Obligatory: user name checks out.

Yes you are too heavy for an endurance athlete. I'm 1/2 inch shorter than you and weigh 175lbs and I think I ought to be in high 160s. (Easily done when not swimming but hard for me when swimming.)

Can you drop to 180lbs? That should be easy.

I believe that every pound lost will lower your run time by about two seconds per mile.

LOL. And thanks for just being honest! I trained really hard throughout the Winter. Really Hard. And I just raced and I raced about the same as I have for 2 years. I felt like I've simply Max'd out how fast my body will go(obviously there could be other factors) I think my plan is to hold off on racing for a bit...and tone back my training so I am not always starving, and really focus on dropping these LB's.

I'm 6' 2" 178 and I always feel like a slighter bigger triathlete compared to a lot of the elites (which I am not one of). I would think the run is where being heavier causes the most issues. For me, I'm not willing to go below about 175. I just feel too skinny.

Those two don't go together.


What's your definition of a bad half ironman run? Are we talking going a 1:28 off the bike or a 1:45? There's a big difference. For me personally if I'm within 5-10 mins of my open half time, I'm happy. I've only managed to do it a few times and the other times I've blown up.

Lean? 6'5" 160 lbs

Does weight make a difference? How many fast 200lb guys do you see racing?

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Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

Boom Nutrition code 19F4Y3 $5 off 24 pack box | Bionic Runner | PowerCranks | Velotron | Spruzzamist

Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep

Can't recall where I saw it, but once read that ideally for triathlon you fall between 2.2-2.3lbs of bodyweight per inch of height. Of course there is some wiggle room in that number. Some people do not race well or cannot stay healthy once they reach a certain weight.

You are currently right around 2.7 - I would consider maybe trying to drop a few pounds, but ultimately it depends what your goals are. You're already moving pretty well at your current weight.

For the majority of people, the answer is likely yes - your weight is slowing you down.

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"Don't you have to go be stupid somewhere else?"..."Not until 4!"

For reference, Andy Potts is 6'3 and 175

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Take a short break from ST and read my blog:
http://tri-banter.blogspot.com/

I'm 6'2 and race at 155.

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2x Deca-Ironman World Cup (10 Ironmans in 10 days), 2x Quintuple Ironman World Cup (5 Ironmans in 5 days), Ultraman, Ultra Marathoner, and I once did an Ironman.

I started out right about where you are - 6 ft 3, 205 lbs and pretty lean. I am now closer to about 185-190 on race day and still feel giant compared to the guys finishing around me. My buddy is about my height and races closer to 160 - he is much, much, much faster than me across the board - but on the run overwhelmingly so. That's largely due to his hard work, consistency, experience and talent - however lugging around 35 lbs less on the run has to help!

I can't imagine 160, however I had a hard time envisioning 185 back when I was 205. I am going to do my best to hit 175 at some point this year to see how it feels. I did get back to about 185 recently after spending a little too much time back around 195 (not lean) late last year/earlier this year and could really feel the difference. Hoping the next 10 lbs is as noticeable.

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"It's good enough for who it's for" - Grandpa Wayne

I started a year ago at 6'0" 184lbs. I am down to 163lbs and I am seeing huge gains in my running. The real question is how low can you go without it being a burden. I plateaued at 165lbs for a couple months and then started to cut out all junk food and all added sugars. I probably can't maintain that forever but I am interested to see how much lower I can go.

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"If it costs you 30 minutes at Maryland so what" -dwreal

I have a friend who's 5'10, weighs 227 and has sub 10% body fat...

Is your friend a NFL RB or LB?
Sounds like a perfect body shape for football.

Those are called body builders. Wasn't Ronnie Coleman like 300 pounds and 4% body fat at shows?

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2x Deca-Ironman World Cup (10 Ironmans in 10 days), 2x Quintuple Ironman World Cup (5 Ironmans in 5 days), Ultraman, Ultra Marathoner, and I once did an Ironman.

