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Pros on Gatorskins
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For the love of God... why?
I remember that Potts mentioned he averaged 300+W in Kona last year. At the time I though that should have netted a faster split but I read this today and there it is... GATORSKINS!


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For 2016, Potts is taking a renewed focus on equipment, looking to improve on his 4th-place at last year's Ironman World Championships in Hawaii. Fortunately, there was quite a bit of low-hanging fruit. Wheels and tires, for example. Last year in Hawaii, Andy was riding 25mm GATORSKIN tires with butyl tubes!!! The switch to GP4000 + Latex might alone be worth several minutes. Upgrading to Enve wheels, ceramicspeed bearings and chain, and significant position refinements are all going to add up to some significant savings for Potts. I'm really excited as a fan of the sport to see what he does.

http://www.tririg.com/galleries.php?id=2016_04_Andy_Potts_Signs_TriRig_Omega_X&num=6#Andy's Rig with Omega X Brakes
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Re: Pros on Gatorskins [sp1ke] [ In reply to ]
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No way he was using that. Can someone find a picture to prove this?

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Re: Pros on Gatorskins [colinlaughery] [ In reply to ]
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Here's a picture from check in. Full size here: http://cdn.triathlon.competitor.com/...2015/10/3JB_3970.jpg



Last edited by: sp1ke: Apr 22, 16 11:20
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Re: Pros on Gatorskins [colinlaughery] [ In reply to ]
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http://www.slowtwitch.com/Products/IM_Kona_2015_-_men_bike_pics_5418.html has a pic of Andy on the bike and although it's difficult to tell since it's in motion, the logo on those tires sure looks like the GP4000 logo, but I guess it could be a Gatorskin... tough to tell
Last edited by: noofus: Apr 22, 16 11:23
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Re: Pros on Gatorskins [sp1ke] [ In reply to ]
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Including the aero penalty, there's more than just a few minutes there. At minimum I'd estimate it's the difference between him and Frodeno off the bike... in other words, pretty much the margin of victory. Meaning he would have been running with Frodeno, pushing him and possibly changing the tactics of the run altogether.


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Re: Pros on Gatorskins [sp1ke] [ In reply to ]
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Thanks for that.

Seeing this blows my mind. I am positive that people talked about how much he would be losing with this setup. I just wonder if he had some mental scaring from a flat in the past of something.

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Re: Pros on Gatorskins [colinlaughery] [ In reply to ]
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This one sure looks to me like it says Gator Skin. Here's the link because the embedded one will be down-rezzed:

http://c8.alamy.com/...tomorrows-F3TNP4.jpg





Last edited by: kcb203: Apr 22, 16 12:46
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Re: Pros on Gatorskins [kcb203] [ In reply to ]
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And here's one of just his bike obviously taken in the lava fields in Kona, but it's not race day and may not be the race setup, but it obviously says GatorSkin:

http://www.shimano.com.au/content/sac-bike/en/home/ride-shimano-radio/podcast-episodes0/ep6--andy-potts/_jcr_content/bodycontent/titletextteaser_7/image/file.res/1444334578418.jpg




Last edited by: kcb203: Apr 22, 16 12:47
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Re: Pros on Gatorskins [sp1ke] [ In reply to ]
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A photo shoot with hairy legs. The horror!

24 Hour World TT Champs-American record holder
Fat Bike Worlds - Race Director
Insta: chris.s.apex
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Re: Pros on Gatorskins [sp1ke] [ In reply to ]
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Wow, I would have thought the pros would have a free-speed checklist (with respect to their sponsors too) that they would use during race days....
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Re: Pros on Gatorskins [sp1ke] [ In reply to ]
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I still can't believe this. So he basically gave up a solid 30 watts to someone riding 4000S or maybe close to 35 watts for someone running real fast rolling tires. So basically a full 1 mph lost....and he was 4th place. Unreal.

And I see a big old RD cage on the new bike as well. Another 2 watts.

So assuming his chain treatment sucked as well he could be +40 watts on tubes, tires, drive train. He could add another couple going to the faster wheels. So probably at worst he's probably going to be 40 watts faster. LOL.

And we haven't even considered the frame / body position yet!

24 Hour World TT Champs-American record holder
Fat Bike Worlds - Race Director
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Re: Pros on Gatorskins [flyrunride] [ In reply to ]
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flyrunride wrote:
Wow, I would have thought the pros would have a free-speed checklist (with respect to their sponsors too) that they would use during race days....

Some get paranoid about punctures and don;t realize how much slower or faster a tire is. A lot of that understanding is relatively new. 10 years ago, 99% would only be concerned that a gatorskin is heavier and rides firmer. We now realize, since we stopped listening to roadies, that weight is almost irrelevant, and RR and more so, aerodynamic properties are what really matter.

Keep in mind, Potts started out in ITU, so he might have spent too much time with more road racing focused individuals.


