The answer to the self-control question is clearly yes. I think drugs that affect appetite are probably going to be the solution to the obesity epidemic since that's far more practical and easier than changing our modern environment that has led to the obesity epidemic.

 

Interesting that they would set an upper BMI limit to qualify. I wonder if there's an increased risk during the implant procedure for those over bmi 45

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Take a short break from ST and read my blog:
http://tri-banter.blogspot.com/

Not to mention all these people getting gastric bypass or the sleeve. My Cousin got the sleeve. She has to follow a strict diet and is doing well with it. Make me wonder why you couldn't have followed the same thing before surgery???

Food intake doesn't make people fat.

BarryP told me so and if you disagree you're a heartless jerk and hater of science. He knows people that never at all and they morbidly obese.

It's america's fault because burn too many fossil fuels.

Why are these idiots wasting time trying limit food intake. That clearly doesn't work.

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Civilize the mind, but make savage the body.

- Chinese proverb

decreasing hunger signals and making people feel full.

If I stopped eating when I was full I wouldn't be fat.

Also, since many people overeat due to emotional reasons will they eventually link this to the brain to remove a dopamine response to food?

Now that I could use. I don't generally eat because I'm hungary, in fact I typically don't get hungry and even if I get hungry it goes away pretty quickly. I eat when I'm tired, stressed, anxious, pissed, bored and those all over ride "I'm full". I also eat very fast.

~Matt

Yes. I wish I could control my need to post/reply to the LR.

Are you 12? That's not even close to what I said.

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-----------------------------Baron Von Speedypants
-----------------------------RunTraining articles here:
http://forum.slowtwitch.com/...runtraining;#1612485

I have figured out how to lose weight. The past 36 hours I have been puking out both ends. I am down 8 lbs.

Best diet ever.

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How does Danny Hart sit down with balls that big?

Is that the Tijuana Diet?

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Civilize the mind, but make savage the body.

- Chinese proverb

When I had my first daughter I forgot to eat for about two weeks and lost 12 pounds. This time around it was only 3.

The problem with your 1st response is people eat faster than their body tells them they are full. So essentially they over eat before they get the feeling of being full.

I'm just reporting the news.

My sources say that was a direct quote.

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Civilize the mind, but make savage the body.

- Chinese proverb

Similar, yes.

I puked in the shower today. Thats a first for me.

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How does Danny Hart sit down with balls that big?

Have you had to sit on the tub so you could puke in the toilet and shit in the tub?

We left a very big tip at that hotel.

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I'm beginning to think that we are much more fucked than I thought.

Only prescription drugs that do that will be allowed. Something like ephedra that is cheap and over the counter must be banned.

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I'm beginning to think that we are much more fucked than I thought.

No, I have control over when the bum leaks. It's just the mouth that I can't control when it erupts.

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How does Danny Hart sit down with balls that big?

My ex girlfriend drank too much tequila one night and I had to go pick her up from a friend's house. When I got her she barfed on the lawn and made quite a mess of herself. I put her in the shower where she barfed again.

I cleaned her up real good and then scored me some non-consensual anal.

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Civilize the mind, but make savage the body.

- Chinese proverb

That's to be expected. BMI over 45 typically has a bunch of other comorbidities associated and it makes many treatments very difficult. For instance many of the drugs approved to deal with obesity lately also require that blood pressure is under control, and not too high, so it actually prevents those who are very obese to use them as they often have out of control BP.

I have a neighbor that had the bypass about 2 yrs ago. Lost about 150 lbs. You couldn't even recognize him. Fast forward to present and he has gained maybe 100 of it back. Amazing.

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I'll be what I am
A solitary man

It goes well beyond self-control. You can look at the book mindless eating by Brian Wansik at Cornell to get an idea of how pernicious this all is.

The problem with your 1st response is people eat faster than their body tells them they are full

Well that's certainly part of the problem...but then I don't stop eating when I feel full either.

