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Fin man vs kip litton
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If you were outraged by the "fin man" and his escapades at one IM race, you would not believe what the letsrun crew has dug up on the soon to be infamous Kip Litton.

http://www.letsrun.com/...d=3863010&page=0

It's mind-boggling.


"Good genes are not a requirement, just the obsession to beat ones brains out daily"...the Griz
Last edited by: stringcheese: Jan 17, 11 7:59
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Re: Fin man vs kip litton [stringcheese] [ In reply to ]
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Re: Fin man vs kip litton [jackmott] [ In reply to ]
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They've actually created a separate blog outlining his alleged wrong doings..http://kiplitton.blogspot.com/

Basically, they've gone through about 20 different races and the course pictures to just skewer this guy regarding his splits and finish times.

He has also posted finish times on his "website" for races that never existed. He created the races and results..

There's too much to outline in one post..go through pages 45- 50 and you'll get a good picture of what's what.


"Good genes are not a requirement, just the obsession to beat ones brains out daily"...the Griz
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Re: Fin man vs kip litton [stringcheese] [ In reply to ]
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Re: Fin man vs kip litton [jackmott] [ In reply to ]
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Agreed; I tend to read these threads, posts, blogs, etc. with a great deal more fascination than most other threads.

I really do want to know WHAT is going on in their heads? It seems like there is some kind of major dysfunction in their brain, but what causes it? How do they justify it to themselves? Do they REALLY realize they are cheating, or do they genuinely, in their twisted minds, think that they are earning their "wins"?
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Re: Fin man vs kip litton [stringcheese] [ In reply to ]
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stringcheese wrote:
If you were outraged by the "fin man" and his escapades at one IM race, you would not believe what the letsrun crew has dug up on the soon to be infamous Kip Litton.

http://www.letsrun.com/...d=3863010&page=0

It's mind-boggling.

Someone is on the WAR PATH !!! I love it though. Look at this blog that chronicles the inconsitancies in the guys racing.

http://kiplitton.blogspot.com/

Dave


Dave Stark
dreamcatcher@astound.net
USAC & USAT level 2 certified coach
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Re: Fin man vs kip litton [stringcheese] [ In reply to ]
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what's the point? He surely can't be making enough off of cheating to live, so why go through the effort? I just don't get it.
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Re: Fin man vs kip litton [OakCliffTri] [ In reply to ]
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OakCliffTri wrote:
what's the point? He surely can't be making enough off of cheating to live, so why go through the effort? I just don't get it.

So that those amateurs who work hard and care about getting on the podium or winning their category are not stopped by the scum who would cheat to take their spot.

so that truth and justice may win over villainy.

what could matter MORE?



Kat Hunter reports on the San Dimas Stage Race from inside the GC winning team
Aeroweenie.com -Compendium of Aero Data and Knowledge
Freelance sports & outdoors writer Kathryn Hunter
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Re: Fin man vs kip litton [stringcheese] [ In reply to ]
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holy crap that is entertaining.

Check out this Clif's Notes version if you don't want to read the whole thing:
http://pwprunning.blogspot.com/...g-of-kip-litton.html


If you do want to read more of it, come back to this early link at some point. Start from the bottom and play a little "where's Waldo" to find him. Then work backward through the pictures to see what he has been up to. Amazing.

http://www.backprint.com/...CAT=216483&SUB=0
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Re: Fin man vs kip litton [karma] [ In reply to ]
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Who knows what his personal issues are. They are too dark and deep for me.

I'm just amazed at the level of sleuthing that has gone on to out this guy.

If you go through some of the posts, you'll see that, among other things, folks were going through race lost and found pictures from some of the events he's done to find the guy on the course.


"Good genes are not a requirement, just the obsession to beat ones brains out daily"...the Griz
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Re: Fin man vs kip litton [jackmott] [ In reply to ]
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jackmott wrote:
OakCliffTri wrote:
what's the point? He surely can't be making enough off of cheating to live, so why go through the effort? I just don't get it.


So that those amateurs who work hard and care about getting on the podium or winning their category are not stopped by the scum who would cheat to take their spot.

so that truth and justice may win over villainy.

what could matter MORE?