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Re: Pros on Gatorskins [colinlaughery] [ In reply to ]
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colinlaughery wrote:
No way he was using that. Can someone find a picture to prove this?
Let there be no doubt. This is from Andy on course in Kona last year, riding the 25c Gatorskins. First is the full shot, then closeups of the wheels (just crops of the same image). It's a little tough to read, but they were Gatorskins both front and rear. The good news is that he's seen the light and is on faster rubber this year.







--
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Re: Pros on Gatorskins [TriRig] [ In reply to ]
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Nick - thank you for setting him straight!

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New Training/Racing Log - http://www.earthdaykid.com/blog --- Old Training/Racing Log - http://colinlaughery.blogspot.com
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Re: Pros on Gatorskins [sp1ke] [ In reply to ]
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Also I do tend to notice that the fast people I know do not always know the best equipment or know about the newest stuff because they are just fast and do not think about it. They are always training and unless they geek out on equipment they are not likely to care. Most geek out on training. half the guys that blow me away are on the oldest looking bike some from the late 90's!

2019 T-Rex Tri Series
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Re: Pros on Gatorskins [motoguy128] [ In reply to ]
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wow, just wow. you know there have been posts over the years here and there by pros (I can think of one by Thomas in particular) about being astonished at some of the aero-penalties some of the pros were subjecting themselves to. I would bet behind the scenes this was a running thing/joke with the pros. Like "hey I think I saw Gatorskins on Potts bike.." "SHHH KEEP your voice down he might hear you..."
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Re: Pros on Gatorskins [ajthomas] [ In reply to ]
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Sanders rode GatorSkins until last year:

ST: I think Cody Beals also has maybe taught you some lessons but in terms of bike setup tricks.

Lionel: I’ve learned a lot from Cody Beals over the years. The biggest lessons with regards to the bike came when he told me I was losing a ton of time running Gatorskins. I told him that I was afraid of getting a flat tire. He showed me a bunch of complicated physics calculations that I didn’t understand, but the gist was that I was probably losing more time running the Gatorskins then it would take me to change a flat. Now I just carry a spare tubular, and keep my fingers crossed the whole race.

http://www.slowtwitch.com/...l_Sanders__5168.html
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Re: Pros on Gatorskins [TriRig] [ In reply to ]
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THE HUMANITY!!!!


hey maybe this year he'll train on something better for him. For pros, every second counts....
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Re: Pros on Gatorskins [flyrunride] [ In reply to ]
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flyrunride wrote:
THE HUMANITY!!!!


hey maybe this year he'll train on something better for him. For pros, every second counts....


judging by the posts on slowtwitch, we're all pros. ;)
Last edited by: TriTamp: Apr 22, 16 13:44
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Re: Pros on Gatorskins [TriRig] [ In reply to ]
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TriRig wrote:
The good news is that he's seen the light and is on faster rubber this year.

Nick,

Doesn't ENVE recommend against using latex tubes in their wheels?

Also, do you know what cockpit that is?

Thanks

I'm just this guy ya know?
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Re: Pros on Gatorskins [sp1ke] [ In reply to ]
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How unspeakably awesome would it be if he was actually running 4000S with one-off Gatorskin logos, just to whip Teh Internetz into a frenzy?!

Eliot
blog thing - strava thing
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Re: Pros on Gatorskins [renorider] [ In reply to ]
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renorider wrote:
How unspeakably awesome would it be if he was actually running 4000S with one-off Gatorskin logos, just to whip Teh Internetz into a frenzy?!

Or to help sell Gatorskins? Wouldn't be the first time a tyre wasn't what it said on the label.
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Re: Pros on Gatorskins [TriRig] [ In reply to ]
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TriRig wrote:
colinlaughery wrote:
No way he was using that. Can someone find a picture to prove this?

Let there be no doubt. This is from Andy on course in Kona last year, riding the 25c Gatorskins. First is the full shot, then closeups of the wheels (just crops of the same image). It's a little tough to read, but they were Gatorskins both front and rear. The good news is that he's seen the light and is on faster rubber this year.






I am really confused, Nick, have you not been Andy's service course advisor for quite some time? Didn't I hear on TRS interview last year that you had just outfitted Potts bike with a TriRig brake. Did you not have a discussion with him regarding tires?


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Re: Pros on Gatorskins [Thomas Gerlach] [ In reply to ]
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What about the time he is losing with his helmet sticking up in the wind like that ;)
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Re: Pros on Gatorskins [TriRig] [ In reply to ]
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NIck ... considering he raced at Oceanside on new bike / wheels / position ... and he has lots of data points form previous years doing that course ... how did things add up this year? I know he has riden aster there before (last year ?) (yes conditions and dynamics come in to play)

Thanks

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Re: Pros on Gatorskins [colinlaughery] [ In reply to ]
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Narrative control

colinlaughery wrote:
No way he was using that. Can someone find a picture to prove this?

