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ASEA water? Anyone using this? Reviews?
 
A friend gave me 2 bottles of ASEA water and said its great for athletes and you will see some small improvements in your times if you use it regularily. I'd never even heard of it and did a little google work on it and have read mixed reviews. One thing that really stood out is that Rich Roll has researched it extensively including visiting the HQ in utah and he believes it helps in recovery and energy levels. Anyone else any thoughts? Or tried it? Its basically distilled water with sodium and chloride added.

"I swim because that's how I get to ride my bike."

 
Re: ASEA water? Anyone using this? Reviews? [Dopers.Suck] [ In reply to ]
 
It is snake oil. The theory behind it makes sense, but the stuff itself is bullshit.


Michael J. Pelechaty
Brewer, Black Box Brewing Co.

"Yeah, I was depressed for a little while, but then I remembered how awesome I am."
 
Re: ASEA water? Anyone using this? Reviews? [Cheddar] [ In reply to ]
 
I'm a huge fan of Rich Roll, who I believe is sponsored by Asea. I have never found him a person that would recommend something that is bullshit, but I have a hard time believing this stuff.

---
KyleKranz.com
Win a pair of SKORA Running Shoes!
 
Re: ASEA water? Anyone using this? Reviews? [Dopers.Suck] [ In reply to ]
 
"HQ in utah"

And there is your bullshit tip off. Utah is ground zero for multi level marketing bullshit.

customerjon @gmail.com is where information happens.
 
Re: ASEA water? Anyone using this? Reviews? [Dopers.Suck] [ In reply to ]
 
I really feel depressed when I realize that such a large chunk of our population is so scientifically illiterate that they believe this pseudo-scientific dribble sufficiently to make them into viable businesses. This product is no different than the "ion-balance bracelets", the "Oxygen Enriched" water, energy channeling crystals or 19th C. snake oil.


These products use scientific terms & language to suggest and imply some benefit: i.e. "Moreover, the contents of Asea water has been tested by third-party sources and they have confirmed that Asea contains the exact same molecules as found in each of our cells. " (ASEA website)

While this is technically true of ASEA water, it is also true of the gutter water in Calcutta. Maybe I can bottle that and sell it to the gullible?
 
Re: ASEA water? Anyone using this? Reviews? [ipull400watts] [ In reply to ]
 
I laughed when my friend gave it to me but after stumbling on Rich Rolls long write up about how skeptical he was and after using it he noticed some obvious changes , it really made me wonder. If you know anything about Rich, he's offered products all the time from company's that want to sponsor him but he's extremely anal about what he puts into his body! This really made me think, I might try the 2 bottles and see for myself, it can't hurt anything:)

"I swim because that's how I get to ride my bike."

 
Re: ASEA water? Anyone using this? Reviews? [Dopers.Suck] [ In reply to ]
 
I call BS. I went to their web site. It is a beautifully created with all sorts of science terms being applied in new and creative ways. Redox Signaling molecules.... That does sound sciency! (It even has a Wiki entry on it so it must be true)


So what exactly are there Redox Signaling Molecules that Asea claims to have in their water? Are they complex organic molecules? Please give me a description: molecular weight. composition, etc. I want to know what I'm ingesting - is it some reactive organic chemical? Gasoline, formaldehyde and PCB are also reactive organic chemicals... also they are mutagens, carcinogens and teratogens like many complex organic molecules....


And what is the metabolic process that gets these "RSM"s to the mitochondria after we drink them? They pass through the gastro-intestinal system and are distributed to the right cells? How?


If there was ANY truth behind this bio-chemical ASEA process they would be seeking FDA approval and either selling / licensing it to one of the big pharma companies for $Billions or simply going into production themselves. As it stands they hide behind a 'health supplement' label. This is a way to sell unregulated substances and to make some suggestions on possible health 'benefits' with out the need to actually have proof of their effectiveness (i.e. peer reviewed, double blind studies).


As for Rich Roll, well he is an incredible athlete... but 1.) he's sponsored (paid) by these guys 2.) he's no bio-chemist


I'm pro business and for making money but I get upset when someone takes advantage of people's desire to be healthy and fleeces them.
 
Re: ASEA water? Anyone using this? Reviews? [mgalanter] [ In reply to ]
 
Being in med school we've gone through this in depth through different chemistry and biology classes:

A Redox in molecular equations simply means that specific atoms are losing electrons (oxidation) while others gain electrons (reduction) through the reaction. This literally would not have any profound impact on performance what-so-ever.

Stop buying into this pseudo-science stuff. It is a psychological marketing scheme that has been around for decades

Edit* You asked about how this effects the mitochondria. The website is simply eluding that your body will process ATP (adenosine triphosphate) faster. This is what all living cells need for energy.

Sorry I don't have time to answer those questions more specifically.


< Quitting Isn't An Option >

Last edited by: CJS25: Mar 1, 12 3:40
 
Re: ASEA water? Anyone using this? Reviews? [CJS25] [ In reply to ]
 
There seem to be some misunderstandings about ASEA on this page. I was introduced to ASEA 4 months ago by someone who is a leader in health in the UK and internationally and who has taught me about natural supplements of different kinds and cellular healing. I have used various supplements on myself and clients for several years and generally have a good sense of what they do. Please note, I am not here to sell ASEA. There are no links within this thread to a company site. My intention is purely to clarify the facts about what ASEA is and does.

1. ASEA's ingredients are salt water and redox signaling molecules as proven by third party testing. 15 kinds of RSMs are in ASEA although the specific composition is not made public. It was thought impossible that these molecules would be stabilised ( previously they just returned to the salt water state). It has taken 16 years of foundational research to get to this point and the atomic physicist Gary Samuelson took 3 years to stabilise the molecules. This is why ASEA is groundbreaking.
2. If you look on Pubmed for info about RSMs , you will see the crucial role they play in health. It is a key role as we would die without these molecules within minutes and after the age of 12 , their numbers begin decreasing. They exist in every cell and they repair and replace cells and also protect them. If you spray ASEA on a burn, watch how it heals much quicker than usual.
3. Athletes are using ASEA because it improves endurance and recovery as prelim VT tests have shown. Many elite athletes are now using ASEA because it is helping them in competition and boosting energy levels. Rich Roll is one of those athletes as is Olympian Sinjin Smith. Gold medallist Eric Heiden and BMC team doctor Max Testa are now doing a clinical trial witn ASEA with results hopefully out soon.
4. The ASEA founders are promoting ASEA because they know the world desperately needs it and because it works on a cellular level it can benefit everybody. With reference to your comment about the FDA, the founders were in fact offered a multi million dollar deal by a top drug company for the patent, but they then discovered that the company was going to buy the patent and shelve it. In other words, the public would not get the product. They also felt that as people automatically wanted to share ASEA because it was changing their health, that they could spread the wealth through networking it. Even though network marketing was a new area for them, they did not want it in the hands of a drug company.

If you have a high level of mistrust with MLM companies, then nothing will convince you otherwise. I could be talking rubbish. Ultimately, you will only know whether ASEA works by actually taking it for several months yourself. 2 bottles will not necessarily give you an indication of results. Sometimes, people's energy levels improve immediately but for others it can take 6 months as stagnant energy inside the cells is cleared and cells are replaced. If you do take ASEA, it's worth monitoring not just the major illness/ area you wish to track. Often ASEA works at more subtle levels as well so be aware of all changes that occur after taking it.
 
Re: ASEA water? Anyone using this? Reviews? [sealover] [ In reply to ]
 
Wow, seallover really knows what he's talking bout. 19 years of research and involvement of an atomic physicist! Sign me up!
 
Re: ASEA water? Anyone using this? Reviews? [sealover] [ In reply to ]
 
Wow. This post has everything!

sealover wrote:
1. ASEA's ingredients are salt water and redox signaling molecules as proven by third party testing. 15 kinds of RSMs are in ASEA although the specific composition is not made public

OK- can we see the testing? What did this "testing" consist of - what was the significance of the testing - did they just show what the water contained, or actual efficacy of the water in terms of your claims?

Quote:
It was thought impossible that these molecules would be stabilised ( previously they just returned to the salt water state). It has taken 16 years of foundational research to get to this point and the atomic physicist Gary Samuelson took 3 years to stabilise the molecules. This is why ASEA is groundbreaking.

The "salt water state?" What does that even mean? It really helps your scientific credibility to not make up phrases. Also, why would an atomic physicist have anything to do with this? You'd want a chemist, specifically a synthetic chemist, to do this work.

Quote:
2. If you look on Pubmed for info about RSMs , you will see the crucial role they play in health. It is a key role as we would die without these molecules within minutes and after the age of 12 , their numbers begin decreasing. They exist in every cell and they repair and replace cells and also protect them. If you spray ASEA on a burn, watch how it heals much quicker than usual.

OK - just because you ingest something doesn't mean that it gets absorbed or incorporated. Why would your proprietary compound not simply pass right through or get nuked by first pass metabolism?

Quote:
3. Athletes are using ASEA because it improves endurance and recovery as prelim VT tests have shown. Many elite athletes are now using ASEA because it is helping them in competition and boosting energy levels. Rich Roll is one of those athletes as is Olympian Sinjin Smith. Gold medallist Eric Heiden and BMC team doctor Max Testa are now doing a clinical trial witn ASEA with results hopefully out soon.
Can we see these tests? Also, everyone understands that pro endorsements are not equivalent to peer-reviewed research, and they never have been. Clinical trial? I couldn't find anything on clinicaltrials.gov, but perhaps it's not registered.

Quote:
4. The ASEA founders are promoting ASEA because they know the world desperately needs it and because it works on a cellular level it can benefit everybody. With reference to your comment about the FDA, the founders were in fact offered a multi million dollar deal by a top drug company for the patent, but they then discovered that the company was going to buy the patent and shelve it. In other words, the public would not get the product. They also felt that as people automatically wanted to share ASEA because it was changing their health, that they could spread the wealth through networking it. Even though network marketing was a new area for them, they did not want it in the hands of a drug company.

Oh, okay. You are the good guys! Going against big, bad pharma. Evil pharmaceutical companies that just want your money and so they hide all of the miracle cures so that they can ensure they never make it to market!

Using conspiracy theories to sell your snake oil? I shouldn't have expected better.

Quote:
If you have a high level of mistrust with MLM companies, then nothing will convince you otherwise. I could be talking rubbish. Ultimately, you will only know whether ASEA works by actually taking it for several months yourself. 2 bottles will not necessarily give you an indication of results. Sometimes, people's energy levels improve immediately but for others it can take 6 months as stagnant energy inside the cells is cleared and cells are replaced. If you do take ASEA, it's worth monitoring not just the major illness/ area you wish to track. Often ASEA works at more subtle levels as well so be aware of all changes that occur after taking it.
Wrong. Data will convince me. But since there are no data, I am convinced you're talking rubbish (besides the fact that you're making up scientific terms in an attempt to sound intelligent).

Wait, you say the only way to be sure is to buy a ton and use it!? Count me in! That definitely doesn't sound like BS.

Also: Stagnant energy? What the hell does that mean?
 
Re: ASEA water? Anyone using this? Reviews? [sealover] [ In reply to ]
 
Let's see. Sign up for the forum and your first post is defense of ASEA. Not at all fishy? I too have read the marketing and pages of research and have to say its well packaged, however I can't get past the fact that it is multi-level marketing, based in Utah, and the only review praising it as the life water to end all searches for the fountain of youth comes from a sponsired athlete. The Plecebo effect works like nothing else does in about 20% of people, proving the power of the brain, and it may very likely be what RR is experiencing. Would love to see before and after bloodwork that shows improvement in markers of inflammation etc.. but a controlled cloinical environment is necessary to account for confounding variables of diet, supplementation etc. that many folks would also be doing that would contribute to positive results.

Also, very annoying, is a person I know who is a representitive. Can't spend 15 minutes around her without her going into a canned speach directly off the web site to try to sell me on the magic of the elixer of the Gods. I actually see her now and hide.


Dave Stark
dreamcatcher@astound.net
USAC & USAT level 2 certified coach
 
Re: ASEA water? Anyone using this? Reviews? [sealover] [ In reply to ]
 
I'm sure that if I took the time I could could write up an equally scientific sounding description of urine that I caught in a bottle after it had run down a Carbon Fiber downtube. Of course I would have to call it something else.

What a bunch of crap / BS. Almost as bad as TV Preachers for fleecing people out of their money.

BC Don
Pain is temporary, not giving it your all lasts all Winter.
 
Re: ASEA water? Anyone using this? Reviews? [Dopers.Suck] [ In reply to ]
 
I don't care who is sponsoring it. you see many known athletes walking around with these stupid ion-balance bracelets. If you want to see performance improvement just train smart and stop spending money on this crap... just my 2 cents.
 
Re: ASEA water? Anyone using this? Reviews? [sealover] [ In reply to ]
 
horseshit

sealover wrote:
There seem to be some misunderstandings about ASEA on this page. I was introduced to ASEA 4 months ago by someone who is a leader in health in the UK and internationally and who has taught me about natural supplements of different kinds and cellular healing. I have used various supplements on myself and clients for several years and generally have a good sense of what they do. Please note, I am not here to sell ASEA. There are no links within this thread to a company site. My intention is purely to clarify the facts about what ASEA is and does.

1. ASEA's ingredients are salt water and redox signaling molecules as proven by third party testing. 15 kinds of RSMs are in ASEA although the specific composition is not made public. It was thought impossible that these molecules would be stabilised ( previously they just returned to the salt water state). It has taken 16 years of foundational research to get to this point and the atomic physicist Gary Samuelson took 3 years to stabilise the molecules. This is why ASEA is groundbreaking.
2. If you look on Pubmed for info about RSMs , you will see the crucial role they play in health. It is a key role as we would die without these molecules within minutes and after the age of 12 , their numbers begin decreasing. They exist in every cell and they repair and replace cells and also protect them. If you spray ASEA on a burn, watch how it heals much quicker than usual.
3. Athletes are using ASEA because it improves endurance and recovery as prelim VT tests have shown. Many elite athletes are now using ASEA because it is helping them in competition and boosting energy levels. Rich Roll is one of those athletes as is Olympian Sinjin Smith. Gold medallist Eric Heiden and BMC team doctor Max Testa are now doing a clinical trial witn ASEA with results hopefully out soon.
4. The ASEA founders are promoting ASEA because they know the world desperately needs it and because it works on a cellular level it can benefit everybody. With reference to your comment about the FDA, the founders were in fact offered a multi million dollar deal by a top drug company for the patent, but they then discovered that the company was going to buy the patent and shelve it. In other words, the public would not get the product. They also felt that as people automatically wanted to share ASEA because it was changing their health, that they could spread the wealth through networking it. Even though network marketing was a new area for them, they did not want it in the hands of a drug company.

If you have a high level of mistrust with MLM companies, then nothing will convince you otherwise. I could be talking rubbish. Ultimately, you will only know whether ASEA works by actually taking it for several months yourself. 2 bottles will not necessarily give you an indication of results. Sometimes, people's energy levels improve immediately but for others it can take 6 months as stagnant energy inside the cells is cleared and cells are replaced. If you do take ASEA, it's worth monitoring not just the major illness/ area you wish to track. Often ASEA works at more subtle levels as well so be aware of all changes that occur after taking it.



Kat Hunter reports on the San Dimas Stage Race from inside the GC winning team
Aeroweenie.com -Compendium of Aero Data and Knowledge
Freelance sports & outdoors writer Kathryn Hunter
 
Re: ASEA water? Anyone using this? Reviews? [sealover] [ In reply to ]
 
First all, Seal is definitely over, even Heidi got rid of him!

second: I'm very interested in stagnant energy. Is it like when I don't empty my lawnmower before winter and the gas turns to lacquer

And peroxide is a RSM, could I just drink that instead? I'm also very interested how these RSM manage to make it to the muscle w/o being reduced to non-active species on their way, I mean glutathione and other free thiols are pretty abundant in the circulation?
 
Re: ASEA water? Anyone using this? Reviews? [sealover] [ In reply to ]
 
stagnant energy inside the cells

That's a hoot.

-Scott
 
Re: ASEA water? Anyone using this? Reviews? [npage148] [ In reply to ]
 
I'm sorry, but there are 14,900,000 results on the Google for 'stagnant energy'... if the Google ranks it, it must be true...
 
Re: ASEA water? Anyone using this? Reviews? [carneval] [ In reply to ]
 
Also, why would an atomic physicist have anything to do with this? You'd want a chemist, specifically a synthetic chemist, to do this work.

You actually want a magician to do this work.

Styrrell
 
Re: ASEA water? Anyone using this? Reviews? [lemond853] [ In reply to ]
 
 Food grade hydrogen peroxide can be used at a certain dosage with distilled water for detoxing and I have used it on several occasions but it is not stable as ASEA is.
Further clinical trials are being done with results due in a couple of months.


http://myaseaonline.info/...fficiency_US_ENG.pdf
http://myaseaonline.info/...hitePaperVTUSENG.pdf
http://myaseaonline.info/...ioactivityUS_ENG.pdf
http://myaseaonline.info/...ification_US_ENG.pdf
http://myaseaonline.info/...dies_for_Website.pdf

http://test.askdrgary.com/Molecules.aspx - the website of the researcher who stabilised the RSMs.
 
Re: ASEA water? Anyone using this? Reviews? [carneval] [ In reply to ]
 
thank you for reading my mind and writing it out...hilarious to read bad scientific claims it's almost better than hearing people try to defend religion
 
Re: ASEA water? Anyone using this? Reviews? [sealover] [ In reply to ]
 
Never trust a doctor that goes by "Dr. First Name"

Is there ANY peer-reviewed data showing ASEA befit?

Just glancing at the white paper of the VT study. First it's unblinded and unrandomized so the whole paper is worthless beyond that point. If we overlook that glaring error the only thing ASEA claims to do is extend time to VO2 max. Is that even a worthwhile marker of benefit? The paper also lies and says time to VT was extended when the p value is greater than 0.05.
 