No, I meant why would this assclown cheat in the races? I totally get outting him. I would hang him up too if he kept me from claiming my deserved spot on the podium. I'm impressed with the sleuthing, would like to believe I would do the same to someone that consistently cheated the system. I just don't get why someone would put this much effort into cheating in races that likely pay very little in the grand-scheme of things. He has to have serious internal issues to "justify" his means.
Last edited by: OakCliffTri: Jan 17, 11 12:31
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Re: Fin man vs kip litton [stringcheese] [ In reply to ]
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5 dq's is impressive. Hard to imagine why a cheater would also want to cheat in a relay.

However, I don't understand why the difference in gun time and chip time is a big deal. If it was a big race, and you started mid or back of the pack, 4-5 minutes difference is common. Of course, if you are running a sub 3 hr marathon, why would you want to start 4-5 minutes back? Anyway, am I missing something?
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Re: Fin man vs kip litton [OakCliffTri] [ In reply to ]
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ohhh, well this guy may have been trying to profit from it. Something about him running for charity but the checks being made out to his website, not the charity.



Kat Hunter reports on the San Dimas Stage Race from inside the GC winning team
Aeroweenie.com -Compendium of Aero Data and Knowledge
Freelance sports & outdoors writer Kathryn Hunter
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Re: Fin man vs kip litton [schroeder] [ In reply to ]
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The races with the large gaps would put him behind the vast majority of the BOP'ers and walkers so to run his blistering time he would have to literally plow through walls of people. I have enough trouble getting around people running 30sec/mile slower than me
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Re: Fin man vs kip litton [OakCliffTri] [ In reply to ]
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OakCliffTri wrote:
what's the point? He surely can't be making enough off of cheating to live, so why go through the effort? I just don't get it.

Allegedly he was doing this all for charity and running a non-profit campaign and people were paying money directly to him which may or may not of ever been turned over to the charities? His personal website has been taken down, I think it was worldrecordrun.com

-----------------------------------------
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Re: Fin man vs kip litton [schroeder] [ In reply to ]
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From what I was reading on letsrun, the time gap between chip and gun is indicative of how he pulls this off. The theory is that he is at the start line, with bib/chip hidden, in fairly normal clothes, so that he looks like a spectator. 4-5 minutes after the gun goes off and the crowds are thinned out, he strolls across the line to register his start and then hops back off the road. Then, he presumably takes a car/bike/bus/train to the finish or the next checkpoint, if the race has multiple timing points. He either repeats this process for a checkpoint, or he strips down and then runs across the finish line.

Also entertaining are the pictures of him starting/crossing the line in one outfit, and finishing the same race in another outfit, with different shoes.
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Re: Fin man vs kip litton [stringcheese] [ In reply to ]
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Ouch. Looks like criminal behavior here, if things are what they appear.



_______________________________________________
you know my name, look up my number
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Re: Fin man vs kip litton [schroeder] [ In reply to ]
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And this clown is a dentist. Makes you wonder what kind of practice he runs.

schroeder wrote:
However, I don't understand why the difference in gun time and chip time is a big deal. If it was a big race, and you started mid or back of the pack, 4-5 minutes difference is common. Of course, if you are running a sub 3 hr marathon, why would you want to start 4-5 minutes back? Anyway, am I missing something?
If he starts in the BOP, he has to pass all those people to finish high in the results. Participants are all saying he never passed them.
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Re: Fin man vs kip litton [Azr43l] [ In reply to ]
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So how many of you people actually remember those who pass you? I'm fairly certain I couldn't remember anyone who had passed me unless they had a really great ass.

*I'm not defending his actions, I'm just curious*

______________________________________________
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Re: Fin man vs kip litton [rpeterson] [ In reply to ]
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So how many of you people actually remember those who pass you? I'm fairly certain I couldn't remember anyone who had passed me unless they had a really great ass

I think if he was finishing mid-pack you would be right but he is 'placing' in the top 5-10. I think the runners at that level are a lot more aware of who is around them (not to mention they are more spread out at the sharp end).
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Re: Fin man vs kip litton [stringcheese] [ In reply to ]
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Those letsrun folks are tough. Finman had it pretty easy here on ST in comparison. I don't believe anyone went to Finman's old races (the ones with the mysterious missing chip splits) and reconstructed the lies via photographic forensics.



_______________________________________________
you know my name, look up my number
_______________________________________________
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Re: Fin man vs kip litton [rpeterson] [ In reply to ]
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rpeterson wrote:
So how many of you people actually remember those who pass you? I'm fairly certain I couldn't remember anyone who had passed me unless they had a really great ass.