Eric Reid AeroFit | Instagram Portfolio
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Re: Pros on Gatorskins [blanco] [ In reply to ]
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I can remember reading in the Enve wheel booklet that they advise against using latex tubes...
I gather that the reason they state this is due to the latex heating up a bit faster than butyl from braking... The increased heat leads to increased psi and a slightly higher chance of the tyre rolling off the rim.
I can remember posting about this when I read about enve wheels/latex tubes and the feedback that I got from a few guys was that it was fine... Perhaps more of an issue with down hill descents etc as opposed to limited braking in triathlon.
That's my take on it anyway, I could be wrong :-)
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Re: Pros on Gatorskins [sp1ke] [ In reply to ]
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Wow. Wrong tire, tube and helmet. Brother needs to get a slowtwitch account.
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Re: Pros on Gatorskins [3Aims] [ In reply to ]
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this makes me think..... all pros should be using the same gear for the bike, of course sized to their body... then who would come out on top?
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Re: Pros on Gatorskins [Thomas Gerlach] [ In reply to ]
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I thought that was strange too.
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Re: Pros on Gatorskins [PT] [ In reply to ]
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PT wrote:
renorider wrote:
How unspeakably awesome would it be if he was actually running 4000S with one-off Gatorskin logos, just to whip Teh Internetz into a frenzy?!


Or to help sell Gatorskins? Wouldn't be the first time a tyre wasn't what it said on the label.

Those are def. real Gatorskins. The sidewall is very distinctive (vs GP4000s, Supersonics, etc.).

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Re: Pros on Gatorskins [3Aims] [ In reply to ]
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exactly. so much fail, yet one of the few rich triathletes!

(assuming he was paid to ride Gatorskins as he likely was to use that Rudy helmet. Or maybe he got it at a HUGE discount at the expo like the rest of us?)


3Aims wrote:
Wow. Wrong tire, tube and helmet. Brother needs to get a slowtwitch account.

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Re: Pros on Gatorskins [Thomas Gerlach] [ In reply to ]
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I think Andy Potts is coached by Tom Demerly

http://forum.slowtwitch.com/...ost=1829433#p1829433

Nick started to talk about tires but then they both got distracted by the light sabers ;)

Thomas Gerlach wrote:
TriRig wrote:
colinlaughery wrote:
No way he was using that. Can someone find a picture to prove this?

Let there be no doubt. This is from Andy on course in Kona last year, riding the 25c Gatorskins. First is the full shot, then closeups of the wheels (just crops of the same image). It's a little tough to read, but they were Gatorskins both front and rear. The good news is that he's seen the light and is on faster rubber this year.







I am really confused, Nick, have you not been Andy's service course advisor for quite some time? Didn't I hear on TRS interview last year that you had just outfitted Potts bike with a TriRig brake. Did you not have a discussion with him regarding tires?

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Last edited by: ericM40-44: Apr 23, 16 3:40
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Re: Pros on Gatorskins [sp1ke] [ In reply to ]
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I'm just going to go out on a limb and say this is one of the three or four best posts that encapsulates what ST is all about. Cheating rants, witch hunts, T3 types, the cranks that shall not be named, and following races "live" are my other favorites.

sp1ke wrote:
For the love of God... why?
I remember that Potts mentioned he averaged 300+W in Kona last year. At the time I though that should have netted a faster split but I read this today and there it is... GATORSKINS!


Quote:

For 2016, Potts is taking a renewed focus on equipment, looking to improve on his 4th-place at last year's Ironman World Championships in Hawaii. Fortunately, there was quite a bit of low-hanging fruit. Wheels and tires, for example. Last year in Hawaii, Andy was riding 25mm GATORSKIN tires with butyl tubes!!! The switch to GP4000 + Latex might alone be worth several minutes. Upgrading to Enve wheels, ceramicspeed bearings and chain, and significant position refinements are all going to add up to some significant savings for Potts. I'm really excited as a fan of the sport to see what he does.


http://www.tririg.com/galleries.php?id=2016_04_Andy_Potts_Signs_TriRig_Omega_X&num=6#Andy's Rig with Omega X Brakes

Eric Reid AeroFit | Instagram Portfolio
Aerodynamic Retul Bike Fitting

“You are experiencing the criminal coverup of a foreign backed fascist hostile takeover of a mafia shakedown of an authoritarian religious slow motion coup. Persuade people to vote for Democracy.”
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Re: Pros on Gatorskins [cmscat50] [ In reply to ]
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cmscat50 wrote:

And we haven't even considered the frame / body position yet!

that's been getting better (finally!) over the years... although frame is least of his worries.

and you might want to penalize for an ill-fitting suit, if his attention to detail is bad in that area too.

Helmet is what it is, it's a sponsor. It may even work for him.

Eric Reid AeroFit | Instagram Portfolio
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“You are experiencing the criminal coverup of a foreign backed fascist hostile takeover of a mafia shakedown of an authoritarian religious slow motion coup. Persuade people to vote for Democracy.”
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Re: Pros on Gatorskins [motoguy128] [ In reply to ]
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motoguy128 wrote:

Keep in mind, Potts started out in ITU, so he might have spent too much time with more road racing focused individuals.

another point... I've not seen good technical knowledge out of USAT elite program from what I've very briefly seen and heard.

