Even though I have swam in water below that temperature, I don't recommend it.
I would say, it's a bit cold...at least for me! :-)

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The "Pocket Hercules" - jgrat

Technique sets the upper limit to where your fitness will take you...

81 degrees is too cold for me to swim without a wetsuit. I HATE to get in the pool, and will skip swim workouts because I hate it that much to get in the cold water. Dang, I'm a wuss about it!

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Quid quid latine dictum sit altum videtur
(That which is said in Latin sounds profound)

Yes.......too cold....that water will give you a heart attack.

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I shall never misuse Rex Kwon Do
I shall be a champion of freedom and justice

It would be too cold for me, to be sure. I usually start swimming in the St. Lawrence at the May/June interface, and that can be uncomfortable. I have a kids' pool thermometer that I put in the shallows, and it'll read right around 60. Sometimes, though, given how cold I get, I'm sure it is colder, but assuming it is close to accurate I can't imagine handling just six degrees "warmer" sans wetsuit. I can also keep close to the shallows for much of my swims in the St. Lawrence, so at least if I get in thermoregulatory difficulty I can vacate the water easily. You mention the sea - might be kind of risky! Tell me that you'll have partners nearby if you're going to do cold ocean swims without a wetsuit!! Finally, how do you measure? I'm 6'3" and about 175, and I have an old QR fullsuit that I'd be happy to send to you if you thought it would fit.

pick up a used wetsuit on ebay, even a QR shorty ( knee-length, sleeveless)- will be much more enjoyable.
you may be ok for short swims, but that is a bit cold.

I get cold very easily (5' 10 and 132lbs) but I coped okay around that temperature in just speedos for a lifeguard competition. It was only a 500m swim and it was late afternoon on a day with air temperatures up in the 90s which helped. Not sure what it would have been like for any reasonable length of time in the water. 10C water with a 2mm thick wetsuit (short legs, long arms) and I was hypothermic after about four minutes.



John

Remember that one symptom of hypothermia is poor decision making. So you may not be quite as lucid, and properly able to get yourself out of the water before you realize it. The problem with me is that I make the bad decisions long before I even get in the cold water.

I don't think 66 is that terrible, I routinely swim in 70 with no wetsuit. It's not the most comfortable thing in the world, but for 20 minutes or so you should be fine. If you deciide to do it, have someone with you or stay near. That may be more difficult in the ocean, especially when the sharks are feeding.

Water temperature is a very personal matter and for some people 80 degrees is cold. Some of the former Navy SEALs that frequent the board will probably chime in on the realities of lengthy exposure to cold water. Back in the 90's, the US Army Ranger School experienced a tragedy during "Jungle" phase when despite numerous safety measures and the students rigorous activities while exposed to several hours of emersion in waist/chest deep waters, several of the Ranger students developed hypothermia resulting in a fatality.

Now I suggest you draw your own conclusions as everyone has differrent tolerances for cold. I have been exposed at various times to water temps that ranged between 50-70 degrees and although there is a significant initial shock, in my case as long as the water is above 65 degrees or so, if I am exercising or performing some action that prevents me from dwelling on the water temps, I can tolerate (keep in mind that many of those times I did not have much choice in the matter). A couple years ago, the heater at one of the pools I use had broken but the sign indicating the pool was closed for maintenance was only posted on the front entrance and I came in through the back entrance. I was 30-minutes into the workout when the maintenance guy came by and asked me if I thought the water was cold (apparently it was only 75 degrees at the time) to which I responded "only when I first got in." After I finished the workout, I ran on the treadmill and lifted weights and felt none the worse for it. I will note that while I was in the pool, two others attempted to swim; one jumped in and seemed as if she was trying to exit even before her arms hit the water (very humorous, could have one some moeny if we had video) and the other person did not make it past the first step - I had taken the plunge and jumped in (stupid, stupid, stupid!).

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Tolerance to cold water varies a great deal. When I was really young (probably about your age), I did do outdoor swim practices in water that was sometimes that cold. Wasn't a great deal of fun, but probably not that dangerous. Of course, one reason why it was not dangerous was that the swim was well supervised by a maniac coach that would have noticed anyone slowing down and there were at least 50 other swimmers in the pool.

It depends on the person. My boss is a competitive and long distance swimmer and he finds it too hot if the water temperature is much over 60 F. He is making his third attempt at the English Channel this summer (at 62 years old). The sad thing is that he makes me look slow and I'm 34 years younger.

It's too cold for me. I could swim for a while, but I don't think it would be very worthwhile training -- my technique would probably be bad and I couldn't push too hard because I'd be focused on how f'n cold the water was. But, I don't tolerate cold of any sort well...it's that high surface area to volume ratio thing.

I did an Oly last year in water that tested 70 just off the bank. In the channel it was probably colder, and I didn't have a wetsuit. I made it, but my legs wouldn't really bend running to the transition area and I definitely didn't set a PR. This season I think I'll be getting a wet suit :). I need to loose a couple minutes on my swim anyway...