If you want to be a good endurance athlete you need to stop just looking at the percentage of body fat you have to determine if you have good body composition. It's all mass. Mass that you're carrying around on the run when already tired (in triathlon). You are too heavy and sounds like you need to lose muscle. (probably still need to lose fat too)

I completely agree. Telling my wife I need to lose some weight, she just rolls her eyes. But with my goals, I know I need to treat my diet and nutrition with the same importance as I do with my training. I was closer to 220 in college, but was active in different sports...still pretty lean. I agree on the muscle AND fat loss. I just wish it was easier. I have a new respect for anyone that has lost a significant amount of weight. It's not easy. I think if I tone back training, and make this my #1, then I'll see some good weight loss. I'm only concerned with Speed. Tim Reed mentioned how powerful Sanders is on the the bike....but also mentioned that's he's essentially "carrying an extra bike" bc Sanders is heavier. Definitely makes sense, and I'm going to look at it as Free Speed.

I may revisit this post in 2-3 months to see if any updates are worth mentioning.
Thanks!

What's your run volume look like?

When I got into triathlon 2.5 years ago I thought I was a pretty thin guy at 6' 178 lbs. A few years before that I was 214.

Anyway, once I got my run volume up to 40, 50+ mpw the weight has fallen off. I now look like a triathlete at 163 lbs. It's amazing the mass you can drop that you didn't realize. And to top it off I'm running soooooo much faster now.

Anyway, try and start running 50+ mpw (build up to it if you're not close to that now) and eat sensibly. You'll change your body.

I actually read your post, but I didn't have to because the only possible answer to a subject line like that is: yes.

I always comment to my wife that if one put the food down on a table that a person eats in a week, and have a number of tables like this, without seeing the person, one could pretty easily guess which one is heavy and which one is thin. You cannot stay heavy UNLESS you put lots of food between the teeth!!!

It is NOT easy to keep my weight where it is. I work in it each day, just like my training. I have not had any cookies for lunch, or ice cream for dinner for weeks now since the scale each night does not lie!! (Eating out multiple days per week, for the last year and a half does not make it easy to keep weight off!)

I am always amazed when folks say how to get faster, but want to ignore the elephant in the room on their weight. If you are playing football or weight lifting, who cares.
But if you want to compete in a sport with running, well, ....

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Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

Boom Nutrition code 19F4Y3 $5 off 24 pack box | Bionic Runner | PowerCranks | Velotron | Spruzzamist

Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep

6'1" and 130lbs atm. I hover between 130-140. At 6" I imagine you could get in the 120's assuming you only run and don't swim.

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OlympicHopeful.com - Interviews with aspiring Olympians | Strava
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“More often than not bad luck meant bad plans” -Joe Abercrombie

Genetics plays a huge role. Some people can pack on muscle easy and others can't for the life of them. I always gain weight when I'm biking/swimming more than I'm running. I eat a lot of protein too so I pack on muscle quickly. I'm up to 189lbs at 6'2" with 11% BF. I'll bump up my run mileage in the 50-60mpw starting in April and will get down to 185lbs or so. Your weight will hold you back for sure on the run but we all can't be 6'3" and 130lbs. You could go 30 days without eating and not get that low. You can be a bigger athlete and still be decent in triathlon. Heck....I missed out on a Kona slot by 1 slot this year on a hilly IM course. I ran a 3:30 and probably could have been a 3:25 if I paced better.

I started training for tri's last May and was 200 lbs and I am 6'2". When I started last year I was at 9 min miles for 1/2 marathon and now since I am 180 lbs I am around 8:30 miles. Losing weight has helped but I am sure my times will go down a lot since I am actually starting to run 6 days a week and building my way up to 50 mpw (at 25 mpw now). So for me I think that if I lose another 20 lbs I will get faster but the extra running will help me much more.

Wanted to add, the encouraging thing is you're already pretty dang fast at standalone running races, so your VO2 is really good. Once you drop 20 lbs you will be crushing it!!