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Re: Pros on Gatorskins [renorider] [ In reply to ]
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QFT

renorider wrote:
How unspeakably awesome would it be if he was actually running 4000S with one-off Gatorskin logos, just to whip Teh Internetz into a frenzy?!

Eric Reid AeroFit | Instagram Portfolio
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“You are experiencing the criminal coverup of a foreign backed fascist hostile takeover of a mafia shakedown of an authoritarian religious slow motion coup. Persuade people to vote for Democracy.”
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Re: Pros on Gatorskins [cmscat50] [ In reply to ]
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if he rode at 300w last year, you're saying that its the equivalent of someone with all the aero, low rr, drive chain and wheels sorted out who was riding at 260? if he changes all that this year and rides at 300w, its not the equivalent of 340, its just maximising the benefit of riding at 300. he'd still be riding at 300, just that would now be the equivalent of someone riding at 340 who makes shit choices - is that correct?
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Re: Pros on Gatorskins [Andrewmc] [ In reply to ]
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I hope he isn't saying that.


Same weight, same or similar position on the bike, we assume he is using same helmet because of sponsor etc.

It ISN'T 40 watts LOL. Please show me the math. Another blatant example of great knowledge on Slowtwitch but an extraordinary lack of knowledge of basic Physics. You can't just backseat quarterback this thing and assume he has an extra 40 watts in his quiver and rides off the front solo to come into T2 5 minutes ahead. That's not how the pro race works. Sure we can argue energy expenditure and he runs a little bit better but that is so subjective.

Im not arguing that its huge low hanging fruit but its not 40 watts worth.
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Re: Pros on Gatorskins [McBoyler] [ In reply to ]
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I dont think I suggested it was - I questioned whether whatever the number was, be it 1, 2, 10 or 40 or more if the point being made was that if someone, all things being equal, did all the correct things - position, latex, tires, drive chain etc, they could ride at that much lower power and finish in the same time.
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Re: Pros on Gatorskins [Andrewmc] [ In reply to ]
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Apologies I wasn't referring back to you. The post above you were asking about. Theoretically absolutely they could ride at a lower power at the exact same time. The major point I was making is it isn't 40 watts like some here are suggesting thats all.

It's also hard to sit back and wonder would Potts have rode 300 watts regardless. There are too many dynamics in the men's bike to make that call.

My post came off a little harsh. Sincere apologies. I just cringe when people make blind statements about numbers they don't fully understand. No offense towards anyone. I'm a student of the sport as much as anyone else.
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Re: Pros on Gatorskins [McBoyler] [ In reply to ]
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You're right,

The important number isn't 20 or 40 or 60 watts it's 25-95$ thousand. His coach also likely lost 10% of that.

Maurice
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Re: Pros on Gatorskins [3Aims] [ In reply to ]
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3Aims wrote:
Wow. Wrong tire, tube and helmet. Brother needs to get a slowtwitch account.

better yet, BeginnerTriathlete.com account!
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Re: Pros on Gatorskins [mauricemaher] [ In reply to ]
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Totally agree. Was just making a point about the numbers - that's all.
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Re: Pros on Gatorskins [McBoyler] [ In reply to ]
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McBoyler wrote:
I hope he isn't saying that.


Same weight, same or similar position on the bike, we assume he is using same helmet because of sponsor etc.

It ISN'T 40 watts LOL. Please show me the math. Another blatant example of great knowledge on Slowtwitch but an extraordinary lack of knowledge of basic Physics. You can't just backseat quarterback this thing and assume he has an extra 40 watts in his quiver and rides off the front solo to come into T2 5 minutes ahead. That's not how the pro race works. Sure we can argue energy expenditure and he runs a little bit better but that is so subjective.

Im not arguing that its huge low hanging fruit but its not 40 watts worth.

You can look up the watts saved via rolling resistance for latex vs butyl (2+ watts per tube) and 4000S vs Gators (8-10 watts per tire). So there's at least 20 watts on tires and tubes. Not 40 but 20-25. Not insignificant.

Favorite Gear: Dimond | Cadex | Desoto Sport | Hoka One One
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Re: Pros on Gatorskins [The GMAN] [ In reply to ]
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You don't say? I obviously would have made that snarky comment on an internet forum without having looked that up before.

Quote:
Im not arguing that its huge low hanging fruit but its not 40 watts worth.

Again, I am not sure how this is getting lost in translation. I'm NOT arguing it isn't low hanging fruit. But 40 watts and we are potentially talking about course records being broken. It's physics man, not rocket science.
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Re: Pros on Gatorskins [McBoyler] [ In reply to ]
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McBoyler wrote:
You don't say? I obviously would have made that snarky comment on an internet forum without having looked that up before.

Quote:
Im not arguing that its huge low hanging fruit but its not 40 watts worth.


Again, I am not sure how this is getting lost in translation. I'm NOT arguing it isn't low hanging fruit. But 40 watts and we are potentially talking about course records being broken. It's physics man, not rocket science.


For sure,

I think people are talking about 40 watts total with helmet, frame, tires, etc "maybe" that puts him off the bike in the lead or at least close.