Andy

I did my very first tri with out one in 62 degree water.
I was younger then, than you are now.
I didn't die, but I can't say it was boatloads of fun either.

You would happen to need a small QR would you?

Thanks everyone for the offers, but I decided to go ahead and do the 1k open-water race tommorow without a wetsuit.

Will let everyone know how it goes.

It's ok for me. I do it all the time (though I swim MUCH better with the cheat suit on). Cold water does get my HR higher, though. Go try it for yourself.

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What a drag it is getting old. -- Stones

My second tri was 61 water with a 61 air temp and it rained the whole day. At no point was I warm, and I hate the cold. Many were there in speedo's but I did have a half. The initial shock was breathtaking and I never really felt my muscles, so I wasn't sure at what point I would die, but none of us did and it was only a mental battle. You'll be fine, just don't panic when you hit the water as your breathing may be weird for a while. After my IM I got rid of my suit and now will go suitless as I admire speedo swimmers more than us life vest swimmers.

How well you do in cooler water depends on body fat percentage, genetics, and acclimation.

For me, 66 falls in the realm of 'yeah, the first 50-75 yards will be kind of sucky, but after that, no big deal' I've done plenty of swim practices in water that cool or cooler.

But then I'm probably higher body fat than most folks here, and suspect I also have a bit of the genetics going for me (though not like Lynne Cox or anything). A while back, my kid sister had to go through rescue swimmer training for her job, and as part of that, they got told to go tread water in 60-61 degree conditions. The idea was for them to learn symptoms of hypothermia, and the instructors would pull them when the swimmers were starting to feel them. Sister got pulled not for body temperature, but because they ran out of time and had to go onto the next class. She was left muttering 'it's not like it was that cold or anything, everyone else was wimps'

I don't have a problem at that temp sans wetsuit. Well, for 500 yds or so. A 1K, I'd have to think twice, though.

In my first no wetsuit race, I came out of the water and experienced some tunnel vision, even after I removed the goggles. It cleared within a mile on the bike. It was my first triathlon, too.

The second time I did it, Solana Beach, last year, I think the water was below 70. It's such a short swim, I decided not to wear the suit. It was a great choice as I'm not much faster with a suit and still came out in first in my AG. On the run out, I passed Emilio DeSoto, removing his T1 bib. So, having no wetsuit saved me that removal time and I had an incredible transition. Emilio passed me back shortly after that, among a few others in my AG (dammit).

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Proud member of FISHTWITCH: doing a bit more than fish exercise now.

Ah-ha! It's that soon, eh? Well then, best of luck with it. At this point you might want to consider some lard to serve as an insulative coating. I'm serious about this. When I swim in the low 60s, I will put it on my hands and feet ( note: adjust goggles first!), and that helps a lot. Ambient temperatures will determine your comfort level as well - swimming in cold water with cool air temps makes for very cold hands slicing through the chilly air alternatively with pulling through frigid water. If it's a warm day tomorrow, you should be okay. Have fun, but if your testicles retract too far into your body, don't panic - they'll find their way to the outside again in good time!

No problem--Swim about two miles out and two miles back. Don't bother having a buddy, and no need to tell anyone where you are and what you are doing. Have a great swim! :)

The swim went fine. My legs were kinda numb but it wasn't that cold.

There was a major swell though. Big big waves. It's weird swimming 'uphill'. Swam about 2/3s of the race with my head out of the water. Gotta work on that.

Bottom line: 19 C isn't that cold.

Freestyle--cold water will catch up with you over a longer distance. Another thing that can happen is leg cramps from the cold water, and it will be harder to run when you come out, and maybe take longer for your bike legs to warm up and get up to speed. Plus, if your bathing suit should come off, you will never be able to get a date--"shrinkage factor".

thanks for coming back with your experience. I just came here looking for info because I'm doing my first triathlon in two weeks and the water is supposed to be 66-68 degrees. I remember that being cold when I was a kid but it's likely just a 10-15 minute swim so shouldn't be bad.
For what it's worth, I recently learned that the Trans Tahoe Relay is completed without a wetsuit, and water temps are in the upper 50s in the middle of the lake. they limit the swim intervals to 10 minutes at a time, so if they can do 10 minutes in upper 50s, i should be able to 10-12 in upper 60s.

Oakland maybe.. ?

yep, Oakland Tri. Trying to get back into shape. Started from zero back in mid April (well, zero was a heaving 300 yard swim at 4:50/100y). Made some decent progress so decided a couple of weeks ago to sign up.

Never done a race before, 5k or otherwise, so hoping this will be a fun way to get used to it. will be my first athletic "competition" since high school basketball... 24 years ago...

My only advice is find clear water on the swim and pace yourself .. open water in crowds can be taxing mentally and physically. Trying to survive sucks compared to just swimming along .
I don't trust my knee for 10k (yet) so I'll be the one taking forever in T2 putting on a knee brace. ;) see you in the sprint

thanks. I'm doing the Sprint distance. hoping to find a shady spot for the swim and try to resist the urge to push too hard and just enjoy it. have a good race!