~Matt

Oh God, I think I just pulled a muscle laughing so hard picturing that scenario.

For some reason, with the name David, I thought you were male.

Mark my words....the future of weight loss treatment will be fecal transplants.

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who's smarter than you're? i'm!

Why wouldn't you just do both in the tub? Seems like an awful lot of work to ass in the tub and bend over to the can.

We used to have guys in college that would be too drunk to stand to pee, so they would sit down. Then yack onto the floor. (One even broke the ceramic bowl). Then, sadly enough, passout by falling forward into said yack. Since it happened more than once, we had a name for the behavior, "Pulling an Elvis". The worse part about it was that the first person do discover the most recent Elvis was responsible for cleanup, including re-pantsing the King. The King had to pay some sort of restitution, typically in the form of ethanol and encouraging the cycle to start over.

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Take a short break from ST and read my blog:
http://tri-banter.blogspot.com/

It's the Canadian spelling.

Geeze people. Sit on the toilet with garbage can between knees.

I thought everyone knew that.

When I was in college and got food poisoning I used a beer funnel to puke and shite simultaneously on the toilet. Best of all worlds.

So you're a rapist?

She was dressed provocatively...

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Civilize the mind, but make savage the body.

- Chinese proverb

I hear they all are.

David never claimed to have given birth to his daughter : )

Because I knew I was going to barf. I sat down waiting for it. I had no idea I was going to shit until the barfing started. Then neither would stop.

Undercooked clams are a great over the counter weight loss aid.

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I'm beginning to think that we are much more fucked than I thought.

I'm personally on the band-wagon war against sugar. I think it's addictive and it's in just about everything that's prepared for you. So it may not be about self control just like meth addicts don't have a self control problem. They have an addiction. But meth can't be legally bought on literally every street corner. (at least not where I live)

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The best pace is a suicide pace, and today is a good day to die. -Steve Prefontaine

So you think. Drugs of all types are probably in more places than sugar these days.

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DISH is how we do it.

You're probably right.

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The best pace is a suicide pace, and today is a good day to die. -Steve Prefontaine

"The key to weight loss is a will power free way to consume less calories."


That is a quote from me over in the "don't make fun of fat people" thread.
This device is just another way to skin that cat.

Everything Matt said, except I've gotten the eat slowly part down. But stress and unhappiness with many things means eating crappy food (chips are my downfall). That, couple with sitting too much at work, working too much, little to no exercise and it's a downward spiral.

It would be nice to be as perfect as most of you with impeccable willpower.

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clm
Nashville, TN
https://twitter.com/ironclm | http://ironclm.typepad.com

Will power is nice, but for me the solution is to not bring anything into the house that I don't want to / shouldn't eat. I love chips, but if there are none in my house I can't eat them. Same with ice cream, cookies etc. If they are in my house though, I'd eat them.

I try to do just one big shopping trip a week. Usually on Saturday after my big ride AND after eating a nice lunch. That way I'm not roaming around the grocery store hungry and buying a bunch of crap I shouldn't be eating.

There are few things as dangerous as stopping off at the store on your way home from work when you are hungry.

From a weight control perspective I'm not a big fan of eating out. I always have the best of intentions. And then they bring out the bread. For my whole professional life I've always brought a lunch and eaten it at my desk. Initially for money concerns, but I actually prefer it and I save a shit ton of money and eat better by not eating out. Everything that I plan to eat at work comes to work with me that day. No vending machine or burrito truck, or mini mart stop. No choices, no will power necessary.

Basically my solution is to only be required to use my will power once a week or so as opposed to every single meal.

Granted it helps to be a little OCD and happy to eat the same thing pretty much every single day though.

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Kevin

http://kevinmetcalfe.dreamhosters.com
My Strava

Yeah, you can eat right every meal for two weeks, be diligent, count your calories, maintain a manageable deficit. Then you go out with your friends on Saturday night and eat/drink 8000 calories. Whoops! You're still fat.