AP'S run is now getting close to FOP...maybe he gets there this year, not sure about the bike, hopefully Damon is working on something better.

Maurice
Last edited by: mauricemaher: Apr 23, 16 14:28
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Re: Pros on Gatorskins [Andrewmc] [ In reply to ]
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Honestly I don't know what he can ride now with a better setup. And yes in all modesty please teach me physics. I'm here to learn. It does continue to amaze me how many watts the pros ride and how "relatively" slow they go. I'm probably missing something. I'll fully admit that.

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Re: Pros on Gatorskins [cmscat50] [ In reply to ]
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soo.. another way of getting a better workout is slapping crappier tires on your bike so you can push more watts. then on race day you slap latex, 4000s, the carbon wheelset and go faster pushing the same watts?

is that what folks do?
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Re: Pros on Gatorskins [ahhchon] [ In reply to ]
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ahhchon wrote:
soo.. another way of getting a better workout is slapping crappier tires on your bike so you can push more watts. then on race day you slap latex, 4000s, the carbon wheelset and go faster pushing the same watts? is that what folks do?

Not sure what the pros do, but I have 1 set of training wheels and 1 set of race wheels. Training wheels: 32 hole mavic open pros with ultegra hubs and, yes, conti gatorskins in 25 mm (the biggest size that fits in my frame) with run of the mill butyl tubes. Race wheels: clincher zipp 808s with conti supersonic tires and latex tubes. I do indeed go lots faster on race day. Plus, it makes in easier to keep the race wheels ready and true.

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Re: Pros on Gatorskins [Andrewmc] [ In reply to ]
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Andrewmc wrote:
I dont think I suggested it was - I questioned whether whatever the number was, be it 1, 2, 10 or 40 or more if the point being made was that if someone, all things being equal, did all the correct things - position, latex, tires, drive chain etc, they could ride at that much lower power and finish in the same time.

All correct.

And, what elite athletes usually do is, is ride at the same power as they did with the crappy set up, but instead finish much faster.

That is, if winning and collecting a paycheck is the object of the game.

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Re: Pros on Gatorskins [DarkSpeedWorks] [ In reply to ]
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DarkSpeedWorks wrote:
ahhchon wrote:
soo.. another way of getting a better workout is slapping crappier tires on your bike so you can push more watts. then on race day you slap latex, 4000s, the carbon wheelset and go faster pushing the same watts? is that what folks do?


Not sure what the pros do, but I have 1 set of training wheels and 1 set of race wheels. Training wheels: 32 hole mavic open pros with ultegra hubs and, yes, conti gatorskins in 25 mm (the biggest size that fits in my frame) with run of the mill butyl tubes. Race wheels: clincher zipp 808s with conti supersonic tires and latex tubes. I do indeed go lots faster on race day. Plus, it makes in easier to keep the race wheels ready and true.

actually,

i run my conti4ks on the same exact rims as you. on race day i run conti4k's latex on easton carbon clinchers.

so i should put gatorskins (25mm if possible?) onto my training wheels so it'll force me to work even harder during training.

john
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Re: Pros on Gatorskins [mauricemaher] [ In reply to ]
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mauricemaher wrote:
You're right,

The important number isn't 20 or 40 or 60 watts it's 25-95$ thousand. His coach also likely lost 10% of that.

Maurice

You are right but that is only thinking of the prize money...I think the difference between 4th and even 3rd has got to be 100's of thousands in endorsements and publicity over the following 2-3 years. Podium=money, 4th=wooden medal and a lot of "you'll get em' next time conversations"..I know from experience there.

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Re: Pros on Gatorskins [ahhchon] [ In reply to ]
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ahhchon wrote:
soo.. another way of getting a better workout is slapping crappier tires on your bike so you can push more watts. then on race day you slap latex, 4000s, the carbon wheelset and go faster pushing the same watts?

is that what folks do?

That's what I do.....I train by power, so I don't really give a crap how fast I go when I ask training. My wheels are basic alloy rim, 2 / 3x spoked wheels. Gatorskins 25c and butyl tubes. Bullet proof wheels that I don't have to worry about when riding.

Race my aero wheels w/ tubular steel go on, I ride my target power and I feel like am flying. Sure, it is only a little mind game, but I love that feeling on race day. Gives me an extra edge, IMO.

But it is not about pushing "more watts" on y training rides....that is just training by speed, which is pointless. I train by the same number of watts, but on race day, the result is extra speed for the same watts.

Chicago Cubs - 2016 WORLD SERIES Champions!!!!

"If ever the time should come, when vain and aspiring men shall possess the highest seats in government, our country will stand in need of its experienced patriots to prevent its ruin." - Samuel Adams
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Re: Pros on Gatorskins [The GMAN] [ In reply to ]
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20-25 Watts is significant - 10w for me is an addition 0.3 mph ..... Lots of data to show this for my setup.... Not hard to determine what that means on a full IM distance.... Is huge.


The GMAN wrote:
McBoyler wrote:
I hope he isn't saying that.


