to get help until I was at university.

At her age, I don't have great advice. My issues stem from abuse and the need to "prove myself" and show that I'm worthy, always resulting in achievement and hiding my issues, always appearing to be the spot of sun in the room. It's taken me 15 years of therapy to move beyond that. I say that to make the point that it's not uncommon in achievers. It's good that you're not dismissive based on that. I needed people in my corner, wished I had my parents there, so it's admirable that you're there for her and taking it seriously. I guess one thing I think a parent can do is help their kids understand who their real friends are through this; the right or wrong friends speaking the right or wrong message can make all the difference in either direction.

The one piece of practical advice I'd give is to monitor the medication closely. I should be on something but have only had bad medication experiences so I've given up on that piece. The first thing I tried -- Effexor -- just made things far, far worse and increased suicidal ideations in a frightening way. Others weren't as bad in that area, but were still ineffective. Please keep close tabs on that and have conversations about how it's effecting her so you're able to take action before the next doc appointment if necessary.

Real good ideas. Thanks.

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"The great pleasure in life is doing what people say you cannot do."

Thanks for sharing your story. We spoke with our daughter for about an hour last night trying to understand what we could do to help. I suffered from depression almost 30 years ago but I knew why I was depressed,. Therapy + medicine got me through it. She starts therapy with a group of teens similar to herself this week. Maybe being able to relate will alleviate some of her pain.

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"The great pleasure in life is doing what people say you cannot do."

I was diagnosed with dysthymia. I never even thought of myself as being depressed. I was seeing a psychiatrist for ADHD and the dysthymia diagnosis took me by surprise. When I reflected on my answers to my psychiatrist's questions I understood why he diagnosed depression and even agree with it. The bad news is that there really is no cure to psychiatric conditions (bipolar, depression, anxiety, schizophrenia, etc.). You don't really cure them, you only manage them. The good news is that they can be managed. Did your daughter's psychiatrist say why they are worried about suicide? Antidepressants, especially SSRIs, can increase risk of suicide in young people. It could be that her shrink is afraid of drug side effects rather than worsening depression. Antidepressants are very tricky to prescribe; a lot of people who conclude that they don't help just haven't found the right medication(s) and dosage. Hang in there, I hope your daughter feels better!

I can't being to imagine how you feel, but I'm sure everyone here including myself have you in out thoughts and intentions. Possibly changing some things up from the normal weekend schedule, different family activities, or mother daughter time, father daughter time, camping, something new?

I'd seek out a second, third and fourth opinion. I'm sure you've done an extensive search online.

Wishing and hoping for the best for you, your daughter and family.

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#WeAreTheForge #BlackGunsMatter

"Look, will you guys at leats accept that you are a bunch of dumb asses and just trust me on this one? Please?" BarryP 7/30/2012

My daughter told her psychiatrist that she is in so much pain she doesn't want to live. That's how we found out how bad she was feeling. From the "outside" you just never would have guessed she was so miserable. She's on Celexa which is an SSRI. Her dosage just got upped this week so we're hoping for some improvement. Did your diagnosis provide you with a better way to manage your depression?

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"The great pleasure in life is doing what people say you cannot do."

I know that feeling. The pain isn't only mental, it becomes a physical pain all over your body, it eats at you like a parasite. I am better, but I will never be "cured". I can only hope to manage my feelings.

I've been on Celexa for about 4 years. I'm on the max dosage and take Abilify to help. It takes about 3-4 weeks for the effects of the meds to take affect. I kept telling my therapist things weren't helping, but he assured me to wait it out.

I cannot even imagine how you feel, but I do know exactly how she feels.

Best of luck.