*I'm not defending his actions, I'm just curious*

I finished 10th in my last race and I can tell you every person that passed me and where they passed me. I can also tell you who I passed and where. As the previous poster said when you are at the front of the race you know the people around you. Maybe you don't know their name but you would recognize them.
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Re: Fin man vs kip litton [trimick] [ In reply to ]
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Man, my worst finish this season was 18th OA, I need to pay better attention to what's going on.

______________________________________________
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Re: Fin man vs kip litton [stringcheese] [ In reply to ]
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WOW!!!!

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Official Polar Ambassador
http://www.google.com/...P7RiWyEVwpunlsc2JtQQ
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Re: Fin man vs kip litton [stringcheese] [ In reply to ]
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This is the best thing I've read in a month. You have really made my day. This guy is sick! He makes finman look like a hack.
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Re: Fin man vs kip litton [stringcheese] [ In reply to ]
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No excuse whatsoever to make this right in my mind.
Makes me wonder though...

1) Impressive "body" of work/races. Imagine if he put that travel and entry money to better use...like a coach to help him run better!
2)No running buddies to speak up for him?
3) What the heck kind of dentist is he and what kind of business ethics must he have? I'd bet the local, and National, ADA groups would be interested in this kind of behavior.
4) He's lived the lie so long he probably believes he's a good runner
5) Why wouldn't he feel like crap during his "event" to do the right thing?
6) Does he put up a fight when Dq'd?
7) Does "Mrs Litton" know about this? Or maybe that's part of the whole thing "hey honey, I just broke 3 hours in Boston!"
8) Has anyone followed him from start to finish?(Maybe I better read the whole blogspot)
9) does he have a bumper sticker on his car that reads "marathoner 15.3"
10) If he knows the guys we've dq'd a few times around here for shortcutting races.
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Re: Fin man vs kip litton [thenicetwin] [ In reply to ]
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Well, it said he was monitored by cyclists in a half mary and he ran a 1:28 so it seems he's a competitive runner, especially for his age. That makes the obvious cheating that much harder to justify or understand. I agree the "outing" is fascinating. Gotta love the Internet!


Herston Roskind, PLC
Herston on Tennessee Family Law
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Re: Fin man vs kip litton [thenicetwin] [ In reply to ]
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1) Impressive "body" of work/races. Imagine if he put that travel and entry money to better use...like a coach to help him run better!

He'd probably lie to his coach about his training.

2)No running buddies to speak up for him?

Would you speak up for him at this point?

3) What the heck kind of dentist is he and what kind of business ethics must he have? I'd bet the local, and National, ADA groups would be interested in this kind of behavior.

If his charity was fake, then lots of other people (including some prosecutors) might be interested as well.

4) He's lived the lie so long he probably believes he's a good runner

Probably. Apparently he might have run a legit 1:30 half marathon. If so then he is somewhat decent, which makes the whole thing even more pathetic.

5) Why wouldn't he feel like crap during his "event" to do the right thing?

Lord only knows. Why are there axe murderers? (No, I'm not equating the two.)

6) Does he put up a fight when Dq'd?

Apparently not. It seems that he backs down whenever he is confronted, albeit without an admission of cheating.

7) Does "Mrs Litton" know about this? Or maybe that's part of the whole thing "hey honey, I just broke 3 hours in Boston!"

I'd bet on the latter.

8) Has anyone followed him from start to finish?(Maybe I better read the whole blogspot)

Apparently once, yes. See #4.

9) does he have a bumper sticker on his car that reads "marathoner 15.3"

Lol. It looks like many of his 'races' are the full distance or even more, but they are more like "run-bike-run-drive-run-drive-run-bike-run". So at heart he's a multi-sport kind of guy.

10) If he knows the guys we've dq'd a few times around here for shortcutting races.

I think they mostly work alone.


----
Michael
Last edited by: Experior: Jan 17, 11 19:34
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Re: Fin man vs kip litton [stringcheese] [ In reply to ]
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Is the dude posting in that thread? or regular letsrun poster? That is too much to read :)
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Re: Fin man vs kip litton [schroeder] [ In reply to ]
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schroeder wrote:
However, I don't understand why the difference in gun time and chip time is a big deal. If it was a big race, and you started mid or back of the pack, 4-5 minutes difference is common. Of course, if you are running a sub 3 hr marathon, why would you want to start 4-5 minutes back? Anyway, am I missing something?