I appreciate this thread. This is EXACTLY where I'm at. Started Tri last September. Used to be a "go to the gym to look strong" type of dude. 6,0 flat. 200lbs.

Did my first 26.2 in December at 5 hrs 45 min (yikes!). My run is so slow. And my right heel is not happy with me (I'm guessing this might be lingering from the massive jump up to 26.2).

Eating mostly plant based and I want to start packing on the runs per week.

I'm curious, I've been swimming ALOT for me. 4-6 miles a week. What's the deal with the negative weight impact a few of you have mentioned?

I'm seeing a couple weight posts here a week, so maybe we should start a weekly/monthly progress thread for those on the journey.

I've talked about this before, but I'm also right here with ya. 6'0", 195 this morning, started in early February just north of 210. I'd like to get to 175 by June. Ideally I think I'd like to end up at 165 but I don't know if I can get there during the season without sacrificing training. Right now I have enough extra weight that I can easily train to get faster and lose weight at the same time. I think once the season's over I can focus on getting my weight/composition to whatever it should be and then really hammer a training cycle.

On one hand I really want to ramp up my run volume. On the other hand, I really don't want to get injured running a lot at this weight.

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Your favorite mafia sucks.

Why do so many folks play the game with the weight gain, then try to get it off. The body is smart, once it sees this game it works hard
to not let one lose the weight again.

So many ask about swim, bike and run training. But it seems so many ignore the most important aspect of racing, and that is not being fat.
IMO, the second more important piece of racing is sleep. If these two are not being dealt with, well, IMO, it is clear that racing really is not that
important. Racing well is hard work. Training well is hard work. Keeping the weight off ALL year long is HARD work. Stuffing ones face is easy.

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Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

Boom Nutrition code 19F4Y3 $5 off 24 pack box | Bionic Runner | PowerCranks | Velotron | Spruzzamist

Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep

just run slow and don't add more than 10% volume per week. Ideally you add 10% every other week. You can get to 40 mpw from 20 mpw in about 4 months this way, plenty conservative.

This sortof reinforces that it's all about the bike as I can only assume you crushed the bike to have barely missed a slot with a 3:30 run so having all that extra muscle for bike power isn't bad at all.

OP I don't think you need to lose weight unless you really feel like you're over. Sure you won't be crushing the run but you'll be crushing the bike and cruising the run and still do quite well. Of course, if you're planning on doing something in super hot weather the weight does become a factor as most will attest.

Now if your goal is to run fast, then yep lose all the weight possible without getting injured, fatigued or sick. Everyone will always run faster with less weight. I have yet to hear lots of stories of runners saying man I wish I hadn't lost that extra 5 lbs because it just made me slower. ;)

In my instance (and a few of the posters here) it's the initial lifestyle transition to Triathlon philosophy. I'm pretty lean, i'm just a slightly bulkier dude because of all the years in the gym. I don't know how long it takes to lose muscle but I i've got a little extra "mass" I'd like to see drop for speed sake.

I think the answer is simple, diligence to the training process and eating clean. For me that means plant based with a little intermittent fasting thrown in there. For others it might be different.

I'd love for this conversation to be ongoing. It's encouraging to a) not be the only one and b) to celebrate each others success as we progress.

That's the plan I'm on now. 10% weekly increase. Volume going up, weight going down, just gotta be patient.

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Your favorite mafia sucks.

It is interesting to see so many add the little comments about the type of food they eat, like yours on plant based.

Everything I have read about diets is it does not really matter what type of food, in general is eaten. The common component in all the diets is portion control.

I can eat ANY type of food I want. I cant stand plant based stuff! But I never get seconds. I never pile the plate full of food. I am hungry all the time. I 99% never drink sodas, lots of water and milk and OJ. I had like 10 chips yesterday and felt guilty since I am not at my pig out weight yet, but boy did that salt taste good!