Re: ASEA water? Anyone using this? Reviews? [sealover] [ In reply to ]
 
this one kills me:

http://myaseaonline.info/...dies_for_Website.pdf

reading through, keep in your mind that "the product" is saline solution, lol

sealover wrote:
Food grade hydrogen peroxide can be used at a certain dosage with distilled water for detoxing and I have used it on several occasions but it is not stable as ASEA is.
Further clinical trials are being done with results due in a couple of months.


http://myaseaonline.info/...fficiency_US_ENG.pdf
http://myaseaonline.info/...hitePaperVTUSENG.pdf
http://myaseaonline.info/...ioactivityUS_ENG.pdf
http://myaseaonline.info/...ification_US_ENG.pdf
http://myaseaonline.info/...dies_for_Website.pdf

http://test.askdrgary.com/Molecules.aspx - the website of the researcher who stabilised the RSMs.



Kat Hunter reports on the San Dimas Stage Race from inside the GC winning team
Aeroweenie.com -Compendium of Aero Data and Knowledge
Freelance sports & outdoors writer Kathryn Hunter
 
Re: ASEA water? Anyone using this? Reviews? [jackmott] [ In reply to ]
 
Recent research results from the Human Performance Lab on athletes who use ASEA...



MULTISPORT: New research shows link to drinking ASEA and likely Glycogen sparing for athletes:


Study finds that after drinking ASEA for one week, athletes experienced shift in 43 metabolites
Salt Lake City, Utah -- ASEA, LLC announces the release of groundbreaking findings at the Experimental Biology 2012 Conference in San Diego of a new study from the Human Performance Laboratory showing increased power output and endurance among competitive athletes.
The study supervised by Dr. David C. Nieman, DrPH, FACSM at the Human Performance Laboratory, Appalachian State University, found that after drinking ASEA athletes experienced massive free-fatty acid mobilization in the blood PRIOR to exercise to a level normally found only after heavy exercise.
"These are very significant findings," said Nieman. "Our research demonstrated that ASEA is causing mobilization of free-fatty acids PRIOR to exercise, making this source of fuel available at the outset of exercise or competitive performance. This has important implications, especially regarding glycogen sparing, which is something every athlete tries to achieve." Glycogen sparing is the use of non-carbohydrates as a source of energy during exercise so that the depletion of muscle glycogen is delayed. When glycogen is spared the body burns fats for energy, making a greater contribution to an athlete's efforts during the initial stages of a race. This leaves more glycogen for the later stages of racing or exercise, and muscle fatigue will be delayed.
The research found that after drinking ASEA for one week, athletes were experiencing a shift in 43 metabolites.
"We have rarely seen such a drastic difference. For 43 of those signals to change, that is a quarter of the metabolite profile that we are monitoring. It is a huge bump in metabolite shifts that are due to the ingestion of just one product," said Nieman.
What do these metabolite shifts mean for athletes?
"Athletes actually started the exercise after drinking ASEA with a lot more of these free-fatty acids in their blood. The reason that is important is that the muscles will actually use that as fuel, sparing the muscle glycogen and the use of amino acids which is what we found as we analyzed the data," said Nieman.
"Every understanding from the literature is that these probably came from the fat stores in the abdominal area," said Nieman. "So if you drink ASEA we found that the fats go up in the blood. If you're not exercising, those fats will still be used to support the body's metabolism for life."
Simply drinking ASEA for seven days mobilized fuel stores in the body from abdominal fat. For those that want to burn more fat during exercise ASEA is ideal. Even without exercise the freed up fat stores will be used by the body as fuel.
Although this is the first laboratory study of ASEA on athletes, many endurance athletes have been drinking ASEA and noticing improvements in their race times, recovery after racing/training, etc.
James Lawrence, World Record, Most Triathlons 70.3 races, said, "I've experienced all these tremendous benefits over the last few years when I'm doing all these world records, and maybe didn't understand it, but was fearful to go off the product. With this new study it's really helped me understand why I don't get sore, and why I'm able to just lock in this strong pace and hold it for so long."
Cody Waite, professional Xterra triathlete, had this to say about Dr. Nieman's study. "My thoughts on the study are that I kind of already knew this through my own experience with the product. But at the same time it's great to have that solid evidence that laboratory test make official. That gives it that official stamp of approval from the scientists and then the stamp of approval from lead athletes."
Diana MacManus, three-time national swimming champion said, "With ASEA I've noticed that my times and my meets have improved significantly. Learning about the research behind ASEA boosts my confidence and reinforces what I already know." Typically, muscle glycogen is reduced in the body during a single or many groups of energy expenditures. For example, during a single sprint muscle glycogen may deplete by 25% to 30% of the resting levels. Similarly, at the end of longer durations (60 to 90 minutes) of high, moderate and low exercise muscle, glycogen will be dramatically reduced or depleted.
The study included 20 fit athletes in a randomized, double-blind, placebo-based, cross-over study. After baseline testing for VO2Max and body composition, one-half of the athletes drank four ounces of ASEA each day for seven days. The other one-half of the athletes drank four ounces of a placebo for seven days. Then all athletes completed a 75-km cycling trial, with blood drawn prior to the trial, immediately after the trial and one hour after the trial.
After a "washout" period in which none of the athletes drank ASEA or the placebo, a seven day cross-over study was conducted. The original ASEA group drank the placebo and the original placebo group drank ASEA for a seven day period. Then all athletes completed a second 75-km cycling trial, with blood drawn prior to the trial, immediately after the trial and one hour after the trial.
The research demonstrated that drinking ASEA taps into the body's largest energy reserves, freeing fatty acids from adipose tissue, BEFORE exercise or athletic competition.
"This unexpected mobilization of fatty acids in theory will lead to better endurance in athletes, assisting athletes to maintain a certain pace for longer periods of time," said Nieman.
The research found that the release of fatty acids is coming from fatty adipose tissue, the body's source of abundant, available energy. Adipose tissue is fat stored around the organs of the body, with the most common and largest fat store being the abdominal area. Adipose tissue triglycerides represent the largest energy reserve in the human body. Utilizing these stores is critical for prolonged endurance exercise.
The study also demonstrated that the athletes in the study experienced a massive increase in blood levels of ascorbic acid (vitamin C) after exercise. This could indicate less oxidative stress on muscles. Further research is being conducted to determine the implications of this increase.
"This study is the latest in ASEA's commitment to ongoing research. The frontiers of redox signaling molecules and ASEA are constantly being pushed. This latest study is not a destination, but an on-ramp," said Verdis Norton, Chief Executive Officer at ASEA.


Human Performance Laboratory
The mission of the ASU/NCRC Human Performance Laboratory is to investigate the influence of unique plant molecules (e.g, flavonoids such as quercetin, luteolin, and epigallocatechin 3-gallate or EGCG) on age-related loss of muscle mass (sarcopenia), muscle mitochondrial biogenesis, and exercise-induced changes in immune function, oxidative stress, and inflammation. The Human Performance Laboratory is located at Appalachian State University North Carolina Research Campus and is affiliated with the North Carolina Research Institute which brings together eight universities as well as researchers at Dole, General Foods and Monsanto.
 
Re: ASEA water? Anyone using this? Reviews? [Dopers.Suck] [ In reply to ]
 
It never amazes me to see people with no experience or knowledge of something making complete assumptions about it just to keep someone else down. Asea has given me my life back, after 16 years of sensory neuropathy pain I can feel my toes, don't have stinging sensations, or stiff sore muscles anymore asea is real and is not a scam and anyone who tries it will soon discover that the world is full of people who just love to hate.
 
Re: ASEA water? Anyone using this? Reviews? [greenback] [ In reply to ]
 
It amazes me the number of people that join a forum to plug a product.
 
Re: ASEA water? Anyone using this? Reviews? [Philb] [ In reply to ]
 
So the fact i do not sell asea and have a real personal testimonial isn't good enough?
 
Re: ASEA water? Anyone using this? Reviews? [greenback] [ In reply to ]
 
(makes popcorn, gets ready to be entertained)
 
Re: ASEA water? Anyone using this? Reviews? [greenback] [ In reply to ]
 
greenback wrote:
So the fact i do not sell asea and have a real personal testimonial isn't good enough?

No it isn't, it is just anecdotal information. It is not any kind of study, all other factors have not been eliminated. As an example, I could say that riding on the trainer this winter caused me to loose over 2" off my waist. While the 2" is true, I also swam and ran indoors and I "think" it was more my swimming than anything else. Oh, I just remembered, I used Nuun with my water, it must have been that.

The point is, personal opinions / endorsements are only that, they are not in any way a scientific study or result which can necessarily be duplicated.

I'm a far bigger believer in the capacity of the human mind than these miracle cures. In other words, if you believe it, it doesn't really matter what the "it" is as long as you believe. Sorta like Religion but that's a different topic.

BC Don
Pain is temporary, not giving it your all lasts all Winter.
 
Re: ASEA water? Anyone using this? Reviews? [sealover] [ In reply to ]
 
sealover wrote:
Recent research results from the Human Performance Lab on athletes who use ASEA...



MULTISPORT: New research shows link to drinking ASEA and likely Glycogen sparing for athletes:


Study finds that after drinking ASEA for one week, athletes experienced shift in 43 metabolites
Salt Lake City, Utah -- ASEA, LLC announces the release of groundbreaking findings at the Experimental Biology 2012 Conference in San Diego of a new study from the Human Performance Laboratory showing increased power output and endurance among competitive athletes.
The study supervised by Dr. David C. Nieman, DrPH, FACSM at the Human Performance Laboratory, Appalachian State University, found that after drinking ASEA athletes experienced massive free-fatty acid mobilization in the blood PRIOR to exercise to a level normally found only after heavy exercise.
"These are very significant findings," said Nieman. "Our research demonstrated that ASEA is causing mobilization of free-fatty acids PRIOR to exercise, making this source of fuel available at the outset of exercise or competitive performance. This has important implications, especially regarding glycogen sparing, which is something every athlete tries to achieve." Glycogen sparing is the use of non-carbohydrates as a source of energy during exercise so that the depletion of muscle glycogen is delayed. When glycogen is spared the body burns fats for energy, making a greater contribution to an athlete's efforts during the initial stages of a race. This leaves more glycogen for the later stages of racing or exercise, and muscle fatigue will be delayed.
The research found that after drinking ASEA for one week, athletes were experiencing a shift in 43 metabolites.
"We have rarely seen such a drastic difference. For 43 of those signals to change, that is a quarter of the metabolite profile that we are monitoring. It is a huge bump in metabolite shifts that are due to the ingestion of just one product," said Nieman.
What do these metabolite shifts mean for athletes?
"Athletes actually started the exercise after drinking ASEA with a lot more of these free-fatty acids in their blood. The reason that is important is that the muscles will actually use that as fuel, sparing the muscle glycogen and the use of amino acids which is what we found as we analyzed the data," said Nieman.
"Every understanding from the literature is that these probably came from the fat stores in the abdominal area," said Nieman. "So if you drink ASEA we found that the fats go up in the blood. If you're not exercising, those fats will still be used to support the body's metabolism for life."
Simply drinking ASEA for seven days mobilized fuel stores in the body from abdominal fat. For those that want to burn more fat during exercise ASEA is ideal. Even without exercise the freed up fat stores will be used by the body as fuel.
Although this is the first laboratory study of ASEA on athletes, many endurance athletes have been drinking ASEA and noticing improvements in their race times, recovery after racing/training, etc.
James Lawrence, World Record, Most Triathlons 70.3 races, said, "I've experienced all these tremendous benefits over the last few years when I'm doing all these world records, and maybe didn't understand it, but was fearful to go off the product. With this new study it's really helped me understand why I don't get sore, and why I'm able to just lock in this strong pace and hold it for so long."
Cody Waite, professional Xterra triathlete, had this to say about Dr. Nieman's study. "My thoughts on the study are that I kind of already knew this through my own experience with the product. But at the same time it's great to have that solid evidence that laboratory test make official. That gives it that official stamp of approval from the scientists and then the stamp of approval from lead athletes."
Diana MacManus, three-time national swimming champion said, "With ASEA I've noticed that my times and my meets have improved significantly. Learning about the research behind ASEA boosts my confidence and reinforces what I already know." Typically, muscle glycogen is reduced in the body during a single or many groups of energy expenditures. For example, during a single sprint muscle glycogen may deplete by 25% to 30% of the resting levels. Similarly, at the end of longer durations (60 to 90 minutes) of high, moderate and low exercise muscle, glycogen will be dramatically reduced or depleted.
The study included 20 fit athletes in a randomized, double-blind, placebo-based, cross-over study. After baseline testing for VO2Max and body composition, one-half of the athletes drank four ounces of ASEA each day for seven days. The other one-half of the athletes drank four ounces of a placebo for seven days. Then all athletes completed a 75-km cycling trial, with blood drawn prior to the trial, immediately after the trial and one hour after the trial.
After a "washout" period in which none of the athletes drank ASEA or the placebo, a seven day cross-over study was conducted. The original ASEA group drank the placebo and the original placebo group drank ASEA for a seven day period. Then all athletes completed a second 75-km cycling trial, with blood drawn prior to the trial, immediately after the trial and one hour after the trial.
The research demonstrated that drinking ASEA taps into the body's largest energy reserves, freeing fatty acids from adipose tissue, BEFORE exercise or athletic competition.
"This unexpected mobilization of fatty acids in theory will lead to better endurance in athletes, assisting athletes to maintain a certain pace for longer periods of time," said Nieman.
The research found that the release of fatty acids is coming from fatty adipose tissue, the body's source of abundant, available energy. Adipose tissue is fat stored around the organs of the body, with the most common and largest fat store being the abdominal area. Adipose tissue triglycerides represent the largest energy reserve in the human body. Utilizing these stores is critical for prolonged endurance exercise.
The study also demonstrated that the athletes in the study experienced a massive increase in blood levels of ascorbic acid (vitamin C) after exercise. This could indicate less oxidative stress on muscles. Further research is being conducted to determine the implications of this increase.
"This study is the latest in ASEA's commitment to ongoing research. The frontiers of redox signaling molecules and ASEA are constantly being pushed. This latest study is not a destination, but an on-ramp," said Verdis Norton, Chief Executive Officer at ASEA.


Human Performance Laboratory
The mission of the ASU/NCRC Human Performance Laboratory is to investigate the influence of unique plant molecules (e.g, flavonoids such as quercetin, luteolin, and epigallocatechin 3-gallate or EGCG) on age-related loss of muscle mass (sarcopenia), muscle mitochondrial biogenesis, and exercise-induced changes in immune function, oxidative stress, and inflammation. The Human Performance Laboratory is located at Appalachian State University North Carolina Research Campus and is affiliated with the North Carolina Research Institute which brings together eight universities as well as researchers at Dole, General Foods and Monsanto.



I'm raising an eyebrow on this. And just one eyebrow.

What was the control group in the study, or was there one?

Were the participants blinded? Or for that matter, the researchers?

I'm relatively open-minded on this sort of thing, but just curious on the research.

Also, I interviewed a guy who says this stuff is basically useless:

"Are You Getting Scammed By Alkaline Water, Ionized Water, Magnetic Water, Oxygenated Water or Structured Water?"
at
http://goo.gl/WVoev


Hope it helps,

Ben Greenfield

Nutrition & Human Performance Advice
http://www.bengreenfieldfitness.com
 
Re: ASEA water? Anyone using this? Reviews? [greenback] [ In reply to ]
 
personal testimony is useless especially when it takes the place of well conducted research investigating the product.
 
Re: ASEA water? Anyone using this? Reviews? [npage148] [ In reply to ]
 
I've got an unfortunate friend that is trying to sell this stuff. It is hard to convince intelligent, but not smart, people that there is more to science than science-y sounding sales pitches.

Where ever you have someone on line that can point out the short comings and nonsense of ASEA, you'll find a group of new users giving testimonials. I thought it was just paid surfers and bots, but I think the MLM nature has "entrepreneurs" doing the dirty work for free.
 
Re: ASEA water? Anyone using this? Reviews? [greenback] [ In reply to ]
 
here is another assumption.
you have 2 posts here
you are a shill

greenback wrote:
It never amazes me to see people with no experience or knowledge of something making complete assumptions about it just to keep someone else down. Asea has given me my life back, after 16 years of sensory neuropathy pain I can feel my toes, don't have stinging sensations, or stiff sore muscles anymore asea is real and is not a scam and anyone who tries it will soon discover that the world is full of people who just love to hate.



Kat Hunter reports on the San Dimas Stage Race from inside the GC winning team
Aeroweenie.com -Compendium of Aero Data and Knowledge
Freelance sports & outdoors writer Kathryn Hunter
 
Re: ASEA water? Anyone using this? Reviews? [jackmott] [ In reply to ]
 
This was a double blind clinical trialhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e6k4up4kwyA More clinical trials are being done.
 
Re: ASEA water? Anyone using this? Reviews? [jackmott] [ In reply to ]
 
i broke my foot years ago, stiffness and tenderness remained,and couldn't flex my toes. after strongest antibiotics and no results, x-rays showed what ever causing the drilling pain above my eye had damaged my sinuses. The pain went away but the area remained very sore and puffy. twisted and pulled my little finger, nothing I did improved it, just grew worse until i could hardly bend my finger. It also ached all the time, was very sore as well. Tried a bottle hoping to help my little finger. My finger improved some, but nothing to brag about, but the soreness above my eye went away...first time in years, and I was able to flex my toes. after I finished the bottle, I realized I'd been taking half the recommended dose. Now, I did look into Asea. There website tends to lead people to think their office bld is more than it is. They rent an office space in an office building. they share a receptionist with other businesses, and they were reported to the BBB regarding money, but the problem was resolved. The potential for making the first level millions via multilevel marketing is many times over what a pharmaceutical company would offer for a patent on a product that has very few if any studies that would be approved by the FDA. Under FDA guidlines, they would have to focus on specific diseases/problems, and develop very rigid protocols for use. Why a pharam co would be interested in shelving something so effective is rather mysterious, when it could get insurance companies to pay for it if the product had FDA approval....there would be no end to sales, and as time went on, more and more problems or diseases would be targeted using ASEA. EVeryone keeps saying a pharm co wanted to buy Asea out, but what pharmaceutical company was it? There were also other new MLM medcially focused products with offices in the same building. Utah must have some fairly flexible laws, and or tax system to draw so many MLM's. I wouldn't claim Asea doesn't work because it worked for me, but it is no doubt a money making machine for those who started ASEA. and at the same time get their research paid for by people using it...or enough validation to sell when the price is high enough. In the mean time, caution.
 