Nova

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"When the power of love overcomes the love of power the world will know peace." Jimi Hendrix

People with dysthymia tend to be high functioning. They generally meet their responsibilities and outwardly seem OK but inside they get little or no joy from life. I've been taking bupropion XL (generic Welbutrin) which has helped me a lot. I have more energy, life seems less pointless and I've been a better father, husband and employee since I started taking it. At first I had almost no appetite and I lost weight but unfortunately for me that effect was only temporary and I gained the weight back. Unfortunately Welbutrin/bupropion can exacerbate anxieties. It may not be a good choice if your daughter is anxious. Bupropion increased my libido (most antidepressants have the opposite effect) which might not be a good side effect for teenagers ;)

Meds - there is so much out there. Celexa is pretty old, lexapro is newer (but generic now) that appears to be "cleaner". However like many SSRI's cause weight gain, so for female at this age, could be not great. Wellbutrin, totally different type of med does not appear to do so. Make sure you have a top notch psychiastrist. Unfortunately it takes a few weeks to notice anything, but some cases it is clear that it isn't right. Zoloft on me was horrible. Cymbalta caused stomach issues. All cause dry mouth. Daughter was on effexor, and it was horrible, she was a top student that walked into class and said "whatever" about her homework at this advanced school. So watch things very carefully. Not used but a very good drug is serzone, had like 1/1000000 liver issue and didn't go anywhere. For me anyway, side effects null, this took 2 years of trial and error.

If you don't have a good dog, think of one if she is incllined,

I've had a very similar experience with my daughter and I'm so sorry you and your family are going through this. I firmly believe that the right medication helps reduce suicide ideation, but it is really hard to wait for the med to take effect. I would continue to assure your daughter that you will stay by her side until she finds a medication that works. I would also try to read up on the importance of validating a depressed person't feelings. You don't have to agree with her despair, but letting her know you are aware of how deeply she is suffering might help her. Would she be willing to leaving her bedroom door open? Hopefully the group therapy will be productive and validating for her. Please let us know how she is doing.

If you haven't already, try diet--eliminating meat, fish, poultry, and eggs:

http://nutritionfacts.org/...od-and-productivity/

I just want to echo everyone's well wishes in finding a solution to this terrible problem. The teen years truly suck for a lot of people and you should reassure your daughter that this will pass, you will absolutely find a solution, and things will get much, much better.

Okay . three things come to mind.
Get her to a pool/lake, swim classes, whatever.
Get an alcat done...have her blood tested for all food allergies( this can life changing)
magnesium spray .....call my wife if you want.pm me

also , a happy light.... they make a difference if you are in a cloud laden state like Michigan .

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sometimes

I am 100% convinced that in our suffering and pain the most helpful thing is uncovering the buried shame and not hiding the issue, no matter what it is. There's so much isolation when we suffer in silence. It takes courage to identify an issue and face it; when we do, we're given the opportunity to be with people who can relate and say "Me, too. I thought I was the only one." I believe that is the most healing thing for ourselves and others. The group therapy will likely be incredibly helpful for her. I hope that it brings healing.

Thank you all for your support and great ideas. We got her blood test done yesterday and are awaiting the results. Diet is definitely something we need to look at. SADs was also on my list as well because our winter was awful this year.

I sat down and had a talk about suicide with her. She said she had contemplated suicide but her concern was she didn't want to make a mess....Damn. I guess we should be grateful. I spoke with her about the consequences of suicide. That the people that love her and she loves would be hurt for a lifetime in ways she could not comprehend. I think that registered with her for the moment at least. I also suggested that we all keep journals of what's going on so when she beats the depression we can share what she/we went through with other kids and parents so they too have hope. I told her I was going to ask her everyday how she feels and I didn't want a BS answer. She said she'd be honest with me which I took as a win. Logically she knows she is not alone. Emotionally her despair is awful. I hope in a year from now I can write to tell you how all your suggestions helped save her life.

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"The great pleasure in life is doing what people say you cannot do."