I'm similar. My willpower to resist sweets and chips is pretty weak, so I try to just not purchase them. The problem is that my wife purchases both, although the fortunate side to having celiacs is that almost all of the sweets she buys are things I can't eat anyway and she irregularly purchases chips. Without discipline and work, I'd be heavy again and have, fortunately, been able to avoid becoming heavy again by keeping a focus on it. When life isn't overly stressful, it's not difficult for me at all; when it is stressful it's easier to let my guard down when shopping and pick up extra stuff that's not on my list.

One thing that helps is making my entire work week's worth of lunches on Sunday afternoon, and if I don't have time to make enough for the week I go and buy two dinners at a local restaurant and split it into 4 meals for lunches or make something quick and easy like a frittata. My nightly ritual is to get my lunch, breakfast, and all snacks ready to go, down to loading the espresso machine so I'm not tempted to stop by a coffee shop and end up consuming junk I didn't plan on. I still pick up take out for dinner too often, but almost always eat only half of it.

It's not easy all the time, but I feel a heck of a lot better as I'm disciplined. Sometimes people just don't have the willpower to try to set their habits right, which is unfortunate. Knowing how difficult it can be to stick with it, I completely empathize with those who struggle and end up using food as a drug or coping tool.

Kevin - you live in California so I'll say nicely - STFU. [pink, almost]

I get what you are saying. But when you are so unhappy and overworked and it's a freaking Arctic zone, then everything feels pointless. And the grocery store is two blocks away (on the way home).

I know - I either need to decide to be happy here or get the hell out. If a large chunk of cash fell into my lap, that would make my decision easier.

But hey - I saw Harry Connick Jr. tonight and that made me happy. As did the fact the theatre sold wine "doubles"!

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clm
Nashville, TN
https://twitter.com/ironclm | http://ironclm.typepad.com

Or the people who celebrate the fact they worked out with a big protein smoothie loaded with juice and calories. Every time. "But I'm working out four days a week!"

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Strength coach and post rehab injury specialist. Check out my blog at http://www.paradigmfitnessottawa.com.

I guess this show how much people differ.

If I stopped eating when I was full I would probably be morbidly obese, or close to it. I am almost always hungry. Just yesterday despite having a rather large lunch, a few hours later I was so hungry I was on the point of drooling. I broke down and got a small bag of baked chips.

I've gained weight in the off season as is usual, I am up to 175 lbs at 5' 7". I usually race at 155-160 so I have a bit of work to do. I know I should race at much less than that, but I am not sure it would help me achieve any of my race goals anyway.

Not sure I would have done it that way around but then I wasn't there so who am I to judge :)

Now that is the "Plastics !" of today.

Yeah, kind of hard to believe they can't develop a drug to reduce appetite. Well, they did have one, Meridia, but it got pulled, I think due to increased risk of heart attack and stroke..

Because before surgery lack of will power allowed her to still eat. After getting the sleeve, if she eats too much, she'll barf it back up (or something like that) as it won't allow too much food.

Yep.

As I became more serious(defined as: read shitty magazines like triathlete, runner's world, bicycling, etc) about working out, I was like 'oh, I have terrible recovery habits. I rarely eat after working out. I should start doing that." And yep, that snack/protein bar/$1 of chocolate milk was my calorie deficit and I stopped losing weight.

She would lucky to barf up food if she eats too much. Most people who have any type of weightloss surgery end up regaining weight because they return to their poor eating habits.
I have a friend who has friends who gained weight just to have one of the surgeries. They lost a lot of weight then put it back on. My friend did the same with that balloon gimmick and still weighs 100lbs. more than I do. The other day she said the surgery does not work. Since I got tired of her talking about it, kept my mouth shut. The surgery may work but she didn't and doesn't yet still cannot understand why she is still obese. Binge eating, laziness and lack of want (not willpower) are whAt she has going against her. One day I told her that she needed to admit to herself she loves being obese and sick. She did not argue because it is true. It is a crutch.

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DISH is how we do it.