Heck with things like fasting. I just eat 3 times a day, decent food, but always in portion control and allow the scale each night to tell me what I can eat the next day.
I want my cookies back but when I am eating out 2 to 4 times a week, well, something has to give, and I want my root beer floats at Sizzler. :)

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Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

Boom Nutrition code 19F4Y3 $5 off 24 pack box | Bionic Runner | PowerCranks | Velotron | Spruzzamist

Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep

Haha we're all running our own race here brother. And yes, salty chips are the BEST.

I think there's a fine line/balance to weight loss for endurance sports. Sure, the lighter you are, the more likely you are to run faster, but at what cost? If you're not a pro and merely trying to be competitive, are those 10 or so pounds really worth it? I mean, take Ryan Hall as an example. At his prime running marathons at 127lbs, he was so weak he would get sore from stirring a pot of chili. If you're a "hobbyist," is that something you want? I personally would rather be a few minutes slower and still effective in my daily life and able to carry the groceries inside in one trip. Granted, this is a bit of an extreme, but just food for thought....

https://www.outsideonline.com/2087751/yes-professional-runners-are-weak

You are talking extremes here. Bottom line is most folks in our country are either over weight or way way over weight. We do not have a problem with too
many being too thin.

So many want to joke off the extra pounds they are over weight, rather than being honest and doing something about it.

But, if that is what a "hobbyist" person wants to do, great, just do not ask about how to get faster racing, since clearly, the person is no serious enough
to start with the number 1 reason they are not competitive. The day a fat person beats me in a race will be the day I eat crow.

Another question I love to ask folks is how many fat older folks do you see in a rest home?

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Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

Boom Nutrition code 19F4Y3 $5 off 24 pack box | Bionic Runner | PowerCranks | Velotron | Spruzzamist

Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep

can you just go away?

You have a few pounds to lose?

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Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

Boom Nutrition code 19F4Y3 $5 off 24 pack box | Bionic Runner | PowerCranks | Velotron | Spruzzamist

Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep

Wow...on a serious soap box eh.

not really, no. just tired of seeing your self-important useless blabber high-jack and ruin what was becoming an interesting and informative string.

I agree, but it's not like we're telling this 6'3" 200lb guy to get to 150 lbs. If he lost 15-20 lbs, he'd still be considerably heavier that the 2.2-2.3 lbs/in mentioned earlier in the thread, but he'd almost certainly be much faster at triathlon (especially long course).

It doesn't matter what type of food you eat if your only goal is to maintain a certain weight. If you want to also be healthy, and/or you want to make it easy to maintain that weight, then what you eat can make a big difference. Being hungry all the time sounds miserable, as does feeling guilty about having 10 chips for that matter. Changing your diet can allow you to stay at weight without having to be hungry all the time.

There are 10 ways to skin a cat. What works for someone is great. As we know, everything I do in life is wrong.)

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Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

Boom Nutrition code 19F4Y3 $5 off 24 pack box | Bionic Runner | PowerCranks | Velotron | Spruzzamist

Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep

This sounds like the definition of anorexia

People are always amazed at how much feed I can eat, and stay thin. :)

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Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

Boom Nutrition code 19F4Y3 $5 off 24 pack box | Bionic Runner | PowerCranks | Velotron | Spruzzamist

Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep

I'm so with you........I can't stand the sanctimonious "I'm so thin but I hate vegetables" dribble on Every. Single. Thread.

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leslie myers
http://www.foodsensenow.com

Why don't you shut your pie hole. What a useless pile of Bs you spew on these threads.

You need a serious reality check here. If you claim to do this all for health, you are massively misguided. Staying at your weight and training as much as you do is for performance, not health. Stop trying to be so noble.