Re: ASEA water? Anyone using this? Reviews? [quita] [ In reply to ]
 
Wikipedia: Sometimes patients given a placebo treatment will have a perceived or actual improvement in a medical condition, a phenomenon commonly called the placebo effect.
Last edited by: nickag: Jun 29, 12 4:15
 
Re: ASEA water? Anyone using this? Reviews? [downtowndj] [ In reply to ]
 
downtowndj wrote:
(makes popcorn, gets ready to be entertained)

Here you go...

This is from the App. State Website

http://ncrc.appstate.edu/research-focus

Scroll down and click on the 2nd video. Dr. Nieman played the Lance card.

Also, I find it interesting that on the "Research and Fitness News" tab, http://ncrc.appstate.edu/news-media, there is no of this ASEA water. Nor any mention of 'metabolite boosters'.

I would think that if this product were legit and under the study of this university that there would be something about it. So, I did a search on their site: http://ncrc.appstate.edu/...nd-upcoming-research

2 hits for ASEA. No links, abstracts, or descriptions. There are just as many "[Fruit] versus Gatorade" studies.






Take a short break from ST and read my blog:
http://tri-banter.blogspot.com/
 
Re: ASEA water? Anyone using this? Reviews? [CJS25] [ In reply to ]
 
I've literally skimmed over this just now, but basically they're saying oxidants are good? I thought we were meant to get rid of oxidants/free radicals
It sounds like the exact opposite of green tea to me
 
Re: ASEA water? Anyone using this? Reviews? [Blatant] [ In reply to ]
 
Sorry, didn't intend to reply to your post, just wanted to post...

My assessment is ASEA it is a scam, otherwise they wouldn't need that horrible, complicated, no-money making scheme to sell it. The sellers would be able to make money simply by selling the product, but not so, they make almost nothing,,,, unless they go out and get hundreds of people to work for them and then put them in different groups,, it is a mess. No legitimate product would need that BS to be able to make money. The only way it makes money is by the people who sell it, using it! Literally the seller HAS to buy it and use it. What a scheme.

By the way, I did an ASEA review search, had to go ten pages to get past all the hype created by people who have barely used it. If only we humans would use our craziness for good.
 
Re: ASEA water? Anyone using this? Reviews? [Dopers.Suck] [ In reply to ]
 
i've been away too long.

stuff like this provides great entertainment.

if people lack enough substance to buy it then by all means.

smart buying habits Americans are not necessarily known for.

you'd better laugh all the way to the bank and then i hope you can look straight into the mirror in the morning.

Train hard...race well.
www.jimmishler.com
"Jim, I happen to agree with you" DougStern
 
Re: ASEA water? Anyone using this? Reviews? [Dopers.Suck] [ In reply to ]
 
The patent referenced on the ASEA website is here:

http://www.google.com/patents/US6117285

It actually seems that what they are doing is electrolysis to salt water which would produce some oxidative species like chlorine, hydrogen peroxide, ozone, etc. The patent goes on to say you could use this water to disinfect medical instruments.

You can actually buy one of these systems for your swimming pool that plugs into wall outlet so that the pool makes its own chlorine and you don't have to add any.

Effectively your drinking pool water. I could imagine that would have some big effects on isolated cells (like they show in the non-peer reviewed research articles). Also explains why the seals out light because UV will neutralize H2O2 and Cl2.

Now whether drinking pool water is a good thing for sport performance seems like a huge gap in the research. That one Appalachia state test which showed that metabolite levels changed is almost scary because who's to say that's a good thing (although that study doesn't look published in any peer-reviewed journal yet).

Personally I drink enough pool water as is and don't need to pay any money for it.
 
Re: ASEA water? Anyone using this? Reviews? [sealover] [ In reply to ]
 
Reading this thread has caused a lot of stagnant energy to build up in my brain.
 
Re: ASEA water? Anyone using this? Reviews? [sealover] [ In reply to ]
 
sealover wrote:
This was a double blind clinical trialhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e6k4up4kwyA More clinical trials are being done.


Which peer-reviewed journal will this be appearing in? Don't get me wrong, I wouldn't dare question the impact factor of YouTube, but I'd imagine that such groundbreaking research will find its way to a top-tier journal soon, won't it?
Last edited by: DrPete: Jul 21, 12 19:27
 
Re: ASEA water? Anyone using this? Reviews? [DrPete] [ In reply to ]
 
http://www.fasebj.org/cgi/content/meeting_abstract/26/1_MeetingAbstracts/lb713?sid=c4261da1-f8d2-4932-94a0-ca395b0d1d8e
 
Re: ASEA water? Anyone using this? Reviews? [Dopers.Suck] [ In reply to ]
 
I think the smoking gun here is the multi-level marketing. MLM products have a long history of relying on personality based sales and usually have products that range from dubious (Advocare) to mediocre (Avon). Rarely are truly effective products sold through this method because it is really an inefficient way to get to the market....unless the salespeople ARE the market. *this is a hint*

Retailers know their shelf space is limited and expensive. They demand products that sell, and those products are usually those that are proven effective. In today's data rich environments, it doesn't take long for an effective product to come to the front of the market. ....and it doesn't take long to find out those products that aren't.

There's a saying that you can't know more than an efficient market. Lots of people have lost their ass trying.



Punching cockroaches from day 1.
http://www.tri-junkie.com/
 
Re: ASEA water? Anyone using this? Reviews? [sealover] [ In reply to ]
 
sealover wrote:
http://www.fasebj.org/cgi/content/meeting_abstract/26/1_MeetingAbstracts/lb713?sid=c4261da1-f8d2-4932-94a0-ca395b0d1d8e


Yeah, kinda what I thought. My specialty has journals like that too. It's also a meeting abstract, not a publication.


Also, if this is your "landmark study," showing absolutely no performance benefit to consuming ASEA water (good job, though, picking out the biomarkers after the fact and overhyping their significance--it's a common practice after a study falls on its face), I'm thinking your magical tonic won't be long for this world.
Last edited by: DrPete: Jul 22, 12 13:51
 
Re: ASEA water? Anyone using this? Reviews? [mgalanter] [ In reply to ]
 
to depressed, as far as the bracelets that you ridiculed and the oxygen products, maybe you should do some research on them because they work, better yet why don't you try them when you get sick instead of taking a pill you might be surprised.
 
Re: ASEA water? Anyone using this? Reviews? [vix] [ In reply to ]
 
You know what works? The placebo effect. Unless you have some double blind studies showing that garbage is better than placebo you've got nothing. There really is a sucker born every minute it seems.
 
Re: ASEA water? Anyone using this? Reviews? [vix] [ In reply to ]
 
 

Vix,

Next time you get sick, you should try marinating a bull penis in red wine vinegar and eucalyptus, freezing it, then cramming it up your ass for 12 hours. You might just be surprised...
 
Re: ASEA water? Anyone using this? Reviews? [Pooks] [ In reply to ]
 
Holy sh+t that's the funniest thing I've read all week! BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAA!!!
 
Re: ASEA water? Anyone using this? Reviews? [vix] [ In reply to ]
 
vix wrote:
to depressed, as far as the bracelets that you ridiculed and the oxygen products, maybe you should do some research on them because they work, better yet why don't you try them when you get sick instead of taking a pill you might be surprised.


well controlled research is what shows its total crap. any other nonsense to pedal?

who's smarter than you're? i'm!
 
Re: ASEA water? Anyone using this? Reviews? [link5485] [ In reply to ]
 
link5485 wrote:
You know what works? The placebo effect. Unless you have some double blind studies showing that garbage is better than placebo you've got nothing. There really is a sucker born every minute it seems.


x2.


Of course the bracelet salesmen aren't held to any level of evidence whatsoever beyond some cheaply designed web pages.


Last edited by: DrPete: Aug 16, 12 16:09
 
Post deleted by Indigodog [ In reply to ]
Re: ASEA water? Anyone using this? Reviews? [jackmott] [ In reply to ]
 
It's only saline when it "reverts" to that state. Didn't you read the post?
 
Re: ASEA water? Anyone using this? Reviews? [Indigodog] [ In reply to ]
 
You clearly don't understand the nuances of redox signaling and how it made those cyclists perform.... exactly the same as those other cyclists.

Last edited by: DrPete: Aug 16, 12 20:05
 
Re: ASEA water? Anyone using this? Reviews? [Pooks] [ In reply to ]
 
This gem was worth wading through all the crap.. nice one!



Heath Dotson
HD Coaching:Website |Twitter: 140 Characters or Less|Facebook:Follow us on Facebook
 
Re: ASEA water? Anyone using this? Reviews? [DrPete] [ In reply to ]
 
I get it now. The effect is in the nuance! Will it still work for me even though I'm not very subtle?
 
Re: ASEA water? Anyone using this? Reviews? [Indigodog] [ In reply to ]
 
You don't need to be subtle yourself, but you need to be able to appreciate the nuanced subtlety of your changing biomarkers.
 
Re: ASEA water? Anyone using this? Reviews? [mgalanter] [ In reply to ]
 
In the early development of the ASEA business, the founders were actually approached by a big pharma company and made a very large offer, but had to "back away" from any participation in the development and/or marketing.
It was felt that for this reason that the motivation was to shelve the product so it didn't reach the market at all. The offer was declined and it was felt that the direct market approach via networking would best suit getting the product to the grass roots of
the marketplace. The product is very well known and highly regarded in the pharma business.
 
Re: ASEA water? Anyone using this? Reviews? [sealover] [ In reply to ]
 
Not sure why there's mistrust with MLM, myself. It's not as if a traditional retailing model can claim any sort of moral high ground, is it ?
The nice thing about the networked model is that it decentralizes the power of supply chains away from the tradition
of corporate dominance & control by allowing for supply chain integration by the individual. It levels the field.
If you believe that corporations should have more priviledge and power than people, then keep doing what you're doing while I keep praying for your recovery.
 
Re: ASEA water? Anyone using this? Reviews? [therooster] [ In reply to ]
 
Reading this thread always puts a smile on my face. There is something oddly entertaining and almost satisfying about the seemingly endless human capacity to spew complete and utter bullshit.
 
Re: ASEA water? Anyone using this? Reviews? [vix] [ In reply to ]
 
If oxygen radicals are so good why is ozone so bad? I mean, it should be curing asthma instead of causing it.
 
Re: ASEA water? Anyone using this? Reviews? [therooster] [ In reply to ]
 
How cute, a cock spewing shit.

______________________________________________
 
Re: ASEA water? Anyone using this? Reviews? [therooster] [ In reply to ]
 
therooster wrote:
In the early development of the ASEA business, the founders were actually approached by a big pharma company and made a very large offer, but had to "back away" from any participation in the development and/or marketing.
It was felt that for this reason that the motivation was to shelve the product so it didn't reach the market at all. The offer was declined and it was felt that the direct market approach via networking would best suit getting the product to the grass roots of
the marketplace. The product is very well known and highly regarded in the pharma business.

And so far it looks like the "big pharma" company made the right call, since the one abstract you've published showed no measurable benefit.
 
Re: ASEA water? Anyone using this? Reviews? [DrPete] [ In reply to ]
 
Dr. Pete ...

I may not have been clear . It was the phama company that made the offer. On the basis that there was a fear that the product would never see the light of day, that offer from the pharma company was declined and ASEA moved toward the model
they now operate with. The call was ASEA's to make.

I'm amazed at my own personal experience with ASEA. I won't go into it because I suspect that you may be looking for a microscope to jump off the lab table , run around the room and proclaim how good it feels. Not going to happen.
 
Re: ASEA water? Anyone using this? Reviews? [DrPete] [ In reply to ]
 
That 's absolutely hilarious!
 
Re: ASEA water? Anyone using this? Reviews? [therooster] [ In reply to ]
 
therooster wrote:
Dr. Pete ...

I may not have been clear . It was the phama company that made the offer. On the basis that there was a fear that the product would never see the light of day, that offer from the pharma company was declined and ASEA moved toward the model
they now operate with. The call was ASEA's to make.

I'm amazed at my own personal experience with ASEA. I won't go into it because I suspect that you may be looking for a microscope to jump off the lab table , run around the room and proclaim how good it feels. Not going to happen.

If I used personal experience alone as a basis for changing my practice, I'd have my license revoked. I have that burden of evidence. ASEA clearly does not, so anecdotes and poorly-done studies may suffice.

As for how big pharma operates, it's not uncommon to buy other ideas and table them if they don't pan out. That is hardly evidence of a big pharma conspiracy, though the folks at ASEA are more than happy to pass off there self-deluded conjectures as fact. In reality, they probably decided it was worth the gamble to see if people would buy $30 salt water instead of taking a lump sum from someone who would buy the idea. I'm thinking they should've taken the money and run.
 
Re: ASEA water? Anyone using this? Reviews? [DrPete] [ In reply to ]
 

Quote:
If I used personal experience alone as a basis for changing my practice, I'd have my license revoked

hey i drank a cherry coke zero and then got laid. are you gonna sit here and tell me that cherry coke zeros dont cause me to get laid? you must be in the pocket of big pepsi!


who's smarter than you're? i'm!
 
Re: ASEA water? Anyone using this? Reviews? [therooster] [ In reply to ]
 
And why would they want to keep from the market as opposed to buying ASEA out and selling it themselves? There's no reason to hide such an "advancement" and every reason to get the rights to it and sell it.
 
Re: ASEA water? Anyone using this? Reviews? [link5485] [ In reply to ]
 
link5485 wrote:
And why would they want to keep from the market as opposed to buying ASEA out and selling it themselves? There's no reason to hide such an "advancement" and every reason to get the rights to it and sell it.

because who would sell such a revolutionary cure all. it would put big pharma out of business! duh

who's smarter than you're? i'm!
 
Re: ASEA water? Anyone using this? Reviews? [link5485] [ In reply to ]
 
Ingredients of ASEA: Sodium Chloride & Distilled Water.

They are correct, this has "Redox Signaling Molecules". But so does Sulfuric Acid.

Distilled water is an active absorber and will readily absorb CO2 making the end result a free radical (H+) laden concoction called Carbonic Acid. Consuming an acid causes your body to buffer the acid by releasing cell produced antioxidants. The net of antioxidants in your system essentially becomes depleted in buffering the Carbonic Acid (this would be like breathing into a paper bag trying to create respiratory acidosis).

You are better off eating broccoli, spinach or blueberries (my favorite) so that you have a positive net gain of antioxidants in your system.

Swim, bike and run away from ASEA. (Favorite antioxidant blend --- Pomegranate juice, spinach, blueberries, ice, banana, whey protein --- blend.)
 
Re: ASEA water? Anyone using this? Reviews? [peanut8481] [ In reply to ]
 
Protons aren't free radicals. Just saying.
 
Re: ASEA water? Anyone using this? Reviews? [DrPete] [ In reply to ]
 
Redox = Oxidation reduction reaction -- The simplest example of this reaction is breathing. "Redox signaling molecule" is legal phrasing to misguide the buyer into thinking the molecule is some secret substance. Well, its not.

Distilled water (ASEA's primary ingredient) is an active absorber -- it will become acidic when exposed to air. At that point, yes, carbonic acid (as CO2 in your blood during respiration) is a "Redox Signaling Molecule" as is any other acid. It is fact that A) Carbonic acid is a molecule that will signal the production of antioxidants and B) your cells will produce antioxidants to buffer it -- so their claims are true. What they have left out is that it will also cause a net loss of antioxidants in the body.

Eat blueberries instead.

Source: High School Biology, High School Chemistry, Making Lemonade.
 
Re: ASEA water? Anyone using this? Reviews? [peanut8481] [ In reply to ]
 
peanut8481 wrote:
Redox = Oxidation reduction reaction -- The simplest example of this reaction is breathing. "Redox signaling molecule" is legal phrasing to misguide the buyer into thinking the molecule is some secret substance. Well, its not.

Distilled water (ASEA's primary ingredient) is an active absorber -- it will become acidic when exposed to air. At that point, yes, carbonic acid (as CO2 in your blood during respiration) is a "Redox Signaling Molecule" as is any other acid. It is fact that A) Carbonic acid is a molecule that will signal the production of antioxidants and B) your cells will produce antioxidants to buffer it -- so their claims are true. What they have left out is that it will also cause a net loss of antioxidants in the body.

Eat blueberries instead.

Source: High School Biology, High School Chemistry, Making Lemonade.

But blueberries are high in anti-oxidants, so the oxidation/anti-oxidation annihilation reaction will create a Hiroshima-like event in your intestines.
 
Re: ASEA water? Anyone using this? Reviews? [DrPete] [ In reply to ]
 
I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and say that you must be allergic to blueberries.

:-D

ASEA is simply distilled water and sodium chloride. It says so on the ASEA website.
http://www.redoxbalancing.com/...ce/asea-ingredients/

The marketing strategy is to convince you that they've mixed and rearranged water and salt in new and different ways to keep it stable... I never thought that salt water was unstable. Well, at least they've managed to get the water to smell like chlorine. Look, I have no problem with someone trying to make a living, but distilled salt water is dangerous to consume. It leaches out calcium, potassium and other trace elements from your body. Also, if it has escaped anyone, drinking Chlorinated salt water is NOT a good thing. If its not enough that your mother told you not to drink pool or salt water, there is also a negative correlation between drinking distilled water and cardiovascular disease. Too many sources to mention. Just google it.

Have a nice day!
Last edited by: peanut8481: Aug 29, 12 9:45
 
Re: ASEA water? Anyone using this? Reviews? [peanut8481] [ In reply to ]
 
 
Re: ASEA water? Anyone using this? Reviews? [Francois] [ In reply to ]
 
Yes i know this is my first posting on here as a member, a friend of mine who has posted in this forum has sent me a link to it and i was astonished. I'm jared samuelson, and doctor gary samuelson is my uncle and cso of asea, he makes 5 digits a year for doing the work he does for asea, verdis norton, and jim peck are both friends and associates of my uncle and there making millions a year. do you think he would keep doing this when he could be making much more elswhere unless he really believed in what he was working on. I sat next to him when he charted the vo2 results, as a matter of fact the test was done several times and did show an increased vo2 threshhold above the placebo effect. all you people saying "lets see those 16 reactive chemicals, it must be bogus cuz they dont give us all the trade secrets", well whats the "energy blend" in 5-hour energy shots, or other energy drinks... oh they must not really work, they must just be placebo effect, or just caffein that lasts 5 hours. oh but if 5- hour energy shots were an MLM then theyd be bogus too i guess. How many tests should they do before its (science)??? theyve given you the data and third party data and you still want to see more testing??? I dont use asea simply because i do not like the taste, but stop calling my uncle a con man, if you ever want a free sample or research behind any of the tests then get ahold of me at jnsamuelson@gmail.com. lets face it, if they were gunna sell fake electric water, dont you think they would sell more if it didnt taste like hyperchlorinated pool water??? i mean come on. nobody does that on perpose. you can have your opinions on asea but until you use it or see the detailed reports on it then stop thinking you know everything. i can get you whatever info you want, along with free product to try yourself. most of the product deteriorates when it hits the stomach and lasts only a few minuets which is why you take the 4 oz. 2 times daily. you wont even feel effects for the first 4-7 days except in your sleep. like i said, i do not use asea or sell it, and i do not work for asea, but i know my uncle didnt go to U of U for 12 years to be called a con man.
 