I wonder how those who have the gastric bypass surgery gain the weight back after losing. Its a permanent surgery that kind of expedites food through your system.
The sleeve/band on the other hand, can be removed. So I guess if someone loses weight and then has it removed, then yeah, they are likely to gain all their weight back.

I believe weight regain occurs in upward of 50% of all surgery patients within the first five years. That is a lot of people with wasted hopes of looking like they did in high school or when they married. To me, it seems easier to attempt to lose weight without an invasive procedure that can possibly lead to even worse health issues.

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DISH is how we do it.

It's probably still a higher percentage of success compared to 'eat less, eat better and get your butt to the gym. But focus on the food.'.

^^^THIS^^^


All too often, as a Nutrition Coach and Personal Trainer, I see people undo their hard work with a night of partying.

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DFL > DNF > DNS

IDK, if (and thats a big IF) I eat right, I just can't binge that bad anymore.
Having said that, I dont drink and rarely eat takeaway anyway (wife is too good of a cook!)

AS far as the direction of the rest of this thread, BIL's new GF has had lapland or gastric sleeve or some shit (cant remember because I just dont care) and she has put on almost all of the 100+ pounds she lost after surgery.
She claims she can't eat much anymore, but she out ate me more than once, and she frely admits what she no longer eats, she makes up for with alcohol

This!


But them if every damn restaurant around sells crap food and people don't even cook at home what is keeping them hungry going to do?

Do people seriously have so little self control that they need a remote control implanted in them to tell them not to eat?

I always like to think the best of people, but with regards to the epidemic of over-weightness and obesity that has spread across North America ( and much of the West), I am starting to think it linked directly to ignorance and laziness.

Yes, I know it's complicated and there are some that have some challenges, but for the vast majority of those afflicted, better food choices, and less of that food, and more physical activity, would yield significant positive results! How hard can it be?

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Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog

That won't solve the real problem. People aren't educated about nutrition. They eat crap. That's how we have people that are both morbidly obese and malnourished at the same time.

This device will take a person from fat and malnourished to skinny and malnourished.

I doubt very many obese people got obese by eating too many fruits and veggies. They got obese by eating too much junk, mostly sugar and fats. They would continue to eat junk, just less of it.

Yup.

http://www.cell.com/...1550-4131(17)30559-4

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who's smarter than you're? i'm!

A while back I read the "Dorito Effect", which had the basic thesis that we overeat because of taste. Modern food is super engineered to taste good to us. The book has flaws as does his thesis, but I think there is some truth to it. People are very capable of eating well beyond feeling full. We crave taste, not the feeling of being full.

Just get in the shower and stay standing throughout. Minimizes the mess. I had one of those 9# weight loss nights about 2 years ago. Hoping I’m good on that until past age 50.

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If I don't, who will? -Me
It's like being bipolar in opinion is a requirement around here. -TripleThreat

I think a good Petri dish are the Pacific Islanders. Not long ago (maybe around the 40's?) they were almost uniformly slender fish-and-vegetable eaters, even given food surpluses.

Then we introduced them to SPAM and mac-and-cheese and almost overnight they developed insane obesity rates, approaching 90% on some islands.

I'd think there's some genetic angle. Because other cultures/races were exposed to the powers of SPAM and mac-and-cheese, and were basically "meh." And I don't think it's just education/ignorance. They probably weren't "educated" on nutrition before SPAM. Some of these processed foods are like drugs to some people, and not others.

The ones it has no effect on sure do like to congratulate themselves on their superior self-control and education, though. :)

Just gotta quote this baby for posterity...

Do you have a (full time) job? Kids? I've pulled that kind of burn rate off for a season a few times, but it's not sustainable long-term without taking too much away from my other obligations (it's also a shit-ton harder to do year-round where I live).

I know a few folks who seem to manage that kinda life, but they either don't have kids or they have some mysterious source of income (either come from family money, or maybe hit paydirt with some kind of patent or got in early w/ a successful corporate startup that got bought by one of the big boys, etc) ~ or both, since they evidently have all kinds of time to do long rides during the week and take multiple 'training camp'-type vacations during the year.