Same weight, same or similar position on the bike, we assume he is using same helmet because of sponsor etc.

It ISN'T 40 watts LOL. Please show me the math. Another blatant example of great knowledge on Slowtwitch but an extraordinary lack of knowledge of basic Physics. You can't just backseat quarterback this thing and assume he has an extra 40 watts in his quiver and rides off the front solo to come into T2 5 minutes ahead. That's not how the pro race works. Sure we can argue energy expenditure and he runs a little bit better but that is so subjective.

Im not arguing that its huge low hanging fruit but its not 40 watts worth.


You can look up the watts saved via rolling resistance for latex vs butyl (2+ watts per tube) and 4000S vs Gators (8-10 watts per tire). So there's at least 20 watts on tires and tubes. Not 40 but 20-25. Not insignificant.
Last edited by: scca_ita: Apr 23, 16 21:54
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Re: Pros on Gatorskins [Power13] [ In reply to ]
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i do the same thing with strava ... if i'm doing a ride with serious efforts, i care about my watts on the segments i'm using. time is meaningless. i'm wearing flappy jackets, carrying a bunch of crap, on 25mm gatorskins, etc. speed means nothing to me.
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Re: Pros on Gatorskins [Jordano] [ In reply to ]
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Or he knew the Cannodale deal was on the horizon...sandbagged with the gators so he could throw down on the Cannondale in 2016. Sure it would be a gamble but makes a little sense in my conspiracy theorist mind.

Anybody look at previous year's photos to see if he was rocking them?
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Re: Pros on Gatorskins [7ofClubs] [ In reply to ]
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Perhaps he had a bad run with punctures? I've had a total of 3 flats in 4 years of racing, but all within 3 months of each other and two were a nightmare to change. Snapped a tyre lever and had an issue with a C02 tube so rode for 40kms on a tyre with about 20 psi! So I ended up with extreme puncture paranoia and leading up to an important 70.3, that was all I thought about,to the point I considered gatorskins. Slower, but peace of mind. I didn't in the end, I just made sure I carried extra CO2s and got better tyre levers.
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Re: Pros on Gatorskins [ahhchon] [ In reply to ]
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ahhchon wrote:

so i should put gatorskins (25mm if possible?) onto my training wheels so it'll force me to work even harder during training.

john

No, it will just force you to be slower. You can work as hard as you want (i.e. Whatever watts you want to put out) regardless of your set-up.

Putting slower tires on your bike will not "force" you to work more unless you are training by speed and want to match previous speed (which is not how you should train) or doing group rides and need to keep up with others. Otherwise, if you are gaining by power, you will just be slower for a given ride / power level.

Chicago Cubs - 2016 WORLD SERIES Champions!!!!

"If ever the time should come, when vain and aspiring men shall possess the highest seats in government, our country will stand in need of its experienced patriots to prevent its ruin." - Samuel Adams
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Re: Pros on Gatorskins [Power13] [ In reply to ]
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Power13 wrote:
ahhchon wrote:


so i should put gatorskins (25mm if possible?) onto my training wheels so it'll force me to work even harder during training.

john


No, it will just force you to be slower. You can work as hard as you want (i.e. Whatever watts you want to put out) regardless of your set-up.

Putting slower tires on your bike will not "force" you to work more unless you are training by speed and want to match previous speed (which is not how you should train) or doing group rides and need to keep up with others. Otherwise, if you are gaining by power, you will just be slower for a given ride / power level.

i train by power. but i do group rides on saturdays.
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Re: Pros on Gatorskins [Jordano] [ In reply to ]
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Jordano wrote:
mauricemaher wrote:
You're right,

The important number isn't 20 or 40 or 60 watts it's 25-95$ thousand. His coach also likely lost 10% of that.

Maurice


You are right but that is only thinking of the prize money...I think the difference between 4th and even 3rd has got to be 100's of thousands in endorsements and publicity over the following 2-3 years. Podium=money, 4th=wooden medal and a lot of "you'll get em' next time conversations"..I know from experience there.

Sure,

I was only speaking of "knowns" Just like when Kienle flatted and basically lost 40$k or when Stadler flatted and dropped out ("too much glue!!!")

I remember when Peter Reid won Kona the 2nd time IIRC, it was rumoured that he had equal prize money matching contracts from 4 sponsors, IE something like 500k instead of 100k or so.

Basically I heard this 3rd or 4th hand, I don't know Peter…I don't think he won half a million U.S.$ (keep in mind back then it would have been 650k$Can or so)

But…he won something more than 100k$ prize money for his second victory…Just a guess but maybe we could split the difference and say he made 250$ or so…I could be off, just a guess.

You're right after third people tend to care a bit less.