Re: ASEA water? Anyone using this? Reviews? [jnsamuelson] [ In reply to ]
 
bwwahahaahhahaahahahahahah....oh that was good!
 
Re: ASEA water? Anyone using this? Reviews? [Francois] [ In reply to ]
 
let me guess... Francois rode on the little yellow bus to school. dont be a stuborn ass know-it-all. nobody likes them.
 
Re: ASEA water? Anyone using this? Reviews? [jnsamuelson] [ In reply to ]
 
jnsamuelson wrote:
but i know my uncle didnt go to U of U for 12 years to be called a con man.

Then he should stop acting like one
 
Re: ASEA water? Anyone using this? Reviews? [jnsamuelson] [ In reply to ]
 
No little yellow bus for me mate. I do research. And I really don't people using science to make money out of people's credulity.
At least, unlike Andrew Wakefield, this isn't dangerous, it's just taking people's money.
 
Re: ASEA water? Anyone using this? Reviews? [Francois] [ In reply to ]
 
HA at least he is adapting to slowtwitch quickly


Michael J. Pelechaty
Brewer, Black Box Brewing Co.

"Yeah, I was depressed for a little while, but then I remembered how awesome I am."
 
Re: ASEA water? Anyone using this? Reviews? [npage148] [ In reply to ]
 
ha your the one acting like a con man. where are your test results reguarding asea product, where is your lab and where did your phd come from. you have less right to demote my uncles research then he has to promote it. your data against asea = 0, my uncles data for asea = 16 years + millions of dollars in research. lets face it most of you are talking about things you dont even understand.
 
Re: ASEA water? Anyone using this? Reviews? [jnsamuelson] [ In reply to ]
 
Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence -Carl Sagan

My PhD is in a field in which gives me understanding of what I'm talking about and the extraordinary claims your uncle is making.
 
Re: ASEA water? Anyone using this? Reviews? [npage148] [ In reply to ]
 
actually, legaly speaking asea has made no claims whatsoever as to the effects of asea except what the FDA allows them to say based on evidence provided to them regaurding antioxidants and how signaling between cells is improved. all the claims of cures, remissions, and such are made by people who use it. the proof is in the pudding, they say 20% of people are as much effected by the placebo effect. well 3 out of 5 people that use asea on a trial basis admit to its positive effects and would recommend it. hence MLM. id say that around 60%. people here say personal testamonies dont count because there is no scientific evidence. you show me a clinical test of 5 hour energy that is more specific then the asea test results and you have a case. and as far as (it just sounds sciency to rip people off) well maybe if you knew a thing or two you would understand half the stuff theyre talking about, and realize "hey these words actually mean somthing...huh". bottom line, no matter what your phd is in or how smart you are, you have no more right to say "it cant work" or "it doesnt work" than the people who say it does work. you show me your findings in your experament to prove asea doesnt have positive effects on the body. show me your evidence. cuz so far asea is winning in the prove it game. your a con for saying it doesnt work. why should anyone believe you. you have no proof.
 
Re: ASEA water? Anyone using this? Reviews? [jnsamuelson] [ In reply to ]
 
I am under the impression now that ASEA will lead to positive drug tests? I am scared to ingest it.

Ian
 
Re: ASEA water? Anyone using this? Reviews? [jnsamuelson] [ In reply to ]
 
why so obsessed about 5-hour energy?
Last edited by: npage148: Sep 4, 12 12:42
 
Re: ASEA water? Anyone using this? Reviews? [tkos] [ In reply to ]
 
impossible, when the salt an water undergo the reaction reactive chemicals, primarily RS and ROS are made. to much of one or the other can be destructive but in balance like in asea they are already being made by your body. these are key to communication between cells. in an optimal amount it will improve waste disposal from cells and increase reaction between healthy and destructive cells. often times when a cell is bad and the cells around it dont know to kill and replace it then it is a problem with redox signaling. this lack of communication can lead to more seriouse problems. but a drug test isnt going to come up positive for somthing that your body already makes.
 
Re: ASEA water? Anyone using this? Reviews? [jnsamuelson] [ In reply to ]
 
Landis would beg to differ
 
Re: ASEA water? Anyone using this? Reviews? [npage148] [ In reply to ]
 
well 5-hour energy and asea have alot in common as far as testing goes. but for some reason 5 hour energy is backed by everyone and asea isnt. people use 5 hour energy and say it works, people use asea and says it works, but for some reason asea is a scam for lack of scientific evidence. im just sayin we all know 5 hour energy works because weve used it. and until the same is said for asea then the idea that asea doesnt work is unprovable and is just hearsay without scientific proof that is doesnt work.
 
Re: ASEA water? Anyone using this? Reviews? [npage148] [ In reply to ]
 
i dont see what landis has to do with anything, he doped and got caught, then admitted to doping??? the end /:0.
 
Re: ASEA water? Anyone using this? Reviews? [jnsamuelson] [ In reply to ]
 

Quote:
a drug test isnt going to come up positive for somthing that your body already makes.

 
Re: ASEA water? Anyone using this? Reviews? [npage148] [ In reply to ]
 
so far as i know, there is no drug test that is used to measure the rs and ros content in the cells of athletes. and no penalty for having these reactive chemicals. perhaps i didnt consider people doping as "natural" to there body because of the excessive amount found in there blood. you body will only use as much rs and ros as it needs to be optimal. most people are naturaly deficient in these molocules, asea just fills the gaps. asea will not work on people who already are at an optimal level because your cells can only take in so much.
 
Re: ASEA water? Anyone using this? Reviews? [Francois] [ In reply to ]
 
Thanks, this is the first time that I get to of my fav sites, Science based medicine and Slowtitch, combined.

Bent Olav Olsen, recreational triathlete?
 
Re: ASEA water? Anyone using this? Reviews? [LastManWalking] [ In reply to ]
 
Then check out also the blog of Steven Salzberg, at JH, previously Univ. of Maryland, called Genomics, Evolution, and Pseudoscience.
Very entertaining too, although far less clinical and far more fundamental science than SBM.
 
Re: ASEA water? Anyone using this? Reviews? [jnsamuelson] [ In reply to ]
 
jnsamuelson wrote:
but for some reason 5 hour energy is backed by everyone

Hmm...if you add some coffee in ASEA, people will back it up too...that's funny stuff right there mate.
 
Re: ASEA water? Anyone using this? Reviews? [jnsamuelson] [ In reply to ]
 
jnsamuelson wrote:
Yes i know this is my first posting on here as a member, a friend of mine who has posted in this forum has sent me a link to it and i was astonished. I'm jared samuelson, and doctor gary samuelson is my uncle and cso of asea, he makes 5 digits a year for doing the work he does for asea, verdis norton, and jim peck are both friends and associates of my uncle and there making millions a year. do you think he would keep doing this when he could be making much more elswhere unless he really believed in what he was working on. I sat next to him when he charted the vo2 results, as a matter of fact the test was done several times and did show an increased vo2 threshhold above the placebo effect. all you people saying "lets see those 16 reactive chemicals, it must be bogus cuz they dont give us all the trade secrets", well whats the "energy blend" in 5-hour energy shots, or other energy drinks... oh they must not really work, they must just be placebo effect, or just caffein that lasts 5 hours. oh but if 5- hour energy shots were an MLM then theyd be bogus too i guess. How many tests should they do before its (science)??? theyve given you the data and third party data and you still want to see more testing??? I dont use asea simply because i do not like the taste, but stop calling my uncle a con man, if you ever want a free sample or research behind any of the tests then get ahold of me at jnsamuelson@gmail.com. lets face it, if they were gunna sell fake electric water, dont you think they would sell more if it didnt taste like hyperchlorinated pool water??? i mean come on. nobody does that on perpose. you can have your opinions on asea but until you use it or see the detailed reports on it then stop thinking you know everything. i can get you whatever info you want, along with free product to try yourself. most of the product deteriorates when it hits the stomach and lasts only a few minuets which is why you take the 4 oz. 2 times daily. you wont even feel effects for the first 4-7 days except in your sleep. like i said, i do not use asea or sell it, and i do not work for asea, but i know my uncle didnt go to U of U for 12 years to be called a con man.

Is that right... I wonder why ASEA themselves presented data that showed no change in VO2 or time to exhaustion.

I don't need to use a product to spot pseudoscience.
 
Re: ASEA water? Anyone using this? Reviews? [DrPete] [ In reply to ]
 
VO2 max was unchanged. Time to vo2 max was extended.
 
Re: ASEA water? Anyone using this? Reviews? [jnsamuelson] [ In reply to ]
 
jnsamuelson wrote:
VO2 max was unchanged. Time to vo2 max was extended.

http://www.fasebj.org/cgi/content/meeting_abstract/26/1_MeetingAbstracts/lb713?sid=c4261da1-f8d2-4932-94a0-ca395b0d1d8e

"
ASEA did not improve TT performance (p = .95)."

The rest is a hunt for biomarkers and other things to make it seem like something is happening. In the context of an endpoint that anyone cares about, it was a negative study.
 
Re: ASEA water? Anyone using this? Reviews? [Francois] [ In reply to ]
 
Francois wrote:
jnsamuelson wrote:
but for some reason 5 hour energy is backed by everyone


Hmm...if you add some coffee in ASEA, people will back it up too...that's funny stuff right there mate.

Sweet mercy, if you made coffee with ASEA it could become a super drink of amazing proportions.

But then I could probably also just make coffee with saline I guess. Isn't saline solution optimized for your body? I get a bag of it every other week.

Ian
 
Re: ASEA water? Anyone using this? Reviews? [DrPete] [ In reply to ]
 
I just love how all the claims on ASEA's site are vague enough that you can turn them pretty much the way you want if
someone says 'yeah right, that's BS'...
 
Re: ASEA water? Anyone using this? Reviews? [Francois] [ In reply to ]
 
Francois wrote:
I just love how all the claims on ASEA's site are vague enough that you can turn them pretty much the way you want if
someone says 'yeah right, that's BS'...

"Linear modeling found that ASEA supplementation caused a significant shift in 43 metabolites pre-Ex, especially free fatty acids, suggesting an enhanced fat oxidation and amino acid sparing, with an increase in ascorbic acid, during Ex."

This is secret researcher code for "this stuff didn't do anything, so we went fishing for some stuff and came up with these interesting findings, the significance of which are completely unknown."
 
Re: ASEA water? Anyone using this? Reviews? [DrPete] [ In reply to ]
 
When I read the sentence you just posted, it reminds me of the 'automatic paper generator' created at MIT (using something called
context-free grammars, FTR)...Actually...it's computer science stuff, but let's run it here:

http://apps.pdos.lcs.mit.edu/...wman.DonkeyKong.html
 
Re: ASEA water? Anyone using this? Reviews? [DrPete] [ In reply to ]
 
I added slowman as a co-author because he provided the infrastructure to 'write' our paper. And DonkeyKong, as a reference to anyone who
wants to believe in the ASEA claims.
 
Re: ASEA water? Anyone using this? Reviews? [Francois] [ In reply to ]
 
Francois wrote:
When I read the sentence you just posted, it reminds me of the 'automatic paper generator' created at MIT (using something called
context-free grammars, FTR)...Actually...it's computer science stuff, but let's run it here:

http://apps.pdos.lcs.mit.edu/...wman.DonkeyKong.html


The same paper generator actually produced an article that got accepted at a conference. So that reinforces my point from a couple pages ago about how crap gets accepted for presentation at conferences too.

Rooter: A Methodology for the Typical Unification of Access Points and Redundancy

Last edited by: DrPete: Sep 4, 12 15:00
 
Re: ASEA water? Anyone using this? Reviews? [Francois] [ In reply to ]
 
Francois wrote:
I added slowman as a co-author because he provided the infrastructure to 'write' our paper. And DonkeyKong, as a reference to anyone who
wants to believe in the ASEA claims.

I LIKE IT!
 
Re: ASEA water? Anyone using this? Reviews? [DrPete] [ In reply to ]
 
I was still in a computer science dept. when that happened. It was very funny and didn't make the conference very popular...
 
Re: ASEA water? Anyone using this? Reviews? [Francois] [ In reply to ]
 
I can only imagine. Had to be mortifying for the reviewers and the conference in general.
 
Re: ASEA water? Anyone using this? Reviews? [LastManWalking] [ In reply to ]
 
LastManWalking wrote:
Thanks, this is the first time that I get to of my fav sites, Science based medicine and Slowtitch, combined.

hopefully you tie that all together by listening to the skeptics guide to the universe podcast while you train. its what all us nerdy skeptic triathletes do.

who's smarter than you're? i'm!
 
Re: ASEA water? Anyone using this? Reviews? [Francois] [ In reply to ]
 
Francois wrote:
bwwahahaahhahaahahahahahah....oh that was good!

but its so sciency sounding, it must be true!

it would be so easy to come up with some crap and make a ton of money off of it. even after being slapped with a few million dollar fine from the ftc its still worth it. damn morals preventing me from ripping people off! i could be rich!

who's smarter than you're? i'm!
 
Re: ASEA water? Anyone using this? Reviews? [DrPete] [ In reply to ]
 
this test was for biomarkers of inflamation and oxidative stress, you need to see the vo2 specifics testing, this was a test by 1 third party that was paid for by reoxcyn. its 1 of hundreds of tests reoxcyn paid for, and varying results.
 
Re: ASEA water? Anyone using this? Reviews? [jnsamuelson] [ In reply to ]
 
jnsamuelson wrote:
this test was for biomarkers of inflamation and oxidative stress, you need to see the vo2 specifics testing, this was a test by 1 third party that was paid for by reoxcyn. its 1 of hundreds of tests reoxcyn paid for, and varying results.

so youre saying the results cant be reliably duplicated? fail.

who's smarter than you're? i'm!
 
Re: ASEA water? Anyone using this? Reviews? [veganerd] [ In reply to ]
 
Absolutely not. As a matter of fact 97% were quite conclusive. I can msg Tue original documentation if needed. There were many of these tests done by third party. Most of them had great results and then % error leaves room for people who didn't follow the instructions, or mixed up the control group, etc. It ctually happened to Asea a couple times. But 97% consistent anyway
 
Re: ASEA water? Anyone using this? Reviews? [jnsamuelson] [ In reply to ]
 
jnsamuelson wrote:
Absolutely not. As a matter of fact 97% were quite conclusive. I can msg Tue original documentation if needed. There were many of these tests done by third party. Most of them had great results and then % error leaves room for people who didn't follow the instructions, or mixed up the control group, etc. It ctually happened to Asea a couple times. But 97% consistent anyway



so lets see the published studies

who's smarter than you're? i'm!
 
Re: ASEA water? Anyone using this? Reviews? [veganerd] [ In reply to ]
 
Absolutely no problem. Will do first thing tmr morn.
 
Re: ASEA water? Anyone using this? Reviews? [jnsamuelson] [ In reply to ]
 
jnsamuelson wrote:
actually, legaly speaking asea has made no claims whatsoever as to the effects of asea except what the FDA allows them to say based on evidence provided to them regaurding antioxidants and how signaling between cells is improved. all the claims of cures, remissions, and such are made by people who use it. the proof is in the pudding, they say 20% of people are as much effected by the placebo effect. well 3 out of 5 people that use asea on a trial basis admit to its positive effects and would recommend it. hence MLM. id say that around 60%. people here say personal testamonies dont count because there is no scientific evidence. you show me a clinical test of 5 hour energy that is more specific then the asea test results and you have a case. and as far as (it just sounds sciency to rip people off) well maybe if you knew a thing or two you would understand half the stuff theyre talking about, and realize "hey these words actually mean somthing...huh". bottom line, no matter what your phd is in or how smart you are, you have no more right to say "it cant work" or "it doesnt work" than the people who say it does work. you show me your findings in your experament to prove asea doesnt have positive effects on the body. show me your evidence. cuz so far asea is winning in the prove it game. your a con for saying it doesnt work. why should anyone believe you. you have no proof.

The burden of evidence lies with the people trying to sell the snake oil to the rest of us. I'm sure that such a fantastic product has tons of evidence to support its use. You know, like the study presented at some meeting that didn't get published that shows it doesn't do anything.
 
Re: ASEA water? Anyone using this? Reviews? [jnsamuelson] [ In reply to ]
 
jnsamuelson wrote:
Absolutely no problem. Will do first thing tmr morn.

Benefit of the doubt you forgot.

Ian
 
Re: ASEA water? Anyone using this? Reviews? [tkos] [ In reply to ]
 
I was originally skeptical of ASEA Water but then I tried it and 2 weeks later my doctor ran a tricorder scan on me and noticed a 75% increase in my metachlorian count!

Remember - It's important to be comfortable in your own skin... because it turns out society frowns on wearing other people's
 
Re: ASEA water? Anyone using this? Reviews? [Doubletime] [ In reply to ]
 
Doubletime wrote:
I was originally skeptical of ASEA Water but then I tried it and 2 weeks later my doctor ran a tricorder scan on me and noticed a 75% increase in my metachlorian count!

I see what, there, you did!

Ian
 
Re: ASEA water? Anyone using this? Reviews? [Doubletime] [ In reply to ]
 
Doubletime wrote:
I was originally skeptical of ASEA Water but then I tried it and 2 weeks later my doctor ran a tricorder scan on me and noticed a 75% increase in my metachlorian count!

obviously the table salt in the tapwater interacts with the force to make you stronger.

who's smarter than you're? i'm!
 
Re: ASEA water? Anyone using this? Reviews? [tkos] [ In reply to ]
 
he did it well

who's smarter than you're? i'm!
 