Not sure if this has been answered, but USATF rules for placings in AG or Masters says that times are by gun time only. Chip times are not supposed to count. Mom and Pops backyard 5k might allow it, but its generally not. I could be wrong, but I believe this is accurate.


------------------------------------------------------------
"Triathlon is for people who can't handle drugs and alcohol." -IMFL t-shirt

The Dude Abides...
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Re: Fin man vs kip litton [Raul] [ In reply to ]
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Raul wrote:
schroeder wrote:

However, I don't understand why the difference in gun time and chip time is a big deal. If it was a big race, and you started mid or back of the pack, 4-5 minutes difference is common. Of course, if you are running a sub 3 hr marathon, why would you want to start 4-5 minutes back? Anyway, am I missing something?


Not sure if this has been answered, but USATF rules for placings in AG or Masters says that times are by gun time only. Chip times are not supposed to count. Mom and Pops backyard 5k might allow it, but its generally not. I could be wrong, but I believe this is accurate.

USATF rules say that monetary awards and overall placement has to be by gun time. Everything else (including AG placement) is up to the RD, and often is done by chip time to avoid a clusterf&^*ck at the start line.


----
Michael
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Re: Fin man vs kip litton [schroeder] [ In reply to ]
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schroeder wrote:

However, I don't understand why the difference in gun time and chip time is a big deal. If it was a big race, and you started mid or back of the pack, 4-5 minutes difference is common. Of course, if you are running a sub 3 hr marathon, why would you want to start 4-5 minutes back? Anyway, am I missing something?

The mere fact that there is a large difference doesn't, by itself, speak to whether he cheated -- starting at the back is a legitimate starting 'strategy' (though a silly one if you are going to run fast). It is, however, apparently relevant. One current working theory, supported by photographic evidence, is that he hangs out in 'civilian' clothes and surreptitiously saunters across the timing mats. That would be easy to do at the back. And even in races where he apparently does actually run at the beginning (cutting the course elsewhere), he wouldn't want to be at the front because the front-runners would notice him magically appearing and disappearing throughout the race.


----
Michael
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Re: Fin man vs kip litton [stringcheese] [ In reply to ]
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Making up (and winning) a non-existent race is certainly a novel approach.
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Re: Fin man vs kip litton [Rambler] [ In reply to ]
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I would rather make up a race and come in like 8th or something, that would be cool. There was a young man on this site that got outted a bit last season for pulling shenanigans. Not sure if he's still around or not.
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Re: Fin man vs kip litton [jeffab] [ In reply to ]
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The young man you're referring to is now a "Mentor" on the Beginner Triathlete Forum. This kind of stuff is both fascinating and disturbing to me.

What I do: http://app.strava.com/athletes/345699
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Re: Fin man vs kip litton [Printer86] [ In reply to ]
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Printer86 wrote:
The young man you're referring to is now a "Mentor" on the Beginner Triathlete Forum. This kind of stuff is both fascinating and disturbing to me.

Yeah, I don't understand it but it is fascinating and sickening at the same time. The sad thing for him is he's a pretty good athlete. It's not like he's some BOP schlub.
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Re: Fin man vs kip litton [smugfit] [ In reply to ]
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how was he able to pull this off for so long?
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Re: Fin man vs kip litton [handsomenate] [ In reply to ]
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handsomenate wrote:
how was he able to pull this off for so long?

because people are morons that give way too much benefit of the doubt.



Kat Hunter reports on the San Dimas Stage Race from inside the GC winning team
Aeroweenie.com -Compendium of Aero Data and Knowledge
Freelance sports & outdoors writer Kathryn Hunter
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Re: Fin man vs kip litton [jackmott] [ In reply to ]
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jackmott wrote:
handsomenate wrote:
how was he able to pull this off for so long?


because people are morons that give way too much benefit of the doubt.


yeah i guess....i wonder if he will be able to cheat now???
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Re: Fin man vs kip litton [jeffab] [ In reply to ]
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newbz still posts here, no? I don't think he was banned, just outed.