I need to go on the cabbage and water plan to get to race weight. Throw in some good helpings of olive oil, eggs and lean proteins and its an annual ritual to get to the appropriate body so that weight does not slow me down. I actually find the process kind of fun and challenging because in theory it gets more and more impossible, but all it takes is more and more and more and more will power, and like any destination, arriving at the destination is more fulfilling the harder it is. To get to the a body composition that is optimal for racing, I am combining training hard with appropriate rest and watching what I eat, when I eat it, how much etc etc. Then later, I go through another cycle where I gradually put on a 3-7 lbs over 3-6 months and then gradually reverse the cycle. But the whole process is hard, just like training is hard, just like getting enough rest is hard and just like work is hard....but that's what age groupers who sign up for this lifestyle generally want. In one of his race victory speeches, Jordan Rapp addressed the crowd and said, something along the lines of, "Everyone of you signed up for this knowing it is hard, not easy, and if it was easy you would not even bother signing up" (or something along those lines). Getting to appropriate body composition is hard but I think that's why we all try. If everyone could roll out of bed and be body builder ripped combined with supermodel lean (OK extreme at both ends but you get the picture), it would not be as much fun trying.

Well said, I wish it were easy and I could eat all the pizza and cookies I wanted. :(

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Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

Boom Nutrition code 19F4Y3 $5 off 24 pack box | Bionic Runner | PowerCranks | Velotron | Spruzzamist

Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep

Who says that the poster isn't competitive, or that weight is his #1 problem? He's a 200lb guy who can run a 1h20min 1/2 marathon. You say that you'll eat crow if a fat person beats you. I assume based on your statements that you consider the poster fat... can you run that fast? Also, I've seen plenty of fat old people, if you are calling men that are 6' 200lb fat.

Are you only allowed to ask questions about getting faster, if you're willing to work on what is presumed to be the biggest weakness? It is not appropriate to come to a forum and ask people to help you identify potential strengths and weaknesses, and then decide what the best course of action is?

The person is appears to have a mesomorphic body type, and I think it's same to assume that if he is reasonably lean, if he can run a 1h20m 1/2. Could his weight be a factor in why he underperforms in 1/2 IM's, yes, or maybe more likely that his overall and/or bike fitness is not relatively as good as his run-only fitness.

Could losing weight be a reasonable course of action for this athlete? Certainly. But with the limited amount of data we have, it is certainly not the only option to see improvement, and it is certainly unfair to say that he is not serious, if it's not his first priority.

Now back to one of the original posters questions.... additional weight will affect you significantly more on the run, than on the bike, unless you are on pretty hilly courses.

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John Hartpence, Athlete & Coach
tripence@gmail.com, @coachpence

I'm 6'2" and 180, i try to race long stuff at 175, I have raced Iron at 170 but had my best time on the same course at 175, similar weather. I have never been a fast runner but can finish respectably for a 48 year old who started late-first marathon at 40. I am fast on a bike, usually front of pack fast, for triathlon anyway. My open half time is nowhere near yours. That all being said weighing less is one key to injury free seasons. 200 or more pounds is a lot of meat to hold up over a long course. If you overbike, easy to do if you enjoy racing and get carried away, the less weight you have to drag to finish the easier it will be. I played rugby at 220 in college.

YES

Your weight is slowing you down, but so what? I use racing as a mnotivation to put it all on the line. After 31 years of racing I finally got a 3rd palce Clydesdale Masters coffee mug. Felt real good, but for me It's all just a giant personal throw down. I'm 6'5" 225lbs. Lighter than when I was 13. Keep on killin' it!

I have no advice for you but I feel your pain. I'm 6'3 and over 200lbs. I'm also pretty lean but being an ex rower I'm still carrying a lot of extra muscle mass from those years in the boat. When ever I try to lose weight I end up sick. No fun there.
On the bright side I can hit the weight room and leg press a house, ( compared to my triathlete friends that is)

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I reject your reality and substitute my own!
Adam Savage

I am 6'0 and weigh 175lbs. I also ran about 1:20 for a half last year, but I can't help but feel that if I weighed less I would be a bit faster.
I seem to have settled between 175-180lbs now, but want to get to 165lbs for race season, though I have wanted to do that for a while and never managed it!

If I were you, I would be curious about how fast I could get if I weighed less. I mean at 185lbs you could maybe be 30 seconds per mile faster, meaning 1:15 or so for a HM. Not many people run that fast!