Re: ASEA water? Anyone using this? Reviews? [jnsamuelson] [ In reply to ]
 
jnsamuelson wrote:
Absolutely no problem. Will do first thing tmr morn.

There are no published studies. Cut the bullshit. There are some studies slightly connected, that you can find on pubmed, talking about redox signaling
for cancer research, inflammation etc. but they have nothing to do with ASEA. The only from Samuelson G. on pubmed are in sweden and are clinical
nutrition research...

For the same price as a bottle of ASEA I can get a double espresso, which will actually boost my performance. And will taste much better. Especially if
I drink it at a cafe terrace somewhere in the south of France, or Italy.
 
Re: ASEA water? Anyone using this? Reviews? [Francois] [ In reply to ]
 
dammit i wanted to see what he was going to post! i was guessing some internal study with 5 or 6 participants and no controls.

who's smarter than you're? i'm!
 
Re: ASEA water? Anyone using this? Reviews? [veganerd] [ In reply to ]
 
See my other post linking the article from the science-based medicine blog. It discusses precisely that...lack of control groups,
from internal studies, lack of protocols, etc...as non scientific as can be. But I'm sure some folks are making money doing this...
 
Re: ASEA water? Anyone using this? Reviews? [Francois] [ In reply to ]
 
Francois wrote:
See my other post linking the article from the science-based medicine blog. It discusses precisely that...lack of control groups,
from internal studies, lack of protocols, etc...as non scientific as can be. But I'm sure some folks are making money doing this...

ive read the sbm blog since its inception ;) neurologica is great too.

who's smarter than you're? i'm!
 
Re: ASEA water? Anyone using this? Reviews? [jnsamuelson] [ In reply to ]
 
Don't waste your breathe on idiots and never cast pearls to swine. I use the stuff. I like it. Won't even to bother to pull out my science or my microscope for narrow minded sociopaths.
At the end of the day, when my scientific measuring device jumps down off the lab table and runs around the room singing and proclaiming how good it feels, science will finally have some decent credibility
when applied to health supplements in general. The most sophisticated instrumentation for ASEA is the body ... how you feel ..... right where the rubber meets the road. When the clinical stuff is bang-on and impressive,
yet it doesn't affect people in regards to how they feel, do you think they re-purchase ??? Science is a marketing tool for people who have a vested interest in synthetic crap that can be patented for the most part.
Why the f**k are you playing by those rules when ASEA rules really are from a higher order ? Thought I'd come in and kick over a few tables .... any bankers in here while I'm at it ?
 
Re: ASEA water? Anyone using this? Reviews? [therooster] [ In reply to ]
 
therooster wrote:
Don't waste your breathe on idiots and never cast pearls to swine. I use the stuff. I like it. Won't even to bother to pull out my science or my microscope for narrow minded sociopaths.
At the end of the day, when my scientific measuring device jumps down off the lab table and runs around the room singing and proclaiming how good it feels, science will finally have some decent credibility
when applied to health supplements in general. The most sophisticated instrumentation for ASEA is the body ... how you feel ..... right where the rubber meets the road. When the clinical stuff is bang-on and impressive,
yet it doesn't affect people in regards to how they feel, do you think they re-purchase ??? Science is a marketing tool for people who have a vested interest in synthetic crap that can be patented for the most part.
Why the f**k are you playing by those rules when ASEA rules really are from a higher order ? Thought I'd come in and kick over a few tables .... any bankers in here while I'm at it ?

a poe couldnt be better than that. you have no idea how to actually determine if a product is effective. do you?

who's smarter than you're? i'm!
 
Re: ASEA water? Anyone using this? Reviews? [veganerd] [ In reply to ]
 
Check his profile/posting history, it speaks volumes.
 
Re: ASEA water? Anyone using this? Reviews? [Francois] [ In reply to ]
 
Francois wrote:
jnsamuelson wrote:
but for some reason 5 hour energy is backed by everyone


Hmm...if you add some coffee in ASEA, people will back it up too...that's funny stuff right there mate.


For the love of God/Science (choose either) no! Don't do that! Didn't you read what he said!!!

"when the salt an water undergo the reaction reactive chemicals, primarily RS and ROS are made. to much of one or the other can be destructive but in balance like in asea they are already being made by your body."
 
Re: ASEA water? Anyone using this? Reviews? [therooster] [ In reply to ]
 
therooster wrote:
Don't waste your breathe on idiots and never cast pearls to swine. I use the stuff. I like it. Won't even to bother to pull out my science or my microscope for narrow minded sociopaths.


Please tell me you accidentally made the font the wrong color. Are you really this gullible?
THEIR OWN RESEARCH SHOWS NO PERFORMANCE BENEFIT.
Last edited by: DrPete: Sep 5, 12 15:43
 
Re: ASEA water? Anyone using this? Reviews? [J_R] [ In reply to ]
 
F$$k balance! I want my espresso!
 
Re: ASEA water? Anyone using this? Reviews? [jnsamuelson] [ In reply to ]
 
jnsamuelson wrote:
Absolutely no problem. Will do first thing tmr morn.

how about this morning?

who's smarter than you're? i'm!
 
Re: ASEA water? Anyone using this? Reviews? [DrPete] [ In reply to ]
 
Why answering that total idiot?
 
Re: ASEA water? Anyone using this? Reviews? [therooster] [ In reply to ]
 
4 posts. All about ASEA...Your understanding of science is astounding. with a bit of luck you work with/for ASEA...that just demonstrates how much your
salt water works...

ASEA 'rules really are from a higher order'...sounds like stuff to put in the LR, in the category 'creationism'.
 
Re: ASEA water? Anyone using this? Reviews? [Francois] [ In reply to ]
 
Francois wrote:
Why answering that total idiot?

Because we all have our moments of weakness.
 
Re: ASEA water? Anyone using this? Reviews? [DrPete] [ In reply to ]
 
go check the PED thread started by TheForge...guaranteed moment of weakness...
 
Re: ASEA water? Anyone using this? Reviews? [Francois] [ In reply to ]
 
Francois wrote:
Why answering that total idiot?

he probably wont change his mind, but the mind of the casual reader who doesnt understand how to read studies or who may be swayed by marketing nonsense can be changed.

who's smarter than you're? i'm!
 
Re: ASEA water? Anyone using this? Reviews? [veganerd] [ In reply to ]
 
veganerd wrote:
Francois wrote:
Why answering that total idiot?


he probably wont change his mind, but the mind of the casual reader who doesnt understand how to read studies or who may be swayed by marketing nonsense can be changed.


therooster he was referring back to has 4 posts and only in this thread. Not only an idiot, but one created especially to add to the allure of ASEA.

Ultimately if this product worked it would sell at WalMart. Any product that needs to be sold through Multi Level Marketing isn't worth a thing.


This thread really needs to not worry about the fake science or the products claims. One only needs to see how it is sold to understand that it is a bad idea to get involved.

Ian
 
Re: ASEA water? Anyone using this? Reviews? [tkos] [ In reply to ]
 

Quote:
Ultimately if this product worked it would sell at WalMart. Any product that needs to be sold through Multi Level Marketing isn't worth a thing.


i wouldnt use walmart or any other store as an indicator that a product is effective. walmart sells homeopathic crap which is even less effective than this asea shit. at least asea could be used to cure dehydration.


who's smarter than you're? i'm!
 
Re: ASEA water? Anyone using this? Reviews? [tkos] [ In reply to ]
 
Seems like a pyramid scam huh I mean scheme...
 
Re: ASEA water? Anyone using this? Reviews? [Francois] [ In reply to ]
 
Francois wrote:
Seems like a pyramid scam huh I mean scheme...

No, no NO!!! Our model is based on the trapezoid...

;-)


float , hammer , and jog

 
Re: ASEA water? Anyone using this? Reviews? [Murphy'sLaw] [ In reply to ]
 
with a very very small top, and a very very very large base. :-)
 
Re: ASEA water? Anyone using this? Reviews? [Francois] [ In reply to ]
 
... yes ... and a process that moves beyond two dimensional thinking to one that is and will blossom out into 3 dimensions, 4 dimensions and even beyond.
It's about creating a "rounder world" in its structure. The idea is to move toward the betterment, not away.
Those opposed to networking in a marketing context are opposing the individual's right and their pursuit to being integrated into the classical supply chains
that have historically been dominated by corporations. If you believe that corporations should rule the structure of power and thwart the creation of more balanced structures and cash flows, then just come out and say that.
 
Re: ASEA water? Anyone using this? Reviews? [therooster] [ In reply to ]
 
What the hell are you talking about? You're on ASEA or crack?
There is no science demonstrating any effects beyond that of salt water.
 
Re: ASEA water? Anyone using this? Reviews? [therooster] [ In reply to ]
 
You are conning people. You are worse than a thief.

who's smarter than you're? i'm!
 
Re: ASEA water? Anyone using this? Reviews? [Francois] [ In reply to ]
 
i was replying to your comment about structure
 
Re: ASEA water? Anyone using this? Reviews? [therooster] [ In reply to ]
 
A pyramid scheme hardly makes the world more round. That is ultimate conning. In traditional corp you can still go up. In pyramid you're f..ked.
 
Re: ASEA water? Anyone using this? Reviews? [Francois] [ In reply to ]
 
The structural characteristics of what you describe as a pyramid are two dimensional at present. The structural characteristics can change to anything that can be conceived on the ability to program it.
The market (demand) will take networks beyond 2 dimensions on the basis of the buying power being far down toward the bottom (numbers) of what you described. We climb the castle walls via the supply chains and network marketing, regardless
of what level current models are in, allows people into the supply chains to morph the very structure. Do you believe that corporations should be the sole controllers of supply chain activity ? People count.
 
Re: ASEA water? Anyone using this? Reviews? [therooster] [ In reply to ]
 
You use an awful lot of words to say absolutely nothing of value.

who's smarter than you're? i'm!
 
Re: ASEA water? Anyone using this? Reviews? [veganerd] [ In reply to ]
 
You're over your head ... is that simple enough ?
Example ... I have shares that i have earned from one of the MLM companies I'm in now.
Isn't it all about the working class being able to have a piece of the means of production ?
It's a possibility only because of the information age where/how we can reshape structure.
We can only pour new wine into new wineskins.
 
Re: ASEA water? Anyone using this? Reviews? [Dopers.Suck] [ In reply to ]
 



Dave Stark
dreamcatcher@astound.net
USAC & USAT level 2 certified coach
 
Re: ASEA water? Anyone using this? Reviews? [veganerd] [ In reply to ]
 
The move from a structuralist account in which capital is understood to structure social relations in relatively homologous ways to a view of hegemony in which power relations are subject to repetition, convergence, and rearticulation brought the question of temporality into the thinking of structure, and marked a shift from a form of Althusserian theory that takes structural totalities as theoretical objects to one in which the insights into the contingent possibility of structure inaugurate a renewed conception of hegemony as bound up with the contingent sites and strategies of the rearticulation of power.

Duh.

Civilize the mind, but make savage the body.

- Chinese proverb
 
Re: ASEA water? Anyone using this? Reviews? [Duffy] [ In reply to ]
 
Duffy wrote:
The move from a structuralist account in which capital is understood to structure social relations in relatively homologous ways to a view of hegemony in which power relations are subject to repetition, convergence, and rearticulation brought the question of temporality into the thinking of structure, and marked a shift from a form of Althusserian theory that takes structural totalities as theoretical objects to one in which the insights into the contingent possibility of structure inaugurate a renewed conception of hegemony as bound up with the contingent sites and strategies of the rearticulation of power.

Duh.

Now THAT'S how you debate!!!! ;-)


float , hammer , and jog

 
Re: ASEA water? Anyone using this? Reviews? [Murphy'sLaw] [ In reply to ]
 
Murphy'sLaw wrote:
Duffy wrote:
The move from a structuralist account in which capital is understood to structure social relations in relatively homologous ways to a view of hegemony in which power relations are subject to repetition, convergence, and rearticulation brought the question of temporality into the thinking of structure, and marked a shift from a form of Althusserian theory that takes structural totalities as theoretical objects to one in which the insights into the contingent possibility of structure inaugurate a renewed conception of hegemony as bound up with the contingent sites and strategies of the rearticulation of power.

Duh.


Now THAT'S how you debate!!!! ;-)

Bonus points for the Old School reference!

____________________________________________
Don Larkin
Reach For More
http://www.reachformore.fit/
USAT Lvl1 Coach, NSCA-CPT, NASM-CPT, BS Exercise Science
 
Re: ASEA water? Anyone using this? Reviews? [therooster] [ In reply to ]
 
MLM works great if you are in first. The longer it takes to get in, the less you get out for more work.

I am glad it works for you so well that you post on a Tri forum only in one thread about MLM and Salt Water.

No please post your ASEA website details, as I know to belong they have you set one up.

Ian
 
Re: ASEA water? Anyone using this? Reviews? [Francois] [ In reply to ]
 
There's a graduating process involved in evolving structures. They are graduating by way of market demand. The formalization of MLM started with 2 dimensional thinking . In other words, you can draw you personal market organization on a piece of paper.Soon, you won't because market demands will morph the structures beyond two dimensions in an ongoing process of weaning out the apex. That will extend itself to the very ownership of shares in the production, which I have personally experienced. Keep in mind that this is all by way of market demands and real work. No free lunch. The is a free market evolution, not some form of leftist power consolidation. The idea is to move from a consolidation to decentralized power for the individual, not the other way. This is only for people who have ears.
 
Re: ASEA water? Anyone using this? Reviews? [Murphy'sLaw] [ In reply to ]
 
Murphy'sLaw wrote:
Duffy wrote:
The move from a structuralist account in which capital is understood to structure social relations in relatively homologous ways to a view of hegemony in which power relations are subject to repetition, convergence, and rearticulation brought the question of temporality into the thinking of structure, and marked a shift from a form of Althusserian theory that takes structural totalities as theoretical objects to one in which the insights into the contingent possibility of structure inaugurate a renewed conception of hegemony as bound up with the contingent sites and strategies of the rearticulation of power.

Duh.


Now THAT'S how you debate!!!! ;-)

I have NO idea what he just said.
 
Re: ASEA water? Anyone using this? Reviews? [Francois] [ In reply to ]
 
But google saved my ass...funny stuff right there. At least the rooster is entertaining.
 
Re: ASEA water? Anyone using this? Reviews? [Francois] [ In reply to ]
 
it takes some serious skill to write that badly on purpose! kind of like tim and eric. they clearly know what they are doing while making it look like they dont. its genius. thecock however, is scary. he sucks.

who's smarter than you're? i'm!
 
Re: ASEA water? Anyone using this? Reviews? [Francois] [ In reply to ]
 
Francois wrote:
Murphy'sLaw wrote:
Duffy wrote:
The move from a structuralist account in which capital is understood to structure social relations in relatively homologous ways to a view of hegemony in which power relations are subject to repetition, convergence, and rearticulation brought the question of temporality into the thinking of structure, and marked a shift from a form of Althusserian theory that takes structural totalities as theoretical objects to one in which the insights into the contingent possibility of structure inaugurate a renewed conception of hegemony as bound up with the contingent sites and strategies of the rearticulation of power.

Duh.


Now THAT'S how you debate!!!! ;-)


I have NO idea what he just said.

Precisely.

Civilize the mind, but make savage the body.

- Chinese proverb
 
Re: ASEA water? Anyone using this? Reviews? [Duffy] [ In reply to ]
 
 

Replying to:Re: ASEA water? Anyone using this? Reviews? [veganerd] by DuffyPost:The move from a structuralist account in which capital is understood to structure social relations in relatively homologous ways to a view of hegemony in which power relations are subject to repetition, convergence, and rearticulation brought the question of temporality into the thinking of structure, and marked a shift from a form of Althusserian theory that takes structural totalities as theoretical objects to one in which the insights into the contingent possibility of structure inaugurate a renewed conception of hegemony as bound up with the contingent sites and strategies of the rearticulation of power.

Duh.


____________________________________________________
I am a weak, dumb ass pussy.



Oh come on guys, all he's saying is that even Marxists no longer believe that you can predict how history develops solely by economic formation, that history is contingent.
Which is relevant here because ASEA water can make up any kind of contingent bull to sell their product, but the financial relationship is the same.
Do I get a star?
 
Re: ASEA water? Anyone using this? Reviews? [trexleradam] [ In reply to ]
 
Quote:
Do I get a star?

No.

Civilize the mind, but make savage the body.

- Chinese proverb
 
Re: ASEA water? Anyone using this? Reviews? [trexleradam] [ In reply to ]
 
You only get Stars for being pithy.

who's smarter than you're? i'm!
 
Re: ASEA water? Anyone using this? Reviews? [veganerd] [ In reply to ]
 
veganerd wrote:
You only get Stars for being pithy.

I think he pithed all over himself.


float , hammer , and jog

 
Re: ASEA water? Anyone using this? Reviews? [Murphy'sLaw] [ In reply to ]
 
Is this Castillan English?
 
Re: ASEA water? Anyone using this? Reviews? [therooster] [ In reply to ]
 
therooster wrote:
There's a graduating process involved in evolving structures. They are graduating by way of market demand. The formalization of MLM started with 2 dimensional thinking . In other words, you can draw you personal market organization on a piece of paper.Soon, you won't because market demands will morph the structures beyond two dimensions in an ongoing process of weaning out the apex. That will extend itself to the very ownership of shares in the production, which I have personally experienced. Keep in mind that this is all by way of market demands and real work. No free lunch. The is a free market evolution, not some form of leftist power consolidation. The idea is to move from a consolidation to decentralized power for the individual, not the other way. This is only for people who have ears.

A pyramid scheme is a 2d structure? Stop with your triangle strawman. A pyramid is a 3d structure and every "d" you add only leaves more room for minions under the apex to water down your shares. Or should I say "salt water down" your shares.
 
Re: ASEA water? Anyone using this? Reviews? [fierceSun] [ In reply to ]
 
You don't get it. It's a parallelogram. There is more than one person at the top. Like 4 or 5. Woohoo!!!
 
Re: ASEA water? Anyone using this? Reviews? [Francois] [ In reply to ]
 
Francois wrote:
You don't get it. It's a parallelogram. There is more than one person at the top. Like 4 or 5. Woohoo!!!

Trapezoid.

Civilize the mind, but make savage the body.