Eganski tweets
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Re: Fin man vs kip litton [eganski] [ In reply to ]
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It amazes me how many people use endurance sports purely for attention and what they are willing to do to get that attention. I guess we all do, but it just shows you the lengths people will go through to get noticed.
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Re: Fin man vs kip litton [eganski] [ In reply to ]
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eganski wrote:
newbz still posts here, no? I don't think he was banned, just outed.

I don't think he got banned just outted and voluntarily stopped posting.
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Re: Fin man vs kip litton [handsomenate] [ In reply to ]
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handsomenate wrote:
how was he able to pull this off for so long?

He wasn't. He was DQ'd from some races along the way. Then people began to realize a pattern of cheating. (That was harder than it might have been because he sometimes races under a fake name.) Then after several 'false starts' (sorry, couldn't help myself there) on Letsrun (where threads outing him got pulled, not for bad reasons necessarily), a thread was allowed to continue, and people more or less behaved themselves, and with that thread acting essentially as one central 'clearing house' of information, many many dots were connected.

What has come out of that thread is not that he cheated in previous races -- this was known in at least some cases -- but the unbelievable extent of the cheating, and that all of it was being done by one person.


----
Michael
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Re: Fin man vs kip litton [ In reply to ]
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Who has a DSM to look this up?

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Fortitudine Vincimus
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Re: Fin man vs kip litton [stringcheese] [ In reply to ]
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Apparently our man Kip has done some duathlons in his past. Obviously all past race results are suspect based on the present state of shenanigans.



_______________________________________________
you know my name, look up my number
_______________________________________________
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Re: Fin man vs kip litton [jeffab] [ In reply to ]
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i think he's(newbz) posted in the LR lately, about photography i think.
letsrun has been killing kip litton for a few months. there were so many threads that the site(the rojo brothers, i think) made one, and one only, thread on him.
some of those guys have spent a lot of time on litton. it's been great to see their build up of facts.



---------------------------------------
Fruit snacks are for winners
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Re: Fin man vs kip litton [Rambler] [ In reply to ]
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Which is why I've raced and won Ironman Denver, Ironman Alaska and Ironman Wyoming!

Never thought about charging people for making it up though...

***
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Re: Fin man vs kip litton [Skibum232] [ In reply to ]
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I'm going to start my own timing service then I can give myself a better time. I'm also going to be RD and create a Master's Clydesdale Over 6'3" Division to give myself a fighting chance.
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Re: Fin man vs kip litton [stringcheese] [ In reply to ]
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"Running sucks, just Kip it baby." - Saw this quote over on Let's Run and thought it was funny as hell. Report is that Litton is racing the Cowtown marathon this weekend. Everybody is going to have their eye on him, if ya know what I mean. =)


Jonathan
USA Triathlon Coach/Adventure Extraordinaire
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Re: Fin man vs kip litton [JohnnyEndurance] [ In reply to ]
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Any updated on Kip Litton? Has he been outed yet?

___________
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Re: Fin man vs kip litton [shackmantri] [ In reply to ]
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Outed? I can't say I've looked at his results since the letsrun crucifixion but I'd have to imagine his family won't even talk to him at this point.

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Re: Fin man vs kip litton [JohnnyEndurance] [ In reply to ]
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"Running sucks, just Kip it baby."


That is actually a guys nickname on the letsrun forums. I LMAO too when I saw that.



----------------------
TriAnotherDay.com
Last edited by: VanDrunken: Mar 30, 11 8:16
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Re: Fin man vs kip litton [justinl] [ In reply to ]
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He keeps running and not getting caught.

___________
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Re: Fin man vs kip litton [jeffab] [ In reply to ]
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jeffab wrote:
eganski wrote:
newbz still posts here, no? I don't think he was banned, just outed.


I don't think he got banned just outted and voluntarily stopped posting.

He stopped posting for a while on beginnertri as well, then gradually started posting again. He still posts there occasionally, they have a shorter memory collectively than we do.

John



Top notch coaching: Francois and Accelerate3 | Follow on Twitter: LifetimeAthlete |
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Re: Fin man vs kip litton [stringcheese] [ In reply to ]
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Anyone remember Chandra Bozelka? (forget exactly what the last name was) from about 10 years ago. Similar situation. After having run many marathons around 5 hours or so, all of sudden she started running times around 3 hours at a bunch of marathons. But she somehow never seemed to hit any of the intermediate timing mats. Or when she did she was running like an hour negative every time. And she would always call attention to herself as well by carrying signs across the finish line. And pics of her showed, how shall I say politely, that she was not a diminutive girl. Eventually people caught on and she was DQíd from several marathons and her name removed from the results after the fact. She did show up on a couple of message boards at the time and still defended herself despite all the obvious evidence.