That is very scary re her comments on suicide. I'm sure you've discussed this, but you might reiterate that at her age going through puberty etc., suicidal thoughts are not uncommon. I was, to all intents and purposes, a very happy child, but I still had a few suicidal thoughts as a teenager. I have talked to my 14 year old daughter about this already, hoping that it will help her to understand that a) if she has any suicidal thoughts then they are relatively normal at her age, so she shouldn't feel that she is too weird, and b) she will probably get through it and live a happy normal life, so don't act on those suicidal thoughts, and it's ok to talk about them.

It's sometime hard for kids to put things in perspective too. They often see their school work and making As as so monumentally important that it puts incredible pressure on them. It may help to explain to her that in 10, 15 or 30 years what grades she is getting now, or indeed any worries (issues with friends, boys, etc) she is having now will be completely insignificant to her life in the future.

Hopefully that helps. Best of luck!

I haven't read it, but this could help:

https://www.amazon.com/...-Teens/dp/0786885971

very heart-breaking to hear this - Our daughter has anxiety issues - compounded with speech fluency disfunction . . . she's now out of college and has great friends and job but it never completely goes away.

just wanted to check in and see how you and your family are doing. You don't have to reply, just know that we're thinking of you.

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maybe she's born with it, maybe it's chlorine
If you're injured and need some sympathy, PM me and I'm very happy to write back.
disclaimer: PhD not MD

Just thinking about this - how's it all going?

Thanks for asking. It's gone from bad to better. Drugs, therapy and sunshine have really helped. We had to swap one drug for another due to side effects but once we got a drug that worked the improvement was noticeable. I slept downstairs near her room for about a month, probably the longest month I can remember, but it was the right thing to do.

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"The great pleasure in life is doing what people say you cannot do."

Very thankful to hear there is improvement. Those of us with teenage daughters realize we are all on the ragged edge trying to get them through the teen years into adulthood. Will check back in a bit and looking forward to your lessons learned once you're through this passage.

This is awesome news, sir. I wasn't here in March, so I started with your initial post and read through this thread, at first with a sense of dread. I'm so glad to learn of these improvements. Certainly, the best wishes of my wife and I will be with you and your daughter as you both work your way through this condition. Good luck and much support sent your way.

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"Politics is just show business for ugly people."

In the interest of transparency I want you all to know it's turned out that she had been cutting herself for months before she was diagnosed, we had no clue. We talk openly about it now and she hasn't had a relapse.

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"The great pleasure in life is doing what people say you cannot do."

Seen that - it's crazy and takes time for us parents (Dad's in particular) to grasp it. You're on it , acknowledging the issues, and open about the reality - you're a great Dad, she's lucky to have you. Believe me, while you're on the edge, I'm very close depending on the day/time/issue. My eldest once told me she wants to kill herself, and told me she's so depressed she can't finish high school. I feel your pain, and while a million miles from your current reality, just a moment away from my own reality.

Look forward to another positive report in a few months. Hang in there, lots of us are thinking about you and your daughter and here if you need anything. Anything at all.

I'm glad things are looking up.

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maybe she's born with it, maybe it's chlorine
If you're injured and need some sympathy, PM me and I'm very happy to write back.
disclaimer: PhD not MD

I have first hand knowledge of this having gone through it with one child (boy) and loosing him to suicide by hanging. We hid everything, that didn't stop it. We spent many nights in his room or on the sofa or not sleeping. We did EVERYTHING- psychiatrist, meds, working with the school etc. He wasn't like your kiddo tho- he got into drugs, bad friends and crazy stuff. We even had to hospitalize him; that's when they changed his meds from Lexepro/abilify to Seroquel. DO NOT use this drug! I warn everyone. Try to read HURT 2.0 to understand this culture of kids in this day and age. They range from achievers to drug users.
My other son is on Lexepro and quite the ability after a while. He was just always depressed like your girl with dysthemia plus anxiety and intrusive thoughts. He too is with both a psychiatrist and psychologist and as he has matured has really grown well and is really able to manage most of it but there are times I still worry. I can't go through this again. The book above really speaks to the unspoken pain all these kids feel and act out on. I will keep you in my prayers. Nature is right on! and my older son loves his animals. Just petting them or sleeping with them helps tremendously. I also add we've done a lot of family therapy as well.