- Chinese proverb
 
Re: ASEA water? Anyone using this? Reviews? [Duffy] [ In reply to ]
 
Good point
 
Re: ASEA water? Anyone using this? Reviews? [Dopers.Suck] [ In reply to ]
 
I use ASEA, every day for the past year and a half. My experience has been nothing but positive. Just last weekend I ran the Duke City marathon relay with 4 other runners of the age of 11 and 12 years old. We finished 4th out of 63 team in the co-ed division and placed 8th over all with 90+ teams entered in the relay. I am 57 years old coach (I was teaming up in this relay with my athletes 2 girls and 2 boys) and I ran my 10K leg in 45:11. I have been told and know that this is great time for my age. I was on ASEA and so were two of my athletes. Knowing that kids have most of their redox signaling molecules, I was using ASEA for them as a recovery drink and it worked. Keep in mind that I train with the kids and do not run any more than 20 miles a week. My training consists of no more than 6 miles in one day. Most high competitors double the distance just to get one of their best times. ASEA is real, it is here! Those that are skeptical about ASEA need to view Dr. David C. Nieman video a double blind study on the collegiate athletes at the Human Performance Institute in North Carolina. - NCRC Research http://vimeo.com/asea/review/50788371/b2d2c857e8
:
To your health and good luck in your next competition!

Coach Lucille
www.coachlucille.teamasea.com
 
Re: ASEA water? Anyone using this? Reviews? [lbaat1@aol.com] [ In reply to ]
 
Very interesting! Were you wearing a power balance bracelet by chance? I'm thinking maybe that might of been the reason you had such a great result.....

"I swim because that's how I get to ride my bike."

 
Re: ASEA water? Anyone using this? Reviews? [lbaat1@aol.com] [ In reply to ]
 
Wow, great testimonial. I'm sure you'll have everyone running out to buy the stuff given the credibility you've accumulated with your long history of meaningful posts here on ST.

================================
blog
twitter
 
Re: ASEA water? Anyone using this? Reviews? [Dopers.Suck] [ In reply to ]
 
Dopers.Suck wrote:
Very interesting! Were you wearing a power balance bracelet by chance? I'm thinking maybe that might of been the reason you had such a great result.....

I agree. Everyone knows magic bracelets work, but magic water doesn't exist.

____________________________________________
Don Larkin
Reach For More
http://www.reachformore.fit/
USAT Lvl1 Coach, NSCA-CPT, NASM-CPT, BS Exercise Science
 
Re: ASEA water? Anyone using this? Reviews? [lbaat1@aol.com] [ In reply to ]
 
im surprised anyone not using your magic salt water were even able to finish the race! i hear thats all kenyans and ethiopians drink these days.

who's smarter than you're? i'm!
 
Re: ASEA water? Anyone using this? Reviews? [Dopers.Suck] [ In reply to ]
 
Oh sorry, no I do not know about the power bracelet. But I do know the science of ASEA and the double blind studies that have been tested on ASEA. All this research that it has is what proves that it is what it claims to be. Go to www.pubmed.gov and look up Redox Signaling and you find over 8000 peer to peer view articles on this subject plus view the video I first sent out before you say anything else.
 
Re: ASEA water? Anyone using this? Reviews? [lbaat1@aol.com] [ In reply to ]
 
Send me a case of ASS water, right away!

I am 42 years old athlete of man. I coach under 8 years old soccer team. My teams run slow, are not aggressive, and watch airplanes overhead during the game when they should playing soccer. Clearly their Redox isn't signaling.

I think we would like to make benefit from ASS water. My Redox is all fouled up.

Civilize the mind, but make savage the body.

- Chinese proverb
 
Re: ASEA water? Anyone using this? Reviews? [lbaat1@aol.com] [ In reply to ]
 
lbaat1@aol.com wrote:
Oh sorry, no I do not know about the power bracelet. But I do know the science of ASEA and the double blind studies that have been tested on ASEA. All this research that it has is what proves that it is what it claims to be. Go to www.pubmed.gov and look up Redox Signaling and you find over 8000 peer to peer view articles on this subject plus view the video I first sent out before you say anything else.

You clearly dont know science.

who's smarter than you're? i'm!
 
Re: ASEA water? Anyone using this? Reviews? [sealover] [ In reply to ]
 
sealover wrote:
There seem to be some misunderstandings about ASEA on this page. I was introduced to ASEA 4 months ago by someone who is a leader in health in the UK and internationally and who has taught me about natural supplements of different kinds and cellular healing. I have used various supplements on myself and clients for several years and generally have a good sense of what they do. Please note, I am not here to sell ASEA. There are no links within this thread to a company site. My intention is purely to clarify the facts about what ASEA is and does.

1. ASEA's ingredients are salt water and redox signaling molecules as proven by third party testing. 15 kinds of RSMs are in ASEA although the specific composition is not made public. It was thought impossible that these molecules would be stabilised ( previously they just returned to the salt water state). It has taken 16 years of foundational research to get to this point and the atomic physicist Gary Samuelson took 3 years to stabilise the molecules. This is why ASEA is groundbreaking.
2. If you look on Pubmed for info about RSMs , you will see the crucial role they play in health. It is a key role as we would die without these molecules within minutes and after the age of 12 , their numbers begin decreasing. They exist in every cell and they repair and replace cells and also protect them. If you spray ASEA on a burn, watch how it heals much quicker than usual.
3. Athletes are using ASEA because it improves endurance and recovery as prelim VT tests have shown. Many elite athletes are now using ASEA because it is helping them in competition and boosting energy levels. Rich Roll is one of those athletes as is Olympian Sinjin Smith. Gold medallist Eric Heiden and BMC team doctor Max Testa are now doing a clinical trial witn ASEA with results hopefully out soon.
4. The ASEA founders are promoting ASEA because they know the world desperately needs it and because it works on a cellular level it can benefit everybody. With reference to your comment about the FDA, the founders were in fact offered a multi million dollar deal by a top drug company for the patent, but they then discovered that the company was going to buy the patent and shelve it. In other words, the public would not get the product. They also felt that as people automatically wanted to share ASEA because it was changing their health, that they could spread the wealth through networking it. Even though network marketing was a new area for them, they did not want it in the hands of a drug company.

If you have a high level of mistrust with MLM companies, then nothing will convince you otherwise. I could be talking rubbish. Ultimately, you will only know whether ASEA works by actually taking it for several months yourself. 2 bottles will not necessarily give you an indication of results. Sometimes, people's energy levels improve immediately but for others it can take 6 months as stagnant energy inside the cells is cleared and cells are replaced. If you do take ASEA, it's worth monitoring not just the major illness/ area you wish to track. Often ASEA works at more subtle levels as well so be aware of all changes that occur after taking it.

There you go. That's really all you needed to say.
 
Re: ASEA water? Anyone using this? Reviews? [lbaat1@aol.com] [ In reply to ]
 
lbaat1@aol.com wrote:
Oh sorry, no I do not know about the power bracelet. But I do know the science of ASEA and the double blind studies that have been tested on ASEA. All this research that it has is what proves that it is what it claims to be. Go to www.pubmed.gov and look up Redox Signaling and you find over 8000 peer to peer view articles on this subject plus view the video I first sent out before you say anything else.

I'd love you to explain what peer to peer view articles are....
 
Re: ASEA water? Anyone using this? Reviews? [Francois] [ In reply to ]
 
Francois wrote:
lbaat1@aol.com wrote:
Oh sorry, no I do not know about the power bracelet. But I do know the science of ASEA and the double blind studies that have been tested on ASEA. All this research that it has is what proves that it is what it claims to be. Go to www.pubmed.gov and look up Redox Signaling and you find over 8000 peer to peer view articles on this subject plus view the video I first sent out before you say anything else.


I'd love you to explain what peer to peer view articles are....

I think it is like Napster, but for online magazines.
 
Re: ASEA water? Anyone using this? Reviews? [J_R] [ In reply to ]
 
Is it legal?
 
Re: ASEA water? Anyone using this? Reviews? [Francois] [ In reply to ]
 
Sorry, forgot the pink - I thought you were pointing out the individual did not even know what he meant when trying to say "peer-reviewed article". I was just playing off of that.
 
Re: ASEA water? Anyone using this? Reviews? [Francois] [ In reply to ]
 
C'mon Francis, join ASEA today ....

http://www.moleculebalance.com/the-asea-opportunity

===============
Proud member of the MSF (Maple Syrup Mafia)
 
Re: ASEA water? Anyone using this? Reviews? [Francois] [ In reply to ]
 
Maybe she meant pier to pier?

http://www.surffestival.org/Swim/SwimIndex.html

It is in salt water.

Civilize the mind, but make savage the body.

- Chinese proverb
Last edited by: Duffy: Oct 28, 12 20:29
 
Re: ASEA water? Anyone using this? Reviews? [J_R] [ In reply to ]
 
My comment was in pink too. I know what she meant. It's just bullshit anyway. No scientific evidence.
 
Re: ASEA water? Anyone using this? Reviews? [Francois] [ In reply to ]
 
i vote for the napster type thing. i think that's what it is.

Dan Empfield
aka Slowman
 
Re: ASEA water? Anyone using this? Reviews? [rhayden] [ In reply to ]
 
Thank you!
Well put.
 
Re: ASEA water? Anyone using this? Reviews? [Slowman] [ In reply to ]
 
If I connect to their website, will I have salted water in my laptop? Does it work too with an iPhone? And is there an app making the iPhone waterproof?
 
Re: ASEA water? Anyone using this? Reviews? [lbaat1@aol.com] [ In reply to ]
 
lbaat1@aol.com wrote:
Thank you!
Well put.


hahaha did you suddenly come to a realization that you are spouting nonsense or was that a massive fail in reading comprehension?

who's smarter than you're? i'm!
 
Re: ASEA water? Anyone using this? Reviews? [therooster] [ In reply to ]
 
I can top your positive experience easily:

Asea cured my cancer.

And my vision is now 20/20.

Who'd think that this stuff would work so well?
 
Re: ASEA water? Anyone using this? Reviews? [veganerd] [ In reply to ]
 
I think Ibaat failed to realized that rhayden was commenting just on the 'or I could be talking rubbish' part ;-)
I think it may be lbaat's sub-optimal peer-to-peer journal viewer that made her miss the obvious.
 
Re: ASEA water? Anyone using this? Reviews? [Francois] [ In reply to ]
 
yes ... it's classified as a food , not drug
 
Re: ASEA water? Anyone using this? Reviews? [therooster] [ In reply to ]
 
therooster wrote:
yes ... it's classified as a food , not drug

Its legal because its nonsense. Its plain saltwater, nothing special.

who's smarter than you're? i'm!
 
Re: ASEA water? Anyone using this? Reviews? [veganerd] [ In reply to ]
 
Yes, chemically. The redox signaling component is a benefit that is based on physics. The 20th century was a century that was greatly predicated on health via chemistry.
The 21st century has graduated that toward applications connected more directly to physics.
I was shocked to read the conditions of the double blind study, only to learn that the placebo was salt water and it was the ASEA group that got all the metabolite changes going on.
That was the catalyst for my first use. I have had very good results over the last year, too many to list, but let's just say it's a game changer for me .

Good news. The world is not flat and you won't fall off !
 
Re: ASEA water? Anyone using this? Reviews? [therooster] [ In reply to ]
 
Quote:
The 20th century was a century that was greatly predicated on health via chemistry. The 21st century has graduated that toward applications connected more directly to physics.

Words dont mean what you seem to think they mean.

who's smarter than you're? i'm!
 
Re: ASEA water? Anyone using this? Reviews? [veganerd] [ In reply to ]
 
What he means is that in the 20th century people were shoving drinks full of radium to make them better, now they've realized that's bad for health and instead are just throwing physics terms around so no one dies a horrible death.

______________________________________________
 
Re: ASEA water? Anyone using this? Reviews? [veganerd] [ In reply to ]
 
Oh, really ! And what is it that you think I mean ? If you're a shill from the pharma industry, save us both some time.
 
Re: ASEA water? Anyone using this? Reviews? [Slowman] [ In reply to ]
 
Slowman wrote:
i vote for the napster type thing. i think that's what it is.

I think it's more like.. I'll show you my peerwee and you'll show me yours?

Would explain the private nature of the evidence....

___________________


...compensating my lack of fitness with inadequate strength and endurance...
 
Re: ASEA water? Anyone using this? Reviews? [therooster] [ In reply to ]
 
therooster wrote:
Oh, really ! And what is it that you think I mean ? If you're a shill from the pharma industry, save us both some time.


im a shill for science and honesty. Clearly you are a shill for pseudoscience and lies.

who's smarter than you're? i'm!
 
Re: ASEA water? Anyone using this? Reviews? [therooster] [ In reply to ]
 
I love how the clowns from the Big Supplement Industry shoot down the evil Big Pharma industry. The Big Supp is a multi billion industry with virtually zero
quality control. ASEA has ZERO scientific evidence. Where are the links and data promised 3 months ago? Nowhere. Why? Because it's just salt water.

I'll post this again for you:

http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/...ve-way-to-buy-water/
 
Re: ASEA water? Anyone using this? Reviews? [veganerd] [ In reply to ]
 
There...

http://genome.fieldofscience.com/

great blog by Steven Salzberg on science and pseudoscience.
 
Re: ASEA water? Anyone using this? Reviews? [veganerd] [ In reply to ]
 
Science is great ! When more than 40 metabolites are measurably affected by raising one's redox signaling activity, it raises a great deal of hope, questions and new horizons.
The bottom line is how it makes the user feel in regards to overall health over a decent amount of extended time. What's your own experience with using the ASEA ?
Personally, I almost stopped after a month.
 
Re: ASEA water? Anyone using this? Reviews? [therooster] [ In reply to ]
 
You have zero credibility when you're an anonymous, new poster on this site with barely 10 posts that are all on this thread.

__________________________________________________
Follow my blog - Follow me on Twitter - Facebook Page
Powered by Accelerate3

 
Re: ASEA water? Anyone using this? Reviews? [Francois] [ In reply to ]
 
Focus on "They don’t say.". From a scientist's point of view, this is very odd because of the ethical practice of science.
Corporate views are different with different motivations because of competitive forces and other marketing considerations.
When a competitive product is successful , corporations will tend to stick to the bare minimum when it comes to disclosing competitive info in marketing materials and labeling.
The less that is said , the better. There's a bottom line here too. Keep your advantages silent as best you can . Sell the sizzle, not the steak.

Did you know that before the decision was made to bring the product to market that an offer was made for the product from a large pharma company ... to the tune of 8 figures ?
When it was discovered that part of that agreement was that the existing owners of the product had to "back out", they surmised that the product would only be shelved and thus the offer went nowhere from there.
They wanted to ensure that the product made it to consumers. There's been enough hording of good ideas in this world, especially when it comes to things that revolve around health, wealth and energy.
We've been supply driven since "the apple was shoved in our faces". Time for a change where demand can exert a little more power. That comes down to more free choices.
 
Re: ASEA water? Anyone using this? Reviews? [therooster] [ In reply to ]
 
I am so happy that science is finaly moving away from chemistry and toward physics. Those two fields should be seperated from each other as one is obviously superior to the other. A similar movement is afoot to seperate Divinations from Defense Against the Dark Arts.


therooster wrote:
Yes, chemically. The redox signaling component is a benefit that is based on physics. The 20th century was a century that was greatly predicated on health via chemistry.
The 21st century has graduated that toward applications connected more directly to physics.
I was shocked to read the conditions of the double blind study, only to learn that the placebo was salt water and it was the ASEA group that got all the metabolite changes going on.
That was the catalyst for my first use. I have had very good results over the last year, too many to list, but let's just say it's a game changer for me .

Good news. The world is not flat and you won't fall off !

Remember - It's important to be comfortable in your own skin... because it turns out society frowns on wearing other people's
 
Re: ASEA water? Anyone using this? Reviews? [lbaat1@aol.com] [ In reply to ]
 
lbaat1@aol.com wrote:
I use ASEA,


---BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH

Coach Lucille
www.coachlucille.teamasea.com



I find it comical to review the history of this thread. After its initiation it gets revived periodically by some shyster to offer some bogus testimony regarding ASEA's benefits. Said shyster has just registered that day and suddenly has so much to offer the forum. Loads of complete bullshit scientific terminology is regurgitated, presumably straight from ASEA's own MLM literature, everyone mocks the new arrival and the post disappears again. I will give rooster some credit for being the shyster with the best longevity, having contributed his garbage testimony to this thread for 2 1/2 months now, but we all know it is total rubbish and this thread will fade into the 2nd, then 3rd page of the forum, only to be revived in 4 weeks by another ASEA MLM schmuck. So, to all that participate in this one, CHEERS for the entertainment!
 
Re: ASEA water? Anyone using this? Reviews? [T-wrecks] [ In reply to ]
 
Amusing .... where's the study to refute ASEA's findings ? Don't speak for "we all know" when the only thing we all know is that ASEA has a study and the pharma guys don't. That's what we know and you can bet your ass that if a study was ever done on ASEA outside of ASEA's realm of influence ( I suspect there has been .... my informed opinion) , the results would never see the light of day and you would continue to experience the typical polarized mud slinging that you are witnessing in here.

By the way .... I feel fantastic and some things cannot be explained by science. They can only be explained by experience. I wish some of these modern kinds of scientific measuring technologies could get up and run around the room after their measurements and exclaim how great they feel. Unfortunately, they can't and we have to rely on personal testimonials when it comes to that which is truly real .... feelings. That might be in the quantum realm of science. We may find out at some point .... we may never.

I'm curious as to why those who slag ASEA are in this thread in the first place ????????? What's the interest ? Med students cutting their teeth ?
 
Re: ASEA water? Anyone using this? Reviews? [therooster] [ In reply to ]
 
therooster wrote:
Focus on "They don’t say.". From a scientist's point of view, this is very odd because of the ethical practice of science.
Corporate views are different with different motivations because of competitive forces and other marketing considerations.
When a competitive product is successful , corporations will tend to stick to the bare minimum when it comes to disclosing competitive info in marketing materials and labeling.
The less that is said , the better. There's a bottom line here too. Keep your advantages silent as best you can . Sell the sizzle, not the steak.

Did you know that before the decision was made to bring the product to market that an offer was made for the product from a large pharma company ... to the tune of 8 figures ?
When it was discovered that part of that agreement was that the existing owners of the product had to "back out", they surmised that the product would only be shelved and thus the offer went nowhere from there.
They wanted to ensure that the product made it to consumers. There's been enough hording of good ideas in this world, especially when it comes to things that revolve around health, wealth and energy.
We've been supply driven since "the apple was shoved in our faces". Time for a change where demand can exert a little more power. That comes down to more free choices.