Going back to the food angle... Besides the emotional crutch-type behavior, a lot of it also boils down to convenience in eating a lot more restaurant/take-out or prepared meals. Time is absolutely a factor for many of us and eating habits reflect it to a huge degree; it's easy to see how our family's typical meal line-ups ebb & flow throughout the year depending on school & sports schedules (there are long stretches where we might only sit down together for dinner at home once per week, if that). One of the things I really love is having a free day or at least a whole afternoon to prepare a really good meal, but that is a rare luxury.

Because if you’re severely overweight you’d probabaly be dead by the end of the week trying to work that many calories off.

The problem with obesity is that it takes a long time to get into good enough shape to be able to workout hard enough to get real weight loss.

A 50 year old that weighs 290 and hasn’t worked out since they were 21 can’t start dropping 3 hour workouts to burn that many calories. So it take a real good reason normally for people to mentally deal with the time that you need to get in good enough shape to be able to actually start losing the weight.

It’s not much different than when athletes take a few months off. You have to train to get back to being able to train. A few months off training is way different than 30 years of not working out.

We?

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Civilize the mind, but make savage the body.

- Chinese proverb

Plenty of drugs exist that affect appetite. One of them is a human hormone, HCG. It's easy enough to get, though most people and physicians and the like who have studied it say that it's only effective via injection. I don't know if I would want to shoot myself up daily with an insulin needle and a small amount of this stuff, for 30 to 40 days.

What it is, is human chorionic gonadotropin, which pregnant females make and which seems to shut off hunger signals quite effectively, according to online research. I don't know if the caloric level recommended by the most traditional form of this diet is reasonable, because it only seems to call for 500 calories per day and it seems to me that you would most likely put the weight you lose right back on after tapering off this stuff.

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"Politics is just show business for ugly people."

Pretty sure SPAM and processed mac & cheese are American goodness. In fact I think it was American military presence on the islands around WWI/II that kicked off the love affair.

I love both, by the way. Had me some SPAM just last week.

Well, I wasn’t in the Hawaii during that time period and neither were you.

So why would you say “we” gabe them SPAM. I didn’t, you didn’t.

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Civilize the mind, but make savage the body.

- Chinese proverb

About one a year my kids will mention SPAM, I'll buy a can and it'll sit in the pantry until I'm tired of looking at it. I then slice it, fry it, and eat every last good bite.

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The secret of a long life is you try not to shorten it.
-Nobody

"We" used figuratively to mean "American/Western culture. Americana cuisine" Not literally you and me.

Sort of like "We gave the world McDonald's" even though I didn't literally open a franchise in Hawaii, etc.

So “we” means some people in the past that you and I have absolutely zero connection to other than we are citizens of the same country?

Ok.

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Civilize the mind, but make savage the body.

- Chinese proverb

Not only that they then have calcium iron B12 deficiencies and who knows what other deficiencies for life. Locally we have had a few pts die of pulmonary emboli after the surgery.

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They constantly try to escape from the darkness outside and within
Dreaming of systems so perfect that no one will need to be good T.S. Eliot

Are we really not going to talk about the, "comb your hair once a week and sleep in your clothes" diet plan?

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"People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realize how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world."

That's racist!

Do you often answer questions not addressed to you?

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Civilize the mind, but make savage the body.

- Chinese proverb

Did you and your hubby introduce SPAM and mac&cheese to Pacific Islanders between WWI and WWII?

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Civilize the mind, but make savage the body.

- Chinese proverb

I'm going with this. What's the point of hunger control if we don't stop eating when we're satiated? Who cares about nutrition when there's brownies and ice cream in front of you?

This must have momentarily made it past the BLeP AI bots. Take it to the other thread while you still can!

i was also amazed this one snuck by

That’s what you get when you visit NJ without getting shots prior