Maurice
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Re: Pros on Gatorskins [cmscat50] [ In reply to ]
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I think you replied to the wrong person - I'm just asking a question, not offering any information
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Re: Pros on Gatorskins [zedzded] [ In reply to ]
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zedzded wrote:
Perhaps he had a bad run with punctures? I've had a total of 3 flats in 4 years of racing, but all within 3 months of each other and two were a nightmare to change. Snapped a tyre lever and had an issue with a C02 tube so rode for 40kms on a tyre with about 20 psi! So I ended up with extreme puncture paranoia and leading up to an important 70.3, that was all I thought about,to the point I considered gatorskins. Slower, but peace of mind. I didn't in the end, I just made sure I carried extra CO2s and got better tyre levers.

If anyone has had a bad run with punctures, last years Kona aside, it has been Frodo.

Long Chile was a silly place.
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Re: Pros on Gatorskins [ahhchon] [ In reply to ]
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ahhchon wrote:
I run my conti4ks on the same exact rims as you. on race day i run conti4k's latex on easton carbon clinchers. so i should put gatorskins (25mm if possible?) onto my training wheels so it'll force me to work even harder during training.
No, not exactly.

I might consider pulling wide gatorskins on your training wheels, so you'll be putting the majority of your bike miles on inexpensive, comfortable, and flat resistant, if slow, wheels. Not because that will, by itself, "force you to work even harder during training", but because most of the time top speed is not that important during training. What is important is that you work (appropriately) hard. and also that you don't taco a $1000 aero wheel during a daily ride, especially when you really don't need to.

Advanced Aero TopTube Storage for Road, Gravel, & Tri...ZeroSlip & Direct-mount, made in the USA.
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Re: Pros on Gatorskins [DarkSpeedWorks] [ In reply to ]
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DarkSpeedWorks wrote:
ahhchon wrote:
I run my conti4ks on the same exact rims as you. on race day i run conti4k's latex on easton carbon clinchers. so i should put gatorskins (25mm if possible?) onto my training wheels so it'll force me to work even harder during training.
No, not exactly.

I might consider pulling wide gatorskins on your training wheels, so you'll be putting the majority of your bike miles on inexpensive, comfortable, and flat resistant, if slow, wheels.

Gatorskins are a lot of things.....comfortable is NOT one of them. They ride like schitt, IMO. But super-durable and dependable, so I deal with it.

Chicago Cubs - 2016 WORLD SERIES Champions!!!!

"If ever the time should come, when vain and aspiring men shall possess the highest seats in government, our country will stand in need of its experienced patriots to prevent its ruin." - Samuel Adams
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Re: Pros on Gatorskins [Power13] [ In reply to ]
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Power13 wrote:
Gatorskins are a lot of things.....comfortable is NOT one of them. They ride like schitt, IMO. But super-durable and dependable, so I deal with it.

Sure, all other things being equal.

But a 25mm gatorskin at 85 psi on a mavic open pro is more comfortable (to me) than a 20mm supersonic at 110psi on a stiff carbon zipp.

Advanced Aero TopTube Storage for Road, Gravel, & Tri...ZeroSlip & Direct-mount, made in the USA.
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Re: Pros on Gatorskins [DarkSpeedWorks] [ In reply to ]
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DarkSpeedWorks wrote:
Power13 wrote:
Gatorskins are a lot of things.....comfortable is NOT one of them. They ride like schitt, IMO. But super-durable and dependable, so I deal with it.


Sure, all other things being equal.

But a 25mm gatorskin at 85 psi on a mavic open pro is more comfortable (to me) than a 20mm supersonic at 110psi on a stiff carbon zipp.

why the hell are you riding 110psi?

i ride my 23mm conti 4ks at 90psi. if i ran 25mm gators, i might be riding 75 or 80..
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Re: Pros on Gatorskins [ahhchon] [ In reply to ]
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Sometimes. When running a 20mm tire on perfect asphalt.

Advanced Aero TopTube Storage for Road, Gravel, & Tri...ZeroSlip & Direct-mount, made in the USA.
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Re: Pros on Gatorskins [Power13] [ In reply to ]
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Power13 wrote:
Gatorskins are a lot of things.....comfortable is NOT one of them. They ride like schitt, IMO. But super-durable and dependable, so I deal with it.

Marathon supremes
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Re: Pros on Gatorskins [DarkSpeedWorks] [ In reply to ]
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DarkSpeedWorks wrote:
Power13 wrote:
Gatorskins are a lot of things.....comfortable is NOT one of them. They ride like schitt, IMO. But super-durable and dependable, so I deal with it.


Sure, all other things being equal.

But a 25mm gatorskin at 85 psi on a mavic open pro is more comfortable (to me) than a 20mm supersonic at 110psi on a stiff carbon zipp.

This

You can't fix stupid ..
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Re: Pros on Gatorskins [Mister944] [ In reply to ]
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Difference of about 9 watts

http://www.bicyclerollingresistance.com/road-bike-reviews/compare/continental-gatorskin-2015-vs-continental-grand-prix-4000s-ii-latex-tube-2014


Remember - It's important to be comfortable in your own skin... because it turns out society frowns on wearing other people's
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Re: Pros on Gatorskins [Guffaw] [ In reply to ]
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per wheel at 18mph.....so on the order of 24 watts for 2 wheels at ~24mph for Potts. That's some really sweet low hanging fruit.