Two questions...
Does it come in carbon fiber?
Does Kevin Moats endorse it?

If the answer is yes to either one of those questions, then where do I sign up?

"Good genes are not a requirement, just the obsession to beat ones brains out daily"...the Griz
 
Re: ASEA water? Anyone using this? Reviews? [therooster] [ In reply to ]
 
I think you are missing the point. It's not up to everyone to refute ASEA's findings, it's up to ASEA to prove its claims. All the claims that have been made about ASEA's benefits are anecdotal and not supported in any scientific evidence that has been made available, despite your claims to the contrary. As others have said, every once in a while someone newly registered on Slowtwitch will jump on this thread raving about ASEA and saying they have scientific proof that it works and that ASEA has conducted double-blind studies that support that. When people ask for that evidence, it's nowhere to be found.

If you want to spend your money on ASEA and are convinced you are seeing some benefit from it, go right ahead and do just that. But don't expect people to just automatically take your word for it and shell out A LOT of money for a product with nothing more than what appears to be heavily biased statements in favor of it. If you can provide some of these legitimate, peer-reviewed studies that the ASEA followers claim to have, maybe people will start believing the hype. Until then, you're wasting your breath.

And to answer your qeustion why "those who slag ASEA" are participating in this thread, I'm only speaking for myself but it's because I can't stand it when people fall for all these crazy schemes and get taken by snake-oil salesman. My mother-in-law falls for some of this garbage and it's painful to see her throw money away on magnets, holograms, and whatever other crap is being offered.
 
Re: ASEA water? Anyone using this? Reviews? [bm] [ In reply to ]
 
My sympathies to your MIL. Have you ensured to protect her by having studies proven in all aspects of her diet ? ASEA is marketing a dietary supplement so let's keep it in that context.
If drug protocols are different, they are different for a reason. They should be when they are conjuring up compounds from synthetic chemistry ? Would you agree ? They also market drugs with med claims.

The power of the pharma lobby can be viewed from the standpoint of making it appear that their own constraints have to be cast onto the supplement industry. They don't but the supplement industry has been front and center
on standardizations that go past the smell test for many years. It's the pharma interests that appear to thwart these efforts, with the added irony that they use this lack of progress to point fingers at supps to say, "they don't measure up to our standards".
The only reality that lies in that pile of shit is who currently has political power over who and how that will change/is changing as we move forward .... or backward.

Let me choose in a free market. I'll let you choose too.

Oh yes .... I'm feeling mighty good ! Hope you are too.
 
Re: ASEA water? Anyone using this? Reviews? [therooster] [ In reply to ]
 
I'm not trying to get into a debate on whether supplements should be regulated under the same standards as the pharmaceutical industry, although you seem to be diverting the argument that way. I have my opinions on that and they aren't relevant to what I was saying. I'm merely saying that I won't believe the ASEA claims until I see some actual proof that it works, and not just comments from people that appear to have a vested interest in the success of ASEA's marketing efforts. There's no way I'm going to pay for salt water, which I suspect tastes awful, until someone can show me that proof. You can continue to use it and I sincerely hope you find it helpful, but don't expect people to make that same leap of faith without the proof that ASEA fans claim exists, but never seem to be able to provide when asked.

And to address your first comment, my mother in law knows my opinions on the crap she buys.
 
Re: ASEA water? Anyone using this? Reviews? [sealover] [ In reply to ]
 
"Every understanding from the literature is that these probably came from the fat stores in the abdominal area," said Nieman. "So if you drink ASEA we found that the fats go up in the blood. If you're not exercising, those fats will still be used to support the body's metabolism for life."

"Fats go up in blood"!!! OMG!! Drink the water, sit back on your couch and watch your fats flow...for life...
 
Re: ASEA water? Anyone using this? Reviews? [therooster] [ In reply to ]
 
Did you choose therooster as your handle because it's the sole bird who can have both feet deep in shit and still sing? If so, it's highly appropriate.
 
Re: ASEA water? Anyone using this? Reviews? [robot_ap] [ In reply to ]
 
"for life" ..... ? No. For duration of use, I'd say. If it was for life then it would really be a miracle ! LOL
I've noticed a great slimming particularly in my face. I've had a problem with low thyroid function in the past. Some will relate.
In spite of the of the slimming look, I've only lost about 4 lbs. I don't exercise, however. I run a busy home business. I suspect that it's all be fat loss.
Would love to get back into the gym and really see the effects get kicked up a notch or two.
 
Re: ASEA water? Anyone using this? Reviews? [Francois] [ In reply to ]
 
No ... so I can crow three times when the truth is denied
 
Re: ASEA water? Anyone using this? Reviews? [bm] [ In reply to ]
 
"It's not up to everyone to refute ASEA's findings, it's up to ASEA to prove its claims."

I sell the product direct to end users at wholesale. Never had to show a study to anyone and I never make medical claims.
I understand my business and I understand that drug claims are based on constraints from a marketing point of view.
The public is not aware of this for the most part. A drug has a legal definition based on the marketing claim you make about a product.
A "drug" is not defined by way of substance or chemistry but by marketing application. If I say that distilled water cures warts then that product better be classified as a drug because of the marketing claim.
Doesn't matter what the water does or doesn't do in that definition. It's all about the claim. It's a marketing concept.

Doing well, feeling great and repeat business is very good. No need of claims. No need of studies. ASEA is just part of eating very well and moving toward greater degrees of homeostasis by way of great diet.

How limited is science in this regard when redox signaling is likely to reach into the quantum aspects of health ? When we get down to that micro level, observations and measurements can't even be made.
We're living in a time when your beliefs will be the things to save you , places where science just cannot go.

I still stand on the fact that ASEA has the only study.

I think I'm pretty much finished here. I've contributed enough. For those who posess the power of belief, no proof is necessary and for those who don't, no amount of proof is ever enough.

BTW ... I have several MD's who recommend the product and who also use the product. Don't bother to ask for personal info. They have a right to be free too.



 
Re: ASEA water? Anyone using this? Reviews? [therooster] [ In reply to ]
 
Wow...you totally convinced me with your 'power of belief' comment, and the fact that some MDs recommend it ;-)

Well since you're done, all the best in your endeavour.
 
Re: ASEA water? Anyone using this? Reviews? [therooster] [ In reply to ]
 
therooster wrote:
"for life" ..... ? No. For duration of use, I'd say. If it was for life then it would really be a miracle ! LOL
I've noticed a great slimming particularly in my face. I've had a problem with low thyroid function in the past. Some will relate.
In spite of the of the slimming look, I've only lost about 4 lbs. I don't exercise, however. I run a busy home business. I suspect that it's all be fat loss.
Would love to get back into the gym and really see the effects get kicked up a notch or two.

That should be enough to tell everybody how huge of a troll this guy is. No reason to be on this website other then to try to hock a product. No different then all the Chinese website trying to scam people for bikes. Time for Dan to enact a ban.

__________________________________________________
Follow my blog - Follow me on Twitter - Facebook Page
Powered by Accelerate3

 
Re: ASEA water? Anyone using this? Reviews? [Francois] [ In reply to ]
 
Are you kidding me? They'll be back. When this thread gets revived in a couple months they will reappear to defend their product and their livelihood.


But I do agree with rooster that you must lack the power of belief. I have a bracelet with a small drop of Minotaur semen embedded that will improve your belief and make you feel energized and resistant to fatigue at the end of a long day. Just PM me...
 
Re: ASEA water? Anyone using this? Reviews? [T-wrecks] [ In reply to ]
 
Wow! I've been looking for one of these bracelets! I saved $2000. I know it's nowhere near what it's worth...but maybe If I'm lucky? ;-)
I'm guessing these folks come back all the time because it's enough to get 3-4 people to try their salt water.
 
Re: ASEA water? Anyone using this? Reviews? [therooster] [ In reply to ]
 

Quote:
We're living in a time when your beliefs will be the things to save you , places where science just cannot go.

I still stand on the fact that ASEA has the only study.

as usual for this woo stuff, you seem to want it both ways. so we have:

1) ASEA's benefits are based on, what is it today, physics? chemistry? quantum chromoholodynamics? It works via a mechanism that science discovered!
2) "
How limited is science in this regard when redox signaling is likely to reach into the quantum aspects of health ? When we get down to that micro level, observations and measurements can't even be made."

which just goes to show that you apparently know very, very little about the science that you claim underpins ASEA, let alone physics, let alone the "micro level". observations and measurements at the sub-atomic level have been commonplace in physics, chemistry and biology for more than half a century.

and then we have:

1) "
ASEA has the only study."
2) There are precisely zero studies that show that ASEA has any effect at all (other than the placebo effect)

which just goes to show that you are absolutely full of (possibly well-intentioned and well-meaning) crap. you're free to ingest whatever you want. you're free to tell everyone you meet what you're eating and how great you feel. you're not free to lie about

  • how science does and does not work
  • what ASEA is
  • what effects ASEA has on the body
  • the existence of research studies that support claims that ASEA does anything beyond a placebo

You seem to lack very basic understandings of both science in general, physics/chemistry/biology in particular and most significantly, appear to know nothing at all about either testing or the placebo effect. Your anecdotes about feeling great are fine, but don't attempt to justify them with appeals to woo, let alone scientific credibility - ASEA and its promoters have none, because they have not done the work.


 
Re: ASEA water? Anyone using this? Reviews? [PaulDavis] [ In reply to ]
 
I really recommend the new link they posted on their facebook page (search dox-shots in FB).
There is a video titled: New STUDY - Dr. David Nieman, VP American Collge Sports Medicine.

Looks like a very scientific presentation... pink, pink...
 
Re: ASEA water? Anyone using this? Reviews? [T-wrecks] [ In reply to ]
 
 
Re: ASEA water? Anyone using this? Reviews? [therooster] [ In reply to ]
 
therooster wrote:
"It's not up to everyone to refute ASEA's findings, it's up to ASEA to prove its claims."

I sell the product direct to end users at wholesale. Never had to show a study to anyone and I never make medical claims.
I understand my business and I understand that drug claims are based on constraints from a marketing point of view.
The public is not aware of this for the most part. A drug has a legal definition based on the marketing claim you make about a product.
A "drug" is not defined by way of substance or chemistry but by marketing application. If I say that distilled water cures warts then that product better be classified as a drug because of the marketing claim.
Doesn't matter what the water does or doesn't do in that definition. It's all about the claim. It's a marketing concept.

Doing well, feeling great and repeat business is very good. No need of claims. No need of studies. ASEA is just part of eating very well and moving toward greater degrees of homeostasis by way of great diet.

How limited is science in this regard when redox signaling is likely to reach into the quantum aspects of health ? When we get down to that micro level, observations and measurements can't even be made.
We're living in a time when your beliefs will be the things to save you , places where science just cannot go.

I still stand on the fact that ASEA has the only study.

I think I'm pretty much finished here. I've contributed enough. For those who posses the power of belief, no proof is necessary and for those who don't, no amount of proof is ever enough.

BTW ... I have several MD's who recommend the product and who also use the product. Don't bother to ask for personal info. They have a right to be free too.



For those who posses the power of belief, no proof is necessary and for those who don't, no amount of proof is ever enough.

- its called the placebo effect, very powerful in about 10% of people. The mind is an amazingly powerful and barely understood machine for healing.



Dave Stark
dreamcatcher@astound.net
USAC & USAT level 2 certified coach
 
Re: ASEA water? Anyone using this? Reviews? [Francois] [ In reply to ]
 
Francois wrote:
"Scientific publication"....

http://www.facebook.com/...hp?v=123937991089503

This comes to mind: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QHboMLW-Zn0

"The runner-up John Dunbar, a US Navy Seal, led after the second transition and had a chance to win but ran out of water on the marathon course; his support crew resorted to giving him beer instead." -http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ironman_Triathlon
 
Re: ASEA water? Anyone using this? Reviews? [karma] [ In reply to ]
 
Why is up to ASEA to prove its claims when personal proof is really based on human experience ????
There is no pure scientific proof of something that words at a quantum level. We're not sophisticated enough to apply science to the quantum realm .
I don't think people are quite ready , emotionally, for the changes that are taking place, not only in health but in monetary, political , social & spiritual models.
In the final analysis, it's your faith that will lead you to truth as the secular "rules" of the game get more distorted with each passing month.
Your faith is what's on trial, not science. Science is a part-time luxury affordable by 20th century chemistry.
I'll make anyone here a deal .... if you can show me a scientific instrument that is capable of telling me how good it feels, I'll buy you a case of ASEA so you can have your own experience.
It's the experience that's real .... not the scientific representation that science may or may not provide. Get rid of the broker !!! Make your claim for a case right here --> http://www.wholeearthhealth.com/page/asea
 
Re: ASEA water? Anyone using this? Reviews? [therooster] [ In reply to ]
 
therooster wrote:
Why is up to ASEA to prove its claims when personal proof is really based on human experience ????
There is no pure scientific proof of something that words at a quantum level. We're not sophisticated enough to apply science to the quantum realm .
I don't think people are quite ready , emotionally, for the changes that are taking place, not only in health but in monetary, political , social & spiritual models.
In the final analysis, it's your faith that will lead you to truth as the secular "rules" of the game get more distorted with each passing month.
Your faith is what's on trial, not science. Science is a part-time luxury affordable by 20th century chemistry.
I'll make anyone here a deal .... if you can show me a scientific instrument that is capable of telling me how good it feels, I'll buy you a case of ASEA so you can have your own experience.
It's the experience that's real .... not the scientific representation that science may or may not provide. Get rid of the broker !!! Make your claim for a case right here --> http://www.wholeearthhealth.com/page/asea

Well, I guess when the science doesn't support your claims, your best bet is to call the science into question. Sounds a lot like you are trying to sell people snake oil not water however.

Shane
 
Re: ASEA water? Anyone using this? Reviews? [therooster] [ In reply to ]
 
Why did I know you'd show your face again once this thread was dredged up again?
 
Re: ASEA water? Anyone using this? Reviews? [gsmacleod] [ In reply to ]
 
Don't need the science. That's the point. The human experience is the superior test. When we use science, like the idiots who don't know how to market do, a scientific door opens up and the questions layer one another.
At some point , the conversation gets down to levels that no-one can answer .... no-one. We are scratching the surface on redox signaling (indigenous to the body) and its benefits. What then ? We all walk away and let the experience fall through the cracks ? Madness ! Do really believe that to be a good process ?
 
Re: ASEA water? Anyone using this? Reviews? [therooster] [ In reply to ]
 
therooster wrote:
Don't need the science. That's the point. The human experience is the superior test. When we use science, like the idiots who don't know how to market do, a scientific door opens up and the questions layer one another.

And the last thing anyone selling snake oil would want is to have rigourous scientific inquiry applied to their product.

Quote:
At some point , the conversation gets down to levels that no-one can answer .... no-one. We are scratching the surface on redox signaling (indigenous to the body) and its benefits. What then ? We all walk away and let the experience fall through the cracks ? Madness ! Do really believe that to be a good process ?

No - if your product works, then prove it. Science doesn't abandon ideas because they are hard to investigate or run contrary to our intuition. Quantum mechanics, which you've been quick to invoke, would have been discarded long ago if that was the way the scientific process worked.

Shane
 
Re: ASEA water? Anyone using this? Reviews? [gsmacleod] [ In reply to ]
 
 
Knock yourself out ... do the science.

I've worked with companies that prove the science on their products but then the pharma companies bamboozle the public that the study is not acceptable to "their standards".
Different rules ! "Their standards" include steps that cost huge amounts of money because they are in the drug marketing business. Your bed, you lie in it.

ASEA and hundreds of other companies that produce very effective health supplements have no intention of getting "drug approval". It's not their thing. They market food products that enhance health, not cures.
Did you even know that the word "cure" has a legal definition, as does the substance classification of "drug" ? These are legal terms that support pharma marketing. The are not necessarily health concepts.

How's this for a scientific fact. ASEA has the only study on its product. If you think refuting the science with no science other then the science that's been done, what kind of BS science would that be ???

How old are you anyway ? It feels like I'm debating with a child.
 
Re: ASEA water? Anyone using this? Reviews? [therooster] [ In reply to ]
 
Quote:
Did you even know that the word "cure" has a legal definition, as does the substance classification of "drug" ? These are legal terms that support pharma marketing. The are not necessarily health concepts.

hahahah red herring! hahahaha

i suppose if you got cancer you wouldnt bother looking to get "cured" since that isnt a necessary health concept.

who's smarter than you're? i'm!
 
Re: ASEA water? Anyone using this? Reviews? [therooster] [ In reply to ]
 
therooster wrote:

Knock yourself out ... do the science.

No thanks; I no longer due science and this was not in my field in any case.

Quote:
I've worked with companies that prove the science on their products but then the pharma companies bamboozle the public that the study is not acceptable to "their standards".

So the science was sound but big pharma just came in and pulled the wool over the eyes of the public? What about all the scientists who would have seen the sound science showing the benefit of the product (published in peer review journals of course); why didn't they alert the public to the bamboozling? Or are they all in the pocket of big pharma and therefore too busy lining their own pockets to care about the science?

Quote:
Different rules ! "Their standards" include steps that cost huge amounts of money because they are in the drug marketing business. Your bed, you lie in it.

Are you seriously bemoaning the fact that the supplement industry is not held to the same standard as drug companies? If you were required to prove your claims before you made them, using scientific rigour, there would be many less supplements available on the market so it would seem that the different rules may actually work in your favour.

Quote:
ASEA and hundreds of other companies that produce very effective health supplements have no intention of getting "drug approval". It's not their thing. They market food products that enhance health, not cures.

With no requirement of evidence for the claims they make; granted, the placebo effect will help some but beyond that...

Quote:
Did you even know that the word "cure" has a legal definition, as does the substance classification of "drug" ? These are legal terms that support pharma marketing. The are not necessarily health concepts.

Red herring.

Quote:
How's this for a scientific fact. ASEA has the only study on its product. If you think refuting the science with no science other then the science that's been done, what kind of BS science would that be ???

Wait, I thought science didn't matter?

Regardless, if the study is of interest, one would think there would be people looking to investigate further. Perhaps the fact that nobody is studying this is because it has already been study and the results are not interesting?