Itís really amazing how many people do this stuff. Maybe not repetitively like Kip and Chandra, but at least on occasion. Iíve run the Philly marathon 6 times. The second half of the race is an out and back from about the start/finish area. They always used to have a timing mat at the far turnaround at about 20 miles. (for some reason I donít think they have had one the last couple of years Iíve done it) But every year I would check the results for people who missed the 20 mile mat. Then Iíd go look at their halfway and finish splits. Most all of them ran ridiculous splits like 2:10 for the first half and 1:00 for the second. There were many who actually broke the half-marathon world record for the second half of their marathon! Wow. Very impressive. And I would go back and check the finish pics to make sure that they didnít just drop out and accidentally cross the line. Sure enough most every one of them was running across the finish, arms raised in the air in glory. And just coincidentally, a good portion of them happened to finish within a minute or so under their BQ time. Imagine that.
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Re: Fin man vs kip litton [Devlin] [ In reply to ]
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Devlin wrote:
jeffab wrote:
eganski wrote:
newbz still posts here, no? I don't think he was banned, just outed.


I don't think he got banned just outted and voluntarily stopped posting.


He stopped posting for a while on beginnertri as well, then gradually started posting again. He still posts there occasionally, they have a shorter memory collectively than we do.

John
He's now doing duathlons. Good news for his competition that such a great swimmer is out of the game!
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Re: Fin man vs kip litton [Devlin] [ In reply to ]
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Devlin wrote:
jeffab wrote:
eganski wrote:
newbz still posts here, no? I don't think he was banned, just outed.


I don't think he got banned just outted and voluntarily stopped posting.


He stopped posting for a while on beginnertri as well, then gradually started posting again. He still posts there occasionally, they have a shorter memory collectively than we do.

John

Those of us who tried to remember were instructed to forget if we wanted to continue to participate. I'm interested in race results this spring.
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Re: Fin man vs kip litton [skid777] [ In reply to ]
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I think it probably happens more than we realize. Right after I read this thread when it was fresh I looked at some of my results results from several years ago. It was a non-MDot irondistance and I was trying to see my own splits and happened to notice someone I knew who was in the same race. It was a four lap out and back course with no mat at the far end. The splits were like 1:05, 1:00, :55, :45 and the time was about 20 minutes faster than any stand alone marathon time I could find after they rode over 7 hours.

I had never really looked before but I remembered thinking at the time about how fast they were closing on me. I now think they were cutting a little bit more off each lap.

We are so fucked.
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Re: Fin man vs kip litton [JoshKaptur] [ In reply to ]
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JoshKaptur wrote:
Devlin wrote:
jeffab wrote:
eganski wrote:
newbz still posts here, no? I don't think he was banned, just outed.


I don't think he got banned just outted and voluntarily stopped posting.


He stopped posting for a while on beginnertri as well, then gradually started posting again. He still posts there occasionally, they have a shorter memory collectively than we do.

John


Those of us who tried to remember were instructed to forget if we wanted to continue to participate. I'm interested in race results this spring.

Yeah, that doesn't surprise me. The touchy feely everything is wonderful and rosy attitude is why I rarely post there anymore. And god forbid you say anything against TinT over there...

John



Top notch coaching: Francois and Accelerate3 | Follow on Twitter: LifetimeAthlete |
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Re: Fin man vs kip litton [jackmott] [ In reply to ]
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jackmott wrote:
personalities like this fascinate me

are they psychopaths? something else?

Worse yet. Are they stalkers for caring????!??!?!?! Now that's crazy.
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Re: Fin man vs kip litton [Quantum] [ In reply to ]
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Athlinks says that Newbz won a 10k race in Phili this month. Wow!

What I do: http://app.strava.com/athletes/345699
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Re: Fin man vs kip litton [stringcheese] [ In reply to ]
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stringcheese wrote:
If you were outraged by the "fin man" and his escapades at one IM race, you would not believe what the letsrun crew has dug up on the soon to be infamous Kip Litton.

http://www.letsrun.com/...d=3863010&page=0

It's mind-boggling.

It's back...

http://www.newyorker.com/...nger?currentPage=all
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