Hugh

Genetics load the gun, lifestyle pulls the trigger.
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Re: Pros on Gatorskins [sciguy] [ In reply to ]
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Sorry for the potentially dumb question, but why would you multiply it by 2...i KNOW there are 2 wheels, but they are both attached to the same bike. So if you ran 1 gator in front and a 4000s in the back, the rear tire won't speed up or be faster.
..
I am aware that the smart choice in my hypothetical situation would be to put the 4000 on the front.
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Re: Pros on Gatorskins [littlefoot] [ In reply to ]
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littlefoot wrote:
Sorry for the potentially dumb question, but why would you multiply it by 2...i KNOW there are 2 wheels, but they are both attached to the same bike. So if you ran 1 gator in front and a 4000s in the back, the rear tire won't speed up or be faster.
..
I am aware that the smart choice in my hypothetical situation would be to put the 4000 on the front.

That's not how it works. It's less energy used to roll the tire.

Favorite Gear: Dimond | Cadex | Desoto Sport | Hoka One One
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Re: Pros on Gatorskins [Guffaw] [ In reply to ]
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doesn't that go completely against information that flow published and tom A has mentioned on his site? i was under the impression that higher tire pressure will actually increase rolling resistance and the sweet spot was in the 90-100psi range (weight dependent).
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Re: Pros on Gatorskins [flyrunride] [ In reply to ]
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flyrunride wrote:
THE HUMANITY!!!!


hey maybe this year he'll train on something better for him. For pros, every second counts....

Utter insanity. You'd think he'd never heard of ST

_____________________________________
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Re: Pros on Gatorskins [littlefoot] [ In reply to ]
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littlefoot wrote:
Sorry for the potentially dumb question, but why would you multiply it by 2...i KNOW there are 2 wheels, but they are both attached to the same bike. So if you ran 1 gator in front and a 4000s in the back, the rear tire won't speed up or be faster.
..
I am aware that the smart choice in my hypothetical situation would be to put the 4000 on the front.

Actually if you switched from running 2 Gatorskins while pedaling at a certain wattage to one Gatorskin plus a 4000IIs on either the front or rear you would move faster on those same watts provided your position, the road grade and surface remained the same as well as wind. Showing the wattage required per wheel allows one to easily look at just the case you're ringing up since the values are additive.

Hugh

Genetics load the gun, lifestyle pulls the trigger.
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Re: Pros on Gatorskins [ahhchon] [ In reply to ]
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ahhchon wrote:


doesn't that go completely against information that flow published and tom A has mentioned on his site? i was under the impression that higher tire pressure will actually increase rolling resistance and the sweet spot was in the 90-100psi range (weight dependent).

Sortof. As tire pressure goes up, the resistance goes down. However that is only as measured on a roller. A roller that is perfectly smooth.

That changes when you are on an actual road that is not made of a smooth metal surface, but is instead bumpy, pitted etc. You lose time bouncing around on a tire that is too "hard" for your weight. Your best bet is to look at the power required for the tire at the tire pressure that is ideal for you. If you are too light to ride at 120, then the fact that the rolling resistance is lower at 120 vs 110 doesn't apply in your situation.
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Re: Pros on Gatorskins [7ofClubs] [ In reply to ]
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Exactly what I was thinking!!

NCCP certified Comp coach
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Re: Pros on Gatorskins [ahhchon] [ In reply to ]
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ahhchon wrote:
soo.. another way of getting a better workout is slapping crappier tires on your bike so you can push more watts. then on race day you slap latex, 4000s, the carbon wheelset and go faster pushing the same watts?

is that what folks do?


Those two phrases above are completely incongruous if you are paying attention to the metrics that matter in training--power, time, and (at least for me) heart rate. If you're focusing on mileage and/or speed, then sure, but you're also focusing on the wrong things.

Edit: I realize now like five people already said this. Sorry.
Last edited by: kileyay: Apr 25, 16 10:31
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Re: Pros on Gatorskins [kileyay] [ In reply to ]
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Maybe he's worried about course sabotage w/ thumbtacks. It's happened before.
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Re: Pros on Gatorskins [alfonso132] [ In reply to ]
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alfonso132 wrote:
Maybe he's worried about course sabotage w/ thumbtacks. It's happened before.

Finally....someone hit it. If someone [Andy] sabotaged the course with thumbtacks....who looks like the genious (and winner) for riding the gators? Something to look for in 2016.
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Re: Pros on Gatorskins [dprocket] [ In reply to ]
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dprocket wrote:
alfonso132 wrote:
Maybe he's worried about course sabotage w/ thumbtacks. It's happened before.


Finally....someone hit it. If someone [Andy] sabotaged the course with thumbtacks....who looks like the genious (and winner) for riding the gators? Something to look for in 2016.

Even if he got a flat from a tack and changed the tube himself, he would still be faster on gp4000sii

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Re: Pros on Gatorskins [sp1ke] [ In reply to ]
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When I switched to GP 4 season it instantly felt like I lost 50 watts. I can't imagine racing at that level on these.
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