Quote:
How old are you anyway ? It feels like I'm debating with a child.

Funny, I was thinking that several children that I know have a better grasp on science than you.

Shane
 
Re: ASEA water? Anyone using this? Reviews? [therooster] [ In reply to ]
 
you don't "walk away". you run a double blind placebo-aware test with suitably large N to establish that the effect is caused by something in ASEA rather than the interaction of psychology and physiology, (aka placebo).

yes, its really that simple.

 
Re: ASEA water? Anyone using this? Reviews? [PaulDavis] [ In reply to ]
 
Well, the dox-shots facebook page has some dude talking about 'double blind placebo controlled cross study' ...I informed him that he probably meant crossover...
Anyhow, the funny thing is that ASEA has a whole bunch of 'science' crap on their website...but when confronted with the fact that none of this is science, they go
the other way and say it's not up to them to do the science.

It's as unethical as can be.
 
Re: ASEA water? Anyone using this? Reviews? [therooster] [ In reply to ]
 
therooster wrote:
Why is up to ASEA to prove its claims when personal proof is really based on human experience ????
There is no pure scientific proof of something that words at a quantum level. We're not sophisticated enough to apply science to the quantum realm .
I don't think people are quite ready , emotionally, for the changes that are taking place, not only in health but in monetary, political , social & spiritual models.
In the final analysis, it's your faith that will lead you to truth as the secular "rules" of the game get more distorted with each passing month.
Your faith is what's on trial, not science. Science is a part-time luxury affordable by 20th century chemistry.
I'll make anyone here a deal .... if you can show me a scientific instrument that is capable of telling me how good it feels, I'll buy you a case of ASEA so you can have your own experience.
It's the experience that's real .... not the scientific representation that science may or may not provide. Get rid of the broker !!! Make your claim for a case right here --> http://www.wholeearthhealth.com/page/asea

I'm feeding the troll, but the bolded part states everything you need to know about this htread.
 
Re: ASEA water? Anyone using this? Reviews? [lightheir] [ In reply to ]
 
reminds me of:


 
Re: ASEA water? Anyone using this? Reviews? [therooster] [ In reply to ]
 
A thousand thank yous Mr. Rooster. Thanks to your stellar efforts marketing AsSEA I am completely and utterly convinced. To never, ever buy that garbage. Well played.
 
Re: ASEA water? Anyone using this? Reviews? [Francois] [ In reply to ]
 
Saw this today; seemed appropriate:

http://www.forbes.com/...l-from-fake-science/

Shane
 
Re: ASEA water? Anyone using this? Reviews? [gsmacleod] [ In reply to ]
 
Check the first answer to the new trail running technique thread.
 
Re: ASEA water? Anyone using this? Reviews? [Francois] [ In reply to ]
 
Francois wrote:
Check the first answer to the new trail running technique thread.

My mother would have said something about great minds and fools at this point...

Shane
 
Re: ASEA water? Anyone using this? Reviews? [gsmacleod] [ In reply to ]
 
Let me reply because I signed on the dotted line for this stuff. It all sounded interesting but the first red flags went up when I said I wanted to try it myself before selling it to anyone. That was discouraged because they pointed to one of their top guys who even though the stuff did nothing for him still he sold it (and has done really well at it). Reason being even though it did nothing for him he wanted to see others benefit from it. Yep pretty selfless. Well because I consider myself a person of honesty and integrity I still wanted to try it out first. Well after almost a month it did seem to help perhaps on healing a bruise quickly. I was then asked to give my testimony on our little charge up calls (Go Team) On both occasions I was prepped a bit before speaking on the call. They basically wanted me to not say that ASEA cured me of anything (a legal thing I guess) but that while I was taking ASEA this happened. Semantics I guess. And I guess the listeners could come to their own conclusions. I stopped participating after the second call because the woman (one of their Diamonds) tried to create talking points for me besides the usual legal stuff. I thought just telling what happened would be the best and most honest thing to say in my own words. Guess not. Well after taking ASEA for almost 2 months I got a huge attack of vertigo which ended me up in the ER. I stopped taking ASEA and the vertigo went away (just saying).Keep in mind you are drinking a type of salt water even though it states its not harmful. You will take notice that some of the people making a huge amount of money(Diamonds) in this are actually professional sales people who were very successful at selling other stuff before I was also alarmed at some of the links we were sent on testimonies by some we were asked to not share this with the public. Why not? If its a good testimony why not share it.Im not mad at ASEA or anything like that. In my experience it seems to lack integrity.If you want to buy into the fountain of youth deal go ahead because the main people they are targeting are baby boomers who are getting older and trying to regain their youth. Funny though if this stuff works so well how come they don't want to make direct claims that it works? Probably because it doesn't. I was also cautioned to not tell anyone to google ASEA because "We don't do that". I know there is a lot of misinformation on the internet but aren't people smart enough to discern true from false? Im not implying that anyone is doing anything illegal or anything. I personally think its unethical to not be able tell things as you see them. Plus do you really want to buy or sell a product that makes no real claims about its product besides the fact that its really just expensive pool water. Your choice thats just my opinion. Google some of their main players(Diamonds) and check their backgrounds.They have made a lot of money selling stuff. And Im all for capitalism and all but I digress... This company was really smart putting this together. PS Im not against MLM at all. Just against people who I feel are not being upfront and trying to manipulate things. That statement is not pointed just at ASEA but any company that would do this.
 
Re: ASEA water? Anyone using this? Reviews? [agape] [ In reply to ]
 
Hey guys,
I'm not convinced about its effectiveness, mainly becauae I don't see any peer-reviewed studies on the product itself. I have, however, found something else you will find interesting that is backed on Pubmed and is being continuously studied by many universities who specialize in their own diseases. The product is Protandim. 13 peer-reviews and 2 general articles so far. Pretty legit from the research I've done so far. Check it out if you're looking for something that's proven already
In Reply To:
 
Re: ASEA water? Anyone using this? Reviews? [coblanchard] [ In reply to ]
 
Holy fucking hell....... seriously?

who's smarter than you're? i'm!
 
Re: ASEA water? Anyone using this? Reviews? [veganerd] [ In reply to ]
 
veganerd wrote:
Holy fucking hell....... seriously?

Yay, this thread is back!

Ian
 
Re: ASEA water? Anyone using this? Reviews? [veganerd] [ In reply to ]
 
Is that a good "holy fucking hell" or a bad one? Lol
 
Re: ASEA water? Anyone using this? Reviews? [tkos] [ In reply to ]
 
This is the best thread I've read all year.
Unfortunately in order to fit with all the other first time posters in this thread I'm going to have to describe in length how this shite made my amputated leg grow back but without the use of any paragraphs.
 
Re: ASEA water? Anyone using this? Reviews? [coblanchard] [ In reply to ]
 
Its amazement that people keep digging it up to shit out nonsense for their first posts.

who's smarter than you're? i'm!
 
Re: ASEA water? Anyone using this? Reviews? [veganerd] [ In reply to ]
 
I will start a new thread then to start fresh from the negative connotations of this one. If you are a fan of Science and honesty like you have previously mentioned, you cannot deem it nonsense until you do your own due diligence
 
Re: ASEA water? Anyone using this? Reviews? [coblanchard] [ In reply to ]
 
If you are a fan of science, reading more ASEA water bullshit will make you die. And congrats on signing up yesterday to resurrect that crap thread about a crap product that is absolutely not grounded in science. (for the record, some folks here are scientists, and have asked for the 'data' several times in this thread...)
 
Re: ASEA water? Anyone using this? Reviews? [veganerd] [ In reply to ]
 
Do you think drinking ASEA water works better with a Greenfield bracelet?
 
Re: ASEA water? Anyone using this? Reviews? [Francois] [ In reply to ]
 
Francois wrote:
Do you think drinking ASEA water works better with a Greenfield bracelet?

If you wear the bracelet and drink the water, you also have to take 15 supplements a day (not too many though), else the magical, magnetic powers of the talisman won't work efficiently thus negating the effectiveness of the system.






Take a short break from ST and read my blog:
http://tri-banter.blogspot.com/
 
Re: ASEA water? Anyone using this? Reviews? [Tri-Banter] [ In reply to ]
 
Talisman. Nice choice of word! ;-)
 
Re: ASEA water? Anyone using this? Reviews? [Francois] [ In reply to ]
 
I have no interest in ASEA, Francois. I will start a new thread on Protandim where I invite everyone to come and scrutinize the studies in Pubmed. Hope to see you guys there
 
Re: ASEA water? Anyone using this? Reviews? [coblanchard] [ In reply to ]
 
coblanchard wrote:
I will start a new thread then to start fresh from the negative connotations of this one. If you are a fan of Science and honesty like you have previously mentioned, you cannot deem it nonsense until you do your own due diligence

Bring it. If you think this shit works then its you who has failed to do due diligence.

who's smarter than you're? i'm!
 
Re: ASEA water? Anyone using this? Reviews? [veganerd] [ In reply to ]
 
He has nothing to bring...why resurrect this thread first? why not post about the 15 papers that show up on protandim, without one single large randomized controlled trial?
 
Re: ASEA water? Anyone using this? Reviews? [Francois] [ In reply to ]
 
I know but I'm feeling firey today! I went ahead and started the thread with a few articles from SBM blog. :)

who's smarter than you're? i'm!
 
Re: ASEA water? Anyone using this? Reviews? [coblanchard] [ In reply to ]
 
coblanchard wrote:
I will start a new thread then to start fresh from the negative connotations of this one. If you are a fan of Science and honesty like you have previously mentioned, you cannot deem it nonsense until you do your own due diligence

Don't Do Science Until You Master Capitalization. Otherwise, People Won't Take You Seriously.

----------------------------------------------------------
Zen and the Art of Triathlon. Strava Workout Log
Interviews with Chris McCormack, Helle Frederikson, Angela Naeth, and many more.
http://www.zentriathlon.com
 
Re: ASEA water? Anyone using this? Reviews? [texafornia] [ In reply to ]
 
texafornia wrote:
coblanchard wrote:
I will start a new thread then to start fresh from the negative connotations of this one. If you are a fan of Science and honesty like you have previously mentioned, you cannot deem it nonsense until you do your own due diligence

Don't Do Science Until You Master Capitalization. Otherwise, People Won't Take You Seriously.

Aaawwww dammit! I rarely use capitalization....can't I science?

who's smarter than you're? i'm!
 
Re: ASEA water? Anyone using this? Reviews? [veganerd] [ In reply to ]
 
veganerd wrote:
texafornia wrote:
coblanchard wrote:
I will start a new thread then to start fresh from the negative connotations of this one. If you are a fan of Science and honesty like you have previously mentioned, you cannot deem it nonsense until you do your own due diligence


Don't Do Science Until You Master Capitalization. Otherwise, People Won't Take You Seriously.


Aaawwww dammit! I rarely use capitalization....can't I science?

sure! i Scienced pretty hard Yesterday, so i'm Too tired to stop You now.

----------------------------------------------------------
Zen and the Art of Triathlon. Strava Workout Log
Interviews with Chris McCormack, Helle Frederikson, Angela Naeth, and many more.
http://www.zentriathlon.com
 
Re: ASEA water? Anyone using this? Reviews? [texafornia] [ In reply to ]
 
noted, thanks









 
Re: ASEA water? Anyone using this? Reviews? [Dopers.Suck] [ In reply to ]
 
Dopers.Suck wrote:
... This really made me think, I might try the 2 bottles and see for myself, it can't hurt anything:)

Imagine I am an entrepreneur.
Imagine that I sit awake one night and wonder what human flaw I could exploit to make a bit of money.
Imagine I think, "Hey, there are lots of people who say " I might try <anything> and see for myself, it can't hurt anything"."
Imagine I cleverly invent a harmless yet ineffective product to exploit this irrational behavior that people have.
Imagine that I find lots of people to give me a little bit of money. Harmless.
Imagine that all that harmless money adds up to lots of money.
Imagine I get very wealthy for doing nothing.
It can't hurt anything.

#######
My Blog
 
Re: ASEA water? Anyone using this? Reviews? [coblanchard] [ In reply to ]
 
coblanchard wrote:
Is that a good "holy fucking hell" or a bad one? Lol

Good for you, at least, since you are a scum troll trying to market some bullshit product with "internet buzz" marketing strategies. Crawl back under the rock you came from.
 
Re: ASEA water? Anyone using this? Reviews? [coblanchard] [ In reply to ]
 
coblanchard wrote:
.... and is being continuously studied by many universities who specialize in their own diseases.



This really made my evening.....

Yeah, most of these privately funded shady university studies are affected by diseased specialists in the field....

Couldn't agree more.

ASEA is the real di..eal.
 
Re: ASEA water? Anyone using this? Reviews? [windschatten] [ In reply to ]
 
Ahh the immortal ASEA water thread. It will never die, just like anyone who drinks this magical nectar. My FTP went up 20 watts just typing "ASEA" (make that 2 X 20 now)
 
Re: ASEA water? Anyone using this? Reviews? [sub-3-dad] [ In reply to ]
 
And Imagine if an MLM had a Return Policy. Like you try the product for a month and if you dont feel any change in your body then the company will refund your purchase minus shipping.

CRAZY RIGHT!!!

Yes I am a new blogger for this site, Yes I just signed up as an Associate for Asea. Yes I am a skeptic when it comes to miracle drugs and MLM's.

The thing that convinced me the most to endorse this product and its supporters was that Asea does have a Return Policy!!!

ASEA Return Policies
PRODUCT GUARANTEES, RETURNS AND INVENTORY REPURCHASE
Product Guarantee
ASEA offers a 100% 30- day money-back satisfaction guarantee (less shipping charges) to all Preferred Customers, retail customers, and Associates.

Product Returns
Returns by Retail Customers:
ASEA offers, a 100% 30-day money-back guarantee to all retail customers. Every Associate is bound to honor the retail customer guarantee. If, for any reason, a retail customer is dissatisfied with any ASEA product, the retail customer may return the unused portion of the product to ASEA or the Associate from whom it was purchased, within 30 days, for a replacement, exchange or a full refund of the purchase price (less shipping costs). If the retail order was placed directly with ASEA, ASEA will issue the refund directly to the retail customer. If the retail order was placed with an ASEA Associate, the Associate must issue the refund directly to the retail customer. ASEA will not issue refunds to retail customers who placed orders with ASEA associates.

The following provision sets forth the minimum refund permitted by law to a retail customer:


A retail customer who makes a purchase of $25.00 or more has three business days (72 hours) after the sale or execution of a contract to cancel the order and receive a full refund consistent with the cancellation notice on the order form. When an Associate makes a sale or takes an order from a retail customer who cancels or requests a refund within the 72 hour period, the Associate must promptly refund the customer's money as long as the products are returned to the Associate in substantially as good condition as when received. Additionally, Associates must orally inform customers of their right to rescind a purchase or an order within 72 hours, and ensure that the date of the order or purchase is entered on the order form. All retail customers must be provided with two copies of an official ASEA sales receipt at the time of the sale. The back of the receipt provides the customer with written notice of his or her rights to cancel the sales agreement.

Returns by Preferred Customers and Associates (Products Purchased for Personal Use)
If a Preferred Customer or an Associate is unsatisfied with any ASEA product purchased for personal use, the Preferred Customer or Associate may return the product directly to the Company within 30 days for a 100% refund (less shipping). NOTE that for Associates this guarantee is limited to $240. If an Associate wishes to return merchandise exceeding $240 in any 12 month period, the return will be deemed an inventory repurchase and the Company shall repurchase the inventory pursuant to the terms of Section 7.3, and the Associate’s Agreement shall be canceled.

Return of Inventory and Sales Aids by Associates Upon Cancellation


Upon cancellation of an Associate’s Agreement, the Associate may return his or her Starter Kit and any products and sales aids held in his or her inventory for a refund. Associates may only return Starter Kits, products and sales aids that he or she personally purchased from ASEA (purchases from other Associates or third parties are not subject to refund) and which are in Resalable (see Definition of “Resalable” below) condition and which have been purchased within one year prior to the date of cancellation. Upon receipt of a Resalable Starter Kit and/or Resalable products and sales aids, the Associate will be reimbursed 90% of the net cost of the original purchase price(s). Shipping charges incurred by an Associate when the Starter Kit, products or sales aids were purchased will not be refunded. If the purchases were made through a credit card, the refund will be credited back to the same account. If an Associate was paid a commission based on a product(s) that he or she purchased, and such product(s) is subsequently returned for a refund, the commission that was paid based on that product purchase will be deducted from the amount of the refund.

Montana Residents


A Montana resident may cancel his or her Associate Agreement within 15 days from the date of enrollment, and may return his or her starter kit for a full refund within such time period.

Procedures for All Returns


The following procedures apply to all returns for refund, repurchase, or exchange:
a) All merchandise must be returned by the Associate or customer who purchased it directly from ASEA.
b) All products to be returned must have a Return Authorization Number which is obtained by calling the Associate Support Department. This Return Authorization Number must be written on each carton returned.
c) The return is accompanied by:
i) a completed and signed Consumer Return Form;
ii) a copy of the original dated retail sales receipt; and
iii) the unused portion of the product in its original container.
d) The Company accepts returns of full cases only. Individual bottles may not be returned for refund, repurchase, or exchange.
e) Proper shipping carton(s) and packing materials are to be used in packaging the product(s) being returned for replacement, and the best and most economical means of shipping is suggested. All returns must be shipped to ASEA shipping pre-paid. ASEA does not accept shipping-collect packages. The risk of loss in shipping for returned product shall be on the Associate. If returned product is not received by the Company’s Distribution Center, it is the responsibility of the Associate to trace the shipment.
f) If an Associate is returning merchandise to ASEA that was returned to him or her by a personal retail customer, the product must be received by ASEA within ten (10) days from the date on which the retail customer returned the merchandise to the Associate, and must be accompanied by the sales receipt the Associate gave to the customer at the time of the sale.
No refund, exchange, or replacement of product will be made if the conditions of these rules are not met.
 
Re: ASEA water? Anyone using this? Reviews? [Krytical] [ In reply to ]
 
It's still just expensive water. Nothing more.
 
Re: ASEA water? Anyone using this? Reviews? [Francois] [ In reply to ]
 
i know, it's been entertaining, but i can't do this anymore. thread locked.

Dan Empfield
aka Slowman