I think heat dissipation is probably important too, bigger guys can't cool as well as smaller guys. I know Macca always complained that he was too big for Kona, and he isn't really a big guy!

Thank you for the good laugh this morning, Joshawa.

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"If it costs you 30 minutes at Maryland so what" -dwreal

I'm also a plant-based triathlete. Started intermittent fasting & dropped 5 pounds of fat and a few pounds of muscle based on Dexa scan, since December 2016.

Google intermittent fasting and you will find tons of resources, but you can buy books as well.

Good luck to OP

I definitely agree that some people often get out of hand in their weight loss. Im 6'3 and 175lb, will prob go down to 170 for my races this summer. However I have gone from over 200lb so have of course seen extreme improvements in my run.
Another thing is I dont quite understand how everyone is talking about always being hungry, and practically starving themselves, yes the last few lb when you are already lean are tough to get rid of but the majority of the weight is imo quite easily lost with training and somewhat reasonable fodd intake. For example I need around 2500kcal/day if im not working out to sustain my weight, a normal day I will r/b/s 2-3h and burn at least 1500kcal but more often than not 2k+. This means that even on a deficit I can eat 3500-4000/day which is a lot of food. I never weigh my food or think about how many kcal to eat, but I do stay away from unhealthy foods at least on weekdays (when I stuff my face). Of course age plays a large part as well, Im only 23 so I know my metabolism will get worse, but still can't understand the extremes some go to.

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Terrible Tuesday’s Triathlon

Lol. In all honesty I think it really changes from person to person as to how low you can go. My brother was 30-40 lbs heavier than I was when he was ski racing and I doubt he could have lost much weight without starving himself (I did and still do eat way more than he does) or losing muscle.

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OlympicHopeful.com - Interviews with aspiring Olympians | Strava
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You have no idea. At 23, I could eat EVERYTHING. Twice. I couldn't gain a pound back then to save my life through consumption. Just. Didn't. Matter.

At 48? Yeah, different story.

Hi, do yo have any advice to lose muscle? I'm on the big side of the equation, as I was a speed swimmer (50,100 and sometimes 200mts), and I gain muscle quite easily.

I actually find this very interesting, Gomez is notoriously known for weighing all his food and being cautious of his intake, meanwhile the brownies brothers are very keen on chocolate cake and eat pretty much what ever they want (of course mostly healthy foods but still). Perhaps the difference in metabolism is at work even there.

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Terrible Tuesday’s Triathlon

I'm no expert, but the obvious answer is you have to eat less. The scale will tell you if you're eating too much and you'll learn over time what it will take to lose weight.

Thanks, yeah, I'll see what I can do, I have been going with a nutritionist, but still struggle...

That's likely more an effect of (a) lack of bike fitness or (b) pushing the bike leg too hard

Do you guys think weight makes that much of a difference? More so on the bike or run?
1. yes
2. run

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maybe she's born with it, maybe it's chlorine
If you're injured and need some sympathy, PM me and I'm very happy to write back.
disclaimer: PhD not MD

Interesting word fasting.

I start my exercise at 5am each morning, for 2 to 3 hours. I eat breakfast at 4:30am. I eat nothing during the training, or until lunch at 12. I sure would not call this fasting. I just know that the more you eat, no matter what time, the more one puts on pounds.

And there is a big difference between a person being "big" like in body type, compared to being "fat". So many seem to want to say a person is Big. Well,
if they bounce up and down running, well.

I just carried a 42 lb box of cat litter down my stairs. I cannot image weighing 200 lbs and putting all they extra strain on my legs all day long.

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Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

Boom Nutrition code 19F4Y3 $5 off 24 pack box | Bionic Runner | PowerCranks | Velotron | Spruzzamist

Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep

Only in NASCAR

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"What's your claim?" - Ben Gravy
"Your best work is the work you're excited about" - Rick Rubin

...It only took 64 previous posts for someone to add this suggestion...

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just your average age grouper . no one special . no scientific knowledge . just having fun.