That anecdote has zero applicability here. That happened at the "Florida Phase". By the time the kids hit that phase, they are pretty much shattered. They've lost 10-20lbs because they've not rec'd enough chow, they're incredibly sleep deprived routinely going 2-4days with not the slightest catnap, and they've been on the move almost non-stop carrying a load easily >100lbs. They could move thru the cold water for hours, not generating much heat because of the slow pace of the movement. The FL phase is really tough and making it day by day only only grit and meanness. When one is already low in energy reserves, cold, wind, rain, all those "exposure" pieces are really tough on the body. Nothing like a rested athlete going hard for 15-30min.

http://gress.org/...ger/RangerSchool.htm
About 3/4 of the way thru, there is a section titled "Tim Parks, Ranger Buddy". That's a FL phase story.

'85-'88 I was on the college triathlon team in San Diego. We used to swim off of La Jolla Spring -> late Fall. Our temp limit was 63deg. We were all broke college kids, most of us didn't even own a wetsuit. 64-68 was entirely do-able. We'd wear double swim caps, those we could afford. Prior to jumping in the water, we'd go for a jog and do some calisthenics to both reduce the need for a swim warm up and also to elevate body temp. This was the Speedo era, so it was a little goofy by today's standards. Then we'd hit the water and immediately start swimming hard. Hitting the water was a shock at first, but it only took a couple seconds to get used to it.

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"If only he had used his genius for niceness, instead of Evil." M. Smart

Pretty much this.
Below 24c and i start to struggle, I'm around 61kg and pretty lean and vascular. Did a pool swim in 21.5c and was shivering after 2k, where other people love it, more so the heavier guys.

I melt in that kind of water. Anything over 80 is too hot.

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I swim in the ocean regularly and 19C is not cold especially if I'm swimming and not just wading in the water. Below 18C is difficult for me though hubby who has more insulation doesn't have any problems.

It's dependent on the person as everyone says. The initial dip is always a shock to the system but depends on how well and fast you can warm up and stay warm.

The "heated" pool I swim in is usually 20-22C, for me the ideal temp for lap swimming.

It's highly personal as many others have noted.
I'm pretty comfortable at 19 degrees but then I find typical pool temperatures unpleasantly warm.
There are a few members of my tri club who did an open water swim with me last weekend without their wetsuits in the Irish sea just south of Dublin. The water was around 14.5C I believe (58F). That's a bit cold for me but some people are fine with it as long as they don't stay in too long or hang about when not swimming. They did about 1500m last week. Heck some nutters swim wetsuitless when it's under 9C (48F) but I think they generally keep those swims very short - with the exception of some "ice swimmers" who swim a mile in water that's only barely above freezing. Of course that's an event that requires a doctor on standby to check swimmers as they warm-up afterwards (that's the most dangerous time as blood get's circulating again and core temperature can plummet).

For training I would recommend train prober sighting in the pool. There are some easy drills and techniques you can do basically everywhere.
On raceday It really depends for me. Everything longer than a sprint I would get a wetsuit for sure! For a sprint distance it depends on a lot of factors for me, air temperature, type of swim (is it in the sea, a lake, canal etc.), is there probably a small running portion or a second loop, how far is the transition area from the swim exit? All those factors have to be considered. Eg a local sprint distance with a 500m swim in a lake, which is 250m swim, 75m worth of running at the beach, followed by a second loop of swimming. The running portion you will be way faster without a wetsuit, and won't heat up that much. The way to the transition area is rather short with 200m of running, so there is not much time to prepare your wetsuit for changing while running. Also water temperature will most likely be around 20°C and Air around 25-30°C so quiet hot. In wetsuits i tend to heat up really fast, so for me the given example would be now wetsuit. The tight course and the running will save up, the 5 seconds I will lose as a good swimmer on that swim leg without a wetsuit. Most important for me is, if the wetsuit -> bike transition takes 3 seconds longer than planned, the front pack is gone and i have to make up lots of ground on the bike (draft legal tho). On the short distance it is just not worth the potential extra trouble you could get in.
For a long(er) training swim I would always choose a wetsuit! Even in outdoor pools I often use mine, as during this time of the saison my body gets too cold after 4k of swimming at normal pool temperatures, as I am at full race mode :D

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sent from my iPhone

I swam at a local beach today, 17°C air, 19°C water, very windy and choppy and with little rain. I didn't use a wetsuit and swam for an hour, and actually feel this is the perfect temperature and environment that I can swim for hours if I'm not tired.

I also swam at the same place yesterday afternoon, with 20°C air, 19°C water, windy and choppy as today but no rain, for around an hour. I met a local tri club doing their OW training, however there was a guy not having a wetsuit got hypothermia and had to be pulled.

A 14 year old zombie thread, love it!! And I bet half speed now has a new answer than he had back then, he swims in low 60's/ high50's just about every day now..

The one thing I didn't see mentioned, is that 66 in fresh water is nothing like 66 in the ocean, night and day difference. 66 in the ocean is pretty nice for most, 66 in a lake is not really nice for anyone, except a few polar bears...