Glad to hear that things are going better.

Thanks again. I ask my daughter regularly how she feels. She's a 6 out of ten today, which is a lot better then when I first started this thread. One thing to add is she got her first "B" on her final report card. It really set her back for a week but I think in the long run it was a good thing for her to see that the world did not end because she's no longer "perfect".

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"The great pleasure in life is doing what people say you cannot do."

I appreciate the link. Thank you.

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"The great pleasure in life is doing what people say you cannot do."

Hey - thinking about you and the realities of life for your daughter. Hope its slowly improving.

Damn I'm sorry you had to go through that and still do.

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"The great pleasure in life is doing what people say you cannot do."

My eldest nephew had something similar. He is in medical school now, went ivy for undergrad and valedictorian in high school. From the outside everything looked great, but he puts a lot of pressure on himself to succeed. He got his first B on a test as a college sophmore and to him, the world was over. He did very well in counseling and is very successful now in medical school. I think his anxiety about grades and getting inyo medical school created his depression. Sorry so long winded but what are your daughters goals and is she nervous or anxious about being successful in achieving those goals. I think overachievers are so used to succeeding that when the future is cloudy for them ie where she is planning to go to college ect can trigger anxiety which then leads to depression. To quote yoda"always cloudy is the future" and for over achievers cloudy is very scary. Just my opinion based on my own experience as i am not a psychologist.
You are doing all the right things :-)

My daughter is a type "A" overachiever. She plans to go to Stanford, become a doctor and then be part of Doctors without Borders. Great aspirations, but she is her own worst enemy. I said above she got her first "B" this year. Fortunately she seemed to take that quite well. School starts in another week. Volleyball practice has already started for her. I'm not sure if she's better off in school or out.

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"The great pleasure in life is doing what people say you cannot do."

My mum has suffered from depression from her teenage years pretty much up to very recently, where she seems a lot more chill (she's 72 this year).
Several suicide attempts in a 50 year or so timeframe. And frankly, the only advice I have is be there for her, and don't blame yourself when she feels bad.
It really sucks, and I can't even imagine how it feels when it's your child.
There is a variety of drugs to manage symptoms, but they all come with side effects, and affect people differently.
I think in teens the typical timeframe to call the dx dysthymia is 12 months per DSM5 though. Also, it's typically seen as a somewhat milder form of depression,
and the estimate is around 25% of teens experience some form of depression, so hopefully, it is short-lived.

All my love to you. As a person who suffers from chronic depression and suicidal tendencies all I can say is love her and do what the doctors say.

Reading this gave me a strong sense of Déjà vu. About 12 years ago our daughter was in a very similar place. She sounds very much like your daughter in so many ways. The only big difference I see is that our daughter reached her lowest point as a senior in HS. At least one med they tried made it even worse . . . she tried taking a bottle full of sleeping pills and ended up in the ER and then in the adolescent psych ward for about a week. It took several months, but they were able to come up with meds that helped. I believe she was on them for at least a couple more years.

I wish I could remember more details that might help, but I can tell you that not only did she get through it, she has gone on to thrive. She just got married this spring to a wonderful guy, is already expecting a baby and super excited. She has a dream job, lives in her childhood dream area of Southern CA, and just in general has a great life and really happy. So, I believe you will get through this as well though it might not be easy.

It sounds to me like you already are doing all the right things to support her and help her through this. Our daughter often comes right out and says how thankful she is for our unconditional love and support. Hang in there, and keep believing!

Wonderful to hear how your daughter not only survived but is grateful for her life. It's inspiring.

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"The great pleasure in life is doing what people say you cannot do."